Ultimate Semi Truck vs Pickup tow vehicle showdown!
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
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I want to make a few minor points for the OTR guys who are commenting on my video.
First, this video is SPECIFICALLY for folks thinking of hauling (without a CDL or the training associated) a Fifth Wheel (Weighing between 12,000-20,000lbs).
Second, if you drive a OTR Class 8 Semi Tractor (either Owner Operator or Corporately) you are probably hauling loads weighing upwards of 44,000lbs, which will positions a significantly higher amount of weight over the drive axles of the tractor (generally between 15-30k lbs).
Third, because of this weight, plus the addition of trailer and air brakes across the entire rig, a Class 8 trucks Air Brakes give incredible stopping power. A Fifth Wheel RV will not offer the benefit of the air brake compatibility NOR the weight needed over the pin on the truck. Fifth Wheels generally only transfer about 15-20% of the trailer weight to the pin (only about 2,000-4,000lbs max). Physics alone would tell you that a 16-20,000lbs Semi Tractor with minimal weight over the drive axles would limit the full ability for a Semi Tractor to stop quickly. A F450, RAM 3500, and GM 3500 Dually has the advantage of a significantly lower curb weight, plus full anti lock brakes as well as the ability to take full advantage of the truck and trailer brakes.
Forth, Semi Tractors DO have a great turning radius for the size they are. Most don't realize one of the huge selling points for an F450 is the Wide Track front suspension, which gives it a huge turning radius improvement over the F350, Ram, and GM Trucks.
Fifth, the Fuel economy of a typical OTR Tractor is between 5-7mpgs while towing and between 7-10mpgs empty. It's almost humorous to hear anyone claim their fully loaded Peterbilt gets 12-17mpgs towing.
Sixth, I need to clarify my points about getting 19.5"+ tires serviced at Discount Tire. Discount Tire will NOT service ANY Commercial tires 19.5" or greater. 20" Tires are not commercial tires. I generally am referring to 19.5", 22.5", 24.5" Tires when stating Commercial Tires.
Finally, OTR Class 8 Tractors DO cost significantly more to repair and often require a much longer stay at a mechanic (in most cities).
The point of the video comes down to folks understanding the differences.
Big Truck Big RV wow I've never seen that big of ford trucks that you showed when you talked about the Pepsi trucks wonder what size it would be
That was an F650 or F750
Big Truck Big RV Some people change class 8 trucks to single axel. Two axel is way more than you need for an RV. A good place to look in that case is a company that pulls doubles. You only need a single axel for those. Single axels are 20,000 over the drives max instead of 34,000. I watched a video of a comparison between the big 3's hd's. The highest fuel mileage was 6.5 hauling 22,000. That's not any better and in fact it's worse than a big truck. Oil changes are about $250-$300 but they're good for about 30,000 mile depending on the oil and still 15,000 on the low side. True, repairs are more expensive. It's all still a lot to think about but I still say look at everything and you left out a lot. Pickups do have the advantage of being able to be 4X4.
Big Truck Big RV op
Big Truck Big RV I work on semis for a living, AND own a duramax pickup. So I have fairly good insight into both scenarios. Some of this information seems off. Yes parts and tires are more expensive, but they generally last way longer than stuff for a light duty ever would. IH recommends oil change, 8 gallons worth in a dt, every 15,000 miles. The Allison tc10 says change fluid every 500,000 miles. As far as braking goes, there's no way on earth your f450 is going to stop as fast as a tractor with air brakes. Especially a tandem axle. Even with a camper behind it, you mash the brake pedal and that sucker is stopping. Other than this video being a little off in my opinion, I really like your videos. Hoping to have my duramax featured on your new viewers rides segment!
First off I am a farmer. I tow with a classic 1998 IH 4700 low pro crew cab. We were going have to raise the weight ratings on all of our pickups to tow our flat beds and livestock trailers. Licensing on the IH was cheaper. We are getting better fuel economy with the larger truck. We also pull a 37 ft fifth wheel with it. I love having the stopping power of the larger truck. It is just a duely on steroids. You just have to park it out a way from the store and walk. After using this truck we will never go back to smaller trucks
As the capability of heavy duty pickups keeps growing, they have encroached of the capabilities and capacities of medium duty trucks. BUT. They are not the same. While there may be some crossover in capacities and function, and can be used interchangeably is some applications, they are built and configured for different uses and environments. There was a period of time a few years ago where they were putting pickup boxes on medium duty trucks and targeting them at the RV market, but while they can tow the big RVs just fine, many owners moved back to pickups because the pickups were a more satisfactory choice. Medium duty trucks so far just occupy a very nitch market for towable RV use. I expect that crossover line will blur more over time as capabilities and markets merge closer with product offerings. I have notice the penetration in the motor home market is expanding quite a bit as they get heavier. What continues to amaze me is the continued growth in the size and weights of towable RV units. I suspect at some point regulatory bodies are going to step in and enforce or add restrictions to these bigger units to insure they continue play safe and nice with the rest of the motoring public. The bigger units now can cause a number of issues as far as operating in a number of areas their owners expect to take them but in reality are not prepared or equipped to do so. Weight and size do matter. Remember, there is a reason endorsements are required for operating commercial vehicles over 26,000 lbs. now you can go get off the shelf pickups with gross combined weights of over 32,000 lbs. No mater how you categorize it, when you get over 26,000 lbs, your very heavy. Technology just make it seem like it's no big deal. But it is.
Ya, but if you get a class 7-8 semi, your friends won't seem to bug you about loaning it out to them on the weekends. .
Just tell them you need a class "A" CDL to drive it.... even though you don't for RV use... but they won't know that. ..
Gregory A. Parsons *plotted, wicked laughter*
Don’t need a CDL but you do have to get the air brake endorsement in many states
2 solutions: tell them no. Or get rid of your friends. Who need 'em, right?
@Rich Dudley depends on the state
@Rich Dudley common misconception, but still inaccurate.
