Get the Most Aluminum From Melting Cans
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- čas přidán 19. 01. 2017
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Today i show you how to get the most metal out of melting aluminum cans at home. I use the improved mini metal foundry i made in another video, and turn my recycling into pure ingots. Also there are some tips to improve the metal easily for better results.
This process was gathered from tips from many helpful sources, thank you to everyone that offered input.
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this is easily one of the most interesting casting vids ive seen. NO ONE addresses the difference in pure vs not, and what its missing, or how to adjust it. great vid man!
+Seth Howell thanks! I only talked about the silicon content thing because I'm a massive nerd lol
Heart disease in our metals is a real problem. Thank you for being so good to your metals!
I hear you :)
Glad you've progressed beyond this stage!
Yeah cans are no fun. Now only cast aluminum, and I'm about to switch to only cast aluminum wheels or purchased ingots.
Some of the old timers used to put a thick layer of charcoal in the crucible on top of the metal working on the theory that as it burns it creates a layer of CO2 on top of the liquid metal to keep the oxygen away and prevent oxidation. The man who told me has been dead for decades now so I can't ask him what metals he used it with or how thick a layer but it might be worth experimenting with.
Makes sense.
Another way is to put argon into the furnace or to bubble it up through the metal inside the crucible.
This requires a tube that resists very high temperatures.
I haven't watched any "Paul's Garage" for a while... I forgot how cool it is.
Mate thanks for the tip. I admire your dedication to smelting aluminium while it was so cold where you were!
after MANY hours of serching,(literally just 5) I have found my favorite CZcamsr for melting mettle. your hilarious
also, how do heatsinks help? is it like the computer kind?
+explosev gamr the heat sink was just a thick chunk of aluminum to form a molten pool first. Cans are too thin and when they melt they oxidize, plunging them into an existing pool first helps prevent that.
Useful video for beginners. Thank you.
I thoroughly enjoy watching your videos. Not only am I learning something but I am very entertained while doing so.
thanks! i'm glad you like them :D
Im glad to have seen this video, thank you for posting it. I have just started forging and using the salt on my last 4 videos i was able to reclaim ALOT of alum from my dross. Also included my first attempts of sand casting... learning alot
This was very informative. Thank you
Only two and a half years late to your vids, but better late than never! I'm going to try the Lo-Salt tip tomorrow because you're right - the amount of dross from cans is horrendous. In fact today I ended up with a smaller alumuffin (oooh, I like that!) than the one I STARTED with, despite adding a bucketload of cans: the amount of dross (and aluminium bound up in it) was greater in volume (if not weight) than the alumuffin. Love your channel - have a sub! :)
Awesome. Thank you.
nice video man i'm getting started in aluminum casting and really you give me some nice tips that i didn't know any thing about keep up the good work
Thanks! glad i could help
I really like your humor and your videos are good
And interesting
Thank you
That was really cool and great info. Thanks
Hey Paul, I just found your channel and your metallurgy tips are quite helpful. Now I will look around and hopefully find how you built your furnace. Thanks, Kenn
I built a new once since this video, I have a few videos on it, something about a fire brick foundry furnace in the ttle
Paul you can make a really good cheap propane burner just look up "how to make an aluminum foundry" by the backyard scientist. mine got hot enough to melt copper easily and you wont have to deal with refilling the charcoal every few minutes and you wont have a bunch of ash to deal with when your done melting to. fair warning make sure you have a thick and durable crucible because i have all ready burned holes in some of mine. good luck.
Thanks for the tip. I'm goign to make a propane burner before too long. With hardwood lump charcoal i never get ashes in the bottom of the furnace, but it burns out so quickly i can't get the thing reliably hot enough for copper.
It’s a furnace not a foundry! Just saying.
Amazing video! Was actually surprised, I subed and liked your video!!
the lines you talked about comes from gasses in your mix, i've seen people use baking soda to combat that with reasonable outcomes. and the shrikage in the center of your ingots comes from having no silica (and also i think in part from the gasses)
Thanks Paul! This a great tip! I have been collecting aluminum cans for awhile waiting for spring to start casting but was having doubts about using them because I kept hearing the same: they are a good cheap source of alumimum/they are garbage, don't use them. Relieved to know I can use them for casting projects. BTW, I enjoy many of your videos and the information you share. Thanks!
Hi stephen! this is a pretty old video, i would suggest using the aluminum from cans for making alloys like aluminum bronze, but I wouldn't use them alone for castings unless you have a mold with plenty of head pressure or something. This stuff will have a higher shrinkage rate and higher surface tension. Nothing that can't be compensated for, of course, but it's not ideal. I used these to make aluminum bronze (90% copper, 10% aluminum). It's great.
