Roger's Rant - Building Control out of Control
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- čas přidán 21. 12. 2019
- Roger looks at some of the problems with building inspection in the UK where private building inspectors are now the preferred option for big house builders. The recent issues with lack of fire protection in timber frame houses suggests it is not working and trust has broken down. Is it time to take a different approach and record every stage of the build with photographs that can be stored on a database for prospective purchasers to access. Roger thinks it makes sense but what do you think?
#BuildingControl #RogersRant
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Most house buyers aren't builders. They don't understand building terminology even if you spent time explaining it to them. They get a mortgage buy the house and want to furnish it.. The answer would be custodial sentences for building inspectors, site managers and anybody else who puts a hand over signature on the building. If somethings not right and it goes horribly wrong then it's professional negligence surely.
We don't need more people in our prisons. There has to be a better way.
Fair enough Rodger. If a slinger doesn't secure a load on a crane properly and it slips and kills them that's man slaughter. If a hand over sheet is botched and a wall isn't tied in and falls down and causes damage then that's criminal negligence. If a doctor puts in dangerous silicon fake boobs they go to jail. Yes it's scale and circumstance but what is the deterrent to dodgy building inspectors? A house is most peoples biggest ever purchase and they put a lot of faith in the builders. Do they still have clarks of works? Foremen used to be ex joiners who had very strict eyes for detail.
@@stevenmurray6359 You say "what is the deterrent" but in non of the examples you gave is prison a deterrent. The guy securing a load, might have done a sloppy job or it might have just been an accident but either way, the thought of going to jail has as much effect on him as the guy who robs a bank. Our prisons are filled with people who thought they could get away with it, which is a shining example that jail isn't a deterrent, other wise they would be empty.
There would need to be a system that rewarded work well done, rather than punished work done badly. To start, the system of private inspections should be stopped. It rewards companies that perform inspections badly. I don't think Roger explained it too well or maybe he was trying to be kind. But the main reason private companies fail on holding up standards is because if a company has high standards of inspection, then builders will seek out the inspection companies that have low standards. And those companies will profit from giving low standards. So you have to remove the profit by removing it from private enterprise.
@@worldadventureman hi world adventure man. I understand the point perfectly. Pay a low standard agency and get away with substandard workmanship and materials. Maybe jail isn't the answer. Maybe there is no answer. If the fire proofing isn't good enough and fire spreads through to next door and the house has been signed off they probably have some kind of small print get out clause anyway. I live in a brand new house. It's a worry that it might not be properly built and nobody is criminally responsible.
@franko Whats most scary is the privatisation of prisons. Having lived in the US I saw how prisons and inmates were turned into cash cows and lobbyists on the payroll of private prison companies pushed for longer prison terms just so they could maximise their profits. They have now turned to privatising the parole services. So they constantly hound ex cons till they force them into situations where they re offend and then its straight back to prison to make them more money. They have no interest in rehabilitation or crime prevention, which is why US crime is rampant. Here in Australia they are moving towards the same model as all the politicians are corrupt here and ready to take whatever cash is offered. I think some of the biggest prison companies operating here are British!
Hi Roger I am a local authority building inspector and totally agree. Great idea Roger. Keep up the you tube clips very interesting, all the best Andrew
Have you viewed videos on CZcams by "New Home Quality Control" - staggering incompetence!! - each one must surely be a Court case!! As an ex Builder of high quality Timber Frame Homes. Just can not get my head around inspections by the Builder, the Main tradesmen, NHBC, local Authority, Building Control, etc., but even worse, Surveyors from Mortgage Companies - how in God's name those poor purchasers ever decided to buy such properties beggars belief!!!
Im a site manager of a school. Had a new build done just before i took on the role.. it wasnt until i started that i found serious issues. That had life threatening potential. From heating to electrics. All were signed off. I called the building contractors out on the issues and they could say nothing. With the signatures in my hands. 4 years on from the build and they are now under investigation. When will these cowboys learn? Boils.my blood
I worked on, and subsequently walked off of a job ran by an architect that employed a private building control firm. For the month i was there first and second fixing I never saw one person from the company at the crucial stages for timber frame. The architect introduced himself as a"self build guru", I prefer the term "knobhead." The short cuts he took was shocking, structural wall not ply lined, timbers not running floor to ceiling with joints consisting of overlapping the timber by 6" and a couple of paslode nails to carry the weight on the so called structural wall, double roof joists spanning 4.8 meters on one single hanger with the secondary joist nailed a few times unsupported, no trimmers around 1400mm square velux windows, 10mm overlap on roofing felt with a "silicone joint" (as he put it) as he didn't want to buy another roll of roofing felt, gable end timber frame wall over 6 meters high with not one single nogging throughout the entire building. I refused to plasterboard the ceiling sighting the structural problems so he employed a labourer to board the ceiling, same with the structural wall. Had a plumber install a hot water cylinder and signed off then started to dismantle it and move it himself, absolutely crazy.
Couldn't believe the mess the building was in and how structurally unsound it was but not a single person at local council building control wanted to know as it was already under contract by a private firm, pretty much said it was their problem not ours.
I hope he was not an Architect. By law he has to be an associate member of the RIBA, and I like to think they try harder.
Not registered on any search with RIBA, I had my doubts as to whether he was an actual architect or just worked for an architectural company in the past and passes himself off as an architect offering the full service, given the absolute disregard to specifications and building code.
That’s the type of person I’d bury in the foundation. He’d be gone on week one. No time for imbeciles around me.
Unfortunately the local council building control cannot take action unless the approved inspector reverts the contract back to the local council as the approved inspector does not have any enforcement powers. Any legal action will have to be taken by the householder against the builder or approved inspector. If the householder had come to their local council building control before works had started then action could have been taken under the building act.
Thought I’d add my penny worth......I’m a recently retired uni lecturer. I spent 12yrs lecturing having worked in the construction industry for 25yrs prior to that. Anyway, by retired I meant “paid off” and “pushed out” because I threatened to whistle blow the degree system that has an ever increasing reliance on management arm-twisting to ‘persuade’ us to pass a failing student in order to get them the degree that someone has paid £27k for. It’s now all about budgets and marketing to the next batch of students......Stress got me in the end and I accepted defeat. Anyway, Roger’s vid on building control officers brought it all back and reminded me of a 2nd yr degree student (described himself as a bco) who did not know what warm or cold roofing meant.....my somewhat bemused colleague enquired as to when, time-wise, would the student be thought of as knowledgeable enough to carry out inspections himself......the student quickly responded by stating quite forcibly that he WAS a fully qualified bco and undertook inspections daily. My point is that the education system, especially the degree system is not fit for purpose and has been corrupted and although the brighter student group, together with the less competent BUT hardworking students will do genuinely well, the lazy and (how do I say it) incompetent student CAN regularly get through because his results are routinely massaged. How does this help the industry or even the individual themselves? I can tell you that organisations like the RICS and CIOB are well aware of the issues but do nothing but give lip service.....I’ve seen it and argued it.....at the end of the day they also want paying Members (ie those who have passed).
The old clerk of works would turn in their graves......starting to sound like my old dad now so I’ll get off. Happy Xmas everyone!
