The SCARIEST router bit I've ever used! (How I survived...)
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
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Tools used in this video:
-Whiteside large panel raising bit: amzn.to/3n2zmaR
-More Whiteside router bits: amzn.to/3tNqM3d
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★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★
-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
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★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★
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-Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x
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★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★
-Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8
-Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ
-Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF
-Router: amzn.to/3grD22S
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★SOME OF MY FAVORITE OTHER TOOLS★
-Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh
-Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI
-Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl
-Machine Setup Blocks: amzn.to/3gq7kDh
-Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo
-Featherboard: amzn.to/3DeqHsq
-ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save $10): bit.ly/3BHYdH7
(If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission)
▼EXPAND THIS SECTION FOR MORE RELATED TO THIS VIDEO▼
*Tools used in this video:*
-Whiteside large panel raising bit: amzn.to/3n2zmaR
-More Whiteside router bits: amzn.to/3tNqM3d
*Links promised in this video:*
-Video and plans for router bit rack: stumpynubs.com/product/adjustable-router-bit-rack/
-More videos on our website: stumpynubs.com/
-Subscribe to our e-Magazine: stumpynubs.com/browse-and-subscribe/
-Check out our project plans: stumpynubs.com/product-category/plans/
-Instagram: instagram.com/stumpynubs/
-Twitter: twitter.com/StumpyNubs
★THIS VIDEO WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY★
Whiteside Router Bits: amzn.to/3436Tvz
*Please help support us by using the link above for a quick look around!*
(If you use one of these affiliate links, we may receive a small commission)
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE CHEAP TOOLS★
-123 Blocks: lddy.no/vpij
-Mechanical Pencils: amzn.to/2PA7bwK
-Lumber pencil: amzn.to/2QtwZjv
-Pocket Measuring Tape: amzn.to/2kNTlI9
-Irwin Drill Bit Gauge: amzn.to/2AwTkQg
-Nut/Bolt/Screw Gauge: amzn.to/2CuvxSK
-Self-Centering Punch: amzn.to/2QvbcrC
-Self-Centering Bits: amzn.to/2xs71UW
-Angle Cube: lddy.no/10nam
-Steel Ruler: lddy.no/10mv7
-Utility knife: amzn.to/3nfhIiv
-Center-Finding Ruler: lddy.no/10nak
-Bit & Blade Cleaner: amzn.to/2TfvEOI
-Digital depth gauge: amzn.to/3mwRf2x
-Wood Glue: amzn.to/3mqek6M
-Spade Bits: amzn.to/3j8XPtD
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE HAND TOOLS★
-Digital Caliper: amzn.to/384H1Or
-Marking Gauge: lddy.no/10muz
-Marking knife: lddy.no/10mv0
-Narex Chisels: lddy.no/sqm3
-Stanley Sweetheart Chisels: amzn.to/3y5HDOc
-Mini Pull Saw: amzn.to/2UEHBz6
-Gent Saw: lddy.no/ss2x
-Coping saw: amzn.to/2W7ZiUS
-Shinwa Rulers: lddy.no/zl13
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE POWER TOOLS★
-Miter Saw: amzn.to/3gqIlQ8
-Jointer: amzn.to/3yc3gfZ
-Planer: amzn.to/3mn6BGF
-Router: amzn.to/3grD22S
-Sander: amzn.to/3DdvD0Y
-Cordless drill: amzn.to/3D9ZiIm
-Brad nailer: amzn.to/3gsRkjH
-Mini Compressor: amzn.to/3mvrmQr
-Bladerunner: amzn.to/2Wl0TtJ
-Jig Saw: amzn.to/3zetTBY
-Scroll Saw: amzn.to/3gq9qDc
-Multi-Tool: amzn.to/3muZuMi
★SOME OF MY FAVORITE OTHER TOOLS★
-Drill Bits: amzn.to/3B8Ckzh
-Forstner Bits: amzn.to/3kk3wEI
-Shop Vacuum: amzn.to/2Wkqnbl
-Machine Setup Blocks: amzn.to/3gq7kDh
-Counter-Sink Bit: amzn.to/37ZukUo
-Featherboard: amzn.to/3DeqHsq
-ISOtunes Hearing Protection (Save $10): bit.ly/3BHYdH7
(If you use one of the affiliate links above, we may receive a small commission)
A potentially dangerous issue is the response of a router fitted with a large bit to external motion. Attempting to change the orientation of the router with a large bit spinning causes the emergence of a gyroscopic torque. Human hands have trouble reacting to gyroscopic torque because such a torque is not lined up with the movement imparted to the router, and this can be very disorienting.
I use aluminum window screen and cheese cloth on my router table to prevent saw dust from clogging up the router it doesn’t hamper the air flow.
