Vul’Umlomo: Conversations on Culture | Culture & Finance | Episode 2
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- čas přidán 19. 06. 2024
- Culture sometimes has practices that lead to financial consequences, but we are not always clear on why or how they came about.
In the second instalment of the Viceroy #Vulumlomo: Conversations on Culture, Robert Marawa chats to our panel, Mbuso Khoza, Dr Bishop Jessica Mbangeni, Ms Thabile Noxolo Buthelezi and Mr Siyabonga Mkhize as they discuss ‘black tax’, lobola and spirituality in modern day South Africa and how they are influenced by money.
Enjoy Responsibly. Not For Persons Under the Age of 18.
#CharacterShapedbyGenerations @aware
"We are not here to blame white people, we are here to solve our own problems." The start we need!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!❤
Mbuso Khoza is very eloquent in his address
Too much 🔥
Great conversation Viceroy. Can we please have 2 hour slots for these conversations because 30 minutes is too little. The panelists cannot deep dive into such important topics.
Thank you though for engaging with us via Social Media and for teaching us new things.
Hi Ayanda, thank you for your feedback🙏. We will definitely look into extending the duration of an episode🙂. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
The 11 cows madness was a colonial mean to distabilize the society. Sir Theophilius Shepstone is the one who came up with that in Zululand, thus we gradually had more people not getting married and single-parent headed homes.
I agree with Thabile about having a learned book/journal about specifics of ilobola. Unfortunately there are individuals & families who misuse traditional practices for their personal gain.
Hi Lebo, thank you for your response. We agree, these conversations are so important as they serve as reminders to why certain cultural practices still exist. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
What is Black Tax?
By Penuel Mlotshwa
05 August 2019
A lot of people complain about Black Tax and I've come to realize that they may not fully understand what it means or how it works.
Let's start by defining tax. Tax is a forced payment by government, so that the money collected can fund public infrastructure and other spaces, for the benefit of the masses.
Roads, clinics, hospitals, houses, schools, the police, trains, busses, etc. and all the people employed to work at these institutions or build & maintain the infrastructure.
Almost all South Africans pay tax in one form or another. The 3 top taxes are Personal Income Tax, Company Income Tax and Value-added Tax (VAT).
So then what is Black Tax?
Black Tax is an additional Personal Income Tax that black people pay, not to government, but to their own families or friends. It entails sending money home for schooling, healthcare, food and other goods. In decent instances, it covers costs that your Personal Income Tax is meant to cover for your family already, it therefore becomes an additional and unmeasured tax.
But why Black?
Because of South African history. White people, through the law and violence, oppressed and exploited black people, took their resources, relegated them to townships and used them as cheap labour to build up the current wealth and privileges they enjoy today.
Amongst those privileges, is the lack of Black Tax. Their families and friends tend to not need money sent home, because over-and-above public benefits from government, they also have their own money, to not only cover where government falls short, but to enjoy exclusive private and luxury services like healthcare, schooling, security, flights, etc.
When black parents send their kids to expensive schools, give them exclusive and luxury opportunities, the money the child sends home becomes arguably a return on investment instead of Black Tax, yet people are divided on this point.
I hope this offers more clarity on Black Tax and what it is. It's meant to be a good thing. The problem is that in SA, it tends to cover for government's shortcomings, due to corruption and maladministration. Like normal tax, it feels forced and like normal tax, it annoys those that have to pay it. And sadly, some families misuse the money sent to them, and don't invest it in building up the family, but - like corrupt politicians - they spend it on junk.
Black Tax.
This really unpacks it however we still cannot ignore that there definitely seems to be a pervasive attitude of entitlement amongst black parents. People who complain about black tax complain because parents demand a "soft life" sponsored by their children. The basics could very well be taken care off at home buto you still find your parents wanting a car from you or buying them a new sofa set, revamping rooms for no good reason other than aesthetics etc. Those who see the money being used wisely hardly complain however it's when the money you send home is plundered and used for frivolous consumption that we young people find ourselves upset.