As a long haul trucker for 46 yr's all this advise is nonsense in most respects but very good for the average road warrior. I have a Freightliner that is retired from commercial use and there's no way I would switch out to any pick up truck. My insurance is actually identical to my Silverado pick up, as far as service work there really isn't much difference at all to these new $80,000 plus pick ups and as far as tires, they may very well be a couple hundred more apiece but they are designed to withstand up to 20,000 lb's of axle weight in commercial use for upwards of 100,000 miles let alone in RV use, I defy you to get that out of your average pick up tire. There have been some good points made here but none of them would apply to me as an experienced lifelong commercial trucker. I have a lot more use for the $60,000 dollars saved by my choice of tow rig.
Truth!
Thanks for making sence
Well, most people, at least that I know of, who get a semi truck are RV full timers and their 5th wheels are typically over 43’ and 25,000 lbs gross weight and the pin weight is nearly 7,000 lbs. So they chose a semi because a F-450 is a bit too close to its limit. Plus a lot of them used to own F-450 and they said their Semi is a lot more stable than 1 ton truck to tow their 5th wheels under any conditions.
Some are to drive to grocery stores with their semi, and others are carrying a Smart car on the back of their semi to drive it around a camp site.
I currently have a 2015 F350 dually and if the truck ever lets me down, i will go medium duty. Some of the main reasons:
Pop the hood on your truck. Then pop the hood on a medium duty. I can barely change the air filter on my truck without needing to lift the cab off... with a medium duty, you have access all around the engine.
Cooling. I live in AZ and tow at high altitude to go camping... I've seen my temp gauge swing past halfway and that is with a small camper behind me. the radiator open area on an MDT is muuuch bigger.
Air ride around town unloaded. You and I both know how bouncy these trucks can get empty... And speaking of air... horns. 'nuff said. :D
It is possible to get a really good deal on a medium duty truck with a blown engine. Starting out with a power train that you know, and one that has a warranty, gives you a lot of confidence. You can get good used tires for these trucks very affordably. Many medium duty trucks have Allison transmissions that are very reliable. I'd say that you would not want an industrial duty truck unless you can do a lot of the work yourself. Customizing the paint and interior give you pride of ownership. Being able to pull grades without worry is very valuable. They aren't for everyone, to be sure. But for the right guy/family, they can't be beat.
Not a current owner of either, but I once drove a medium duty single axle semi towing a gooseneck toy hauler from coast to coast. Did it again a year later towing the same trailer but this time using a brand new 1 ton diesel dually (after break-in period). As far as I can recall, MPG on dually was only slightly better, but stability, braking power, and overall comfort were noticeably lesser than the semi. If I were to do it again, I would, without any hesitation, use a semi. Make no mistake, a dually will do just fine towing a big toy hauler like mine. But once you go semi, you'll never go back.
I've been a long distance truck driver for almost 30 years. I've never heard of any company that'll run their trucks up to 1 million miles. Most will sell them just before the engine warranty runs out at 500k. That's for a Freightliner with a Detroit engine. An International with either a Cummins or a Maxforce, often much sooner. Both internationals I drove, were sold before 400k. Also, as a truck driver, I've ofter dropped my trailer and bobtailed to a restaurant or grocery store. Sometimes with a much longer tractor than I've ever seen with a camper.
Just a point of information. Most of the class 8 trucks now come with fully automated transmissions. For example, Volvo has the IShift as standard equipment (although you can order a manual). All of the manufacturers offer automated trans.
Jack Mayer on the flipside, as much as i enjoy I-Shift, the class 5 and above give you the advantage of far more powertrain combinations than a pickup would. 6.7 ISB or Hemi in the Ram. PowerSeizure in the Ford, DuraMax in chevy. Automatics in them all (save the six speed in the Ram). The Freightliner M2 (class 5-6) gives you Cummins 6.7, 9, Detroit 5, 7 or 13, Eaton automatic or standard, 5 speed through 13 speed. Up to class 8 trucks, can get Detroit, Cummins, Paccar, Cat, or International engines, 6.7 litres up to 16. transmissions all the way up to 18 speed. The options are endless on the larger trucks, as opposed to the take-it-or-leave-it mentality of pickups. Not to mention the gift from the gods that is the jake brake. Good god i love the jakes, the pickups burn through the brakes, the rigs don't even notice the hills.
Auto Transmissions are terrible Manual is much better.
Thank you for saying Automated and not automatic.
@@Dirt_Relocation_Specialist Depends on the situation. Long haul highway sure ill take a 13 speed all day. That's what I have in my truck. But when I'm driving through LA or Houston. I sure do love them automated trans.
@Jim C I would buy a Allison auto which is a torque converter auto if I did that kinda work. I don't like automated manuals. The Allison transmissions are way more durable, they behave better, they have less problems.
You obviously don't spend much time in the mountains. Your F450 doesn't come close to the control you have coming down long step grades in a class 6, 7, or 8.
LMAO . looks like you have never been holding back a 25k 44' 5th wheel in the mountains. It doesn't matter if you can pull it down the road or up a hill you missed the whole point. I have towed large RV's for over thirty years and full time for the last 10. My best day RV towing was selling my F450 and getting my 359 pete. Gone our the days of white knuckling and sweating the pull .... Now we just sit back and cruise up or down ANY mountains or conditions in America. My class 8 Pete is registered in SD as a motorhome and it doesn't require a CDL. I am a California native based out of San Diego Ca. we have never been hassled by law enforcement for length, weight, registration or licence in the last 10 years. PS we never stop at scales either and my pete costed 10k less then my 450.
That's great! Your Fifth wheel (assuming it's a DRV 44') would definitely be better towed by a Class 8 rig! 25k lbs is no joke when towing. I like the flexibility of using a pickup as a drive around vehicle when parked, but so long as you are happy with your rig and feel safe, that's what matters. Camp on!