Very good video, much the same has happened in Sydney recently. Builders appoint their own "inspector" who's obviously in their pocket and build shonky dwellings which people pay a fortune for. One multi storey apartment block had massive problems with cracking concrete and the owners were evacuated and are hundred of thousand out of pocket with little chance of getting their money or apartment back. Of course the NSW government has sat on their hands and not helped the owners whatsoever. Moral of the story, don't buy off the plans.
Perhaps they should do what they do with security staff, I've even seen it used for staff in railway stations. Have clock in or check in tabs scattered around the site, where they must be logged or activated at least once or twice a day, that should get them out of their comfy cabins.
I certainly like the idea of photographing each significant stage of the build and logging it in a file or folder.
I remember when building inspectors were employed by the local council and although they were strict they were fair and also buildings got built to a strict criteria (no corner cutting) and if it wasnt right it had to be re done. Its many yrs since I was in the building game but sadly a lot of it seems to have gone to the dogs with especially large companies. I totally agree with you Roger that things have to change and not for profit but for quality.
I’m in Jersey Channel Islands and our Building Inspectors are States employees, but I as a Carpenter and a Thermal surveyor I don’t know how some shit work doesn’t get pulled up. And it’s always the big firms! That seam to get away with it. Funny That!
I’m old school and you are bob on I like watching your videos because you give very good advice and any young lad learning there trade should be made to watch your videos.
Keep up the good work.
Happy New Year.
Please keep doing what you do. Someone has to step forward and it takes bravery nowadays. I can only hope you continue. Top man!
Sounds like a very easily corrupted system... I bet lots of people saw this coming. In fact, it’s pretty much a textbook case of conflict of interest.
Conflict of interests was Margaret Thatcher's stock in trade. All those ministers who presided over the privatisation of the public utilities and then ended up with seats on the board.
On the other hand, anyone that has to deal with government agencies know how slow, cumbersome, expensive and frustrating it can be. Also corruption is a problem as well, especially since they have no competition.
It's how the 2008 financial crisis happened - the credit rating agencies (S&P, Fitch etc) were paid by the companies flogging all the subprime mortgages and absolute garbage was magically rated AAA. Some subprime mortgage portfolios with AAA ratings were so bad that 17% of all mortgages never saw a single repayment - totally fraudulent! That's how the few who were wise to the scam made huge fortunes shorting the subprime garbage - because the AAA portfolios assumed no more than 5% defaults before they failed.
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb k
@@ArthurDentZaphodBeeb that's not to mention the hyper inflation, that now means many can't afford to buy houses now.
Roger, you are not suggesting that the big builders are taking short cuts are you? As if the Persimmons or Barratts would ever do a thing like that. After all, these are the builders who subcontract in chippies who are so good they don’t need measures or squares, blind brickies who think the front garden is for piling in rubbish, landscapers who sell you back your own topsoil and plumbers who have brilliant knees that allow pipes to bent perfectly. As you say, a house is a huge outlay and the owners should have peace of mind that it has been properly built. The current “buy your own compliant inspector” system is type sort of thing you expect in the worst countries in the developing world. If ever there was a case for pressing the undo button, this is it.
Trevor Austin buidling control of any kind wont stop any of the things you mention
Councils and governments take short cuts as well.
I was speaking to a gentleman the other day about his new house c£400K . We discussed quality , comfort , design etc . One of the questions I asked was about the heating and he remarked that he was unable to test its capability because the front door was always because of all the ‘tradesmen’ returning to repair all the faults ! These included a serious water leak and complete removal/refit of the dry ridge . Go into any new build and it soon becomes apparent that the standards are appalling .
The CEO of Persimmon paid himself £100 million in bonuses - of course, they have to build as cheap as possible - its all about the shareholders getting the best value for their money - what do you expect; this is capitalism !
Totally agree, we’ve been working on a new build commercial building that has been signed off by a private inspector, so far we’ve condemned the fire alarm and drains, now in question is the foundations, structure, fire proofing and the m&e systems, truly shocking build
One of your best videos.
Clerc of the works are a thing of the past. Haven't seen one in over 25 years.
As a bricklayer who's job it is to fit fire socks, the problem is with the bricklaying sub contractors.
If you are a conscientious bricklayer still trying to do your trade properly you will be sacked within two days of starting on a site. All they care about is how many bricks/blocks you can crash down in a day.
They are now importing gangs of bricklayers from Romania. They aren't proper bricklayers. The standard is the worst I have ever seen and no one is doing anything about it. It's all about the bonus culture.
Bricklayers have always worked to monetary targets since the 70's at least, in other words, cash per brick. I think the deskilling of the trade and lack of independent bricky foreman and clerk of works does not help that is a result of passing the buck to subcontractors like you say. Remember the brits went to Germany when the work dried out here in the 80's, so those brickies move around from all parts of the world.
Harvey see my comment above, I'm living in a new build the brick work is absolutely shocking. Snot all over the walls and in the cavity and inside too. Perps are random all throughout, they don't use plumb line. I had them.out to mine and they couldn't have cared less. Reason for the brickwork all over - bricks are different sizes, so it's all in tolerance. I laughed then remembered what I'd paid for the rubbish
@@itscoconutsaregood British Bricklayers went to Germany for two reasons.
1. Without sounding arrogant, we are some of the best in the world and the Germans wanted the best.
2. In Germany no one went into the trade because conditions were so tough.
The German government realised the problem and addressed it. German bricklayers now earn good money and are respected for their skill,
In 1982 the British government cancelled the long standing apprenticeships and replaced them with a 6 months YTS course. ( I have never met anyone who became a bricklayer after doing a 6 months YTS course.)
In regards to your commend about being paid per brick, (price work) yes some do but 90% work on day work for subbies.
You are pushed everyday to produce.
If you don't perform, you're sacked.
When you say bricklayers move around from all parts of the world. That isn't strictly true, true Face Bricklayers only come from a few North European countries and some of their ex colonies.
@@harveysmith100 Thanks for taking the trouble to reply. I have not been on a building site for over 15 years so forgive me if I am behind the times. You surprise me that subtractors pay their gangs on dayworks (I guess rate per day not hourly) that "stick" must be very effective. Wimpey Homes had teams of cost/bonus surveyors that took the trouble to estimate a target taking into account the nature of the work and feedback from the supervision and gangs. It seemed to work. I shall take it from your experience some if not all of the Romanians are poorly skilled. My point was can we just respect good tradesmen who ever they are or is it just stiff competition you are worried about which is a fair complaint. I was offered 2 apprenticeships as a bricky in '79 but took the joinery route (once the cream of the industry). But failed at that. So I can only dream of becoming a skilled tradesman now. No offense intended. Auf Wiedersehen, Pet.
You hit the nail on the head, Builders/Formen , Site Management etc are responsible for doing a good job and installing building materials/products correctly. Why do Builders rely on Building Control to pick up if they have done a bad job. Everyone should be accountable, not just Building Control. It's about time Builders took some responsibility.
I said it years ago. It's like a football team having its own referee.
Everything that was stated in this video about private building inspection also applies to local authorities and national government departments.
