How The Owl House Quietly Fixed Its BIGGEST Flaw!
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- čas přidán 16. 05. 2024
- With season 3 on the horizon, now is the best time to take a look at one of the most under appreciated improvements of The Owl House: The villains!
Vote on your predictions for S3 of the Owl House:
Part 1 - forms.gle/V6SmmJSfR4XZWGPk8
Part 2 - forms.gle/4vVBZJbSFKhVsbVq9
Part 3 - forms.gle/ibPZkAUULMqjj75s9
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Music Credits (Thank you, you talented people!):
First and foremost all credit for music and remixes for the show belong to the original composers of The Owl House Soundtracks for Seasons 1, 2, and 3: T.J Hill and Brad Breeck
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Disclaimer:
I do not own, nor do I claim to, own operate within Disney's The Owl House. All rights belong to Walt Disney Studios.
Section 30(1) of the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988 provides that fair dealing exception is valid if copyrighted material is used for the purposes of criticism or review. Therefore, all uses of copyrighted material in this video are fair dealing (fair use). - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Just about Hunter, he gets weaker when the show shows his other side because he changes his mechanical staff for the palisman, which not only is less familiar for him, but also relies more on his magic, which he doesn't have.
Flapjack (like all palesmen) have their own internal reserve of magic. That's what hunter and luz draw upon when casting spells with staffs.
@@solsystem1342 yes, thanks for the complement!
@@joltixer3099 Complement ≠ compliment
Complement means "something that completes or fills" it's not the same as compliment
@@retro-porygon o interesting 1
@@retro-porygon 😦
Something I always hated/loved about Belos's face reveal was the fact that he such a kind face. Such kind eyes.
When people as heinous as he is have kind faces and kind eyes makes them even scarier because that means anyone who appears sweet as honey can be nothing but pure venom.
It means no one is inherently safe.
This is a very good point because in many other shows, I keep thinking “come on characters, they are obviously the villain just look at their face! Classic villain face!” But with this, he looks like a good guy. So yes, I like that as well. It just adds to him being a good villain.
Which is a very important lesson and why it is so important to show this.
Many kids and even adults fall for charisma. You actively have to train yourself to look past charisma but it can only be done once you have seen failure. Then you learn a lot of manipulative phrases in general to avoid.
"For the kids" goes from one of the nicest things to one of the most venom filled deceptive things possible.
@Lind Morn Yes, but he's disfigured because he's evil.
I guess a real life equivalent would be a man with horrible face scars he got while trying to kill someone
Oh that's something I wish someone taught me when I was younger lol, but like so true, it must've been so impactful to see first viewing (I got it spoiled tho lol)
Yes! This is something that lacks on general media villains and that i really appreciated in The Owl House, and that you can really tell why Hunter were so attached to Belos and why he got extremely panicked after discovering the truth. It was because, for Hunter, Belos wasnt represented by that horrid mask, he was represented by his "true" kind face, wich is implied after Belos, in his monster form, changed his face to his true one while staring at Hunter, trying to guilt-trip him.
Sorry for any spelling or grammar mistakes, english isnt my first language.
You know, it's ironic.
Belos is scarry partly because we don't know his motives, but his motives turn out to be hating what he dosn't understand.
The irony
Dang... the best villains are a mirror to what we fear about ourselves.
scarry
This show is full of both blatant and veiled social commentary (Belos being the more subtle of the such) and Im all for it!
I miss when kid shows had some deeper themes, ya know?
I think a thing with hunter is also: The confident 'Golden Guard' Persona _only comes out when he is wearing the mask._ To me that reeks of: "I'm not confident in who I am, so I'm going to put on this costume and then I'll be the skilled and witty Golden Guard that stupid little Hunter could never be."
I genuinely disagree with the idea that Hunter's superiority was just a persona, or a mask to hide his inferiority. The idea just falls flat once you realize that Hunter still had to EARN his title as Golden Guard in the first place. His implied arrogance and cocky attitude is arguably *justified.*
I know the show wants us to forget that he HAS a history beyond Belos' abuse, but remember: he only got his artificial staff AFTER he became GG. Prior to that, he still had to go through incredibly rigorous training (including Witch's Duels) and rise up the ranks _on his own_ despite not having any magic. The fact that he was able to do that so quickly, at such a young age, is actually a testament to how talented he was (to the point of making a name for himself as the "genius teen prodigy"). Belos promoted him in response to the accomplishments he _already_ made up to that point.
Meaning? Well, if having no magic didn't stop him from becoming Golden Guard and he ONLY has the position thanks to his own hard work and achievements.. what weakness is there to hide? Sure, he could still feel bitter and insecure about not having magic, but why would he need to hide behind a persona? Why WOULDN'T he think highly of himself the way so many others do when he's effectively already proved he has the right o be arrogant?
@@DLxxx this.
just… this. I agree completely
that's what the point of the mask iissss
@@DLxxx Actually i would say that the first episode of the third season kinda confirmed my theory.
He puts on the Owl Mask because it helps him _play a more confident Persona_
@@DLxxx True I agree with this
even though he should be super proud of himself, he isnt. Belos is a manipulator and he made hunter feel as though his only purpose in life was to serve him, and in doing so, made hunter feel like he had no purpose if he wasnt serving belos. This was the reason it was so hard for hunter to leave belos’ side, since it was pretty much engraved into his brain at that point. Honestly this is pretty smart writing if you think about it, because it’s very realistic. If ‘person A’ drills the whole “you are worthless without me” thing in ‘person B’s head for that many years, and even if person B finds out its just a lie, that thought still sticks with them and it’s like Person A has found a way into your head, still manipulating and influencing your actions even if you dont notice it
I don’t think Lilith was ever really meant to be a villain. We didn’t really need one right away. She filled the antagonist role, but more as a foil for Eda, helping to illustrate her disdain for order and rejection of authority. Plus, if you’re not trying to take things all dark-and-edgy serious, their sibling dynamic is an absolute _joy._ 😂
Absolutely 💯
Yeah, I believe she was supposed to be somewhat of a cartoony villain misdirect. This is during the time when you're still figuring out what the shows going to be like, so the classic ever-non-threatening kids show villain makes the absolute bombshells that happen later all the more effective.