I just bought my first Pete that I want to get it set up for hauling my big travel trailer and my jeep on top because I'm tired of pickup up trucks that slow down going uphill and scary going downhill when comes to slow down so I'm excited to get my new toy hauler ready for next travel 👍👌🙏
Actually the truck makers are all making some pretty competitive Class 6 or 7 vehicles. I agree a class 8 vehicle wouldn't be an effective choice. Own what you want though. If you don't want tires that get 140-150K on Steers, and 300K on drives get a pickup. If you want to be in a vehicle that will most likely leave you injured or dead in an accident pulling a fifth wheel, get a pickup. Hard to compare a 10-15 year old vehicle to a new vehicle and find them competitive. But reality is the Class 6-7 new trucks have similar price tags to the pickups. Commercial trucks are years ahead in experience with all the electronic crash avoidance systems, and when your catalyst/dozer gives you problems the local Peterbilt/Freightliner dealershiip is so far ahead of Ford/GM/Dodge on getting them diagnosed and a parts distribution network to get them back on the road. Automated manual transmissions only carry warranty for 500K miles. Air ride suspensioin, on an air ride cab, sitting in an air ride seat - the new class 6-7 trucks are not your grandpa's old semi that got 4 mpg. Oh well, in a hundred thousand miles, the pickup will be wore out. Meanwhile the commercial truck will still hold considerable value, and have a useful life 5-10X longer.
I own a ram 5500 with 19.5's and a freightliner 33000 gvw flat bed tow truck with 22.5 low pro tires... the 19.5's are by far more costly than 22.5 rubber. and I will say this, I would rather have my medium duty Freighliner anyday of the week.
Being a level 4 Diesel service technician with a valid class A CDL I thought I would comment on this video. As far as I know commercial vehicle registration starts at 26,001# as for passing by weigh stations I'm not sure that would work, it would probably require "NOT FOR HIRE" decals; However you would want to check with the DMV or DOT.
Class 8 trucks are available with auto shift both with and without a clutch pedal, these are manual 10 speed transmissions ( in most cases ) that are shifter electronically, while this does come with a premium you simply have a touch pad with "R" "N" "D" it performs self diagnostics; However in most cases if a fault is active the transmission usually won't go in any gear and the unit must be towed in for service. On a good note the clutches are self adjusting and usually get the maximum service life. They are also over 1,000 just for the part to replace and usually 10 hours labor @ 130.00 + per hour, so a new clutch installed with the flywheel machined will run about 2,500.00 or so.
As for insurance you would probably be better off if you got the CDL, some states may require it regardless due to registration G.V.W.R. And in spite of the fact that the 5th wheel has electric brakes would probably still require the class "A" combination vehicle license. Again this is something you would want to check your state requirements on.
While you may already be accustom to parking in BFE and going to truck stops for fuel, with a class 8 truck your not going to pull into Wendy's or any other fast food parking lot for that matter.
In closing you should know that class 8 trucks don't do well sitting, they are built to stay on the road. So much like class A motor homes that sit 8 to 10 months out of the year, staying parked will create issues on it's own. I used to work for a Ford dealer that worked on class A motor homes, we found the people that lived in the motor homes and traveled either monthly or bi-monthly had far less problems with their coaches than people who had them sit more that 3 or 4 months at a time.
In the event you do get a medium or heavy truck, do yourself a favor and either stay away from International or make sure it has a Cummins engine if you do buy a International.
The Cummins engines have far less issues than the Navistar ( International ) engines.
This I know, because I work for a International dealership.
mrgearheadfromhell: outstanding information sir. Thanks for chiming in.
mrgearheadfromhell great comments just want to point out that my 245" wb 2017 Kenny T660 Fitzgerald Glider goes anywhere a dually pickup can when not height restricted. I park at WalMart, CVS, Kroger's went to Taco Bell last night. That F450 8' box crew cab and l are about the same length l would guess. Yet l have a built in fridge, two bunks (one is a sofa) and a preemissions Detroit with no EGR or DPF.
A ton of good information in here. Always enjoyable and educational to watch your videos. I'd like to add a note to your comment about oil on medium duty and up trucks. Yes, semis hold upwards of 8 gallons of oil and that gets expensive really quick. but it isn't like a car where you change it every 3,000-5,000 miles. I work at a business where we have full class 8 Kenworths and we use oil from the Southwestern Petroleum Company (Swepco) we buy it by the drum in bulk (not that the average Joe would buy it in bulk). It's 40 weight oil specifically for semis. The oil is made to last up to around 25,000 miles. Which is 5 times that of a heavy duty pickup truck. So it's more expensive, but it's much less often. I thought that would be a valid point to add some perspective. Awesome videos! I look forward to watching all of them!
After i saw this video i wound up with a dirt cheap 2015 Peterbilt 579, got it from Ritchie Brothers for $2,100, yes thats 21 hundred dollars, it was emissions disabled, i did my own repairs, replaced egr cooler and cleaned out the pdf. Puting new tires on it curently, is has the 500hp mx13, 18 speed, all disc brakes. Mid roof sleeper, microwave, fridge.
I'm sorry buddy but a dually will never outdo a big rig
For 5th wheels they could because someone who doesn't have a cdl can drive that and it will handle the same.
@@camdenneilan9349 A person without a CDL can never outdo someone with a CDL...
I’ll take a pre emissions class 8 any day over a 80k pickup. I can change the tires and do all the service myself!
