The Starships & Vehicles of Dune
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- Äas pĆidĂĄn 21. 10. 2021
- With the situation on Arrakis escalating, the Templin Institute makes some observations and speculates on the starships and vehicles deployed by each side.
00:40 | Spacing Guild Heighliner
02:12 | House Atreides Frigate
02:56 | House Harkonnen Frigate
03:33 | Imperial Frigate?
03:57 | Spacing Guild Frigate?
04:43 | Ornithopters
05:24 | House Atredies Ornithopter
05:59 | House Harkonnen Ornithopter
06:29 | Unknown Ornithopter
07:12 | House Harkonnen Troop Transport
07:48 | House Atredies Spice Harvester
08:40 | House Harkonnen Spice Harvester
10:09 | Carryall
11:02 | House Atreides Fighter
11:22 | Bene Gesserit Transport
11:35 | Arrakis Spice Transport
#dune #dunemovie
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Are y'all gonna do a video on the viltrumite empire?
The earth under Aku would be good too
You sound to deliberate, a stressed and forced tone. Try better next time
"Carry alls" are already one giant jet engine that it uses to move and get to the harvester quickly. Balloon is just using jet exhaust to counter the weight of full harvester with the lifting body of the balloon. You're wasting exhaust either way. This provides extra lift, saves fuel, allows you to just hang up there without spending all fuel waiting for worm to leave and make transport smaller then _3 times the size of the harvester_ that you would need otherwise.
I guess irl counterpart is locomoskyner or whatever that thing was called. Or just usual hot air balloons:D
As for dropships, inflatable air breaks and heat shields do exist.
Thx for the spoiler warning. I will be back
Was that a fog horn? Why is there a moose stampede?
The Expanse: We Need to Design Ships with scientifically accurate and practical layouts. House Atreides: BRUTALISM IN S P A C E
As a big fan of brutalism I find this movie incredible awesome, It just blow my mind :D
@@pawelt.5385 exactly, as soon as I saw the ships I was like...yes.
expanse is millennia before dune. Give them time !
But its space, there is no friction, you can have any shape you want, as long its STRONG
@@jakobinobles3263 yeah. The point of the design might be for them to use as much space as possible
And its easier to split space in a box shapee object
The reason for the balloons actually makes sense. To have anti-grav tech you need the holtzman effect. the Holtzman effect makes worms angry which is why harvesters do not have shields nor to carry-alls
Ah shoot! You beat me to it. Well played!
Arrakis have frequent sandstorms, these storms are very violent, and I would not like to be dependent on a balloon in a storm, In fact this alone makes it a very bad design.
@@Anacronian well, if happened to get cought by the arrakis storm, you would fucked with or without balloons so...
@@Anacronian technically you would only need the balloons when setting down or liftoff you could use Anti-grav system for the actual transport faze of the trip to the spice or the return, so the storms become mute
I'm happy I wasn't the only one who knew this
Navigators cannot fold anything due to their mutations, much less space. Making the FTL trip is up to the heighliner's hardware. What navigators do is calculating the transit vector between the departure and arrival points, foreseeing the gravitational effects of any body between them and guiding the ship through them. To do that, they have been so mutated and retrained they are barely human, having what amounts to some limited prescience. Essentially, they are living navigation computers, since thinking machines are forbidden under the Buttlerian laws, not FTL engines.
I think I should be forgiven for being confused about this point.
@@TemplinInstitute *No*
@@TemplinInstitute Since FgM isn't quite accurate, you're definitely forgiven. Navigators have advanced prescience, picking the safe futures for their ships. And they are the ones folding space, or at least can do so themselves for their ships. And they also turn their prescience on political matters, looking for threats to themselves and spice production. Yes, they're doing the navigation but they're still more than just that.
@@archapmangcmg I think that's the best explanation I have seen so far about the navigators' functions - "picking the safe futures for their ships". And that "future" also happens to correspond to political matters as well as you said. :)
A common misconception about Dune is that the Navigators themselves fold space.
The space is folded by FTL engines using Holtzman effect.
The Navigators use their precognitive abilities, gained by use of Spice, to chart a course and guide a ship through vastness of space, full of matter, black holes and other gravitation anomalies.
Without advanced computers and AI, which are forbidden in Imperium, every 10th ship would be lost in space.
As a fan of the books & videogames, i have to say= they absolutely nailed the Ornithopters perfectly for me. The spice harvester is also amazing. the carry-all is a bit getting used to but i like it
What was it about the carry-all you need to get used to? The balloons?
Dude, they nailed everything for me. Even the Voice was just *chefs kiss.
@@TemplinInstitute Yep! The balloons! My first visual of dune was trough the C&C game developers Westwood, and if my memory serves my right, these were all in the "flyer" category, aka Jet engines. Especially Dune 2000 with those 2 big engines on the wings.
So when i was in the movies and the carry all balloons popped i was bedazzled! Not negativly, i think they are nice, but it was not what i expected.
@matthew hart Oh yes, yes yes. And the portayel of the benne gesserit, the sardaukar, just ....magnificent. Now i wanna reread all the books again. But one way i dont, just so i can be amazed in the next movie
for me the balloons nailed it, first sight of the docking system was nah, but after three times in film i say yes has to look like...
I agree that the original "vectored thrust" design from the games is pretty dang iconic, but I think Templin's explanation of the balloons value is spot on. Lift via buoyancy is significantly more economical than lift via thrust. The carry-alls have to function in two very different modes of operation. When transiting TO a harvester, they need only support their own weight and they need to move FAST (when wormsign is reported). Thrust/levitation are the most sensible in that situation.
When hauling a harvester though, they then need to lift up to two or three times their own weight, but speed isn't as much an issue once the they reach minimum safe altitude from worms.
If machines' designers had tried to build a vehicle that could realistically operate in both modes using thrust exclusively, I imagine the engines and fuel reserves would be enormous.
Of course, this all falls apart if antigravity systems are viable for large ships... I'm not familiar enough with the lore to answer that, unfortunately. The frigates of the great houses certainly seem to use it, as do the briefly glimpsed processed spice transports, which would seem to indicate its absence in planet-bound vehicles ISN'T a matter of it being a technology closely guarded by the Spacing Guild.
If I recall my Dune lore correctly, there is something called the Holtzman Effect, and it enables a lot of the higher-tech stuff in the setting like personal defensive shields, anti-gravity suspensors, and the space-folding that enables faster-than-light travel (the Navigators don't actually fold the space so much as they guide the ship through those folds by means of narrow-focused prescience.) However, the Holtzman fields these devices generate have a tendency to aggravate sandworms (who are infamously territorial already,) making them impractical to use across Arrakis where turning on a strong Holtzman field is asking for a worm attack.
That said, the capital city of Arrakeen is located on a large expanse of bedrock and surrounded by a mountain range. It was built there because it was one of the few places on the planet that could support a large settlement where the worms couldn't/wouldn't go. That's the place where it's probably safe for them to activate a Holtzman suspensor driven cargo barge to lift the refined spice off the surface and into orbit. Conversely, out on the sands, they'd want to use other technology (like balloons) when trying to elevate spice harvesters away from attacking sand worms. They probably could lift it with a Holtzman suspensor instead, but that would keep the worms coming and trying to attack until it went away. Lifting it off the sand with balloons is probably the more practical option if they just need to wait some hours for the worm to get bored and wander off.
