RDNA 4 Rumour: No High-End GPUs - What Could It Mean?
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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I’d be interested in a 400 to 500 dollar product that offers a sizable performance increase over the previous generation offering. Neither company seems to want to offer that.
Those days are over sadly 😢
They can’t, at least according to Microsoft. The days of better price/performance are over
Digital Foundry: "We created DF Clips for viewers who want short and direct to the point videos."
Also Digital Foundry:
I was thinking the same exact thing, bless them. 23 minute video's for a "clip" channel. Oh well, lol, I still love 'em.
Is this your very first podcast clip channel? Sometimes topic discussion runs for more than four minutes
Is “set the tone” at $1500 GPUs the “tone” what we really want though for GPUs? Or is it that AMD incapable of producing a $1500 GPU that competes with the 4090?
I think that it’s not about inability, it’s about not working with companies to force support of their technology everywhere, like nvidia does.
Why pay any price when it can barely DLSS or RT!? They are losing badly without their console contracts tbh.
Its very hard for AMD to sell a $1500 GPU. They have never made a $1500 GPU in the past. The biggest thing they have made is $1100 (6950 XT).
My thought process on this topic is that 12-1500 cards are ridiculous moonshot things that are only good if you have more money than sense (native 4k+ gaming), have a purpose like content creation or research. The 80 series used to be a $450-650 card, and now it's $1100. There wasn't a significant price-performance uplift without DLSS3, which has some very annoying issues and limited support and versatility. I would love to see another Radeon 4850/4870 moment where AMD hammers NVIDIA from 70 to 80 class cards at a better price point.
DF does make a great point about the difference between NVIDIA and intel: NVIDIA is no lazy duck like intel was after AMD stupidly overtrusted it's foundries and wandered in the woods chasing clockspeed with Construction Cores (like intel did with Netburst, which made the mistake that much dumber). NVIDIA continues to push and make the fastest GPUs on the planet, but now at eye watering prices.
"Set the tone" so we can get another generational leap like we did going from the 3090 to the 4090. A 70+% jump. And not the typical 30-40%.
If AMD dont compete, Nvidia wont give us another gen on gen uplift like that
Perhaps that further hints at a PS5 Pro. The release of Polaris coincided with the PS4 Pro and was similarly limited to the mid-range.
The PS4 Pro GPU was also a non Rx. But was customised with Rx Vega rapid packed math. Not that it was used much anyway
AMD setting the tone and dominating Handheld PC and Console so yes. AMD aint competing on high end. thats NVIDIA's job
Well that's a nice way to frame it
Whoever wrote this comment also wrote Phil’s ‘Xbox doesn’t compete with Sony/Nintendo’ remarks lol
@@balaam_7087exactly look what nintendo did. they have no luck on competing by making their console as powerful as Sony or xbox and focused on enough power and as hybrid handheld.
"That's nvidia's job" to compete with who?
@@XStreet1985 themselves 😂 cant see AMD and Intel stepping up their game i doubt they even try
LOOOOL, the 7900XTX has outsold all of Arc Alchemist combined.
I just get to watch this one and you post the next clip. You should space them out more. My notifications actually work, because I use them!
Iterative work on the chiplet design to get that power draw down is a long term good thing. Relying on scaling consider how few by the numbers PC gamers push 4K makes some sense. It's only a retreat if they don't hit those former goals, I think.
If amd delivers good value I'll buy it. Had a rx480 and a 5700xt that were each very satisfying and both were examples of single-chip generations.
Last-gen consoles AMD sold 175 million SOCs to MS and Sony combined. Current-gen sits at 62 million units at the moment. The market for console gamers and PC gamers are about even in size. But of course AMD can achieve greater production efficiency and monetary gains I hope by producing only a few different chips on the console side. I assume the next-gen consoles will come 2028. But AMD will go down the ray-tracing mass production route from PS5 Pro on onwards at the latest. I wish them well!
That's fine, I'm excited for RDNA 4. If it means I get RTX 3080 performance for half the price I'm all for it.
AMD's playing the long game here, they're maturing their tech for this gen and will come back to compete the gen after.
Lol, cope!
Now, where have I heard that one before?
"Long game" it's now been going on for over a decade and AMD have only ever lost ground (market share), each generation.