A pickup will last 2 years then that $80k you spent is gone. If your doing hotshot or whatever. Makes no sense.
if your hauling a fifth wheel quite a bit of the time Its not that hard to add weight to the back end of a big rig to weigh it down, especially if you give it room to haul a toy and add storage boxes, you can always order a fifth wheel with air brakes or have one fitted with them, also, there's been a big push for autos in OTR semi's in recent years to make them easier to get people to driving them, and they are designed for driver comfort a lot more heavily then a pickup that's been more n more designed around family soo its easier to drive for longer periods....
to me, if you want something that'll last and you've put your share n more on trucks haulin fifth wheels then its something to seriously look into as they are built to stand the test of time a lot better then pickups are... not just until 200k miles have passed soo everything can wear out so even if its a diesel, the diesel engine is the only thing that ISN'T wearing out
just sounds like this was how you talked yourself out of buying one cause it made you nervous the idea of having something soo big n unfamiliar
Well, Im gunna put this out here. Your pick up trucks are meant for towing trailers under 20,000lbs safely reguardless to what anyone says. Yes, technology has changed quite a bit over the years but, it doesn't mean that using your 450/550 and the like will get any safer unless you take your 1 ton pick up, install heavy duty axles, all terrain semi tires and air brakes to all wheels, oh and don't forget to have the shop take your truck apart and have them reinforce your frame rails with 1/4 inch steel. My point is, I work for my city and most of the guys in there have their cdl's from trucking before driving tractor trailers and I have asked them and they all have said to get a medium duty truck to haul your large 5th wheel safely. And looking into this, you medium duty truck can be insured no different than your pick up truck. I mean, towing a heavy duty 5th wheel with your pick up is like towing a 6'x12' steel open air cargo trailer with my Jeep Grand Cherokee laredo. Yes, you are gunna over heat your brakes before you over heat your engine, but it took me hell of a lot longer to stop, so I had to switch to my pick up which I should've done so first but other events happened. And yes, a used medium duty rig is cheaper than a brand new or sometimes a used pick up. The maintance isn't gunna be really that different than that of your pick up and you can also drive your medium duty truck everyday if you want. Out of respect, you really need to look into your facts first.
The tires of a class 8 truck/semi-tractor have a harder compound rubber which lengthens the stopping distance and if the truck is equipped with air brakes, there is air brake lag time after applying the brakes which adds about .5 seconds to the stopping distance.
Good point on the maintenance and the cost of the maintenance.
One of the last points you brought up is a medical condition and having a driver able to drive the vehicle. One thing many people do not realize, including those drivers of the diesel pushers is that you may need a "non-CDL class A or B driver's license". Here are two NON-CDL examples:
CLASS A (minimum age 18): Required to operate any combination of vehicles with a gross weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more, where the vehicle(s) being towed is/are in excess of 10,000 pounds. Example: Recreational Vehicle, when the towing vehicle is rated at 11,000 pounds and the vehicle towed is rated at 15,500 pounds (total combination weight of 26,500 pounds).
CLASS B (minimum age 18): Required to operate any single vehicle rated in excess of 26,000 pounds. Example: Motor homes rated at 26,001 pounds or more.
That may be an eye opener for many...
have you actually driven a semi with full air brakes? no way your f450 can stop faster/shorter distance when towing same trailer of any nature but would love to see a video proving me wrong lol great vids tho really enjoy them
I worry a lot more about hitting the air brake too hard than I do about stopping in time. My dream set-up is to have air brakes on my fifth wheel, or at least air over hydr disc.
Wouldn't you just install a break controller for electric breaks?
Max Jamieson Air applies pressure just like electric or hydraulic systems , the actual stopping power is provided by the brake pads/drums /discs , the size of the rubber footprint and the road surface .
A Conneely you left one thing out. The size of the breaks. Trucks have huge breaks compared it pickups so they will stop shorter under loaded conditions. Not to mention, they'll last longer.
knightwing4 The size of the brakes is irrelevant because if you lock the brakes then the stopping distance is determined by the tires and road surface . Stopping the wheels from turning is not the same as stopping the vehicle. Look up what happens in a jackknife
Very good points. I do have some trouble believing that your truck could stop in a shorter distance with a high load than a Semi tractor though.
Gray Man: at 14,000lbs it should. maybe a test is in order :)
Sounds like an interesting video! Power to ya if you do it.
Yup, you will be seen as a rolling ATM by anybody you come across. If you do get one have "Not for hire" posted on all sides of the truck. Oil will be about 10 gals. These trucks do generate their own air.
Greg up in Canada makes some awesome RV haulers from Volvo's which he claims can get upwards of 10 MPG with an axle re-gearing. Also, they are fitted with a rather nice electric braking system.
Great vid and thoughts. A couple plusses for a semi rig is 1. Range - many fewers stops for fuel. 2. Ride comfort - big rigs seats are air cushened. I need to learn more concerning maintenance costs associated with owning a big rig before I decide, but the price of purchasing a new F-350/450 or equivilant is pushing me toward buying a used big rig. I can't believe a pick-up truck costs 70 grand. Again, thanks for the vid.
I disagree with when you say a semi truck will take a further distance to stop than a pickup truck. I drive semi truck for a living and often switch between the semi truck and ford f-350 and dodge 2500 pickup trucks to tow the exact same trailers (electric brakes) and the pickup trucks will almost take twice as long to stop compared to the semi trucks, and typically I only use the semi trucks for the heavy loads too. The air brakes definitely do not even compare to the hydraulic brakes on a pickup truck
ProjectMachines it's like stopping a bobtail, no weight over the drives for traction
@Project Machines I was thinking the same thing. my little Mack will just about stop on a dime and leave $0.09 change.
Being in the trucking business as an owner operator for to many years after retiring and selling my Class 8 truck and buying a pickup truck to pull my 10,500 lb fifth wheel I wish many times i would have kept my Kenworth pulling a high profile fifth wheel into a 40 mph headwind almost to much for a pickup not even factoring in the safety issues. Anyone with a notion that a pickup is a superior platform for towing a large fifth wheel might be one that should be more experienced in towing with the various platforms of their testing under conditions thru four seasons and all terrains. Many of the pros and cons discussed were not quite correct and seemed to be spoke without very little or no research if you fell you must elate on this subject bring a more complete evaluation to the stats on both formats.
Idk a lot of these point include costs but if your spending 100k on ur pick up or 150 on a medium duty plus another 200 on a 5th wheel plus whatever toys in your toy hauler I don’t think your gonna worry about a few thousand to maintain it. You’ll probably buy two 100k pickups in the time of owning a medium duty.