Roger - What you are highlighting is known in some places as Technical Assurance, which is making sure from the planning stage that the right things are done in the right way by the right (competent) people. If Assurance is done well, then Control (inspecting afterwards) should show no problems. Providing Assurance means planning the work correctly and demonstrating that it was undertaken in compliance with the plan - or to the required Standard. This normally means writing things down and keeping records - like the photos you suggest. Another important aspect is Trust. The more trust that the job will be done right (generally a track record), the less Assurance is required and vice versa. However, if the people receiving Assurance are not appropriately demanding enough, it is likely to fail. I've been undewhelmed by Council BC officers too.
I'm just beginning to work through Robin's and your videos and am incredibly impressed. Thank you.
Scottish carpenter here. I agree totally with the problems with the big companies effectively inspecting themselves, it really is open to all sorts of abuse, however the "approved inspector" scheme can be useful to us little guys. Using an independent company can speed things up a hell of a lot. I've been held up on so many occasions waiting for a building inspector to do a stage sign off that it pays just to price in an "approved inspector" to do the inspection when you need it done. Where I work there's such a backlog in the building control system that you can wait for weeks to get an inspector on site. On the photo's side of things, I take pics all the time of everything - it's my own arse I'm covering when I do that. No-one can come back and say it was my fault if I've got photo's to show that something was done right. Photo's these days have EXIF information attached which show day and date as well as location (if you've got your GPS on). That can prove where and when a pic was taken.
Excellent observations. Thanks for commenting. It seems that for people who are doing the job right there is nothing wrong with any inspection you choose but the problems start on the big contracts,
The second it went out to tender standards drop to be replaced with corruption.
Great video Roger. The self certification scheme is much the same. I bought a house with 25 year CIGA guarantee and found with invasive investigation that it was not only done appallingly bad but blocking off roof ventilation, drilled through asbestos, contaminated loft water tanks, 10s of brick faces shattered and lodged in the cavity. Installed insulation around electrics in the cavity, unsleved combustion vent......all confirmed by 2 RICS surveyors. CIGA's response - it's lack of maintenance on behalf of home owner. CIGA also lied about about their inspection findings. As there is no oversight of this self regulation -they just screw over home owners. I've documented everything with endoscope, photos, thermography, condensation analysis - none of it seems to count when delaying with bully boy companies.
franko it seems not. But can go out shooting
From bitter experience I have had arguments with my builder who promised the local authority building inspector insulation and sealing for a warm loft space had been done , and the necessary paperwork had been issued by trust .
We later found it wasn't sealed and insulated properly . After a battle with the builder and threats of certification being revoked by reports back to building control , we managed to get all the problems resolved .
Your suggestions for photo evidence would work to ensure no cheating to gain certification .
Really enjoy your videos . Good advice and help from well seasoned tradesman.
Thanks for your prompt reply , I've worked on many large housing developments, Fire barriers in cavity wall construction are rarely used. In the last 25 years plus I've not seen them...
I thought something similar when I was drilling a hole in a wall for shelves the other week. Whilst not related to building control, I did think it would have been nice if I had a drawing or 3D diagram of the house infrastructure (wiring, pipes, any other cables etc) so that I could be more confident about using a stud finder/live wire detector. Obviously that should be used and plans not just relied on but it has given me an idea to keep a plan whenever an amendment is made to the house whether its just photos or updating a drawing to look back on.
I can see why some people sort of look over new builds and prefer solid victorian or older houses, and I'm sure they have their own issues too, they seem to be made a bit better from what I've seen from comments on new builds. Then again it could just be that I'm seeing all the people complain about something and there's way more who are happy about their purchase.
I dunno it just seems the big building companies wanted to build the houses quickly to make the most profits without keeping a quality balance. Just my 2p but it does seem a conflict of interest as you've mentioned Roger. Sadly things don't change too quickly unless there's a big accident, so we are always reactive rather than proactive on these issues.
I used to work on timber framed houses in the 90's the fire break was installed by the carpenters who erected the timber frames, the fire break was either red or green so it stood out like a sore thumb. I find it shocking that the site agent hasn't noticed that it was missing, it takes a few weeks for the brickies to finish their work so the timber frame is left exposed for a long time. Also the brickies could see that it was missing so why didn't they say something, everyone of us tradesmen have a duty to make sure our work is completed to a high standard and if we see something that is totally unacceptable it is also our duty to say something
At the end of the day somebody is spending a lot of money purchasing a house and they shouldn't be having problems that are as bad as this
I wouldn't be surprised if many labourers on site brought it up. I wouldn't be surprised if they were told "We'll sort it". I wouldn't be surprised if the higher ups made an actual decision to not correct the problem, and made it clear that further comments were not welcome.
Finally, I would not be surprised if the vast majority then kept their heads down, because they could not risk pushing the matter and being left out of work.
Great points mate. Also the integrity of tradesmen is something that a lot of us out there need to have a good think about.
Great video! Building control, is out of control. Photos are a good idea, but I can see a generic, if slightly individualized, set of photos being produced for each construction element. I bought a new house 4 years ago and was worried about the level of insulation in a room above a garage. I couldn't verify what insulation had been built into my property, but I photographed the progressive construction of the same house-type, as its construction progressed. I found what I believed to be an issue and contacted the private inspection company and suggested they made an urgent inspection to verify my thoughts before the building works progressed and covered the evidence. To my amazement the Inspection company's field agent initially refused to make an 'unscheduled inspection' as the builder would consider this to be HARASSMENT!! My persistence with this, eventually resulted in remedial insulation being added to all houses of a similar design to mine on the development. Inspections must be independent of builders/ developers. Fees are charged and ultimately paid for by house purchasers. Making a charge for a service, knowingly not undertaken, is fraud!
I purchased a 10 year "new" house and hve found loads of problems....that are not within the limits of the regulations....inverted drains, open pipes in the loft...insulation not in place....Surpised a more rigours system hasn't been employed where the skilled men should be signing off there work and then counter checked "independently"....this is what happens in the engineering world!
Ye, you will do their not Builder to day, they just play with their phones and sit in McDonald's all day
UK houses are dreadful because of the lack of free market. Regulated market place just ends with cartels.
Your 100% correct
Since the demise of the clerk of works role in construction there has been a loss of a basic quality control, especially as various trades are engaged at various stages of construction. Sadly this position, and the role of buildings inspectors have been lost as major projects move to design & build projects who "self certify"
Great idea Rodger it’s similar to when I had my gas main updated at my old house the sub-contractor that re connected my gas meter had to take a picture of the new connection and the pipe that he had used (due to money reasons I may add), I know it’s a different job entirely but it’s the same principle, there does need to be more done to maintain the safety and overall quality of new builds in these big contractors that take on these projects but unfortunately it’s all about profits and not perfection. 👍🏻
I work in installing fire stop products in Ireland and we use a system very similar to what you suggested to use. We are issued with work phones and have stickers each with a unique number on them we then photograph each seal and Mark it on a drawing sent with details of the fire stop seal through an app on the phone which the company uses to issue a fire cert and garentee the work completed. This is done in residential and commercial buildings.
Spot on Roger. if anyone would like to buy a home with quality in mind, with peace of mind that every stage has been checked, buy from a smaller builder, as they are not going to have the NHBC etc in their back pocket. There has always been a saying, there is one rule for a volume builder and one rule for everyone else. I should know.
