Idk much about Hunger Games, but I do know that it’s basically a bunch of teenagers fighting to the death just to be able to eat and live a happy(traumatizing) life
Basically, the researcher forgot one simple thing, and it’s mentioned in this video. Boredom will turn anyone crazy. Another unrelated experiment put mice in environments where they had access to clean water and water spiked with an opioid. The mice that had an engaging and interesting enclosure barely touched the opioid water after a couple of days, while the bored mice basically binge stoned themselves. Happy mice seemed to use the water to enhance parts of their experience, bored mice used it to numb reality out of existence.
That’s so interesting, and kind of directly correlates with my personal marijuana use. When life is good it’s a fun way to pass the time occasionally, but when life is bad it’s a near constant high.
The experiment is called rat park for anyone interested. It primarily highlighted the role on how society and interpersonal relationships will pretty much always keep someone happy and hence never develop the urge to try drugs. Without interpersonal relationships, life becomes stale and the urge to try drugs increases exponentially
@@minkim6941 That experiment mostly highlighted humans inability to grasp what makes others happy. Creating a literal concentration camp for living creatures and assuming it's a "paradise" because the slaves get food and drugs, that is so typical for humans to do and believe.
@@Ocarus0Cycle Bro are you aware that rich people don’t go to prison cause they own the courts and the lawyers. Kevin spacey, bill Cosby, OJ Simpson, and all of those rich people in Jeffrey Eipstein list never went to jail. If a pedophile is poor the fbi and police will arrest him and take him to prison. But if a pedophile is rich then that person will get away with it. Same thing goes for robbers. Robbers rob from banks, that is why they go to prison, they’re robbing from the rich. While the rich who rob from the poor they don’t get punished cause they own the system. How naive do you have to be?
This study has been re-examined many times, and Calhoun's findings don't really hold up anymore. The issue was even with abundant resources the mice tended to horde territory and access to food. The mice collecting in the middle were being excluded from the tribes that had taken control of key locations. Calhoun's study was really showing that even with abundance, resource distribution remains a significant issue.
@@MrDizukiCalhoun’s findings are only the conclusions he drew, which were inaccurate and short-sighted. Credit for extrapolations made by those who re-examined his experiment belongs solely to them, not to him.
@@argnator Peer review undertaken by other academics as part of their ordinary scholarship. Please don't make up reasons to ignore information that doesn't conclude what you would like it to.
You can’t project your human feelings and understanding of “boredom” onto a rodent. Their brains aren’t nearly as complex and that’s why the conclusions taken from this study aren’t taken seriously.
Calhoun went on to repeat the experiment several times, sometimes giving them entertainment, purposes and productive tasks. While they lasted a little longer than the initial infamous experiment, the result was always the same and all the mice died.
@@KingNirada, nah, he should’ve put them in a much bigger place in their natural environment, not give them task, not treat them like lab rats, treat them like animals and out them in a much bigger place in their natural environment.
I used to work in a pet store where we had live mice and live rats for customers who wanted to feed them to their snakes. They would literally eat each other in these aquariums
Fun fact: That experiment was repeated recently, but instead of just giving the mice an empty box filled with food, they included toys and games and enrichment activities to keep the mice busy. As long as the mice had something to do, their social groups stayed strong and there were no outcastes or conflicts.
That kinda sucks, because it rather shows utopias don't work because of the intrinsic properties of a utopia, but because the destructive inner urges of the participants are pacified. It's like a better prison than the first one, but still a prison.
@@JS-kr8fs I'd argue that it shows that socialization and activity are essential to a functioning utopia. All the proposed dreams of a world where people lounge in luxury and do nothing are doomed to fail, while those that propose constant activity have merit.
Are we not gonna talk about how our human society reflects the more recent experiment? That's why we're catered with all of the entertainment and activities such as videogames, movies, bars and clubs, sport etc. To keep us from going insane and stay productive while the population is growing.
@@jessg3416 boredom is essential for creativity. as long as we are given liberty and resources to be creative, boredom is less likely to turn destructive
You're missing one key detail: universe 25 was designed to be a mouse utopia, EXCEPT that there wasn't enough physical space. This was an experiment on overcrowding. Even though the mice had enough food and water, they didn't have enough space. This experiment shows that urban crowding can be very detrimental to community and that it is important for everyone to have enough personal space, even when all else is abundant.
That and the lack of entertainment, it's almost like having no vacation time or youtube to watch leads people to do the only two things they can do in that enviornment, fuck and fight.
That and the lack of genetic diversity, as in too inbred. Seriously, 2200 individuals from 8 is crazy. That kind of inbred can absolutely cause neurological problems and infertility.
They actually repeated the experiment 25 times with variations in each, including entertainment. Also, the size was adequate, not massively abundant or small. This experiment was not at all about overcrowding, just read the paper he published. He states that the experiment is about observing social behaviors once necessary physical roles are occupied (not a statement about physical space being occupied, rather physical roles such as reproduction, making nests, getting food, etc). The mice then choose to seek fulfillment through social hierarchy because they have no other useful roles to play in their society.
Yeah but they would probably made it so there only the necessary room for them to live and only one giant bedroom filled with only bed and one restroom and say they putted 500 to 2000 peoples in the vault and that there no distraction in the vault nothing but beds and boring things like that so the results would probably be catastrophic like other Vault-Tec vaults
If I remember correctly this experiment wasn't about testing what would happen with abundance, but rather to test hypotheses about how people react to the psychological strain of living in densely-populated cities by putting the mice in similar stressful conditions
That and a big negative of the experiment is that the "mice utopia" had nothing for the mice to do. Like at all besides socialize, eat, mate and sleep. Similar experiments that have "stuff" for mice to do (wheels, toys, ECT ) Those experiments didn't have nearly as many isssues
You are right, there was limited space and the experiment studied the affects of overcrowding. They did not have unlimited space, as stated in the video
one thing that was missing that humans have. ENTERTAINMENT. we got arts, videogaming, music industry, movies, etc. give it to the mice, and change it or add more every now and then, and this would not happen.