I am with most on here. You usually give some pretty reasonable information and then a little bit of your opinion. But you should stay with what you know and it seems you know very little about med. duty and up trucks. This video was the last straw for me. Not more than a few months ago you BOASTED about your new F350 and how great it was compared to your outgoing F450 and then flipped back to how great your new F450 is to the F350 just 2 months later.You seem to try and make a case that fits your opinion. You should do a real test and take that new F450 you have with a 20k or greater 5th wheel attached to it and do a few mountain passes. Then jump into a med duty and do the same. Let 20,000lbs push you down a mountain in the F450 and then in a med duty with air and you will never go back..
The brakes on that semi truck are designed to stop a lot more loaded weight than just the truck unit itself. Your stopping argument for the semi is quite invalid. The brakes on a semi tractor would easily be able to stop both the truck and camping trailer without even working hard at it.
diesel mutt88: I realize that it wouldn't be a challenge, they still take longer to stop simply because of their sheer weight.
But there again if you try too stop something with atleast twice the stopping power and and half the weight of the max gross weight these trucks can pull that truck would stop faster all day plus you have a jake brake not an engine brake jake brake is a lot stronger and your not smoking your brakes on really steep downhills plus with climbing hills you have atleast twice the tourque and then on top of that the single axle tractors turn just as good as a 350 if not better judt speaking from being around big rigs for a decent amount of my life enuff said
2 points yes class 8 truck come fully automatic no clutch at all. they range from 9 sppeds rare 12 13 and 18 are very common place now in over the road trucks. as for stopping 2016 are required to have disc brakes.. oh and for options the touch screen nave in my Pete will smoke any car or light duty truck. it program for low clearances and weight restrictions on certain routes to attempt to keep truck drivers from tearing up roads or bridges.
+Michael o: thanks for the feedback. I'm generally referring to class 8 trucks that would be competitively priced against class 3. it's interesting that you like the Garmin based touchscreen in your Peterbilt, because I actually did some of the tech integration with it and it's a very old tech based system. Nothing near newer class 3 trucks in term of advancements. Yes, the maps and routes are designed around OTR trucks (for common sense reasons), but the rest of the tech is very antiquated.
The new pickups available today are far more capable than pickups of the past. I just don't like how they drive and the lack of visibility. Also don't like the engine being partially under the dash/windshield. Another good part of medium duty or heavy duty trucks that you didn't mention is most have a flat floor.
Very good point regarding the potential insurance differences. Some companies will look at anything beyond the light duty range as "commercial" and rates will reflect such which might be a bitter pill to swallow if someone is just hauling for their own use instead of for employment/hire.
Shop around. Read the threads on Escapees or the Facebook HDT threads. It depends on the insurance company. A class 8 truck with a sleeper can be registered as a motorhome and some insurance companies get it and some don't.
Some of the class 8 information is inaccurate. I'm an OTR driver for 6 years. Automatics are available but you'll have to get a restriction stamped on your license. As far as service intervals and costs. They are expensive but service intervals for a class 8 depending on your engine is about 20,000 miles between. That is only on the account that although your pickup may take 6-8 quarts. A class 8 takes about 6 gallons again depending on your engine. Manual transmissions in class 8 also are non-synchronous so you can't shift into any gear at any rpm like a car or pickup. They have a certain rpm band and road speed that each gear change that's ideal and double clutching is a must if you want the transmission to last the life of the engine. You can stop a class 8 nearly as well as a regular vehicle but it requires additional input of the driver to shift down while braking. One other thing about class 8, there's an advantage to scan the road due to being higher than most vehicles however being a large vehicle, you have big blind spots so please scan your convex mirrors more often than relying on the flat plane mirrors. That is the most common mistake I see often.
David Bui: outstanding feedback brother. Thanks. Well written and practical.... This Gentleman, is how people should respond. cheers
That Discount Tire policy of not touching wheels larger than 19.5" is not company wide, it may be specific to your location. Having worked at Discount Tire, we often serviced wheels over that limit with tires as large as 37" (Jeeps and lifted trucks).
Most carriers buy new trucks in between 500,000-750,000 miles. DONT BUY A VOLVO!!! Volvo trucks tend to be a little more expensive for parts and to buy. The International 9400I eagle with a Cummins and a Eaten transmission is recommended. The 9400I is a solid workhorse. Make sure it has been maintained properly and not abused!
Chris Keller what about an old Western Star with a Caterpillar and an Eaton or an International S1600 or S1800 with a DT 466 turbo charged and an Allison Automatic transmission?
There was a lot of opinion based pros and cons in this video. Take the tire price for instance. Yes semi tires are more exspensive. However, they last a LOT longer. The cost pretty much evens out. Yes an oil change is more expensive, again, not as frequent as in a pickup. As far as comfort items, this was all opinion based. I would argue that your pickup doesn't have a fridge, microwave, bunk bed, etc.. like a semi could. Also just like in any vehicle, you can change out the radio and other components to have a better navigation system and whatnot. Don't forget about the much smother ride in a semi, never having to go uphill @ 35mph, on a long drive being able to pull over and take a nap without having to set up your RV, and you will look bada$$ on the road lol.
Love your videos but just smh.😣 Might want to stick to info about pickups.
you step up to a 44' DRV, or even bigger 5th wheel, your 450 might be near it's limit. Some of these super large 5th wheels are too much for your average 1 ton.
exactly, I'm shopping a 44ft toy hauler, will weight over 20k loaded. So either a Kodiak minimum or a smaller freightliner.