You are really funny man! Totally enjoyed watching your videos. Keep creating awesome content:) You deserve more subs!
Thanks! glad you enjoyed :D
Been looking for a alum flux. Thanks for sharing. We are now subbed.😎⛏⛏🔥🔥
You're the best Paul
This was fun, like the muffin pan mold,😊 forgot the Pam😊
hair dryer❤ Love your Proper English, you must be related to me we have our own family dictionary 😅 good job
Thoughtful comments on how to reduce aluminum dross!
Another good video Paul. If you find out what the can alloy actually is and what the silicon content of 356 aluminum is you can crush up the right amount of silicon and toss it in to improve the casting properties of the can metal. You can do the same thing by adding some aluminum from pistons because they're very high in silicon. Burning teflon is super poisonous.
Hi pete! I probably could crush up the silicon and add it to the aluminum, but i have lots of cast aluminum already and i don't want to waste the silicon. I might be able to get a hold of some junk pistons, though. Making everdur is something i want to do as soon as i get the next furnace built, though.
Is it silicon carbide that's in cast aluminum? You can see it in the grain structure when you observe a broken piece. Shiny little specks. The shrinkage is natural and occurs in all molten metals to differing degrees as they cool.
Look out for cans with ANY moisture in them, cause if you put a can with moisture in a pool of molten aluminum you'll get a REALLY interesting explosion!!!
Why didn't you remove the crap before you poured... lol
Thanks bro
Thanks!
Thank YOU very much!
Finally the answer I was seeking. Off to remelt that shiny dross with some salt. I plan to use an ugly ingot to establish my pool for can melting. Look into fireplace gear for stirrers and grabbers. My "store" bought furnace kit came with some but not nearly as durable as my old fireplace tongs.
Hello Paul! Im just getting into forging but I dont know what to hold the crucible in, any tips?
Thank you for being entertaining. Now to see if you have anymore videos....
Yup I’m definitely happy I kept a goodly amount of old 400mh lamp ballasts
Tonnes of aluminum and a tonne of copper
Sad I sold the first batch of copper rather than melting it to pure but atleast I kept all the aluminum shades and ballasts 😊
Dope thanks
your self commentary is brilliant
Thanks! glad you enjoyed :D
Space laser sound effects at 09"30! So, what was your yield in terms of weigh of cans in vs weight of cans out?
Cut up cans, ring-pulls, tops & bottoms of cans, & the shards covered In paint dross wise, this I just got to try, aluminium seems to be the easier to start off, so looking for electric smelter 3-4 kilos yes I have plenty of beer cans, all cut up & ready for smelting any advice you could possibly offer would be gratefully appreciated, many thanks, yours truly! P/S, thanks for the flux Info.
That's a really nice big chunk of silicon you've got there!
+edgeeffect I'm trying to resist the urge to flintknap it. Imagine a chrome arrowhead!
Note on aluminum can alloy
Typically it's 3003
From Wikipedia
The alloy composition of 3003 aluminium is:
Aluminium: 96.8 to 99%
Copper: 0.05 to 0.20%
Iron: 0.7% max
Manganese: 1.0 to 1.5%
Silicon: 0.6% max
Zinc: 0.1% max
Residuals: 0.15% max
Borax makes an amazing flux for this process.🤠👍😁
can you just use regular table salt? I don't know where to get potassium chloride.
would using borax done the same thing? Getting ready for my first pour!
when you ram up the furnace lid prop the steel band up 1/2 inch above the bottom face of the refractory. this will keep the steel hoop cooler and it won't expand so much.
I always thought silicon is added to the aluminium for casting to make it flow better. So Question: Why is the silicon from the casting a problem when you're going to use the aluminium for casting?
Mad Max reference!
+Zaco Cast mad max is best max
Awesome Video Paul - Thanks. Really liked 1) The Flux Experimentation - was cool that you fluxed the dross & squeezed out a bit more Aluminum and 2) Very interesting how to gain a better quality of Aluminum by adding %5 copper. For a while I was scrapping & collecting copper. A lot of the newer electronics save on the cost by using a super thin Copper coating on Aluminum wire for electrical conductivity. So I have quite a bit of Copper coated Aluminum wire that I thought was basically crappy Aluminum. However Thanx to your video the Copper coated Aluminum wire might just melt into a slightly better quality Aluminum!!! The one thing I wandered about was the dross in the crucible - if you had thick gloves or a better pair of tongs I wandered if you turned the crucible upside down & tapped it on the cement if the dross would fall out??? Thanx Again: Shawn
Thanks! THe fluxing worked really well, i was surprised. Someone recently told me that 95% aluminum with 5% copper is called duralumin if you want to look that up. It's a pretty decent alloy. I didn't record it, but i did actually turn the crucible over and bang it on the cement to get some dross out. Not all of it came out, though. Quite a bit stayed stuck in there. I don't have a way to scrape it out, but melting cans left FAR more crud in there than melting scrap cast aluminum, so i probably won't do cans again. All the dross was a good thing later, when i did the keychain casting video the crucible actually got a hole in the bottom of it and the dross and crud plugged it up so it was a very slow drip. I was able to pour and everything without losing any significant metal out the hole. It's in the garbage now, though.