As someone who has recently spent a long time before finally deciding to buy a new Redrow house and I am personally very interested in ways of assessing ‘build quality’. So thanks Roger for raising this very important issue. The customer has to have confidence the Inspection process. This year I have been looking at properties built by different ‘national’ builders and particularly noted how the quality of each builder appears to vary from site to site. All the customer is allowed to see is the finished Show House, that is often well fenced off from the plot ‘on offer’. As a buyer I have found that access to ‘our potential plot’ was very limited and strictly ‘controlled’, allegedly in the interests of ‘Health and Safety’ and any awkward questions in respect to build quality deflected by trained sales staff who rigidly stick to ‘company guidelines’ in their responses. Hardly ever are you able to talk to the tradesmen contracted to build the property. Potential buyers are encouraged to ‘buy off plan’ and fancy models and videos are produced to indicate position and outlook. Rarely are you able to inspect the actual house ‘on offer’. The Sales process is deliberately designed to separate the buying process ‘after Reservation’ and moves on to Customer Care Dept (not on site) until the keys are released and final occupation. With all ‘the will in the world’ I have not found it an easy process. NHBC and similar ‘guarantees’ of build quality are cited to give customer assurance, but are only really tested after you have bought the property and then discovered a problem, by which time it is too late.
I suggest that Mortgage lenders should take a greater interest in ‘build quality’ as it is ultimately ‘their money’ that, in most cases, finances the ‘new build’ market. Cosy arrangements between Building Inspectors and Developers should be ‘outlawed’. I therefore would advise potential buyers to research their chosen builder ‘on-line’ to get some idea of current buyers’ experiences who have actually bought on the site in question, eg. via Community Forums on Facebook or on ‘Trust Pilot’, but bare in mind that not all reviews are fair and reasonable. Inexperienced customers do sometimes have high expectations and are easily disappointed when their expectations are dashed.
You put things in quotation marks too much
The CIOB have recently published a document on quality in construction, but it comes down to the willingness to pay for quality on site. designing it is just a paper exercise. Even reputable builders have to scrape the barrel as price is the only factor in subby selection, and skills are gone now
My home passed all building inspections, built exactly to code(USA) 21 years ago. Code is minimum acceptable work. Now years later tile is falling off the wall, so during repairs we got to find and repair all the poor plumbing and shower pans without proper water barriers, regular wall board used in showers, etc.
They seem to be more interested in collecting permit fees and allowing contractors to cut corners as needed. Whatever happens, happens.
Possibly the best piece I've ever seen on CZcams. Comments are brilliant as well as the video! Thanks. Restores some faith in human nature even though the diligent folk are fighting a losing battle at the moment.
Roger - Great Idea! - I work in Aerospace - we are tied down to the utmost detail as you would expect. - Across the road is a company that regularly loads and unloads HGV's with concrete blocks etc for the building industry - they take photos of all vehicles as they arrive and as they leave to ensure the load is safe. - Its easy and makes people safe, and the company's insurance must be lower. Such a simple thing to save lives...
You referenced Persimmon Homes - Quel Surprise!! If only buyers were aware of the rubbish they churn out.
I've been wondering for a while if there is a scandal looming in the future when the quality and safety issues come to light and the mortgage companies realise and there's mass devaluations.
Persimmon had an independent report produced recently and:
"* The problem Persimmon has encountered with missing/improperly fitted cavity barriers is a systemic nationwide problem, which is a manifestation of poor culture coupled with the lack of a Group build process (a rigorous regime of Group controlled build, based on clear drawings and specifications supported by an appropriate supervision and inspection regime).
* If the Board wishes Persimmon to be a builder of quality homes, meeting all relevant build and safety standards, then it should re-consider Persimmon’s purpose and ambition...."
I don't think anyone is government is paying attention to what is actually going on with house building.
some of them are paying attention; the money is being thrown at them for the electorates pleasure and the big cheeses bonuses but yes you are right, that is all they are doing because they believe in the market / capitalism is best. Caveat emptor still applies even though public money is being used to support it.
The Construction Industry is and always has been run using large amounts of graft - paying people using the black economy; dodging standards by only putting stuff in to standard where it is visible and the bits hidden use sub standard parts; hiring sub contractors who will turn a blind eye to obvious breaches and firing those who raise faults; producing fraudulent documentation and only hiring and paying for building control companies that will ignore key stages in a build process. And then after they have saved money by ripping off their customers, insurers, sub contractors and suppliers they buy silence by a handshake in the masonic lodge locally and a sizeable donation to the Tory party nationally.
How do you think Carillion (Tarmac) grew so fast and then did an Icarus?
I used to work for Wimpey Homes in the 80s. We would make sure the red 'Donkey's Dxxk' fire stop was always in place. It went on during the construction of the timber frame, along with the membrane bridging each timber panel. If it wasn't there, the brickies would let us know.
I wouldn't touch a new build if it were free. What with this, and the freehold blight/scandal, I pity anyone that 'invests' in a new home.
It’s greedy profit and ridiculous bonus culture at the heart of this problem. No pride in design or build.
@@martin2466
Capitalism brought you the computers, communications, vaccines, antibiotics and everything else you can think of. Socialism has only brought hundreds of millions dead.
Totally agree with you Roger the agents are more worried about whether you’re wearing a hardhat than not putting a fire barrier in 😮
Hi Roger, totally agree, in this day and age it should be easy to capture the evidence of compliance when the work is done, I am currently working on a very large civil engineering project and this is something we are developing for standards compliance, a mobile app that can capture the work being done right in the first place by pictures and date and location stamping. This could easily also be used for domestic projects, happy to give you more details if you get in touch!
Im a site agent for a developer who builds retirement apartments.
I use a snagging app to record all majoy fire proofing works at key stages. Then compile it into a document with descriptions and locations.
Obviously you can't cover every single part of the fire stopping works but if you can provide enough to show quality of work and products used which is a good starting point.
If you can make a building inspector have faith in you it makes the whole project easier and stops you having to open up areas to prove work has been done etc.
However I do think alot of training is needed in this area as the regulations are constantly changing and it's nearly Impossible to stay upto date. Even just regulations of the use and types of fire foam is very lengthy.
So many familiar stories in the video and the comments to what's happening in Australia. Inspections are privatised, standards are dropping. In some places, builders get qualified as inspectors and can certify their own work! Construction companies set up businesses to build buildings, then wind them up when they sell them, leaving no entity to pursue for any subsequent damages in law. This is especially true in apartment builds.
I had a valuer come through my 45 year old home recently. He told me it would outlast all the new homes he looks at every week.
100% agree. Fortunately in Scotland we don't have private BC companies its still done by the council. However many of the BC officers aren't clued up enough on all the regulations and furthermore site inspection work isn't nearly as rigorous as it should be. As built deviates so far from design - e.g. dubious or no air tightness testing, wrong material /product specification, missing insulation, I could go on. Ultimately if any part of the construction process isn't inspected or audited properly people will cut corners to save money or to keep their clients happy so as to get return work and to line their pockets more.
Good Vid. Roger. To take your idea of photographing things a little further: Short videos could be uploaded via a verified 3rd party (so times and location could not be fudged) at various stages of the build that become part of the electronic deeds of the house. Any infringement is therefore evidenced. The important factor is proper sized fines for these infringements with the builders AND the Inspecting firms being jointly fined. Its hard to justify the single largest purchase in most peoples lives is so laxly regulated - our cars are stringently tested, the materials used to build are tested and traceable but the construction process is largely not.
