Why We Have The Worst Media In The Western World | Downstream
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- čas přidán 8. 04. 2023
- In The UK, the last few decades have shown the steepest decline in trust in the media globally, second only to Egypt. How did we get here? Is it as simple as Rupert Murdoch wielding his malice more fervently here then elsewhere? Or are there insidious cultural factors that meant our newspapers, and increasingly our broadcasters, were destined to be made more boring, inaccurate and corrupt?
To discuss this Ash is joined by Aaron Bastani.
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I’m 70 years old and the only hope we have are young people like you
Wish we could see more off you on TV your honesty integrity and knowledge is amazing
UK media is the fakeest fake news to ever exist
I grew up pro-US and pro-west. Then came disclosure that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was faked by the US to expand rhe Vietnam War. Even then, I made excuses for the US, telling myself that it was an one-off aberration.
Then, in the run-up to the war on Iraq on false pretence, I could see the US steadfastly insisting on Iraqi having WMD, even though no evidence was produced, other than a vial of white powder, which Colin Powell had no hesitation in holding in his hand, and even though the UN inspectors had said Iraq had no WMD. My trust in the US and western mainstream media fell to zero.
Then came the BBC report that Syria had used chemical WMD on a bunch of civilian stragglers. The first thing that came to my mind was why would Syria use WMD on powerless, harmless civilian stragglers. Yet, the BBC reported it without hesitation. Surely, experienced journalists could not be so naive. They were intentionally lying! My trust in western governments and mainstream media fell below zero into negative territory.
Then came reports in all western mainstream media of the fake Xinjiang genocide -- without a single body produced for the alleged genocide. My trust in western government and mainstream media fell into a bottomless pit.
In the Ukraine war, I could (using corroborative evidence and critical thinking) see that western governments and mainstream media have been lying on an epic, criminally fraudulent scale.
My trust in western governments and mainstream media is lost forever.
Snap .....
Are you joking? He literally whines about the Observer because they didn't review his book.
These are the sort of mouthpieces which will keep the tories in power.
"the only hope"???
what - dishonest whining fake-communists, always pretending to be victims?
Behave mate
I’m 67! White bloke and I love you! A breath of fresh air. Keep up the great work.
64, white Irish (living in England) and devoted to NM. They probably have more older viewers than they realise. Think by this stage in life, if you do not recognise BS you have gone wrong. NM is a no BS zone.
I am 80 and love N M . Left the Guardian 2 years ago after years of reading it . Please keep going . WWE need you and thank you
I’m 74 years old and love to listen to you guys. So refreshing, informative and encouraging. Keep going. ❤
You're 74 years old but it took you this long?? 🙄🙄 you oldl people are responsible for this young falling behind
@@Blacktolite you wrong man.
We are only now seeing the extent of the lies they were told.
We got Internet they had word of mouth or TV propaganda.
We all to blame still letting them get away with talking Pure Shit.
I’m 63, a white southerner home owner and I love Novara Media and what you guys are doing.
I don’t agree with everything you say, but here’s the thing, that’s good! Beliefs need to be challenged, otherwise how will you know if you believe the correct things?
I agree. Mainstream media is getting ever more coloured a certain way, so it's nice to have an alternative that presents the news in a more human light.
Come back when you own a few more homes!! You’re right. You’re absolutely right to carry on being open minded. As you get older, having this understanding of how the older folks are treated (you’re still young to me!) as an example should keep you onboard with NM.
@@maxine2798 the banking debacle of 2008 hurt me badly, I’m self-employed. My mortgage would have finished in 2020, I had to remortgage, it won’t be paid until I’m 75. The only way my three kids will get on the housing ladder is when I sell up and divide it up between them! It annoys me that young adults nowadays will not have the chances we had.