Duralumin:
3,5-5,5 % Cooper; 0,5-0,8 % Magnesium; 0,6 % Manganese,94-95%Aluminium,Si=0.2-0,5%.
(Cans are actually made from two alloys 5004 which is 1% each of Manganese and Magnesium used for the body of the can and 5182 1% Manganese and 4% Magnesium for the lid.(data from Olfounryman channel))
As you can see, your recipe with Cooper is so close...
Fighting recipe with dissolved metal crucible:mix ''liquid glass'' with refractory clay, or kaolin, or bentonite (cat litter), or chalk and paint every time before melting.Paint everything what you immerse in molten aluminium.
Works very well!And cheap...
Toto hey I'm trying to understand what you're saying but I'm not sure I do . Could you explain what you said a little better ? Because I'm really interested in what your saying.
Thanks !
Paul, would you know if you could successfully use your foundry as a black Smith forge to make knives and such?
+ajinthevalley NS probably yes. The burner would work fine and it can get the metal to orange hot, but you would need better insulation if you want welding temperatures. Also the design is meant mainly to hold a crucible so the shape might not work for holding certain work pieces.
Can you clean your crucible with hydrochloric acid when you're done?
Does mixing salt into the aluminum change its properties much?
A longer mixer might be a good idea!!!.
I use a pound cake pan and make like big bars out of them
+mark hodsdon that sounds pretty cool!
Paul's Garage yes it is and there about five pounds each im working on a new foundry like you have do you think that the other mix is lasting better so far
+mark hodsdon yeah this mix is working great. No signs of damage after almost a year
Paul's Garage cool thats what ill do and i subed
Do you make "like" big bars, or just big bars?
What happens when you drastically overheat aluminum can it be remounted and be good
What about crushing cans, could it help?
Cans are made out of 3004, so it's an Aluminum Manganese alloy. Largest share by volume of aluminum that's produced industrially.
Stamp a C on there for "Cast" and one for "Can" so you can keep track which is which
Percent cannot be calculated by weight but by volume because the wieghts are very different!
Did you try plunging soda ash into the aluminium?
thanks for the flux tip, i have some large chunks of aluminumy dross i might try to reheat later
You're welcome! I was able to pull a lot of aluminum out of the dross, even after fluxing it a lot the first time, you should have good luck.
I love your videos.
Keeeeeppppppp iittt uuuupppp!!!!
Thank you, good sir!
Does this salt method work with all metals?
Wish my locations would allow this. The local yards (USA-TN) will not take them.
flame are from plastic and suger leftover in the cans :D
why not removing dross before puring?
PS: flame the non stick treathment from the pan with a torch, before puring the ingots. Less risk to inhale the fumes :D
Very informative vid, thanks. did not catch the name of the flux you used though - can you please comment on the name and is there other fluxes we might use, seen candle wax and sawdust used with lead - might those work for aluminum too?
it's Lite salt/Losalt, basically just low sodium table salt from the grocery store. I'm not sure sawdust or candle wax would work with aluminum.
Yes
instead of salt you could use borax.
Borax is like 5 times more expensive than the aluminum.
I remember being told that borax shouldn't be used with aluminium. Not sure if it's true, though.
thefourthtuxzt have you meant salt instead of aluminium? Anyway, borax is still very cheap. In my country, it costs ~$2 for half a kilogram :)
+thefourthtuxzt Aluminum is free when it comes in the form of discarded cans. 5 times free (0) = free (0).
@@Orc-icide Just like your Mom and wife bro!
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Hey Paul, love the video and the humor! I kind of follow the same procedure you recommend for melting cans. I need to try adding the flux during the melt, that seemed to help pull more AI out from the dross. Thanks for the tip.
Thanks! it does help get more metal out of the dross but i'm worried that it is over fluxed . I think if i mix a bunch of heat sinks in with the melted ingots though it should balance out the mix, and i'm not sure how the flux will effect it when i mix it with copper to make aluminum bronze, but i guess i'll have to try it out and see!