To me, what makes Belos so terrifying is his _realness._
It's the Voldemort-Umbridge principle: Voldy is the big bad, yes and he is scary.... but people hate Umbridge because they _know_ her. They have come across people _like_ her and she is terrifyingly real
The same goes for Belos. Someone who manipulates, who believes to bein the absolute right, that his ideal of the world is the only true one and anyone with a different opinion isn't worth saving... These people exist and you ahve probably met them. And that is scary to think about
yk i usually have to block out all mentions of that shitty franchise simply because of all of the turmoil it has caused me and people like me to even hear it mentioned but i’m kinda glad you said this since it’s so much more horrifically ironic being as the disgusting creator of said shitty franchise ended up being a belos
Absolutely true.
@Lind Morn its the most recongized example tho. ya can use that franchise as an example and even still enjoy it. its the act of giving money and not having that little astisk next to your enjoyment thats the issue.
I’d also like to note that not only did he trick everyone in this show, but with the day of unity and what he used as a coverup for said plan, he tricked the audience as well.
Because we all thought he was going to merge the realms it was pretty obvious with the information given, but he was tactical enough to give the characters the information about the draining spell at the same time as the audience did, which is a very unique take on the liar reveal story.
Cuz we hypothesized that he was Philip, but we didn’t know how deeply rooted his plan was with who he was as a person, with his inspiration coming from the Connecticut witch trials and colonialism in general, I just find that detail so interesting and unique as another addition to this show and how it’s told, cuz we know something is up, just not what
connecticut witch trials?
@@nightorchid5031 yes?
@@nightorchid5031 yes the salem witch trials in connecticut tht happened in the 1600s
@@sabine1285 Salem is in Massachusetts, but also it wasn't the only town that had witch trials, it's just the most well known
@@queenks9150 i know
but it was in the exact region
massachusetts is near connecticut and thats where luz lives soooo
What I loved about Belos is how he evolved as a villain in the perspective of us viewers.
He starts out as the harsh ruler of the Boiling Isles who forces everyone into his magic system, because he says it's the only right way.
Then he becomes the guy that wants to get to the human realm for some reason, we don't know yet why, but assume an invasion or something like that.
Then we learn that he is actually Phillip, so now we assume that he is simply searching for a way home and is "just" taking some radical steps to do so. Merging the human and demon realm seems to be his solution to that.
Then "Hollow Mind" happens and he reveals, that he's actually a witch hunter. His threat factor immediately goes up immensly. Before we thought he just wanted to get home. Now we just realised, that he wants to genocide all of the Boiling Isles. It makes his character immediately much more threatening and it's done so well and impactful, that it stays with you even afterwards.
This slow build-up of our opinion of Belos from the things that we learn is amazingly done. We slowly learn more and more, form our opinions on him and start believing we know what he wants and how he thinks. Then new things are revealed and we form a new opinion, now being sure, that this will be it. There will be no more reveals, we know his motivation and have an idea, what he's going to do. Only to be proven absolutely wrong and finding out, that he wants to do things, that are way more terrible than anything we could have ever thought of. It's amazing.
How long did this take😆
@@alexismeyers6995 Yes
lilith was manipulated by belos from the start. she got so high in the emperors coven solely for her safety. belos let her live so she can travel back in time and help him get to the collector.
Doesn’t he want to go to the human realm because it’s his home?
Edit: lol, I wrote this before I read the part where we discover that Belos is Phillip.
@@burythevoid I just realized that!
I definitely feel like Lillith being immediately redeemed is a combination of sympathy for her treatment under Belos as well as, of course, the cancellation of a full season 3. They wanted Lillith to be a long-term protagonist by the end but couldn't give her a few episodes to warm up to the cast after the whole cursed her sister and threatened Luz's life thing sooo it feels slightly rushed.
The Collector definitely needs season 3's trio of specials the most, not just because he didn't get much time to shine, but because they were, according to... OK I don't have a source on this because bad memory, but I recall it being stated that The Collector actually wasn't planned as a villain until the season 3 cut.
You are correct! Dana confirmed in the post-hoot livestream for King's Tide that they wanted to include a character like the Collector early on (chaotic, morally gray, looks like a doll), but when they got the shortened order they created the Collector as he is now and decided to go ham.
@@RavenStarMedia Thx for the source and further information!
The timeline of the s3 cut news reaching dana would mean that, at least S2 episodes1 and 2, which both showcase the new completely forgiven lilith, were written before the shows cut.
Given Disney's meddling and failure to commit to their prior agreements, I 100% believe that there was a different plan initially for the series going forward, but "sacrifices" had to be made due to Disney suddenly ceasing their support.
(I personally would've loved if fan theories of the Collector possessing Luz had been real. If so, then Season Three could've been like "Darcy" and "Bipper" combined into one!)
Yeah the collector was definitely a “we need to speed this up” kinda situation lol
just something to point out about hunter’s fight at eclipse lake, i think he was trying not to hurt amity. throughout the fight, he wasn’t actually being all that physical, and every move he made was to grab the key, not hurt amity. i think of his intentions were to kill her, he would’ve done a better job
Plus he was using the new actual magic based staff for the first time rather than the mechanical one he had trained with and gotten used to
never thought of both of these… Plus he says ‘i’m tired’ after so maybe he has been traveling by himself up the mountain or something…
That’s how I saw he can’t go all out because it would risk damaging the titan’s blood.
@@nox..thecoolone he also meant emotionally. he was exhausted and literally on the verge of a breakdown.
@@Kris-wo4pj i-i know i was being sarcastic 😔
I don’t really see the collector as a villain, nor did I see Lilith as one in season 1. I’ve always just seen Philip as the villain sense he was the higher up telling Lilith and hunter what to do, and a lot of us already guessed he wasn’t going to let the collector free. I just see collector as a kid who was never really taught how or what to use his powers for without hurting others.