We need you to counteract the right wing dross , keep up the great work
You're claiming you are 63 years old, this has been happening since you have been 23. Why take so long to smell the coffee ☕
As a retired (fairly senior) British Police officer I cut an unlikely profile as a subscriber to your channel, however I find your content is refreshingly accurate and impartial in a way which gives the lie to the modern political zeitgeist and cuts through the establishment propaganda machine (and a lazy brained population sleepwalking through the relentless glacial erosion of their own living standards whilst the ruling classes cynically exploit their sedentary status through a mainstrem media driven strategy of misinformation and gaslighting). Having served in a very large northern police force for 30 years from the early 80s I can attest to it's being a microcosm of the operation of the malign intent and contrived divisions now prevailing in broader British society. NM is required viewing for me and I fervently hope you will continue to thrive, indeed my instinct is that history will judge your work as pivotal in driving what must inevitably become an age of enlightenment when the emperor's nakedness will be there for all to see. To that end, and in my own modest way, I'll be supporting you via your website…Keep the faith guys, All the best, David
BLOODY HELL HOW REFRESHING TO HEAR A POLICEMAN SPEAK THE TRUTH .THANK YOU SIR
Just as precise and articulate as it is fucking basedddd - love this take
@@biffa1234100 thank you….I feel compelled to 👍🏻
Very well put, thank-you..
British media fake distorted agenda-driven Media
63 years white Scottish, thank gdness for NM. Really appreciate real humans who know their stuff and speak intelligently and truthfully, about the state of things we all can see happening. Love you both for your clear and honest comment. Keep up the good work.
"I'm a white person who simp to minorities who hate me." Round of applause.
Small independent media like you guys will hopefully be the saving grace of British news media
I’m a 65 year old white male served in the forces then spent 25 years in the fire service I’m depressed by the state of the British politics and the British media I see no way out
it's pretty gloomy isn't it. You are not alone.
Read Capitalist Realism by Mark Fisher, small book.
We're all getting as black pilled as Peter Hitchins. It's orge.
Et, keep the faith!
Guardian is the most underhand newspaper… they caused Jeremy’s defeat in 2019 .. always suspicious of guardian .
The Guardian was actually the frontrunner in the witch hunt against Corbyn. Always prime item on their website.
It's great on a number of things but tbis stops me paying for their content.
Grest the Guardian gets called out here. Pernicious!
The Guardian has changed and it's now more like MSM. It's also becoming a more cautious not to publish articles that can challenge the path is taken by the UK labour moving to a position one can hardly distinguish from Tory in many respects or even democrat in the US pursuing to militarise further NATO, keeping quiet about the Nord Stream sabotage like all of them with no desire to investigate any particular aspects of this war unknown to masses and taking no interest in events around Julian Assange! It's now simply reporting rather than dissecting political matters deeply!
@Forbidden Planet someone did that to me the other day. I said I don't read it, don't 'like' it on Facebook anymore and when I did and they would post their Corbyn smears the backlash in the comments was incredible
When it was the Manchester Guardian it claimed to support the Working Class - it didn't and still doesn't. I used to buy it for Steve Bell and brilliant feature writers like Mark Steel. When it became a Blairite rag I couldn't stomach the Editorials any longer, so stopped buying it.
We have no National Daily supporting the Working Class. At best you get a lot of middle-class hand-wringing with lashings of wishy-washy liberalism.
Neolibs and right wingers have the same enemy
It could be worse… thankfully we have NOVARÁ MEDIA❤❤🎉
I'm what would have been called a blonde haire, bye eyed , Anglo Saxon male, who is in his 71st year, and I have to say that you guys are doing a brilliant job, Thank you 👍
I’m weirdly glad I was born in Newry in 1970. When you’re from British-Occupied Ireland, you never need illusions of media-veracity dispelled. “D-notice Great Britain”, 4th Estate? My arse.
I know.
I'm thankful for the day I discovered Novara. I'm 75. I love you young people. It gives me hope for the future. My Dad was a trade union man on the railways. He was intelligent and quietly gave me a grounding in democratic socialism. I have never lost it.
When _did_ the Guardian become so reactionary? Was it when Rushbridger left? Was it when the security services took a hammer to their hard drives after the Snowden fiasco? Or was it earlier?
Not a lot of difference between the Guardian and the Mail when it comes to the Royal Mail situ, etc.Smacks of labour trying to garner right wing votes
70 yo Scottish woman here Ash! Yes, am really concerned about way country is going. Never want to see people struggling once again as they did in the 50's. MSM doesnt tell us properly what is going on in England and UK wide. Keep on speaking up, all of yous!
