Does vinyl sound better than CD?
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- čas přidán 2. 05. 2024
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Which do you prefer, the sound of a vinyl record or that of a CD? It is a topic that has spurred many a heated debate…
While we won’t argue your preference, when discussing which format sounds better from a technical perspective, there is a clear winner.
In today’s video, Disc Makers CEO Tony van Veen discusses which format delivers superior sound by addressing a number of key factors, including:
- Dynamic range
- Volume
- Bass
- Analog warmth
- Player environment
- Wear
If you’re an artist interested in sounding your best on physical media, you’ll want to check it out.
Still not sure if you want to put out your music on CD or Vinyl? Why not give your fans both!
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I spent $75,000 on my turntable. I gotta tell you all the crackles and pops sound amazingly clear now.
What a complete waste of money!!
Yep! All that dosh to spin a bit of noisy plastic.
I think he is joking guys.
🤣🤣🤣
My experience as being a sound-engineer for 35 years make me totally agree - but I still love the LP format :-)
I purchased the SONY CDP-101 in 1983, it is still in working order.
I've loved the CD format ever since and the SACD!
I don't know why someone would chase the "analog" sound when:
All the vinyl releases after 1980 done by major mastering facilities, were using Vinyl cutting gear with pre-listen Head (like Studer A80 or Neumann VMS-80).
This means the signal was converted to digital and back to analog. So, after this year, no more 100% analog releases.
And last, but not least, so many famous albums were recorded on digital machines (like Sony PCM 3324 launched in 1982), then digitally mastered, just to be pressed on vinyl.
I don't think that is entirely true because I saw someone on CZcams measiring the frequency response of a vinyl record made after 1980 and it was showing a frequency response of up to 60khz. That is way beyond what a CD can do.
on some vocal jazz albums that pre-echo is absolute magical sounding.
Well done, Tony. You've pointed out enough facts about the advantages of the CD format, so as to point out the illogical choice of going with vinyl. Nostalgia is vinyl's biggest selling point.
Nostalgia and the damn LOUDNESS WAR MASTERING on compact discs !! And that crap is still far away from being over !!
@@lucalone Yes, indeed: Loudness wars. It's just so absurd. But, you know who is driving this loudness war: The consumer. Musically ignorant consumers, really feel the beat, first. If the beat is loud then they percieve it as attractive. Most people respond in a sensory way first, and an intellectual way second. Adding to this is, the customer doesn't want to become more sophisticated in his listening skills. They simply want something that they can wiggle their a$$es to, or sing along with, or both. The bar is low (hence The Rolling Stones.) Dynamics in music, with lots of current pop music seems to be a lost concept. Record companies are in the business of making money, not really selling art (unless both of these happen to coincide.) This is different, to some degree, when actual musicians, were the executives of record companies. Louder CDs simply sell. And that's good enough for the record company execs and those who follow their ways.
@@KenTeel You can buy fairly cheap CDs from the late 80's and thru the 90's that aren't brick wall mastered. Yes in new releases digital is often inferior to vinyl due to the crazy watering that has become standard. I refer the sound of CD myself.
@@MrChrisWhitten OK, Chris, thanks for the response. This is timely. A friend of mine told me that my recordings are clear as a bell. I thought: No way. Then I strapped on a pair of Sony 7506 headphones, and sure enough, the recording that he referred to is very clear. It's the limitation of my multimedia speakers that was adding some distortion I have recently auto mastered some of my stuff through a computer based mastering service. I'm comming to the conclusion that mastering is required to make up for the inefficiencies of people car stereos, living room stereos, etc. My recording sounded better, after mastering, only because of the limitation of my speakers. Through good headphones, the unmastered sounded better. I mastered at -15 LUF in order to leave plenty of headroom for dynamics. I'm not into the volume wars, either.
If brick and mortar stores refuse to stock CDs and stubbornly just sell vinyl, more people are forced to buy the garbage because THEY HAVE NO CHOICE. ITS ALSO THE MUSIC INDUSTRY BEHIND THIS SHIT.