I’m sorry but the collector knowingly flicked bellos to his death absolutely splattering him. It was horrifying to the cast and at that point it’s not just a “silly little kid” it’s a seriously messed up entity
@@aysharoberts7579 agree
@@aysharoberts7579 Nah. People crush bugs all the time, and you generally don't call someone a villain because they squished a spider. Belos tried to crush the Collector, and turnabout is fair play. If you're stupid enough to burn bridges with a childlike deity with unfathomable powers who never learned how to play nicely with others, you kind of get what you had coming.
Besides, you can be an "antagonist" without being a "villain". The Collector isn't trying to foil anyone's plans, they're just doing whatever they want to do. Also, I'm pretty sure the end of the episode revealed that Belos isn't dead.
@@moldymulder
Girl… when the collector was working with bellos they knew bellos was going to try and eliminate an entire world of innocent people. The collector was just fine with that, and was even expressed to be bored while waiting for it to happen. They are not a “little kid” that’s just goofing around, LIKE I SAID, they are a overpowered entity that does what they want when they want no matter what it costs. That I would confidently say is what a villain does.
I don’t understand how people try to project the collector as this sad lonely kid when they are literally just a being of chaos that I would honestly compare to the likes of bill cipher.
I think it's a debate of antagonist vs villain. A villain wants to hurt the main characters; i.e. Belos. An antagonist isn't necessarily evil or acting with malicious intent, it's just their goals conflict with the protagonist's. Lilith wasn't evil per se but what she wanted and what Eda/Liz wanted were in direct conflict so she was an antagonist. Amity would fall under this umbrella for a short time. The collector is a weird case because they don't seem to necessarily be malevolent on purpose, but they do have an unimaginable amount of power and no sense of morality or consequences which makes them a very dangerous antagonist, and depending on how they view the protags when the inevitable fight happens they may become a villain
The collector should be defeated by having Luz give them an iPad and them going to live with Camila for a bit so they have WiFi 💀
might as well give them a bag of cheetos
@@ouuma yes
@@ouuma flaming hot cheetos lmao
Camilla definitely will be able to set them straight with the power of LA CHANCLA 🩴! For real though, yeah honestly I can see Camila taking care of them maybe if they’re reform and need guidance of a parent figure to learn how to mature.
They would totally love minecraft pocket edition
i’m honestly kinda happy that belos isn’t fully dead yet. obviously i hate him and want him to die eventually, but he’s such a good villain that i want to know more and see more of him. wether that comes in the form of a backstory, still being alive, or both. the way the collector booped him to goop kinda felt incomplete, and that’s why i’m a bit happy he is probably still alive.
I agree
I just don’t want another Toffee.
The colelctor killing him would've been too anticlimatic, too many stories don't let the heroes ACTUALLY take down their villain, it feels lame.
I kinda sad hes alive HE KILLED FLAPJACK
@Mario Spoiler alert!
I truly believe Dana planned to make use of the body swap on the day of unity but ultimately couldn’t make it work due to the cancellation rushing the story. I can’t think of any other episode that didn’t move the overall narrative at least a *little*, and Body Swap doesn’t seem to at all, which is very odd. I was meh on Luz in Eda’s body, semi-amused with King in Luz’s body, but honestly thought Eda was freaking hilarious in King’s body. Not my favorite episode by any means, but Wendie Malick as Eda was the saving grace for me.
Actually that would’ve been both funny and cool if the body swap did come into play during the DOU; just like how the mindscape from Understanding Willow came back with Hollow Mind. If it did happen, I could see it as that maybe Lilith and Eda were supposed to swap bodies as Lilith making a sacrifice for Eda of taking her place with the curse if possible.
I hate that episode, but Eda does makes it slightly enjoyable 😭
Once Upon a Swap has came up in many ways, just it's not all obvious. It's all foreshadowing how the dynamics are going to change and how the characters need to grow. I'll separate and focus on the characters to make it more understandable.
Luz: Becomes the powerful witch she always wanted to be, however, she quickly finds out that there is more to being a witch than anticipated. Luz finds out that to be a good witch requires knowledge and cunning that she just hasn't developed yet. This also foreshadows how she becomes the mentor figure for the rest of the group.
King: Finally is no longer looked down. Wait, you mean to tell me that growing up comes with more responsibility and infinitely more complex? How does this not summarize his character growth through most of season 2.
Eda: Becomes the least threating but the most loved characters in group. Despite being non-threating, Eda still has problems to take care of and can do little by herself. However, despite the sense of being helplessness she can still try to fight back (kind of like she does in season 2).
Lilith: Despite being the imposing antagonist, her personality is like a dog. Loyal to a fault and her bark is worst than her bite. Then after she turns in to beast, it just turns out that she just wants her sister.
@@Average-Joe851 That is quite an interesting interpretation, never thought of it that way
@@Average-Joe851 not to mention, that was the episode that introduced the branding sigil glove
I don't think Belos is blonde. His hair is gray. it was just the light of the teleporter that made his hair look blonde. In other scenes, his hair is clearly gray. And when he was younger, he had brown hair.
The reason Lilith was forgiven so fast because everything she did was to protect Eda. After she cursed Eda she wanted to cure her, not capture her, and Eda knows this. That is why instead of handing her in she asks Eda to join the emperors coven. I don’t think they ruined Lilith with her actions because of Belos’ manipulation and the fact that he wouldn’t heal her if she didn’t capture Eda. Lilith still respected Eda and that is why she was forgiven. Hope this shines some light on why the show did this.
EXACTLY!😭
she also literally did the next best thing and gave up her magic so Eda's curse would slow down. she gave up the very thing that made her curse her sister and gave herself a disability for her sister. she also only thought that curse would last a day and been feeling a large amount of guilt ever since.
@@Kris-wo4pj
What if a time traveler stop Lilith from cursing Eda?
The fact that Odalia isn't here is a war crime.
Hollow Mind turned Belos from merely a good villain to a FREAKING AMAZING ONE.
Seriously, this man is undoubtedly one of Disney's and animated television's BEST villains, imo.