Ngyabonga baba uMbuso ngephuzulu olenze ekugcineni, Syabonga Mkhize thokoza mkhulu🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌.
Siyabonga, "how do I make you live a soft life if you are going to die and my children won't have land." He might call isbaya but guys this is pure generational wealth. Siyabonga gets it!!!!!! We need to fight for our children not to have "black tax" and have willing gratitude.
Regarding the BT convo, most times you don't have to be "successful" to qualify for it according to the family, you just have to be earning more than them. And that is where young adults are overwhelmed to points of depression especially in a society that promotes material gains as a form of growth. You are from Ventersdorp, earning R5k at your firm/company and you stay in central Joburg. Already the mindset has shifted within your community (not just your home) that you are living your best life in JOZI!
Eye opening conversation I have learnt a lot, however I feel like 30 minutes is not enough to unpack everything I was left wanting more😩😂❤️
Wow ayi vezwe kumabonakude lenkulumo ngxoxo. Futhi ngesikhathi sezindaba abazali behlezi phambi kuka mabona kude. Bazimoshile izimpilo zethu.
Hi Thando, thank you for tuning in. We pass on your suggestion to the rest of the Viceroy SA team. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
Azibuyele emasisweni🤞🏾 Grateful for these conversations especially for us who have been brought up in the modern times, it’s great to unlearn & relearn✨
Angusiyena umuntu ophuza iVice Roy, kodwa sengizo qala ngiyithenge ngiyiphuze, ngithanda lenxoxo, cela niqhubeke neza thought provoking content
we deserve an episode every day, what a learning experience we bakithi!!!
Hi Nothando, thank you for tuning in🙏. We will definitely look into increasing the number of episodes. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
We really need to write our own books explaining our own things, in their different levels and spheres. This is no longer for us but for the generation that is to follow, for them not to be as lost. Beautiful conversation!
I agree
Hi Jabu, we completely agree. It's so important to impart the knowledge we have with those that are to come. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
i agree and support this
The conversation was amazing.i even got very emotional about this Topic because i got married to a western man and their side of the family were interested to know more about our culture and tradition but it was limited nothing is written down 🤷we don"t have books that proves
Wow!!! We need to document our culture in more depth. EVERYTHING! This panel is rich with information and knowledge
Dear Viceroy, Thank You.
This is interesting, the divorce part. My parents had a huge discussion about this when mamma wanted out. I love that question "what if love is no longer there" - we need to be open to the fact that our lives aren't what the lives of our grandparents etc were. Women should not bekezela for the sake of 11 cows.
Hi Manjo, I think what they failed to say is that even though divorce is not there, but a woman you were allowed to go home but your father will give you your own piece in his land for you to stay there since wakhishwa khona.
Hi Theodorah, we completely agree. Communication is an important aspect that should be had between the two families when disparities occur. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
@@siyabongazamisa2303 Oh I see, makes sense.
Especially in a country where so many women get killed if they stay.
Am a young parent, this is helpful
Thanks #Vulumlomo
Quality chat, quality panel. 🙏🏽
Hi Tokoloho, thank you for the lovely feedback🙏. We're glad to learn that you enjoyed the conversation🙂. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
What an amazing series, absolutely love and appriciate the conversations. I'm lerning so much.
Theres so much that should have been said in all these topics. OMG. More time please. Khabazela, Dr Bishop, Thabile and Mkhathini had so much to offer on all these topics..!
Hi Nondumiso, thank you for tuning in. We will definitely consider your recommendation for future episodes. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
Beautiful conversation ❤ 👌 can it be longer!
We also need to discuss why people choose to marry in the first place. Here you talk about love, but you'd be so surprised how security, escapism and social pressure are the main reason why people are getting married. Because this are leading intentions for people choosing to marry and not love as a factor, the commitment will always be distorted.
