Pretty much. He even says that in wc3. She wanted a quick death. But he told her that with how much she pissed him off that was never going to happen. He wanted to humiliate and torture her. So psycho banshee it was for Sylvanas instead
A fault of many an episodic story. A story is almost never any good unless the author knows the ending before he starts writing. This gives even the most action filled serials the "soap opera" feel. Even if it attracts attention, it does not reward it.
The elves had a big gay force field like in dalaran supported by 3 pillars, which would not have let any scourge into quel thalas, but some dumbo elf decided to betray his people and assist in disrupting the pillars, letting arthas go freely into the enemy territory, securing his victory
to be fair nzoth might be one of old gods and obviously evil. but hes more or less the only old god so far that interacts with the player in not outright im gona kill you now attitude. and if not him destroying and corrupting all life on azeroth as well as turning azeroth into a void titan (yeah imagine that old gods dont want azeroth to die) he would not be such a bad creature to rule everything :D. That said considering how many things azeroth has gone over all this time im more surprised shes not immune to fell and void powers or unable to use them itself at this point.
I think that Sylvanas refered with "i am familiar with death" to her soul being ripped out of her body by arthus, being turned into a banshee, and forced to kill her own kind until she took back control.
‘Every one that disagrees with me is dishonorable’ he was salty that it is hitting home and that the dude called saurfang, and in extention himself, selfish and vapid
But the vid was wrong on alot of levels. As while it was correct to state that honor is not clearly defined in Orcish culture it ignores the times Saurfang acknowledges that he is imperfect. That the "Path of glory" was the exsact opposite. That Sylvanas was always selfish and even used Saurfang. And as we know wanted as much war and death as possoble. She was even in on Vol'jins death and every moment she did something "For the Horde", she just wanted more death for her boss. And it did not change that Saurfangs idioligi of honor matches the Alliances, and general defenition the most. And battle tactics in a war like minimozing casualties by assassinating guards compared to open battle are diffrent. And battle amongst leaders in Orc and modern Horde culture are duels.
Here is a crazy idea, keep the story consistent. I am not saying characters can't break out of their mold once in a while. But feels stupid how most the people contradict themselves and not get punished for it. Dude let Malfurion live and was vocal about not wanting the tree to urn down. So why is he A. Alive and B. How is he still in charge of anything? If one of your Generals is in open dissension about how you do things, you don't let that person keep doing it. Secretly kill them and blame it on the enemy or imprison him. She waited too long to kill him. Literally have access to assassins and spies, yet you try to help him escape and then go after him. At least challenge him an Orcish fight to the death to prove superiority. He is old and slow. You have magic, if Thrall can break the rules and use magic, so can you.
I have a feeling Asmon doesn't know a lot about Warcraft lore, and only reads up what is fed to him in the game and mostly on the Alliance side. Especially on the blood elf subject, so a group loyal to only Garrosh that has no affiliation to the Regent Lord betrayed the interest of Dalaran and stole the Divine Bell. And it's suddenly justified for Jaina to go and imprison every Blood Elves regardless of involvement or fault merely because they were Blood Elves, and slaughter any that tried to run or defend themselves? It's made any even bigger oopsie since Lor'Thermar was actually planning on defecting to the Alliance's side in the wake of Garrosh. Or what about Warcraft 3? When the Human general Garithos in charge of the Alliance sent Kael and his blood elves to fight the Scourge without their warriors and only mages and priests? Which led to the Blood Elves needing to forge an alliance with the Naga to even survive and push back the Scourge. And how were the Elves repaid? By being imprisoned and sentenced to execution for treason for consorting with the Naga, because of a situation they were in thanks to the ridiculous orders of an incompetent Alliance Human General. And the Elves were tethering on the brink of extinction at this point too! It's no wonder why the Blood Elves absolutely dislike and distrust the Alliance.
STOP USING GARITHOS! He's from Lordaeron and part of the "Alliance" of from that time (human only). He's legitimately more forsaken than modern day "alliance". In the end, like abused housewives with stockholme they went running back to their newly immortal abusers with their alliance to the forsaken. The excuse for the Blood Elves not joining the alliance has a great deal more to do with their ancient antagonism with the Night Elves, who were actively spying and committing acts of saboteur against the Blood Elves. Seriously, Garithos is as much alliance as Nathanos Blightcaller is. What I despise alliance side is the pussification of the Night Elves and the blatant incompetence of the post-cataclysm writers who missed the memo that the Night Elves historically are just as nationalistic, war-like and antagonistic as the orcs are. I wish I could say there's elements of intolerance in the modern southern humans in the alliance but throughout the entirety of lore they've maintained absolute lawful good untarnished reputation. The only situation the humans of the current alliance have EVER done a shitty act was when they didn't pay the stonemasons during the rebuilding of storm wind and caused the stonemasons (Edwin VanCleef etc) to revolt.
Actually Jaina was pissed because a member of the Sunreavers helped Garrosh get the divine bell. A weapon made out of the flesh of a titan keeper that was effectively a fucking nuke. Of course Jaina was pissed when Garrosh got his hands on another fucking WMD
Aaaaand she used that as an excuse to genocide elves who didnt knew about the operation instead of arresting the responsable and his lackies. The Kirin Tor is a council,yes they elect a leader but is not an absolute dictator. The elves were members and citizens of Dalaran and if their inmediate leader betrayed Dalaran,the Kirin Tor needed to actually deal with the responsable AND get a new representative for the belfs. Jaina didnt do that. She always was a crazy bitch.
Blizz just went batshit carzy with all the "Honor" they used this word so often that they completly lost its meaning and just use it to paint (very shaky) morals
WIth BFA we, Horde, lost what is Honor, we lost Lok'tar ogar. Because Honor and Lok'tar ogar are same thing. Lok'tar ogar/Victory or Death means put everything you have in the fight and die or wins, bouth endings lead to "Honor". If you run out of batlle, poison, burn or let enemy bleed out and other nonpersonal acting in fight is dishonorable. All Sylvanas acts of selfishness pist of whole "true" Horde.
Lol asmongold really can't get away from the "I play alliance so everything I do should be good" side huh? what is he so afraid of? why should there be no way that the alliance can be bad in any way? It's just really sad
Warcraft 3 shows most of alliance humans are extremely racist. Now Alduin is trying to stop all the war between horde and alliance but a lot of the horde can't forgive the past
@@cdshadow Exactly, the horse invaded Azeroth twice because they were being controlled by the burning legion. When victorious a second time, the humans started enslaving the orcs because they thought it more humane than making them extinct (I mean, humans irl have been enslaving the losing faction for a very very long time, probably back to the first civilizations we know of, and people in Africa are still enslaving each other). This all changed when Thrall was freed after being raised humans and enslaved by an abusive one. Thrall changed the horde and made them find a land of their own so they can build a city and seek friendship with humans, they worked together with Jaina and allied with taurens, but the humans didn't forgive them at all, and with Jaina's father being the instigator and having him die at the hands of the horde, she turned into an edgy teen and the war against orcs started again. Hell, Sylvannas tried to become part of the alliance because she was an elf, but they told her they would never forgive the scourge even if they said they broke free from the Lich King's influence. The alliance are the ones depicted to show and undying desire for vengeance after people who were brainwashed and controlled by evil forces. Garrosh "the greatest leader of the horde" was born from that endless conflict too.
@@rRekko let's not forget the reason Kael'thas Sunstrider had to go to Illidan for his people to survive. Leaderships will be divided, I am actually curious about the way we will go. We have Baine, Lor'themar, Thrall, Saurfang, Thalyssra, Rexxar, Anduin, Shaw, Jaina on one hand, those leaders would agree on siding with each other. But what about Alleria, Genn, Malfurion and Tyrande? I am not sure about Genn, he can agree on Anduin's peace but I am pretty sure Tyrande will stay in her Night Warrior form for a long time and due to Tyrande, Malfurion as well. Even if we see a big twist to show Sylvanas' reasoning, Tyrande won't stop anymore
Honor is something that differs from person to person and even more from culture to culture. In feudal Japan it was very unhonorable to flee from a battle. To that point western culture agrees. But they've gone further. They felt like it was the honorable thing to kill yourself if you did something like that. Now imagine a culture which is allways having war. It's not far fetched that they'd embrace being good at war as something good after getting used to it. Simply because people that fight for their clan are heroes. There are all kinds of honor that could develop in cultures like that. From your perspective he might be unhonorable but the only perspective that matters for something as subjective as honor is his own and that of his clan. You can say that it's poorly written idc but Honor just is something that changes from person to person and culture to culture. It's not something thats written down or even 100% logical. It is more like a feeling.
So, how is betraying Sylvana's horde and in process killing hundreds od your old mates, just because you hate sylvanas honorable? Saurfaung is a dirty honorless traitor and thrall is even worse.
Honour is not a "feeling" is a law. But just like you said every civilization had their take on it. So for a normal orc,the laws of his clan are the only laws. And just like ik the real world countries have different laws,honour have variations between nations. Also,i should recommend you to check more history because many european civilizations agreed with the japanese sense of honour a good example were romans and the germanic tribes,for them cowardice and military failure were supposed to sealed by ones dead.
@@UthertheNIGHTbringer and the Queen Val'kyr is related to Alliance how exactly? Genn had no business there, other than "prevent Horde from getting a new weapon".
@@UthertheNIGHTbringer He was under no orders to engage the Horde or betray their pact against the Legion, but lo and behold he did just that and got out of it scot free. Who cares whether not subjugating the queen of valkyres is a morally bad thing, it would've benefitted the Forsaken and empower their fight against the Legion.
Orc honor is comparable to bushido. Blizzard weren't ashamed to stick it out in the open, like most of their borrowed ideas. It's alright to conquer, but you fight with honor and you die with honor. You let them know you're coming so you can show your superiority. You fight as hard as you can because to not do so is to disrespect them. You do this because you didn't win against them otherwise. You 'cheated' them. More importantly, you've cheated yourself; you didn't prove yourself. You are weak. Saurfang lost his way in his age because he was so saddened that he had found no honorable death. He sought one, sure, but he was such a mighty warrior that he always survived. Garrosh was a piece of garbage because he did things like bombing Theramore. Dropping a bomb like a coward is different from launching an attack with some catapults. Enemies with half a mind can expect or notice catapults; you are not responsible for them being blind. It's a new piece on the board for them to fight around and deal with. Sneaking an atomic bomb into a neutral city and blowing it up isn't honorable; it's a cowardly act.