I would respectfully disagree. Balloons are slow and VERY susceptible to storm damage in the desert. Considering a Dune sandstorm can rip the flesh off of people and scour metal (basically the only thing that can survive a storm is a worm) then a balloon would not be good to be hanging off watching one approaching. As for worms. Well, the Carryall is there to get the harvesters up and away from danger fast. The worm is already incoming when the Carryall goes to pick up the harvester so whether it uses a suspensor or not the worm is coming to kill you all. Plus once off the planet surface then the suspensors no longer attract worms.
@@ukmediawarrior On the other hand, it might be easier to create a tougher balloon skin than adjust the energies of a specific energy type. And once the balloons have raised the harvester (or whatever) off the ground, thrusters and the like can take care of navigation.
@@Sephiroth144 True, but of course if there was such a material that could weather the storm they would use it for everything, and they don't because such a material does not exist in this universe:) But even if it did you are left with how slow a balloon is to get the harvester off the planet surface when a worm is barrelling down on you:)
@@ukmediawarrior Really- thousands of years of research into materials and "a material doesn't exist"- you remember we're talking about a setting where humans are mutated with seasoning, er, spice to being warping entities that can see the future, right? I could see developing a more durable fabric or lighter kevlar before we developed psychic teleporters. =p
Plus, the other, noisier technologies probably have the problem of attracting the worms; inflating the balloons, even if slower, are (it would seem) less likely to guide them in.
@@ukmediawarrior yes. because obviously these are the same delicate hot air/helium balloons we use today and not advanced graphene skinned self inflatables 10,000 odd yrs from now đ€ŠđŸââïž
I love how they didnât go overboard with the designs. Villeneuve along with the art director couldâve used their creative liberties in their respective positions to go all in with all sorts of high-tech craziness but instead kept it simple, gritty, dirty and absolutely believable.
This was also aesthetically apparent in Blade Runner 2049, which shows a distinctive and coherent vision from Villeneuve to keep everything convincing.
Part of it as well is that even computers as simple as a calculator are heresy everything is very mechanical and very human driven.
No-ships/chambers weren't invented until Leto's time 3500 later so that ship is definitely not one.
incorrect. Harkonnen had at least 1 No-Ship and No-Chamber at their disposal, its that the test No-Ship ate shit due to Rabban Harkonnen being a shit pilot and crashed and was burned, whilst the No-Chamber tech was buried by the Harkonnens.
The OG No-Ship shows up in Dune: House Atreides Prelude to Dune, along with the original No-Chamber, both built by a Richesian scientist who, surprise surprise, got blown the hell up by Vladimir during a war.
@@Shinzon23 The Brian Herbert novels don't count
@@nightshade2313 funny, because everyone else considers them canon!
@@Shinzon23 define "everyone else"
@@Shinzon23 Dune canon stops with Chapterhouse Dune and the Encyclopedia, Brian Herbert & Kevin J Anderson is fan fiction
Carryalls can't use suspensors, it drives the worms into a kill-frenzy. This would explain why they use suspensor field drives in the safety of the spaceport, but not out in open sands where the worms are.
Not in dune but by heritics they have ixain airborne factories carryall and factory in one . I suspect the vibrations or vibrations are minimized in somw way or they can detect wormsign and withdraw and return ?
Hm, I might be wrong but I think you are getting mixed up between suspensors and personal shields. The holtzman shield attracts worms which is one reason they are not used on soldiers on Dune. Carryalls though, whether they use suspensors or not hardly need to worry about worms as they fly high above the ground.
@@ukmediawarrior The Suspensor is based on the same Holtzman research that makes shields possible.
@@raithnor6007 Yep, but as I said whether the Carryall uses them or not doesn't matter as they fly and aren't touching the ground.
@@ukmediawarrior You say that, but do you REALLY want to fuck with the worm movement pattern when you try to harvest spice? Sure, your Caryall is fine if high enough, but you do need to land some harvesters eventually, not call nearby worms or make them stick around.
Warhammer 40k: "Who are you?"
Dune: "I am the main source of your franchise that GW stole from me."
Herbert, Azimov, Morecock, Miura. GW rips off everybody. That's why you have a moral obligation to pirate their content and 3d print their models
@@ofthecaribbean I hate GW as much as the next guy but 40k started out as a parody of mainstream sci-fi franchises. The early writers weren't ripping off the other materials, they were parodying them as well America and Britain's imperialistic actions during the 80's.
Fuck GW, but in the early days they didn't steal, they just did heavy parody and satire of the other Sci-Fi franchise out there.
Do you have any idea how little that narrows it down!?
@@johndanes2294 Those days are long gone
I like the industrial design of dune2021 a lot. It showcase a world so accustomed to these technology wonders that they looks mundane without extra decoration.
Same! The design was simply gorgeous.
I really like the movie buuuuut I habe to say that I wasnt that impressed with it. I love more complex, asymetrical Designs like the apc from Aliens
kinda like from halo but its just soo boxy and dull but eh
Always did kind of like the reason Herbert came up with to limit the use of shields and laser weapons in the Dune series.
mad principle at work. fire a laser at a shield and both parties get wiped out and potentially anything around them.
It was a pretty nifty way to have combat devolve back to bladed weapons. Heck, it even devolves combat further than that. The shield makes the more traditionally effective spear and longsword (typically more common and effective melee weapons the stereotypical hand or hand a half sword iconic of fantasy heroes) more unwieldy than short swords and daggers as these weapons rely on their reach and ability to build up momentum. Shield combat makes this very difficult and disrupts many of the movement used when fighting with these weapons.
Primarily, lasers + shields would nuke each other. Also shields on Arrakis emit a frequency that cause the sandworms to frenzy. Most other technology are difficult to maintain on Arrakis because along with the heat, would get sandblasted down.
Clearly Templin would save alot of speculation if better read.
the problem is lack of detail leads a ton of questions about the vulnerabilities and limitations. for example the shields seem to let people under a personal shield breathe, so is air being allowed through or is it like a scuba diver in which they have a limited supply of air? if it is letting air through then deadly atmosphere, poisons etc could kill someone under a shield. if limited supply that is another danger that could be exploited.
@@Bustermachine why not use spear or pike then? A pikewall of shielded soldiers would be almost undefeatable from the front
Heighliners were not described in detail by Frank Herbert in his original Dune releases, but both the 1984 Dune Movie and the Dune Miniseries of 2000 show guildships as gigantic cylindrical vessels. The Dune Encyclopedia, however, states that Heighliners have a globular shape.
Which makes sense since the Navigators are presumably range limited, not mass limited, in what they can move safely. A sphere gives you the maximum volume for a given radius.
@@archapmangcmg That assumes that an FTL drive works on a spherical radius though, which may or may not be the case. The immediate impression I got from this interpretation of the highliner, is that the shape of the ship resembles the (very) hypothetical way space would be folded during FTL travel. So a hollow tube might theoretically be the maximum usable volume within folded space.