You wrap the router with one layer of cheese cloth , cu the screen to go between the router and the bit to prevent the cheese cloth from being caught in the bit
@@mhughes1160 Sounds like a good idea. Would love to see a photo of this. Having a hard time visualizing it.
@@randallsmith7885 I have a porter cable 3 1\4 hp router with the router out and the bit out , take the screws out of the router cut a hole in the cheese cloth and place it over the router , cut a piece of screen 4-5” circle ⭕️ with a hole in the center and use the screws to secure it to the router over the cheese cloth. It will keep most of the dust out of the inside of the router , you still need to blow it off to keep the dust from building up on the outside. I hope 🤞 this helps
Question: for drilling a deep hole 6 to 8 inches wirhout a drill press, do you prefer spade, auger or mortise bits? Or something else? Also I would be happy to purchase from a sponsor.
As a novice woodworker, my family asks why I watch a guy named "Stumpy Nubs".....of course I tell them that he helps me not have stumpy nubs.
It's always important to learn from your mistakes, but I definitely prefer to learn from other people's.
He actually refers to legitimate stumpy nubs of wood, he has all his digits
😂
Much safer than watching a guy named Nubby Stumps
Tell them because he doesn't actually have stumpy nubs and you're learning by the best on how to avoid that yourself lol
The conversion to miles per hour was a real eye opener. Thank you. All your safety videos should be required watching.
@Joel on a distantly related note, in-line skates' wheels can have much faster angular velocity than wheels of an F1 racecar at full speed. Blew my mind when I did the math.
Even worse when we in NZ convert it to km/hr........ about 1.6x more.
But I never use routers.
As a retired metal machinist I relate your comments about rpm & miles per hour to what is called cutting speed / surface speed. It is an equation that is drummed into you during your first weeks as an apprentice. Although metal machining requires much more variable rpm the basic princibles are the same.
I guess "speeds and feeds" aren't as critical in woodworking, but I'm surprised they aren't mentioned more often. Even if you're not calculating or referring to a handbook, experimenting a little can lead to better surface finish, less burning, etc.
Agreed. im surprised it doesn't come up more often.
@@benz-share9058 Maybe time for a separate tutorial on this subject: It might not be as critical in woodworking, but a lot of people set the speed dial on their power tools to "whatever", and wonder why they are getting tears and burns.
The feed and speed is far more critical with metals as can be the use of the correct coolant. The friction and low feed speed can kill the edge of cutters almost instantly. With timber in most cases the main consideration is the finish on the component. Low power motors running at reduced speeds are easily stalled as all too often an excessive depth of cut is attempted. Take light cuts at the right speed and the work quality goes up as the tool life goes up. It may take a little longer on the router but the finish sanding should take a lot less.
When you have limited ressources, sometimes using the wrong attachment in another tool as safely as possible is the only available solution. Converting RPM into meters per second m/s using Pi x Diameter and 60 s /min allows to size a bit or blade to safely be used (within reason, i.e. does it fit safely with the guard attached properly) in another faster spinning tool. Or how to use the wrong tool (spins too fast) to carve into heat sensitive material with a smaller attachment.
That's also how I calculated that a 7.25 inch circular saw blade would be at a safe equivalent surface speed for the carbide teeth vs the 10 inch in my 5000 RPM saw. 40$ vs 100$+
I see that wall of bits and think, "cha-ching, cha-ching"! There is many thousands of dollar bills hanging there. Impressive.
As always such great safety content here. Thank you, James, for helping us to stay safe and still make great products.
i've always loved stumpy's attention to detail, and deep dives into stuff, but i'd be lying if i said i didn't shutter a little when he rounded pi up to 4 when discussing the smaller circumference
Would love a series or a few videos on uses for uncommon router bits. i.e. box core bits and joinery bits. In addition to some rare known applications for router bits. I watch ever video I can of your channel. Thanks for your content.!
Any thoughts on doing some James? Or a good reference article?
A thought occurred to me when you were talking about routers where the determination of actual RPMs is guesswork. I'm a musician, and there is another piece of information a person could use, which is the pitch of the hum of the motor. If the hum goes up one octave, the RPMs have doubled. That may help give some kind of general indication, anyway. For instance if you know the range is 9,000 to 22,000, an octave up from the lowest would be 18,000, and an octave down from the highest would be 11,000.
Interesting and helpful.
That is so cool! I had to run out to my shop and try this. I installed the first free tuning app I found for my phone. I set my new Makita brushless/cordless trim router to setting "1" and the tuner reported "E sharp" two octaves below middle C (E3# I think) I slowly turned up the router and found that I could dial in all of the notes for about 2-1/2 octaves including the flats and sharps, settling in to A sharp at full speed. The it was time to come in for dinner so I cut my experiments short
Everything else below I learned in the last hour and it's so freaking cool!