Great video and tips. I was just about to melt some aluminum. Do you know about how many cans you melted and what was the recovery rate. Is it smarter to get the 5 cent deposit or melt it. (Melting is more fun) Just thinking return rate even though I will probably still melt because I love having ingots. Thanks!
unfortunately i didn't count the number of cans exactly. in general, i think getting the 5 cent deposit and then using that to buy scrap cast aluminum is the most cost effective way to get the most materials, but where i live we don't have the 5 cent deposit. I wont get a cent from these so i just melted them lol
Best way to Start a Video
charmx would love it
and also
this video was quite _salty_ wasn't it? hehe
+MaxPlayAll yes indeed, I'm afraid the aluminum is going to suffer from high blood pressure after all that salt
Paul's Garage lets hope the best for you
Really cool videos, I'm in the same process of learning this stuff right now. I did get to do a little sand casting in high school but, the instructor handled the furnace. I've been gathering the things to make one much like yours, do you plan on using gas with this one?
Probably not with this furnace, but it's possible. I plan on switching over to some kind of gas at some point in the future, but the next furnace i plan to build will be designed with charcoal in mind just like this one. There's no reason i couldn't use a propane burner with this furnace or the next one whenever i get around to it, though. I wish i got to do this in high school, the closest I got was lost wax casting small things (like rings) in an art metals class and the art teacher handled the torch.
Paul, new subscriber, love your style and knowledge. Question: how did you affix the blow dryer to the pipe for air induction? The diameter of the blow dryer I purchased is much larger than the 1" pvc. Just screw it and tape it or what, Paul? Great videos. Thank you!
When I melt I just tape it, I will still leave small gaps in the tape so that the hair dryer doesn't completely die. If you are not worried about murdering the dryer, just affix it to the pipe with miles of tape. If you watch the video you can see that Paul did the latter with a bunch of grey tape, this of course gives the advantage of MORE FIRE!
+RC pi yep exactly. Lots and lots of tape, that's what I did. I taped it to a 2" to 1" reducer thingy and screwed that into a 1" pipe
I've been saving all my aluminium-y dross looking for a means of "refining" it.... I'll flux the crap out of it next weekend.
to filter the crap on the top try cutting a steel plate to sit on top to strain the stuff
That's a good idea, has to beat a spoon with pliers like i used lol
Put a spout on the crucible so that you actually pour from near the bottom (like a gravey bowl).
Actually gravy boat I think?
This is the Perfect YT Video. How many years have I thought about it, wondering about it
not sure if bot comment...
@@PaulsGarage Again.... LIES! Your TWO BOTS won't even let you mindlessly click thumbs-up on your YT video comments!
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Oxygen turns iron into rust, and yet we breath it. 8)
We rust too, In the form of reactive oxygen species aka free radicals.
@@SiegePerilousEsauMaltomite You could stop breathing
love the new video i wonder if you chemically treated the cans before to remove the paint and plastic if you'd end up with a lot less dross the pans i use are extruded and im 90% certain pure aluminum and i generally get very little dross. i think surface area has alot less to do with it and its mainly the vinyl paint, and plastic coating that is responsible for the dross.
Thanks! I think you are right, the plastic is the main problem. i'm sure there is a way to remove the coating with something, but i think just using extrusions is probably easier. there is so little metal in a single can that i doubt it's worth the effort.
no, if you remove the coating, you expose more aluminum to the air before hand, which will cause even more oxidization before you even get to start melting it. Most of the dross is from the side walls of the cans due to such thin aluminum. Try throwing aluminum foil in a fire, its like that. If you wanted maximum metal out of cans, you would just cut the tops and bottoms off of the cans and use only those, the side walls dont really have any metal to them.
thats a good point, the sides of the cans are stretched pretty thin, and the plastic would form a nice barrier. I bet as the plastic burns it would eat up some of the oxygen in the can, too, preventing the aluminum from oxidizing. the top is a different alloy, too, if i'm not mistaken, but it's just a couple percent manganese or something like that.
good video
thanks!
So you can fish the crap off of the top before you pour it, I've been doing that and it's made pouring much easier. I just smashed some scrap steel to make a spork type thing with a long handle to fish it off. Plus it's fun to play blacksmith and hammer stuff.
I've never done the lite salt, but that is pretty great. I'll have to do that with my next batch.
The scooper is a good idea. I need to make one of those up. The spoon with channel locks just isn't capable of getting the dross out with the cans, there was just way too much of it. The dross left over is non-metallic though so that's nice, i think i got all the aluminum out with the lite salt.
well you just got a new subscriber
+The Mad Man glad to hear it! Welcome!