Great discussion guys although it would have been good to also discuss Murdoch’s role in the UK media and how his ownership of several publications and the constant propaganda from them has successfully shaped the national narrative, people’s thinking and voting habits, and government policy for the last 50 years. There’s a reason why many people see him as the most powerful figure in the country (some would say the world with the ownership of fox) as he alone has personally picked every PM and US president for that period. People think we live in Tory britain when in reality we live in Murdoch’s Britain!
Even the rise of Nigel farage is effectively because of Murdoch’s support!
7😢6j
A really beautiful, informative episode of Downstream. I'm 53, worried about my country and my world, and struggling personally. Don't believe in this young and old divide. I know there is some validity to it statistically, but most ordinary people, though some may be in denial, are suffering at the hands of the current regime whether they're willing to fully acknowledge it or not. You're not alone, you're doing great work. Genuine and thoughtful criticism aside, take every idiot who slurs you as a badge of honour. You are, it seems, pissing off all the right people.
50 year old straight white guy here and NM is the best news channel I've had the pleasure of watching and listening to. I don't always agree with everything you have to say but I love what you are all doing - especially when you get invited onto mainstream tv!
We criticise north Korea propoganda environment and laud Western countries for having a very different media envirinment. However, it is just a difference in form or degree. There is just as much content manipulation and control. It is slightly more subtle but Julian Assange is a glaring example of what happens to those that dare to challenge the true hidden boundaries of what is acceptable to share with the working class.
North Korean media is better they don't use yellow peril lens filters like the BBC 😊
Why do you think that the banking crisis was a failure? It was a total success; it made the rich richer - just "exactly" what they wanted.
Im from New Zealand, and recently we've recieved poll results showing decreased trust in media. Some experts then discussed this on our public radio station, one of them was from Finland where the media was much more trusted. Somebody raised the point that Finland had much less neoliberalism in it. This is rather obvious i know.
White, 73 and really appreciate the work NM does - thanks. Can’t wait to hear about “all the fucked-up shit” Ash hears in the green room…
Ash is so good on the BBC, keeps her cool so well. And nice to see how many older viewers Novara has.
Friendly discussion like this between friends is refreshingly educational .
I was already sceptical of the media from my teens (I mean, isn't it obvious?), but it was properly confirmed to me in the late '90s when I attended a Reclaim the Streets demonstration where the police hemmed the crowd in and squeezed us so much that we had to push back (there were women there with young children) - and then got home to find it reported on the local news as protestors rioting and police having to intervene.
Great discussion Aaron and Ash. I am the son of very hardworking Irish immigrants to the UK who both met in London, plus I am also older than both of you.
My father (who was a British Ulsterman by the way) had to endure in the late 50's No Irish, No Blacks, No dogs discrimination. Which was prominent in billboard and print advertising. Landlords would open the door when he wanted to find a place to live with words to the affect of " Oh I am sorry young man but I can't rent a room to you because if I did, all my other tenants would leave"
As his father, my grandfather, fought in the Battle of Britain, this was quite upsetting and confusing for him at the time.
But they endured and brought up six children who have done very well for themselves. Without a penny received from any benefit culture whatsoever.
As children from immigrant families yourselves, I appreciate and cannot disagree with what you both say. This is very refreshing and please keep up the great work.
I think the media reporting on the anti-poll tax campaign was a major factor in my dissolution with them. Add in studying sociology where we looked at how the media reported things like the miners strike and on youth cultures my disposition towards it was forever tainted. Incidents like Hillsborough just reinforce that perception. The lies around the second war against Iraq was gutting to me and the lies were blatant.
I lived in the same area as Rose Gentle whose son Gordon was killed by a roadside bomb in Basra. I saw what grief had done to that one woman and I swore I'd never vote labour again until Tony Blair is In Jail. I know that probably won't happen. I'm sure I'm not the only who turned away from labour following that monumentally bad decision. I also believe that MSM was aware of the veracity of the intelligence leading to the Iraq war, so I think they are complicit is feeding false information
We were lucky to have a prime Minister who didn't buy the lies that send too many young people to die for nothing, and yes you are right the ,msm must have know but still beat the war drums
Political parties are holding pens for live stock. We all end up in the slaughter house because both sides are butchers and the sheep dogs bark the herd around, barking dogs are the butchers friend.
You just want a reason to vote for the Conservative party, and are grasping at straws. Let's face it you just like to feel superior to the homeless man you step over whilst simping for your girlfriend and her orders the way your mum raised you.