E3 is 164.81Hz (cycles per second). Multiplying by 60 to convert to cycles per minute gives 9,888.6, which is very close to the 10,000 RPM advertised "low" end of the Makita router's speed range, and A440, the A above middle C is 440Hz, X60 , or 26,400, close to the advertised "high" speed of 30,000.
I still need to experiment more to get more accurate readings, and find a tuner app that reports frequency and not just notes, but I'm betting that when I finish experimenting and recording data, I can use a tuning app on my phone to precisely calibrate the dial on my router to speed, and I bet it will be the same for ALL of my routers!
@@christopherdahle9985 Yep! Music is just frequencies, and Hz are Hz. There's no reason a phone's microphone can't pick up the sound of a router and convert it to RPM in exactly the way you describe.
I note that if, rather than the sound of the motor, you are recording the sound of a bit touching wood, a bit with multiple blades will produce a frequency the same multiple of its RPM.
@@ps.2 With further (limited) experimentation, I have discovered that there are differences between routers. The little brushless trim router generates frequencies that correspond directly to RPM if I multiply by 60, but the routers in my two router tables (big Porter Cable monsters) my midsized routers (a grab bag of models found at thrift stores and garage sales) and the DeWalt 611s in my CNC machines, all seem to generate frequencies which follow a predictable curve, but don't "obviously" convert to RPM with a simple X60 constant. Also there was lots of noise and the tuning app struggled to hone in on a particular note. But I didn't do any experimenting under load, or try to determine whether installing a particular bit would generate more predictable frequencies. I didn't plan out a scientific approach, this was just thoughtless experimenting and reaching WAG conclusions. This fall I'll run the problem past the kids who are always asking for science fair ideas and see if one of them comes up with a protocol for accurately calibrating the speed dial on a router using a tuner or tuner phone app.
There's an even easier way. Just get a spectrum analyzer app for your phone. The strongest peak will probably be at the RPM (or an integer multiple of it) of the bit. The analyzer app will give frequency in Hz (oscillations/second), so you have to convert to get to RPM (multiply the value in Hz by 60).
That’s a scary router bit perhaps but you’re right on the verge of moving to a shaper. Your straight bit and featured bit are best thought of in the shaper world.
The right tool for the job.
I personally prefer the vertical raised panel router bits. They are half the price of the horizontal raised panel bits. When using a tall fence and a feather board they result in a cleaner cut, especially in hardwood like cherry that is prone to burning. They are especially suited to a horizontal or pantorouter table if you have one.
I use one of these myself. They are called razor bits.
When I worked at Albright's Cabinet Shop, I had to use what they called a 'shaper', to make these raised panel cabinet doors. This huge machine was a massive table model and completely open. It took considerable force just to push the panel thru to make the raised panels. That was my job. Had I slipped, my right hand would have gone right into the blade, destroying my hand permanently. So I agree with you in using this. It's authentically SCARY!
Stumpy Nubs delivers great tips and tricks every time he posts!
Even though it's about a topic I don't think I'd venture into, it's still informative and entertaining to watch!
If anyone asks about a woodworking channel I would recommend, I've got this one lined up!
Clear, concise and to the point with examples and experience that ties everything together.
Heck, even the sponsorships are relevant and hits home better than most other things done on a marketing budget.
Quality from start to finish, marvelous!
My scariest experience using a hand held router was with a small roundover bit when the bearing on the bit disintegrated. I now check the machine screw holding the bearing on for tightness when I use any bit.
GREAT stuff, James. Appreciate the massive amount of time you have invested in getting us novice (and sometimes 'experienced' guys like me) up to speed with these router tips. A table mounted router seems "safe" enough, that is until you have a work piece kick back and go upside your head RAPIDLY, because you got complacent. The edge speed of the larger bits is also easily overlooked.
The point on really tightening the bigger bits cannot be overstated, either. I had a 1/4 shank, 3/4"- ish bit come out while using my trusty PC 690 (handheld), as I have done countless times. That thing ricochet all around inside the router base before coming flying out sideways, while spinning fast. It took a few chunks out of my left hand before going 30 feet across the room (still spinning), and the entire deal took less than one second. I then took the collets out and did thorough cleaning and slight de-rusting to make sure I did not see that movie again.
Whew, you got *lucky* with that one. Glad you did, and good to hear you heeded the message and made sure it was a one time viewing of that show.
I’ve been woodworking for now more than 50 years still in the shop every day. My Father helped me make “our” first router table. It was a piece of birch plywood screwed to a 2x4 and held in a bench vise. The reason was larger bits….for safety…we didn’t have money for a shaper in the ‘60’s so we made it work. My Dad taught me the speed math for bit diameter. With his craftsman router & 1 1/2” bit was as big as we could go.
