That's because it's a gun now. It doesn't fire a stream like it used to, it's firing bullets which look like bad flame decals... which is how they got it to bounce.
They made a huge mistake trying to nerf it. The original animation, effect, and range of the flames was perfect. Even BETTER than most games that have attempted the same. Nerfing weapons is a lazy way to add difficulty. They should just ficus on making new and interesting enemy variants or new planetary effects or something. Not everything needs to be tedious to be challenging. Variety can be challenging.
That's what I was saying bro! Like when Dough swipes around back and forth really quick it literally looks like he's rapid firing flame decals at the enemy. 😂😂
Why doesn't my flamethrower shoot 120+ feet and stick to things? That's Unrealistic! Why can't I boil the chargers insides up like a crab in boiling water? That's Unrealistic!
I think they replaced a flame stream with bullets that have a flame skin. The way it puffs out just isn't like anything I've seen on any game flamethrower. Probably some weird effects to cover up behind the scene changes if I had to take a guess. Looks sloppy
Because they're too incompetent to make a flame for primary/secondaries that doesn't clip through armor so they nerfed the flamethrower stratagem with the new flame change
I think HD2 has the same issue that Project Zomboid has with realism. The devs only care about realism when it makes the game harder for the player, if something realistic makes it easier it doesn't exist.
Exactly, the rocket tanks have really stupid depression for their rockets, and the rocket holder clips through the hull, and tanks can climb almost vertically
Games should just strive to be fun. People just use realism when they want to shut down an argument or criticism, especially when the game is not grounded in realism to begin with.
Yes, the flame projectiles stop on contact with objects, like bugs. Here's the experience firing a flamethrower. Squeeze trigger, the fart goes, and a hunter flies out of crowd to dunk you from downtown. You hit it with the fire, setting you and the bug on fire, and now you're slowed. You roast that bug, but because he's blocked your fire stream, the only damage you're dealing is from the bugs playing the floor lava. You stim to avoid dying, and rinse and repeat. Feels like ass
more like "you stim to avoid dying, but it doesn't go off because you got flinched by a particle of dust grazing your shin. or you got ragdolled from one of the 400 sources of ragdoll in the videogame. you stand up and try again, then die mid stim animation."
I just wanted to run this for a bit and set everything ablaze...And now it's ruined. I think that's what everyone else was excited for too and then NERF! That's gotta be the most moronic timing ever. Steam reviews are taking a serious hit over this though. They might actually be forced to revert.
We all wanted to drop on Hellmire, full flame loadout, and just watch everything burn, whilst at the same time not burning to a crisp. They took that away from us to give us a primary and a secondary Nerf Flamethrower. Let that sink in. All those mouth breathers say, "Let them cook" and this is what they cook up. Game's chalked...
Next patch be like: "despite previous adjustments we felt like the incendiary breaker was still completely overshadowing all other weapons in its intended niche so to give players more options we will be reducing the spare magazine count from 4 to 2"
The update after: "We still see that players are using the breaker incendiary and want to promote more weapon diversity, so we're reducing the ammo count from 2 to 0. We think this will effectively incentivize players to try other weapons"
They just don't know what they're doing and saying. REAL INFO: A real flamethrower in WW1 got to over 3000 degrees F'. It was originally intended to snuff out oxygen and incapacitate with an added utility to be able to dump its fuel on the ground and ignite it later. In WWII their distance was upgraded from under 50ft to a range depending on the model of up to 160ft to ~300ft+. Cast iron melts at 2300 F', pure iron 2800 F', Platinum 3200 F'. There are certain fuels that we have now that burn at literally three times these temperatures. Yet, somehow intergalactic, future super soldiers have a BIC lighter in their hands that can't cook organic living material.....
The fire will no longer pass through an enemy or any solid object, meaning the bug in front needs to die and fall out of the way before you can kill the one behind them
Dough has been right from the beginning when he talked about the Railgun. People hated him for saying it but these devs have no idea what they are doing with weapon balancing.
Honestly this. From what I’ve seen the worst part about this warbond is the booster everything else seems viable AT LEAST but the flamethrower being a support weapon it needs the higher armor pen as I don’t see why you would use it when you can use the torcher now
I think they're pretty screwed if they don't revert the flame entirely, it looks terrible and is useless. And recent steam reviews are quickly headed to "mostly negative" in just 3 days, only 57% positive. There's mostly bad reviews and nobody was really calling for it, people are just genuinely pissed off and sick of nerfs.
If you refer to the trailer, you can actually see that the flames at the time were still using the old realistic flamethrower jet. Something terrible happened between the creation of the trailer and what we got.
get my medic-jumpsuit on with supply backpack I can run the whole map without a sweat just don't let butthead know it they are going to ruin the fun in no time
The flamethrower primary: no range, no stagger, low damage. You have to be in the bug's face bobbing and weaving like mike tyson for every kill. Epic. You can probably kill the bugs quicker by just meleeing them.
The flamethrower primary is the only primary with AP3 and AP4 lmfao. The DPS with the flame itself is middle of the road, but with the added benefit of being AP3. The damage you get from the dot is substantial. It also stuns brood commanders out of their charge, and they'll revert to just walking slowly instead. Actually test your weapons.
@@jaywerner8415 this actually works really well, and I can pretty consistently rack between 12-18 kills in one canister by setting the ground on fire with the torcher. Depending on the crowd, I can get lucky and score over 20. It also works alright with singular chaff bugs if you very briefly light them on fire and walk away.
I feel like they couldn't figure out how to code the weapons to behave different than the stratagem Flamethrower, so they just made the Flamethrower behave like a shitty propane flamethrower and completely botched the update. We went from a flamethrower that actually operates like a real flamethrower to just shit.
@@ElBandito??? They do exactly that. They used them as anti tank weapons as the heat from them cooked the crew inside. Do you know about thermal conduction? Heating the outside shell will cook the inside flesh. Heat doesn't bounce off it is absorbed.
@@ElBanditoAnd now you have moved the goal post. I offered an explanation and you decided to make the conversation about something entirely different. Sure, it shouldn't kill the charger by melting the leg. Arrowhead could have instead make it so the chargers center mass takes the most from fire damage. But they didn't, and they hide behind realism for the advantage of avoiding criticism and it doesn't hold water.
Putting aside any sort of balance discussion. I don't understand how the art department allowed the flame effects to be downgraded so badly. It went from being a realistic jet of burning liquid to a higher texture quality version of the TF2's puffy flames.
Major problem. It needs to get more fun not more difficult. Warhammer has all the lore and fun pretty dialed in honestly and with a AAA budget.. It’s gonna be rough on the numbers for sure
I never pre-order anything anymore but I have high hopes for it. I love co-op but Arrowhead hates us so I uninstalled today. Hopefully we get that sweet teamwork feel in Space Marine.
You could not make this up if you wanted to. How do they think people are gonna play the game when they work like this ? less than 10% of all time peak btw...
The old flamethrower felt and acted like a flamethrower. The new strategem flamethrower and the warbond flamethrowers look and feel like one of Elon's fake Boring Company not-a-flamethrower's.
@@frostacy6765 No it feels significantly weaker. Flamethrower fire no longer spreads to other enemies, it cant kill chargers reliably, and the visuals are so bad now it looks horrible. Base damage remains unchanged, but the way that damage is dealt is massively nerfed. Please don't defend the nerfs.
@@jakebulmer8698 no the change is literally only towards tank armor, strategem napalm is still super effective on swarms. i dont agree with the vs charger change but you need to stop making shit up to justify yourself
@@frostacy6765 He's not making shit up, you're just straight wrong. The patch notes straight up said flames "doesn't go through various bodies/objects." That means their horde clearing potential was reduced because the stream is only hitting the enemy right in front of you, and not everything in the cone. The only way to damage the horde now is to light the ground on fire, otherwise the flamethrower is a single target dps weapon for some stupid reason.
I feel like the flame nerf was due to laziness or poor programming rather than an actual need for a nerf. They probably didn’t want to add/change logic for a different flame for the primary/secondary flame throwers, so they chose the easier route of using the same class as the flame thrower, nerfing the flame thrower class so it would match better for the primary/secondary and then hide that reasoning behind the “oh we needed to nerf because flamethrower is OP”.
They definitely got lazy, stapled an already established mechanic to too many weapons and nerfed the whole lot because of it rather than coming up with new concepts.
@@sebastianbonilla1323 I’d say it’s a GOOD booster. Not good as in it being useful, but good as in funny and unique. Definitely not a pick for 7 or higher, but an enhancement for 6 and below in the fun department.