I feel like a lot of these critiques really fall on the team being unsure or knowing that they’re not getting renewed for a full season and so literally not having the time to invest in letting the characters evolve more naturally. The first season could be better paced and include a few filler episodes to get a feel for the characters but they essentially had to cram a season and a half of plot into 24 episodes with a 20 minute runtime whereas amphibia got a lot longer to flesh out characters and consequences
While I do adore Lilith a lot I have to agree with you, but I also kind of find it tragic that after several decades, Belos made Lilith believe that the only way for her to get far in life was to hurt others and on top of that forced her to capture her sister thinking it was the best for her so she can get her cursed cured only to change plans and try to petrify her, all because she punched him all those years ago to get back at her probably.
I never thought about that!! Makes perfect sense. I didn't make the 1-1 that lillith was in the coven and below knew her in the past!
"STAY MAD!!" Yeahhhh Philip took that a *biiit* too seriously.
That sounds hilarious
@@raineblackstar3522 he stayed mad for hundreds of years
The biggest thing I wanted to see and am sad we didn't get was a duel between Terra and Willow.
That line you had about Belos, staring into the dark, yeah that sent a chill through me. I definitely do not want to meet that guy in a dark alleyway
there is another reason Belos has such a strong presence in the story beyond mystery: th fact his behind EVERYTING. Every antagonist in the show (apart from the octopus man in s1 ep2) has been acting on his rule, or working to get into his good favour. He's the reason the Boiling Isles is such an overly restrictive, controlling place despite appearing chaotic in the first impression. He's the one telling Lilith to capture Eda, the one who WANTS Eda captured, the one who made the magic system as it is now.
He has a presence because he's ALREADY IN CONTROL. He's the one making the story happen, even when he's not onscreen.
I don’t know if The Collector’s going to be a villain in the same sense as other villains on this list. He’s a child. Yes, likely many centuries old, but he is a being of magic likely from what appears to be a long lived species, so he IS a child with the brain of a child and a child’s psychology. The longer a species lifespan, the longer their infant and juvenile stages- it’s why mice are fully grown in weeks, dogs in months, and humans in years. He seems like a child that no one has ever been able to discipline because of his immense power. I truly think only King’s dad had any handle on him seeing as he put him in the in between realm, and I feel like that was a time out for trying to play with King’s egg, that he meant to release him once King was safely hidden away but was killed before he could do so. He acts more in line with a child under ten that’s never been disciplined AND taught why his actions are bad. When a small child hits, even if it doesn’t hurt, you tell them hitting isn’t allowed because it hurts others and hurting others isn’t nice. When that child hits someone again, you repeat what you said and make the stand in the corner. A third time, you do the same as the second, but also ask how they would feel if someone hit them. This is what I think he’s lacking. Empathy. It’s something we have to LEARN. It’s why many slave owners felt sadness for whites in poor situations, but nor for their own slaves. They were taught to not have empathy using the rationale that “they aren’t people, they’re slaves, they’re property” when it came to differentiating between why the feel bad for a white person who lost a loved one, but not feel bad when a black person who’s loved one died from the abuse they suffered. Empathy is learned from a young age. It’s why we tell kids things like “how would you feel if someone did that to you” when they do something to another person. The Collector not only is at a stage where he’s still learning empathy, but also hasn’t HAD anyone to truly TEACH HIM how to be empathetic. So I think Belos is going to remain the big bad and befriending the Collector will be key to stopping him. Maybe Belos finds a way to become more powerful than the Collector or learns how to take his powers away. Either way, I think Belos is STILL going to be the top big bad and the Collector will be more like Hunter- a misled child who doesn’t know better.
Well said.
@@Zenek7274 when I try to point out that The Collector is a child, people usually get hung up on his age. So I’m glad at least 25 people understand what I’m saying. I don’t think what he does is GOOD. But you can’t entirely look at him as an “evil villain with bad intentions.” Is anything, he IS an antagonist (someone who’s actions, ideologies, and goals are different/opposite the protagonist and often cause conflict because of it), but not a villain. He does understand what he’s doing is wrong because his brain isn’t fully developed enough. He’s more like Draco Malfoy in the earlier Harry Potter series, young and doing what he wants to have fun, but not caring how he can effect other because he doesn’t understand how he can effect other because he never had it explained to him how he can effect others. But Malfoy wasn’t a villain. When it came to doing villainous actions, he couldn’t do it. I think once The Collector realizes how he’s hurting people, he’ll feel remorse and work to fix everything.
You sum up what I been thinking about them this entire time. I do hope though that the character or characters that do end up teaching them empathy and giving them a chance is King and Luz. It makes sense for both to besides King having the connection with them and Luz being the protagonist. King is technically a godly child as well and was kept up in delusions of being “All powerful king to all demons!” It wasn’t until he found out the truth and mature from it along with other lessons taught to him is where King now puts other less in harm(he technically did back then with having Eda almost taken by animal control or Shrinking Willow and Gus to get some time with Luz). As for Luz, well while we might have to see The Collector’s backstory yet to make comparisons. Though I think with the fact like Luz was, they’re an outsider who didn’t have any friends to the point they’re willing to be with anyone despite that person either just using them or being a bad influence; along with having destructive behavior that hurts other despite it not being from malicious intent. Not to mention both live in the idea that the isles was their own fantasy or “game” to relish in. Only difference between the them is that Luz of course grew out the mindset that the isles is her fantasy to live and play in, started being less destructive to others, and found friends/relationships that are both healthy and mutually good for each other. So in a nutshell: I believe King will probably start to reform the collector of teaching empathy as since they’re attached to King(prior history of wanting to play with him and Dana’s art of them keeping King close to them), maybe the collector will feel guilt for the first time if King is hurt by their actions or words. Then Luz will finish it off with connecting with them of how she knows the feeling of being a weirdo outsider that didn’t belong anywhere yet; afterwards offers to become their first genuine friend and mentor of sorts to him.