Remember. The Dune Encyclopedia that was printed in 84 was not written by Herbert and the author who did write it said it was not official canon.
@@UnknownSquid They were meant to be globular. Spherical.
The shapes in the films didn't match the books.
@@archapmangcmg I wasn't really stating one way or the other. But regarding spheres and canon, see Adarians comment just above, as well as how the OP noted that the exact shape of Highliners weren't described in Herbert's actual Dune books themselves.
I was only pointing out that a spherical radius isn't necessarily the form that FTL functions around. A sphere would be one logical possibility, but not the only one. For example, far as we know FTL travel might form a wormhole like tube, in which case longer and narrow shapes would instead be more optimal.
Actually the Spacing guild does not use the Navigator's to fold space, the Holtzman engine does that. They need them as Navigators (as the name suggests), who evade objects on their course, as there are no thinking Mashines to do that. Before the Navigator's one in 8 ships was lost during FTL travel.
the navigators folding space is just the most simplest way of stating how it works. it is both correct and yet wrong at the same time.
How do you even know this, my lord?
that sounds like ultimate dodgeball (makes sense though) xD
If the Navigator push the Holtzman engine's button, he IS folding space.
The same way when we push the button of a drill... we're drilling, albeit the drill is doing the phisycal work.
For more sensefull explanations, ask me, your faithful mentat servant.
Those things aren't cheap
1 in 8 being lost would get prohibitively expensive very quickly
The landing craft deploy balloons to increase drag during re entry from space, the massive increase in drag right at the end of the decent helps to slow the craft down very quickly, reducing the time for AA to attack them
And a parachute type design would get torn to shit in that environment/not be resusable
@@BBanzaj I don't know if it's true or not, but the logic behind that would be that it allows you to drop faster up until the end, as opposed to a more controlled (slower) descend all the way
@@BBanzaj you donât want to be slow for most of the decent, but if you donât slow down fast enough then you will pancake, itâs just like a real life HALO jump, you pull your parachute at the last second, this is exactly the same, it minimizes the amount of slow time but also makes sure that you are still alive and havenât crashed, youâre still exposing yourself to AA but for much less time than if you slowly descend, and youâre still alive compared to smacking into the ground đ€Ł
@@BBanzaj I would think but in the scene one of the drop ships gets shot down on final approach by a conventional high caliber AA gunâŠ
Yup suspensors are very VERY gradual antigrav systems &would take too long to slow the craft.. Jesus Denis Villeneuve really did think of everything
God-Emperor of Mankind: Who are you?
Leto II: *I am you, but wormy*
GW is on their Sigma Male Grindset ripping everybody off
ĐĐŸĐ»ĐŸĐ¶Đ”ĐœĐžĐ”
also Leto II: *I am you, but alive*
Leto II: "Your source."
Leto II: Fear is the mind killer. You died the moment you arrived on your Terra
*Laughs in Siona*
I think you're kinda right about the Harkonnen design of harvester. But at the same time, both factions are ill-suited to Arrakis. Atreides harvesters are basically big lawnmower roombas: slow, not very agile, and they just suck up the sand and spice and spew the filtered sand out the back. It looks like the Harkonnen harvesters operate differently in that maybe they find a Spice spot, and stop flat (rather than circling over it) and, if they really are like ticks, send some kind of subterranean probe into the ground to start collection. I wouldn't be surprised if, while watching a Harkonnen harvester work, you start seeing the land in all directions begin to sink, as the tick sucks the spice out and leaves voids in the sand. Once spice levels drop to sub par levels the tick pulls its probes back, and trots off elsewhere... or depending on how ticklike it is, it might JUMP instead, with thrusters and those legs, making less of a disturbance for the worms to track than a half-mile wide Roomba thrumming over the land. Lol.
In the book there is only one type of harvester and it is unique to Dune as that form of mining equipment would never be used anywhere else. The fact the movie has both Houses with their own unique styles is a little stupid, lol.
@@ukmediawarrior I thought that in the movie that the Harkonnens left behind maybe old designs that the Atredeis are using. So maybe the "tick" design is a newer design that the Harkonnens took with them when they left? I'm just guessing here...
@@matthewrawls1184 the harkonnens would either have taken any equipment of value (planning on returning with it or to sell to others to make profits) and what they wouldn't be able to take in tim they would either outright destroy or sabotage in some way. you certainly aren't going to give the house you are having a blood feud any potential leg up.
@@ukmediawarrior I think the idea is that there's merely a kind of machine called a Harvester. If there was no description of what one looked like or acted like, it's free to interpretation, including the idea that two star nations with two dramatically different ways of construction or building styles would design the same device in different ways. I mean, we have Cars. But each auto company takes the concept of 'Car' and designs what they think is the best version, or a better version of the idea.
So it's not entirely unrealistic. Atreides clan's homeworld was a waterworld. So when they design a Harvester, it might be based on a sea-going mass-fishing vessel, or a submersive kind of harvester that scours the deep sea for resources or organic materials that can be turned into product of some kind. They just sand-proofed it as best they thought (again, waterworlders going to a desert world) and slapped some tank treads on it so it could drive.
Harkonnen design is more organic related in this version, so their devices resemble things you'd expect like ticks and fleas. The dirgible dropship balloons he talks about being surprised about might be a cost-cutting measure; instead of wasting resources on extra fuel for hover-tech or constantly running engines, they merely added on these zeppelin-like pontoons specifically to save resources while working on Arakkis. Atreides seem almost flagrant in their use of materials for grand designs, while Harkonnen are more economical, if nasty looking. At least to me.
@@matthewrawls1184 Yeah, but then why take it with them when they can't use them anywhere but Dune, lol:) You are right, though, they were supposed to leave all the mining equipment behind, so the Atreides would be using Harkonnen harvester, not their own
Should note that, regardless of the violence of the detonation, both the shielded entity and the lasgun user are guaranteed to be destroyed. The effects seem to occur at BOTH ends of the lasgun beam.
Concerning the ship with 2 blow out balloons on each side,there is a simple explanation for that. Those are drop pods, in the trailer they are only shown decending.
If you designed a drop pod for use on the planet, it would be simple, you need a box that can be "fired" out of a frigate, and something to rapidly slow the box's decent. Ballons offer both slowing lift, as well as air resistance, can take up minimal space, and if your specialized box full of human cargo gets blown out of the sky, balloons are cheap to replace. Plus they can be single use or multiuse.
Surely it is also to pass through the shield covering the city too? Anything too fast would be repelled by the shield.
@@hgxnorton1986 Except Dr. Yueh had already turned off the shield before the attack began.
My theory is that automatic defences would target anything with a more sophisticated engine or cause the Holtzman effect automatically and with great accuracy. This way they are shooting blind as balloons don't register as a threat.
@@Cdre_Satori except that during Gurney's last charge, one of the ships is hit by artillery and falls to the ground
I agree, the ballons are more or less a parachute. Paratroopers are a standart for modern armies, dropping whole ships from orbit would be the perfect fit for a "medival Sci-Fi" universe.