All you need to do to prove yourself right is to go back and listen to the Blademaster quotes from Warcraft 3. czcams.com/video/kBd671LvlZk/video.html I mean the guy is literally carrying a samurai sword lol
I'd add to this that the inconsistencies in Saurfang's code of honour aren't a sign that he has no real sense of honour or that Orcish honour is whatever any odd orc thinks it is. I'd argue, instead, that they're a manifestation of the ideological conflict between the system of honour he was born into and the system he was taught later in life by Thrall.
The one thing that doesn't make sense in all of this, Why did Saurfang ever agree to the rogue sneak attack? you don't just have someone order 50 stealthy throat cutting assassinations, then suddenly remember, "Oh yeah, attacking someone from behind is the opposite of honorable", either he's a gigantic hypocrite well past redemption Or Not, he can't be both these polar opposite things, either one whenever is more convenient to the plot.
*乃ㄖ乃ㄖ * Did you have evidence or you're one of those idiots who think a character is gay for be pacific? Also at some point, Anduin has a crush on a Female Dwarf, and Anduin also finds female Draenei attractive, so he's not gay.
Tbh it was probably supposed to be a joke. I don't even remember posting this, but I still think it's kinda funny soooo... stop being so stiff and take things with a grain of salt. Edit: Just to be clear, I like Anduin, and I'm aware that he's not homosexual.
@@grigi3 Oh, it was a joke? It is hard to tell since the Warcraft community is full of hatemonger fool that stereotype Anduin a lot. Also, I like to be stiff it is part of my charm kid. :p
The Alliance would come for the Horde eventually (or find a reason to). There was never going to be a lasting peace. Especially between the Forsaken and the Alliance.
Shi disrespect traditional Mak'gora be backstabbing Malfurion. That's dishonored the whole fight. Every Horde player willoughby fine with Saurfang's death, if hapend's in 1v1 Mak'gora against Malfurion. It's Honorable death and that's what Saurfang wants.
@@filtousik It wasn't Mak'gora though they didn't duel it was a war where two people happened to fight against eachother. There were no set rules that should be discussed before a Mak'gora. It was a war there was nothing dishonorable about it. Malfurion should have died there and Saurfang didn't want to because for no reason at all. This was not a honorable duel to start with.
The horde leaders are spineless cowards. They have all fought in Voljins rebellion and what do they do against sylvannas? Complain that she’s evil. Most of them have close relations with one or more alliance leaders who would happily aid them with another horde uprising and end the war all together. Sylvannas has the loyalty of the forsaken and maybe some orcs but the rest of the races including the zandalari don’t like her all that much and would have more than enough to revolt against her. Combine that with aid from the alliance and she’s screwed. There’s so much potential for all of the horde leaders but instead they’re written under the foot of a dumb elf who follow her orders without question even if they know it’s wrong. Saurfang is written like Moses who’s going to rise up and save his people when in actuality the whole horde would rise up and crush her and the battle for Azeroth would be over in a week.
I agree. Although I'd say that they are cowards mostly because of the fact they are too cowardly to fight and do what must be done in a war in order to win it. In real life, bombings and air strikes are commonplace on the battlefield, but when Sylvanas does something similar the rest of the horde leaders simper and whine about their "honor" meanwhile their people are being killed. I may not fully agree with Sylvanas, but as least she isn't afraid to fight and win a war.
Roberto Urbas The horde have allies in the alliance like jaina and anduin that will back them because they know it will end the war and get rid of sylvannas. It’s not a civil war it’s what would end the war.
I actually agree with his video. She does want the horde to win, she would do anything for the horde to win. She doesn't want to die an "honorable death" or some bullshit like that. She wants to do it the way that it should be done. Why would anyone start a war with rules in it. If it is a war. You do everything in order to win that war. She is the one that actually sees that tbh. It's like in our world. We have wars and we try to win them, doesn't matter how we win. She sees that pointless sacrifices and heroic deaths won't give anything but disadvantages.
Asmongold and alliance fanboys got triggered hard by this vid. Anytime you have someone saying "nope" to everything you say with no cohesive reason as to why, you got under their skin. 😂
I think it's a bit hypocritical when he mentions the alliance of old doing bad things to the blood elves and killing the horde, but whenever someone points out that the horde used to do even worse things, they are always told that, "that's not fair, that's the _old_ horde that isn't the same as Thrall's horde, or Voljin's horde!" If that's the case it is the same for the alliance, as that was the alliance of the seven human kingdoms, not the alliance of Stormwind that has elves, draenei, etc. Also Greymane only attacked Sylvanas because he thought she was responsible for the horde abandoning the alliance on the broken shore. He did not know that it was a tactical retreat because the horde was getting their assess kicked. He even says at the end of the Before The Storm novel, after watching Sylvanas slaughter her own people, that he has nothing against the forsaken, he just doesn't like Sylvanas. Sylvanas even said she wanted to start a war because she believed it was inevitable, even though Anduin would never have fought against her, until she attacked Teldrassil. So her saying the alliance only wants peace when it suits them is a blatant lie and either she's deluded, or she's just being deceitful. Also just because Saurafang is willing to do "some" of the things Sylvanas wants to do, does not mean his sense of honor is inconsistent or that he is a hypocrit. That is like saying it is hypocritical for someone to be okay with killing for self defense, but is against murdering someone in cold blood. While both involve killing a person, there is a subtle difference between the two actions, one being justifiable and the other being heinous. That's the difference between Saurafang and Sylvanas's honor. But the guy who made the video is a known Sylvanas shill.
Both stormheim and Camp T would like a word with you about the alliance not wanting war. Both happened before the horde made its moves, both provoked sylvanas and both are current. You don’t poke a warchief and not expect to get at least that in return. Alliance loving Baine might have been fine with it. Saurfang was not and neither war sylvanas except sylvanas took it a step further. Hence the divide. She only did so AFTER saurfang betrayed the horde by not killing malfurion who is an enemy.
@@sgtc9635 I already explained Stormheim and as far as Camp T, that was in cata and before Anduin became the leader of the alliance. And as far back as can be remembered, Anduin wanted peace between the Horde and Alliance. He made this known to pretty much everyone he met, alliance and horde. The BfA war was also not started because of Camp T, if you read the Before The Storm novel you'll know Sylvanas intentionally tries to start the war because she thinks it is inevitable, despite the fact the Anduin would never do so unprovoked. Both sides may have started shit in the past, but the current war was started because Sylvanas wanted it.
In The End she wanted it. So why provoke her in stormheim. Genn even says it is a personal issue not an issue of enslaving the valk queen. “You took my future so I am taking yours” it could be argued genn started this war. The alliance has no bond to the valk queen. And why take that which would make sylvanas feel more insecure leading to war thoughts. Anduin talks from both sides of his mouth. She called it perfectly, “you want peace when it suits you little lion”. “Muzzle your dog”. By Anduin not muzzling his dog he let war happen. He let genn fuel sylvanas. So sylvanas whent to saurfang the traitor and asked him to plan a war. He did but did not follow through with killing malfurion the objective of that small battle. So she had to push a large force projection which failed as a decent portion of the elves survived with vegeance and hope. Genn and saurfang started this war. One for petty private issues with a enemy faction leader, the other for a random feeling of personal honor
@@sgtc9635 Looking back I'd say you're likely right about Greymane having a hand in this, but Malfurion's survival is Sylvanas's fault as much as Saurafang's since after Saurafang axed Malfurion, Sylvanas was still there and could have finished him off herself. I think it was more than that I think she wanted to hurt the night elves so badly that they'd be crippled so that's why she burned the tree. Although I aline more with win at most costs, rather than Sylvanas's any cost mentality. I do not agree with going out of your way to kill civilians, unless you have to, like women or kids with a bomb strapped to them, and I do not agree with chemical warfare, like the plague, or scorching the land, which I'd also what the plague does. All of those things are against the Geneva Conventions and are not typical in, The Rules Of Engagement. But at the same time I do not agree with Saurafang either, I think he and the other horde leaders are cowardly and as much as people might not like to admit, would likely have already lost to the alliance if it were not for her tactics and way she engages war.
@@Traditional_American She was not close obliviously. Since Tyrande got there before her. How was she supposed to kill him when she did not expect Saurfang to betray her when he knew what would happen if he did.
One conception of Saurfang's honour is a form of militaristic just war theory. He operates with a code of conduct that allows for just aggression between himself and his enemies, not treating the initiation of conflict and reactive self-defence as morally different. Orcs will always be at war, and that is okay as long as it operates within honourable means. These means are maintaining a distinction between acts that seek to maximise military utility and minimise harm to noncombatants, and acts that simply create any form of military utility. This is the point of disagreement between Saurfang and Syvanas, that there are legitimate and illegitimate acts of aggression and violence. Sylvanas has adopted a "war is hell" doctrine where the ends completely justify the means, while Saurfang accepts both limits and the possibility that those limits may endanger the survival of himself and horde.
You would be right except Saurfang is a damn senile fool,cause apparently doing things that would end in Horde people getting killed just because "is not honorable" or "lets own Sylvanas" is the contrary of what you said,besides the imbecile was obssesed with dying.
*Tauren would never have tolerated burning a World Tree.* A World Tree is a blessing of the Earthmother, their divine being, their All That Is, and it's practically confirmed that Elune is the Earthmother. She is the only 'true' deity in that lore that exists. Their entire culture, their entire society is not just based around respecting her, but also around respecting nature as a whole. The fact they tolerated Sylvanas' attack ruins the game's lore by spitting in the Tauren's faces. Saurfang was an ally to the Tauren people. Burning a World Tree means Tauren go neutral or join the Alliance. This game is dildos now. Forget about it.