@@Rosa-he6xb yeah, that’s how I’m hoping it goes. Maybe even King pretending to be their first genuine friend, but they don’t fall for it easily. King, after spending time with them, learning more about them, and seeing how similar they are, forms a genuine connection with them. This confuses, scares, and upsets them because they’ve never felt a connection before or if they did it ended badly (a betrayal or someone being hurt or something like that). Maybe King gets hurt protecting them and when they ask him why he did that, he says “because your my friend” and the Collector kind of snaps. Maybe he goes into a depression over not being able to protect his only friend, maybe he goes on a rampage. Either way, Luz returns and King tells he what happened as he’s being patched up and begs her to help them. She does, she talks to him, tells him her past and how they’re alike, how she knows his pain. He settles down and they also become friends, as do the Hexside kids. And if Belos is still a problem, they all come together to permanently deal with him. I also kind of like the idea of Eda adopting them and they and King become brothers.
Ohhhhhhh i am itching to have the Collector manipulated like Hunter was after Belos was shown to be capable of doing
What makes Belos the most intimidating villain of the show,
Is that he’s British
I believe the reason we are finding a lot of Zuko characters coming out of the woodwork is because in America there is a large amount of pride and shame going around. People are actually going through the Zuko arch more or less and these characters help the individual growth.
Don't think i didn't notice how consistently you switched between using he and they while referring to the collector, fantastic work man. fantastic!
The problem with Kikimora as a villain is Hunter
Hunter was destined to go the the good side, so we had to root for him AGAINST someone and Kikimora took the task
Kiki fails because Hunter has to succeed, Hunter has to be loved and all the hate he could get as a villain is transferred to her. She's not likeable so she can't be compared to Hunter
Half of the emotional weight of Season 2B is from Hunter, so they used Kiki as a plot device to deliver HUNTER
I agree with you, I always felt that Lilith was forgiven waaaay to fast and easily. However as someone else mentioned that may be because of the shortened runtime of the show. Still it rubs me the wrong way.
I never really liked how the title sequence made it seem like she’d be struggling a Lot with her beast form but no she’s just quirky comic relief aunt figure
@@mediakira6621 yeah Lilith in the intro looks legitimately pained and sad but aside from the first episode she’s just kind of “there” over the top and funny but still “there”. Her biggest thing in regards to growth was her reconciling with her mother.
Well they only had so much time to develop her character and slowly over the course of many episodes redeem her
Do you want a time traveler stops Lilith from cursing Eda?
I don't think eda ever had anything against Lilith really, she seemed to enjoy their little occasional tussles more than anything, appreciating how her whole goal is to just help heal her curse, though she can't let that happen as she would have to follow belos and that's wrong, So when Lilith stopped being with the emperor's coven and came to be with her sister so they can try and take the curse on together it didn't take much at all for Eda to forgive her.
And with how Lilith was to blame for the curse, the show might call it a curse but they treat it more like a disability, and Eda had come to terms with her disability, and even if she hadn't she saw how Lilith had been working to try and bring her somewhere that the curse could be fixed, showing how guilty she'd felt and how she wanted to help solve the issue she caused, and Eda would have definitely forgiven her immediately upon seeing that. Eda has dealt with traumatizing experiences dealing with the curse, but blaming Lilith for it all solves nothing, she still has the curse and that ain't changing any time soon
that doesn't explain why luz forgave her so fast tho
I just realised it when you described them, but Hunters motivations actually are more similar to Azulas. They both have a feeling of superiority and more importantly are driven because they both want to please their father figure, that actually exploits them.
I'm not saying he has no similaryties with Zuko but I find it interesting because I always see characters like that get compared to him when they aren't really that similar. (An example: todoroki from bnha)
Didn't think of that before, but you are right. I always got tye impression Azula is terrified of letting her father down and is under the impression that parental affection must be earned by being nothing less than perfect. She is terrified of failure as she thinks her father won't live her anymore of she fails.
Which is kinda alot like Hunter, I remember him telling Amity in that episode where they search for Titans blood that he is afraid of letting Belos dowm and even suggests to Amity that what he thinks Luz's message means is that if she fails to get Titans blood, she should not bother coming back at all.
Which is false, but it says alot about Hunter that he considers this sort of thing to be normal anong the people you care about.
Honestly Odalia should have been somewhere on this list, and very high on it as well; she's actively engaged in not only using and manipulating people in her life to gain higher social standing (using her husband Aladore as a business partner while also severely intervening on his work and cutting back on staffing for his projects. As well as being a large factor into his distance from his own children's lives) threatening Aladore himself and her own children with malicious consequences to not following her own wants, as she did to Amity over her friendship with Willow and threatening to mess with Willows schooling future, as well as directly threatening to involve all of her children in the 'bussiness' to Aladore when he questions her.
And on top of it all, knowingly and complicity going along and actively helping Bellos with his Genocide plan and telling no one else about it; and using her own husband's Abominations to create and army for him, and not for any reason other than the notoriety and becoming a true 'royal'.
"Can we NOT with every villain?!"
This aged beautifully
So, one story I wrote for a college creative writing class which I took for fun was about how to make your villains scary. One way I did this that my professor really liked is by showing how other often powerful characters react to him which lets the audience know he isn’t to be messed with.
In my opinion, the Body Swap episode was actually necessary to the main plot, because the characters can’t work together against Belos if they can’t even understand where each other is coming from. They would’ve fallen apart in much more difficult ways to solve if they hadn’t had this huge boost of mutual understanding
I love villains as well... Like literally all my favorite characters in the world were/are bad guys and it's nuts. I think that's why I love Hunter so much XD
What about amity
i love ur pfp 💙💙💜💖💖
@@potatoshark72 Yes, I love Amity as well.
@@SammyyNico Used Owl House picrew
@@OrielleAloysia yea picrew is awesome
Honestly villains always had the better design compared to the heros when it comes to animation
Thanks for making this video! I'm glad to see someone appreciating the Owl House's rogues gallery as much as I do, and in ranking form too. I agree with this ranking completely!
Cant believe you didn’t even mention Odalia
Lilith's flip flopping of genune threat and goofy fuck up and then changed into a pretty different character afterwards as well as hunter largely dropping his jokey nature in favour of angst kinda goes hand in hand with a...PROBLEM Owl House has. It tends to be rather inconsistent with characters.