According to lore and history of the Dune universe, there was a cyborg-machine takeover in the past and subsequent rebellion by normal humans to free themselves. As a result, certain technologies were forbidden and then forgotten. Perhaps the design of balloons and other strange developments we see in these movies are a result of those limitations. Only the most simple of computers were allowed, for example, which gave rise to the Mentats. Advanced computer control was non-existent, limiting the types of technology that could be utilized.
their tech has stagnated to a huge degree. they have rules put in place to limit the nasty effects of war and harsh consequences if any side violates them. so the chaos that can often cause evolutionary spurts is no longer there
The balloons are used because using the anti grav equipment drives the worms crazy in the desert. In the city they have the shield wall so they float there with no issue
It is like Dune plays in the dark age of Asimovs foundation while there still is an empire but a loosely one like the HRE was, with emperor does not have direct control over everything
@@lXlElevatorlXl Speaking of the Dark Ages, I have noticed that almost exclusively, most of the military troops we have seen so far in ALL renditions of the Dune Universe, Atreides, Sardukaur, the most recent remake, the David Lynch 1984 remake, the original books, whatever; melee weapons such as knives or swords, are preferred. I have only seen one or two instances of guns such as ballistic or energy hand weapons were ever depicted or mentioned.
actually.. according to the actual lore, not brians fanfics, there were was a religious jihaad against computers, and the people who used them to control other peoples. there's NO mention of cyborgs or AI overlords or whatever boring tripe was written after frank passed away.
"Carry alls" are already one giant jet engine that it uses to move and get to the harvester quickly. Balloon is just using jet exhaust to counter the weight of full harvester with the lifting body of the balloon. You're wasting exhaust either way. This provides extra lift, saves fuel, allows you to just hang up there without spending all fuel waiting for worm to leave and make transport smaller then _3 times the size of the harvester_ that you would need otherwise.
I guess irl counterpart is locomoskyner or whatever that thing was called. Or just usual hot air balloons:D
As for dropships, inflatable air breaks and heat shields do exist.
Well, it makes no sense. If the carry-all works like a jet engine than the exhaust stream would blow towards the Harvester. So, the ropes between the Carry-All and the Harvester would break. If the Ballons should carry the weight of the harvester and the carry all, than they would need to be much bigger. Those Harvester look like they weight 1000 ts. A Battle tank has a weight of 50 -60 ts and has 2 tracks, the harvester has 16 tracks in a row and about 4 rows, so about 64 tracks. That piece is huge and massive. Some years ago there was a company called cargolifter, their business idea was to lift Generator and Turbines with an airship. For 160 ts the airships would need 550.000 m3 of Helium. The ship would be 250 m long and had a diameter of 50m. To lift a 1000 ts payload the airship, or balloon would be much bigger than the balloons the Carry-All pumped out.
Dune is very well done, I was skeptical but it was actually good
Same here. I was looking forward to watching the new film, but also a bit of dread. I am a huge fan of David Lynch's movie, but this is growing on more and more. There where a few times during the new movie that I got goose bumps and a bit emotional, so it has left it's mark on me.
@@mark261166 Same here. I just watched the new movie with equal parts enthusiasm (Dune is one of my top 5 book series) and dread. I teally, really liked the David Lynch version, the Sci-Fi mini-series not so much. While it went further in the books than Lynch's, there were too many little things it missed or got wrong.
So I sat down to watch a remake of a remake fully prepared to be disappointed only to be pleasantly surprised. (It helps that the director has been a huge Dune fan since childhood and wanted to do the books justice.
While this new one missed quite a few scenes and/or bits of dialog, the design of the costumes, sets and effects were really outstanding. My only gripe with it is it is ONLY part one (now I have to wait possibly a whole 'nother year to get part two) and I really missed the voiceover narration from the 80's original. đ
Highliners fold space through the holtzman effect, a predictable but poorly understood effect that is utilized by shield technology, lazeguns, and FTL fold. Navagaters use precognition to find a save path as not to be a 1 in 10 loss rate that occures when non precogs try to sus out the proper route.
also used by glowglobes, although I have no idea how they're related to other Holtzman Effect based technology lol
@@voodoolilium the glowglobs have a different origin in original books /encyclopedia. But the prequels and sequels have them as you said a variation of the holzman effect. But there are plenty of contradictions between them and a few in the original canon . Or the original idea was expanded apon or retconed. By frank ( which is far enough)
@@shanenolan8252 Ahh, I might be getting the prequels and original books mixed up slightly. I swear I remember something about how they work in the original book though.
Also, afaik the encyclopedia is completely non-canon, although it's definitely interesting.
EDIT: Although, the suspensor part of glowglobes is from the Holtzman Effect at least.
@@voodoolilium yes there are are descriptions in the original books ( maybe not the first book but there definitely mentioned) and a different explanation in the new books and the encyclopedia. But the encyclopedia and the original books are cannon imo . Just because the owners of the estate decide to de cannon it after frank died doesn't make it so . Same thing with star wars or star trek . New writers come along dismiss previous authors work that is wonderful and remake it in an less appealing or logical way. I mean they take ideas or storyline from the encyclopedia like current star wats writers with the expanded universe. Which George Lucas authorized and approved of like frank Hubert did the encyclopedia. And the new canon takes huge liberty's with the canon also . Or retcons and changes things to suit thete version when it suits them . And its not as good . Just to be clear they own the copyright and can profit from it , but they can't uncreate another writer's work or dismiss it . They can not republish it ( whicjh is petty ) but if frank Hubert said at the time this isn't canon and they dont have permission fair enough. But his son different story . And if the new official canon isn't as good then the fans decide. Eventually it all becomes public domain anyway. Eventually copyright has limits as several estates found out recently. Like bram stoker or jane Austen or any of the English language classics and music published before a certain date . Ultimately we decide what is or isn't canon. ( you xant put the jiny back in the bottle ) if you follow ? . Sorry canon is a sore subject.
@@voodoolilium in the original book they're basically just lightbulbs that may or may not have a Holtzman suspensor to levitate them.
The Atreides Spice-harvesters were Harkonnen too actually I think, as they have been left for the Atreides by the Harkonnen, I believe it might just have been an older, perhabs even outdated design?
i thought that too, even in the movie Leto complains that the equipment they have been left with is just outdated trash, implying its not built/designed by Atreides but rather Harkonen
@@aguspuig6615 Could be another House's equipment that was mothballed by the Harkonnens.
Harkonnnens had only governed for a hundred years by the time of Dune but some house was there before them.
The beauty of Dune is that it's an extremely rational universe, everything has a very logical explanation.
Why do they use those massive ships? because it's better to have 1 navigator for an entire fleet than having a navigator for each ship.
Why do the houses obey the emperor? because he controls the strongest military force in the galaxy.
It's all simple and rational.
What I like is that a big reason why the God-Emperor of Dune does what he does is because he realizes that humans have not advanced in thousands of years as the universe is too stable. I think the Bene Gesserit are also trying to make changes to humans to allow humanity to advance or evolve past the stalled progress that humanity lives in during that time. The forces of power are too stable but also too reliant on each other for any one single entity to disrupt the balance too much and the Bene Gesserit (and later Emperor Leto II) realize that the only way forward for humans is for themselves to advance/evolve so that they have freedom again from the all-too-stable/stalled environment they live in. I think if I remember properly that somewhere in one of the books (maybe even the fourth book) that a main character mentions that not evolving or advancing any more is similar to dying; as in, if you are not changing then you are just continuing the status quo and life involves change.
the houses obey more to the rules of the great convention. if a house breaks those laws the emperor can point at said house and the spacing guild will for free transplant every remaining house there to wipe out the offenders.