Yeah I already knew summoning fire around pods that you usually Go Near To Take Something is gonna be problematic. Never had to say this in any other game but they really need a new ideas person.
@@frostacy6765 They need a new everything person. Tons of bugs, balance is cheeks, animations looks awful (the new "flames" 🤢), etc. Nothing is going well rn.
I find it ironic with all the nae sayers, claiming dough was too toxic and always way too negative and here we are, almost full circle where almost everything he said in the beginning came to fruition. The devs suck at balancing and the content is inherently easy and no amount of weapon nerfs will change that without a fundamental game design shift.
He was too quick to criticize, because he was basing his argument on a single point of data. Even though he turned out to be right, it was nothing but a lucky guess at the time. And it did make him look like he was overreacting and crying over nothing, which only hurt his argument and made people ignore him. But now there are definitely enough data points to form a very clear pattern. So NOW we should all criticize Arrowhead for their actions, because we have enough data to support our arguments. Now we can prove that we aren't just complaining about nothing. Now we can prove that there is a very real problem here that needs to be fixed. This is something that more gamers need to learn. Going on the warpath at the first tiny sign of trouble doesn't actually help. It just perpetuates the stereotype of gamers being entitled childish brats. And the more companies think of us all that way, the less likely they are to listen to us when we actually do have valid complaints. Because they can just excuse it as childish whining, and everyone will believe them.
@@doomspud6302 nah I think anyone went a brain couldve seen that AH only cares about nerfing good guns when they nerfed the railgun cause it was too “braindead”
@@doomspud6302I agree 100%, felt the guy was a doomer but it’s clear as day now that the game is in a complete decline and the active player base (or lack of them) is reflective of this. I actually uninstalled the game because of this and I’m genuinely curious to see how much further they’re willing to drive this game into the ground.
"Realism is only here to take away from the player, not give to the player." People talking about this on the Discord and subreddit. Glad to hear you saying it as well. It's absolutely ridiculous how they keep using that broken excuse for their laziness.
Unironically the game balance upon release was the best balance we've had, which is very sad. All we can do is leave a bad review, uninstall, & forget this game even exists until maybe one or two years from now.
@@LaserTractor *pushes up glasses* no you don't understand you gun doing 2 damage is to OP it can practically kill mobs in 149 shots while my 1 damage gun take a lovely 186 shots to kill hehehehe GET GUD SCRUB bow to me for i no life this game!
@@aashilr yup uninstallEd today. wasted over 700hrs on this game thinking they would turn it around. Nope, Arrowhead is run by people who need to lose their studio.
@@big_petebear8535 To be fair, I wouldn't say it's time wasted. I think vast majority of people got their money's worth by the time you get to around level 40 - 50, which happened to be the initial max level. It's just sad to see them touting this as a live service, hilariously failing to balance as such, and seeing many players leave all because they refuse to listen to player feedback. At least there are other games out there to play.
Nerfing fire to make it "more realistic" is just a cover for arrowhead. If fire is nerfed why is the hulks flamethrower unchanged and op. They 1000% made the change to do a nerf. I think the old fire looked and felt more realistic.
I honestly thought it was a bit of an issue before, like the flames should engulf the target and hit more enemies behind it with sustained fire. Now the arc thrower and flamethrower swapped places with this issue after this patch...
The theory that made most sense for this god awful fire change was AH got lazy w/ the two flamethrower weapons in the Warbond and just copied the template from the support Flamethrower to make these work and, as a result, those weapons would've been able to kill Chargers just as quick. So they sacrificed the support flamethrowers usefulness by reworking the way fire works in the hands of Helldivers to balance the new flamethrower weapons. So if thats true, basically the Flame Warbond is the worst thing to happen to flame weapons
2:25 After what you said and think about it, 75% fire resistance armor is good for players like the Devs playing in the last stream that have a reaction time of a turtle to dive and pop a stim when get on fire. In reality it is not better then a Medic armor indeed. Great analysis.
I tested a napalm strike on it, still kills you before you can drive and stim. Flame armor is bottom tier. Could have done something like make the bugs catch on fire if they attack you or something worthwhile, but nope, just more useless stuff.
If it was at least 90% fire resistance and made it so you don't catch on fire, just take damage from fire, it would actually be really good. As it stands now, it's just meh and overall useless because what's the point in even using a flamethrower now?
Same, I just…cant take the gaslighting anymore. The fans for this game, sucking off Arrowhead’s bad “balance” are some of the most disingenuous self gaslighting morons I have ever seen.
Chaff bugs also tank the flames now. Hunters jump thru and final strike MUCH more often. Little penetration and AOE damage is much less. Much more fuel and time to kill anything. FT feels like a primary weapon now, since the devs want primaries for chaff only.
It tested a lot of the flame physics. The flames now behave like thick, slow orange bullets. With a semi solid core at the center. If the core hits anything the flames will be absorbed or deflected depending on how solid the object is and its geometry. This creates weird and in some cases ridiculous interactions.
@@juan0808 Used to be able to set a lot more of the ground ablaze easier too, or it'd at least appear so. Now that's even wonky, gotta say...Revert this and I'll revert my steam review after 3 solid updates.
@Porkleaker for the ground the problem is the flames will be reflected at certain angles and go for the sky. Creating only a very small patch of fire. Before the stream of flame would simply run along the ground. Also, certain intersections in assets would completely stop the flames. The most ridiculous one is the intersection between concrete floor tiles of outposts and soil terrain. Even if it is a 2mm difference in elevation the flames will be deflected in crazy angles.
AH: “The flamethrowers good now? Oh we can’t have that nerf it now. Also let’s release a flame warbond and use the community as guinea pigs to test our nerfs”
I just... I'm not even mad about the fact that they made yet another fun weapon into total dogwater. That's whatever, I'll just go play another game that has fun weapons to use. What really sticks in my head and has kept me low key angry the last two days is just the mind boggling stupidity of whatever moon-logic decision making process went in to these nerfs. I cannot wrap my mind around how these decisions were filtered through multiple people and at no point did any of them stop and say "wow this looks and feels like total shit now, let's not move forward with this." Like, I know people have been throwing shade at that Alexus guy who's in charge of the balance team, saying he's a spiteful shitbag deliberately trying to sabotage the game with moronic smooth brained "balance" adjustments torpedoing the usability of weapons and strategems because he apparently fucked up a previous game called Hello Neighbor or something? I thought people were just being facetious and taking the piss out of the guy for being attached to a less than stellar project. But now I have to wonder: What if this guy actually IS deliberately trying to sabotage the game? Pilestedt literally stepped down from the CEO position to get his hands dirty and get a better grasp on the balance direction of the game, he literally said in no uncertain terms that the nerfs were too frequent, too heavy handed, and TTK was too high. And literally not a few months later what happens? The most heavy handed drastic nerfs they've ever done get pushed out, going so far beyond what prior nerfs did up to actually changing the graphics for an entire weapons and making them a massive DOWNGRADE in quality. Does Alexus have some sort of blackmail on Pilestedt or something? Pilestedt is, or at least was, literally the top boss of the company, he could have just dragged Alexus into his office, pointed to all the steam forum threads and reddit threads and discord messages that said his balancing philosophy was shit and told him "Stop it or you're ass is outta here.". Instead the opposite happens and things just get worse. Just... HOW?!? How can a company with as many people as they have, with as much experience as they have, be *this* clueless and constantly, CONSTANTLY bungle basic game design so badly? It defies logic and reason!
Arrowhead biggest fumble of all time. This is worse than the rocksteady fumble with suicide squad, because at least that game was already trash. Helldiver's 2 is the best live service co-op horde shooter to ever exist and arrowhead ruined it.
Damn that flame visual looks like shit, what the hell?! Also, the trick with flamethrowers is to make a trail on the ground between you and the bug before/after setting them on fire for extra damage.
Even when doing the fire trail, flame does the same tick damage regardless of its source. It simply does not do enough damage to anything stronger than warriors.
It also feels like standard light bots take more shots from the sickle to bring down. I’ve also noticed that heavy devastators no longer stagger from an autocannon shot to the shield. Both of these may be placebo due to every update bringing nerfs with hidden changes, possibly making me overthink things. Though I am nearly certain I could stagger heavy devs from a hit to the shield pre update.
@@OhDoughYou can stagger them with the Plasma Punisher so if the Autocannon can't do it then they're ass backward nerfingAutocannon. I'm so sick of these devs.