The "world tree" Teldrassil was an overgrown stump in the middle of the ocean planted by fandral who was an old god puppet, until not so long ago it was corrupted by those same old gods. People act like teldrassil is a big deal but it didn't even exist back in wc3, which means the tree is 10 to 15 years old I'm sure the taurens have things more sacred to care about. Lastly, no elune isn't the earth mother, if anything elune COULD be mu'sha, the deity of the moon for taurens. It's pretty clear the " earth mother " is azeroth herself
Elune is not the Earthmother, Azeroth is, watch the new ingame cinematic... Baine says "We wage war, while the Earthmother dies" Sylvanas sent the druids and most of the tauren to Silithus, to check the sword wound, while she and Saurfang executed the attack on teldrassil, that's why Baine is on Saurfangs side, he spoke against the burning check your facts dude
Everything Amongold says about Thrall is nonsense. There are differences between cultural concepts of honor, of course. But that merely means that at least one of the differing cultures must be mistaken about right and wrong. When we condemn the actions of others (or ourselves) on moral grounds we are not expressing an opinion or a personal preference, we are appealing to a universal objective standard. You can brazen it out, and say, with INTERNAL logical consistency, that all systems of morality are arbitrary (and thus none have the qualifying universality and are perfectly meaningless). But you can't stop making moral judgements. No matter how you try to guard against it, you will find yourself condemning an outrage. And we needn't take seriously a world view that cannot be lived. In real life the moral codes of most successful societies in history are remarkably similar. czcams.com/video/TddUarSKniw/video.html czcams.com/video/bdos6zUk27Q/video.html I forgot where I heard the story of a fashionable woman who was holding forth to a priest on how all morality was relative and there was no universal right and wrong. The priest took the woman's purse and hung it over his shoulder. The woman said "You can't do that!" "Why not?" the priest replied.
Not necessarily. Also moral absolutism is not the same as moral universalism, I think people also misunderstand moral relativism by assuming it means all morals are relative when it's only one variation of it. One only has to look as far back as the 20th century and compare society's treatment of certain groups which weren't seen as immoral.
Saurfang s a thinker that understands that to be a successful and honourable leader, you need the same in an opponent. Tribe interpretations are irrelevant when your personal ideology is to earn respect because you've seen death, experienced loss and respect that some, even one, of your opposition leaders have the same moralistic stance. Screaming 'respect me because I will not let you dominate me' seem like a valid reason to wage war, to me. Equally, respecting that your opposition feels the same way, by and large, is reason enough to save an enemy life (Malufurion). It is honourable in Saurfang's eyes to spare a leader angered by his own losses.
Wow player - Arthas revived her because she was good commander Warcraft player - You know she was kinda shitty commander and was revived just to open the gate.... So yep on this line....
Imagine a plot revolving around the idea of the night elves being completely stumped by a basic bitch Horde stealth opp. They have only been fighting the Sayters for 10,000 years.
Baldy does not understand one thing: Alliance never viewed Horde as their ally nor their friend, yeah Anduin may be all about friendship and rainbow, but what about Greymane, Jaina and other who share their ideas? I can't imagine Greymane just sitting idle and not plotting anything behind Anduin's back, he would use Azerite to build powerful weaponry and pull a sneaky on the Horde and on Sylvanas and she knows it. Taking strategic advantage over new resource is important, break ranks of your enemies is even more important. However Sourfang is so filled with soy, that he can't make a right move when it's necessary, so Sylvanas have to do it her way. Narrow-mindness of alliance-only player here is just insulting.
And Horde assuming shit out of their asses is even more insulting. Genn was more then fine with just sitting back for a moment, he even said that he only hates SYlvanas personally, not all the Forsaken.
Can we take a moment to talk about how useless Malfurion has been in the last 2 expansions... He is the most OP Druid to ever walk Azeroth , but he does nothing... Also the Alliance has 10k year old leaders like Malfurion and Tyrande, they have Velen, litteraly any Alliance leader has more experience leading than Anduin... Why Is the the leader of the Alliance?
2 things here. The Horde attacked Alliance in times of peace during Ashran. The alliance wasn't there picking flowers, nor was Sylvanas in stormheim picking flowers either. Secondly there has not been a time of peace between the undead and worgen. Genn took mercs into stormheim. The alliance general was sent as good faith. The admiral had her mission and it ended when her ship crashed.
Skyfire : Survived having a literal raid boss fight, one is a tauren that spam Shockwave by stomping the ground, and a god damn dragon landing on it, constantly being on fire while the fight is on. Anduin : "Hey uhh, don't attack unless you have to" Genn : *Bombard Forsaken fleet out of nowhere* Skyfire several seconds later : *Crashed and broken to pieces* Genn is a shit character.
@@LordFakeGodz yes bombing boats with plague is a good idea. Gilneas was plagued bombed. In fact Sylvanas cant seem to win unless she bombs something. If it wasnt for genn there wouldnt be bfa. Sylvanas would have won already. He's a character bent on vengence after what happened to varian and the broken shore. It was also old wounds which again sylvanas started.
People fail to realize that Orcs Honor is based on the mythological Viking Honor. Go read about Viking Gods, and how they think about Honor, and you will understand where blizzard is coming from. (Not that they always make it work correctly, many writers, some suck, but the idea is there.) Victory is important to viking honor. But Death in battle and courage is also honorable. Honor is not betraying your brothers in arms. But also culling a leader that is using his army only to his gains. Lying, using underhanded tatics is acceptable. Even Odin did this many times. But butting in on a one on one fair fight is not honorable. Your worhty is based on your skills, and if you are losing on a one on one, you deserve the death. Now on a war, using underhanded tatics to win against enemy army is smart and advised by their honor code. They are only weapons on your arsenal. They are not "knights" with chivalry, and that will never backstab anyone. But they have a different and more pratical code. It is based on trusting your brothers in arms, doing what is necessary to win, being smart, and being strong, and proving said strenght against your opponents. I am far from an specalist on this, so i cannot exactly explain all details about mythological viking honor, but its something around that.
Oh, btw, Saurfang did not kill Malfurion because he saw that his leader was WEAKER then enemy leader, and his interference to SAVE HER was an dishonorable blow. Remember, strenght proves worth. If Malfurion was stronger, he deserved to win over Sylvannas. It was her weakness that caused this.
People dont appreciate Sylvanas, everyone continually attributes the logic of the living to her "flawed actions". Sylvanas is the strongest force for the greater good on Azeroth.
No, his idea of honor is pretty straightforward and has quite a few common beliefs. He views people differently. A few nameless Night Elf Soldiers are just enemies, pawns on a battlefield for him to wage war against. He doesn't care how they die, just that they die through superior skill. An assassin literally, you know, assassinating them, is an attack of skill. However with Malfurion, he isn't a nameless soldier. He is a leader, and a well known, powerful enemy. If Saurfang is going to kill him, he wants to prove that he can do it himself, one on one, face to face. As for him just 'adding things to what he sees as honorable', no, just because he says something for the first time, does not mean it was 'added'. It just means he hasn't brought it up before. His sense of honor is simple. Face your enemy as they would face you (Night Elves actually prefer stealthy tactics so his plan of using rogues was like beating them at their own game), fight them fairly, and beat them fairly. Do not run or flee from battle, because if you die, you must have died facing your opponent, die fighting. He doesn't add things to this. It's a solid stance of honor.
Yeah the guy making the video is a known Sylvanas shill, also it may be a parody video as it was posted on March 31, so that most people would likely see it on April 1.
She blew up the top part of Lordaeron which was already a fucking destroyed and decrepit wreck. And she blew it up with blight, which Undead are unaffected by so really it would have went back to how it was in a few days once the plague cleared.
Oh my god people are so dumb about this really obvious story. The world trees have been infected by the old gods. Sylvannas is near the presence of yogg saron because her valkyr are on a mission from yogg to keep her alive long enough to start the beginning of the end of the world. Sylvannas is aware that the valkyr don't have her best intentions in mind and only serve much greater masters in the shadowlands. The reason why the shadowlands haven't been explained by chronicle yet is because blizzard isn't ready to explain what's there, and what it wants from sylvannas. She's starting a proxy war with the old gods who have infected Azeroth. She wants to burn open the path to the old gods and give the heroes of Azeroth a chance to fight the old gods for real. She will die at the end of BFA by burning the last world tree. Most of Azeroth who just see her as garrosh 2.0 still won't understand why she did it until blizzard literally just explains why.
As alliance from sylv pov tried to murder her without anyreason in stormheim and alliance was prepared save traitors in arathi which makes alliance instiagted the war.
Actually it’s not. Genn even says it in the cutscene. It was about a personal vengeance not about enslaving anything. She took from him so he took from her. He could care less about the queen valk.
@@UthertheNIGHTbringer What Sgt said and was the Val'kyr alliance? No, I have never seen alliance trying to save other races and they don't since humans are pretty racist in this game. So it was only about vengeance he broke the peace. Then got marshal for it.
@@UthertheNIGHTbringer How was they part of the alliance or affliated with the alliance? They didn't even originally know syl was after val'kyr they were originally after her life which makes it war crime or declaration of war.
@@sgtc9635 look at dialoge at the start of stormheim and that they didn't know sylv was after val'kyrs. Dialogue at the start said they were hunting her an operation to take out warchief of the horde is as much a bad actions from horde pov as twilight hsmmer trying assasinate anduin amd varian at the same time.
"b-but Genn started it! For the Banshee Queen!" Genn went full retard in Stormheim but it ends up being the right choice because Sylvanas was trying to enslave a race of angelic beings to her will after she made a deal with the god of death. Despite that, what happens in Stormheim still doesn't justify instigating a full on faction war over a natural resource while the planet is quite literally bleeding out and dying. The problem is the writing itself is just plain bad. Its Star Wars prequels level writing, where characters act stupid and naive for no reason other than it pushes the plot forward. You would think after the whole Garrosh debacle, there would be more delegation and committee decisions among-st the Horde leaders but nope. Sylvanas says we should slaughter the Night Elves and we do it because SHE DA WARCHIEF SHE DA BOSS. Only Saurfang seems to show any actual push back and it takes Baine 300 years to pull his big boy pants up. Also if you think Sylvanas doesn't have her own motivation for doing any of this then you're either brain dead or a waifufag. The game itself mocks Sylvanas fans yet we still have unironic Sylvanas supporters
22:19 True as fuck , and 24:28 We just saved the world and the first thing to do she did was to fuck with the people that she saved the world with. It's insane!