If you say so. I was fourteen when I read the original novel almost fifty years ago, and while I admired its level of invention I couldnât buy into its future-feudalism for a moment. And I could never really understand Letoâs accepting the emperorâs offer to take over the spice concession on Arrakis in the first place. He knows full well itâs a trap, but even if it werenât, going through with it will require leaving their home world and taking up residence in a planetary hell for decades if not the rest of their lives. Itâs not like they needed the money.
@@michaelhall2709 You forget two things: 1. He can't disobey the Emperor without losing his position of power. 2. The Baron wants to exterminate all the Atreides. If he disobeys the Emperor and runs away to some remote planet they will become an easy prey for the Baron, who only needs to find them to finish his revenge.
@@michaelhall2709 Another part of it is that House Atreides understood House Harkonnen and the Emperor extremely well, and had anticipated and counter-strategized for nearly every maneuver House Harkonnen would play. They had a very real possibility of reversing the trap and coming out on top, with Harkonnen collapsed and the Emperor at their mercy. In the end what it came down to was:
1. House Harkonnen discovering a way to subvert Imperial Conditioning, a possibility that not even the Emperor was aware of, and
2. House Harkonnen spending way, *way* more money on the attack than House Atreides calculated that they could afford.
Seeing Dune tomorrowâŠso pumped
EDIT- just saw itâŠ.holy shit, they actually did it. Hoping for part 2 to be green lit
It has been
AHHHHHH My Friend, you are in luck. See you in 2023.
Just was
And this movie was just half of volume 1, hope they do all six of Frank Herbert's novels; that's a time span of over 5,000 years
Part 2 was fire
Dust storms can kill an engine, so any design that prevents dust from getting into the moving parts is probably the better choice on a sand planet.
That said, balloons of any kind would be a terrible idea, because sand storms on Arrakis can be almost twice as powerful as the strongest hurricane on record, so you would either want as little surface area as you could possibly manage, or you would want a design that could move above the winds fast enough for the storms to not matter. If you have a material that can survive all that, you'd probably want to use it as a sail or glider, not a balloon, so you could make use of the wind speed.
Imagine how embarrassing it would be for an invading army to suddenly get blown halfway across the planet, because their balloon transports got swept away by wind...
Large vessels probably also make extensive use of suspensors, anti-grav devices based on the same technology behind shields and the Holtzman engines. It's been noted that these generate vibrations that can also attract Sandworms, so it makes sense to use the balloons to take most of the weight, so you can cut power to the suspensors. The cargo lifter at the refinery, likely doesn't need the balloons, since its operating far from worm-country.
That would depend on what kind of propulsion it uses, it, clearly uses ornithopter and jet engine combo when not transporting harvesters. When transporting harvesters, the main bulk of the weight is taken up by the balloons and the other engines can be used more for propulsion instead of lift. That being said, the harvesters look incredibly heavy, so although mobility would be severely impaired in the case of windy conditions since the balloons have a massive surface area, but not impaired to the point of being blown halfway across the planet. I would guess that standard protocol in such situations would be to try and gain altitude as quickly as possible to avoid the worst of the storm, then relocate or set down the harvester once the storm ends
wouldn't such storms be visible long before they got to a region? you would think weather predication would be a must in order to figure out where to setup harvest operations
You replace your lift generating balloons with sails. How do you get into the air?
@@chaotixthefox Sails would be for cutting the cost of fuel, not lifting off: a balloon that small isn't going to lift industrial machinery by itself either.
If fuel isn't the factor, then it's better to use a form of propulsion that's either faster, weights less, or better for changing direction.
Nitpick for the Institute - While the Ship Paul ride's aboard is likely a guild vessel, it would not be a No-Ship as they do not exist at this point in time. At least not according to the original Dune novels continuity established by Frank Herbert.
Edit : Another detail, while changed for the movie for obvious visual stylistic reasons, in the book, the harvesting equipment operated by house Atreides is not just identical, it's exactly the same as the Equipment used by the Harkonnen. This is because Great House controlling Arrakis does so at the pleasure of the Emperor and the Landsrad Council. Essentially it confers a responsibility with the potential for immense profits, but the equipment is all part of the mining operation and is, nominally, meant to be left in good order.
Likewise the mining the crews are typically hired on and not actually members of the House. Of course, that doesn't mean they don't appreciate working under a House that places a modicum of value on human life.
@staris84 Yes. I thought that the harvester we saw working and then attacked was an older machine meaning the newer models were all out of commission or missing parts due to Harkonnen sabotage. Everything on the planet is run by CHOAM at the pleasure of the Emperor. The house in charge is simply the steward of the business.
I was looking for a comment like this, thank you! No-ships won't be invented in the Frank Herbert Dune Universe for at least 3000 to 3500 years from the events of the first movie. Good spotting.
little weird that the two houses have different harvesters, given that in the book the harvesters the atreidies used were the exact same hardware the harkonnans used, and it is implied that the harvesters have been there through many different houses controlling the planet. there is even dialog from Duke Leto to gurney halleck in the novel to go and try to convince the harvester workforce to stop quitting and leaving the world, because they need workers who have experience with the planet and the hardware used to harvest spice.
I reckon some of the fine details are left to the discretion of the houses who harvest the spice, the basic systems are sufficiently universal, and only require a little different training. Sort of like how we have slightly different classes of airliners, within each class are enough characteristics that those pilots can be familiar with. I might be overthinking this lol
The film could not have had a no-ship as they were invented much later as a reaction to prescience of Atreides emperors.
didnÂŽt where they invented first by the Harkonnen in the prequel directly to dune not the jihad thing...
@@SirHeinzbond dunno about no prequels, but first appearance of no-ships and no-chambers in the series presents them as Ixian inventions.
@@SirHeinzbond those don't follow lore and aren't canon.
@@SirHeinzbond Yes, a Harkonnen (the Baron's son IIRC) used one to frame a young Leto for blowing up another ship within a highliner.
@@SirHeinzbond house atrades i think. But the idea was taken from heritics of dune . Poorly i believe. The no chamber .but the date of creation would have been around this period but after the end of book one .
I suddenly have the urge to reinstall OpenRA and play Dune 2000 again.
Consider also Emperor: Battle for Dune, a C&C: Generals era game, also made by Westwood.
@@electromistress good luck finding it though
@@isimiel3405 I've had a copy on disc ever since I was a kid. ÂŻ\_(ă)_/ÂŻ
@@electromistress I wish any of the old Westwood Dune games were available to buy. There's a reason why I hadn't played Dune 2000 in nearly two decades until I found out they remade it for OpenRA. I never even got to play Emperor: Battle for Dune, it's so hard to find.
It's not a no-ship. That technology was invented much, much later.
Almost 2000 years later, in fact
Well, according to the storyteller. Dune was written as a form of religious text, much like how George Lucas initially wrote Star Wars.