@@dudeiii2069 they also randomly made it able to one shot the regular scout striders to the eye hole and stagger hulks from a hit to the rear. It’s a weird give and take this patch
With the sickle, I think they changed some of the interactions of lasers. Some people are noticing that lasers now can light enemies on fire. But personally I haven't tested it myself.
Got to hand it to you people who still play this. You're all really good at making the best out of anything~ I bet you could make dental pain fun. I'm truly envious of how easy it must be to be entertained.
The worst part of it all is that we were promised no new nerfs and yet here we are. Ive had so much fun playing this game which is why i keep goving them the benefit of the doubt but being lied to is just unacceptable. If they dont roll back this change i may have to give up on a game i so very much love playing
@@big_petebear8535 I sincerely hope that isn't the case but it sure feels like it. I'm not ready to install as I can still have fun fighting the Bots which I do primarily but it's hard for me to get my friends to play when either they don't want to or get frustrated after a couple of matches. I think we're past the point of if people don't bring meta they get kicked and just make everything feel meta so we can all have fun. But it does feel like they take away a great toy from you and then force you to play with other toys that are all broken already. Sad thing is most of us could easily tell them how to make each gun fun to use so that it's balanced in a meaningful way. One can hope for change but I don't think we expect it at this point. Only a handful of true diehards will stick around at this rate.
@@big_petebear8535400 hours here and also contemplated on uninstalling today I just can’t wrap my head around their choices and it’s to the point where I don’t care to try to understand them anymore i may check out from it entirely. Fkn sucks cause when I first played this I was excited to see how much new stuff they’d add can’t say the same now ….
They'll roll it back like they rolled back fragmentation ricochets (eruptor nerf) the ps5 crossplay damage bug (railgun nerf) and the spawn rates (they lied to us in may and tried something else instead that still makes enemy spawns terrible)
@@virgil7272 Yeah I noticed the enemies spawn rate seems off the chart with new update. In one mission alone it felt like a Berserker factory was just spawning them infinitely.
At this point the ineptitude seems intentional. How many examples do we have to suffer before the game dies? Despite the bugs, the game was fun in the beginning. Never seen a developer fumble this hard.
I've gotten used to getting a shit game at launch and then it gets actually decent over time, never imagined I'd have to deal with it going the other way. Thanks AH, very cool.
From a realism standpoint how does a chargers armor dissipate heat? The only way it would be able to be immune to flame would be if it were able to disperse the heat and keep it from building up enough to cause damage. To me, its more unrealistic to say that flame doesnt penetrate the armor because nothing is gonna be immune to immense heat. I wish they would add the armor pen back to the flamethrower and leave it off for the Torcher and Crisper.
If you say oh here comes dough complaining at the end because of commenter's saying that don't pay attention to that. You've been spot on about the changes that need to be made and have had very valid criticisms of the nerfs the devs continue to do.
The Cookout is weird because they gave it low durable damage so is not effective against spewers butts or commanders heads. Even if it's supposed to shoot bigger rounds. The flames will get blocked by enemies and corpses, technically the physics now increase the damage against single targets but the overall effectiveness against groups is reduced.
That weapon is basically a punisher with less damage and the lame fire gimmick, so lame that you rarely see the enemies catching on fire, they either die first or just don't catch fire at all.
Tried them today; the fire pump shotgun is "ok" at best. The best thing seems to be the good knockback/stagger effect. Fire damage seemed to do very little. The primary flamethrower, oh nooooo.... it was downright awful to use. Not enough range, bad damage on enemy, enemy does not care if you shoot fire in their face as they just keep on charging you and jumping at you (weapon needs way more knockback/stagger to counter this issue), you seem to put yourself on fire more than the enemy is dying to your flames. Overall an abysmal experience and it felt insanely weak to use. The armor passive with 75%, it helped a bit, but even 75% seemed to be too little considering how much fire there is going to be now. I still stand by my previous 95% needed stance. Going from dying from put on fire in 2-3 seconds to dying in 6-7 seconds is not good enough for a flame trooper. The booster is next to useless, and seems to do almost no damage to enemy, more so to your team and friendlies who might catch an unintentional fire effect from random drop-pod and support pod. Overall I feel this warbond should have been way stronger and feel way more fun to use. 4/10 for me at most. Maybe even a 3/10.
yeah I don't get the idea behind the booster, like yeah flaming drop pods but who the hell wants to stand 5 meters away from their support drop just so they don't light themselves on fire? And it seems like a waste to throw a drop pod into a crowd of enemies since you'll be losing out on your item that's now in the middle of a bunch of flaming enemies.
@@spectywecty For stratagems with backpacks and support weapons is an downgrade which can lead to 3 people dying per match, but for mines or tesla turret can be ok and that's it.
The reason you light yourself on fire is because flames now bounce practically on everything. So by shooting targets too close to you, there is a chance the flames will be reflected and you cook yourself.
@@anstorner too bad all the mines suck lol, I can see an argument for the tesla but you'd be specifically bringing the tesla just to use the booster in a reasonable fashion
@@spectywecty I like using the regular mines, when they all explode at the same time its satisfying, sadly not much dies while also the Anti tank are extremely difficult to use due to them exploding against small ones
yeah bro i was so excited to try this warbond today with flamethrower, went in, 2 canisters charger was still alive. Alt F4 > uninstall i've been patient enough and i gave this game so many chance it was fun while it lasted.
My favourite part about this "update" is when that Dev confidently said in the trailer "Have we shown you everything EoF has to offer? Of course not!" when they quite clearly had shown us everything it has to offer. I love this game but between the nerfs and the borderline spiteful behaviour from the devs I'm really starting to lose interest. Also (without meaning to seem entitled) it's getting to a point of being a little suss that vehicles etc have still not been added despite being mostly functional like 3-4 months ago when teased? Very sad to see.
Those were leaks, they were never teased. It’ll happen bro it’s only been 6 months. They most likely needed work before releasing. The mech release was buggy when it first came out so I assume they are avoiding that same mistake. Also, when have we ever just got a major content drop? When we finish major orders/story beats, we unlock and see new stuff.
The corporate side trying to find a way / force them to charge for it? Long shot i know but we know what corporate greed has done to games@@monocyte2210
"In our previous patch we had reduced Incendiary Breaker's magazine count, but that has still not made the weapon compliant with our vision for the game, so with this patch we'll be replacing Incendiary Breaker's magnesium shells with non-biodegradable confetti. To compensate for this, Breaker will receive the one-handed trait :)"
I wanna see straight up realistic flamethrower shooting a stream of sticky fire 80 yards. I don't care if its broken make me explode on death or whatever i need it.
I have experimented with a flamethrower built on Level 10 and it is BAD, I'm level 149 I'm not a God player at this game, but I'm good enough and let me tell you, I was the weakest link out of 4 players, I wasn't able to deal with Bile Spewers as I used to before, Beefed up Brute Commanders (Love them) but they are Super strong and let's not talk about Chargers here, they take a full, FULL I say canister up their butt and that is when they are isolated and not moving (stunned) burning 5 to 10 enemies at the same time is a thing of the past, now you have to concentrate your fire on one particular unit at a time, which defeats the purpose of macro ignition of everything in your path, including ground. Ohh and guess what people do now, since they took 2 mags from incendiary shotgun, now A LOT of people start bringing supply packs with them, isn't that sad.
I find it annoying already 75% resistance. we literally have stuff right now that is immune to flames, yet the dev thinks a future version of humanity doesn't have complete immunity to fire damage
SG 451 Cookout : The gun became popular because of it being overpowered and became too reliable that it overshadowed other primaries. We removed the stagger effect and decreased fire rate to balance this weapon 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
The devs just love shooting themselves in the foot, don't they? Possibly the most anticipated warbond yet besides Viper Commando, and they pre-nerf a fire themed warbond by nerfing fire damage and the 2 best fire weapons. This will only make less people play.
And both were trash compared to warbonds of old. At least Viper commandos has a good armor passive and booster. This new one has one decent gun that is only effective against one faction...
Damn, they made the flamethrower visuals so lame! I haven't gotten back into Helldivers since the ice themed warbond(too busy), sad to see it change like that.
"we noticed 97% of players are moving forward for the majority of a mission, which overshadows the other possible directions of movement, so we reduced the speed from 6 to 4 and increased stamina consumption from 28 to 41."
@@Cedwig234 "We have noticed 99.8% of players use the same keybinds every mission. For the sake of realism, we have added modifiers to switch your keybinds randomly throughout the mission"
Call me an idiot, but being hit by a jet of flaming fuel shot at you at high pressure would probably knock you back a little. Maybe that’s why they changed the effect to what ever the hell the new flames are.