Sorry for my english but here is what i think, The guy on the video is not completly wrong, the horde has been for very very long time the horde of garrosh's ideology and there is two charactere who has a huge percentage of both aliance and horde ideologies Thrall and Saurfrang, what blizzard is trying to do here is to assimilated Anduin's ideolgy into the horde, a world with peace and shits. But the fact is thats not how the horde is supposed to be, for me Saurfrang and Thrall are way more humans than orcs, ok sylvanas doesn't give a shits about anything but like every single warchief of the horde that has been there before... There are mistakes made from blizzard between a horde who live for the peace and a horde who live to conquer. In this case Horde and Alliance shared the ennemies for quite some times now and what blizzard had to do here is to make decision about what kind of alliance the horde and the alliance are supposed to have.
Blizzard don't want to insert Anduin's ideals into the horde they want Anduin to gain the trust of the horde so that a truce or temporary peace can be made, problem is Genn greymane constantly goes against what he wants, Sylvanas also wants the horde and alliance to burn to the ground so that the forsaken are the only ones left she also constantly provokes or otherwise does shit she knows the alliance won't sit and watch her do
@@floppymcdankus2905 Iam nearly agree with what you say, what i meant by anduin's ideals is "peace & love" things.. I did not say thats bad that anduin have to gain the trust of the horde but i don't like the way it goes, and to me thrall and saufrang are too much humans.. I don't say that the way sylavanas lead the hord is good it just keeps tensions between horde and alliance reasons doesn't matter, the world of warcraft needs it, and if thrall and saufrang become warchief so horde would not existe anymore because they are like the alliance.. Ajnd that suck ! ^^
a lot of warcraft names are just spelled and pronounced in a weird name...I was never sure how to say saurfang...I personally never pronounced "fang" like English, but like "fah-ng"
Now I think about, being ok with killing multiple soldiers, by back stabbing them before war is even declared. But not being ok with killing a leader who at this point has killed hundreds of horde, after the war has been declared, because he didn't see the blow coming is fking stupid.
The mental gymnastics that the guy who made the video goes through to justify basically nothing it pretty fucking amazing. Also when he said that Sylbananas would not have burned the tree if Malfurion died is factual inaccurate. Blizzard literally twitted out that the ONLY reason she burned down the tree was because that dying elf triggered her so she sperged out. You can clearly see that in the cinematic how it was a reactionary action and not a planed one, even soyboythanos and soyfang looked at her like "biiiitch you cray cray?"
So alot of this stems from the fact alot of background lore is in books not everyone reads. Apparently Sylvanas almost killed herself after Arthas died and instead made a pact with the valkyries and showed her the future where the forsaken were doomed to die under garrosh's plan to assault gilneas unless she led them. So she does care about the forsaken as a whole, atleast before BFA.
man its hilarious how out of touch and little asmongold knows about the current expansion and what is truly going on. It's like watching a confused child. Sylvanas is a hero, purposefully making herself a villain so both the horde and alliance will team up against her. Only with the horde and alliance teamed up together will they have a shot at surviving what is to come after 8.2 when azshara releases nzoth from his prison. Sylvanas knows this and everything she is doing is part of the plan to save the world and the horde, even if it means sacrificing herself. There is a reason voljin made her warchief. Not surprising how short sighted most WoW players are and how few people can see the big picture of this expansion.
if Arthas Revived Sylvanas as a Banshee, is the Body she is occupying her real Body or just some random Ranger she found? her Elven Model only appeared in TFT and in Reign of Chaos she was a Heroless Banshee.
She eventually reclaimed her body sealed inside a chest somewhere, during the "dreadlord rebellion" against king arthas. The first undead episode/mission in TFT is somewhat wrong, since she reclaimed the body before she gained free will. An error the game developers haven't bothered to fix.
The Blood Elves in Dalaran were DALARAN citizens, not Horde meaning they were neutral and were subject to genocide just because of their race, a straight up pogrom.
if asmongold sees this comment, it was originally the humans(particularly garithos and his men) who began treating the blood elves like shit in the second campaign in warcraft 3: the frozen throne. at first he was just treating them like they were inferior to them in every way and being very rude, but when Kael'thas had to accept the aid of Lady Vashj and her naga or face total annihilation he didn't listen to them and instead imprisoned them to be executed for "treason" which lead to Kael and his people to say fuck them and follow a different path. when TBC came around and Quel'Thalas was coming back in to the world... Sylvanas, still feeling ties to her home and people, fought endlessly to have the blood elves inducted in to the Horde... so here we are now. the fact of the matter is that the alliance as a whole, as well as the individual races among them, are extremely xenophobic and self righteous, thinking themselves the epitome of morality, righteousness, valor and all else that is good. They totally ignored the fact that the orcs were under demonic control and never once tried to help them and their xenophobia can be ultimately exemplified by the Nightborne questline to recruit them in to the horde. TL:DR they approached the Night Elves first due to their original ties to them but were met like "lol another Elisande could rise up for all we know so gtfo" so they sought out the horde instead, where the blood elves were FAR more welcoming
Saurfang, and Sylvan (plus, Wakanda forever!) are the reason I started playing Alliance again. The writers at Blizz are bipolar as fuck. So, I'd rather be the good guys, because the heroes are easier to ignore.
It's almost as if dying in battle is all he wants, that if he beat his opponent it means his foe cant kill him and that's all he wants. So he feels letting them live is honorable because it's something that cant defend against him and all he seeks is the one that can kill him.
I probably have no place in this discussion as I am not well versed in wow lore and wow politics/culture, but it sounds like orcish honor and pride comes from a root belief of a good battle and a good death. As such all actions that will lead to either of these actions feels like an honorable action, even if it is contradictory to group goals and ideals. As such it can be argued that a universal truth on orcish honor is death on a battle field worthy of them. The means of reaching this death is personal though.
![Assertonsin [Asmongold Stream Reactions]](http://yt3.ggpht.com/ytc/AIdro_kssAjmgpDOSXxMjOBjf0D3Ch-BwtgYtnJEyQHavq6LbQ=s48-c-k-c0x00ffffff-no-rj)
I thought Arthas revived her just because she pissed him off so much during the invasion that he wanted her to come back a miserable banshee.
Well, he didn't say why he did it. But you're right.
Pretty much.
He even says that in wc3.
She wanted a quick death. But he told her that with how much she pissed him off that was never going to happen.
He wanted to humiliate and torture her. So psycho banshee it was for Sylvanas instead
That's what the video says too.
@@LichlordKazam He did. "After all you've put me through, woman, the last thing I'll give you is the peace of death."
@@kolsveinnskraevolding Yes arthas did, but Hiru didn't mention it.
This video is basically just "Hey guys, did you know blizzard writing is inconstant and they make things up as they go along?"
A fault of many an episodic story. A story is almost never any good unless the author knows the ending before he starts writing. This gives even the most action filled serials the "soap opera" feel. Even if it attracts attention, it does not reward it.
The writing is usually at its poorest when they make someone who wasn't a villain into one.
To be fair, not a chance Blizzard had any clue how long they would have to try and keep this story going .
the vid is interesting tho, i wouldnt have thought of all this hadnt have watched it
Hirumaredx: *Explains his point in high detail*
Asmon: *Ignores everything he says* Everybody is wrong except me, get f#*cked!
I'll tell you why Arthas was successful at breaking through Quel'Thalas defenses: Goblins. Goblins and their damn zeppelins.
The elves had a big gay force field like in dalaran supported by 3 pillars, which would not have let any scourge into quel thalas, but some dumbo elf decided to betray his people and assist in disrupting the pillars, letting arthas go freely into the enemy territory, securing his victory
@@vanillaice1412 Well anyone who has played WC3 knows exactly what I mean.
Heroic throw granted me alot of honorable kills in stranglethorn vale. i dont get saurfang regretting it
Yo true!
Bah, The Scarlet Crusaders were obviously the good guys.
Religion of piece ANELE
Scarlets are trash. They are also humans. Bad.
100% agree
In the end the only worthy side to fight for is daddy N'zoth. Tentacles for everyone!
t...thanks...
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Uh...Thanks ? I guess...
Garou, is that you?
to be fair nzoth might be one of old gods and obviously evil. but hes more or less the only old god so far that interacts with the player in not outright im gona kill you now attitude. and if not him destroying and corrupting all life on azeroth as well as turning azeroth into a void titan (yeah imagine that old gods dont want azeroth to die) he would not be such a bad creature to rule everything :D. That said considering how many things azeroth has gone over all this time im more surprised shes not immune to fell and void powers or unable to use them itself at this point.
I think that Sylvanas refered with "i am familiar with death" to her soul being ripped out of her body by arthus, being turned into a banshee, and forced to kill her own kind until she took back control.
I Just love how 'everybody Who disagrees with me is wrong' 😀
‘Every one that disagrees with me is dishonorable’ he was salty that it is hitting home and that the dude called saurfang, and in extention himself, selfish and vapid
But the vid was wrong on alot of levels.
As while it was correct to state that honor is not clearly defined in Orcish culture it ignores the times Saurfang acknowledges that he is imperfect. That the "Path of glory" was the exsact opposite.
That Sylvanas was always selfish and even used Saurfang. And as we know wanted as much war and death as possoble. She was even in on Vol'jins death and every moment she did something "For the Horde", she just wanted more death for her boss.
And it did not change that Saurfangs idioligi of honor matches the Alliances, and general defenition the most.
And battle tactics in a war like minimozing casualties by assassinating guards compared to open battle are diffrent. And battle amongst leaders in Orc and modern Horde culture are duels.
Here is a crazy idea, keep the story consistent. I am not saying characters can't break out of their mold once in a while. But feels stupid how most the people contradict themselves and not get punished for it. Dude let Malfurion live and was vocal about not wanting the tree to urn down. So why is he A. Alive and B. How is he still in charge of anything? If one of your Generals is in open dissension about how you do things, you don't let that person keep doing it. Secretly kill them and blame it on the enemy or imprison him. She waited too long to kill him. Literally have access to assassins and spies, yet you try to help him escape and then go after him.
At least challenge him an Orcish fight to the death to prove superiority. He is old and slow. You have magic, if Thrall can break the rules and use magic, so can you.
"This video is basically propaganda" - Wow Asmongold gets it! Yep totally true it is.
Love your videos, man!
Love your vids Hiru. Make a vid next on how its not wrong to execute the Leader of the cowhippies, because he is a traitor (twice).
I see you watch people who watch your videos, a man of culture
Notice me Hirumaredx-senpai
Your video is wrong, Hirumaredx.