Labour friendly parties always feel compelled to become liberals in order to get elected in the first place. How is the Labour Party going to improve, if people like yourself who want a better version remove themselves from the only process available?
Not only will Blair ever go to prison, he has become a millionaire since he left. It seems the devil looks after his own!
White working class HS male in 50’s - I’m all in. You guys rock.
64 and rarely miss Novara's shows. Fills a big gap in the market, indeed. Well done, guys!
I lost faith in journalism around 2015. I'm a Hungarian living in Kent and I used to follow both British and Hungarian media. When the Syrian refugee crisis hit Europe, it banged on Hungary's doors being a border country for Schengen. A video broke into the news in the UK with the dramatic headlines like "anti-migrant Hungary tears refugee families apart", and in the video you see a middle eastern woman and a baby being dragged away from a middle eastern man by force, while both of them fight hard to shake off the policemens' arms, all the while standing on the train tracks of a train station. Right before I made my mind up on how terrible my fellow Hungarians treat refugees, I stumbled upon the same video on a Hunagrian news site. It was about 1 minute longer. In it, the husband and the wife with the baby tied to her chest have a heated argument on the platform of the station, and as it elevates, the husban pushes the woman down onto the train tracks. Policemen around jump straight down to help her up, but the husband seeing this jumps down too, as he doesn't wish her wife being approached and touched by strange men. The struggle starts and the policemen consider it's best to remove the husband from the scene so they can help the woman off the tracks. At which point the cut video broadcasted by british media starts. It's absolutely bonkers. Hungary has a terrible reputation on the international stage, and I'm not saying it's all unjustified but there's a ton of subtle yet untrue information western people are told about my country and its people, and I honestly don't see who that benefits apart from the news agencies themselves hunting for clicks and views.
I can't say I have any strong opinions about Hungary, but I do agree with you that it's important to double check sources. Kind of like triangulation, you need at least 2 points of data to arrive at the full picture.
The strange death of David Kelly
They removed his body from his grave and hide it.
Speaking truth to power is a brave act. You both lead the way.
I am 77 what brilliant news reporting, well done ❤❤
You guys give me hope. Thank you for honest and brave journalism.
59 year old North East Scot not a teen an occasional student on and off I am done with the EBC and so-called non biased or liberal media. I found you folks during lockdown, and yup, you hit the spot
Love Novara Media as along with other independent media you are telling the truth rather than the bull we get from the mainstream.
Just a small but significant point retirement is now 66 not 65 and for 50s 60’s women it’s been a big struggle when our pension age changed from 60 to 65 and then 66 without notice
67 for those of us born in the early 60s
Not when Aaron is 66 it won't.
Enough with the ageism, NovaMedia. "Ooo I met an old dear, and she was left of centre. Bless." STOP IT. Being over 60 is not a pass to the local Conservative club nor and indication of mental (or moral) decline.
I get that - I’m in my 50’s and have become *more* liberal/ LW as I’ve grown older!
I'd like to add my voice in support. Novara's such a breath of fresh air in the UK media landscape. I've been watching you guys for a while and have gradually stopped watching any TV news programmes at all. I watch a lot of Novara on yt and haven't contributed for a while. Will send you some money soon. All the best.
Im a 63 yr old norn irish white prod... Novara is a beatifull orchard, a lush, green, shady grove, surrounded by a hostile barren desert. Thanks for the journalism!
Cancelled my Labour Party membership and upped my donation to Novara. Big things to come from you guys 💪✊
Whoa there @AaronBastani and @AyoCaesar , slow down there. I’m an American. The title of worst media belongs to us. You’re a close second but you’ve still got a ways to go catch up to us.
Worse in Europe. We’ve got that.
Brilliant podcast ,at 71 I feel at home
These downstreams are wonderful. So much to think about - Ash is so sharp. thanks.
I don't 100% agree with all you say but it's incredibly interesting to listen too, particularly your critique of the UK media. Great discussion! This is new media
The Guardian aims to keep the left-hand side of the overton window afixed, whilst the Daily Mail aims to move the right-hand side of it further rightward.
You're a sweetheart Aaron Bastani. A good guy. My mother thought so and so do I.