It is so lame how most of the stuff is just too shit to use, and when it gets good it gets nerfed. I stopped playing a while back for this reason but I guess I'm still gonna hold off until they realize the more viable things are in a PVE game the more fun it makes it.
I think it safe to say that flamethrowers USED to do “AoE” damage, but now they are yet another low durability-damage weapon with the added caveat of being low range, low accuracy AND low impact/flinch. The anti-fun team did a pre-launch un-aliving of the FIRST content that was due to drop after that ~2 glorious months of nothing being nerfed. The standardisation team (no weapon is immune to their butchery) are a bigger enemy to the player base than the ongoing crash issues at this point.
Just walk up to the side of an impaler, and throw a strat under the massive gap it has with the floor. They walk slow, and esp if they start tentacling, those tentacles rarely ever spawn close to the impaler itself, so you're clear to just deliver democracy in a hellpod.
Realistic fire? my brother in christ that is not how fire works and the chargers armor is stilll his skin, this is a game where faster than light travel exists and you can just stop randomly in space.💀
Anyone remember that this game was suppose to have vehicles, i bet you they were too "fun" and they are adding "realism" to them before they get released
The flamethrower is basically a melee weapon now, a melee weapon that doesn't stagger enemies... Don't say the commando is good or they will nerf it so it only shoots one rocket like the EAT.
Honestly as someone who has clocked 300+ hours (I know I’m a maniac) this update was just sad. Like how do you tease a new warbond, then nerf its main function before it comes out. Then also state that there was more stuff to see in the trailer but then there isn’t. I’m over here maxed out and quite literally almost have everything except the extra armor variants. Endgame has no rewarding mechanics nor do the weapons feel special in any way. They literally stated that they wanted diversity among load outs but that’s not even possible if everything sucks to use. You might as well be telling me to pick jack shit or fuck all with the current state of weapons.
The only viable build I have found so far is HMG, Incendiary Breaker, Stun Grenade, Grenade Pistol, supply pack, and a choice of 2 anti bile titan Strategems. HMG plus stun grenade takes care of chargers pretty well.
So in conclusion warbond is mostly shit, with cookout as the only redeeming factor. They were so scared of giving players primary and secondary weapon that can slaughter chargers they've decided to kill flamethrower as well. How do they believe releasing garbage on purpose (to the point that they'll specifically nerf core gameplay mechanic) dlcs is a good business strategy is beyond me
I'm not too hot on the new flamer weapons; short range, low damage and no stopping power The cookout though feels so much better purely for the stagger
The new flamethrowers are trash, they don’t even kill warriors fast. They are only good in niche situations like spamming a bug breach but if a commander/charger/hive guards come out you better fall back
so the "new" warbond weapons are just less effective flamethrowers for the primary and secondary slot? i only liked the flamethrower before cause it looked cool, not only does it look worse they also just didnt address the annoyances that come with using them. guess i wont be reinstalling
This gameplay is exactly what I mean when I say that above lvl 8 you need a primary to keep the hordes away otherwise you're gonna get swamped. But then you get the people who are saying "try the ARs" they are great..but what they're actually saying is that they don't play above lvl 7
The flame armor needs another effect of some sort. If we stick with purely flame based effects, then give it like a "3 second grace period before catching on fire" or "50% chance every second to not catch on fire when touching fire." The resistance is good, as it will help with not being caught off guard or if your hp is already lower so you have time to react and stim, but... it's still a little underwhelming on its own. Why not give us something a little more transformative or interesting? Can their spaghetti code not handle it?
The new Flame effect looks so ... low budget, like a generic fire cloud and not a stream.
I hate it
I was wondering about that. Turok 2 flamethrower looks better.
Literally makes me not wanna come back
That's because it's a gun now. It doesn't fire a stream like it used to, it's firing bullets which look like bad flame decals... which is how they got it to bounce.
They made a huge mistake trying to nerf it. The original animation, effect, and range of the flames was perfect. Even BETTER than most games that have attempted the same. Nerfing weapons is a lazy way to add difficulty. They should just ficus on making new and interesting enemy variants or new planetary effects or something. Not everything needs to be tedious to be challenging. Variety can be challenging.
That's what I was saying bro! Like when Dough swipes around back and forth really quick it literally looks like he's rapid firing flame decals at the enemy. 😂😂
"realism is not here to give to the player, its here to take away from the player"
bro and you were never more right for that
What about realism that makes things easier
@@dream6562 doesn't exist in HD2
Why doesn't my flamethrower shoot 120+ feet and stick to things? That's Unrealistic!
Why can't I boil the chargers insides up like a crab in boiling water? That's Unrealistic!
@@Badmagix23Why don’t my shots one tap a stalker when I hit a headshot, doesn’t exist.
I wish devs knew about that, and the fact that realism =/= fun
God that new flame looks awful, wtf is arrorwhead doing man
maybe to lower lag
Maybe they could reduce some of the fucking fog everywhere
I think they replaced a flame stream with bullets that have a flame skin. The way it puffs out just isn't like anything I've seen on any game flamethrower. Probably some weird effects to cover up behind the scene changes if I had to take a guess. Looks sloppy
Because they're too incompetent to make a flame for primary/secondaries that doesn't clip through armor so they nerfed the flamethrower stratagem with the new flame change
Fire isn't a thing in Sweden.
I think HD2 has the same issue that Project Zomboid has with realism. The devs only care about realism when it makes the game harder for the player, if something realistic makes it easier it doesn't exist.
Exactly, the rocket tanks have really stupid depression for their rockets, and the rocket holder clips through the hull, and tanks can climb almost vertically
I like backblast tho. Realistic and funny as hell. Honestly I kinda wanna test what it does to the enemy.
Games should just strive to be fun. People just use realism when they want to shut down an argument or criticism, especially when the game is not grounded in realism to begin with.
Also, this change actually makes flamethrowers less realistic
"for the sake of realism we nerf X"
Meanwhile titans taking way less damage while attacking for no reason at all.
Yes, the flame projectiles stop on contact with objects, like bugs.
Here's the experience firing a flamethrower.
Squeeze trigger, the fart goes, and a hunter flies out of crowd to dunk you from downtown. You hit it with the fire, setting you and the bug on fire, and now you're slowed. You roast that bug, but because he's blocked your fire stream, the only damage you're dealing is from the bugs playing the floor lava.
You stim to avoid dying, and rinse and repeat. Feels like ass
more like "you stim to avoid dying, but it doesn't go off because you got flinched by a particle of dust grazing your shin. or you got ragdolled from one of the 400 sources of ragdoll in the videogame. you stand up and try again, then die mid stim animation."
"Not a big fan of orange" - the whole wall is orange
THATS WHAT I WAS THINKING LMAO
me 3
Maybe is red but looks different in camera
@@Baronvonnorx yeah, looks like a bright fire red on my iPad Pro, which is the most accurate display I own lol
I came here to say that lmao
my dream of flame thrower strat, flame primary, flame secondary, incen mines, incen grenade is over before it starts
I just wanted to run this for a bit and set everything ablaze...And now it's ruined. I think that's what everyone else was excited for too and then NERF! That's gotta be the most moronic timing ever. Steam reviews are taking a serious hit over this though. They might actually be forced to revert.
We all wanted to drop on Hellmire, full flame loadout, and just watch everything burn, whilst at the same time not burning to a crisp. They took that away from us to give us a primary and a secondary Nerf Flamethrower. Let that sink in. All those mouth breathers say, "Let them cook" and this is what they cook up. Game's chalked...
Same :/
don't forget the Napalm Airstrike and also the Napalm Orbital Barrage that they teased.
@@LordVader69420COOK WHAT???? CAT SHIT????
Next patch be like: "despite previous adjustments we felt like the incendiary breaker was still completely overshadowing all other weapons in its intended niche so to give players more options we will be reducing the spare magazine count from 4 to 2"
I love how innocent it sounds with the devious phrasing "to give players more options". 😂
They won't reduce the mags again it'll reduce the amount in the magazine and lower the damage the fire does
"And the grenade laucher pistol is still overused, so we reduced the mag capacity by one to compensate for the increased ammo economy"
Don’t give them ideas
The update after: "We still see that players are using the breaker incendiary and want to promote more weapon diversity, so we're reducing the ammo count from 2 to 0. We think this will effectively incentivize players to try other weapons"
I miss the game that I bought, not the game it is now.
me to......
Worst decision ever I'll never ride is stupid over hype train again
Welcome to live service games lmao
Yeah, I'd still be playing it if they hadn't ruined it. Time to write that steam review.