7:35 "Nobody like him" that makes it ok.
That's wow justice.
even though im an alliance man his death pissed me off so much
I have a feeling Asmon doesn't know a lot about Warcraft lore, and only reads up what is fed to him in the game and mostly on the Alliance side.
Especially on the blood elf subject, so a group loyal to only Garrosh that has no affiliation to the Regent Lord betrayed the interest of Dalaran and stole the Divine Bell. And it's suddenly justified for Jaina to go and imprison every Blood Elves regardless of involvement or fault merely because they were Blood Elves, and slaughter any that tried to run or defend themselves? It's made any even bigger oopsie since Lor'Thermar was actually planning on defecting to the Alliance's side in the wake of Garrosh.
Or what about Warcraft 3? When the Human general Garithos in charge of the Alliance sent Kael and his blood elves to fight the Scourge without their warriors and only mages and priests? Which led to the Blood Elves needing to forge an alliance with the Naga to even survive and push back the Scourge. And how were the Elves repaid? By being imprisoned and sentenced to execution for treason for consorting with the Naga, because of a situation they were in thanks to the ridiculous orders of an incompetent Alliance Human General. And the Elves were tethering on the brink of extinction at this point too!
It's no wonder why the Blood Elves absolutely dislike and distrust the Alliance.
I mean he has barely any interest in any games or lore outside of what he always does. Asmongold is always poorly educated on things.
Exactly, he has right to state his opinion but when it comes to lore, most of the time, it is retarded
STOP USING GARITHOS! He's from Lordaeron and part of the "Alliance" of from that time (human only). He's legitimately more forsaken than modern day "alliance". In the end, like abused housewives with stockholme they went running back to their newly immortal abusers with their alliance to the forsaken. The excuse for the Blood Elves not joining the alliance has a great deal more to do with their ancient antagonism with the Night Elves, who were actively spying and committing acts of saboteur against the Blood Elves.
Seriously, Garithos is as much alliance as Nathanos Blightcaller is. What I despise alliance side is the pussification of the Night Elves and the blatant incompetence of the post-cataclysm writers who missed the memo that the Night Elves historically are just as nationalistic, war-like and antagonistic as the orcs are. I wish I could say there's elements of intolerance in the modern southern humans in the alliance but throughout the entirety of lore they've maintained absolute lawful good untarnished reputation. The only situation the humans of the current alliance have EVER done a shitty act was when they didn't pay the stonemasons during the rebuilding of storm wind and caused the stonemasons (Edwin VanCleef etc) to revolt.
@@KKlawm There is so much wrong with your comment I don't even know where to begin.
@@alex_ho you can't because he isn't wrong.
Actually Jaina was pissed because a member of the Sunreavers helped Garrosh get the divine bell. A weapon made out of the flesh of a titan keeper that was effectively a fucking nuke. Of course Jaina was pissed when Garrosh got his hands on another fucking WMD
Aaaaand she used that as an excuse to genocide elves who didnt knew about the operation instead of arresting the responsable and his lackies. The Kirin Tor is a council,yes they elect a leader but is not an absolute dictator. The elves were members and citizens of Dalaran and if their inmediate leader betrayed Dalaran,the Kirin Tor needed to actually deal with the responsable AND get a new representative for the belfs. Jaina didnt do that. She always was a crazy bitch.
Blizz just went batshit carzy with all the "Honor" they used this word so often that they completly lost its meaning and just use it to paint (very shaky) morals
Honor is "muh feels" for the Social Justice Horde.
WIth BFA we, Horde, lost what is Honor, we lost Lok'tar ogar. Because Honor and Lok'tar ogar are same thing. Lok'tar ogar/Victory or Death means put everything you have in the fight and die or wins, bouth endings lead to "Honor". If you run out of batlle, poison, burn or let enemy bleed out and other nonpersonal acting in fight is dishonorable. All Sylvanas acts of selfishness pist of whole "true" Horde.
A few minutes in, the denial is already hilarious if annoying
if *not
Its at these moments you realize Asmongold is really dumb even when Hiruma presents the facts and do some deep researchs.
@@Kyrrua_ You guys realize this is a april fools video lmao
@@Kyrrua_ Asmon intentionally upsets his chat so they spam the feed and boost comment numbers. Salty people write more often.
@@Twzy59 is it tho?
Lol asmongold really can't get away from the "I play alliance so everything I do should be good" side huh? what is he so afraid of? why should there be no way that the alliance can be bad in any way? It's just really sad
Asmon is such a huge alliance fanboy, the alliance is way more resentful and almost always attacks first to "purify the lands"
Hernán Alfonsín no you MORON
Yes. He is such a fanboy and can't offer counterarguments. Instead he screams around in denial
Warcraft 3 shows most of alliance humans are extremely racist. Now Alduin is trying to stop all the war between horde and alliance but a lot of the horde can't forgive the past
@@cdshadow Exactly, the horse invaded Azeroth twice because they were being controlled by the burning legion. When victorious a second time, the humans started enslaving the orcs because they thought it more humane than making them extinct (I mean, humans irl have been enslaving the losing faction for a very very long time, probably back to the first civilizations we know of, and people in Africa are still enslaving each other). This all changed when Thrall was freed after being raised humans and enslaved by an abusive one. Thrall changed the horde and made them find a land of their own so they can build a city and seek friendship with humans, they worked together with Jaina and allied with taurens, but the humans didn't forgive them at all, and with Jaina's father being the instigator and having him die at the hands of the horde, she turned into an edgy teen and the war against orcs started again. Hell, Sylvannas tried to become part of the alliance because she was an elf, but they told her they would never forgive the scourge even if they said they broke free from the Lich King's influence. The alliance are the ones depicted to show and undying desire for vengeance after people who were brainwashed and controlled by evil forces. Garrosh "the greatest leader of the horde" was born from that endless conflict too.
@@rRekko let's not forget the reason Kael'thas Sunstrider had to go to Illidan for his people to survive. Leaderships will be divided, I am actually curious about the way we will go. We have Baine, Lor'themar, Thrall, Saurfang, Thalyssra, Rexxar, Anduin, Shaw, Jaina on one hand, those leaders would agree on siding with each other. But what about Alleria, Genn, Malfurion and Tyrande? I am not sure about Genn, he can agree on Anduin's peace but I am pretty sure Tyrande will stay in her Night Warrior form for a long time and due to Tyrande, Malfurion as well. Even if we see a big twist to show Sylvanas' reasoning, Tyrande won't stop anymore
Honor is something that differs from person to person and even more from culture to culture.
In feudal Japan it was very unhonorable to flee from a battle. To that point western culture agrees.
But they've gone further. They felt like it was the honorable thing to kill yourself if you did something like that.
Now imagine a culture which is allways having war. It's not far fetched that they'd embrace being good at war as something good after getting used to it. Simply because people that fight for their clan are heroes.
There are all kinds of honor that could develop in cultures like that.
From your perspective he might be unhonorable but the only perspective that matters for something as subjective as honor is his own and that of his clan.
You can say that it's poorly written idc but Honor just is something that changes from person to person and culture to culture. It's not something thats written down or even 100% logical.
It is more like a feeling.
So, how is betraying Sylvana's horde and in process killing hundreds od your old mates, just because you hate sylvanas honorable?
Saurfaung is a dirty honorless traitor and thrall is even worse.
@@Strongest_under_heaven Indeed.
Honour is not a "feeling" is a law. But just like you said every civilization had their take on it. So for a normal orc,the laws of his clan are the only laws. And just like ik the real world countries have different laws,honour have variations between nations. Also,i should recommend you to check more history because many european civilizations agreed with the japanese sense of honour a good example were romans and the germanic tribes,for them cowardice and military failure were supposed to sealed by ones dead.
Genn started the war in Stormheim. Don't know why everyone is putting the blame exclusively on Sylvanas.
And he didn't got court marshalled for it. Which led to further distrust of the Alliance in the Horde.
Guldan led to orcs into Azeroth and invaded the eastern kingdoms
@@alex_ho Why would he? Genn thought Sylvanas was up to no good, and lo and behold he catches her trying to subjugate the Queen Val'kyr.
@@UthertheNIGHTbringer and the Queen Val'kyr is related to Alliance how exactly? Genn had no business there, other than "prevent Horde from getting a new weapon".
@@UthertheNIGHTbringer He was under no orders to engage the Horde or betray their pact against the Legion, but lo and behold he did just that and got out of it scot free.
Who cares whether not subjugating the queen of valkyres is a morally bad thing, it would've benefitted the Forsaken and empower their fight against the Legion.
Orc honor is comparable to bushido. Blizzard weren't ashamed to stick it out in the open, like most of their borrowed ideas. It's alright to conquer, but you fight with honor and you die with honor. You let them know you're coming so you can show your superiority. You fight as hard as you can because to not do so is to disrespect them. You do this because you didn't win against them otherwise. You 'cheated' them. More importantly, you've cheated yourself; you didn't prove yourself. You are weak.
Saurfang lost his way in his age because he was so saddened that he had found no honorable death. He sought one, sure, but he was such a mighty warrior that he always survived.
Garrosh was a piece of garbage because he did things like bombing Theramore. Dropping a bomb like a coward is different from launching an attack with some catapults. Enemies with half a mind can expect or notice catapults; you are not responsible for them being blind. It's a new piece on the board for them to fight around and deal with. Sneaking an atomic bomb into a neutral city and blowing it up isn't honorable; it's a cowardly act.
You first sentence summed it all. The burning blades even, are basically samurai.
All you need to do to prove yourself right is to go back and listen to the Blademaster quotes from Warcraft 3.
czcams.com/video/kBd671LvlZk/video.html
I mean the guy is literally carrying a samurai sword lol
I'd add to this that the inconsistencies in Saurfang's code of honour aren't a sign that he has no real sense of honour or that Orcish honour is whatever any odd orc thinks it is. I'd argue, instead, that they're a manifestation of the ideological conflict between the system of honour he was born into and the system he was taught later in life by Thrall.
The one thing that doesn't make sense in all of this, Why did Saurfang ever agree to the rogue sneak attack? you don't just have someone order 50 stealthy throat cutting assassinations, then suddenly remember, "Oh yeah, attacking someone from behind is the opposite of honorable", either he's a gigantic hypocrite well past redemption Or Not, he can't be both these polar opposite things, either one whenever is more convenient to the plot.