For me it is Compact Disc for the sound, vinyl records for the ritual. Both formats are nostalgic to me.
Vinyl is actually good for nothing, btw don't call it vinyl record it's just vinyl
@@mafi211
There's nothing wrong calling vinyl records the vinyl records dude .. after all the vinyl is the kind of the material , by my opinion vinyl reord is a completed phrase than just vinyl .
Anyway have a happy new year and happy listenings .
I hear lots of folks talk about the “ritual” around playing a record that adds to the experience and make records better than CDs.
I sheepishly admit, i don’t understand to what this refers.
If this means the action of playing a record (this is what i assume is referred to), then how does that differ from the ritual playing a CD?
Would be glad to hear your thought on what the ritual means and what makes it special.
@@mikewinburnwhen they say ritual , they prob mean , putting the vinyl on , wiping and cleaning it down before playing , anti static brush etc. not just putting the lp on
@@pillitoes2961- thanks for your insight, partner.
In the 90s, when CDs were a big item, along with audiophile CDs magazines, one could find the disc cleaners, brushes, polishers… practically everything one did with records, it was sold and marketed as valuable for quality listening sessions with C’s as well.
So given your excellent reply, I might venture to guess the “ritual” is the same for both audiophile camps - those with vinyl collections and those with optical collections.
Just seems the vinyl crew weren’t or aren’t aware that the optical crew still maintain the very same ritual.
You nailed the problem with vinyl: there are too many variables which can cost a lot to get right. For CD playback you do need to purchase a good DAC and then connect it to any old disc player that has a coax output. Done.
Yup... all the media's have positives and negatives. I usually buy the physical media that's least expensive (as long as the record isn't in horrible shape)
"Warm Sound"
Hi everybody and thank you very much for this REALLY competent and objective explanation on that subject. Having Engineered and being present at countless Final Record cuttings since the early 70ies I can only appreciate this post. Obviously I was part of the whole Digital Recording Process as well. In addition to this post, I would like to mention the situation of the High Frequencies, which are also part of the "Warm Sound" experience. Equal to the situation of the Low End, the Analog/Tape Recordings roll off significantly at 16 KHz. Digital Conversion easily handles 40KHz and above. When we try to listen to a "Dog Whistle" which is above 23 KHz we can't hear it. However it's there and it makes us uncomfortable. In music terms high frequencies even above our hearing capabilities can be used to produce excitement. Now if we understand the limitations of the Analog Audio Recording and consequently Vinyl Sound, We can make a Digital Recording sound very, very similar to the Warm Sound of an Analog Medium. While at the beginning of the Digital Recordings, there was a well founded critic of the Sound Quality at the time.These days however our Digital Converters and the Dynamic Range have being developed to a level, very, very few Golden Years claim to hear the difference. Another Aspect would be the Phase Relationship in a Stereo Recording between Left and Right. A Vinyl Cutting won't allow "Out of Phase" music, or the needle would dive and consequently jump. Digital Recordings allows this to happen but is not pleasing (Warm Sounding) in my opinion.
All that said, I still offer a complete Analog Chain Recording and Mixing in my Studio and I love it ha, ha, ha.... Besides to have only 24 Tracks versus 100's of tracks is very challenging and can support creativity and excitement in the Music. Good Recording to all of you ❤
excellent points - and I'll add that another variation is channel separation. in the Digital world - at every level - the left/right channels are purely discreet (meaning there is no unintended bleed between channels. They are separated by an untraversable digital wall), whereas - in a vinyl setup - you need a REALLY good stylus to keep down the crosstalk - and you also have to pay special attention to making sure that your speakers aren't on the same surface as your turntable (a common mistake) or you will start bleeding even worse. It took me years to realize I needed to have every part of the signal chain physically decoupled from each other. Having said that - once you get it right - it does sound phenomenal.
