One tip I would have for this type of video in the future, and that is simply because I am a teacher irl and I noticed a trend you have. Stick to one form of terminology when talking about a subject. A beginner would easily be confused about topics you introduce, like "your 3 wanting farm" which you earlier refered to as your offlaner. This simply creates an unnecessary barrier of understanding between you and what you are saying. Thanks for the good content.
Thanks for the feedback! I was trying to avoid that, but I think I still slipped up since it's so common to use multiple terms. Definitely something I'll try to work on, or at least mention both terms to make sure people are connecting the dots.
@@ZQuixotix or just use all the terms and explain. "your offlane, also called pos 3", "your pos 3, also called offlaner". Then people learn all the terms. just a thought
I just played my first match as a "support" (Also my first dota 2 match ever). I meant to play hard support with witch doctor but my teammate decided to go to safelane so I ended up in offlane. My offlane carry also just wandered around outside the lane and didn't bother to farm or stay in the lane so I was confused. After some time I gave up on my core teammates and I said to myself "You know what? I'll be the carry myself" and started farming and killing enemies. I ended up carrying with 11/1/9 KDA and I got MVP. What a funny start to supporting.
Really awesome of you at the end to say something along the lines of "As long as you're thinking to this list when you feel lost, you're probably in the right direction." It's nice to hear someone be almost reassuring, if that's the right word? This video was the first thing that made me feel like I actually had a hope in hell of playing this game, so keep it up man.
Have been a long time Allstars player years ago, and LoL after that so I know a lot of concepts that can carry over to Dota 2, but not deaggroing. I've always just ran if the creeps started attacking me. Gotta try that myself later!
This is a very good beginner's guide, coming from a complete beginner. It's nice to have some direction. I kinda wish this video included item suggestions; even though those are hero-specific, coming from League there is always a general theme to the items and generally good choices. Gold generating items are not in this game, right? In LoL those build into useful support items, so it's a start. It'd be nice to know, even if you just show one example from one guide or something, that would have been helpful. Overall very good video though!
For boots, you often want Arcane Boots for mana. Supports tend to be heavy spell casters, and some core heroes tend to be very mana starved. Later you can disassemble into items like Aether Lens or Aeon Disk (if you are getting bursted). Magic Stick into Wand also helps you keep up resources in lane and after early fights. Glimmer Cape, Force Staff, and sometimes Lotus Orb can be very important ally-saver items. Watch some BSJ support coaching for tips on starting items specifically.
Thanks for this video! I'm a new player with a bit of a lol knowledge who found him self very confused oh how this game works. This video gave me actually the exact summary of what I wanted to know
hey man, i learned about your channel from the sunsfan/siractionslacks tutorial. anyways, there is a mechanic i feel like almost nobody knows and it really suprises me. i watch high mmr support gameplay a lot and i see all of them always do what you teach in this video. when supports pull, they try to take a creep hit and walk to the lane creeps in order to pull. and sometimes for what ever reason it just gets fucked up. you walked a little to far, so they didn't attack you, or you have the stupid skellis from the trolls, you wanna make a x:55 pull to stack and pull, but the damn skellis don't aggro (hope they fix that) anyways, what i realized by accident, you do not need an attack from the neutral creeps, you can use your 500/600 aggro range around your hero, which is conventionally used for creep aggro pull on the lane. So if you just position yourself between your lane creeps and the pulled neutrals and you issue an attack command on the neutrals, your lane creeps will aggro the neutrals, no matter if you got attacked or not. it is just using the aggro range, like when using in lane. This will make you get every Pull, all the time and makes pulling easier and more reliable. and we supports all know, there is nothing worse than needing/wanting a pull, and you mess up and need to wait 30 more seconds. actually lane losing sometimes. Also another tip i found, is that you can draw aggro from neutrals. so lets say your enemies pulled, and their creeps are attacking the neutrals, if you issue an attack command on an enemy hero, for what ever reason the neutrals get aggro and start walking towards you wanting to attack you. so you can actually pull neutrals away from the enemy lane creeps and make them not attack the lane creeps or reposiiton where the neutrals and lane creeps fight, so it gets more favourable to contest it for you and your core. I hope i explained it good enough, but basically it is like lane creep aggro pulling. Use the aggro range to pull by attacking the neutrals, when you are near your creeps, and using aggro pull for an enemy pull, by attack an enemy hero in aggro range of the neutrals, they will target you. this is something almost noone knows! maybe 0,5% of the dota palyers. I would even bet you didn't know about that. let me know if you did/did not :) it is really good to know this, because you dont rely on the random mechanics of neutral creeps. If you find this info valuable, consider giving me a free coaching session? :D i wanna get out of this bracket once and for all. Cheers
Hey! I did know about contesting pulls by attacking an enemy hero to draw aggro. I've never heard about the other idea you are talking about though. I tried to test it because that would be really valuable if it worked, but I don't think it works lol. I don't think there's anything in the creep aggro mechanics that would cause them to run at the neutral camps aside from the neutrals walking into or an attack landing within the lane creeps aggro range. Do you have any other details on this? It's not quite coaching, but if you submit a replay in my discord, I do replay reviews for free to point out what you can improve on. It might take me a bit to get to it cause I've got quite a few in line, but it'll get reviewed for sure eventually.