@@kingcyclops4079do they have those in the wild? No. The point was to replicate a natural environment with abundance. I'm not sure they successfully did that but the critique should be valid
The researcher tried multiple enclosures with varying degrees of entertainment and it all ended up the same. The only difference being the duration of the rat utopia. Doing a little research yourself wouldn’t hurt
Even then, Mice, uh aren't humans. He also specifically selected a mouse species where males are territorial, form harems, and kill the pups of rival males, then gave the females no ability to create defensible nests (what they naturally do to defend their pups from foreign males) via how he designed the enclosure. Once the density of males got high enough it became impossible to raise pups. Like dude no shit your mice killed each other you made an environment tailor made to do so. Plus he had the genetic diversity of 8 mice. I mean birth defects were gonna happen
Fun fact (sorta): Calhoun's research actually served as the inspiration for the book Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH which would later be adapted into the film The Secret of NIMH. NIMH stands for National Institute of Mental Health which is where Calhoun conducted his experiments.
Legend has it, a good amount of mice founded their own H.O.A and appointed 15 Karen’s to patrol every square inch of living space to find offenders breaking any rule they could find
The space were the mice lived Looks awful. Imagine being in a giant prison cell but with all the food, Drinks, Games, Shows etc. But No outside, No sunlight Always the Same people. You would Go insane.
Honestly, using mice to try and make some point about society has always been fun to me. It's hilarious how so many think creatures with a brain the size ot a peanut can be used to explain human behavior.
Maslows hierarchy of needs are only applicable to humans as mice of course don't have the same needs as humans and they need much less to be stimulated and satisfied
Thing was, they ran the experiment with variables. Namely entertainment, the result was the same in the end but the difference was DURATION of the Mice Utopia.
Everyone who has endured boredome for a long time will know boredom will genuinely make you go mad. I can't even explain it, your mind just starts spinning.
Craziest part is being bored can kill you Ppl will ether yes go mad or they will just start sleeping so much Also the mythbusters has also done the experiment they had to stop bc yeah they did not want anyone to die bc it got so bad
Oh we are already seeing these effects right now, lower birthrates, higher levels of aggression, different social groups, and people attacking each other over differences.
Agent Smith: Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost.
Look up the experiment, the next experiment didn't collapsed due to the rats having toys The real moral is that live wants stimulants and consuming, fighting, and breading can't be the only things moving society's
There was no good life, it was a prison with limited closed space and no exist. The experiment is flawed, and it's hilarious (and typical) that humans believe that a literal concentration camp is a "paradise"
Well, there you have it. What a great thing that we don't have to worry about abundance. I'd celebrate but I'm scared of hitting my head on the lid of this dumpster. So......yaaaaaay!
good ol’ zoo keeper here; learnt about this in college during my animal management days. The downfall to this experiment falls down to two main factors: lack of enrichment and lack of space. Mice, just like many rodents are quick breeders. They’re also very curious and pretty active animals who are scavengers. Basic needs like water and food isn’t going to stimulate them in the slightest, which in turn results in the mental downfall. They’re hot-wired to scavenge food and now suddenly their water and food is been supplied to them. You see how that can be an issue? An overpopulated place only worsened that factor This experiment is a great example as to why zoos need to ensure their animals stay stimulated. It’s why you may see some zoos giving their animals puzzle based treats or even scatter feed their food to not only stimulate their natural behaviour, but to also give that said animal something to do instead of just lounging about the enclosure. Because a bored animal results in an animal self harming itself or others around it. Which as you can see is what occurred in this “utopia”. It’s an unfortunate experiment but it’s given us enlightenment on animal behaviour
One of the most tragic animal-related moments I've experienced was at a zoo where an elephant was tilting its head back and forth continuously. We saw their enclosure early in the trip and hours later when leaving, same behavior. When I asked about it, a keeper told me it was due to mental degradation due to lack of stimulation. Broke my heart. I'm glad that animal welfare is as well understood and considered these days as it is that such things are less common than they once were. Glad to hear from someone who was well trained for their position.
Nope. The researchers must have made the enclosure too boring, or they screwed up the mouse food and/or water... We know for an absolute fact, that when faced with abundance, rodents multiply and take over entire eco systems!
This guy lied about the amount of space, the researchers were testing overpopulation condensed into a small area. He basically made mice live in a crowded room. One fart and someones getting murdered 💀
@@minimonster3466 Aha! So enclosure was too boring AND too small - makes perfect sense now. :P Because again, it's an absolute fact that mice and rats and all rodents thrive in abundance. Here in USA alone it was documented in numerous farms in California, Texas, etc... and in numerous cities like Chicago Illinois, New York New York, etc. It's proven time and again that when given the opportunity to grow, rodent populations WILL grow! .. So yeah, the explanation that in this experiment they were actually NOT given an opportunity to grow (ie: all kept in a crowded room) makes a lot of sense. :P
This was recreated many times with different ways to keep the mice entertained or occupied while they did last a bit longer they all ended the same way.
Let's ignore the whole correlation vs causation bit: Be careful with what you watch on the internet. This short implies it being universally applicable when in reality it's only applicable to a bunch of mice 60 years ago. And even then we don't know of outside factors or even how people would react in a similar situation. Because believe it or not but mice aren't people. And even if this had been done with people under perfect conditions and the exact same happened this still wouldn't be enough to say anything at all about people in general. This is why proper science communication is important. Otherwise people start to believe shit like that.
Plus the mice weren't actually in perfect conditions. Sure, they had an abundance of resources they needed to SURVIVE, but they weren't given toys or enrichment, which all animals including us need to thrive
People keep on saying it is the lack of toys that caused all of this, when it was just the overpopulation. We are seeing these symptoms in our own species currently with our own overpopulation, though in a much less barbaric way.