It's now turned into a parody of the fable "The boy who cried wolf".
@@fafski1199 Lol, I can just see a image of a millennial in 50 years time, in tartan slippers, arched over and pointing his walking stick at his grandson and saying "Next time!! Next time lad and I guarantee you that AMD will be back again!!". The grandson then looks confused and puzzled and reply's back "Who's AMD, grandad?"
It's always "Next time!" and never "Now" with AMD GPU's.
@@shellshock3243lol at this point I'm more interested in what intel will bring
The rumour is that the top-end RDNA4 would be multiplies of the lower ones but they are having problems to make the chiplet scheme work. My question is if that's true, what about CDNA4? a) They don't also have CDNA4 big die chips? That would be a tragic for investor and the accountability of the company. So I think this is very unlikely. b) They only reserve the big die quota for CDNA4, not gaming segment because of the lower margin of the segment. That would be awkward and PR's burden. Yes, whether RDNA4 will have its "polaris moment," it depends if Navi43 can game UE5 1080p60 @max setting. And yes, Navi43 will be hot as hell. Anyway that's so sad to be gaming in the AI era.
I wonder what went wrong with RDNA4. It seems to me like making better GPU's/CPU's is becoming harder and harder, heck even the Raptor Lake Refresh from Intel is nothing insane. Progress is slow. This year we aren't seeing big improvements... I assume silicon development is really hard and they're running into major challenges improving each generation so fast?
Was probably designed during COVID which had huge bump is sales, now that sales are down, its not realistic to make king of the hill unless it wins for sure.
They made a design decision, that turned out to be bad and they didn't have a backup plan.
czcams.com/video/7cEKTr70YBY/video.html
The top end was chiplett and the rest was monolithic.
What went wrong according to leaks is not the architecture but the chiplets working together. That's why the monolithic projects (Navi 43 and Navi 44) are still coming
It's tough to sell an enthusiast an AMD card right now and only enthusiasts would be interested in a top end GPU sadly. Nvidia has them by the balls like Intel did about 10 years ago. Hope they can push through and get some relative parity again like they did in the CPU space.
Exactly. AMD needs feature parity first + more performance. I think price is not really a problem. I think they can make a faster Raster card but not RT card so they cant sell it more than Nvidia card. That alone limits them how much they can sell and once they have a limit , the cards they want to build is not possible. Also market is pretty bad right now. Most people are Interested in 4600-4070 Ti class of GPUs. Even this gen 4080 is pointless and 4090 is untouched so the completion is really 4070 Ti and lower. They do however need Halo GPU like they had Theadripper for CPU.
AMD change the game with the CPU, so if matters of time or interest
Well, for achieving parity with Nvidia on the GPUs they need lots of money. And I believe it might be their goal to earn that money by concentrating on the midrange cards a little more since the sales numbers are higher there. And of course these are only rumours so far. I don't think AMD will give up their goals for high end cards that easily.
Well I'm an enthusiast but I'm not rich. I'm enthusiasic for the bang for the buck class of cards. I went from 560 Ti to 970 to 5700XT which I'm on now. 970 was about 200 euro NEW when it was current gen and then the 5700XT when it was just released for about 500 euro. (Converted, including tax)
AMD is in a great position to make a super APU that takes over the Laptop market. They should advertise that efficiency in power and price the way Apple does.
a 1080p 240hz 15" laptop with similar size to a Macbook air with a next-gen AMD chip would be killer.
they are working on it already lol. Next year
I see no problem with AMD not providing a high end gpu next generation. I only buy their mid-level cards anyway. BY AMD not doing so, it leaves Nvidia to price gouge their high-end cards to the greatest extent their conscience allows, with no interference from AMD. Fanboys loves Nvidia, so they'll take it all with a smile.
Dawid does tech stuff made a video about the 16GB RX580.
Pointing out the contradiction between this and the PS5 pro discussion. In short consoles need no upgrades, but for PC there should be hugely expensive graphics to show a vision, so that the most anticipated PC game Baldurs Gate 3 can look average.
They did do this for RDNA 1 though missed high end completely
🤔🤔 All I wanna know when FSR 3 comes out in Late 2023 Early 2024, will it be compatible with the PS5? Or only the PS5 Pro?