George Osborne's "help to buy" scheme should more accurately be described as "help to sell".
No wonder he has been inundated with sinecures since being thrown out of No.11.
Hi Roger, Good point re the photos as the property is being built, with all this modern technology these days no excuses for the builder. I have been round some new build sites and they do seem to "pack em in" and some of the workmanship !! scary stuff...….. PS Good to see you supporting BTFC (The Nailers) may see you at a home game...…
Just remember the Bernard cribins song (there I was digging this hole ) happy New year guys
I am a builder but just small scale not building big housing projects and over many years I have built a great working relationship and trust with my local private building control experts, in this time I have found them to be very particular keeping me on my toes at all times which of course is always a good thing, so my point being there are circumstances where private building control firms work very well but like all things the big firms will try to exploit any loopholes and why would they do that??? Makes no sense to me, if your end product is not as good as it should be and there is no reason for it to be that way, I am very confident and very proud of all of my projects and because I know that everything is carried to or even above building regs keeping in mind that building regs are a minimum standard to be achieved...
Hey Roger B- been a watcher of yours for years!!
Well done to date mate.
QQ: with building control and your ref to this when buying or selling is an important factor. However, how does an indemnity insurance work as fuel to keep the sale / purchase moving go? And what if the build was over 7 years ago - I was advised that providing nothing has happened and finance along with building insurance is and has been obtainable - this works too with our any council sign off pursae!
As a site manager you face far too many fronts now, in order to hand over a building/home that you would deem as acceptable, especially on the private housing side.
I have just handed over my last 30 new turn key houses, and have resigned from the career, for reasons such as:
The supply chain over the past 30 years has slide away form quality workmanship, quality materials, time to simply allow structures to dry out before and sensible handover can be reached.
I enjoy these tuition videos that Roger posts, but these can a far cry from site standards, witnessed daily.
Most trades on site would like to spend greater time but pushed programme to move on too, all jobs are priced to the most competitive quote leaving the whole system on a race to the bottom.
I personally I won't allow plumbers to leave final fix without witnessing pressure tests on pipe work, often leading to blazing rows with contractors and line principal contractors senior managers wanting vital services covered up to progress works without QC checks.
Electricians again the same with every item fixed and tests witnessed.
Materials : such as floor jousting that simply would have been graded too poor in past now a common site such as C16 saving a contractor a possible £1500 from engineered joists , 12 months later a complete mess for a new home owner shrinking back at least 20mm on floor level messing with shower trays and skirting rough first floors, to mention bridging shrink and causing nosey creeks.
Principal contractors too, dragging trades payments out to 30 -100 days, makes it very hard to motivate good workmanship before work even starts.
Housing warranty companies simply run to the final inspections, thankfully we still have state managed building control services, with helpful on -line booklets to assist managing these issues with the supply chain. At least In Northern Ireland.
I always kept a full set of BS8000 off workmanship standards in full display to show all trades of the standard expected.
The whole sector needs to go back to first principals, focus back on quality supply chains, and stop completely thinking about profit.
It is easy to see why so few school leavers wish pursue construction, site conditions have not really improved greatly outside.
Corner cutting must stop.
A really interesting video, thanks, as well as a very practical suggestion on how to improve matters.
I'm a small property developer and we're currently using LABC to provide cover and warranty against three new dwellings. I can easily see how the larger builders such as TW, Persimmon ect have considerable sway within this scenario. If your standards are being scrutinised by company A and the company they are inspecting accounts for a large proportion of it's revenue, there is always going to be a conflict of interest. As far as I am concerned the guarantee and inspection should be given and provided by a government body, this would hopefully avoid the conflict of interest. Would put more money directly back into the public sector and hopefully raise standards. Not saying there will ever be a perfect system but the current system is similar to the situation that caused the last financial crash, large banks essentially forced the ratings agencies to grade investment products to the highest grade possible irregardless of the quality of the product within. The ratings agencies complied because if they didn't it meant a bottom line hit on its revenue and loss of market share to the next competitor. Greed fueling greed unfortunately. Great video as always!
Spot on Roger, Thanks for raiseing the issue.
Good idea but, those photos could be of any house...not necessarily that specific house. These cowboys will always find a way to cheat
For cavity wall surveille ce scheme CASS. the BBA require photos with GPS location tagged. A very easy bit of metadata to spoof - but they do do 5% physical checks. I’m sure this helps a little with quality but the checks.
These organisations often deal in cash for certification and while there is no independent oversight will continue to do so, grenfel one would hope would lead to a big shake up.
This analysis of testing of CWI - this is in 6 million homes and never properly evaluated in older buildings.
nottomyhome.blogspot.com/2018/12/abject-failure-of-mineral-wool-and.html?m=1
I understand ya point about photographs but the problem I have is that the worker will not photograph from an angle showing bad work, they will use an angle showing the best of the work. Nothing beats a physical inspections and these people should be held accountable for any failures in building regs especially anything to do with fire.
We used a builder with a private inspector to build an extension. We ended up with a build that had to be torn back down as the faults where so extensive. Even down to the foundations. A very corrupt system that seems to be on the side of the builder.
Some great suggestions on how things can be improved.
Building control was part privatised by Margaret Thatcher in 1985 with the creation of the National House Building Council (NHBC) to compete with local authorities. In 1997, John Major expanded this programme by introducing the 'approved inspectors' regime, which allowed other companies to join the market.
Having bought a new build recently from Linden I completely agree with these comments and have had a battle to get things corrected after purchase. These properties were inspected by the NHBC, who are also providing the guarantee. So it’s a lot of money for the NHBC if they lose linden as a customer. I would also add that a big problem for buyers is that these companies also change the spec after you have given your deposit which means you are getting something different to what you were originally expecting. There does not seem to be any legislation to prevent this, I think there might be in Scotland though.
Brilliant little Video.... and idea to fix the problem. Once again the sage speaks. The Industry is a little cosy...but what a super idea , w.r.t time-stamped Geo cameras (Just take comfort in that the UK is far better than a lot of others )
Thanks very much or highlighting this problem. The self certification process is not being monitored by the building control departments. I have personal experience of how dangerous faults are being ignored by local building control departments.
No certification and no regulations.
Some of the larger contractors already use exactly this sort of system. They prepare digital 'QD' proformas where each location is completed, photographed, referenced and uploaded onto the document control system. If the work package is one that's been subcontracted, the main contractor can check once the subbie has advised them it's been completed (if for some reason it's not been physically inspected by the Build Manager) by them prior to sign off. The client/consultant can then check the QD sheets to see that everything has been installed correctly, inspected and completed.
Who watches, the watchers?
This is why such jobs, like building inspections, should be done by gov agencies.
I agree that people should have to make a record, of all work they do in building a house, so a new owner, knows what was done.
For me, a house, should have a service manual, like a car has too. Often the stuff done, is just as important. Like servicing a boiler, i know, people have to record what was done, and when.
So for me, i agree, if it was me in charge, i would make a house, or flat, have a service manual, like they have on cars. Where all the things done, have to be recorded. Just like cars, have a service manual, a house that was built, should have it recorded, what was done.