Let's point out for them to go from 8 to 2200 would mean that a lot of inbreeding happened which could affect the results since inbreds have been know to have adnormal traits like increased aggression, reduced fertility, and the offspring being less likely to survive which would explain a lot of the stuff that happened
it could probably be studied in online groups, like discord. go into certain discords and even though there might be thousands of people in the bigger discords theres usually only 20-30 "chatters" or posters at most and if you try to chat with them you'll usually be shunned, bullied out, or ignored most of the time.
The experiment essentially tested how long an exponential growth rate could continue within a population with an over abundance of resources until it developed a carrying capacity. In this experiment, the exponential growth rate probably would’ve continued had the mice been given proper stimulation.
Not just that... They don't live in one big enclosure with zero privacy, either! This is something like the caged laying-hens pecking each other and themselves...
I read the actual article and: *IT IS NOT A MICE UTOPIA!!!* It completely suffered from OVERPOPULATION. It also DID NOT account for mice behavior at all. Their “enough space” is equivalent to a 1 meter square of space each for a human(who can live like that?!). And not only that, mice are TERRITORIAL. The mice in the center were not there because “no purpose”🙄, they were outcasts. And since they were on top of each other, of course they fought. All other unusual behaviors are clear symptoms of stress from anyone who knows a bit about mice. All the scientists in the research and article-title-readers only used it to fit whatever agenda. Claiming millennial-and-onward generations are like this bc they “have it easy” or other bs.
@@minimonster3466which is scary until you realize that the experiment is stupid and any data it provides should not and has never been taken seriously in the scientific community. The biggest problem is that the mice was given no mental stimulation or entertainment or anything. Yeah no shit they went nuts and started killing each other
This experiment is the equivalent of cramming 31 people into a school bus for their entire life, with infinite food available at ONLY the driver's window and no entertainment or view of the outside world. Doesn't help that he also selected territorial mice that claim multiple female mates and kills the offspring of other males instinctively.
That actually makes a lot of sense when you look back to more ancient history, we started out as Neanderthals and then we tried to grow to the size of our cage really fast. We got pretty far then we split up into different countries. Those countries fought and attacked until now, where we still do have war, we have grown enough to realize the lack of space left.
I would really like a reanactment of this experiment but with different variables. What makes the mice content? What keeps their will to live and reproduce?
it is actually... we are there, killing each other threatening violence and even nuclear war... with all the entertainment and everything in abundance we still wish to hurt each other for more.
@@FaceFish9 this, also birth rates in western cities are the lowest they have ever been, abortions will over take births, there is insane amounts of violent and inequality in cities, there are constant wars, we are a social animal so we are prone to the same kind of break down, its called social decay.
@@FaceFish9people don't wish to hurt others, we have different ideas, beliefs, flags, and our world is organized in different levels of bureaucracy that organize themselves in certain ways. That isn't the people, the people don't decide to start conflict for nothing, they just live and they have their own objectives. And you have it wrong thinking everyone has free access to entertainment at their hand, poverty, dictators, religious beliefs, oppression, and that's not the perfect conditions. Also warfare happened when we had almost nothing in our world.
@FaceFish9 Yeah let's just ignore that human beings have never been this well-off in our entire history. The only difference between now and the past is that media and information directly feed our negative bias. Humans objectively have never had it better.
That's what's happening rn but with limited resources. Pple got seperated into high and low resource nodes and the high resource parts have the exact same issue.
@@roejogan2693 I agree, but the reason for the decline is that people are having fewer children due to focusing on their careers and the high cost of living in many nations
I'd be intrigued to see what would happen if you took all of the groups that formed and put them into independent rat utopia's to see which group and traits survive the best.
They would all kill each other because the experiment had one major flaw: the mice had zero mental stimuli or things to do. No shit they went psycho and started killing each other. The experiment is stupid as a whole
the groups were a single male and his harem of females He picked specifically territorial mice that claim multiple females while being violent towards other males and killing other males' offspring. So in order to do that part of the experiment you'd have to take the single male and his harem and put in a separate enclosure, just to wait for the male offspring to one day overpower and claim the throne of "the male" as he kills off all his brothers.
Someday soon we may reach the boring dystopia. Many of us often complain about what we don’t have, when at the same time we have more than we ever need.
As humans we have endeavors we can pursue Mice don't do that. But they still need to be kept busy with something. Living in a complex world with predators and other animals gives their days a lot of pressure and direction If any mammals were kept in a sterile box with nothing but each other I think this would eventually happen in most cases
Thank you. That was the major flaw in this experiment and people are acting like it’s a prediction for humanity like no. It’s not. If mice could talk, then couple days later when they start having kids, then how would they even converse. What would they talk about.
This makes a lot of sense kind of reminds me to the divergent universe story. Very interesting. Maybe we do need the day to day stress to keep us going.
@@GooseLukeBruhNo? The repeat experiment that actually had stimuli had some of the strongest social groups Stimuli is important, lookup "rat park experiment". I don't think this was a repeat but similar and very detailed on the importance of stimuli
This is just one of many Mouse Utopia Experiments. They also had one where the food was sequestered into specific 'rooms' within the habitat, which inevitable turned some mice into Warlords, hoarding the food and the choice mates. They're a lot like people.
Not only current but past , it happens the moment groups start to form. Countries are basically the same thing and ever since we got them they are fighting each other over the most stupid things. Religions are another good example.
So much of their behavior and biology does map 1:1 on humans. That is why they keep doing all these crazy social experiments with them in the first place.
This was something I thought about as a kid but google wasn't around at the time so I forgot about.... watching this reminded me that even as a kid people can really suck more then we really understand....
This new Micky Mouse × Hunger Game collabs looks great
yep. And it's LIVE ACTION!!!
Looks fire
Lol
Idk much about Hunger Games, but I do know that it’s basically a bunch of teenagers fighting to the death just to be able to eat and live a happy(traumatizing) life
@@MusicalPlayz_YT a lot of people trapped kill each other and survive like a battle royale
Basically, the researcher forgot one simple thing, and it’s mentioned in this video. Boredom will turn anyone crazy. Another unrelated experiment put mice in environments where they had access to clean water and water spiked with an opioid. The mice that had an engaging and interesting enclosure barely touched the opioid water after a couple of days, while the bored mice basically binge stoned themselves. Happy mice seemed to use the water to enhance parts of their experience, bored mice used it to numb reality out of existence.