They just don't know what they're doing and saying. REAL INFO: A real flamethrower in WW1 got to over 3000 degrees F'. It was originally intended to snuff out oxygen and incapacitate with an added utility to be able to dump its fuel on the ground and ignite it later. In WWII their distance was upgraded from under 50ft to a range depending on the model of up to 160ft to ~300ft+. Cast iron melts at 2300 F', pure iron 2800 F', Platinum 3200 F'. There are certain fuels that we have now that burn at literally three times these temperatures. Yet, somehow intergalactic, future super soldiers have a BIC lighter in their hands that can't cook organic living material.....
It'S mOrE rEaLiStIc NoW 🤪 - average helldivers 2 player
A fake BIC lighter. BIC lighters are gold standard
The fire will no longer pass through an enemy or any solid object, meaning the bug in front needs to die and fall out of the way before you can kill the one behind them
for realism ofc
it still goes through light enemies, napalm is the bulk of your damage when it comes to clearing swarms anyway
we should try this on 2 devs irl , see if the guy behind survive
Fun fact, now the flamethrower can't shoot through wire fences. The flames just stop and fall to the ground.
Or you just flame the feet and catch everything on fire. You do realize this was so that hulks cant flame us through walls right?
Dough has been right from the beginning when he talked about the Railgun. People hated him for saying it but these devs have no idea what they are doing with weapon balancing.
Fr
Still better than what I see players waffle about. Like comparing the intelligence of a kid to a tree's
Press button to make game less fun
Arrowhead presses button
Remember when the first Railgun nerf, AH had the audacity to say “git gud” and everyone laughed at “complainers”
No one is laughing now
Pilestedt is away on vacation so I'm guessing Alexus was in charge of releasing the update. Makes sense.
I hope they rollback the visuals and give the support flamethrowers higher armor pen
Honestly this. From what I’ve seen the worst part about this warbond is the booster everything else seems viable AT LEAST but the flamethrower being a support weapon it needs the higher armor pen as I don’t see why you would use it when you can use the torcher now
2 days since the Eruptor incident (a supposed "bug fix" that ended up being super detrimental to a certain weapon)
I think they're pretty screwed if they don't revert the flame entirely, it looks terrible and is useless. And recent steam reviews are quickly headed to "mostly negative" in just 3 days, only 57% positive. There's mostly bad reviews and nobody was really calling for it, people are just genuinely pissed off and sick of nerfs.
They will never do that. Just look past patches. They are stubborn and don't give a crap about us players.
They won't. They don't give AF.
If you refer to the trailer, you can actually see that the flames at the time were still using the old realistic flamethrower jet. Something terrible happened between the creation of the trailer and what we got.
Good observation! So this flamethrower patch was quickly slapped onto the Update much later on, I‘m guessing.
Reminds me of the Purifier and what they did to that.
Damn 200IQ with the statement that the medic armour is effectively better at resisting fire than the fire armour, did not think about that at all
get my medic-jumpsuit on with supply backpack
I can run the whole map without a sweat
just don't let butthead know it
they are going to ruin the fun in no time
@vcqrsfdwc1987 yeah with the breaker nerf that's what I've been runnin today
The flamethrower primary: no range, no stagger, low damage. You have to be in the bug's face bobbing and weaving like mike tyson for every kill. Epic. You can probably kill the bugs quicker by just meleeing them.
You can kill basic bugs in one melee attack, hunters in 2-3. Thats about as fast if not faster than the flame primary.
Or.... you can just set the GROUND on fire.
The flamethrower primary is the only primary with AP3 and AP4 lmfao. The DPS with the flame itself is middle of the road, but with the added benefit of being AP3. The damage you get from the dot is substantial. It also stuns brood commanders out of their charge, and they'll revert to just walking slowly instead.
Actually test your weapons.
@@jaywerner8415 this actually works really well, and I can pretty consistently rack between 12-18 kills in one canister by setting the ground on fire with the torcher. Depending on the crowd, I can get lucky and score over 20.
It also works alright with singular chaff bugs if you very briefly light them on fire and walk away.
@@jaywerner8415 Indeed. Why have the bug die when I pull the trigger when I can have it die 10 seconds after I pull the trigger.
I feel like they couldn't figure out how to code the weapons to behave different than the stratagem Flamethrower, so they just made the Flamethrower behave like a shitty propane flamethrower and completely botched the update. We went from a flamethrower that actually operates like a real flamethrower to just shit.
Don't remember real flamethrower melting through heavy armor.
@@ElBandito??? They do exactly that. They used them as anti tank weapons as the heat from them cooked the crew inside. Do you know about thermal conduction?
Heating the outside shell will cook the inside flesh. Heat doesn't bounce off it is absorbed.
@@goose886
To be fair most basement dwelling sycophants won’t know these things.
@@goose886 Oh yes, somehow cooking a leg for 2 seconds kills a Charger. Totally makes sense.
@@ElBanditoAnd now you have moved the goal post. I offered an explanation and you decided to make the conversation about something entirely different.
Sure, it shouldn't kill the charger by melting the leg. Arrowhead could have instead make it so the chargers center mass takes the most from fire damage. But they didn't, and they hide behind realism for the advantage of avoiding criticism and it doesn't hold water.
Putting aside any sort of balance discussion. I don't understand how the art department allowed the flame effects to be downgraded so badly. It went from being a realistic jet of burning liquid to a higher texture quality version of the TF2's puffy flames.
Warhammer is a month away and arrowhead is nerfing weapons and upsetting the players. This could be a problem
Major problem.
It needs to get more fun not more difficult.
Warhammer has all the lore and fun pretty dialed in honestly and with a AAA budget..
It’s gonna be rough on the numbers for sure
I never pre-order anything anymore but I have high hopes for it.
I love co-op but Arrowhead hates us so I uninstalled today. Hopefully we get that sweet teamwork feel in Space Marine.
yepsirreee can't wait
If kill their game is what theyre trying to do they are successful.
It will be fine. Ass tarts are dumb.
Here's an awesome flame war bond... but first we'll nerf flame damage.... jeez....
Swedes man.
You could not make this up if you wanted to. How do they think people are gonna play the game when they work like this ? less than 10% of all time peak btw...
@@idkman2729 So weird. Everyone's been clamoring for flame armor. They get everyone excited to come back and shoot themselves in the foot.
@@blahblahblah8583 This is more like a gutshot than a footshot.
@@Deadsnake989straight to the dome. This shit is straight outta a south park episode 😂
Forget the terminids and automatons, these devs are the real villains
The old flamethrower felt and acted like a flamethrower. The new strategem flamethrower and the warbond flamethrowers look and feel like one of Elon's fake Boring Company not-a-flamethrower's.
Still feels fine, damage profile is unchanged. Just bring a shieldpack because youre within hunter jumping range
@@frostacy6765 L take. You don't even play the game
@@frostacy6765 No it feels significantly weaker. Flamethrower fire no longer spreads to other enemies, it cant kill chargers reliably, and the visuals are so bad now it looks horrible. Base damage remains unchanged, but the way that damage is dealt is massively nerfed. Please don't defend the nerfs.
@@jakebulmer8698 no the change is literally only towards tank armor, strategem napalm is still super effective on swarms. i dont agree with the vs charger change but you need to stop making shit up to justify yourself
@@frostacy6765 He's not making shit up, you're just straight wrong. The patch notes straight up said flames "doesn't go through various bodies/objects." That means their horde clearing potential was reduced because the stream is only hitting the enemy right in front of you, and not everything in the cone. The only way to damage the horde now is to light the ground on fire, otherwise the flamethrower is a single target dps weapon for some stupid reason.
I feel like the flame nerf was due to laziness or poor programming rather than an actual need for a nerf. They probably didn’t want to add/change logic for a different flame for the primary/secondary flame throwers, so they chose the easier route of using the same class as the flame thrower, nerfing the flame thrower class so it would match better for the primary/secondary and then hide that reasoning behind the “oh we needed to nerf because flamethrower is OP”.
They definitely got lazy, stapled an already established mechanic to too many weapons and nerfed the whole lot because of it rather than coming up with new concepts.
I personally put the new booster in troll tier. I love burning to death every time I call EATs thanks to a teammate wasting a booster slot.
Fr, that boosted just exists to grief your team
By far the worst booster added to the game lol
@@sebastianbonilla1323 I’d say it’s a GOOD booster. Not good as in it being useful, but good as in funny and unique.
Definitely not a pick for 7 or higher, but an enhancement for 6 and below in the fun department.
Yeah I already knew summoning fire around pods that you usually Go Near To Take Something is gonna be problematic. Never had to say this in any other game but they really need a new ideas person.