As I mentioned above, vinyl can surpass digital - but it takes a LOT of money and work to do it.
Actually, vinyl has been shown to output frequencies of 50khz and higher. CDs can only output up to 22khz.
@@buckdown4104😅😊
@@dtz1000Yes and the drastic low pass filtering needed to enable this 22khz cut off, leaves nasty artefacts (aliasing) audible in the high end of CD audio. That’s what makes listening to CDs tiring and essential annoying. You can’t get away from it. It’s makes me feel uneasy!! A well recorded, mastered and pressed vinyl record, will alway beat a CD for me, noise floor and all!! I have demonstrated this to many non-believers over the years and they all had to admit they they preferred the sound of vinyl.
@@dtz1000 Theoretically, a 'pop' from an LP can output an enormous frequency range.
I tend to listen to vinyl when listening actively, cd and digital for passive listening. Both serve a valuable purpose- to perpetuate love for the beautiful gift of music!
You got it the wrong way round.
My favourite element of vinyl is cover art.
I've been digital since 86. The only albums I own are for wall art, or ones that were never made available digitally.
I'm glad I ran across your video. I have nothing against vinyl, I grew up listening to vinyl. But, since 1983-84, I've gone the cd route, at first because I had no choice. Where I grew up, record stores stopped stocking vinyl records. As you have pointed out, cd's don't wear out, and they don't skip, hiss, or pop. Of course, there are faulty cd's, like anything else made in the world. Something else I like about cd's is that I can program them. If I wish to listen to tracks 1, 4, 7, 9 on a record, it's easily done. As I said, vinyl was what I listened to growing up, so I've no problem with it, what bugs me, however, is the attitude of some people, definitely not all, in the vinyl community who seem to look down their nose at cd's and those who collect them. I don't get it, but I see it. Anyway, I'm glad to know that cd's actually sound pretty good, I can rest easy now.
this video was very informative, thank you for uploading!
Thanks much Tony; this confirmed what I have believed because my ears told me so. It's great to have the technical facts to support our preferences. Your video greatly appreciated!
Thanks. You have covered all the aspects in the comparison.
Great video, Tony! Very informative.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge, I found this valuable.
Perfectly said! I have bought a LOT of vinyl records in my life.... and they were charming and wonderful in their day. In fact I have 2 Magnavox console stereos from the year 1968... so I have some vintage vinly I keep with them just to play on the Micromatic turntables. However, in 1986 I went all out and bought my first CD deck for 370. A lot of money now, but A LOT more back then.... and the reason was because I could not stand those "ticks" and "pops". So I have over 300 CDs, but now only have a couple of dozen vinyl albums and those are only for nostalgia, not serious listening. THANKS for your incredible video which gives me a TON of useful arguments why I love my CDs. Especially helpful was the reminder that if a record is made from a digital source, it can't possibly be smoother than the digital master. Makes SO much sense. Thank you!
All I want to say is the most gut wrenching Bass I have ever heard is of J S Bach Toccata and Fugue on Cassette - so the recording/Mastering also play's a huge part.
Vinyl is different from CD but both Vinyl and CDs are now considered old hat and cassettes dinosaurs - yet I gain huge pleasure from all these formats. I like to own the hard copy and hardware that will play it - digital streaming is evolving but as corporations see ways of wiping out your music by withholding licences for a particular codecs or discontinuing access to a loved streaming service - my hard copy material is playable even if I have to stoke my wood fired generator to get the electricity. I like ownership and control - so hard core old school it may be but consider how LP,s were first introduced in 1949 and still going - nothing beats the best.
Thank you for the excellent analysis! I
I’m back into vinyl after chasing the digital carrot for 35 years.
Music is back in my life like being a teenager again.
This is no surprise to me as CDs and other low quality digital files do not include the ultrasonic frequencies that are emitted by musical instruments. Vinyl does include those frequencies which have been shown to be important.