I have been watching you guys grow since well before lockdown. I watch all you produce. I don’t agree with everything you say, but then I am not looking for a mirror. What I am looking for are ideas and intelligence, and you deliver it in buckets. As you build momentum will you consider championing causes that will make people’s lives better. You have the power. Btw I am a 72 yr old Corbynista.
don't hate the media, become the media - Jello Biafra
I am a 75 Yr old white ciswoman who is very, very worried about the direction this country is going in and I listen to Novara Media because of your intelligent, well informed and in depth reporting thank you.
You are a woman not “cis”!
Your scrutiny is amazing, you're both coming from a fabulous angle on matters its so refreshing to listen to your coverage. Many Thanks and do continue.
With you on this. I scan the headlines but never buy a newspaper (I buy Private Eye). I scan the BBC headlines online but usually cannot bear to read the content. I rely on people like you, Owen, A Different Bias, DoubleDown, Brian Taylor cohen and similar to tell me the truest and MOST DEPRESSING news. Private eye = same. Truth but so depressing. that's a bit of an argument I have with myself, do I really want to know. So far, yes.
I am with you there mate. Sometimes it is so unrelentingly depressing but I still need to know . People around me have switched off years ago. There is no trust for those who lead us at all now
@Helen. Similar. Private Eye doesn't always get it right - but they admit to when they get it wrong. They're a small journal so they can't afford to get it wrong that often - the rich, the powerful and the corrupt have been trying to sue them out of existence since they first published. The fact they're still extant, in my opinion, is testimony to the reliability of their content.
Thank you Novara Media for confirming what I suspected had been going on for quite sometime in the mainstream media.
Pleased to hear an acknowledgement that not all post 60s are the same! I’m 73 and subscribed to Novara in your early years. Rather than forays to M&S I am a pensioner activist for improvements locally, supporting recent strikes and climate action. Keep doing what you are doing! I’m having trouble remaining in the Labour Party so need your alternative views. Irene
When in 2017 our State Broadcaster's Board became all but one Government appointed who could have guessed that within 5 years the Chairman would be the PM Sunak's old Boss at Goldman Sachs...
I want to read that book Ash! Great chat, great knowledge and integrity. Thanks for all your hard work. 🙏
Always enjoy Ash on politics live always comes across as the only sane decent human being on the panel, dignity and decorum, sadly lacking in the political/media culture on terrestrial/satelite tv
I live in Scotland and I sent my Mum in Ireland a NM clip. A few days later she shared a NM video with me. SUCCESS! Her CZcams recommendations were getting very "American far right pipeline"-y there for a minute. 😅 Novara Media, to the rescue!
I’ll see your British media and raise you one US Corporate Media.
Same person Murdoch
It's one and the same. Same owners. Trump support for Boris was not just because they have the same hair.
I was just about to fold, but thinking about it, it seems the differences are mainly cosmetic.
@@damianmoran1512 Yeah, some of it not all of it.
All i’ll say is watch a day’s worth of MSNBC, FOX, CNN, OANN, et al. It’s ridiculously partisan and pro-corporate, *never* critical of their corporate sponsors *or* the particular side of the corporate political establishment they are supporting. It’s hard to watch.
Great show, thanks. This is why i follow Aljazeera or Even China Global network for global / business news.
With you on Al Jazeera. It ought to be obvious that the farther you can get from vested interests, about any particular topic, the more objective the reporting is likely to be .
Wow! what an interesting debate about what is really going on from our multi cutlural friends who share our British sense of honesty and decency! Well done! Please can we have more!
It’s about who owns the media
thank you Novara , a sane voice in an insane country
"Harold Shipman opining on a good beside manner" classic
journalist --> spin doctor is the analogous process of doctor --> Harold Shipman
Had Irak actually possessed WMD's, no one would've attacked them that way. Plain and simple.
Spot-on. Keep going. We need many more people, like you. Excellent debate as always.
The power of discrimination. Essential skill. Keep going!
Amazing convo, love the precision and depth of analysis here. My two favorite people ❤
When the Iraq war happened I was STILL elated from the ‘97 victory. That completely clouded my judgement.
The Thatcher years left so many scars - not least that when Labour finally came to power, some people like me having grown up feeling the brunt of her devastating policies, misguidedly felt that Blair could do no wrong…
Sadly the cycle seems to be set to repeat. Labour are only looking at an election victory because they have a Tory light leadership that is acceptable to the media and the conservatives have runout of steam after trashing the economy again.