That’s so interesting, and kind of directly correlates with my personal marijuana use. When life is good it’s a fun way to pass the time occasionally, but when life is bad it’s a near constant high.
The experiment is called rat park for anyone interested. It primarily highlighted the role on how society and interpersonal relationships will pretty much always keep someone happy and hence never develop the urge to try drugs. Without interpersonal relationships, life becomes stale and the urge to try drugs increases exponentially
@@minkim6941 That experiment mostly highlighted humans inability to grasp what makes others happy. Creating a literal concentration camp for living creatures and assuming it's a "paradise" because the slaves get food and drugs, that is so typical for humans to do and believe.
"Games make you violent!!!!!1!11 👩🏻🦳👩🏻🦳👩🏻🦳"
Some scientist :
Interesting
Fun fact: we don’t struggle with too few resources, we struggle with resource allocation.
We don't even struggle with it. Capitalists who owns the means of production just prevent it from happening to protect their profits
@@Johncornwell103what’s wrong with keeping your money?
@@Ocarus0Cyclebecause it is stolen money from people who work hard
@@damiantirado9616 they don’t go to prisons while robbers do, surely ur not smarter than lawyers
@@Ocarus0Cycle Bro are you aware that rich people don’t go to prison cause they own the courts and the lawyers. Kevin spacey, bill Cosby, OJ Simpson, and all of those rich people in Jeffrey Eipstein list never went to jail.
If a pedophile is poor the fbi and police will arrest him and take him to prison. But if a pedophile is rich then that person will get away with it.
Same thing goes for robbers. Robbers rob from banks, that is why they go to prison, they’re robbing from the rich. While the rich who rob from the poor they don’t get punished cause they own the system. How naive do you have to be?
This study has been re-examined many times, and Calhoun's findings don't really hold up anymore. The issue was even with abundant resources the mice tended to horde territory and access to food. The mice collecting in the middle were being excluded from the tribes that had taken control of key locations.
Calhoun's study was really showing that even with abundance, resource distribution remains a significant issue.
I don't think that means his findings didn't hold up, rather his interpretation of his findings were questionable.
@@MrDizukiCalhoun’s findings are only the conclusions he drew, which were inaccurate and short-sighted. Credit for extrapolations made by those who re-examined his experiment belongs solely to them, not to him.
Who funded those findings, Monsanto?
@@argnator Peer review undertaken by other academics as part of their ordinary scholarship. Please don't make up reasons to ignore information that doesn't conclude what you would like it to.
Except we aren't mice. Let's see it done with what science claims are out closest link. Primates. Has this been done with apes/monkeys/chimps?
Daily dose of existential crisis
Morning routine at this point
@@thomasmulligan gotta get it like morning espresso
@@thomasmulligan true
@@thomasmulligannow do a experiment to find out what is going to happen when people get a morning dose of existential crisis every single morning
@@jiangyufengqtps7769idk about espresso i personally prefer a nice 12-ounce can of mountain dew
"Utopia" with no stimuli? That's just an underpopulated prison.
THIS!
Basically a panopticon. lol.
It wasn't natural. I bet if they were in a field with grass they'd be fine
They did a second experiment, this time WITH stimuli. It thrived!
And an overpopulation of males. Mice aren't human, they don't live in monogamous relationships.
They literally just went insane from boredom.
bingo.
You can’t project your human feelings and understanding of “boredom” onto a rodent. Their brains aren’t nearly as complex and that’s why the conclusions taken from this study aren’t taken seriously.
At this point, the scientists need to be told that "Mice are not Humans!!!"
True. I am not eating/killing other humans no matter how bored I get.
the BIGGEST problem with this experiment is that they didnt give the rats entretainment
of course theyd go insane, who wouldnt?
Calhoun went on to repeat the experiment several times, sometimes giving them entertainment, purposes and productive tasks. While they lasted a little longer than the initial infamous experiment, the result was always the same and all the mice died.
@@KingNirada, nah, he should’ve put them in a much bigger place in their natural environment, not give them task, not treat them like lab rats, treat them like animals and out them in a much bigger place in their natural environment.
Not to mention we can see the same patterns starting to happen in human society nowadays.
@@carrot7590, morons, they have many things to do in the wild.
@@carrot7590No lmao, but they do have fun environments to interact with and a bunch of cool stuff to find
This experiment was flawed, the mice did everything they did out of boredom bc they had no toys
Yeah I'd like to see what happens when they actually have something to do
Interesting point 🤔
@group555_ it would take longer, but the same thing would happen. They separate in groups and later go to "war".
@cosneanumatei5117, was the expirement done before, or are you just assuming?
@@cosneanumatei5117Source: my own ass
A box with infinite food and water but nothing else is not a utopia for any creature, its a prison. Humans reacts very similar in those circumstances.
I used to work in a pet store where we had live mice and live rats for customers who wanted to feed them to their snakes. They would literally eat each other in these aquariums
Fun fact: That experiment was repeated recently, but instead of just giving the mice an empty box filled with food, they included toys and games and enrichment activities to keep the mice busy. As long as the mice had something to do, their social groups stayed strong and there were no outcastes or conflicts.
That kinda sucks, because it rather shows utopias don't work because of the intrinsic properties of a utopia, but because the destructive inner urges of the participants are pacified. It's like a better prison than the first one, but still a prison.
@@JS-kr8fs I'd argue that it shows that socialization and activity are essential to a functioning utopia. All the proposed dreams of a world where people lounge in luxury and do nothing are doomed to fail, while those that propose constant activity have merit.
Are we not gonna talk about how our human society reflects the more recent experiment? That's why we're catered with all of the entertainment and activities such as videogames, movies, bars and clubs, sport etc. To keep us from going insane and stay productive while the population is growing.