Greetings elders in the circle. Ngithanda ukubonga kakhulu with this program on the main stream because I live a life were this is my life style and part of network with many but not enough afrikans to drive this home to the right people. So, thank you.
My comment is on the matter of medicine which is taken from mother nature, and I know we say us because many of us are still connected with mother nature but then that knowledge or path has been shut legally through IPs and shunned through cultural assassinations and demonization of our way of life through religion, that is, churches and the unfavorable social engineering designed by colonisation and it's many upgrades and modernisation, call it reforms or democracy. All these systems are against native progress.
So, before we even blame ourselves or our own people, understand why they behave like that and who do you know within the family who holds similar beliefs because of our social engineering. Once we have indentified the problems, it becomes easier to resolve and mitigate future attacks.
Very insightful and eye-opening.
Ngibingelele...aiy Madluphuthu imile ibe yiHora ishow...
Sawubona Siyabonga, thank you for your feedback🙏. We will look into increasing the duration of the episode. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
Honestly you guys danced around topics here. Aside from the spirituality part nothing else was concluded
Just came pass this... Wow... A much needed conversation.
Damn my mouth is full "food for thought"
Love it!
Brilliant conversation I'm learning a lot ....
That Entitlement is the reason people complain about Black Tax
Brilliant! Enjoyed this immensely! 👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾My wise peers though... I do wish they would not point their fingers at thier elders 😂
The panel🙌🙌🙌thanks viceroy
The biggest problem with traditional African customs, or any other old traditional customs (whether or Celtics or Tengris or whatever Corner of the earth you draw from) for that matter, is that they were practiced by people in close knit communities thus making them easy to practice. The modern world we encounter different cultures constantly and have more cultural clashes than before. That's why we've created these "neutral" cultures like office culture
Very interesting 🧐
Thoroughly enjoyed this... Looking forward to learning more.
Our Fellow Poet In the Building ❤️
Definitely need more of these conversations👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
This was amazing. So happy it is back. I hope they continue these conversations and bring a psychologist who can dissect and educate on what mental health is and how it is for Africans. There has to be a focus in Africa for African people. African psychology has to be prioritised. And Africans need to write and educate about it. This was great!
Hi Sithuthukile, we appreciate your feedback🙏. Please do keep an eye out for our next episode. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
Interesting conversation. I wish there was more time to discuss and dissect the spirituality part of the conversation.
I love every bit of this. So insightful
I agree with Thabile !!!
What an interesting talk show, keep it up !
Hi Mwelase, thank you for your feedback🙌.
This is interesting. Can we have polygamy topic?
Hello👋, thank you for your suggestion. We will send your request to our marketing team. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
Can we have topic of husbands and wives working in a home coporate work or however and both contribute financially..that if its so who then should carry the duties of the home or int he house.i would really like to hear this one in debt
Loving this breakdown
Hi Phila, thank you for your feedback🙏. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
These are topics that definitely need attention. Beautiful!
Hi Michele, thank you for tuning in🙏. We're happy to hear that you enjoyed the conversation. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
Powerful discussion.
🙏 #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
Regarding black tax i feel like when abantu abadala lived with children that weren't theirs hlampe when u dade wabo eseganile washiya ingane they feel like cuz I brought you up u must...especially of they can see ukhuti ingane iphiwe or will be successful abanye baya taxwa kuze kufe lomuntu owaba khulisa
Once athethe iEnglish and bombastic words uveske angavakali kanti isxhosa sakhe simnandi.
Notification gang📍❤
I'm glad they are clearing up a lot of misconceptions that we have
🙏 #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
This was a very interesting topic that clarified some of the misunderstandings about lobola. I hope this is the beginning of the whole partation of the African cultural activity that seem to be falling off as the trend these days is to enter into partnership rather than do the right thing.
Hi Olga, thank you for your response. These are the necessary conversations that should be had to educate on cultural practices that exist, we're happy to hear that you found this episode insightful. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
21:24 in shona culture they do have what they call gupuro , its a form of lobola in reverse , the other issue is , only husbands are allowed to pay that
this show is incomplete, why would you give us 30 minutes show on youtube instead of 2 hours. every topic that was touched was left hanging.... WHY?