So i agree with you on photographs, on such important stages.
So many times people build houses, and then sell them, and the new owners, will have no idea how many things were done. If a house had to have like a record, of how it was built, and how anything unique, had to be recorded, so future owners, know exactly, how you did it, and why.
It shows you, that what your speaking about here, is important, and it should be something, that has to have a record, of what was done, and how.
This sort of thing, should be a gov agency regulation thing. But of course, like you said, it was privatised.
You would think the uk gov would of learned about how corrupt the usa building trade is, with mafia groups running many parts of it. The american building industry is very corrupt, and you would of thought that the uk gov, could of learnt a thing or two, from seeing how abused that system is.
A good point to raise Rodger. Although I’ve also seen this with council BC officers.
You’d be surprised how a bottle of whiskey can make scrutiny disappear. Concerning times...
The photography evidence is already here to meet the part L requirements for airtightness and insulation. Should absolutely be brought in for part B too. I've found issues myself with spandrel panels and other fire stops that have been passed by LABC and Warranty providers. Problem is the collection of evidence needs resourced correctly as does the inspection regime, which unfortunately it's not.
When the building control officer turns up on the job and tells me categorically that I have to put the clay master on the bottom of my footing as well as on the outside wall as my one did a month ago ... Then that's the point when I decided to retire .... After all 50 years in the building trade teaches you nothing ......
Well done Roger every thing is about speed.I am affraid to say factories are the only way forward brick laying drones are on their way as profits are what drives these big companies so all tradesmen should put quality first as the small builds on existing properties will still require their skills and care
Really interesting rant Roger.
I deal exclusively with Building Control primarily because it gives my customers INDEPENDENT reassurance of the works carried out. To my mind if you (as the bulider) engage a private inspector then they are working for you therefore how could this inspection be considered independent?
As for photographic evidence, I subbed on sites (many years ago) and would see 1 roll of Rockwood used around openings to "persuade" inspectors that the cavities were insulated !!!
I've seen whole houses plumbed out in copper, all clipped & all joints fluxed, then the plumbers have been moved to another plot with no solder being used. Seen eight houses on the same site finished like this and only had a problem months down the line, once pipework had moved.
So I cannot see that pictures would "prove" as any kind of evidence.
The state the industry is in now is because everyone is chasing the money & no one is prepared to make decisions & stand by them. It used to be that most people had pride in what they did - in any profession, now it seems everyone wants to be "liked" & spend their time taking pictures of their dinner !!!
My rant over 😂😂
Regards
Tim
In Sweden our Foreman comes out and takes pictures of where we fireproof. Atleast at my place of work.
As Long as they come out and take the picture it's fine. I'm not taking any pictures unless i'm getting paid for it.
Good point. I would pay the builder to take the pictures. No problem then
Hi roger we’ve got a situation at the moment were as we’ve used an independent inspection contractor for the last 10 years. Due to the problem with the Grenfelt fire the firm (Adis) have gone into liquidation due to the hick in their insurance premiums. We have four projects that are basically not going to get signed of leaving our clients in an uncomfortable position. They have to now go through local authorities at their cost as a new application which leaves us in a bit of a position as what one building inspector will pass another one won’t not ideal
This is uber important topic, in Poland as we approaching first certification process for homes ever. Previously we only got erection book log. And few standards intended for public sector. Now all going to change and we know that private "Nadzór Budowlany" will have competition soon. UK is like lab where we can see what will be next. Just like with gas lines and gas suppliers which dropping customers because of price freeze.. Thread that fine line Roger!✌️
When I was on building sites health and safety officers were hated because they'd shut the site for petty reasons to cover their arse. We were the ones losing a day's work but they were salaried. I bet the same goes on with inspectors.
Just seen this video.
Sept 2020 the block of flats on St Mary's island 12 units went up on fire. I lost everything I owned. Burn though was about 20 minutes.
Lucky enough we had a sister block .
On inspecting on the sister block there wasnt any fire wall installed at all between the flats in the loft.
Flats where only 7 years old and the builders self inspected the building.
Strangely the same building company , Countryside, are involved still with Medway council still building flats for social housing .
I work for a company called SafeTime and we have developed a system called Inspect7 and with it you can carry out inspections like you said you and can take photos at the end you get a report and download it for further use
most jobs i worked on in the north of Scotland, the clerk of work inspected each part of the build before he allowed you too continue! To much of the Emu syndrome going on in the south.
Really informative! Thanks mate
Hi
As a joe blogs, who was just having an extension done, I’ve seen how inflexible a Local authority building control can be.
There was some Lawrson pines and an overgrown hazel tree near my foundations.
The architect I hired came out when he did the plans and saw the site and the “trees” and his engineer in Scotland (I’m in drought in Guildford) drew up the plans and calculations.
We then went and tendered it out to 6 building firms, and the best quote we had (20 pages long listing all points of the build, all costings, payment timetable, and a contract stating if the build went over the date we would get money back), not price, we went for.
Our builder mainly works in Fulham Chelsea Rayners park, and uses council BC mainly.
The plans were sent out to BC and my builders started the build and dug the foundations, deeper than the calcs (1m) builders did 1.6m just Incase.
Building control came round and saw the Larson pine and told my builder he needed to talk to the engineer because it needed engineered foundations.
The architect and engineer didn’t know what he wanted, and he wasn’t going to talk to my builder about what he wanted.
The architect and engineer basically fecked off and stopped answering my builders calls, and refused to talk to the building control guy.
So I bought a book off amazon about building control and phoned the council building control guy my self.
He then gave us a list of requirements each needed until he’d talk to us again.
I got a soil sample, not good enough, a tree specialist from rhs wisley who said that the soil was clay and the trees wouldn’t go near the clay because they don’t like it, and as long as the foundations were 1.6m it would be fine.
Not good enough, this was over a month now.
So I phoned him up and said ‘ you want it piled don’t you, because that what it says in the book.
Yes, and he wasn’t going to work with our engineer, so I had to get another one, but he wouldn’t tell me one.
So I phoned up his office, and one of the nice ones gave me the Guildford council engineers! Very good called THDG.
Why didn’t he just tell my builder this on the same day? Kris at this point was so embarrassed about all of this, he said he’d never had this before in his life, and I believe him, we went to and saw his other work in london, and all these delays took 3 months, and bless him he didn’t charge us for them.
So after that and the new calcs all went swimmingly, he’d turn up, Kris showed him the works just as they had been done, no hiding stuff etc.
Get to the part of the build the calcs don’t cover, the suspended wooden kitchen floor insulation( it was wooded because he said a poured concrete floor would crack because of the heave, and he wanted concrete beams, the floor is 6meters wide this was before we got THDG involved)
Kris looked them up and told us the price, which was eye watering we needed I think 30 of them, so I asked THDG if it could be wooden beams, way fricking cheaper as the piling we had done came to fourteen thousand pounds, I stupidly booked a company without telling my builder because I was so worried about this massive trench around my house.
He wanted Cellotex in between the beams, Kris had used cellutex in all the wall cavity’s but as it’s a wooded floor kitchen he didn’t want something that might hold moisture if we had a flood, so he used glass fibre insulation.