@@jlpowell8432 Most Kodiak/Top Kick were(they don't make them anymore) class 4-5 trucks. The same, or possibly lower, weight rating as the F-450/550.
we use a medium duty truck to haul our 10 horse goosneck and it just works way better.. it stops the trailer better than the 350 or 450. that trailer isnt light at all fully loaded.. also it is a major pain in the ass to park a large truck
This video was significantly helpful
I think most guys who do this work on their own stuff or they have a history of being a OTR driver. I do think when you get over 15k of weight being towed, a small semi and a pickup start getting the same fuel mileage. The smaller semi engines have the same spec a pickup has, just more speeds. Also new semis are coming in automatics. In fact most large companies are ordering them that way for fuel mileage and less training needed. New semi's will get 8 mpg towing and 11ish bob tailing. That is 600hp 2,000 ft lbs of torque towing just under 80,000 lbs at 65mph getting 8 to 8.5 mpg on flat terrain.
I drive a small class 7 truck freightliner for work in a town with narrow streets it's not that big I actually feel more confident driving it than my personal truck i can see a lot better with it but I do agree buying a class 7 or 8 truck is a bit overkill to just tow a fifth wheel rv and I can also take sharper turns with that truck and back up better
Gustavo Degollado: thanks for commenting. much appreciated
you have no idea what your talking about. I've worked in a truck shop for a long time. I own a 6.0 powerstroke. a class 8 truck costs way less you maintain. 40,000 mile oil change interval that costs 200 bucks. fuel filters oil filter and oil for my 6.0 cost 300 ant a 5,000 interval. dude. don't be biased and get your facts straight. ( if you drive with air brakes you need a cdl) you will get tickets with out of state tags. insurance is cheaper that class 2-3 on a class 8. that's a fact
HUFF LAWNS LLC you actually just need the air brake endorsement, not a full cdl.
Why would you wait till 40000 too change the oil. Every 10000 on a road truck.
I bought a shortened single axle volvo vnl610 w/ detroit s60 for 5,000 ( has over 550k) . I only use it to tow my 19k pound 5er.
It would be impractical in my opinion to spend 60 or 70k on a new dually diesel pick up to tow my trailer. They are completely impractical to drive daily.
My volvo maneuvers and rides way better than any 3/4 or one ton pick up.
I've towed my trailer with my buddies 2015 power stroke f450 and its a night and day difference. The truck really struggled on hills.. it got the job done but it felt like it was at it peak. The semi doesn't even know the trailer is back there thanks to 1500 lbs of torque. This thing literally goes up steep grades in cruse with no down shifting.
I also get 9 mpg with the trailer fully loaded. I do most of my own maintenance so it's not that bad and have never experienced a break down considering its working at 15% capacity vs 90% with a pickup truck. The biggest downside is driving it around after getting to destinations but it also sucks driving a crew cab pickup around. For the average Joe I'd say get a pickup.. just my .02c
Ps; my buddies 70k dollar ford is in the shop getting a new $15k engine at 130k miles.
I agree with everything you said. Class 3 trucks have gotten so capable that there is very few 5th wheels that need anything bigger.
Nathan Curet: yes sir. thanks!
Big Truck Big RV hey also a semi will stop quicker with a full load than being empty or pulling a lite camper because you don't have the proper weight on your drive axles just thought you would like to know
Nathan Curet well FORD and RAM have... What's with GM keeping the 23,500lb tow capacity and not bumping it up?
I watched a video just a couple days ago where a GM engineer was asked that same question, -his response was that 99.XXX% of the truck market never tows anything over 23,5, so they opted to not go for the extra rating. I imagine it has everything to do with what makes sense money wise and from a marketing perspective. I have driven many classes of big trucks over the years, and I will say that I have no desire to tow anything over 20k behind a pickup, -just my opinion. The problem nowadays is everyone want a rig that can do it all, -and they wonder why they cost $70k.
Ratman572 I find that reasoning bs. I have read of many people that tow 25k+ fairly often. There are some 5th wheels that weigh more than 23.5k. The number of models start getting rare at around 27k+.
Freightliner M2 has a tighter turning radius than a GMC 1 ton
Interesting points to consider. There are a number of erroneous statements in the video (like the weight of medium and heavy duty trucks), but others have pointed them out. Currently debating upgrading my Cummins Dually Ram 3500 to a Cummins Ford F-650 or F-750 (primarily for the upgrade to an Allison transmission and extra weight handling) for trailers between 18 and 25k. The cost factor isn't rocket science, but it was good to be reminded of the difference in costs and difficulty of maintenance for things like tires, engine components, etc.
Do people seriously drive Class 8 trucks without CDL to tow their 5th wheel RVs? I can understand an F-650 or below maybe, where the vehicle is under CDL anyway, but a Class 8 is massive and unnecessary overkill.
My reason for wanting a Semi tractor is that I can have a situation where I can stack two cars on the back of the tractor and still pull a large trailer. Not saying you are wrong but my want and need is such that it works for me.
Very valid points
Chris Rodriguez: thanks. I'll be msging you soon about the Readers Ride.
And just a heads up but you can get just about any class 8 truck with an automatic now. While they are still rather new, they are actually nice in form and function.
Awesome Video!🎥
If you have a rig with air brakes. carry a quality air impact driver for tire changes etc. The Goodyear RV tires are probably the most outrageously overpriced tire going. Quality 19.5's can be had for reasonable prices. My opinion... most rv's are never going to push the limits of an F-450 or similar Ram etc and need an up class truck to make the noted drawbacks worth it capability wise.
You make some good points describing pros and cons. I checked to compare the overall length and width of the F450 verses a Sport Chasis. There is really no difference. Both have same problem in parking lots. I venture to say the Freightliner is a better hauler how be it more expensive. Another issue where I live is hauling a combined truck and trailer over 25,000 lbs requires a class A restricted license. This applies to any truck trailer combination exceeding the weight limit. This may be the most convincing reason to stay within a F450 size truck and smaller trailer.
Good video like usual. One thing when you get the inspection sticker and license plate you will be spending a lot more for them also. Before someone jumps into one of these you need to look at the cost. Even if you found a Ford F650 with a 5.9 or 6.7 engine, the same as a Ram 2500 to 4500. Your best fuel milage might be 12 mpg unloaded and no trailer. In a lot of areas you cant park something that big by your house.