@@ZQuixotix hey man, i just tested what i said in a lobby and you are right. It does not seem to work. I guess it all was just a big placebo :D for some reason i started doing that and thought it worked, never testing it in a lobby. Sounds super cool ! I will submit a replay for sure. By the way what MMR are you ?
I'm and OG casual player trying to not-suck. And this video made a great improvement. I've won multiple matches in a row with characters I didn't even know
Hey man, I've been binge watching your content and learning so much so thank you for that. I have a question: I recently played a game where I was Jakiro paired with a PL on Dire safe lane and it was clear that he was a brand new player (I'm pretty new too). I was doing my best to keep an eye on lane equilibrium(from watching your Pulling series), but the PL was not last hitting very much and the enemy (Tusk+Invoker) were pushing pretty hard. I felt under a lot of pressure playing in the lane and wasn't sure what to do. They pretty much just pushed us and soon we had lost our T1 tower. How could I have helped out a clueless carry as a support player? I tried to harass but with our PL pretty much just dancing around in the back, the opposing players didn't seem to care much and continued to push foward. Thoughts?
Thank you for watching! Hmmmmm there's only so much you can do for a totally new player that doesn't know what to do. So I wouldn't feel too bad about losing that kind of game. Tusk does bring a lot of lane pressure, but that duo shouldn't be too good at pushing lane/tower. If you see them auto-attacking your creeps a lot, you can auto attack their creeps to balance it out (try to leave the last hit for PL, but if he's that new, then maybe you'll end up taking some). You can also use a spell to counterpush + harass. Even if you end up taking some farm, as long as PL lives and gets XP, he can catch up in farm by jungling with his ultimate. If a carry is clueless, try to prioritize keeping them alive and the tower alive. So if that means you have to take some last hits, then I think that's what you need to do. If you can prevent the enemy from building up a big creepwave, you should be relatively safe. Tough call to make though
@@ZQuixotix Thanks, glad to hear that there wasn't too much I could do there. I was trying to avoid taking the last hits but then that just meant they built up a big creepwave while our PL didn't get any farm and nor did I so I can see where I went wrong there. Thanks
Hey Schmidt, when you play supports with good wave nuke like Jakiro, and your carry is either new/bad or you get destroyed on the lane, try to tell him to go jungle (as soon as it's possible for the hero) and you take the lane for xp and gold. Because in the Jungle he will get every LH lol Important note, if you hold the Safelane tower on pos 5, get a ward and protect yourself, only play in the trees when there are more than 1 hero against you. Only show for the lasthit on a creep, but rather hide, wait for spells, use them from the trees and back off, hide in XP Range. You can see the XP Range by holding the ALT key and placing you mouse on your LVL. Also try to buy a lot of clarities, so you can spam spells. You will get rich and high lvl doing this, becoming strong and being able to get items early!