@@frostacy6765 They need a new everything person. Tons of bugs, balance is cheeks, animations looks awful (the new "flames" 🤢), etc. Nothing is going well rn.
It does look sick when everyone lands in at the beginning, though.
I find it ironic with all the nae sayers, claiming dough was too toxic and always way too negative and here we are, almost full circle where almost everything he said in the beginning came to fruition. The devs suck at balancing and the content is inherently easy and no amount of weapon nerfs will change that without a fundamental game design shift.
He was too quick to criticize, because he was basing his argument on a single point of data. Even though he turned out to be right, it was nothing but a lucky guess at the time. And it did make him look like he was overreacting and crying over nothing, which only hurt his argument and made people ignore him.
But now there are definitely enough data points to form a very clear pattern. So NOW we should all criticize Arrowhead for their actions, because we have enough data to support our arguments. Now we can prove that we aren't just complaining about nothing. Now we can prove that there is a very real problem here that needs to be fixed.
This is something that more gamers need to learn. Going on the warpath at the first tiny sign of trouble doesn't actually help. It just perpetuates the stereotype of gamers being entitled childish brats. And the more companies think of us all that way, the less likely they are to listen to us when we actually do have valid complaints. Because they can just excuse it as childish whining, and everyone will believe them.
@@doomspud6302 nah I think anyone went a brain couldve seen that AH only cares about nerfing good guns when they nerfed the railgun cause it was too “braindead”
@@doomspud6302I agree 100%, felt the guy was a doomer but it’s clear as day now that the game is in a complete decline and the active player base (or lack of them) is reflective of this. I actually uninstalled the game because of this and I’m genuinely curious to see how much further they’re willing to drive this game into the ground.
"Realism is only here to take away from the player, not give to the player."
People talking about this on the Discord and subreddit. Glad to hear you saying it as well. It's absolutely ridiculous how they keep using that broken excuse for their laziness.
Thanks for doing this for us so we don't all have to suffer. Keep up the great work!
Unironically the game balance upon release was the best balance we've had, which is very sad. All we can do is leave a bad review, uninstall, & forget this game even exists until maybe one or two years from now.
And then return to see lootboxes and the most toxic tryhards on the planet
@@LaserTractor *pushes up glasses* no you don't understand you gun doing 2 damage is to OP it can practically kill mobs in 149 shots while my 1 damage gun take a lovely 186 shots to kill hehehehe GET GUD SCRUB bow to me for i no life this game!
@@aashilr yup uninstallEd today. wasted over 700hrs on this game thinking they would turn it around. Nope, Arrowhead is run by people who need to lose their studio.
@@big_petebear8535 To be fair, I wouldn't say it's time wasted. I think vast majority of people got their money's worth by the time you get to around level 40 - 50, which happened to be the initial max level. It's just sad to see them touting this as a live service, hilariously failing to balance as such, and seeing many players leave all because they refuse to listen to player feedback. At least there are other games out there to play.
"I'm not a big orange fan either" he says with an entire orange wall behind him..
it's red... the wall came with the house
Good on you for hitting that gym. Get some guns nobody can nerf that way.
Nerfing fire to make it "more realistic" is just a cover for arrowhead. If fire is nerfed why is the hulks flamethrower unchanged and op. They 1000% made the change to do a nerf. I think the old fire looked and felt more realistic.
I agree. I noticed the flamethrower cant even kill the chaff as fast as it used to
Yes I tested it. The reason is the flames will be deflected even by the tiniest obstacle. This prevents hitting bugs on back of the swarm.
I honestly thought it was a bit of an issue before, like the flames should engulf the target and hit more enemies behind it with sustained fire. Now the arc thrower and flamethrower swapped places with this issue after this patch...
The theory that made most sense for this god awful fire change was AH got lazy w/ the two flamethrower weapons in the Warbond and just copied the template from the support Flamethrower to make these work and, as a result, those weapons would've been able to kill Chargers just as quick. So they sacrificed the support flamethrowers usefulness by reworking the way fire works in the hands of Helldivers to balance the new flamethrower weapons.
So if thats true, basically the Flame Warbond is the worst thing to happen to flame weapons
The flame warbond killed the flamer loadout. You can't make this 💩 up...
2:25 After what you said and think about it, 75% fire resistance armor is good for players like the Devs playing in the last stream that have a reaction time of a turtle to dive and pop a stim when get on fire. In reality it is not better then a Medic armor indeed. Great analysis.
I tested a napalm strike on it, still kills you before you can drive and stim. Flame armor is bottom tier.
Could have done something like make the bugs catch on fire if they attack you or something worthwhile, but nope, just more useless stuff.
If it was at least 90% fire resistance and made it so you don't catch on fire, just take damage from fire, it would actually be really good. As it stands now, it's just meh and overall useless because what's the point in even using a flamethrower now?
Hell even knocking off the Hero Federation armor and giving the fire armor a coinflip chance not to catch on fire could have worked.
@@LordVader69420 That is a better idea. Take way less damage from the fire but do not catch fire. That would be useful so u don't need to pop a stim.
I uninstalled today.
This warbond was the last straw.
Same, I just…cant take the gaslighting anymore. The fans for this game, sucking off Arrowhead’s bad “balance” are some of the most disingenuous self gaslighting morons I have ever seen.
The support flamethrower was a "sometimes" pick when you could take chargers out in 2 seconds when focusing the legs. I see no reason to take it now.
It was good for hordes and bug holes as well. Now, not so much. Another one for the trash bin...
I like to use it on hordes of small bugs, its pretty good against those
Chaff bugs also tank the flames now. Hunters jump thru and final strike MUCH more often. Little penetration and AOE damage is much less. Much more fuel and time to kill anything. FT feels like a primary weapon now, since the devs want primaries for chaff only.
It tested a lot of the flame physics. The flames now behave like thick, slow orange bullets. With a semi solid core at the center. If the core hits anything the flames will be absorbed or deflected depending on how solid the object is and its geometry.
This creates weird and in some cases ridiculous interactions.
@@juan0808 Used to be able to set a lot more of the ground ablaze easier too, or it'd at least appear so. Now that's even wonky, gotta say...Revert this and I'll revert my steam review after 3 solid updates.
@@juan0808 The recoil is also excessive. Very unenjoyable to use now.
@Porkleaker for the ground the problem is the flames will be reflected at certain angles and go for the sky. Creating only a very small patch of fire. Before the stream of flame would simply run along the ground.
Also, certain intersections in assets would completely stop the flames. The most ridiculous one is the intersection between concrete floor tiles of outposts and soil terrain. Even if it is a 2mm difference in elevation the flames will be deflected in crazy angles.
Space Marine 2 coming in 3 weeks
I'm ready!!!
Can't wait! has which chapter are you guys gonna customize your space marine?
yeah I hope this game dies by then.
@@elkmeatenjoyer3409 How Cruel. Also It won't.
@@strengthisabsolutestrength8215 dark angels or salamanders, you?
They were using orbital napalm strike in the stream and said we would get to buy it when the warbond came out. Where is it?
Whenever the guy that control the game progression use it on a MO or some bs like the children's hospital and the anti-tank mines.
AH: “The flamethrowers good now? Oh we can’t have that nerf it now. Also let’s release a flame warbond and use the community as guinea pigs to test our nerfs”
They _just_ fixed flame damage too...
I just... I'm not even mad about the fact that they made yet another fun weapon into total dogwater. That's whatever, I'll just go play another game that has fun weapons to use.
What really sticks in my head and has kept me low key angry the last two days is just the mind boggling stupidity of whatever moon-logic decision making process went in to these nerfs. I cannot wrap my mind around how these decisions were filtered through multiple people and at no point did any of them stop and say "wow this looks and feels like total shit now, let's not move forward with this."
Like, I know people have been throwing shade at that Alexus guy who's in charge of the balance team, saying he's a spiteful shitbag deliberately trying to sabotage the game with moronic smooth brained "balance" adjustments torpedoing the usability of weapons and strategems because he apparently fucked up a previous game called Hello Neighbor or something? I thought people were just being facetious and taking the piss out of the guy for being attached to a less than stellar project.
But now I have to wonder: What if this guy actually IS deliberately trying to sabotage the game? Pilestedt literally stepped down from the CEO position to get his hands dirty and get a better grasp on the balance direction of the game, he literally said in no uncertain terms that the nerfs were too frequent, too heavy handed, and TTK was too high. And literally not a few months later what happens? The most heavy handed drastic nerfs they've ever done get pushed out, going so far beyond what prior nerfs did up to actually changing the graphics for an entire weapons and making them a massive DOWNGRADE in quality.