This will still happen since after all, we will all become bored eventually just because theres games does not mean they will not become bored
@@jessg3416 boredom is essential for creativity. as long as we are given liberty and resources to be creative, boredom is less likely to turn destructive
You're missing one key detail: universe 25 was designed to be a mouse utopia, EXCEPT that there wasn't enough physical space. This was an experiment on overcrowding. Even though the mice had enough food and water, they didn't have enough space. This experiment shows that urban crowding can be very detrimental to community and that it is important for everyone to have enough personal space, even when all else is abundant.
That and the lack of entertainment, it's almost like having no vacation time or youtube to watch leads people to do the only two things they can do in that enviornment, fuck and fight.
That and the lack of genetic diversity, as in too inbred. Seriously, 2200 individuals from 8 is crazy. That kind of inbred can absolutely cause neurological problems and infertility.
They actually repeated the experiment 25 times with variations in each, including entertainment. Also, the size was adequate, not massively abundant or small. This experiment was not at all about overcrowding, just read the paper he published. He states that the experiment is about observing social behaviors once necessary physical roles are occupied (not a statement about physical space being occupied, rather physical roles such as reproduction, making nests, getting food, etc). The mice then choose to seek fulfillment through social hierarchy because they have no other useful roles to play in their society.
Also everyone is ohana which means family. Learned that from Disney.
I can confirm
Comparing humans to mice is hilarious
“War never changes” is basically universal
Replace mice with humans and youve got yourself a classic vault-tec experiment
Yeah but they would probably made it so there only the necessary room for them to live and only one giant bedroom filled with only bed and one restroom and say they putted 500 to 2000 peoples in the vault and that there no distraction in the vault nothing but beds and boring things like that so the results would probably be catastrophic like other Vault-Tec vaults
Except with a barren mental asylum aesthetic.
Criminally underrated comment
Or just modern society
That's why Billy Boy is working hard on it
If I remember correctly this experiment wasn't about testing what would happen with abundance, but rather to test hypotheses about how people react to the psychological strain of living in densely-populated cities by putting the mice in similar stressful conditions
Correct, though they didn't even reach half the capacity, because of the "abundance" problem.
That and a big negative of the experiment is that the "mice utopia" had nothing for the mice to do. Like at all besides socialize, eat, mate and sleep. Similar experiments that have "stuff" for mice to do (wheels, toys, ECT ) Those experiments didn't have nearly as many isssues
@@trevorschack7077AS MANY
You are right, there was limited space and the experiment studied the affects of overcrowding. They did not have unlimited space, as stated in the video
@@trevorschack7077and they couldn’t even socialize too. If you repeated this experiment with humans, what would they literally even talk about?
We have enough resources for humanity, just not the wealthy
one thing that was missing that humans have. ENTERTAINMENT. we got arts, videogaming, music industry, movies, etc. give it to the mice, and change it or add more every now and then, and this would not happen.
Sounds like a Vault-Tec experiment
It really does lmao
Wasn’t there a video playing in the Fallout show talking about an experiment with rats having too much resources? I’m gonna have to go look
lol. i literally have fallout 4 open rn, cant beleive barney calhoun made a vault tec experiment
@@dariocontreras8733 yup, which I'm sure is the reason I've seen this experiment multiple times with in this year without ever hearing about it.
It is
This test had a good number of forgotten variables
Did the mice have mazes to run through and wheels to play on? Entertainment can go a long way and keeping civilizations stable.
He must’ve forgot about that.
@@kingcyclops4079do they have those in the wild? No. The point was to replicate a natural environment with abundance. I'm not sure they successfully did that but the critique should be valid
@@Rin-qj7zt But they wanted to compare the experiment to human society, didn't they? And us humans have plenty of emtertainment
Nope he didnt said that in the entire video@@prettybangtan
That also happened to those space elves in Warhammer. Sorry I’ve never played Warhammer but I’m pretty sure that’s what happened to them.
This is why Thanos didn’t double the resources
"starting population: 8" ... yeah, dude just made mouse Alabama
FINALLY SOMEONE GETS IT!!!
Im pretty sure to make a population without needing incest for a couple hundred years you need at least 31 so....yeah they pulled an Okinawa
@@Gojo_Satoru_215that’s for people though and mice are genetically simpler
8 last names 😂
Middle east would be more accurate. It is by far the most inbred region on the planet.
The experiment was more like:
Here's a mouse utopia, with literally no sources of stimulation. Of course it was going to go to shit 😅
The researcher tried multiple enclosures with varying degrees of entertainment and it all ended up the same. The only difference being the duration of the rat utopia. Doing a little research yourself wouldn’t hurt
Even then, Mice, uh aren't humans. He also specifically selected a mouse species where males are territorial, form harems, and kill the pups of rival males, then gave the females no ability to create defensible nests (what they naturally do to defend their pups from foreign males) via how he designed the enclosure. Once the density of males got high enough it became impossible to raise pups. Like dude no shit your mice killed each other you made an environment tailor made to do so. Plus he had the genetic diversity of 8 mice. I mean birth defects were gonna happen
Definition of utopia might change according to our understanding
@DeepFriedFrenz112 ya but that sounds like America today.
@@andrewalochner which part specifically?
Thanos be seeming hella smart rn
It's the opposite of Thanos
Fun fact (sorta): Calhoun's research actually served as the inspiration for the book Mrs. Frisby and the Rats of NIMH which would later be adapted into the film The Secret of NIMH. NIMH stands for National Institute of Mental Health which is where Calhoun conducted his experiments.
bro its 6:05 in the morning, chill 😭
Sorry my friend 😂
@@thomasmulliganfish.
Fish is love,fish is life.
Ikr lmao 🤣
3:48 am for me
Weird. I read this comment, looked at the time. It's 6:05. (GMT)
Legend has it, a good amount of mice founded their own H.O.A and appointed 15 Karen’s to patrol every square inch of living space to find offenders breaking any rule they could find
shit...