Thank James for “a teaching moment”. Nice job & Thank you
Today I have aPC 7518 (yup it still works with all the big stuff 20 yrs) in a Woodpecker table & an Incra LS fence when needed. SAFETY FIRST!!
Good information there James, thanks for reminding us of the dangers of routers. We forget when we use them regularly. About fifteen or more years back I was victim to an airborne router bit. I was in my small shed, 12 X10 feet; working on some oak for a fire surround and using a small sized bit. Suddenly the load came off the router. I had the intuition to realise what had happened and threw the router on to the bench and went into a crouch with my hands over my head and face till the ricocheting stopped. No impact on the body but I could see a few spots on the walls where the bit had bounced off. No sign of the bit ; I never found it till I cleared the shed when I moved house. It was lodged in the small gap between the floor and wall.
I have no idea why it came loose. Knowing the rotation speed I made it tight and the collet was fine. The only thing I could think of was that some wood chips may have got in there and it wasn't as tight as it appeared. The vibration shook them enough to let the bit loose. Who knows. I always make sure its nice and clean up there ever since.
This is a great video. I find it amazing that with just about every tool you buy , along with the accessories, you get instructions on safe usage , except router bits! I've never seen an instruction sheet on proper set up or at what speed to use no matter what company you buy them from.
great coverage, on an important topic...SAFETY.
I have a handheld router, and have used it enough to be afraid of it. I am a Surgical Technician, with 49 years experience. I have images burned into my memory of hand injuries suffered by "woodworkers " due to power tools. some of them resulting in the removal of digits, to include a hand. I have also seen the result of people NOT wearing eye protection. Polycarbonate Is worth taking the time to put them on. The violence associated with power tools, like violence in general, happens blindingly fast. pun intended.
I find your channel a great place to learn.
God bless
James, you absolutely nailed it again! I gutted an old junk Delta 43-505 shaper table that I bought off of Craigslist and gave it a second chance in life by re-engineering it into a router table with a lift. The router I used was a Porter Cable 3-1/2HP model. No speed adjustment (yet). There is no way I would put a large bit into it. After I made my own lift mechanism and turned it on, just listening to the power of that router earned my respect. Some day I want to convert it to multiple speed but it has a soft-start circuit which has to go first. Variable speed on that model does coexist with soft start circuitry. For right now, all of my smaller bits run fantastic in it. When I hit the Start button, it has my respectful undivided attention.
I've had a small bit slip once in a hand router, thankfully only enough to ruin the project I was trying to rebate, but that was a very scary moment. I didn't even notice it had happened, & it was a flat bottom bit so it only cut a little deeper than it should have, but then when I lifted the router & moved it over for the next cut, the bit fell out. I'm so glad I let the thing come to a stop before moving it.
I was making a breadboard end on a router table using an up-cutting spiral straight bit, and it climbed up out of the collet into the work. The cut felt a little strange but it worked, I only knew it went wrong when I finished the cut, stopped the router, and lifted the board away to find about an inch and a half of bit sticking out of the table!
@@thegardenofeatin5965 Oof. At least they tend to lose enough torque that they can't often keep cutting once that happens, but it's always the exception that gets ya.
I never thought about the actual speed of the outer blades! Man that is some really good advice I appreciate you showing the difference
I have this Whiteside (great bits) bearing guided 1/2" dia solid carbide upcut (I use it inverted in a router table so it's cutting downward) spiral bit that I use for routing guitar bodies to a template. I call it the "murderbit". The LEAST bit of inattention one day and that thing grabbed the guitar body out of my hands, threw it halfway across the garage, and torqued the router right out of the underside of the table, hitting the floor and bending the bearing boss on the bit. Fortunately I was uninjured and the damage to the guitar was repairable. The bit, alas, was a goner. An EXPENSIVE goner. :D
I recently had the bearing on a flush trim bit come apart during use. It did not just come off, it came apart! Little hand grenade pieces flying everywhere. Scared the crap out me! And ruined the part of my project. Thanks for the video.
Yeah, the bearings can't take those kinds of rpms for long. Remove the grease and use lots of oil, keep them well lubed and maybe they'll last long enough to get the job done. Even though the outer race isn't moving fast, the inner race is going at router bit speed when contact is made. It would take a very high quality sealed bearing to hold up those rpms and they simply don't use those. If you can find good ceramic miniature bearings, they might be worth replacing.