For example, Amity's siblings go from huge assholes who elt Luz and Amity to be killed by a monster in their debut episode (as well as trying to breach their sister's privacy for shitty reasons) is pretty much dropped when later on they're more characterised as Amity's largely chill, supportive siblings.
Doesn't make Owl House a bad show, jsut means it drops the ball when the writers change their ideas for how a character works like after already introducding them.
Yes! FINALLY someone else picked up this being a trend with the show!
Hunter going from being playful, confident, and menacing, to angsty, and insecure in Hunting Palisman, THEN to lovable, stuttering nerd who's largely incapable of taking caring himself in Season 2b (starting with Any Sport) is an ISSUE. It doesn't feel gradual or tied to character growth, it’s just arbitrary and forced to make the character more likable to the audience.
The fact that this _exact_ same thing happened to Lilith, who used to be in Hunter's position as Coven Head and shared a similar level of arrogance, spells out a very strange writing strategy behind "redeeming" their characters. It not only feels jarring, but I also genuinely don't understand WHY they write their characters that way in the first place.
the scene in season 3 episode 1 when Hunter gets possessed by Belos chilled me to the core. It was a perfect representation of the lengths Belos is willing to go to and his power in his Palisman'd Wendigo form. It also showed and confirmed, in a way, that he only saw Hunter as someone to use, to control. Not as family or even a person. The animation was killer as well, if it was cgi it blended perfectly. I rewatched it to death.
It was definitely one of the best scenes that showcase how eerie and powerful and psychopathic Belos truly is.
That little SAO Abridged cameo got me. Well done sir, very entertaining.
I would argue that only Belos is intended as a Villan. The rest are just antagonists. There is a difference there. Antagonists oppose the goals of the protagonist, but don't necessarily care that much about what the audience or protagonists are invested in. What makes a villain a villain is wanting to destroy or reshape everything the protagonists (and by extension) the audience is invested in. Even the coven heads weren't like pure evil, they thought they were bringing paradise to the Boiling Isles
Odalia is not in the top 5 of this list. This is a major issue.
9:42 this is the case with my fav villain ever too. Gonna be vague for spoilers but after 3 books of her being an absolute mental unit (she isn't physically powerful but her strength comes from in planning and manipulation abilities) she has the subject if her renege at her mercy and all she needs to do is kill him.
But she literally has too much fun torturing him that she accidentally gives rhe good guys time to find and save him. And even then she's smart enough to cut her losses and slip away.
Animorphs?
@@theratking3075 nope
@@AtomBacon
Drat.
I completely agree with everything on this list, kikimora was meant to be the sad “villain” in order to make us feel bad for her as for her possibly upcoming redemption ark just like hunter except hunter made it look better than what kikimora did as he wasn’t a complete pushover. Belos and the collector did what they were meant to do. I am really excited for season 3 even the little bits we will be getting just to see how this story will end with the collector, king, kikimora, terra, and of course belos.
4:15 Thank you, I've been saying it for months. They redeemed Lilith too quickly it feels like they went from Separate Tides 'We don't fully trust Lilith yet' to Escaping Expulsion 'Look at our adorkable teacher's pet Lilith'.
You're very correct about mysterious equals scary. Just look how everyone reacted to "creepy Luz" when she was first introduced. Then it became "save the scalie!" when creepy Luz was introduced as Vee. A character that's third only to Hooty and King in my opinion.
THAT TWO FACED LINE TOO
Hunter in my opinion isnt a villian and more likely antihero in the beginning
I have a potential theory for "The Owl House," could Luz (and humans in general) possibly be something of an amplifier for magic cast by witches? The reason I bring this up is because some of the most impressive feats (outside of Eda's) were performed with Luz either being directly involved or in close proximity to the spell being cast. Do you find this theory plausible or am I just finding something where there is nothing?
26:09 "Sometimes you just need to let them stare into the dark a bit, and let them imagine what lurks inside..." Can we just take a moment to talk about how well he delivered that line? Chills.
CHARACTERIZATION IS BACK!!
Kikimora is voiced by Mela Lee and thus is automatically upgraded to at least a B-tier villain
your takes never miss. love ur videos ! keep up the good work
Foku! I love that vines in the owl house animatic you did lol
Thank you so much! I love your work too so it means a lot to read your comment! 😊
I loved the comparison of Hunter and Zuko
I want more scenes of the healing and potions coven heads. They have some of my favorite designs!
I think another reason Belos is such a scary villain is because of how historic witch hunting itself is. Most villains we see are more fictional like with Ursula, Scar, Hades, and so on. While with Belos being a witch hunter and knowing the dark history that surrounds them makes them that more terrifying. You know what they are willing to do.
I in fact live very close to Salem and if you know salem you’ll know that famous witch trials. So when I heard that Belos was a witch hunter it actually freaked me out.
It’s also the reason that Frollo from The Hunchback of Notre-dome is terrifying. He is literally the dark side of religion.
IDK maybe it’s just me but I always found villains that come from dark history as more terrifying.
By the start of the show, Belos already has a kill count likely in the dozens due to his past as a witch hunter. His motive is also literal genocide.
@@a-rat-in-your-walls yeah we see later in season 2 that he’s killed lots of people even in the Isles. Who knows about back at home too.