This comment did it for me. 😂
Please stop, you are going to scare the children.
@@WASTECOLAFAN 😉
But then... The fire nation started a war
New Hunger games movie is wild.
Gonna need a repeat of this test for further observation
The space were the mice lived Looks awful. Imagine being in a giant prison cell but with all the food, Drinks, Games, Shows etc. But No outside, No sunlight Always the Same people. You would Go insane.
You just described most of America's psychiatric wards lol
That's what's happening in most of the world, most kids rarely go out in sunshine except for school and just stay indoors
@@AlexDawson0427 American mental healthcare isn't exactly known for its quality
@@azearaazymoto461 and whatever good quality exists is incredibly expensive or hard to acquire.
Except that the mice didn't have the equivalent of games and shows. It was just a lot of space... and food and water.
"Oh this is fairly wholesome"
"Then the groups started to eat each other"
"Okay nevermind"
Honestly, using mice to try and make some point about society has always been fun to me. It's hilarious how so many think creatures with a brain the size ot a peanut can be used to explain human behavior.
Mr.Barney Calhoun still didn't buy us that beer...
The amount of times I've heard this study brought up as an argument from people who are against any sort of societal progress is mind blowing.
not to mention this experiment is not being held in high regard in the scientific community
My first thought when I first read about it was , we all need a purpose. It never crossed my mind that it could be held against progress.
@@anshjaiswal7220 congratulations on being smarter than most
Yeah, human and mice have wildly different behavioural patterns, sure we might be a bit lazier but it is very unlikely that we will devolve to this
@@tomdickson3225 on a fundamental scale like this all mammals are very similar
Flawed experiment. They didn't factor in maslow's hierarchy of needs. Maybe the definition of "utopia" needs a redefine
Maslows hierarchy of needs are only applicable to humans as mice of course don't have the same needs as humans and they need much less to be stimulated and satisfied
@Ilovetosell-hw7bb imagine a mouse self-actualizing, though
Thing was, they ran the experiment with variables. Namely entertainment, the result was the same in the end but the difference was DURATION of the Mice Utopia.
Pov: Your parents asking you why you're sad when you have shelter and food 😂
@@Woadoceanremy moment
I highly doubt a mouse has ever worried about DISEASE 😂
Universe 25 is happening to western culture right now 😂😂😂
That is why Bread and Circus is so crucial to society
panem et circenses
Yes, but this is what happens if you have too much bread and circuses.
@@InternetUsernameI feel like the experiment was more all bread and no circus was the problem. The mice got bored. Lol
there was just bread, no circuses
Bread and circus to distract from the taxonomy of bullshit and yes there is a taxonomy of it
We will fight for resources and we will fight with abundance of resources man we just wanna fight
FUCK NO i don wanna fight shit bro if this happens im stocking up then offing myself when i run out
correction: MICE do all that. Humans are a little, tiniest bit more aware of the world. And actually mostly have a moral compass
@@RandomGamer-why don't you invest and grow more?
@@CenReaper. Me = broke
War never changes
Starting with only 4 breeding pairs, made this an inbreeding experiment, not an abundance challenge.
The down the rabbit Hole video about this is pure kino
The experiment simply showed that groups of mice actually require more space for their territorial instincts to be effective and not detrimental.
Yeah... this kind of turning science into pseudo science sound bites has gotten even worse through the influencer economy...
Everyone who has endured boredome for a long time will know boredom will genuinely make you go mad. I can't even explain it, your mind just starts spinning.
Craziest part is being bored can kill you
Ppl will ether yes go mad or they will just start sleeping so much
Also the mythbusters has also done the experiment they had to stop bc yeah they did not want anyone to die bc it got so bad
Basically, thus experiment is a directly like the future of our species.
Oh we are already seeing these effects right now, lower birthrates, higher levels of aggression, different social groups, and people attacking each other over differences.
Basically the end game for developed nations speedrun to the grave overdosing on dopamine before getting bored and apathic to everything
Agent Smith:
Did you know that the first Matrix was designed to be a perfect human world? Where none suffered, where everyone would be happy. It was a disaster. No one would accept the program. Entire crops were lost.
The mice werent happy. That was the problem.
Earth and humans.
This experiment was the inspiration for "The Secret of NIMH" (NIMH = National Institute of Mental Health).
IS THAT WHY THEY CHANGED THEIR NAME TO NAHMI????
I felt soothed that we wouldn't run out of resources but the thing is that they're mice and they were bored
kinda feels bad to live in the equivalent of the late stage of that mice experiment and you wonder when we go into final stage
This exactly something you'd see in fallout 😭
Moral of the story:
You can't live a happy and good life without worrying and problems
Thanks, Gelatin. Didn't knew you're into deep subjects like these
Exactly what is off with heaven
Look up the experiment, the next experiment didn't collapsed due to the rats having toys
The real moral is that live wants stimulants and consuming, fighting, and breading can't be the only things moving society's
There just sounds like a truism.
There was no good life, it was a prison with limited closed space and no exist. The experiment is flawed, and it's hilarious (and typical) that humans believe that a literal concentration camp is a "paradise"
Well, there you have it. What a great thing that we don't have to worry about abundance. I'd celebrate but I'm scared of hitting my head on the lid of this dumpster. So......yaaaaaay!
That's actually kind of a relief 😅
good ol’ zoo keeper here; learnt about this in college during my animal management days. The downfall to this experiment falls down to two main factors: lack of enrichment and lack of space.
Mice, just like many rodents are quick breeders. They’re also very curious and pretty active animals who are scavengers. Basic needs like water and food isn’t going to stimulate them in the slightest, which in turn results in the mental downfall. They’re hot-wired to scavenge food and now suddenly their water and food is been supplied to them. You see how that can be an issue? An overpopulated place only worsened that factor
This experiment is a great example as to why zoos need to ensure their animals stay stimulated. It’s why you may see some zoos giving their animals puzzle based treats or even scatter feed their food to not only stimulate their natural behaviour, but to also give that said animal something to do instead of just lounging about the enclosure.