I have a small bone structure and clicky wrists and other joints. It was the early 2000’s. Spouse wanted a raised panel bit collection ( cabinet panels, certain types of joints) and holidays approaching. I walked into a Woodcraft store we bought from often enough… sashayed up to the router display, picked up a demo 3 1/4 Ho chunk and turned it over. My wrists came forth with an alarming collection of cracks, pops and snaps. The clerk materialized at my elbow and nervously asked if I was thinking of using it as a handheld router. Nope. Holiday gift, table mounted because needed to swing a panel bit was going to take a serious router. I rolled it back over to another collection of those clicks, crunches, cracks and pops and put it back on the display. I left with router, extra plate and four big chunks of sharp metal…
While I'm not a fan of click-bait titles (I understand they increase the click-through rate, making them a neccessary evil) I feel this channel balances that very well with straightfoward presentation and sensible advice.
I've been using raised panel bits for years.
That first tip, don't use in a handheld router, I would Never have even thought about mentioning that in a tutorial. Never even thought someone would consider it, but I'm sure there are some that might think they could.
Excellent video
Thank you so much for all your videos, I've learned so much and am always entertained and enjoy them. But thank you especially for these safety ones. I've used your videos multiple times to convince people of dangers, and you have definitely prevented at least one serious injury.
I tend to use the vertical router bits for raised panels nowadays. Yeah you have to use a taller auxiliary fence and feather boards on the router table but the bit doesn’t seem to work as hard and it produces less burning and chip out. At least in my experience with it. Of course the same safety precautions still have to be taken.
Old Stumpy Nubs would've made a joke about "I like big bits and I cannot lie." But safety related videos don't have much room for levity. Thanks for the informative video.
Good video. I thought I'd add that you can use the SFPM (Surface feet per minute) formula for this application. Every material has an SFPM rating. You can find them all on a chart online.
The SFPM for wood is around 3000-5000. If you take the nominal, 4000 SFPM and times it times by 4, and then divide it by the diameter of the tool you're using, it will give you the RPM.
You can also use this formula to calculate feed speeds, but with woodworking, it's usually manually fed (as opposed to by CNC), so its hard to calculate that.
Great tips as always SN! However, one thing that I did notice is that you really do need more router bits! 😉😂
THANK YOU! I recently bought a 2 1/2" profile/table-edge bit for a shaping job and was concerned about using it safely. As you point out, a bit like this would PROBABLY be okay if I hand-helf the router, but after watching your tutorial, I'm not going to take the chance. Into the table it goes!
Your information is ALWAYS solid and very useful. I truly appreciate your contributions to the trade. Best, Chris (in Maine)
Your respect for these potentially dangerous tools is why you are still a member of the 'Ten On Two' club :) .
I’m a novice woodworker and I absolutely get everything you discussed on router bit safety. This machine and the bits command great respect at all times. Even when resting on the bench or mounted.
One thing I would like to add, for discussion, is how big a router one should be using for those heavy and large bits. I would never even consider running them on anything less than a fixed base, solid table mounted 3 hp router. Trying to run them on an under-powered set up is inviting disaster and excess strain on the router.
There's hand held routers, hand held routers mounted in a table and then the spindle moulder. The advantage of that is more rigidity and power feeding of the workpiece on the bigger machines.
Always found working with the spindle moulder much easier and saver than the router or router table, especially with using the aigner accessories
There are also pin routers and pantograph routers and cnc routers and machining centers not to mention that some of the older radial arm saws had router capability but the common rule of safety is that cutters that exceed 2 inch diameter are not for use in hand held machines ever.
Nice to see you’re still at it.
Worst shop accident was a 1/2" spiral upcut doing a box joint, had the panel secured with a sping clamp . Last cut clamp popped off and i tried to grab it before it hit the bit. I got the clamp ,bit got my finger. Almost cut the first inch of my finger off, cut into the bone cutting tendons and ligaments. Surgury repaired it completely. Have feeling and movement back
Great timing in this video I just received the Bosch 1617EVS to go into my Bosch RA1181 router table for Father’s Day.
So glad to hear there are still people in the USA making quality router bits. I will check out whiteside, thanks for the tip!
I'd call those large bits 'Spindle moulder bits'. While the most powerful pro routers can handle them, using the term 'spindle moulder' helps me think of them as heavy duty joinery tools rather than lighter duty cabinetry and furniture tools. As you mentioned, it's about mass leading to angular momentum. With kinetic energy related to mass * VELOCITY SQUARED, a large bit diameter means the rotational energy at the outside is vastly greater than at the centre or on a smaller diameter bit. You are very correct to talk about slowing down the rotation speed. It means the bit has to be built so much stronger (therefore heavier) than a smaller bit - so risks and consequences from a spindle moulder bit are so much more vastly greater than for a mere router.
A 3-1/2 HP router is hardly "light duty."