I love the fact that they smell like garlic when they fly.
yep, no need for a no-ship if you don't have an all powerful precog emperor looking around. Although the no-ship tech is based on the same principals as null-entropy capsules which exist in the first book so there could have been some inkling of a no-ship prior to Leto, but that's unlikely
i was actualy sooner by scientist under harkonen, but because the scientist was killed by baron ("safety reasons" - we dont want other find out) nofurther developement... minimal size of field is 180meters. Dune: House Atreides
Meanwhile just got a Dune Ad, Gotta love it
Petty sure CZcams possesses Prescience
@@TemplinInstitute
Most likely
Watched this movie last night! Glad to see yâall doin videos on Dune
Ornithopters are probably one of my all time favorite ship designs in sci-fi and I loved the mix of sci-fi tech mixed with kinda old or primitive, like balloons. The whole bag pipe thing was also cool
Dune where Warhammer 40k got its inspiration from.
And Star Wars. And possibly Game of Thrones. It's the granddaddy of a lot of SciFi (and fantasy) universes.
One of it's many many many sources. 40k is a mishmash of ideas from many places. Dune, 2000AD (the precursor to Judge Dredd), some of Asimov, and some "what about warhammer fantasy, but *in space* are the main ones.
Correction where everyone got inspiration
Nope!!
It's been primarily Warhammer Fantasy and Laserburn.
Wasn't there something in the book about levitation devices being ill-advised, like shields, due to their ability to attract worms? Wouldn't that explain why the carryalls use balloons, while the spice transports use levitation systems? One is designed to operate in worm country, the other in a safe zone.
Yea, and itâs why thopters are used as well. The same tech the makes shields also create the lift devices.
Man, that Sardaukar prayer scene was epic!
That fighter Duncan first appeared in was my favorite. No clue as to what it was, but it looked amazing.
Sad that it is not used during the battle on Dune.
@@aceofhearts573 Seriously. I really believed he was going to bring it to Dune but he left it on the Caladan instead.
a quick note to the books though: the link between the worms and the spice is not a universally known fact in the Dune-Universe (not even to the spacing guild), but rather a closely guarded secret of the Fremen canon-wise. One that Mua'dib has to discover. It does seem quite obvious for the reader though, since both spice and worms are only to be found on Arrakis, from all the planets out there in the galaxy.
right! it was the ecologist who discovers that link, as he is draw into the sand by a worm if I recall
The Harkonnen troop transports might use balloons for stealth; no loud engines or beating-wing hum. As someone else has mentioned, suspensors attract and annoy Shai'Hulud; just what you don't want in your landing zone.
But the landing zone was inside the ring walls of Arrakeen, the worms never come there because of the ring of mountains around the city, spaceport and environs. So they could of used suspensors just fine and they would of been silent.
@@ukmediawarrior Yes, but I imagine they used what they had on hand, and since they'd just finished a stint as the rulers of Arrakis...
@@IainG10 Sorry, don't follow, what does the fact that they just came off of ruling Arrakis have to do with what equipment they would have? We are talking about Houses who rule many planets, who have home worlds. Arrakis wasn't the Harkonnen home world, the tech they used there was specific to Dune, but drop ships with suspensors they used everywhere else and they knew they could use them to attack Arrakeen.
@@ukmediawarrior they don't tend to rule many planets. the house minors often take care of that. Harkonnen had a charter to mine the space.
@@toomanyaccounts Yes it did, but the equipment they used didn't belong to them. I think we are discussing this in another comment, lol. We are talking about a whole universe of planets here, not just a dozen or so each ruled b a different House. Yes, the minor Houses ruled some, but the bigger Houses like the Harkonnens and Atreides ruled more. And as I said just because they had left Arrakis doesn't mean they were hard up for ships and tech. They were one of, if not the most wealthy Houses in the universe, they could supply all the drop ships they needed.
5:20 I hate sand. It's coarse, rough and it gets everywhere.
I think one thing you missed is that there are no computers in the Imperium, that's exactly what the Mentats are for.
I think there are limited simple computers, technically, but I could be wrong. I haven't re-read in a while, but I'm pretty sure. The main thing is avoiding anything resembling AI.
@@voodoolilium something on the order of an electronic abacus is acceptable in the time of the first three novels; by God-Emperor, Leto II has managed to get people to accept something on the level of the Commodore PET or Apple ][ (totally not because Frank had caught up to using one by the time he wrote it.)
By Heretics and Chapterhouse, ordinary people are back up to about our level of computer technology, including networking (briefly described in the BG archives in Chapterhouse) and Ix mass produces a totally-not-AI to replace Navigators by just doing the prescience with math.
@@youmukonpaku3168 there are concerns about those because people got suspicious of any machine that responded to quick or to well to commands or seemed to anticipate what the human wanted to do.
If I remember correctly navigators do not fold space. They plot course that allow for safe travel. That is why they are called NAVIGATORS, they navigate. FTL travel without them is possible in DUNE universe but it is highly dangerous. In later novels set thousand years after events of first book they develop machines that allow safe travel without guild navigators.
fold space is just the simple way of saying what they do. it is correct but wrong at the same time.
Never read Dune, but I don't think it's any more unreasonable for civilian utility craft to use balloons instead of thrusters than it is for modern helicopters to use props instead of turbines. Sometimes you just need the cheapest, most reliable, high-endurance tool for the mission, and if the carryalls are purpose built for Arrakis instead of the more generalized aerospacecraft, I think it's a fine choice.
Most modern helicopters do use turbines
The "Laser/Shield" explosions are literally a nuclear explosion according to cannon and just as illegal to cause as if you had attacked another house with "Atomics"; I don't know if there are any restrictions on using Atomics on groups or people outside of the "Landsraad". Also varies a bit if you going by original or expanded cannon. Also the movies/Mini-series always make it sound like House Atreides is giving up their home world in exchange for Arrakis, Great Houses can rule more than one planet. House Harkonnen by example had 2 other planets besides Arrakis.
As I remember, atomics can only be used against inanimate objects, not people.
One slight point, I don't think it was lasguns, I think those are particle beam weapons aren't they? It'd fit more neatly with their visual, creating a tight bright blue beam (ionization of the air, like a lightning bolt)
You might very well be right. What made me think it was a Lasgun was that it only began firing once the shields were down. Seemed to be making a point of it.
not sure in the books are particle beam weapons, remember only the part with the discover of holtzman shield lasgun reaction, but i can be wrong...
No that's a lasgun. Particle beams aren't a thing in Dune. They're able to use it since Duncan's thopter lost its shield. You see the same gun when the Saduukar break into the door with it
@@TemplinInstitute no, that is completely right, the Holtzmann effect and directed energy weapons causd weird interactions and big boom...
Might I suggest reaching out/talking to Quinns ideas on CZcams? The lad did a whole series about everything in Dune, he might know more/ hes the source of all my Dune knowledge
The beam look pretty much exactly like a real commercial laser fired through fog. With the amount of dust and fume created by the ongoing battle, this is what I would except a high powered sci-fi military laser to look like under those conditions.
Digging the clever design of the carryall and those balloons.