Building control comes round and says Celutex, Kris explains why he hasn’t so the BC guy then insists on Rockwool, but kris tells him that can hold moisture, nope rock wall or nothing.
Kris rips it all up does it for the next day, he asks him does he want to come and inspect it the next day? Oh no a photos fine.
They just finish it the next day and he come in uninvited trying to catch them cheating into my house uninvited!.
Well after all of this we got the certificate from Guildford and they passed it off.
Kris sits me down, apologises for all we’d been through, and said
“Well Andrew with this guy you KNOW your house is build well!”
😆
Sorry fellas I guess if I’d have gotten private the prosess might have been better.
The council bloke did this to another one of the mums at school, she still doesn’t have a certificate after 3 years, her builders charged her an extra £70000.00 for delays and never came back to sign it off.
I think there is a problem in regulation of all parts of the building process, and it can be luck if the draw.
Sorry fellas if you’ve gotten this far then god bless you!
Well whatever your Building Inspector lacked in bedside manner, it sounds like he did you a big favour. How far was your Lawson Cypress from your foundations? In a highly shrinkable clay subsoil that tree would need to be at least 7m away for a 1.65m deep foundation (the Hazel is almost irrelevant with 1.6m deep foundations it could be right next to the extension) Your architect and engineer said 1m foundations were deep enough. The Cypress would need to be 10m away (and the Hazel 3m away) for a 1m deep foundation. What did your architect tell your engineer for him to conclude 1m deep foundations would be ok? Clearly based in scotland he didn't visit himself! There is no substitute for having a local engineer who can visit if you have problems and understands local ground conditions. The 'good' local engineer you ended up with would surely have said if they disagreed with your Building Control Surveyors opinion, instead they designed piled foundations. Think what would have happened if the original BCO hadn't been so adamant that the foundation was wrong, or had passed it at 1.65m for an easy life. Next issue was the suspended concrete floor. Yes more expensive, but with heave from trees a ground bearing slab is out of the question. A lot of builders prefer suspended concrete floors even without heave problems, so they might have been a better choice especially as you are worried about flooding. On that point why would a builder consider fibreglass for floor insulation in an area that floods. Celotex is a PIR foam product, this is 'closed cell's so wont retain water like fibreglass, and you need less of it. Seems like that was yet another time the Council BCO had your interests at heart, and tried to help. I think I would have stuck to PIR, if flooding was a concern, but Rockwool is certainly tons better than fibreglass and would dry out eventually retaining most of its insulation properties. You would rather have gone to a private BCO? Do you think they would have asked for less than the Local Authority? If so that is a terrible indictment of Approved Inspectors, and the AI system. I would expect AI's to be equally as competent as LA BCO's (many were trained by LA's anyway).
From what you say the LA BCO really did you a favour, and looked after YOUR interests, not the builders and not the architects. If you aren't a building expert yourself, surely that is who you want looking after your build, not someone who just nods everything through. Your builder knew the trees were a problem straight away (that is why he dug to 1.6m) so credit to him for that, he just didn't realise how big a problem they were and why should he, that is what you pay architects and engineers for. As soon as the extension was proposed the first question that should have been asked was 'there are nearby trees, could the subsoil be clay?' A trial hole could have been dug and likely your local authority BCO would have inspected for free and told you needed engineered foundations. You could then have got quotes for those to decide if an extension was worth the extra expense, even before plans had been drawn up. Please don't shoot the messenger just because you don't like the message!
Hi!
I might not have made myself clear, I’d have loved to shoot the messenger and pop him into one of the cardboard tubes they poured the concrete into! 😆 but like my builder said at the end with this guy “YOU KNOW” your house is built right and the certificate really is deserved.
I got the piling company in before getting the local engineers in, because for a month I had a giant trench round 2 sides of my house, I was calling up the piling company while my wife was having contractions in the front room!.
The local engineer said it didn’t need piling and I should have gotten them in before I went behind Kris and just did it, but the building control guy wasn’t talking to anyone, so what was I to do? He wasn’t talking to my builder and the architect and engineer had disappeared.
I think the conclusions I’ve come to is there’s lots more dodgy architects than builders!.
Thanks for getting back and I do love watching your videos 👍👍
Having worked on new builds in the past and seen with my own eyes the amount of corner cutting that goes on is truly shocking , and the worst part is that sub standard work gets signed off because most of these places are sold off plan and the main building contractor just wants them finished at any cost so that they can pocket the money and move on to the next block of flats , my advise to anyone thinking of buying one of these units would be to pay for an independent surveyor to check it out properly before parting with there hard earned cash , you may well save yourself a lot of money and a lot of heartache.......
I agree totally. I have seen it many times. I always advise my customers to use the council BI. He isn't there to make the job more expensive but to look after your long term interests
In Scotland the LAs still have this responsibility. The system certainly isn't perfect as there can be huge delays and a great deal depends on the attitude and experience of the individual building inspector. Some apply common sense to safety requirements and come up with practical solutions, others simply don't care. The latter can cost you a fortune for no meaningful improvement in safety. I should clarify that my comments relate to refurbs not new builds..
I understand the need for maintaining building standards for reasons of safety and ensuring other things like properties are insulated property for climate emissions reasons.
But I personally feel the system is broken and there are people who want to do things to building regs but are prohibited by cost.
Like I personally experienced this, whereby I have a few unvented cylinders to fit.
I’m an experienced plumber and did my g3 qualification so I am qualified to fit unvented cylinders.
It didn’t warrant the hassle of joining schemes to sign off a handful of cylinders so I tried to do it via building control and they wanted £300 to sign off each cylinder even though I’m qualified to fit them.
Then there are people who may not be able to afford to pay somebody to fit double glazed windows, anybody with some limited skill can buy c or higher rated double glazed windows, screw them into a window aperture and squirt some foam around them most of the time.
But when they charge similar money around £300 a time to sign off, and I’ve personally experienced them coming out and all they did was stick device against the glass and let it bleep.
So vast majority of people undertaking diy work to save money will just say “fook” it and do the work anyway as it’s cost prohibitive to do it legally.
Then this business of it effecting resale of property also isn’t right either because a lot of the time having a certificate for things like boilers and electrical only guarantees it safe and done properly at the time of installation... it doesn’t guarantee continued safety if a DIYer butchers the electrics, or a builder moves a boiler or a home owner fails to annually service their boiler... yet the solicitors will not accept a current safety certificate which is more relevant than an installation certificate.
There is a great deal of truth in what you say, it is all about jumping through hoops. I have argued with the HSE and the likes of Corgi back in the day because it was all about making money and not about safety. Like you I have done my unvented course countless times but am still required to update it and maintain memebership of the CIPHE.
However when it come to a company that makes a billion pounds profit in a year the cost of compliance is not the issue.
Skill Builder yep,
When you have to redo your qualification every 5 years that is a reassessment that your knowledge is current and when they argue it’s about safety and being qualified that should be sufficient without the cost of belonging to schemes and if they want the paper building control should price it accordingly to allow qualified people to sign stuff off for reasonable cost.