Everyone has an opinion which is better vinyl or CD. Everyone can have their own opinion but actually the best quality will always be reel to reel despite how ridiculously expensive the tapes are ($400 for a 50 year old Kiss album recently on eBay. That is just nuts.)
@@dtz1000😂😂😂 Ya gotta love sarcasm!
@@djshineboy Where's the sarcasm?
@@dtz1000 I don’t even go there 😂 Vinyl vs CD is like Android vs Apple…
The problem is "better" is always subjective. Some folks like more dynamics, some folks like less; some folks like more highs/treble, some folks like more mids and lows. When folks say they like the sound of vinyl more, it can mean LOTS of different things: they like the compressed dynamic range, the needle induced snaps, crackles, and pops, the lack of higher frequencies...all of that totally depending on individual preference.
Bottom line is: if a clearer, more accurate reproduction of the original sound is "better", then CDs are demonstrably better.
Wow what a great explanation! This is the exact answer I was looking for. I have been using my Bose portable speaker for the longest time and the other day decided to use my old CD player and I was blown away at the quality of sound vs my Spotify song sounds. Thank you for this video!
I am a product of the 70s and i was a venyl player operator at a young age of 5 , love the 45s back then. Cassette, and Cd came soon and was a hit. Yes i believe nostalgia is the reason we love sticking to antiquated technology etc.
Great video. The best explanation on the tube🎉
Great presentation, Tony. You convinced me that CD's have a better sound without offending my love for my 55 year collection of over 1400 vinyl records!
I still prefer vinyl
Yes, vinyl is still better than CDs.
Cds Rule
Sound quality is a subjective matter. Your ears will tell you what kind your prefer, and wont need someone else to tell you what you should like.
The CD is noise while vinyl is quite 😂
Thank you 👍🏼
Thanks for your videos Tony
I’ll take a laser reading a cd flawlessly over a needle being dragged across vinyl, picking up the sound of every speck of dust that may lay in its path, any day.
It's not flawless if it doesn't include the ultrasonic frequencies that are emitted by real musical instruments. That's why CD was flawed from the beginning. It doesn't include those frequencies, but vinyl does.
What I have found as a new experience with vinyl is that I feel I need to most-likely spend a lot more than I would want to get the sound quality I achieve with my digital setup. I have about a 20K digital setup excluding the amplifier and I spent roughly 3500 on a vinyl setup and I don’t feel it sounds “better” in any way, different definitely but, not better. Turntables of quality are EXPENSIVE, cartridges of quality are EXPENSIVE then you need a capable phono pre-amp for usually that moving coil cartridge to get it up to snuff.
@guillermomartin8248 3500 for a turntable set up sounds wildly expensive. A second hand SL-1200 can be had for $500 and turntables doesn't get much better than that. A good Technics direct drive is basically just as good as the cutting machine, so while there are better speced spinners out there it really don't matter in practice. Also, you're right. A $50 CD-player easily beats the best/most expensive vinyl rig on the planet when it comes to fidelity.
Tony, your presentation here is excellently done and accurate. Adding my two-cents, perhaps the warmth listeners sense is the noise floor of the vinyl. Or, maybe listener opinion of a song played on vinyl may also be colored by the "warm" blank sound after needle drop and prior to song. That "floor" is maintained mentally throughout the music. Idk, just a thought.
I am almost 61 now, and bought a great turntable some 5 years ago after only listening to digital since 1990. Reason: It brings me back to my younger days. Pure nostalgy. Vinyl can never beat high quality digital audio when you have a good DAC. Spending several thousands of dollars on an "exclusive" turntable and pick-up cartridge is nothing but madness.
CD is superior to vinyl in every possible way
Apart from longevity.
No my friend, no
I own thousands of both formats and Cd's have many more advantages over Vinyl.
Selection, Cost, Booklets, Longevity, much quieter, far superior Dynamic Range and other advantages. You are not a true Musiv fan if you do not embrace all Music formats.