I'd be very surprised if Nvidia doesn't bump prices again. They are on a media blitz right now, lauding that they are at 1000% profit margins for certain GPUs, which...in any other industry 200% is absurd price gouging, 1000% is a sign that our society is a failure.
Nvidia (and AMD too) purely care about seeing their immediate bank account numbers increase because that's what Western society is all about, moreso every single year. We're already in Cyberpunk 2077 essentially with the amount of capital these companies are moving around. It's only a matter of time until they all realize they are far to powerful to even have to abide by consumer laws or anything similar. Especially in the US.
More people are buying flagship cards are than ever before. Check the Steam hardware survey, lots of people have 3090s, more people bought the 4090 than the 4080. Even for AMD the 7900XTX is their BEST selling GPU! The common perception on social media that all gamers are broke playing on 960s or whatever is NOT actually supported by the evidence in reality, and people who buy new hardware are the most likely to buy new games. The rtx40 cards are selling very well, including the cards that youtube tech reviewers all shit on. At the time I'm writing this about 5% of all gamers have a new rtx40 or RDNA3 card, and GPUS tend to sell much better in the 2nd half of the year than the 1st.
That's bullshit. People are not buying those cards cause they want to. They are buying those cause they are forced to. Most midrange options are dogshit and prices are too high. If you want midrange performance better bet is to buy highend and even lower voltages to meet the wanted wattage.
People still want cards in midrange with good value/performance and midrange is not offering that on 1440p. Thats the reason you are forced to buy highend.
Based on the current steam survey just over 61% of GPUs in use are last gen before you get to the first RTX40 series GPU which is the 4060 laptop chip (0.90%). The first PC card is the 4070ti with 0.66% around the same as the 4090 with 0.64%. Per the survey total RTX40 GPUs as a % of all GPUs is approximately 3.6%! Selling like hot cakes.......
The 4090 is selling better than practically anything else in the Nvidia stack because it is the only card that appears to provide any real value. The rest of the cards have all been compromised. The 4060s should be 4050s the 4070s should be 4060s the 4080 should be 4070 and the real 4080 should have been closer to the 4090 (ala 3080 vs 3090).
The 7900XTX per the survey has share of 0.17%! Selling like hot cakes.
@@enteralterego7707 Also 4090 is used more than gaming and is the card everyone with no budged buys. $1500 is a lot but for most working people and how prices of eveything else are so high is not so bad.
When I first heard this rumor I understood it very differently.
I thought AMD wanted to put the RDNA 5 technology into the top of the line AMD cards of their next generation. And they would cut short the development of the RDNA 4 to gain some time for starting RDNA 5 early. To, like I said, put it into the high end cards of their next "batch" of GPUs.
it just depends how you word it.
The architecture is sound, the RDNA 4 Compute Units work great and have good performance. They just aren't able to do the chiplet approach how they want it, so the chiplet stuff gets delayed to RDNA 5
Yeah, it currently seems like RDNA4 will be out some 7-9 months before RTX50, and RDNA5 will be out about 6 months after that. Let's see how it pans out
I just bought a RX 7900 XTX and I am happy with my decision to do so.
For me, ray-tracing is very beautiful and very much desireable. Absolutely! But it is also a question, or rather, a concern of mine. For now at least. Because I still don't know how much it will cost me financially, while the technology to run it is still in its infancy and the software side is still being in the process of blooming for the first time, so to speak.
Since, on the global illumination side of it, fully optimised AAA UE5 games still need to show how well they will turn out and how the GPUs (which are currently available) will be able to run those titles.
In the end ... for me ... what made me go with the XTX from AMD was the fact that most gamers do not have ANY hardware to run ray-tracing heavy titles. Let alone fully path-traced games for a couple of years to come. Which means that the publishers will need to hold back on it anyways. Which means the XTX will suffice nonetheless 😊
A long winded way of saying I bought the xtx instead of a 4080 or 4090 because it was cheaper haha
@JoeWayne84 I have a 4080 ans never uses raytracing, no card except 4090 can raytrace good
@@charizard6969 I have a rtx 3080 and play every triple a game at 4k with raytracing the last 3 years now so your full of shit. Post a video of your 4080 haha I’m betting you are talking shit
@@charizard6969 in another comment you claim to have a 4090 haha … I’m betting you have a rx570 4gb card if I had to bet.