Absolutely beautiful but very short.. what a mind blowing/opening session.. very very short.. we need more. I definitely understood this panel of episode 2 way better than of episode 1, all 4 of the speakers compliment each other very well..
Can we have more please.. we in the process of unlearning, so this is an opportunity to learn that which will assist in raising our children with better knowledge of us as Africans.. !!
I'm so happy that for a change politics and government is not on the agenda..
🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
Hi Terresa, thank you for tuning in🙏. We are excited to hear that you thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
Depth ❤
Gratitude should be gratitude. Entitlement of any kind is mind damaging. People leave their jobs because they feel that its useless to work as their salary is expected to feed the family as a result it doesn't feel like willing gratitude but an obligation.
The conversation I’d always wanna get into.. so many things I wanna understand ❤️
Hi Micah, we're happy to hear that you found this to be an insightful conversation🙏. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
We should have more of this discussions regarding our cultures and mental health
Most definitely
I enjoyed these topics so much
Hi Ndimlo, thank you for your feedback🙂. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
Thank you so much for the teachings.
There one question I need to ask though, I know it'll be a different topic but how does one go about marrying the same gender as you are? How do we then bring in the ilobolo part there?
Thank you.
What an interesting and informative conversation on traditions. Really enjoyes, would love qa longer segment, maybe a live conco where we as viewers can post our questions as well?
Hi Gemaine, thank you for tuning in🙌 happy to hear that you enjoyed. We will work on providing longer episodes. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
Interesting.
Hi Lucky, thank you for tuning in🙏. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
🖤
❤️
These discussions are very interesting yazi.
Hi Man, we appreciate you tuning in👌. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
It's sad because as a women your told to hey there is no divorce but what happens kuwena as a women if you have been divorced by your husband remarries.
A very interesting topic
Hi Football, thank you for your feedback🤝. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
I don't believe in black tax I love taking care of my family. What i have is from God and my ancestors for the good of my family
This in incomplete, a lot of what was covered was not gotten into in depth. Please consider extending the time. Akuyona into yokuthi ikhiwe phezulu le
Hi Syondla, thank you for your feedback🙏. We will definitely look into extending the conversation. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
Thank you, I am impatiently waiting for the next episode
Ama live soft life...😅😅😅😅
Makhosi 🔥
People will tell you about marrying a good husband or wife, same people criticize a person for looking after their parents and siblings, they call it black tax 😄
I ain’t talking about the demands that people place, but a simple “care” from your heart.
We completely agree with you Micah, it should rather be seen as an act of taking care of your loved ones until they are independent. #Vulumlomo #CharacterShapedByGenerations
Kusakude phambili 😂 listening to this so called therapist
According to tradionalist who know our history, there were no 11 cows lobola especially for AmaZulu.It was the coloniser or partheid governers who prescribed those 11 works.
I meant 11 cows.
Why the alcohol?
Can I please have numbers for the Dr she is beautiful 😍😘
Too much was said.
decolonizing African philosophy🤍
Yabheda losis ayikho into ekuthiwa Iblack tax
You can't use a colonial language to try and explain iLobolo. That's why you fall into the trap of using economic terms such as charging, paying, bride price, etc. I Lobolo is a process of building the relationship between the two families and preparing the two as they are being set up for success. Language is a transmitter of culture, let us not forget that. That's why Theophelus Shepstone manipulated our culture by using a language that did not have the capacity to carry it. Today we are confused.
Uma kulobolwa kwakubalwa ngisho amantshe hhayi lento yokwenza kubenzima ukugana nokuganwa
Esani isingisi
No! Zondi don’t do that… There’s viewers emakhaya who don’t know isiZulu or IsiXhosa…
To accomodate every African child. Zulus or whatever language you want is not the only tribe to learn from these conversations.
This was really dope