The advanced version exists! It's a playlist on this channel and it's linked in the description of this video. It's very long and lower production quality, but the information is almost all still relevant (except the video on Outposts, that's probably somewhat outdated after the change). An Intermediate version could be good though! I'll have to think on what to do for it
I'm new to the game but i dont understand how the support is meant to harras the enemy hero because i get 2-3 hit KO'd esp mid to late game by anything other than a support. How do i stop getting killed in 3 hits, every enemy hero targets me and i cant just blink because im always silenced. i can hardly move at all. ganked.
12:18 But the creeps can't just randomly walk back if you go too far... They can de-aggro if you accidentally right mouse click your own creeps. Nonetheless, you should pull at 47 seconds and block your creeps a bit. Good video otherwise.
The neutral creeps will only chase a certain distance. You can de-aggro them like you mentioned with an attack command on your creeps after a few seconds, but even if you don't do that, they won't chase beyond a certain range (technically, they only chase for a certain time frame, that's why faster creeps can travel a farther range) otherwise they turn around. It's not random, but it feels a little random if you don't know why they suddenly stop sometimes
If you ever have any support questions, you can also drop by my Twitch stream to ask live! www.twitch.tv/zquixotix
Explained so well. Thank you!
One tip I would have for this type of video in the future, and that is simply because I am a teacher irl and I noticed a trend you have. Stick to one form of terminology when talking about a subject. A beginner would easily be confused about topics you introduce, like "your 3 wanting farm" which you earlier refered to as your offlaner. This simply creates an unnecessary barrier of understanding between you and what you are saying. Thanks for the good content.
Thanks for the feedback! I was trying to avoid that, but I think I still slipped up since it's so common to use multiple terms. Definitely something I'll try to work on, or at least mention both terms to make sure people are connecting the dots.
@@ZQuixotix or just use all the terms and explain. "your offlane, also called pos 3", "your pos 3, also called offlaner". Then people learn all the terms. just a thought
I just played my first match as a "support" (Also my first dota 2 match ever). I meant to play hard support with witch doctor but my teammate decided to go to safelane so I ended up in offlane. My offlane carry also just wandered around outside the lane and didn't bother to farm or stay in the lane so I was confused. After some time I gave up on my core teammates and I said to myself "You know what? I'll be the carry myself" and started farming and killing enemies. I ended up carrying with 11/1/9 KDA and I got MVP. What a funny start to supporting.
Really awesome of you at the end to say something along the lines of "As long as you're thinking to this list when you feel lost, you're probably in the right direction." It's nice to hear someone be almost reassuring, if that's the right word? This video was the first thing that made me feel like I actually had a hope in hell of playing this game, so keep it up man.
Thanks! It's a tough game, I know it takes time to learn the intricacies, and it's important to not get stuck worrying about being perfect
this is the best guide iv everwatched he makes it clear what the roles dose
This was super helpful as a hard pos 5 WD player. So much knowledge here! Would love to see one day your tier list for support heroes
I just started playing Dota2 this week and this guide has been tremendously helpful. Thank you!
This is super helpful for me.
I played league back in young old days. But DotA is a different game. Thanks man.
The best coach here with the best guides
Best guide for new players that ive seen. I like how you didnt sweat the details and did a very good overview of the fundamentals.
Have been a long time Allstars player years ago, and LoL after that so I know a lot of concepts that can carry over to Dota 2, but not deaggroing. I've always just ran if the creeps started attacking me. Gotta try that myself later!
This is a very good beginner's guide, coming from a complete beginner. It's nice to have some direction. I kinda wish this video included item suggestions; even though those are hero-specific, coming from League there is always a general theme to the items and generally good choices. Gold generating items are not in this game, right? In LoL those build into useful support items, so it's a start. It'd be nice to know, even if you just show one example from one guide or something, that would have been helpful.
Overall very good video though!
For boots, you often want Arcane Boots for mana. Supports tend to be heavy spell casters, and some core heroes tend to be very mana starved. Later you can disassemble into items like Aether Lens or Aeon Disk (if you are getting bursted). Magic Stick into Wand also helps you keep up resources in lane and after early fights. Glimmer Cape, Force Staff, and sometimes Lotus Orb can be very important ally-saver items. Watch some BSJ support coaching for tips on starting items specifically.