Wow !!! You nailed it on this subject, so glad I watched it. Great work helping people understand and use this information. I also like the comment below about motor speed sound and using a music tuner and realizing the full octave difference with a bit speed. Thanks for your effort to put this together.
Can’t say I ever remember anyone telling me to use a router table for certain size bits. Someone did teach me how and why router tables make better cuts in certain applications. My largest bit is not 3” but I have a couple smaller ones a only used in a table.
For those who aren't in your 60s bits such as the raised panel bit James was demonstrating were only used in a heavy stationary machine tool called a shaper. This was due to the 1hp max routers back in the 80s. And frankly bits over about 1and 1/4 are big enough that I wouldn't feel comfortable using without a table . Also I was taught to never go over a 1/16 in one pass and like you recommened a light final pass to clean up and get that sweet finish we all love.
Never more than 1/16" per pass? It would take you more than 30 passes to do the four edges on a single raised panel! A good router bit can do more than 1/16.
I'm with you Stumpy, my rule is if it is possible to use the table I use it no matter the size, one aspect you didn't mention is keeping the spindle and collet ultra clean any dust or oil from wood will tend to let the bit loosen.
Great video - I don't use large bits but I deeply respect the power those bits have at high speed. I'm paranoid as it is with my 1/4" straight bit.
You are a true teacher... kudos from Brazil!
How in the blue blazes do you keep your videos informative and filled with fresh tidbits? I have trouble remembering if I got out of the chair to go to the restroom or let the dog back in! Thank you for your skills and abilities to present them.
When it come to router bit security, one thing that some people might not think about is CLEANING the mating surfaces of the collet and spindle. I've made it a habit to ALWAYS take the collet out and wipe down the outer surfaces as well as to clean out the spindle socket with a soft rag and a bit of solvent (to remove any resin from wood pitch) before mounting the next bit.
I have a scarier one that was custom made. It's a reversed 90 degree chamfer bit, but it's made for loudspeaker builders. We usually chamfer the back side of driver cutout holes to give the drivers more space around the basket. This is done on the baffle before it's glued on usually, but sometimes, we forget, or we need to modify a speaker that's already together, so a guy on the forum contacted a tool maker and had some of these bits made.
It's basically a 1/2" shank with a big V on top that has deadly sharp edges all the way to the tips.
Once again thank you for an informative video. I think all of us have had a rubber bit loosen in the collet not a good thing. And the mass of that large bit that you did the raised panel with, that's some power when it's spinning
I've used a table router to raise panels and every fiber of my being was screaming no. It was terrifying, large bits should never be run at the speeds routers deliver. So I picked up a couple of old shapers. The induction motors on a shaper are much more powerful than the highest rated universal motors on routers. Because of this you can operate the cutters at much lower speeds with no loss in quality of cut . The biggest plus is you can orient the cutter so the blades are pointed down instead of up like with a router which forces the material down against the table. Many distributors like Grizzly sell high quality bits at prices comparable to their router bit counterparts. Finally 1 or 2 hp shapers are priced much lower than a high quality router. I found a 50 year old 1 hp Rockwell shaper for $100.00, and a used 2 hp Reliant for $175.00. this allows me to cut rail and stiles without changing bits. Both machines have footprints of about 2'x2' and can run on 110 or 220 with simple wiring alterations. Safer, cheaper and faster production. Just my 2 cents worth on the subject. Love your videos James, not correcting or críticising just offering an old dogs view on the matter. This old dog has learned a lot from you.
I just used one of these for the first time last week. I have a router table that uses cast iron table from a table saw that a friend milled a hole for a router lift. I took several passes raising the height each pass and used blocks to hold the work piece. It worked very well and was much easier than i expected.
Agree completely. And you are right. Whiteside bits are amongst the best available at any price.
One other point to consider when running a larger diameter router bit, reducing RPM may maintain the desired "rim speed", but it will also increase the "chip load" if feed speed is maintained. This might not be as big of a problem with the three knife raised panel cutter, but for something with two knives like that locked miter cutter in the video, trying to maintain the same feed speed or pressure will result in the bit taking a bigger bite on each revolution.
Another excellent overview. The Jessem Stock Guides (6:38) are also a big help in maintaining control and adding some safety to your cuts. I recently bought a set and really like them. Well worth the cost.
I don’t do woodwork and I don’t plan on it any time soon but I love your videos. Great channel.
The Pentel graphgear 1000 is my favorite mechanical pencil it was a real treat seeing one in your video.
i would love for you to deep dive into shapers and powerfeeders, being it very similar principles as this video you would be fantastic
I had a small bit slip the collet and become a projectile and it was basically a bullet. I can't imagine a big bit doing the same thing. The small bit put a respectable dent in a piece of sheet metal a large one would mess you up. I got lucky that time and it left an important lesson in my mind any time I hand rout. Needless to say not too long after I went out and invested in a good router table!