Hey Paul please tell me what can I do with chrome glass
Not sure, sorry!
Hey ! I really liked your video and content in general, but I've got a question : what kind of gloves are you using ?
Because where I live there are no ''high heat'' resistant gloves for sale (or at least I couldn't find a store wich did sell them...) so I wondered if it was that big of a deal if I hadn't these ''high heat'' gloves (I do have other gloves, but they can't withstand these kind of temperatures). So what would you recommend ? Should I order ''high heat'' resistant gloges on internet, or will the gloges I already have do the work ? (I do not plan to get my hands inside the furnace of course, just to get the lid on or off and to refuel)
I use a couple different gloves, don't remember which ones are in this video. one pair is just gardening gloves (100% leather), and the other is a pair of welding gloves. I talk more about them in a video somewhere about foundry safety equipment, but basically the welding ones are better. I think foundry gloves or fireman's gloves would be better yet. I don't know which high heat gloves you are talking about, but the higher heat resistant the better probably. You don't need to get your hands in the furnace to get cooked.
When I spoke about high heat resistant gloves, I hadn't any kind of gloves in mind, just a pair that can withstand high temperatures. Anyway I ordered welding gloves on the internet yesterday, that can withstand tempertures of up to 500°C (I know the furnace reaches temperatures way higher than that, but I think it'll be ok as long as I don't drop molten metal on me...). But thanks a lot for your answer !
I make my initial pool with bits of cast aluminium.... don't know if that helps much at all but it's what I do.
Hey paul and paul watchers ever gonna come back to the charcoal foundry?
More inportantly does anyone know what kind of fumes come off of this kind of foundry setup? And how to possibly avoid those fumes?
Nope, I gave the charcoal foundry away to someone. The fumes are probably the same as a charcoal grill, plus whatever comes off the metal being melted
where did u find the 10 qt steel bucket and the 2.5 qt bucket? i can't find em anywhere
+Dante Kania I got them at a home improvement store, specifically Menards.
Can that homemade smelter melt copper
What are you using the ingots for? Either way cool video!
These ones from the cans i plan to use for making alloys (like aluminum bronze), but that cast aluminum (aluminum with silicon in it) ingot i showed at the end i'm going to use for sand casting various things, including some tools from the Gingery book series i mentioned in some other video.
That mad max refrence
+speirs the amazing I wish I had just one car from that movie. They are all awesome.
With the copper, would a layer of oxidation be an issue like with the aluminum do you suppose?
+Cheerfultrout yes, in fact copper oxidizes more aggressively I believe. People often use cover fluxes or stuff charcoal in the crucible to take up the oxygen when doing copper.
Hey Paul - Paul here... good tip with the copper addition to the aluminum. I'm casting sculptures, and was wondering how to do away with shrinkage... mostly notice it in the Sprue, not the cast pieces below. I'd hate to find out the hard way. Subbed.
+zillustration hi Paul! Adding copper won't really help shrinkage as much as silicon, and aluminum will always shrink somewhat. If your sprues and risers are of sufficient size/locations, you shouldn't have damage to the piece. Are you doing lost wax or something?
search zillustration or paul zdepski on FB - i have some public on my page... plus pics of my furnace. Will be trying lost wax, but currently using Super Sculpey to make my models, then casting in fine green sand. A friend of mine is a jeweler, so he's got the super fine stuff. Great detail with finer sand.
Subscribed to your channel as well, I suspect you will be a channel well worth watching. Mark
mad max reference !!
Mediocre!
I like your coat!!!
You should really rethink pouring over concrete. If the aluminum spills, the heat can cause the surface to literally explode into your face. Pour over sand or dirt.
Good call. I don't live at the location in this video anymore but i'm thinking of building a sand bed for casting in the new place for sure
If u add sulfur to ur flux it makes an unstable explosive please keep this in mind when doing scrap melting if their is sulfur in ur mix up can get explosive bubbles to full out bang. Use borax instead of salt if u think there might be sulfur present.
Awesome video! I'm very surprised how many aluminium bars you were able to create with this amount of cans. Has the area in front of your garage turned into a place for ice skating after you've emptied the bucket? :-D
it did get icy! We got freezing rain that night so i wasnt concerned about the water from the bucket, the whole city got covered in ice lol
Aww man I was hoping it had caulk in it. I thought thats what binded it all together lol
Hello Sir, I am from the Ivory Coast in West Africa. I live in another country called Mauritania. One of my activities is to buy used aluminum cans, plastic cans and bottles with a view to sell them to a Chinese company, which transforms them into various finished products. I want to become like them and like you by making large-scale finished products myself. What advice can you give me to achieve this?