Infancy? You call it infancy because Nvidia is knocking it out of the park and AMD cant figure it our lmao
At least when the 480 8gb shipped it was a groundbreaking achievement, nowadays it’s easily seen as a blatant cash grab
After watching their AI presentations. It seems like they are both working on something similar for next gen. “High end” could be something of the past, and cooperative synchronous computing could be the future. That didn’t make too much sense, but look at it this way. Imagine getting a 300$ GPU that’s well performing. In two years you will need something better. What if you could buy a newer 350$ -ish GPU that combined with your two year old GPU and used that computing power and added the new computing power to that. And for the next decade or so, you could keep doing so. Think about the memory speed plateau that has stopped RAM speed upgrades. LPRAM is the current and future for a long time to come. I think that AMD is probably thinking outside the norm and this might be a good thing if I understood the AI presentations.
I'm not sure that's where they're going with it, that might make sense in the Ai space but the gaming space has different needs. I believe dx12 already supports something like that, but nobody uses it cause combining gpus like that for gaming is more effort than it's worth. There's a reason both AMD and Nvidia stopped supporting sli/crossfire
Any remnant 2 content?
Seriously considering a 4080 since it’s down in price
Quality content. (the review)
I really don’t get it. With Nvidia focusing more on AI cards, and won’t be releasing the next high end card until 2025. This AMD’s chance to come out with a high end card with the RDNA 4 and regain market share.
It puzzles me why they skipping out the high end segment
Perhaps they also want to focus their production capacity on the server market?
Seems like the new chiplet design has a multitude of problems setting it back to halfth the performance gains expected, even from AMD.
Also, shrinking dies isn´t the solution anymore, you have to switch design.
Switching designs takes years of planning and investments ahead, and is a hit or miss thing, because competition is always the measure.
So they have a technically interesting chiplet design with a built in option of performance scalability into future development.
That alone is awesome.
Even if they haven´t figured it out quiet as of now, they very well may be on a better path than Nvidia. We will see.
The reason why there may not be and top end RDNA4 is the "coast".
They could fab the hardware necessary to top Nvidia even, but how big would be that GPU? How much power would it need to use?
So even with a top end GPU it could still be "embarrassing".
Wouldn't sell very well and not be lucrative.
I dont see Nvidias full path tracing going anywhere in the near future, we already know that not even the 4090 can deliver a 60 fps native experience and cyberpunk is the only game that uses it.
I think 4090s performance was around 25-40 fps, at full load. First of all, i never would run my gpu on full load. Nvidia is targeting the 1% of 4090 owners here.
The cyberpunk devs also said that they gonna abandon the Nvidia sponsored engine for their next game.
Any other game runs great on AMD gpus, if not better since you get 1 class higher at AMD if we look at price to performance.
The cyberpunk devs also said that they gonna abandon the Nvidia sponsored engine for their next game. Console gamers which is the majority of gamers, are on AMD either way.
Imo 7800 xt is perfect for midrange, mainstream gpu and can be considered a step up from the 4070 ti. More Vram and performs about 15-30 % better in 45 out of 50 games if you play on high instead of ultra.
I think because oif the price range of this high end this generation they gonna skip next one for RDNA 5 there a lot more stuff to work with in a gpu then in a cpu to make it work properly , in the end we are reaching the shrinking limits and with AI stuff growing is taking more time to get the design right...
We'll see in a year
Most people don't get excited about fsr .... Wow ....
AMD just doesn’t innovate on the GPU side. Like it or not, software solutions like DLSS and RTX are the future, and AMD only ever plays catch up to Nvidia in that front.
Nvidia introduced DLSS, and AMD made their much worse alternative. Nvidia introduced frame gen, AMD _might_ release their alternative this year, who knows? Not even to mention theyre still lagging far behind in RT.
Just like how (smartphone) cameras increasingly use software algorithms like HDR and all that, there comes a point where cramming more hardware just isnt feasible anymore. It’s use software smartly, or die.
Nop
@@wawaweewa9159 elaborate?
Bruh as much as i like upscaling and ai technologies, it's nowhere near rasterized performance, algorithms are interesting but shouldn't be the main selling point
I'm not sure this is true given the chiplet strategy.