But the issue is they say it’s about being qualified but make it all about the money and that’s why people like persimmons get away with so much.. there is even a Facebook group relating to problems with their homes
RB. You seem to have a thing with DIYers. Folk who generally do it are folk who generally make a better job of it. Our oil boiler was vented back into the central heating. Was like that from 2008 when fitted. By professional oil registered company. Abortion it was. Our 15000 conservatory and a few windows. Again installed by so called reputable company of professionals. Window's filled with tissue paper and covered in mastic. Box gutter fitted to a rotten timber board. Not every thing is butchered by DIY. So called professionals can be just as bad. Only difference is you pay a lot of money for a shit job that you can do better at a third of the price or more. That said some things are best left to people that know and if not comfortable with the job in hand then don't do it and get someone in who can
paul s where did you get that idea from?
I just said that the cost building control charges prohibits DIYers legally notifying it? Which would be a DIYer defence.
Only reason I mentioned DIYer in regards to boilers is because I’m trying to put an example of how an installation certificate isn’t worth the paper it’s written on, and that a lack of certificates should not pose an issue when selling a house in the way it does when it comes to things like gas and electrics where an up to date safety certificate should hold more value but doesn’t.
So when a DIYer wants to do work themselves, it should be feasible financially because much diy work springs from being unable to afford professionals... and there should be a way of getting it signed off legally.
But problem is it’s not about the safety aspect they make it out to be it’s about the money... hence why somebody qualified like me to fit unvented cylinders still can’t sign them off without either paying £300 a time for building control or money annually to belong to a scheme provider.
And like the windows you mentioned, DIY fit them, no certificate and solicitor will make you jump through hoops to get your hose sold.
Never mind the fact that they are better than the crafty wooden windows they may of replaced that didn’t need a certificate.
It’s same with insulation, roofing, electrics.
If I DIy fitted a consumer unit I would face same problem trying to sell house with it deemed dangerous, even if it replaced a rewirable wooden fuse box with no RCD protection... no way it would be more dangerous but if left alone it’s fine if changed can’t sell house? Go figure that one lol
But I agree there are lots of trades who aren’t so conscientious about their work and work to a low standard despite the qualifications and paperwork and I agree in that sense as I tend to do my own work for same reason.
But I always make sure I’ve familiarised myself with the relevant regulations to do it properly.
I do however still have the issue of getting work signed off legally as there is no financially viable path to do it as a DIYer and even if you do stump up the money often building control still won’t sign it off because they either refuse to or can’t even though it comes under building control.
@@paulos9304 I think you completely misread what RB said. Read it again. He is simply saying that it is onerous and expensive to get something like a diy window installation signed off so the DIYer doesn't bother. The only penalty is when you come to sell the house and the buyer wants all the paperwork.
Photos are a great idea, I don't know why the building trade doesn't do this. I worked for a large communications company and we required contractors to collect photographic evidence and document tests at all stages of a build. Just common sense for all involved.
Hi Roger I agree with all that you said. Thanks for your thoughts.
I hear you loud and clear, a local builder to me uses a private building control company, they are turning over 5 mil a year so a decent enough wedge for them and to be honest I've never seen an inspector on their works. The flip side is that local authority can be extremely take it or leave it, terrified of decisions and often inexperienced. I have personally moved on from the tools and re trained as an architectural designer ( www.pjh-design.co.uk) I use a private company to "police" around 30 projects a year, they are pragmatic and helpful, wont let anything go and wont sign off on a missed inspection, most importantly they are simply policing a thorough design and we work as a team when there are problems. Pros and cons both ways but for sure some companies have select blindness when they see green!!!! At my low level residential level I push clients towards private, they are 10% dearer on inspection fees but wont insist on a piled foundation for a porch that is less than 5% of the house area when there is a twig in the next county.......the cost of residential construction is on the rise, we need a sensible balance before we are all priced out of a job
The best way to stop this. In my opinion is for the banks to refuse mortgages until assurances have been obtained and then random checks using whatever technology is required. This will force builders to comply with all the correct procedures. Or they will never sell a house that requires a mortgage. At least that's my two penneth 👍🏻
There is a solution. I work in offshore construction previously a Chief Engineer on ships. All ships need to be Classed by one of the societies such as Lloyds, DNV-GL, ABS etc. Naturally, they all want the inspection work but, in order to avoid companies hopping around they all got together and formed the International Association of Classification Societies. What that means in practice is that when a surveyor visits a ship any defects he has found must be cleared before any other Class society will take a ship on. The same should apply here and it could be mandated by law. If a company wants to move inspection services then any outstanding defects or problems must be cleared before that is allowed.
Great idea. May as well use the technology as it is there.
My brother has an in build project with steels. Steel to spec and bolted to design. Inspector won't sign it off until all bolted joints are fully welded. I lost confidence with inspectors when one told me he didn't understand what A rated windows were....
Excellent advice...thank you.
It's not just fire, you should see insulation being installed. Contractors cut it too small, don't fill in the gaps and just cover it up with plasterboard.
Hi Roger. We are looking to do a substantial refurb of our family home and found this video very interesting. We had considered just allowing the architect to monitor the build etc but is it worth having a Clerk of work and is this typical on domestic builds? Will it be hard to spec and will it cost the earth?
It was local authority who signed off Grenfell tower.. without cavity barriers around the windows etc etc
You only have to watch some of the house inspection videos, on this channel to see the issue, as always its money, reduce costs increase profit. Same videos, on the very odd occasion they will have a well built house, so it can be done.
I worked for one of the major house builders for 8 years. I have worked flats,3 and 4 storey buildings in that’s time. They never put peoples safety first. They don’t have a clue how to prevent the spread of fire (fire stopping). As you have said they don’t install fire barriers. The fire door they are installing may as well be standard internal doors. A fire door is made up of several components, fire rated door, fire rated frame, fire rated hinges, door closer and intumescent seals. The door should be installed with gaps 3mm-4mm, the packers should be kept 10mm back from both sides of the frame, the gap between the frame and wall should be fill with intumescent material, then the architraves installed. The doors the major house builders are installing don’t have any identification stickers on them to say how long the door rated for. They are using MDF frames with out any identification stickers on them to say how long the frame rated for. The hinges aren’t even fire rated. They stopped installing door closers incase children trapped their fingers. What use is an open fire door? They don’t put ant intumescent material round the frame, so if there was a fire it would spread from one side to the other in a matter of minutes. I wouldn’t like to think I was buying a new build off one of the major builders. All we can do is hope there isn’t a major fire in a new build.
Agree with many points, however Building Control (BC) has no teeth. If you challenge a building control on an issue once a completion cert has been issued they hide behind case law. Basically a BC Completion Cert is not worth the paper it is written on whoever writes it
I worked in a Local Authority BC in the mid 90's. NHBC had a bad reputation then, it does not sound like it has got any better.
I remember the words of wisdom from the old fire brigade public information films.
Get out. Get the fire brigade out. And stay out.
*except London Fire Brigade
Stay in
Don't worry
Stay in.
It's only burning 8 floors ....but don't worry. ....stay in .
It's exactly the same here in Australia. Jack the blind miner could tell you that privatization of building inspection is a recipe for disaster at every level. Self regulation equals no regulation. Over here there have been and are multiple royal commissions being held into failures clearly attributable to government abrogation of responsibility to protect the consumer. Privatization in my opinion is a fundamentally flawed principle and I wholeheartedly agree with you Roger. At at the end of the day, it boils down to big business and their interests trumping the interests of the consumer.