Because a bored animal results in an animal self harming itself or others around it. Which as you can see is what occurred in this “utopia”. It’s an unfortunate experiment but it’s given us enlightenment on animal behaviour
One of the most tragic animal-related moments I've experienced was at a zoo where an elephant was tilting its head back and forth continuously. We saw their enclosure early in the trip and hours later when leaving, same behavior. When I asked about it, a keeper told me it was due to mental degradation due to lack of stimulation. Broke my heart.
I'm glad that animal welfare is as well understood and considered these days as it is that such things are less common than they once were. Glad to hear from someone who was well trained for their position.
It is 4:31 in the fucking morning I didn’t need to hear this anxiety inducing nightmare before work
This is why people need to work and why life cannot be too easy. It gives credence to the saying "...weak men create hard times..."
We have all the resources we need in this planet and the innovation to create even more, it’s just that greed is a thing you know
malthus about to go crazy with this one 💀
Send in talking horse to keep him company.
"If they would rather die they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population" my ass
The eldar from 40k tells this story very well
That's what I'm saying
I just remembered that, boredom lead to exceeding decadence or hedonism
So basically the mice experienced the Fall of the Eldar without creating a mouse Warp God.
Other thinking about the experiment...
Me finding it hard to belive someone kept a track of the mice count. :/
Nope. The researchers must have made the enclosure too boring, or they screwed up the mouse food and/or water... We know for an absolute fact, that when faced with abundance, rodents multiply and take over entire eco systems!
This guy lied about the amount of space, the researchers were testing overpopulation condensed into a small area. He basically made mice live in a crowded room. One fart and someones getting murdered 💀
@@minimonster3466 Aha! So enclosure was too boring AND too small - makes perfect sense now. :P Because again, it's an absolute fact that mice and rats and all rodents thrive in abundance. Here in USA alone it was documented in numerous farms in California, Texas, etc... and in numerous cities like Chicago Illinois, New York New York, etc. It's proven time and again that when given the opportunity to grow, rodent populations WILL grow! .. So yeah, the explanation that in this experiment they were actually NOT given an opportunity to grow (ie: all kept in a crowded room) makes a lot of sense. :P
Unless there's another experiment to disprove this experiment and confirm your hypothesis, you shouldn't claim it as "absolute fact".
There is multiple @@crayonsukrou913
This was recreated many times with different ways to keep the mice entertained or occupied while they did last a bit longer they all ended the same way.
Let's ignore the whole correlation vs causation bit: Be careful with what you watch on the internet. This short implies it being universally applicable when in reality it's only applicable to a bunch of mice 60 years ago. And even then we don't know of outside factors or even how people would react in a similar situation. Because believe it or not but mice aren't people. And even if this had been done with people under perfect conditions and the exact same happened this still wouldn't be enough to say anything at all about people in general.
This is why proper science communication is important. Otherwise people start to believe shit like that.
Plus the mice weren't actually in perfect conditions. Sure, they had an abundance of resources they needed to SURVIVE, but they weren't given toys or enrichment, which all animals including us need to thrive
@@pouffling7649lol
People keep on saying it is the lack of toys that caused all of this, when it was just the overpopulation. We are seeing these symptoms in our own species currently with our own overpopulation, though in a much less barbaric way.
Let's point out for them to go from 8 to 2200 would mean that a lot of inbreeding happened which could affect the results since inbreds have been know to have adnormal traits like increased aggression, reduced fertility, and the offspring being less likely to survive which would explain a lot of the stuff that happened
it could probably be studied in online groups, like discord. go into certain discords and even though there might be thousands of people in the bigger discords theres usually only 20-30 "chatters" or posters at most and if you try to chat with them you'll usually be shunned, bullied out, or ignored most of the time.
Follows the demographic transition model perfectly 👀
The experiment essentially tested how long an exponential growth rate could continue within a population with an over abundance of resources until it developed a carrying capacity. In this experiment, the exponential growth rate probably would’ve continued had the mice been given proper stimulation.
Not just that... They don't live in one big enclosure with zero privacy, either! This is something like the caged laying-hens pecking each other and themselves...
Even then they still kill each other given enough time needs a life time worth of activities for the mice even then war can break out
That's really scary until you remember that we are not mice.
I read the actual article and:
*IT IS NOT A MICE UTOPIA!!!* It completely suffered from OVERPOPULATION.
It also DID NOT account for mice behavior at all.
Their “enough space” is equivalent to a 1 meter square of space each for a human(who can live like that?!). And not only that, mice are TERRITORIAL.
The mice in the center were not there because “no purpose”🙄, they were outcasts. And since they were on top of each other, of course they fought.
All other unusual behaviors are clear symptoms of stress from anyone who knows a bit about mice.
All the scientists in the research and article-title-readers only used it to fit whatever agenda. Claiming millennial-and-onward generations are like this bc they “have it easy” or other bs.
Which is calming until you realize a lot of animals think similarly when they’re forced into states of discomfort and kill-or-be-killed scenarios
@@minimonster3466which is scary until you realize that the experiment is stupid and any data it provides should not and has never been taken seriously in the scientific community. The biggest problem is that the mice was given no mental stimulation or entertainment or anything. Yeah no shit they went nuts and started killing each other
This experiment is the equivalent of cramming 31 people into a school bus for their entire life, with infinite food available at ONLY the driver's window and no entertainment or view of the outside world.
Doesn't help that he also selected territorial mice that claim multiple female mates and kills the offspring of other males instinctively.
@@minimonster3466 good thing human are creative with a brain ready for problem solving
That actually makes a lot of sense when you look back to more ancient history, we started out as Neanderthals and then we tried to grow to the size of our cage really fast. We got pretty far then we split up into different countries. Those countries fought and attacked until now, where we still do have war, we have grown enough to realize the lack of space left.
I would really like a reanactment of this experiment but with different variables. What makes the mice content? What keeps their will to live and reproduce?