Brilliant conversation much needed.
To be honest a machete wielding Ash is a hard image not to like!
I really appreciate your factual and amazing show 😊 thank you Novara Media 👌👍
Last time I loved an interview on the BBC was when a innocent female interviewer was given the job of interviewing Jeffrey Sacks at the beginning of the Russian SMO my god did he freak out the poor girl
Excellent (from the US). Congrats on the network; I’m hooked
Hi from Canada. Love the debate and NM content in general. This video brought me back to halcyon days of 1978, with a more subdued version of Valerie Perrine''s Superman wardrobe.
Me and my partner are in our 60's there are a lot of people my age watching you
Keep going guys. Massive love for what you’re doing ❤
64 Here and could see the Media going down this slippery slope 20 years ago...Glad I found Navara Media and a few others otherwise we would be in Trouble !
Who else is on your playlist Peter?
Great comments guys, made me cry tbh, when truth, is told
u.k. finest government pundits. u.k. needs smart people like you 🎉🎉 ash is beautiful and beautiful
I love what you guys do in the field of honest-hard working- gutsy journalism😊👍 Believe me in the years to come NM will be more powerful and relevant.
Never read a line from printed English media. Now i will stop with tv broadcast as well.
37:00 Trouble with Rees-Mogg is more than any of the other figures you mention, sometimes he comes across as incredibly condescending. Maybe its something of an overblown act, and isn't so bad in real life? At least with Portillo you could talk about trains.
It's so uplifting to read the age of everyone and the reasons for watching. Everyone are norm-stormers and amazing for it.
I live in Spain and I frankly disagree. In fact I suspect the same happens on almost every western liberal capitalist regime
Regarding the push for Iraq, what was weird to me is that my internet friends in France, in the Netherlands, in Sweden, in South Africa all bought the Rumsfeld lies about Iraq having these weapons of mass destruction etc. It was so strange to me because I live in the US. The propoganda was largely meant for me, not them. It was such a strange feeling for them to buy the nonsense while I could point out the flaws and they instead went with the claims from US department of defense personnel.
Proud northern boy (Cumbrian specifically) I love Novara, I listen every night at work and I am encouraging all of my family members to do the same
Brilliant content great show 👍🏻
Totally agree with Arron .. I find that out when I was a member of Labour Party.
Love the conversations amongst members of the team on specific topics to really have space to flesh them out.
I was against the Iraq war at the time and the amount of flack I got from some people, apparently wanting peace makes you opinionated. The definition of war is legalised murder, so an illegal war is straight up murder surely.
I really respect, appreciate and am amazed at you're bravery. Journalists are scared of speaking the truth and I don't blame them but we must understand that our silence is what imprisons us ! Our leaders must be held to account, otherwise we the people lose our basic human rights. The rich take over and the government as well as the media collaborate to benefit only themselves.
People are worried about where England is going? England is going nowhere. Brex¹it was the beginning of the end of England. Turn off the
P lights and move to Germany
If you want to hear about people from unexpected backgrounds who follow NM; I study at St Andrews and try to listen to every Novara Live (though proudly from a state school background in Cornwall 😅)
Just discovered novaro Media, and I'm totally hooked .43 year old..and this channel represents the people
My ideals have always been on the left but as someone in his early 20s with a lot of stuff going on (I'd moved away from home, had my first proper job and was trying to build a social circle: not knowing I was autistic), I was conned into thinking the war on terror was justified. I feel stupid now but I was far from alone.
Aaron is absolutely spot on about Ash.
Roger Ailes 1st Political job of Real influence and Power was the Head Media and Communication Advisors of Richard Nixon's 1968 Presidential Campaign...
As much as I love both of you for the work you do, you haven't done the key thing you should do with a story as a journalist from a audiences point of view which is START FROM THE START. If we talk about when media industry first set up in Britain through an authority such as BBC we will see it was never initially made to share truth it was use to share decisions made and what was allowed to be shared. The mainstream media companies in the UK have never told the full truth and have rarely had reporters that do report the full truth. It's the same as the police, they are designed to protect the people they are designed to suppress those who don't follow the rules set by those in charge, doesn't matter what the rules are. This is all a structured design by government of old.