Insurance is the biggest thing. I pay $1900. If you can't fit you just go somewhere else. Semi truck you can drop your 5th wheel or tiny house and pick up some trailers in that area with trailer interchange insurance. You'll get paid in 24-48 hours with a factoring company. Can't do that with a pickup. So if you are running low on funds for your trip, you can just run a few loads and make enough off that to go another month.
I always wanted to know this comparison. thank you
good video. I think i'd still get a rv toter as an excuse to drive a semi without a cdl ha ha. But I do agree with you how in most situations class 8 trucks are overkill with most 5th wheels.
Only issue I have with this whole idea is practicality! With someone like a 1 ton your making a tradeoff where your getting something that can tow it but also be useful when you get there and unhitch. With this your getting something that excellent at the towing part but not very useful once you get there.
i do it becouse if there is a bad storm we can get into the semi.. plus storage
Great reality check. Still that MDL looks good. If I was rich I would want the M2 Sport crew cab with a longer wheel base for the smart car.... Maybe a transfer case too. I'm sure I'll end up with the light truck. Yes,, Momma can't drive a stick.
A pre-emissions medium truck specd with a mechanical engine and manual transmission will be very affordable to operate and out last any pickup truck. If you have any mechanical inclination you could do most of the maintenance on your own, there are class 8 drivers who do their own maintenance. There are medium duty trucks out there with hydroboost style brakes negating any issues with air brakes.
I have been watching a ton of reviews about trucks and as I was watching this one I couldn’t help but notice that you are driving into Edinburg, Tx. I currently drive this route to and from work everyday, it took about 2-3 landmarks before I said there’s no way it can be any other road lol. Thanks for the info and be safe on the road buddy.
That was good intel regarding semi truck or pickup tow vehicle.
Why a 450, when I bought by Ram 3500 I was told the only thing I would gain with the 4500 was payload not towing capacity?
chaskott3: it's the opposite with the F450 pickup. You gain towing but lose a bit of payload.
Big Truck Big RV ok, I bought a commercial cab and chassis, I actually looked at the 4500 but stayed with the 3500 for the towing
chaskott3: Ford is a little different than RAM in the sense that they offer a non commercial F450 pickup still classified as a Class 3 truck (GVWR 14k). My max towing is 31,200lbs vs roughly 26,000 for a Max tow F350 Dually
Great videos l enjoy your channel! Thanks for all the great content! Kevin Rutherford talked about how the Class 6 trucks are often more expensive than the Class 8! So for the money get the bigger truck and many have nice sleepers with dual bunks and refrigerators. Two more beds when needed.
It won't be easier or cheaper to get a 3500 or 350 worked on unless it is warranty work. For class 6, 7 and 8 right now there are 243 TA Travel Centers open 24 hours 365 days with 3,000 diesel techs that can get you back on the road fast. Or stop by ANY of the 430+ Love's Travel Centers with 24/7 Tire Techs for road calls or tire repair. Most have day and night shift trained mechanics also! They aren't even allowed to look at your pick up or pusher RV.
When your Ram or Ford breaks good luck getting any service for a few days. God help you if it's a weekend or holiday. You're going to be down a while. Especially in the small towns with one dealer with one trained tech to fix it!
Either way both are amazing platforms to tow with. 30' and under I'd like a nice DRW gas Ram 3500 or F350. Over 30' I'd say class 8.
Volvo IShift is fully automatic and with Volvo Engine can push close to 2 Million miles. You will need 7 of those 450s to make it to 2 million miles at 75 grand a piece...
Wow! A lot of misinformation here. I drive for a company that owns more than 5,000 tractors. 50 of them have a manual transmission. The rest are all what is called automated manual. The shifting and clutching are done by a computer. Also, less than 1% of class 8 trucks are anywhere near 25,000 lbs. They also have much bigger brakes and some with discs. They have a much shorter stopping distance than you wou imagine.
There are plenty of "automatic" semi trucks now. There are even professional semi drivers that can't drive stick because they trained and started with a company that buys the automatic only trucks exclusively. The real reason to have a semi truck for your RV for some guys is that they are a professional driver and want to work part time in trucking. They own their own rig and drive for money when they want/need to and then haul any size 5th wheel they want in recreational time.
Last time I checked my 97 Ford F-superduty F450 4x4 7.3L Powerstroke Diesel Service Truck is a medium duty truck with a 15000lbs GVWR. The Later F450 trucks like your pulling with are usually rated for 17500 or 19500. So you're in fact driving a class 5 or class 6 truck. Which in all intended purposes is a Medium duty truck.
I have seen many people who run an F450 or F550 dually truck and pull 5th wheels and gooseneck trailers all day with them. Not many issues with them either.
The biggest issue one would have is braking on a steep grade fully loaded.
Now my trucks a little old school. It's an OBS Ford F-superduty with a Dana 70 front axle in the front and a Dana 80 Commercial Cab and Chassis Dually rear end and 4.56 gear ratio. Also has 16" 10 lug wheels and hydraulic disc brakes front and rear. And I have 235 85 16 Load Range E 10 ply mud and Snow Truck Tires.
Most of the F350, Chevy, GMC , and Dodge Ram dually Trucks from those years are running around 10-11k GVWR.
But now if you want to pull a horse trailer with a 1 ton dually pick up truck they want to enforce these ELDs on those trucks.
I'm only 30 and I am afraid that in my lifetime they'll be pushing ELDs in the 1 ton dually trucks pulling large 5th wheel RVs and Gooseneck Trailers.
The farm people and the RV people need to get their act together and lobby to make sure that doesn't happen.
You can run more miles before you have to do a service on a bigger truck. If you can do some of your own work on the trucks the bigger trucks are easier to work on ,this is just my opinion. I have a F350 and think I would prefer a bigger truck to pull a large 5th wheel, and have a smaller car to take with me. A dual wheel 4 door long bed truck can be a pain to get around with in some areas to.