Bad writing.
Asmongold foretold Sylvanas only caring about herself.
I mean it was pretty obvious since WC3 before WoW even released.
Its just bad writing.
This will forever be an underrated comment
oh well, it's a game.
I remember warcraft 3, that was so long ago, but without it, I would probably never play WoW...
Games arent allowed to have good writing?
@@randjan8592 so games can't have good writing? fuck off
Brooo. Straight up.
0:50 Asmongold: "She's so hot dude"
Teldrassil burns... :|
That intent vs action was an eye opener and could be put into almost every hot button issue in modern day politics.
true, a different perspective ^^
"Anduin is not morally gray, he's morally gay."
*Destroyed*
If Anduin's gay, he needs to hit me up.
*乃ㄖ乃ㄖ
* Did you have evidence or you're one of those idiots who think a character is gay for be pacific?
Also at some point, Anduin has a crush on a Female Dwarf, and Anduin also finds female Draenei attractive, so he's not gay.
Tbh it was probably supposed to be a joke.
I don't even remember posting this, but I still think it's kinda funny soooo... stop being so stiff and take things with a grain of salt.
Edit: Just to be clear, I like Anduin, and I'm aware that he's not homosexual.
@@grigi3 Oh, it was a joke? It is hard to tell since the Warcraft community is full of hatemonger fool that stereotype Anduin a lot.
Also, I like to be stiff it is part of my charm kid. :p
The Alliance would come for the Horde eventually (or find a reason to). There was never going to be a lasting peace. Especially between the Forsaken and the Alliance.
almost as bad writing as Arya killing the night king
to early
Saving your warchief = dishonorable? ...mkay
How is it saving? If anything Sylvanas went 1v1 Malfurion and Saurfang hit him in the back...
Shi disrespect traditional Mak'gora be backstabbing Malfurion. That's dishonored the whole fight. Every Horde player willoughby fine with Saurfang's death, if hapend's in 1v1 Mak'gora against Malfurion. It's Honorable death and that's what Saurfang wants.
@@filtousik It wasn't Mak'gora though they didn't duel it was a war where two people happened to fight against eachother. There were no set rules that should be discussed before a Mak'gora. It was a war there was nothing dishonorable about it. Malfurion should have died there and Saurfang didn't want to because for no reason at all. This was not a honorable duel to start with.
The horde leaders are spineless cowards. They have all fought in Voljins rebellion and what do they do against sylvannas? Complain that she’s evil. Most of them have close relations with one or more alliance leaders who would happily aid them with another horde uprising and end the war all together. Sylvannas has the loyalty of the forsaken and maybe some orcs but the rest of the races including the zandalari don’t like her all that much and would have more than enough to revolt against her. Combine that with aid from the alliance and she’s screwed. There’s so much potential for all of the horde leaders but instead they’re written under the foot of a dumb elf who follow her orders without question even if they know it’s wrong. Saurfang is written like Moses who’s going to rise up and save his people when in actuality the whole horde would rise up and crush her and the battle for Azeroth would be over in a week.
I agree. Although I'd say that they are cowards mostly because of the fact they are too cowardly to fight and do what must be done in a war in order to win it. In real life, bombings and air strikes are commonplace on the battlefield, but when Sylvanas does something similar the rest of the horde leaders simper and whine about their "honor" meanwhile their people are being killed. I may not fully agree with Sylvanas, but as least she isn't afraid to fight and win a war.
Roberto Urbas The horde have allies in the alliance like jaina and anduin that will back them because they know it will end the war and get rid of sylvannas. It’s not a civil war it’s what would end the war.
I actually agree with his video. She does want the horde to win, she would do anything for the horde to win. She doesn't want to die an "honorable death" or some bullshit like that. She wants to do it the way that it should be done. Why would anyone start a war with rules in it. If it is a war. You do everything in order to win that war. She is the one that actually sees that tbh. It's like in our world. We have wars and we try to win them, doesn't matter how we win. She sees that pointless sacrifices and heroic deaths won't give anything but disadvantages.
Asmongold and alliance fanboys got triggered hard by this vid. Anytime you have someone saying "nope" to everything you say with no cohesive reason as to why, you got under their skin. 😂
His only reasoning: "nobody likes them, so who cares"
@@MASHo1992 Or: they're awesome and I like them so everything they do and believe is right. Basically proving the point of the vid 😂
@@garytaylor3880 Well, the video is for April's Fools so theres no real point because most of the facts were biased but Asmongold took it seriously.
I think it's a bit hypocritical when he mentions the alliance of old doing bad things to the blood elves and killing the horde, but whenever someone points out that the horde used to do even worse things, they are always told that, "that's not fair, that's the _old_ horde that isn't the same as Thrall's horde, or Voljin's horde!" If that's the case it is the same for the alliance, as that was the alliance of the seven human kingdoms, not the alliance of Stormwind that has elves, draenei, etc. Also Greymane only attacked Sylvanas because he thought she was responsible for the horde abandoning the alliance on the broken shore. He did not know that it was a tactical retreat because the horde was getting their assess kicked. He even says at the end of the Before The Storm novel, after watching Sylvanas slaughter her own people, that he has nothing against the forsaken, he just doesn't like Sylvanas. Sylvanas even said she wanted to start a war because she believed it was inevitable, even though Anduin would never have fought against her, until she attacked Teldrassil. So her saying the alliance only wants peace when it suits them is a blatant lie and either she's deluded, or she's just being deceitful. Also just because Saurafang is willing to do "some" of the things Sylvanas wants to do, does not mean his sense of honor is inconsistent or that he is a hypocrit. That is like saying it is hypocritical for someone to be okay with killing for self defense, but is against murdering someone in cold blood. While both involve killing a person, there is a subtle difference between the two actions, one being justifiable and the other being heinous. That's the difference between Saurafang and Sylvanas's honor. But the guy who made the video is a known Sylvanas shill.
Both stormheim and Camp T would like a word with you about the alliance not wanting war. Both happened before the horde made its moves, both provoked sylvanas and both are current. You don’t poke a warchief and not expect to get at least that in return. Alliance loving Baine might have been fine with it. Saurfang was not and neither war sylvanas except sylvanas took it a step further. Hence the divide. She only did so AFTER saurfang betrayed the horde by not killing malfurion who is an enemy.
@@sgtc9635 I already explained Stormheim and as far as Camp T, that was in cata and before Anduin became the leader of the alliance. And as far back as can be remembered, Anduin wanted peace between the Horde and Alliance. He made this known to pretty much everyone he met, alliance and horde. The BfA war was also not started because of Camp T, if you read the Before The Storm novel you'll know Sylvanas intentionally tries to start the war because she thinks it is inevitable, despite the fact the Anduin would never do so unprovoked. Both sides may have started shit in the past, but the current war was started because Sylvanas wanted it.
In The End she wanted it. So why provoke her in stormheim. Genn even says it is a personal issue not an issue of enslaving the valk queen. “You took my future so I am taking yours” it could be argued genn started this war. The alliance has no bond to the valk queen. And why take that which would make sylvanas feel more insecure leading to war thoughts. Anduin talks from both sides of his mouth. She called it perfectly, “you want peace when it suits you little lion”. “Muzzle your dog”. By Anduin not muzzling his dog he let war happen. He let genn fuel sylvanas. So sylvanas whent to saurfang the traitor and asked him to plan a war. He did but did not follow through with killing malfurion the objective of that small battle. So she had to push a large force projection which failed as a decent portion of the elves survived with vegeance and hope. Genn and saurfang started this war. One for petty private issues with a enemy faction leader, the other for a random feeling of personal honor
@@sgtc9635 Looking back I'd say you're likely right about Greymane having a hand in this, but Malfurion's survival is Sylvanas's fault as much as Saurafang's since after Saurafang axed Malfurion, Sylvanas was still there and could have finished him off herself. I think it was more than that I think she wanted to hurt the night elves so badly that they'd be crippled so that's why she burned the tree. Although I aline more with win at most costs, rather than Sylvanas's any cost mentality. I do not agree with going out of your way to kill civilians, unless you have to, like women or kids with a bomb strapped to them, and I do not agree with chemical warfare, like the plague, or scorching the land, which I'd also what the plague does. All of those things are against the Geneva Conventions and are not typical in, The Rules Of Engagement. But at the same time I do not agree with Saurafang either, I think he and the other horde leaders are cowardly and as much as people might not like to admit, would likely have already lost to the alliance if it were not for her tactics and way she engages war.
@@Traditional_American She was not close obliviously. Since Tyrande got there before her. How was she supposed to kill him when she did not expect Saurfang to betray her when he knew what would happen if he did.
One conception of Saurfang's honour is a form of militaristic just war theory. He operates with a code of conduct that allows for just aggression between himself and his enemies, not treating the initiation of conflict and reactive self-defence as morally different. Orcs will always be at war, and that is okay as long as it operates within honourable means. These means are maintaining a distinction between acts that seek to maximise military utility and minimise harm to noncombatants, and acts that simply create any form of military utility. This is the point of disagreement between Saurfang and Syvanas, that there are legitimate and illegitimate acts of aggression and violence. Sylvanas has adopted a "war is hell" doctrine where the ends completely justify the means, while Saurfang accepts both limits and the possibility that those limits may endanger the survival of himself and horde.
You would be right except Saurfang is a damn senile fool,cause apparently doing things that would end in Horde people getting killed just because "is not honorable" or "lets own Sylvanas" is the contrary of what you said,besides the imbecile was obssesed with dying.
Shes uses Blitskrieg tactics, not based on power but speed. Then used scorched Earth, detroys everything in her retreat
*Tauren would never have tolerated burning a World Tree.* A World Tree is a blessing of the Earthmother, their divine being, their All That Is, and it's practically confirmed that Elune is the Earthmother. She is the only 'true' deity in that lore that exists. Their entire culture, their entire society is not just based around respecting her, but also around respecting nature as a whole. The fact they tolerated Sylvanas' attack ruins the game's lore by spitting in the Tauren's faces. Saurfang was an ally to the Tauren people. Burning a World Tree means Tauren go neutral or join the Alliance. This game is dildos now. Forget about it.