I would say it's not important for AMD to have a high end chip if; it enables them to push out mass mid tier chips at a much lower cost, and this move means they decrease the time between generations.
that's not how generations work
I wonder if the high end is all going to AI 😢
I hope everyone is ready for a $2000 5090
Most of the Fayboys only care for the fact that it keep Nvidia from increasing prices further.
This will probably be another situation where people and outlets like DF realize AMD's team are make smart and educated as well as financially sound hardware decisions. Like mentioned they have hundreds of thousands if not Millions of hardware units sold through the consoles, plus they maybe allowing themselves the R&D room to make a true Generational Leap in GPU development like they've done with CPU's
Last-gen consoles AMD sold 175 million SOCs to MS and Sony combined. Current-gen sits at 62 million units at the moment. The market for console gamers and PC gamers are about even in size. But of course AMD can achieve greater production efficiency and monetary gains I hope by producing only a few different chips on the console side. I assume PS6 will come 2028. AMD will go down the ray-tracing route from PS5 Pro on onwards at the latest. I wish them well!
Mr dark 1X do u take showers
theyy belive in fsr3 ?
These guys should've seen Moore's law is dead video before this ...
Alot of misleading guesses here, which is ok but alot of the situation is far more clear at this point and thia feels outdated
I don't care at all for the high end gpu's. Good sub $400 cards is all that matters to the majority of buyers.
Wrong, high-end flagship cards are selling better than ever before. Check the Steam hardware survey, more people bought the 4090 than the 4080, even for AMD the 7900XTX is their BEST selling GPU! There are MANY gpus in Gamer's PC right now that cost more than $400.
@@Wobbothe3rdbut 1650 is still the most used gpu by a huge margin
@@Wobbothe3rd Because like 4090, 7900 XTX is a decent upgrade over previews gen.
WRONG. According the the steam survey the most popular cards follow in this order GTX 1650, RTX 3060, GTX 1060. Literally 10x the amount of gamers own a 1650 than a 4090. Your stupid if you think the average gamer spends $400+ on a gpu@@Wobbothe3rd
It is fine to discuss how great the 4090 is but, when it comes tyime to buy an affordable GPU, I'll buy an AMD one over an Nvidia one right now without blinking. The extra ram and price / performance ratio makes it a no-brainer.
I'd rather have them focus on delivering a very good $300-400 card than a world beating $1k+ card. The RX 480 was the best balance and helped AMD recover from near bankruptcy after the failure of the Fury line.
AMD definitely wasn't saved by the RX480 lol.
@@MythionVR It was a combination of factors at the time - Ryzen coming out, RX 480 being a good value and an excellent card for crypto which helped AMD move a shit ton of units.
It doesn´t matter how good AMD GPUs are, people always buy Nvidia cards...I would do the same
NVIDIA got everyone by the balls by going full Apple in GPU. Say what you want about Jensen, he's one of the most successful Steve imitator. He coupled his hardware with software to establish platform advantage. G-Sync might not have been a win, but CUDA and now, ray trace is taking the industry by storm. We can even say NVIDIA is in an entirely different market than AMD. AMD is not in a bad position of course, their efficient graphic chip will continue to dominate the market and potentially causing a mini-revolution in the portable space with efficient machines that can run video games well enough as demonstrated by the Steam deck.
For PC gamers, this might be mid-autumn. That's to say I don't think the worse is here yet, and things will go downhill from here for midrange. It might seem bad now but I suspect NVIDIA's end goal would be midrange customers to be served with 3 years old used 80/90 series card, while AMD cards would be upscaled mobile chips like the dreadful 6500XT. I can only see Intel being interested in midrange.
I will never understand the hardon DF has for upscaling.
After sooo many dumpster fire games that leaned in on it...
What I don't get is that when checkerboard was the thing, everyone hated on it. It wasn't true 4k, it has artifacts, etc
But now people celebrate DLSS, etc and developers use it to SKIP optimizing games... I can't understand
They sell us a PS5 with 4k and 8k 😅 written on the box and you can count the TRUE 4k and 8k games on one hand.
Well, when almost every single game releasing features upscaling options, inevitably there will be some bad games in there. Upscaling is the future. And the past.. checkerboarding has been around a good while
Because it works. At least in the case of dlss at higher resolutions the result is often better than native.