Does Alexus have some sort of blackmail on Pilestedt or something? Pilestedt is, or at least was, literally the top boss of the company, he could have just dragged Alexus into his office, pointed to all the steam forum threads and reddit threads and discord messages that said his balancing philosophy was shit and told him "Stop it or you're ass is outta here.". Instead the opposite happens and things just get worse.
Just... HOW?!? How can a company with as many people as they have, with as much experience as they have, be *this* clueless and constantly, CONSTANTLY bungle basic game design so badly? It defies logic and reason!
Supposedly Pilestedt has been on his vacation when this update dropped...
Yeah it’s pathetic I was playing earlier and also got cringe from how weak everything is now, yet we got new enemies….
Arrowhead biggest fumble of all time. This is worse than the rocksteady fumble with suicide squad, because at least that game was already trash. Helldiver's 2 is the best live service co-op horde shooter to ever exist and arrowhead ruined it.
Warframe has fun weapons and hordes to shoot them at!
I was literally about to post exactly this word for word but you beat me to it.
The teammates talking in a different language somehow made this video even better
Damn that flame visual looks like shit, what the hell?! Also, the trick with flamethrowers is to make a trail on the ground between you and the bug before/after setting them on fire for extra damage.
He has particles on low
Even when doing the fire trail, flame does the same tick damage regardless of its source. It simply does not do enough damage to anything stronger than warriors.
It also feels like standard light bots take more shots from the sickle to bring down. I’ve also noticed that heavy devastators no longer stagger from an autocannon shot to the shield. Both of these may be placebo due to every update bringing nerfs with hidden changes, possibly making me overthink things. Though I am nearly certain I could stagger heavy devs from a hit to the shield pre update.
shieldons not getting staggered from auto cannon is mega annoying. you could 1,000% stagger them before
@@OhDoughYou can stagger them with the Plasma Punisher so if the Autocannon can't do it then they're ass backward nerfingAutocannon. I'm so sick of these devs.
Damn they really managed to nerf the autocanon somehow
@@dudeiii2069 they also randomly made it able to one shot the regular scout striders to the eye hole and stagger hulks from a hit to the rear. It’s a weird give and take this patch
With the sickle, I think they changed some of the interactions of lasers. Some people are noticing that lasers now can light enemies on fire. But personally I haven't tested it myself.
Got to hand it to you people who still play this. You're all really good at making the best out of anything~ I bet you could make dental pain fun. I'm truly envious of how easy it must be to be entertained.
The worst part of it all is that we were promised no new nerfs and yet here we are. Ive had so much fun playing this game which is why i keep goving them the benefit of the doubt but being lied to is just unacceptable. If they dont roll back this change i may have to give up on a game i so very much love playing
I uninstalled today after 472hrs.
I have excepted that it's not just incompetence, it's malice against the fans.
@@big_petebear8535 I sincerely hope that isn't the case but it sure feels like it. I'm not ready to install as I can still have fun fighting the Bots which I do primarily but it's hard for me to get my friends to play when either they don't want to or get frustrated after a couple of matches. I think we're past the point of if people don't bring meta they get kicked and just make everything feel meta so we can all have fun. But it does feel like they take away a great toy from you and then force you to play with other toys that are all broken already. Sad thing is most of us could easily tell them how to make each gun fun to use so that it's balanced in a meaningful way. One can hope for change but I don't think we expect it at this point. Only a handful of true diehards will stick around at this rate.
@@big_petebear8535400 hours here and also contemplated on uninstalling today I just can’t wrap my head around their choices and it’s to the point where I don’t care to try to understand them anymore i may check out from it entirely. Fkn sucks cause when I first played this I was excited to see how much new stuff they’d add can’t say the same now ….
They'll roll it back like they rolled back fragmentation ricochets (eruptor nerf) the ps5 crossplay damage bug (railgun nerf) and the spawn rates (they lied to us in may and tried something else instead that still makes enemy spawns terrible)
@@virgil7272 Yeah I noticed the enemies spawn rate seems off the chart with new update. In one mission alone it felt like a Berserker factory was just spawning them infinitely.
At this point the ineptitude seems intentional. How many examples do we have to suffer before the game dies? Despite the bugs, the game was fun in the beginning. Never seen a developer fumble this hard.
I've gotten used to getting a shit game at launch and then it gets actually decent over time, never imagined I'd have to deal with it going the other way. Thanks AH, very cool.
From a realism standpoint how does a chargers armor dissipate heat? The only way it would be able to be immune to flame would be if it were able to disperse the heat and keep it from building up enough to cause damage. To me, its more unrealistic to say that flame doesnt penetrate the armor because nothing is gonna be immune to immense heat.
I wish they would add the armor pen back to the flamethrower and leave it off for the Torcher and Crisper.
If you say oh here comes dough complaining at the end because of commenter's saying that don't pay attention to that. You've been spot on about the changes that need to be made and have had very valid criticisms of the nerfs the devs continue to do.
The Torcher is slapping Wilbers across the map!
Charger after update:
"Stop human that tickles 🤣"
The Cookout is weird because they gave it low durable damage so is not effective against spewers butts or commanders heads. Even if it's supposed to shoot bigger rounds.
The flames will get blocked by enemies and corpses, technically the physics now increase the damage against single targets but the overall effectiveness against groups is reduced.
That weapon is basically a punisher with less damage and the lame fire gimmick, so lame that you rarely see the enemies catching on fire, they either die first or just don't catch fire at all.
ppl who like this warbond/update, also like to eat corn the long way.
Lol!
I will not find peace unless Arrowhead announces they are bringing the old flamethrower mechanics back
the new fire looks like mario fireballs
it looks like Bloodborne's flamesprayer, a game that came out in 2015
Tried them today; the fire pump shotgun is "ok" at best. The best thing seems to be the good knockback/stagger effect. Fire damage seemed to do very little.
The primary flamethrower, oh nooooo.... it was downright awful to use. Not enough range, bad damage on enemy, enemy does not care if you shoot fire in their face as they just keep on charging you and jumping at you (weapon needs way more knockback/stagger to counter this issue), you seem to put yourself on fire more than the enemy is dying to your flames. Overall an abysmal experience and it felt insanely weak to use.
The armor passive with 75%, it helped a bit, but even 75% seemed to be too little considering how much fire there is going to be now. I still stand by my previous 95% needed stance. Going from dying from put on fire in 2-3 seconds to dying in 6-7 seconds is not good enough for a flame trooper.
The booster is next to useless, and seems to do almost no damage to enemy, more so to your team and friendlies who might catch an unintentional fire effect from random drop-pod and support pod.
Overall I feel this warbond should have been way stronger and feel way more fun to use. 4/10 for me at most. Maybe even a 3/10.
yeah I don't get the idea behind the booster, like yeah flaming drop pods but who the hell wants to stand 5 meters away from their support drop just so they don't light themselves on fire? And it seems like a waste to throw a drop pod into a crowd of enemies since you'll be losing out on your item that's now in the middle of a bunch of flaming enemies.
@@spectywecty For stratagems with backpacks and support weapons is an downgrade which can lead to 3 people dying per match, but for mines or tesla turret can be ok and that's it.
The reason you light yourself on fire is because flames now bounce practically on everything. So by shooting targets too close to you, there is a chance the flames will be reflected and you cook yourself.
@@anstorner too bad all the mines suck lol, I can see an argument for the tesla but you'd be specifically bringing the tesla just to use the booster in a reasonable fashion
@@spectywecty I like using the regular mines, when they all explode at the same time its satisfying, sadly not much dies while also the Anti tank are extremely difficult to use due to them exploding against small ones
I am a bit bummed that the warbond didn’t come with a “Liberty Brew Molotov” throwable. No explosion, but larger and longer lasting fire.
My biggest issue with the new flame weapons / flame mechanics is diving while firing them can hit you're body and burn yourself alive
yeah bro i was so excited to try this warbond today with flamethrower, went in, 2 canisters charger was still alive. Alt F4 > uninstall i've been patient enough and i gave this game so many chance it was fun while it lasted.
Agree, so sad 🤷♀️
My favourite part about this "update" is when that Dev confidently said in the trailer "Have we shown you everything EoF has to offer? Of course not!" when they quite clearly had shown us everything it has to offer. I love this game but between the nerfs and the borderline spiteful behaviour from the devs I'm really starting to lose interest. Also (without meaning to seem entitled) it's getting to a point of being a little suss that vehicles etc have still not been added despite being mostly functional like 3-4 months ago when teased? Very sad to see.