The "world tree" Teldrassil was an overgrown stump in the middle of the ocean planted by fandral who was an old god puppet, until not so long ago it was corrupted by those same old gods. People act like teldrassil is a big deal but it didn't even exist back in wc3, which means the tree is 10 to 15 years old I'm sure the taurens have things more sacred to care about. Lastly, no elune isn't the earth mother, if anything elune COULD be mu'sha, the deity of the moon for taurens. It's pretty clear the " earth mother " is azeroth herself
Elune is not the Earthmother, Azeroth is, watch the new ingame cinematic... Baine says "We wage war, while the Earthmother dies"
Sylvanas sent the druids and most of the tauren to Silithus, to check the sword wound, while she and Saurfang executed the attack on teldrassil, that's why Baine is on Saurfangs side, he spoke against the burning
check your facts dude
The most honorable orc is Sourfang brother, and is because Broxigar doesnt have much lore to explore.
Everything Amongold says about Thrall is nonsense. There are differences between cultural concepts of honor, of course. But that merely means that at least one of the differing cultures must be mistaken about right and wrong. When we condemn the actions of others (or ourselves) on moral grounds we are not expressing an opinion or a personal preference, we are appealing to a universal objective standard. You can brazen it out, and say, with INTERNAL logical consistency, that all systems of morality are arbitrary (and thus none have the qualifying universality and are perfectly meaningless). But you can't stop making moral judgements. No matter how you try to guard against it, you will find yourself condemning an outrage. And we needn't take seriously a world view that cannot be lived.
In real life the moral codes of most successful societies in history are remarkably similar.
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I forgot where I heard the story of a fashionable woman who was holding forth to a priest on how all morality was relative and there was no universal right and wrong. The priest took the woman's purse and hung it over his shoulder. The woman said "You can't do that!"
"Why not?" the priest replied.
Not necessarily. Also moral absolutism is not the same as moral universalism, I think people also misunderstand moral relativism by assuming it means all morals are relative when it's only one variation of it. One only has to look as far back as the 20th century and compare society's treatment of certain groups which weren't seen as immoral.
@@manavein8870 The notion of moral progress/regress is meaningless without the concept of a moral ideal which can be approached more or less closely.
@@digitalnomad9985 And that ideal can be newly discovered, redefined, reevaluated and constantly compared with the past and present.
Saurfang s a thinker that understands that to be a successful and honourable leader, you need the same in an opponent. Tribe interpretations are irrelevant when your personal ideology is to earn respect because you've seen death, experienced loss and respect that some, even one, of your opposition leaders have the same moralistic stance. Screaming 'respect me because I will not let you dominate me' seem like a valid reason to wage war, to me. Equally, respecting that your opposition feels the same way, by and large, is reason enough to save an enemy life (Malufurion). It is honourable in Saurfang's eyes to spare a leader angered by his own losses.
youre just a horde nipple
Sweet and Sour Chicken-Fang
I prefer Sweet and Sour Pork-Fang.
Forging an alliance with the King of your eternal enemy. Yeah, he's chock full of honor
For a game Asmon has spent so much of his life on its funny how out of touch he is with the story.
did he even watch the video?^^
Wow player - Arthas revived her because she was good commander
Warcraft player - You know she was kinda shitty commander and was revived just to open the gate....
So yep on this line....
Imagine a plot revolving around the idea of the night elves being completely stumped by a basic bitch Horde stealth opp. They have only been fighting the Sayters for 10,000 years.
Baldy does not understand one thing: Alliance never viewed Horde as their ally nor their friend, yeah Anduin may be all about friendship and rainbow, but what about Greymane, Jaina and other who share their ideas? I can't imagine Greymane just sitting idle and not plotting anything behind Anduin's back, he would use Azerite to build powerful weaponry and pull a sneaky on the Horde and on Sylvanas and she knows it. Taking strategic advantage over new resource is important, break ranks of your enemies is even more important. However Sourfang is so filled with soy, that he can't make a right move when it's necessary, so Sylvanas have to do it her way. Narrow-mindness of alliance-only player here is just insulting.
And Horde assuming shit out of their asses is even more insulting. Genn was more then fine with just sitting back for a moment, he even said that he only hates SYlvanas personally, not all the Forsaken.
Can we take a moment to talk about how useless Malfurion has been in the last 2 expansions... He is the most OP Druid to ever walk Azeroth , but he does nothing... Also the Alliance has 10k year old leaders like Malfurion and Tyrande, they have Velen, litteraly any Alliance leader has more experience leading than Anduin... Why Is the the leader of the Alliance?
The ironic part is Asmongold is more like Sylvanas and goes on about ”winning is more important” all the time when it comes to his loot and guild.
No,because Sylvanas wanted the Horde as a sacrificial lamb
genn started the war attacking the undead fleet in stormhiem during legion peace times
Yes correct!
2 things here. The Horde attacked Alliance in times of peace during Ashran. The alliance wasn't there picking flowers, nor was Sylvanas in stormheim picking flowers either. Secondly there has not been a time of peace between the undead and worgen. Genn took mercs into stormheim. The alliance general was sent as good faith. The admiral had her mission and it ended when her ship crashed.
Skyfire : Survived having a literal raid boss fight, one is a tauren that spam Shockwave by stomping the ground, and a god damn dragon landing on it, constantly being on fire while the fight is on.
Anduin : "Hey uhh, don't attack unless you have to"
Genn : *Bombard Forsaken fleet out of nowhere*
Skyfire several seconds later : *Crashed and broken to pieces*
Genn is a shit character.
@@LordFakeGodz yes bombing boats with plague is a good idea. Gilneas was plagued bombed. In fact
Sylvanas cant seem to win unless she bombs something. If it wasnt for genn there wouldnt be bfa. Sylvanas would have won already. He's a character bent on vengence after what happened to varian and the broken shore. It was also old wounds which again sylvanas started.
@@LordFakeGodz Genn is the best character left in the story, bitch boy.
Somebody in the comments at 21:43 "fourkittens11" typed "If saurfang was so honorable he would makgora sylvanas"
LMAO THAT AGED WELL LOLOLOLOL
People fail to realize that Orcs Honor is based on the mythological Viking Honor.
Go read about Viking Gods, and how they think about Honor, and you will understand where blizzard is coming from. (Not that they always make it work correctly, many writers, some suck, but the idea is there.)
Victory is important to viking honor. But Death in battle and courage is also honorable.
Honor is not betraying your brothers in arms. But also culling a leader that is using his army only to his gains.
Lying, using underhanded tatics is acceptable. Even Odin did this many times.
But butting in on a one on one fair fight is not honorable. Your worhty is based on your skills, and if you are losing on a one on one, you deserve the death.
Now on a war, using underhanded tatics to win against enemy army is smart and advised by their honor code. They are only weapons on your arsenal.
They are not "knights" with chivalry, and that will never backstab anyone. But they have a different and more pratical code.
It is based on trusting your brothers in arms, doing what is necessary to win, being smart, and being strong, and proving said strenght against your opponents.
I am far from an specalist on this, so i cannot exactly explain all details about mythological viking honor, but its something around that.
Oh, btw, Saurfang did not kill Malfurion because he saw that his leader was WEAKER then enemy leader, and his interference to SAVE HER was an dishonorable blow.
Remember, strenght proves worth. If Malfurion was stronger, he deserved to win over Sylvannas. It was her weakness that caused this.
It is obvious that the most honorable Horde is Gamon. RIP GamDog
No, NO please tell me they did not kill him.
Alliance started the war by attacking Goblin's in Silithus that was before Darkshore.
People dont appreciate Sylvanas, everyone continually attributes the logic of the living to her "flawed actions". Sylvanas is the strongest force for the greater good on Azeroth.
Sylvanas is shit and fears death. She's a pussy.
The statements about sylvanas in this vid really aged like milk.
yyyyup.. she would DEFINITELY have burned the tree anyway!
"Yeah, wonder what those countries are" 😂😂😂❤❤❤
No, his idea of honor is pretty straightforward and has quite a few common beliefs. He views people differently.
A few nameless Night Elf Soldiers are just enemies, pawns on a battlefield for him to wage war against. He doesn't care how they die, just that they die through superior skill. An assassin literally, you know, assassinating them, is an attack of skill.
However with Malfurion, he isn't a nameless soldier. He is a leader, and a well known, powerful enemy. If Saurfang is going to kill him, he wants to prove that he can do it himself, one on one, face to face.
As for him just 'adding things to what he sees as honorable', no, just because he says something for the first time, does not mean it was 'added'. It just means he hasn't brought it up before. His sense of honor is simple.
Face your enemy as they would face you (Night Elves actually prefer stealthy tactics so his plan of using rogues was like beating them at their own game), fight them fairly, and beat them fairly. Do not run or flee from battle, because if you die, you must have died facing your opponent, die fighting.
He doesn't add things to this. It's a solid stance of honor.
Yeah the guy making the video is a known Sylvanas shill, also it may be a parody video as it was posted on March 31, so that most people would likely see it on April 1.
why does Alleria Windunner dwindle in the background of the scene, completely forgetting she's standing opposite to her undead sister
She blew up the top part of Lordaeron which was already a fucking destroyed and decrepit wreck. And she blew it up with blight, which Undead are unaffected by so really it would have went back to how it was in a few days once the plague cleared.
Garrosh is and will always be the only true Warchief of the Horde
You beat me to it
@@theshiftybloke4672 FOR THE TRUE HORDE!
@@scuffedspartan5144 THE TRUE HORDE!
I have never read anything more wrong in my life.
@@rdsasuke1 back off! Zugzug
Didn't know this was possible, but Asmon is 100% wrong on this video. This bid actually had me change my opinion on Sylvanas
It’s like how in game of thrones they say your a mad tyrant if you burn down a city with a dragon but it’s fine if use an army of men to burn AND rape
Oh my god people are so dumb about this really obvious story. The world trees have been infected by the old gods. Sylvannas is near the presence of yogg saron because her valkyr are on a mission from yogg to keep her alive long enough to start the beginning of the end of the world. Sylvannas is aware that the valkyr don't have her best intentions in mind and only serve much greater masters in the shadowlands. The reason why the shadowlands haven't been explained by chronicle yet is because blizzard isn't ready to explain what's there, and what it wants from sylvannas. She's starting a proxy war with the old gods who have infected Azeroth. She wants to burn open the path to the old gods and give the heroes of Azeroth a chance to fight the old gods for real. She will die at the end of BFA by burning the last world tree. Most of Azeroth who just see her as garrosh 2.0 still won't understand why she did it until blizzard literally just explains why.