Class 8 trucks have to be re-certified as an RV, which some states do not allow. Then the insurance is hard to find and very expensive.
F450 is the way to go, since its brakes are much larger than a Ram.
Hmm, not sure this is not maybe a little opinionated biased review. I have seen many Freightliner Fl70's, M2's with less than 80k miles, numerous less than 40k miles for 35k-65k. And an auto car wash is a tunnel of death for your paint. The biggest argument I read on all the forums is braking and why someone wants a bigger heavier truck is that it can stop a 23,000lb toy hauler. I am typing as I listen to your review and PLEASE DO A REVIEW/COMPARISON ON SMALLER LIKE A FREIGHTLINER M2! Not a huge tractor! The M2 has better turning radius than any dually, ALL M2's come with automatic allisons! Kodiaks come with Allison Auto's! So this coming to end is about HUGE semi trucks towing 5th wheels. Please do vid on smaller ones, thanks! Love the channel!
Yes, i totally agree with you. if i had one, id pull a 53 Foot tractor trailer with my F550. i find it very fun. espicially having a GAS engine, i find more valuble. i truley dont care for class 6 trucks
A 2500 would get better fuel mileage than a semi wouldn't it ? $150 garmin better than any factory navigation
scott smith gas or diesel? A semi will get 7 or 6 with a light load
Pulling how much weight against how much headwind, with how much resistance presented to the relative wind? Many fifth wheels are over 13' tall. And Garmin makes a great GPS for OTR trucks as well as for other uses. Factory navigation can be great when it's new - but it can't be replaced or upgraded for the most part. I hate that. True for all vehicles that I know of.
What are your thoughts for F450 or similar size vehicle with stock pickup box vs low utility box towing a 5th wheel?
Just a small point, girls can not only drive manual transmissions but they can vote now also.
Apparently your sun is about twice the size as the one at my planet.
Terry Pullen
Everything in his world is big
Is it safe to drive a dually with a flat tire?
You should do a video in how to put a spare tire on a dually truck back wheel
Eddie Gastellum yes and no. If not loaded, or else very lightly, there shouldn't be a problem getting it off the road or to the next exit, as long as you monitor for heat and or smoke. If the tyre is missing, just bare rim, your fine, but a simple flat, you have the risk of a tire fire (which even the fire department has an entertaining afternoon trying to put it out(
Automatic transmissions are becoming more and more common, especially with the larger carriers as a result of the increased need for drivers and a lowering of standards for new drivers.
Yes and if you test in 1 your cdl will only let you drive a automated transmission truck not 1 with a 10 speed or a greater tranny.thats what I was told.
You have some good points but a ton of opinions not fax's
I had a number of 1ton's and made the change to a 2004 volvo vn 630 (eaton 10 speed autoshift)
I've pulled living quarters horse trailers up to 30 000pounds with both and made the change for the safety of my family
They can be registered as an RV/hauler and insured for 5-600$ canadain a yaer for full coverage
Please drive a class 8 and try braking once with your trailer brakes on, then pretend you had a failer or burned you traier brakes go down hill. The only thing you will be saying 'I was wrong wrong wrong"
Sorry just had to put my 2cents in CHEERS
I think the tire at 4:47 is a retread, on the front, not good. I for one like your opinions.
I'm pretty sure retread on steers in illegal too. Lol
lots of tractors today have automatic transmissions in them due to most new drivers growing up not being able to shift due to the vast majority of the vehicles today are primarily automatics. just thought I'd shout out that bit of information for you.
All you need to know is a class 8 when going uphill with the biggest 5th wheel and a car on the back will hold the speed limit and not overheat. Try that with a Ford!
You might want to take a look at all of the big trucks that have automatic transmissions. Many carriers use exclusively automatics. Tyson foods, Maverick transportation, US Xpress, Pam, to mention just a few, as well as many more.
Just a question, what is it that you do that you keep buying new trucks and keep making videos like this, do you haul trailer across the country?
Interesting and thought provoking. Thanks for the insights.
yes now you can get automatic in larger trucks online
May think of renaming your video to "Reasons to not use a medium or heavy duty truck to haul a travel trailer". Was not much of a "Showdown" as you just discouraging the use of larger trucks. I was looking for Pro's AND Con's.
Great vid
Hi Guys I have just brought a Mercedes Semi to Pull my 35ft 5ver.... Reason doing so The Semi design to pull 18 tonnes... my Trailer Full laden 7 tonnes. .For the Semi no contest. As For Braking, she has Exhaust brakes ABS so the wheels do not lock up She Will Pull up on a dime .She will out run any F350/450 Pull more And with a 3000 kilometre fuel range Leave u all behind........ Have a great day U all
I know this video is dated but, if you are full timing you are MUCH better off with a HDT, Barr none. tell me how much it costs for a MDT and a LDT for brakes and drums and what the life of both are towing a 20,000+ fifth wheel...Huge difference!!!!!!
Ford 750/650 seems like the middle ground for this
Comfort features are more advanced in a pickup? Clearly you’ve never driven a Pete/KW. Larger trucks can come with a day cab, sleeper, big sleeper, REALLY big sleeper, and the extended cab medium duty trucks with extended cabs that can get seats or bunk in the back.
A lot of good points you have and I agree with what your saying but there is one thing I do know about tires both my father and brother worked for good year tire in Ohio and truck tires are made with different compounds than smaller pick up tires, semi tires will last up to 200.000 miles and more, they have too or we would not see truckers on the road because they company's could not afford it at 800 each so with that said your pick up will only get maybe 60.000 at best so you are going to spend alot not quite as much but it's not as far difference as anybody may think in time. stating p/u 6 wheeler compaired to semi 6 wheeler
The cheaper class 8 trucks are usually auto shifts they come in both 2 and 3 petal I had a 2006 kenworth t600 with a autoshift
Correction most class 8 trucks are taken off the road between 350 550,000 miles if u happen to pickup a truck with over a million miles it's owned and operated by a owner op not a large trucking company