Math
Given a constant RPM of 22,000:
An 11 inch circumference bit spins so that the outer edge travels at 229.167 MPH (or if you aren't pedantic, 230 MPH).
A 4 inch circumference bit spins so that the outer edge travels at 83.333 MPH. (not 125).
A 6 inch circumference bit spins so that the outer edge travels at 125.
So the example bits (if they each have 4 and 11 inch circumferences) are 83 vs 230 MPH. An increase of 147 MPH.
I was rounding off on everything, including the circumferences.
I recently used a hand held router for the first time. ‘Twas tiny and used for chamfering outer edges…I was scared for my life😅 Guess I got a ways to go.
The day you stop being scared is the day something bad is likely happen!
@@wiseoldfool Seems like that is when the bad stuff happens. We get used to a machine or work process, then pay less attention, then it happens...
I have a pointy index finger from that exact panel bit. Was pushing a board through paying close attention to the bit and hand placement but the far end of the board was knocked aside by a coworker carrying a sheet of plywood and it pulled my left index finger in taking most of the nail and part of the bone in less the a blind of an eye.
You have a nice collection of wood working tools.
honestly, same principle as in machining. they use the actual cutter's speed (i.e. what you were describing) plus how fast the feed rate is to determine pretty much everything. (well, plus the cutter's construction, the material, but . . . ) so this is a really good thing to take into account with routers (which are the smaller cousin to the milling machine). Thanks!
Feed rate affects the cut, for sure. We have a whole video about that. But the max speed of the bit applies even if it's just spinning and you aren't feeding anything through.
I really appreciate the physics you imply as to router safety. F = ma, and routers spin, so they have acceleration
Love the rack.
If you have CNC laser it would be easy to put bit information on each block about the bits. That is my plan when I build a rack like that this fall.
Good to know thanks ! I've always thought of rpm but not mph.
I bought a panel raising bit like the one you show some years ago. I have a single speed router which advertised 1.5 or 3 HP depending on exactly what parameter they were quoting. I chucked up the bit once and turned the router on. The inertia of that bit caused such a huge "recoil" that I lost my nerve altogether, turned the router off and returned the bit to its box. Nowadays if I wanted to make a raised panel I'd either opt for a simple profile that I could cut on the table saw, or use one of the so-called "safety" bits that turn the profile on its edge to give a smaller diameter bit. Incidentally, I'd just like to point out that you can't sustain 3 HP from any motor connected to a standard 15 Amp circuit...assuming 120 V, the most power the outlet can deliver continuously would be 1800 W (~2.4 HP) and that assumes the motor operates at a power factor of 1. Anyway, all that to say thanks for a great video. Some of the tools readily available to amateurs can be extremely dangerous in inexperienced or willfully careless hands. That's an important message to share.
Maybe router/shaper bits should have a hexagonal shaped shaft; sure that would require redesigning routers/shapers to accommodate them, but that could help with eliminating issues caused by vibrations.
Yip that's pretty close to the one that got me! If the bit has weighted blades - beware! The heavier the weight the greater the gyroscopic effect - the less the router responds to inputs. Definitely use a table mount and appropriate carrier jigs, fences and guards!
I subscribe to numerous wood working channels. I have learned far more from this channel than any other. Thank you for the great content.
So timely!
My Triton router while very powerful, and my brand new spiral compression flush trim bit seemed an easy job.
However it was the end grain of extremely hard wood. Table top is 1 3/4 inch.
I took too aggressive cut and the router at speed 3 out of 6 started vibration and I nearly lost control. Damn it was scary.
Table top is 240lbs so taking it to the router table was out of the question.
The solution was trimming the edge with the circular saw, then taking small cleaning passes with the compression bit to remove the saw marks.
The masking tape helped beautifully with securing the exit edge
Very helpful. Indeed here in Scotland I have some Whiteside router cutters. I also have a large mitre cutter, not as large as the one you showed, but nevertheless raises anxiety levels - especially with old hickory. Started to use a smaller 45 degree cutter to take some of the waste off first….always on a router table.
Well, I found tech videos that scare me a little are pretty valuable. What a great explanation of angular momentum without the noise...
Just great.
Wow! Thanks for this. I never considered RPM or bit weight. I am now!
If you are using cutters that big and have the space, consider getting a spindle shaper. The cutters are locked on with a nut holding them down so they aren't going anywhere if installed correctly. I have had one for years and it easily can handle panel cutters and any large cutter head.
Anyone who has a machinist handbook will know the “ speed and feed” is extremely important. I know there’s a section on drilling that can apply, not sure off the top of my head if there’s a section on router bits. I would think so with all the CNC cutter bits.