Razenoid Arcanoth 👌🏻yes
As alliance from sylv pov tried to murder her without anyreason in stormheim and alliance was prepared save traitors in arathi which makes alliance instiagted the war.
Trying to enslave the QUEEN VAK'KYR is a pretty good reason for someone to want to attack you.
Actually it’s not. Genn even says it in the cutscene. It was about a personal vengeance not about enslaving anything. She took from him so he took from her. He could care less about the queen valk.
@@UthertheNIGHTbringer What Sgt said and was the Val'kyr alliance? No, I have never seen alliance trying to save other races and they don't since humans are pretty racist in this game. So it was only about vengeance he broke the peace. Then got marshal for it.
@@UthertheNIGHTbringer How was they part of the alliance or affliated with the alliance? They didn't even originally know syl was after val'kyr they were originally after her life which makes it war crime or declaration of war.
@@sgtc9635 look at dialoge at the start of stormheim and that they didn't know sylv was after val'kyrs. Dialogue at the start said they were hunting her an operation to take out warchief of the horde is as much a bad actions from horde pov as twilight hsmmer trying assasinate anduin amd varian at the same time.
I'm with Asmon. The horde's actions against the alliance are almost never justified, Sylvanas's least of all.
As if honor is a tangible quality irl
She won that battle, blowing the city up with the plague so your enemy cannot have it is a win.
By giving up a major stronghold and major production site for the plague that you so heavily depend on is a win?
If you say so....
yikes....
morally gay
that fucking reasoning "Yeah but nobody liked him so it's okay" WTF? that's like old school alliance hypocrisy
"b-but Genn started it! For the Banshee Queen!"
Genn went full retard in Stormheim but it ends up being the right choice because Sylvanas was trying to enslave a race of angelic beings to her will after she made a deal with the god of death. Despite that, what happens in Stormheim still doesn't justify instigating a full on faction war over a natural resource while the planet is quite literally bleeding out and dying.
The problem is the writing itself is just plain bad. Its Star Wars prequels level writing, where characters act stupid and naive for no reason other than it pushes the plot forward. You would think after the whole Garrosh debacle, there would be more delegation and committee decisions among-st the Horde leaders but nope. Sylvanas says we should slaughter the Night Elves and we do it because SHE DA WARCHIEF SHE DA BOSS. Only Saurfang seems to show any actual push back and it takes Baine 300 years to pull his big boy pants up.
Also if you think Sylvanas doesn't have her own motivation for doing any of this then you're either brain dead or a waifufag. The game itself mocks Sylvanas fans yet we still have unironic Sylvanas supporters
22:19 True as fuck , and 24:28
We just saved the world and the first thing to do she did was to fuck with the people that she saved the world with. It's insane!
So the Orcish sense of honor is their "Ninja Way". Got it.
Sorry for my english but here is what i think, The guy on the video is not completly wrong, the horde has been for very very long time the horde of garrosh's ideology and there is two charactere who has a huge percentage of both aliance and horde ideologies Thrall and Saurfrang, what blizzard is trying to do here is to assimilated Anduin's ideolgy into the horde, a world with peace and shits. But the fact is thats not how the horde is supposed to be, for me Saurfrang and Thrall are way more humans than orcs, ok sylvanas doesn't give a shits about anything but like every single warchief of the horde that has been there before... There are mistakes made from blizzard between a horde who live for the peace and a horde who live to conquer. In this case Horde and Alliance shared the ennemies for quite some times now and what blizzard had to do here is to make decision about what kind of alliance the horde and the alliance are supposed to have.
Blizzard don't want to insert Anduin's ideals into the horde they want Anduin to gain the trust of the horde so that a truce or temporary peace can be made, problem is Genn greymane constantly goes against what he wants, Sylvanas also wants the horde and alliance to burn to the ground so that the forsaken are the only ones left she also constantly provokes or otherwise does shit she knows the alliance won't sit and watch her do
@@floppymcdankus2905 Iam nearly agree with what you say, what i meant by anduin's ideals is "peace & love" things.. I did not say thats bad that anduin have to gain the trust of the horde but i don't like the way it goes, and to me thrall and saufrang are too much humans.. I don't say that the way sylavanas lead the hord is good it just keeps tensions between horde and alliance reasons doesn't matter, the world of warcraft needs it, and if thrall and saufrang become warchief so horde would not existe anymore because they are like the alliance.. Ajnd that suck ! ^^
@@floppymcdankus2905 xD
It pisses me off how everyone is pronouncing "sour fang" for a long time it was "sore fang" and hearing it change in bfa is really annoying.
a lot of warcraft names are just spelled and pronounced in a weird name...I was never sure how to say saurfang...I personally never pronounced "fang" like English, but like "fah-ng"
People act like Darnassus is a big deal. Elwynn is more populated by night elves than darnassus
Sounds like the all knowing asmongold never touched WC3 if he did he would know of why the blood elves went to the horde
Now I think about, being ok with killing multiple soldiers, by back stabbing them before war is even declared. But not being ok with killing a leader who at this point has killed hundreds of horde, after the war has been declared, because he didn't see the blow coming is fking stupid.
The atack to lordaeron was more because silvanas killed kalia menethil not only cause she burned teldrasyl
Hmmm... I wonder if this dudes opinions about sylvanas is any different now
The mental gymnastics that the guy who made the video goes through to justify basically nothing it pretty fucking amazing. Also when he said that Sylbananas would not have burned the tree if Malfurion died is factual inaccurate. Blizzard literally twitted out that the ONLY reason she burned down the tree was because that dying elf triggered her so she sperged out. You can clearly see that in the cinematic how it was a reactionary action and not a planed one, even soyboythanos and soyfang looked at her like "biiiitch you cray cray?"
So alot of this stems from the fact alot of background lore is in books not everyone reads. Apparently Sylvanas almost killed herself after Arthas died and instead made a pact with the valkyries and showed her the future where the forsaken were doomed to die under garrosh's plan to assault gilneas unless she led them. So she does care about the forsaken as a whole, atleast before BFA.
"Stand amongst the ashes of a trillion dead souls, and ask the ghosts if honor matters. The silence is your answer." This fits pretty well with this.
man its hilarious how out of touch and little asmongold knows about the current expansion and what is truly going on. It's like watching a confused child. Sylvanas is a hero, purposefully making herself a villain so both the horde and alliance will team up against her. Only with the horde and alliance teamed up together will they have a shot at surviving what is to come after 8.2 when azshara releases nzoth from his prison. Sylvanas knows this and everything she is doing is part of the plan to save the world and the horde, even if it means sacrificing herself. There is a reason voljin made her warchief. Not surprising how short sighted most WoW players are and how few people can see the big picture of this expansion.
so what he's saying is honor is just the WoW version of a naruto ninja way
This video is basically I don't understand what honor is and Blizzard has super inconsistent writing and shity lore for the last 8 years
if Arthas Revived Sylvanas as a Banshee, is the Body she is occupying her real Body or just some random Ranger she found? her Elven Model only appeared in TFT and in Reign of Chaos she was a Heroless Banshee.
She eventually reclaimed her body sealed inside a chest somewhere, during the "dreadlord rebellion" against king arthas.
The first undead episode/mission in TFT is somewhat wrong, since she reclaimed the body before she gained free will. An error the game developers haven't bothered to fix.
I stopped playing retail wow around the release of Mists and I'm so lost on the lore now lol
The Blood Elves in Dalaran were DALARAN citizens, not Horde meaning they were neutral and were subject to genocide just because of their race, a straight up pogrom.
if asmongold sees this comment, it was originally the humans(particularly garithos and his men) who began treating the blood elves like shit in the second campaign in warcraft 3: the frozen throne. at first he was just treating them like they were inferior to them in every way and being very rude, but when Kael'thas had to accept the aid of Lady Vashj and her naga or face total annihilation he didn't listen to them and instead imprisoned them to be executed for "treason" which lead to Kael and his people to say fuck them and follow a different path. when TBC came around and Quel'Thalas was coming back in to the world... Sylvanas, still feeling ties to her home and people, fought endlessly to have the blood elves inducted in to the Horde... so here we are now.
the fact of the matter is that the alliance as a whole, as well as the individual races among them, are extremely xenophobic and self righteous, thinking themselves the epitome of morality, righteousness, valor and all else that is good. They totally ignored the fact that the orcs were under demonic control and never once tried to help them and their xenophobia can be ultimately exemplified by the Nightborne questline to recruit them in to the horde. TL:DR they approached the Night Elves first due to their original ties to them but were met like "lol another Elisande could rise up for all we know so gtfo" so they sought out the horde instead, where the blood elves were FAR more welcoming
Saurfang, and Sylvan (plus, Wakanda forever!) are the reason I started playing Alliance again. The writers at Blizz are bipolar as fuck. So, I'd rather be the good guys, because the heroes are easier to ignore.
Sylvanas didn't kill Malfurion herself because orcish "honor" dictates that he would be saurfang's kill, and to take that away would shame him.
It's almost as if dying in battle is all he wants, that if he beat his opponent it means his foe cant kill him and that's all he wants. So he feels letting them live is honorable because it's something that cant defend against him and all he seeks is the one that can kill him.
saurfang is like the viking
Somebody is a Saurfangboi
I probably have no place in this discussion as I am not well versed in wow lore and wow politics/culture, but it sounds like orcish honor and pride comes from a root belief of a good battle and a good death. As such all actions that will lead to either of these actions feels like an honorable action, even if it is contradictory to group goals and ideals. As such it can be argued that a universal truth on orcish honor is death on a battle field worthy of them. The means of reaching this death is personal though.
Sylvanas probably smells like fish.
"Sylvanis is morally grey, Anduin is morally gay"
Ahhh I know it is 2 years but how didn't they catch this video being an April fool joke?
spit out my food on accident. "not morally gray, hes morally gay" lmfao
Run from the truth Asmond. Run.
Wrong opinion.
I really hope Sylvanas lives on and keeps leading the Horde, the Horde deserves a no-nonsense leader who stops at nothing to achieve victory.
I want Lor'thremar.
@@albens5852 if Sylvanas is replaced , Lorthemar is my favorite choice.