Same bro
I saw it at 9/16/2021 and i was blown away by the carry all. So much creativity going on
I thought Is saw an Atreides fighter flying between their frigates when they were under attack. The scene where Gurney watches two frigates get hit, their shields activate, then erupt
Iâm guessing jet intakes, at least our kind, wouldnât last an hour in the sand environnement, unlike the mechanical wings of the âthopters
Jet intakes would need heavy-duty filters put on them, while the thopters would need good rubber (or other flexible/sturdy/expendable material) seal around the moving parts
@@toddkes5890 or use idk, propellers.
thopters literally have jets for extra thrust when needed...
@@Agarwaen the design is stupid, why not have helicopters instead.
@@Danuxsy how's that relevant to what I said? as it is, it's rather arrogant to presume to know how people thousands of years in the future should design things given tech and situations we simply do not have (nevermind how it would be ever so boring as a future setting)
So glad you talk about the different thopter models, the Harkonnen one had me thinking of the Hind last night in the theatre lol
Was well impressed with the Ornithopter design, the manouvering skills and speed were amazing and it took me a couple of times to actually get the scope of things in this movie, the Heighliner was immense as was most the visuals in this. Brilliant video, new subscriber.đđœ
Thanks, I have been looking for this video. Thanks for making it.
Great video as always
- Probably not a no-ship, as they're supposed to be invented by the Ixians thousands of years later.
- Assuming they don't use "jet" engines, my main point would be that fixed wing aircraft won't be able to take off again. Why not rotors or VTOLs then? Erh...Not cool enough?
- Suspensors, like shields, drive the worms into a frenzy
"Spacing Guild" not "Spacer Guild." No ships didn't generally exist until after the Dune book. Also, the Spacing Guild would have no use for them at this time because they were the prescient group.
Isn't the spacer guild from the game outer worlds?
Everytime I watch breakdown of the film, I learn new stuff. Goes to show how super detail the production quality of the film. Love it!
Beautiful kind of video, it's like getting a magazine with a collage of all the ships in Episode 3 back in 2005
Honestly Quite Incredible
The Spice must flow
Great video analyzing all the vehicles. I gave you a like, cheers!
Nicely done! Thanks
"These feature the same bulbous curved shapes you see on Harkonnen frigates" as well as the Harkonnen Baron.
The harvester's design & scene, even the way they communicate looks like indirectly a nod to RTS game, Homeworld: Desert of Kharak. I too loved that dragonfly ornithopter.
Great video thank you, I can't wait for the next movie to come out
That fighter looking craft Duncan was flying was absolutely BEAUTIFUL, and as graceful as a hawk.
FYI, No-ships won't be invented for a LONGG time after the events of the first book/this movie.
about 3500 years for the first no-room (in which Hwi Noree is birthed) and second no-room (in which Leto II hides his diary from everyone who is not Siona) and about 500 more for the first no-ships of the Scattering.
Unless you think Brian Herbert can write, in which case the Harkonnens for some reason have a no-ship like 1200 years before Leto and Paul land on Arrakis.
@@youmukonpaku3168 I take all of the Brian Herbert/Kevin J Anderson books with a planet sized grain of salt. From the books I've read, it feels like, to me at least, they must have been working off of his dad's notes, but obviously had to fill in a lot, and are nowhere near the caliber of writer.
That said, I did enjoy the Butlerian Jihad trilogy, although I imagine it is only loosely based on what Frank Herbert must have had in mind.
Also, I guess I forgot that no-rooms weren't developed until almost the end of Leto II's reign. For some reason I was thinking they had been developed sooner. It's hard to keep the massive time scale in frame haha
If I had to guess the drop ships used balloons as a simple, cheap way to arrest velocity during the decent since they're supposed to be assault ships. Balloons are probably cheaper than rockets busters or engines and they have a smaller profile than a parachute. At least that's my guess.
It's also possible that their balloon tech is just better then ours.
I think they use balloons because its silent. Sardaukar parachuters attack silently.
Excellent observations and theories. Superb presentation.
The twin balloon landing craft have a really cool vibe to them that I can't quite put into words.
The trap here is that form follows form. The Atreides craft exist as they do because they follow function. The main problem they have is that they could expend less resources on surface area, but maybe 90° angles are easier for them to fabricate. Harkonnen craft are intended to intimidate, so a more organic and insectoid form makes sense: a matchbox is less intimidating.
Also, landing craft are _not_ ornithopters. Ornithopters range over a relatively flat landscape in an energy-efficient manner, but no other craft, including landing craft, can be assumed to be so. I haven't seen Villeneuve's Dune yes, but those look like some kind of purpose-built landing craft, not ornithopters to me.
The balloons, if they are effective and cost-effective, make a great deal of sense; lest we forget, there are modern ships looking at sails as a way to cut costs.
I love the explanation of Harkonnen harvester design choice!
Absolutely love the Dune lore and vehicles that comes along with it.
In the movie, the Harkonnen fired that beam weapon on a thopter Duncan stole and the thopter had shields. So either it wasn't a lasgun or they're not doing the lasgun + shields = nuclear explosion in the movie.
Also, the Sardukar helping the Harkonnen was a secret so they were probably using Harkonnen ships. If I remember correctly, in the book, the Sardukar were also disguised as Harkonnen soldiers in the attack on the Atreides.
And the spice harvester was not an Atreides design, it was equipment leftover by the Harkonnen.
They don't use anti-gravity technology in the desert because anti-gravity uses the Holtzman Effect, the same principle behind shields, which is known to attract worms and drive them into a frenzy.
The shield sputters out, leaving it defenseless to a lasbeam. I have never heard of kinetic explosions overwhelming a shield, but it seems a feature of the new lore.
Your reasoning for the laser style fire at the orniphopter is a little worrying to me. If they do away with the whole 'laz gun meets shield = big boom' then thats a big chunk of the background reasoning for why they use knives and projectile weapons rather than lasers.
@@ukmediawarriorMissiles are expensive, more expensive than a trained soldier. Think of it in modern terms a tomahawk missile costs a million dollars and a soldier a little less than 50 thousand to train and equip. It's also difficult to use against an insurgent force like the fremen who use hit and run guerilla fighting
@@andrewhansen4300 I totally agree with all you said .... I'm just not getting how it connects to my comment, lol.
@@ukmediawarrior Well in dune verse the lass and shield meeting was all ways risky. As if you shot some one whit one the chanse was the explosion comes from the shield end or the gun end even at some where in the middle. Either the harconen where very confident that the topter dint had its shield on or just tried to blow up the suroundings to knock it out of the sky.
Balloons are a very efficient way to air brake. I can see them being used in a dropship for that pourpose, not for lift.
7:30 ballons are meant to slow them down, since slow things can go through shields. I guess this was a precautionary thing, since attackers didnt know if there were any other shields active since they've launched the attack. You can see the similar thing when they orbit bombard Atreides' ships. The bombs actually slow down before they hit a target, and after the slow down, they just slide into through the shields and explode. Pretty clever
I love this new vision of the Dune universe, it is also more in line with the books. While watching it I kept considering how much depth and detail was there, and so much more that could be. The scene on the Imperial Army World of the Sardukar really drove this home and it almost makes me sad to think that it wont ever really be elaborated on.