I don't know why people didn't see right away that belos were a human when eda's mom revealed that there were another human, and didn't correlate that someone from 3 centuries before and is bad is a witch hunter in disguise
Just took the polls
My ideas for season 3
Luz uses a Round Boy to trap the collector but at the last minuet redeems him with friendship and he returns to his family
Luz feels she has to save the day on her own and tries to leave the group
Luz's mom adopts Huntter and accepts Luz has to leave
Luz finds a natural way back to the Demon Relm but it takes world travel and or a time sensitive action forcing her to wait
references to fan memes
Gus sees a whale
Hunter feeds a flock of Earth Birds
Some one dies or dies and comes back or is assumed dead but not dead , likely a Plainsmen or Huntter
Vee explains that Luz and her self are Cousins as a cover story
Illusions and shape shifting will be key
Willow becomes sad around Halloween Witches but really enjoys Pumpkins
The Owl House Game will be like Wanda Vision or Squid Games ... move along home
They should just take gus to the zoo he could see giraffes
@@thatgayflareon they do! It was shown in the trailer
even if the collector is definitely an antagonist, they’re not really a villain? his past actions did impact a lot of the current narrative in the present but they also have no real malicious intent. they’re like flowey undertale but without the trauma. very excited for how the show is going to deal with them and everything surrounding his past
"effectively slaughtered along with Caleb"
damn bro, no hesitation, flex tape will not fix that
Belos reminds me of growing up watching Avatar and how Ozai felt as a kid. Terrifying and just plane evil. No redemtion and Belos is giving the same energy and i love it.
Surprised you didn’t mention Amity’s mom.
“No relevancy to the overall plot”
Waching and dreaming;”I don’t think so.”
I really wonder how many of these issues cropped up from them losing a season and which were actual issues
Well Terra's story line was going somewhere before the season 3 cut
Having a good villain is just as important as having a good protagonist in my opinion which makes me grateful for how good the villains became. Its amazing just how much it threw me off who the big villain would be because I was convinced Belos wasn't the big bad so he subverted expectations. If you're curious who else I thought would be the big bad in order of most to least likely
1) Terra
2) Kikimora
3) Odalia
4) The Collector
Now I know Belos is obviously the big bad now but I find it ironic that who I thought would be the least likely is now a big one too just not Belos level
In the Lilith section, you mention that they were short on time and, to be very honest, they were 100%, completely and totally short on time, and you're absolutely right, but the thing is, at the time of Lilith's redemption arc, The Owl House was still under threat of being cancelled, which makes it a bit harder to add in some crucial character development. I absolutely agree, it was very rushed, but you have to weigh in the fact that it could have been cancelled right then and there, and that very real threat of cancellation proved to be true, which is why we're only getting 3 episodes in season 3
None of the villain were enough to make me think they were actually a threat until i rewatched and analyses the show then i saw how deep it goes thus Enzo Gabriel seeming so terrifying cuz of the season two end
Show don’t tell stuff
WHERE IS ODALIA BLIGHT?!?
it’s not just to make the emperor proud, he’s completely terrified of him. traumatized. I feel like it’s so clear belos has put his hands on hunter in the past
When it comes to TOH, they did their villains justice and very well.
Starting with Lilith, I like that she was never really a villain. Sure she did bad stuff, but it was always with the intent of saving her sister. Her redemption sadly had to be rushed cause of the cancellation, but the shortened season 3 and jam packed s2 may have actually done her justice. Cause with that shortened time, they did EVERYTHING they could to make her redemption believable. Eda teasing her in s2 ep1 leading to Eda and Lilith being closer then ever by kings tide as Eda promised Lilith she’ll be back.
Hunter meanwhile is similar to Lilith. He never really is a villain. Now he doesn’t have a better motive, as his motive is always centered around helping Belos for approval.
But nonetheless he IS like only 16 so that’s not too shocking. And his redemption is done WONDERFULLY
This Channel really is the deffinion of "worth the wait"
I mean the only true villain is belos, the other "villain's" were misguided by him and led down the tracks that they were. In which as the story unfolded, you slowly but surely see that their simply not villain's, but misguided people that are following what is essentially a false prophet. So in truth they more than likely wouldn't or doing what they are before the day of unity, given they were led onto believe their deplorable actions would lead them to a huge reward in the end. Which was power, wealth and possibly their wildest wishes coming true. Belos, or Phillip is a good liar and story teller in the end, and the only villain is simply him and maybe the collector, given the collector reads as a young child that is still learning right and wrong in terms of morality and the like.
I dunno, trying to mind control someone into serving you is still kinda evil even if you're doing it cause a dude in mask ppromised you paradise.
@@sarafontanini7051 I mean their not all clear of their wrong doings, yet if Philip hadn't risen to power then they more than likely wouldn't have done what they did.
Emperor bellows has similar, although less intense, energy as the Nowhere King from centaur world
For shame, you didn't include our stray cat's squeak of defeat, only the visual of it
I love Hunter mainly because he's a fanboy at heart. Yeah, he's a villain but he's misunderstood
IM SO EXITED!!! I missed your videos!
Missed you too hehe 😁
@@Kasrium AWEEEE
I love so so so so sooo much that you actually use he AND they for the collector. It is very much seen and appreciated
Bruh, you missed why his 'few on-screen moments' made him so terrifying in season 1.
Owl House did Such a good job worldbuilding the boiling isles. And there is Never an episode that goes by where you don't feel his grip on the population. His guards wear his cloak and mask. His buildings (castle and jail) have a white-gold-burgandy motif that reflects him. The coven system is completely his doing, and it's built right into what's taught to school children. And of course, how much he has twisted society into seeing 'wild magic users' as pariahs.
His mark is everywhere, his presence is inescapable. Everyone instinctively knows how dangerous Emperor Belos is without him even setting foot in the room or uttering a word. And when he did, everything he did lived up to that unspoken level of insidiousness.
“I’m starting to think that I wasn’t really good at my job”
-cool aunt lily
Ok uhm this is important. It’s about amity’s necklace. Maybe it’s a callback to the collecter? Maybe it’s foreshadowing that she’ll get possessed? It changes by the time of day so we know that it has SOME sort of movement. It could be traumatic which I think it’s why she’s not wearing it. Also here’s another theory, if there is a portal on the demon realm leading to the human realm shouldn’t there be a portal on earth leading to the demon realm?. If so id say Phillip already found it but maybe forgotten it in the human realm. Also big issue with king. He has the ability to travel through realms. Why not take advantage of that? Luz knew he was a titan and probably her only way back home.