James, I kept waiting for the controversial approach and it never can, so clearly we are on on the same page. I used one of those table edge bits in a router table with a push block to create an edge detail on some 6” and 8” circles and boy, they took a lot of concentration and I still have one they tried to get away from me. Those large bits are serious business, but I sure love the results. BTW, it was a Whiteside bit and it cut perfectly. Great vid. Scott
Hey Stump. I wish I could have watched this a couple of weeks ago. I took too deep of a first pass while routing a channel for a power cord. The hand held router started to chatter violently and I lost control of the tool. As it fell out of my hand I tried to catch the router and caught the business end. My wife jokes that I am now Mr 9 1/2 but not in the good way. Great information as always.
I don’t know if I originally bought Whiteside because of your recommendation, but I agree, they are a great experience and product all around.
Very good information, these days I run all my panel raisiing cutters and the like on my 5Hp spindle moulder it will run 120mm cutters, I have just acquired a power feed to go with it
Excellently thought through and explained. Very useful. Thank you.
Yes, I have two of those for slightly different profiles. I bought the bits, and then bought a 3.5 hp variable speed router before I took them out of the box. They are very scary, but they do a good job. I still have all of my fingers.
I'm just here to say what an incredible thumbnail. It totally
worked on me 👏
Dude, data rich as always. LOVE your educational content.
Hey stumpy when I making panels with big bits like those I use my radial arm saw. Put the bit on the back side in a drill chuck. Slower speed, plenty of power and a bigger work table than my router
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Machinist fly cutters are pretty scary too. Painting a bright color on the end helps visualize the almost invisible whirling zone of doom.
As for RPM, use a frequency analyzer app for your phone. Hz = RPM but verify on a known reference speed (like max) first as stuff has resonance and gears.
Lastly I could see having two setups one rough cut and one finish. The old bit and machine can tee the work up for the new bit/machine and make it last longer. Even if you have just a table saw bevel it can reduce the finish load.
It's interesting that the concept that you talk about in the second half of the video - tool cutting speed, or Surface Feet per Minute (SFM) is talked about so rarely in woodworking. In machine shops, SFM is everything. The right cutting speed is crucial for optimal material removal rate, surface finish and tool lifespan.
But in woodwork it's generally an attitude of "Full speed ahead, and it if starts burning back off a little".
That router bit wall is next level, that’s so smart!!
Bought something like that back in the 80s...only has TWO (2) cutters!! That was sporty...
I really like your safety videos. You've been there so there's always a lot more than what's included on the safety sheet. Unless I'm wrong the velocities are directly proportional to the diameter. That means the edge of a 1.5" diameter bit would travel at twice the velocity as a 0.75" one.
Totally agree, a panel raising bit is one of the scariest bits around I use in my router table.
It might be good to mention vertical raised panel bits as an option for those bits with a large diameter. They require a tall fence, but have some advantages. One still needs to be very careful with either design. Thanks for another great video. Excellent bit storage design!
Just an idea: would it help (with the micro-vibrations) to start the router and let it run for a minute, then re-check if the bit is still tight, before actually proceeding to cut?
Thank you for another great safety video. Cheers
Hello from a fellow wood worker, most of the bigger router bits should be used on a shaper with a Router collet ( they are as much as the Big Milwaukes or Large Porter Cables which I own both . I have a shaper where you can adjust the RPM Value for safety and for the larger router bits I also have power feeds to keep your fingers away from the work. I suggest 3 wing cutters to minimize the vibration and get a much smoother cut with less to no chatter , John you are the Champ I enjoy all you do helping others do work correct the first time !!
Router bits like the one in this video are perfectly fine in a router table. They have been used that way for many decades and are specifically made and sold for that purpose. You can put it in a shaper if you like, but a good 3+ HP router table works just as well, in my experience.
I enjoy your sensible delivery and helpful insight. helping people keep their fingers if possible.
Thank you. so much. I have a spindle cutter with very large bits but this practical information I was always wondering about; speeds and width of tools in the machine. Very understandable. Thanks again....rr Normandy, France
I have that bit. I once had it launch from my router table like a spinning top from the devil himself. I never thought I could do a 36" standing box jump, but there I was on my bench 3 feet off the ground watching it ping-pong through my workshop. Adrenaline is good. Tight collets are better. Only casualty was my plastic garbage can. Lucky, not good...
Raised Panel Door bit that is...
Great info again, James. No doubt you have a growing audience of CNC users, especially for a topic on routers. Any comments aimed at CNC users as part of the discussion would be welcomed.
I’d love to see a video on any tips or recommendations you have on how to safely breakdown large sheets of ply or MDF and square them up.