Thanks for this video! I'm a new player with a bit of a lol knowledge who found him self very confused oh how this game works. This video gave me actually the exact summary of what I wanted to know
Glad you found it helpful!
this was really well done, i enjoyed the in-game examples and level of detail
hey man, i learned about your channel from the sunsfan/siractionslacks tutorial.
anyways, there is a mechanic i feel like almost nobody knows and it really suprises me. i watch high mmr support gameplay a lot and i see all of them always do what you teach in this video.
when supports pull, they try to take a creep hit and walk to the lane creeps in order to pull. and sometimes for what ever reason it just gets fucked up. you walked a little to far, so they didn't attack you, or you have the stupid skellis from the trolls, you wanna make a x:55 pull to stack and pull, but the damn skellis don't aggro (hope they fix that)
anyways, what i realized by accident, you do not need an attack from the neutral creeps, you can use your 500/600 aggro range around your hero, which is conventionally used for creep aggro pull on the lane. So if you just position yourself between your lane creeps and the pulled neutrals and you issue an attack command on the neutrals, your lane creeps will aggro the neutrals, no matter if you got attacked or not. it is just using the aggro range, like when using in lane. This will make you get every Pull, all the time and makes pulling easier and more reliable. and we supports all know, there is nothing worse than needing/wanting a pull, and you mess up and need to wait 30 more seconds. actually lane losing sometimes.
Also another tip i found, is that you can draw aggro from neutrals. so lets say your enemies pulled, and their creeps are attacking the neutrals, if you issue an attack command on an enemy hero, for what ever reason the neutrals get aggro and start walking towards you wanting to attack you. so you can actually pull neutrals away from the enemy lane creeps and make them not attack the lane creeps or reposiiton where the neutrals and lane creeps fight, so it gets more favourable to contest it for you and your core.
I hope i explained it good enough, but basically it is like lane creep aggro pulling.
Use the aggro range to pull by attacking the neutrals, when you are near your creeps, and using aggro pull for an enemy pull, by attack an enemy hero in aggro range of the neutrals, they will target you.
this is something almost noone knows! maybe 0,5% of the dota palyers. I would even bet you didn't know about that. let me know if you did/did not :)
it is really good to know this, because you dont rely on the random mechanics of neutral creeps.
If you find this info valuable, consider giving me a free coaching session? :D i wanna get out of this bracket once and for all.
Cheers
Hey! I did know about contesting pulls by attacking an enemy hero to draw aggro.
I've never heard about the other idea you are talking about though. I tried to test it because that would be really valuable if it worked, but I don't think it works lol. I don't think there's anything in the creep aggro mechanics that would cause them to run at the neutral camps aside from the neutrals walking into or an attack landing within the lane creeps aggro range. Do you have any other details on this?
It's not quite coaching, but if you submit a replay in my discord, I do replay reviews for free to point out what you can improve on. It might take me a bit to get to it cause I've got quite a few in line, but it'll get reviewed for sure eventually.
@@ZQuixotix hey man, i just tested what i said in a lobby and you are right. It does not seem to work. I guess it all was just a big placebo :D for some reason i started doing that and thought it worked, never testing it in a lobby.
Sounds super cool ! I will submit a replay for sure. By the way what MMR are you ?
I'm 6K right now
Cool 😉👌 See you in my games hopefully one day. The Dark Willow spam is real. Haha
Wanted to try dota. Watched couple of videos, seems like you need a degree to even be able to play casually.
Thanks, maybe in another universe
I'm and OG casual player trying to not-suck. And this video made a great improvement. I've won multiple matches in a row with characters I didn't even know
I'm glad i found your content. Much love man
Thank you so much! Although I'm a beginner this was a very clear video, and really helpful!
Thx for all!
Love this! Your teaching style is very nice
great content. Ty for the tutorial video on how to properly half pull the creep wave with the easy camp. Until that I only ever did it accidently.
Damn boy.... this has such a work invested...
I must say not just thanks, but also... I mean, fuck! This is very well done, congratulations
Great guide!