This made me think that our ancestors might not be apes but mice 🐭
thats because we probably share a common ancestor with both
Its both. Apes came from a very ancient form of mice.
@@00chla50 and vice versa
@@00chla50 no
@@00chla50alright what's the name of it
Everyone knows a bunch of mice in a white padded room is a great example of how human society works
it is actually... we are there, killing each other threatening violence and even nuclear war... with all the entertainment and everything in abundance we still wish to hurt each other for more.
@@FaceFish9 this, also birth rates in western cities are the lowest they have ever been, abortions will over take births, there is insane amounts of violent and inequality in cities, there are constant wars, we are a social animal so we are prone to the same kind of break down, its called social decay.
@@FaceFish9So politicians represent all their people? Wait til the dictators and despots hear this..
@@FaceFish9people don't wish to hurt others, we have different ideas, beliefs, flags, and our world is organized in different levels of bureaucracy that organize themselves in certain ways. That isn't the people, the people don't decide to start conflict for nothing, they just live and they have their own objectives.
And you have it wrong thinking everyone has free access to entertainment at their hand, poverty, dictators, religious beliefs, oppression, and that's not the perfect conditions.
Also warfare happened when we had almost nothing in our world.
@FaceFish9 Yeah let's just ignore that human beings have never been this well-off in our entire history. The only difference between now and the past is that media and information directly feed our negative bias. Humans objectively have never had it better.
it astonishes and scares me that people think we have any resource
problems
This is exactly why Thanos didn’t just snap a double abundance of food and resources.
Bro just called everyone on earth a rodent💀
Which we obviously aren't, because.. uh.. because.. hmm.
"Finally someone gets it!"
-Thanos
"essentially a mice utopia" is a bit of a stretch when describing the initial conditions.
we dont have that issue today. we just dont allocate resources properly
I think it's just because sometimes mice go hard like that. They're not necessarily the most intelligent things
Yea. Mice aren't a perfect human analog. Also to note, did the mice have sufficient recreation? Mice need some level of mental stimulation.
Well now, we HAVE to make a TV show like this.
Maybe with RedWall characters?
Hey! That sounds oddly familiar...!
That's what's happening rn but with limited resources. Pple got seperated into high and low resource nodes and the high resource parts have the exact same issue.
Apparently Elon musk is right about population collapse then.
Yes he's right. And it's already happening. Most Western countries now grow only because of immigration. The natural growth is often negative.
This theory assumes all participants live in utopia. The concern of declining populations only apply to developed nations
@@oliverkim6610 and that's why it's already happening in the West
@@roejogan2693 I agree, but the reason for the decline is that people are having fewer children due to focusing on their careers and the high cost of living in many nations
lmao
I'd be intrigued to see what would happen if you took all of the groups that formed and put them into independent rat utopia's to see which group and traits survive the best.
They would all kill each other because the experiment had one major flaw: the mice had zero mental stimuli or things to do. No shit they went psycho and started killing each other. The experiment is stupid as a whole
the groups were a single male and his harem of females
He picked specifically territorial mice that claim multiple females while being violent towards other males and killing other males' offspring.
So in order to do that part of the experiment you'd have to take the single male and his harem and put in a separate enclosure, just to wait for the male offspring to one day overpower and claim the throne of "the male" as he kills off all his brothers.
Forcing even more inbreeding? 😂
our struggle isn’t with lack of resources, it’s distribution of resources
“About that beer I owed ya”
Someday soon we may reach the boring dystopia. Many of us often complain about what we don’t have, when at the same time we have more than we ever need.
As humans we have endeavors we can pursue
Mice don't do that. But they still need to be kept busy with something. Living in a complex world with predators and other animals gives their days a lot of pressure and direction
If any mammals were kept in a sterile box with nothing but each other I think this would eventually happen in most cases
Thank you. That was the major flaw in this experiment and people are acting like it’s a prediction for humanity like no. It’s not. If mice could talk, then couple days later when they start having kids, then how would they even converse. What would they talk about.
Moral of the story: No matter how good things are we will screw it up somehow
This is why temperate climates are so violent. They don’t have to struggle against the weather and cooperate to stay alive in the cold.
This makes a lot of sense kind of reminds me to the divergent universe story. Very interesting. Maybe we do need the day to day stress to keep us going.
Maybe any stimuli might be useful
These mice werent in utopia they were in prison.
@@tommo3190 that’s a good point. Like inmates, they also do not have to worry about food, water or shelter.
@@tommo3190 the experiment was repeated with stimuli, same results
If you don’t have stressors that make you think and work etc you will create your own.
@@GooseLukeBruhNo? The repeat experiment that actually had stimuli had some of the strongest social groups
Stimuli is important, lookup "rat park experiment". I don't think this was a repeat but similar and very detailed on the importance of stimuli
This is just one of many Mouse Utopia Experiments. They also had one where the food was sequestered into specific 'rooms' within the habitat, which inevitable turned some mice into Warlords, hoarding the food and the choice mates. They're a lot like people.
A world without misery is a world without motivation, innovation and evolution
"the hardest choices require the strongest of wills" - rat scientist
There's a striking parallel with our current societal dynamics.
That's what I was thinking.
Glad someone else noticed
Not only current but past , it happens the moment groups start to form. Countries are basically the same thing and ever since we got them they are fighting each other over the most stupid things. Religions are another good example.
Exactly
Damn yes, humans have never formed groups and waged wars against each other in human history before this current age.
Interesting experiment, however we must remember
Mice ≠ Humans
well look what happens in modern Society and you see some crazy similaritys
So much of their behavior and biology does map 1:1 on humans. That is why they keep doing all these crazy social experiments with them in the first place.
That's what's happening right now we have over abundance of everything. We're not exceeding our resources not even close.
No problem, we overcame that threat with the invention of video games and the internet. The resources to competete for because virtual.
This was something I thought about as a kid but google wasn't around at the time so I forgot about.... watching this reminded me that even as a kid people can really suck more then we really understand....