I liked the change to the carryall. The huge flying wing would have been cool, but balloons make sense to hang around and then pick something up. The ornithopters were cool, but not what I imagined. I always pictured them somewhat like a halo pelican but with metalic bird wings. Their thrust would come from jet engines while the wings would be used to change the lift profile for rapid maneuvers such as folding back in a dive, extending for a glide.
Theory: Shields attract worms. The Holtzmann effect for antigrav technology is similiar to shield technology. As such, if you want to "drift" away, without the worm following all day... you need to stop attracting him.
Yes the novels say the shields "drive the worms into a killing frenzy" If it makes rhythmic sounds or buzzes, it's not your friend in the Arakis desert!
When I first read the books I didn't get the ornithopters, but seeing them in the movie they make sense. They would combine the low-does maneuverability of helicopters with the speed performance of fixed wing aircraft
thank you for explaining , visualisation of machines is perfect ! Wales UK.
I think when they use ballons, they only need like 40% or so of their energy for theirs engines. Like an extra help to get things in the air and stay in the air.
I'm sure most already know how 40k lifted a lot of its cool ideas from Dune but did you know it served as direct inspiration for the resource harvesting popular in the RTS genre?
A bit of additional gaming history for the curious: the first ever RTS was Dune 2 made by Westwood Studios. The well known Westwood Mammoth/Overlord/Apocalypse tanks (huge with 2 main cannons) also made an appearance as a Harkonnen unit.
@@IainG10 Dune 2000 is what you want, what you need
I was really looking for a good breakdown and analysis of dunes many vehicles... i think the movies designs were amazing!
The most impressive scenes for me on Arrakis and the Ornithoptere the machines with dragonfly wings but what an idea !
Baloons make sense, if you can quickly deploy them when you need them. In normal, unloaded flights baloons would be a "drag" - quite literally. But if you only deploy them when you need to stop or lift a large mass? The efficiency of baloons, without any of the downsides.
11:02 Reminds me of a part from the old movies/book: "The term Desert Power is first used by Duke Leto in his first meeting with the troops on Arrakis. He says "Our supremacy on Caladan depended on sea and air power. here we must develop something I choose to call desert power. This may include air power, but it's possible it may not." " Makes sense they did not bring their fighters, given they would not work there.
11:35 It is possibly currently unloaded, so it does not need it's baloons to stay in the air. It is also possible that it needs to use very expensive antigrav technology, that simply can not be deployed everywhere else.
Also the cost of transporting anything via guild ships is exorbitant. They had a lot of stuff they needed to bring with them, they may not have been able to afford to bring everything they wanted.
@@gdray82 Another possible answer is that this was a massive surprise attack and fighters typically take time to prepare and launch (to give an example, it's something like 45 minutes to prepare an F-16 from a cold start) it's possible that without their shields to buy them time the Atreides could only launch a handful of standby fighters that would be quickly dispatched offscreen against massive numerical odds.
Even if that's not the case, the frigates got dusted before all but a handful of them could even try to lift off. Much the same could have happened to the fighter hangars. And the Harkonnen would know exactly where they are located this being their former fief.*
Ornithopters, on the other hand, have many utility uses beyond simple patrols, so it makes sense that a contingent of them were on standby at all times. Plus, being small and more like helicopters, it would make for them to be stationed all over the city for the convenience of various garrisons and officials.
* One might assume that 'desert power' as the Duke envisioned it would have entailed developing the ability to move freely in Arrakis inhospitable desert regions so that the Atreides could make use of the desert to hide their forces from such an attack. In the alternate world where the Duke had the time to establish himself and make successful overtures to the Fremen, those frigates, fighters, and ornithoper squadrons probably would have been scattered to deep desert bases with numerous redundant staging and martialing areas and supply depots specifically to make such a decapitation strike almost impossible. And so that, even if an enemy succeeded in establishing a foot hold, at great cost, the Atreides would enjoy a considerable reserve of war fighting material while conducting a guerilla campaign.
ââ@@BustermachineAs we learned in part 2, the Atreides managed to hide something quite...impactful in the desert, outside the city.
You missed out on covering all the fun units like the Heavy Trooper, Quad, Trike, Combat Tank, Heavy Siege Tank, Rocket Launcher, Sonic Tank, Deviator, and Devastator. From the granddaddy of all real-time strategy games, Dune II: The Building of a Dynasty.
But I realise that all of those units may not actually be canon in the Dune lore. Maybe you could do a video on all the non-canon units that I've just listed?
Oh groundcars, tanks , launchers DO exist innthe books as well... they're just quite rare.
Everybody is talking about Dune lately. And I love it!
I love the high liner design. Theyâre like portals, and seeing the other side of the galaxy thru the tunnel is such a cool visual effect.
Dune and Battletech(probably took it from Dune too) understood that it was better to use enourmous FTL capable ships that can't land on planet rather then giving FTL and landing capability to all and everything.
Can't wait when they make a RTS of the new fil fingers crossed
Cool video đč đ Thanks đ
The coolest part about the ornithopter is that it is in fact a very viable and in fact often better alternatives to helicopters in the real world, able hover and move in any direction like a helicopter at a faster speed similar to an average prop plane, while also retaining the ability to glide in the case of losing engine power and alternating their flapping pattern to preserve energy or generate lift and thrust depending on their need, they also don't need fully separated joints like helicopter rotors as they don't need to spin completely. So dust Nd sand would actually be less of a problem
Cannot be a No ship, they were not invented at this point, the first references to the technology is in God emperor, which is a few thousand years ahead.
I love the film! I just don't get why they showed artillery rounds piercing shields. As far as I remember (might be wrong) in the books and also the Dune RPG from Modiphius (which I read a few weeks ago) they stated that artillery rounds cannot penetrate shields and cannot hurt shielded infantry. I just don't get how they could penetrate them.
You mean the charges that landed on top of the Atreides ships slipped through, and then detonated? it looked like the charge lands on and is stopped by the shield because the charge is moving too quickly to be allowed past the shield. The stopped charge now has a zero velocity relative to the shield, and can pass through. Since it is on top of the ship the charge falls due to gravity, and makes contact with the hull of the Atreides ship. Detecting the hull instead of the shield, the charge detonates. This was made easier since the top of the Atreides ships is flat, so there was no worry about the charge sliding off.
I think the ballons on the Hakonen troop transport are the equivalent to a parachute. They drop the whole transport in freefall from orbit and deploy the ballons to stop the fall and then land the vehicle.
Point about the spice transport carrier, it's lifting within the city, meaning it operates within the city walls and shields which help keep out the desert storms, so it isn't nearly as exposed as the Carry All's.
Long live the grand duchy!
When mankind finally masters spaceflight, I think that starships would look more like the starships of the Dune universe. After all, the shapes of ships don't matter in the vacuum of space; all that matters is sufficient protection from cosmic dust, starship debris, and stellar radiation. Space hazards will be the deciding factor in how starships ought to be shaped.
I feel like warhammer 40k is probably the most realistic ships, but I see your logic
I would love to see you cover more Dune topics. Maybe a dosser on Paul Atreides?