Those were leaks, they were never teased. It’ll happen bro it’s only been 6 months. They most likely needed work before releasing. The mech release was buggy when it first came out so I assume they are avoiding that same mistake. Also, when have we ever just got a major content drop? When we finish major orders/story beats, we unlock and see new stuff.
Agree
they didn't show us that it would be terrible
The corporate side trying to find a way / force them to charge for it? Long shot i know but we know what corporate greed has done to games@@monocyte2210
My theory is they got their money and cheap out on development now. They don't care and would rather shut down the servers and keep the money
The opposite of adderal is subtracteral
"In our previous patch we had reduced Incendiary Breaker's magazine count, but that has still not made the weapon compliant with our vision for the game, so with this patch we'll be replacing Incendiary Breaker's magnesium shells with non-biodegradable confetti. To compensate for this, Breaker will receive the one-handed trait :)"
I wanna see straight up realistic flamethrower shooting a stream of sticky fire 80 yards. I don't care if its broken make me explode on death or whatever i need it.
Shooting bong water at them is what it feels like 00:01
The bugs just get high, they don't even take damage, they just pass out from smoke inhalation 😆
10:35 bro said:😄😐
I have experimented with a flamethrower built on Level 10 and it is BAD, I'm level 149 I'm not a God player at this game, but I'm good enough and let me tell you, I was the weakest link out of 4 players, I wasn't able to deal with Bile Spewers as I used to before, Beefed up Brute Commanders (Love them) but they are Super strong and let's not talk about Chargers here, they take a full, FULL I say canister up their butt and that is when they are isolated and not moving (stunned) burning 5 to 10 enemies at the same time is a thing of the past, now you have to concentrate your fire on one particular unit at a time, which defeats the purpose of macro ignition of everything in your path, including ground. Ohh and guess what people do now, since they took 2 mags from incendiary shotgun, now A LOT of people start bringing supply packs with them, isn't that sad.
I guess it now means we should expect an incoming Supply Backpack nerf :(
I find it annoying already 75% resistance. we literally have stuff right now that is immune to flames, yet the dev thinks a future version of humanity doesn't have complete immunity to fire damage
SG 451 Cookout : The gun became popular because of it being overpowered and became too reliable that it overshadowed other primaries. We removed the stagger effect and decreased fire rate to balance this weapon 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Arrowhead knows better what guns you should LOVE - crazy mentality
The devs just love shooting themselves in the foot, don't they? Possibly the most anticipated warbond yet besides Viper Commando, and they pre-nerf a fire themed warbond by nerfing fire damage and the 2 best fire weapons. This will only make less people play.
And both were trash compared to warbonds of old. At least Viper commandos has a good armor passive and booster. This new one has one decent gun that is only effective against one faction...
7:32 Devs: oh do you now 😈
Damn, they made the flamethrower visuals so lame! I haven't gotten back into Helldivers since the ice themed warbond(too busy), sad to see it change like that.
"I'm not a big orange fan either." Straight lying to our face while your complete wall is covered in orange.
it's red, It came with the house!
@@OhDough I don't believe you. *insert Ron Burgundy meme*
devs are gonna nerf the hellpod once they realize 100% of players use it at the beginning of every mission
They already did, can't kill most armored units with 1 hell pod anymore
"we noticed 97% of players are moving forward for the majority of a mission, which overshadows the other possible directions of movement, so we reduced the speed from 6 to 4 and increased stamina consumption from 28 to 41."
@@Cedwig234 "We have noticed 99.8% of players use the same keybinds every mission. For the sake of realism, we have added modifiers to switch your keybinds randomly throughout the mission"
Call me an idiot, but being hit by a jet of flaming fuel shot at you at high pressure would probably knock you back a little. Maybe that’s why they changed the effect to what ever the hell the new flames are.
It is so lame how most of the stuff is just too shit to use, and when it gets good it gets nerfed. I stopped playing a while back for this reason but I guess I'm still gonna hold off until they realize the more viable things are in a PVE game the more fun it makes it.
I think it safe to say that flamethrowers USED to do “AoE” damage, but now they are yet another low durability-damage weapon with the added caveat of being low range, low accuracy AND low impact/flinch.
The anti-fun team did a pre-launch un-aliving of the FIRST content that was due to drop after that ~2 glorious months of nothing being nerfed.
The standardisation team (no weapon is immune to their butchery) are a bigger enemy to the player base than the ongoing crash issues at this point.
"people will get heated in the comments" haha nah bro don't worry, we're as heated as the post nerf fire damage
Just walk up to the side of an impaler, and throw a strat under the massive gap it has with the floor. They walk slow, and esp if they start tentacling, those tentacles rarely ever spawn close to the impaler itself, so you're clear to just deliver democracy in a hellpod.
Realistic fire? my brother in christ that is not how fire works and the chargers armor is stilll his skin, this is a game where faster than light travel exists and you can just stop randomly in space.💀
“HOLY SPEED WALK” 2:29 😂
Anyone remember that this game was suppose to have vehicles, i bet you they were too "fun" and they are adding "realism" to them before they get released
Dude literally has an orange wall behind him, that skin was made for you.
New flame animation looks like fallout 4 flamer animation…. From 2015…
The flamethrower is basically a melee weapon now, a melee weapon that doesn't stagger enemies... Don't say the commando is good or they will nerf it so it only shoots one rocket like the EAT.
Honestly as someone who has clocked 300+ hours (I know I’m a maniac) this update was just sad. Like how do you tease a new warbond, then nerf its main function before it comes out. Then also state that there was more stuff to see in the trailer but then there isn’t. I’m over here maxed out and quite literally almost have everything except the extra armor variants. Endgame has no rewarding mechanics nor do the weapons feel special in any way. They literally stated that they wanted diversity among load outs but that’s not even possible if everything sucks to use. You might as well be telling me to pick jack shit or fuck all with the current state of weapons.
The only viable build I have found so far is HMG, Incendiary Breaker, Stun Grenade, Grenade Pistol, supply pack, and a choice of 2 anti bile titan Strategems. HMG plus stun grenade takes care of chargers pretty well.
Got it for the cosmetics. Sticking to the flame breaker until it gets nerfed to one mag carry capacity and doesn’t do flame damage anymore
lol the random hello in korean love it 🤣
Ohhh man… I’m not a big Flamethrower user but damn I feel sorry for y’all.
AH gutted its effectiveness and animation!
So in conclusion warbond is mostly shit, with cookout as the only redeeming factor. They were so scared of giving players primary and secondary weapon that can slaughter chargers they've decided to kill flamethrower as well. How do they believe releasing garbage on purpose (to the point that they'll specifically nerf core gameplay mechanic) dlcs is a good business strategy is beyond me
I'm not too hot on the new flamer weapons; short range, low damage and no stopping power
The cookout though feels so much better purely for the stagger
And the cookout is just the punisher with a different coat of paint, no?
@@shemsuhor8763 Not really, for some weird reason they gave the Cookout very low durable damage.
@@shemsuhor8763 less damage per pellet, but applies the fire dot
The new flamethrowers are trash, they don’t even kill warriors fast. They are only good in niche situations like spamming a bug breach but if a commander/charger/hive guards come out you better fall back
so the "new" warbond weapons are just less effective flamethrowers for the primary and secondary slot? i only liked the flamethrower before cause it looked cool, not only does it look worse they also just didnt address the annoyances that come with using them. guess i wont be reinstalling
seems like ur constantly popping stims and barely killing anything with the new flamer lol
Hunters jump from so far way and headshot you is the main reason why Breaker Incendiary is more reliable than any other primaries.
Thanks for the info. No way I'm wasting a single medal on any of this. Wake me up if they ever pull their head out of their ass and fix shit
This gameplay is exactly what I mean when I say that above lvl 8 you need a primary to keep the hordes away otherwise you're gonna get swamped. But then you get the people who are saying "try the ARs" they are great..but what they're actually saying is that they don't play above lvl 7
The flame armor needs another effect of some sort. If we stick with purely flame based effects, then give it like a "3 second grace period before catching on fire" or "50% chance every second to not catch on fire when touching fire." The resistance is good, as it will help with not being caught off guard or if your hp is already lower so you have time to react and stim, but... it's still a little underwhelming on its own. Why not give us something a little more transformative or interesting? Can their spaghetti code not handle it?
Quit after the minor buff update and I'm so glad I gave up torturing myself pretending to enjoy the game again
Only reason to use torcher is that it looks HELLA COOL. It'd be ncie if we get like a shock/frost beam type wep