I’d honestly love to hear your opinion on some of these and maybe add to some of them ^^ I don’t mind if you want to make an analysis video on some of these and I’d love to hear your thoughts and comments of these
I love how the kids react when the Collector shows up and instantly bodies Belos. They're all expecting a rough fight, maybe even getting ready to die at Belos' hand, and out comes a kid in pyjamas who twiddles a finger and turns the bad guy into a puddle of goop. I'd be rooted to the spot in terror too!
kikimora- best villian? no
best villian character? yes.
she is adorable and deserves hugs.
THAT'S how talk about a he/they character. 10/10 video
What if Belos secretly delivered the curse instructions to Lilith?
The problem with Lilith doesn't come from the fact that she wasn't a compelling villain. It's because she wasn't a compelling character overall. If you take a deeper look at her you quickly realize that the writers had no idea what to do with her, to begin with.
"Covention" is a fun episode, but I find it annoying that it introduced Lilith as Amity's mentor and then just...moved on.
I mean, Lilith refers to Amity as "my strongest protege, " yet after that, they're never shown interacting again. Neither of them brings up that fact either. (And I bet most fans even forgot that was a plot point.)
Lilith herself said that she was "mentoring the next generation of powerful witch students" so you'd expect her to at least be brought every now and then when it came to Amity and how powerful she is, but that's the thing. It is only brought up in "Covention".
After that, they don't say anything to or about each other ever again. No interactions. Nada. All we get is a lil moment in "Agony of a witch" where Amity looks at a poster of Lilith and says "Shut up" but that's about it.
When Amity is learning how to use a fire spell with the twins at the Knee, no one brings up Lilith, her mentor, in any way shape, or form. Not even a "she's busy with coven head stuff" or "she's trying to catch the Owl Lady"
Nothing. A simple "Lilith wants the whole 'cheating' situation from the Covention to die down a bit so she decided it would be better if she stopped mentoring me for a while" would've been enough, but nope. Not even Amity's parents bring her up which is odd. You'd think Odalia would mention her daughter's Head-Of-The-Emperor-Coven mentor since she wanted her to be in that coven so badly but she doesn't.
Lilith stated that she probably "wasn't very good at her job" which I feel might explain a lot about her character, but it won't change my mind that they really underutilized her. When it comes to the Day of Unity she is never brought up. She is the ex-coven head of the Emperor's coven and yet there was no reference to her being asked about anything.
I think the writers wanted to be subtle and maybe build up her character slowly, but because season 3 was cut short and because they had no idea what Disney would do with their show after season 1, they just decided to leave her character where it was.
After all, they already resolved the conflict between her and Eda in the season 1 finale so it would seem like a fair decision to push her character to the side in favor of fleshing out everyone else while they still have time with season 2. And they did.
But I began to think about what they might have wanted to do with Lilith and how they were going to explore her character in the end. After re-watching "Hollow Mind" I think I figured it out a bit.
And it all has to do with the Golden Guard.
What if being the "Emperor Coven head" wasn't that important, to begin with? What if Belos just gave Lilith that position because he killed the previous Golden Guard and just needed a quick replacement while he created a new Grimwalker?
I assume Hunter and every GG before him were always meant to have that role since it's just being Belos' righthand man. Thus he made Lilith a coven head for the time being since not only was she related to the Owl Lady (who had the portal to the human realm) but because he probably remembered her from the past (when she broke his nose) and wanted to keep her in check.
The emperor coven is the only coven that didn't have a part to play during the Day of Unity after all.
If you take all of that into account, then you've got an easy explanation for everything weird about Lilith's character:
1) why she still has her staff (you're not allowed to have one if you're in the emperor's coven)
2) why she was reduced to just "mentoring the next generation of powerful witches";
3) why her only task besides that was to just capture Eda;
4) why she sucked at almost every task she was given;
4) why she was kept in the dark about everything;
5) why Belos didn't hesitate to make Hunter a coven head the moment Lilith betrayed him;
(and a little bonus one but "Why we never see a coven sigil on Lilith's wrist" which I would chalk up to "animation error" but it happened during an entire episode where she was the focus and I already pointed out that the writers didn't care about her so)
I've finally found someone who has a similar opinion of villains being my favorite character then the actual heros a wide variety of shows
The music in this video probably made Belos creepier for me. LOL
2:18 because even when Dana was told Season 3 was cut short, she still refused to replace Hunter with better characters.
i firmly believe that all of these villain problems would be so much better if TOH wasn't cancelled midway through
And to his dying breath he didn’t understand how hypocritical he was. Telling Luz that they are better because they are human, while he is a pile of talking sludge and Luz is literally half Titan!
What if king never had a dad? Instead titans reincarnate like the immortals jellyfish of our world, turning back into a baby and leaving most of their bodies behind in the process. This means king never had a family (born with magic) or has not had one in many many years.
Stop, I'll cry
What about the roar King heard when he was in his egg? The poster in Titan Trapper Island about the lost son of the Boiling Isles?
@@seaslug9144 could have been a creature the collector sent to kill king. Or perhaps there were others of his kind but they weren't related. I dunno know that you say it there are lots of holes
@@ReimaginedSkies speaking of the Collector, they mentioned how King looks just like the titan who trapped him in the mirror, even calling him "his little titan baby". Also, how would the egg be put so far away from the boiling isles if it was created during the death of the old body?
@@snailshell8552 completely true I think you are right. I'll leave the comment up just bc I think it is an interesting idea even if I don't think it is a plausible theory anymore.
Could be interesting for an au maybe
I noticed while rewatching the show that Lilith, hunter and kikimora at some point in the show all say "I can't go back empty handed, not again"
Do with this what you will
Disney handicapped themselves with this show
Both Lus and Belos being humans who lost themselves in this world makes for such a compelling story
I swear, if I picked a favorite character I’d pick Amity, yet if I had to pick a character that was/is a villain I’d pick Hunter! They’re both just so damn relatab- I- *is this bad that I relate to the two smartest characters with the worst mental health?*
Naaaah... it's fiiiine
I don't know, because I'm in the same situation as you, friend.
"My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined"
I see what you did there lol
I was excited to watch this tonight but tomorrow works
Done, tonight it is. Video premieres in about an hour 👍
@@Kasrium whoa, thanks 😃 have just enough time to make popcorn