Hey man, I've been binge watching your content and learning so much so thank you for that. I have a question: I recently played a game where I was Jakiro paired with a PL on Dire safe lane and it was clear that he was a brand new player (I'm pretty new too). I was doing my best to keep an eye on lane equilibrium(from watching your Pulling series), but the PL was not last hitting very much and the enemy (Tusk+Invoker) were pushing pretty hard. I felt under a lot of pressure playing in the lane and wasn't sure what to do. They pretty much just pushed us and soon we had lost our T1 tower. How could I have helped out a clueless carry as a support player? I tried to harass but with our PL pretty much just dancing around in the back, the opposing players didn't seem to care much and continued to push foward. Thoughts?
Thank you for watching!
Hmmmmm there's only so much you can do for a totally new player that doesn't know what to do. So I wouldn't feel too bad about losing that kind of game.
Tusk does bring a lot of lane pressure, but that duo shouldn't be too good at pushing lane/tower. If you see them auto-attacking your creeps a lot, you can auto attack their creeps to balance it out (try to leave the last hit for PL, but if he's that new, then maybe you'll end up taking some). You can also use a spell to counterpush + harass. Even if you end up taking some farm, as long as PL lives and gets XP, he can catch up in farm by jungling with his ultimate. If a carry is clueless, try to prioritize keeping them alive and the tower alive. So if that means you have to take some last hits, then I think that's what you need to do. If you can prevent the enemy from building up a big creepwave, you should be relatively safe. Tough call to make though
@@ZQuixotix Thanks, glad to hear that there wasn't too much I could do there. I was trying to avoid taking the last hits but then that just meant they built up a big creepwave while our PL didn't get any farm and nor did I so I can see where I went wrong there. Thanks
Hey Schmidt, when you play supports with good wave nuke like Jakiro, and your carry is either new/bad or you get destroyed on the lane, try to tell him to go jungle (as soon as it's possible for the hero) and you take the lane for xp and gold. Because in the Jungle he will get every LH lol
Important note, if you hold the Safelane tower on pos 5, get a ward and protect yourself, only play in the trees when there are more than 1 hero against you. Only show for the lasthit on a creep, but rather hide, wait for spells, use them from the trees and back off, hide in XP Range. You can see the XP Range by holding the ALT key and placing you mouse on your LVL.
Also try to buy a lot of clarities, so you can spam spells. You will get rich and high lvl doing this, becoming strong and being able to get items early!
@@grillmeister0815 thanks for the tips!
was looking for this, thanks
man you amazing (: as always usefull
Thank you ZQuixotix
Nice content! Any chance you might be making Intermediate and Advanced version? :D
The advanced version exists! It's a playlist on this channel and it's linked in the description of this video. It's very long and lower production quality, but the information is almost all still relevant (except the video on Outposts, that's probably somewhat outdated after the change).
An Intermediate version could be good though! I'll have to think on what to do for it
Oh I cant believe I missed that. Well, that's another playlist to binge xD
this game is tough for sure but wow really broke this role wide open
amazing video, I legit play 90% better at sup because of our guide :) ty
Great video! Thank you
Thank you!
thank you so much thank you SO much
great guide
Keep it man
I'm new to the game but i dont understand how the support is meant to harras the enemy hero because i get 2-3 hit KO'd esp mid to late game by anything other than a support. How do i stop getting killed in 3 hits, every enemy hero targets me and i cant just blink because im always silenced. i can hardly move at all. ganked.
thier team took down t2 and t3 and even baracks meanwhile in heralds even the position 5 would be stealing farm without taking the tower
how you move your camera like that ?
12:18 But the creeps can't just randomly walk back if you go too far... They can de-aggro if you accidentally right mouse click your own creeps. Nonetheless, you should pull at 47 seconds and block your creeps a bit. Good video otherwise.
The neutral creeps will only chase a certain distance. You can de-aggro them like you mentioned with an attack command on your creeps after a few seconds, but even if you don't do that, they won't chase beyond a certain range (technically, they only chase for a certain time frame, that's why faster creeps can travel a farther range) otherwise they turn around. It's not random, but it feels a little random if you don't know why they suddenly stop sometimes
Muy buen video,speak spanish :D
One more rule: dont pick Crystal Maiden, its so bad this meta
I never play supp
that's awesome
+
hirap mag dota daming toxic
Stop yapping .come to the point "how to farm" Buttons
support sounds like shit in this game
Thank you!