@@mojojojo6292 mate there isn't a snowballs chance in hell upscale looks better than native rendering, that's just silly this is a tech audience be srs :)
@@vtheman1850 Right so ignore the massive amount of reviewers and users who also say the same. DLSS implementation is great in many games especially at higher resolutions and negates the need to use horrible T-AA.
2 rules of GPUs.
1) Nvidia always wins
2) AMD never changes
AMD and NVIDIA are in bed. Its a market strategy consumer always aims for the top product what AMD does target the budget segment. as always
@@qwerty6789x Its the same family running both company on top of it lol.
You guys do realize 99% of people don't buy $1500+ 4090s. NVIDIA has terrible price to performance for anything below the 4090. Most consumers buy lower end hardware. Because of that AMD is actually in a higher market share position now than its has been in the past in a long time.
If there are great $200-$300 gpus. And then a gpu maker releases an overpriced $2000 gpu (powerful but terrible price to performance) and consumers rush to buy that instead then im sorry the problem is not Nvidia...the problem is the consumer.
People need to stop this mentality of "AMD has to do something!" when its the consumer that has to do something and stop purchasing overpriced GPUs (whether they be from AMD or Nvidia)
Exclusivity in PC space is a bad thing, u want AMD also to bring some exclusivity? This is awful take.. NVidia`s used its dominant market share to include on top of that proprietary technologies which long term is really bad for the consumers locking them only to one brand. Awful, i was glad that this wasnt a case in PC gaming, but now NVidia did it. Imagin same was happening in CPU space... Tnx nvidia that now games had to use upscaling to be playble.. i'm very "thankful" for that. Cant wait for the day when " this game is playble only on Nvidia" ..
It's called innovation. Something amds GPU division knows nothing about
I think key advantage AMD has is their chiplet design for CPUs if they succesfully move it over to GPUs NVidia might be in trouble.
ahahahahahaha
I think it comes down to the cost of R&D at the high end. It has to be extremely expensive and AMD hasn't really been competitive in that space anyways. This move makes sense to me in that they can just compete in the mass market space, maybe it'll make their mid range and lower end much more price competitive. Mindshare is a powerful thing, I love Radeon cards because I bought an HD4870 on clearance way back and it way exceeded my expectations. I use AMD CPUs because again way back I bought a Pentium D which was absolutely terrible and I couldn't wait to get rid of it, got an Athlon which performed great and have sworn off Intel since, even though I know Intel products are far better now but still it lingers.
All RDNA weren't high end.
All of them against Nvidia s second best cards
You say we need competition at the higher end but.....
Clown them when they do that.
So why should they bother?!
Also the latest xtx or whatever, outsold Cuz.....
THEY WERE CHEAPER!!!
That's the ONLY reason they sell out!
AMD has always been the cheaper option.
And even THAT'S not good enough!
I'm sick of it all.
They should make some 6000 dollar graphics card that makes you need another computer tower you bolt on to your existing one, with its own separate power supply, just to house and power it. Maybe it would beat 4090.
RDNA3 hasn’t got a high end chip either.
eh, it does, it just didn't reach the target performance because they went too risky on the design. Hence now they are taking a more conservative route
All good for Nvidia at this point. If people don't buy their gaming GPUs they'll just move production to AI GPUs. One bubble after another it seems. I hope they get burned badly.
they wont those are the two hottest markets nowadays and they are a top tier gpu and chip manufacturer so basically impossible for that too happen they already won
4060 is the second best selling card in amazon
If this is true its very disappointing from AMD...
What if they bring 7900xtx performance for the midrange at around 400-500 bucks
@@razzorj9899 When did that happened? 400-500 is asking a lot considering 3nm is not that impressive and we dont know if this is even 3nm. Think of it more like Radeon 7 vs 5700 XT. Just look at NV33 vs NV23. If you still keep eveything the same with no new tech/process it will end up very close. For RDNA4 to be faster than RDNA3 it would need to clk higher so it can allow for less CU to compete with 96 CU, GDDR7 to get to 384-Bit G6 BW.
far from that
I'm not a big Nvidia simp but the AMD cope in these comments is immense
Who cares when AMD have focused so long on budget SOC development for console and mobile markets then pushed the same basic budget GPU design to ignorant PC users.
Why do I feel like Richard was getting aroused during this whole conversation??
Idc ill never buy trash amd gpus