@@georgebertozzi8267 I will agree to almost everything except longevity. Vinyl surpasses lifespan by a large margin if taken care of. And the booklet element is subjective. I own both formats (mostly CDs) but I’ll spend more time reading and admiring an LP gatefold than a CD booklet. But that’s purely personal.
@@gpapa31CD booklets are absolutely fine, but if I want to read I will get a book, longevity and vinyl? What a joke 😂😂😂
Thank you for settling it. This is a technological difference Analog vs Digital
Hi Tony I am so glad to have came across your wonderful presentation of CD V Vinyl. I am just about to delve back into to the rabbit hole of home music systems and formats. Ive not played vinyl for over 30 years, then had a decent collection of CDs, and recent times inhabited the Dark Side of streaming. I've recently been researching the latest turntables amplifiers...???? speakers etc. I was always under the impression that record always beat CD sound quality hands down !!! I also loved the look of some of the striking turntables available, but as I thought more of practical differences .... storage , PRICE etc I'm so glad that I have watched your video. CDs will suffice for my untrained but appreciative ear. Many thanks for sorting me out. 😀😀
2nd-3rd harmonic distortion on vinyl adds to the lovely colourations and most vinyl LP production is mastered on digital processing, so this in the purest sense isn't derived from analog.
Vinyl reminds my childhood and today I feel my past while listen to vinyl which CD does not have any emotions attached to. I listen both vinyl and CD but feel better with vinyl. Once I used to listen to cassette and vinyl but again vinyl gave me far more satisfaction than I got from cassette. I understand CDs are far better media but I love vinyl. Thanks.
Great video. Lots of good points raised. As an owner of thousands of both Vinyl and CD and having worked in both Analog and Digital formats, I can say that there are far more advantages to Cd's than Vinyl. Even Hi-Res files are great! Your listening experience is personal but Cd's have a far greater selection of music in all decades. Vinyl stopped being readily available after the big Digital overhaul in the 90's. Cd's last longer, are portable, much quieter, you can clone them and they are far cheaper with far greater liner notes and multi page booklets.
A good DAC upgrades the CD and Remastered CD's often contain bonus tracks that cannot be fitted onto a vinyl record without badly affecting audio quality.
I love both fornats because it's all about the MUSIC, but building the mother of all Rock Collections is far better with CD's!
Bang on. This argument that vinyl sounds better has endured, in spite of all evidence to the contrary. I love my LP's, but I'm under no illusions that they sounds better than my CDs.
Aside from what you’ve mentioned, Tony, you’ve got the individual’s ‘listening ability’ for lack of a better term. As I have learned to hear more details in audio reproduction, I notice things now that I didn’t when I started listening to music. I think this adds to someone’s preferences which, as you’ve mentioned, figures into what format a person prefers. Well presented as always. Thanks!
True, though that probably applies equally to records and CDs. Another thing I didn’t delve deeply into is the social aspect of listening. Listening to vinyl records, with the ritual of sliding the record out of the jacket and the sleeve, placing it on the turntable, dropping the stylus, and flipping the record over after 20 minutes, had become almost a tiny bit of performance art while hanging with friends. This is perhaps one of the most fun and engaging parts of listening to records.
@@tonyvv : Yes, the album jacket perusal is one thing I miss the most. That was a standard activity for me with new records. I’d read everything on the jacket while listening for the first time. One of the items in my ritual (which I don’t miss at all) was getting out my Discwasher brush & fluid to clean the vinyl before each play. This started in tandem with my Audio magazine subscription. They had one particular article about what happens to the vinyl when played which was co-authored with Audio Technical. I never played an album after that without cleaning it.😀
Tony somehow when I listen to vinyls of music recorded in 70’s and early 80’s they sound better on Vinyl than CDs than the music recorded nowadays on Vinyl. What you think?
Quite possible. For starters it’s a 100% analog production, from multi-tracking to your turntable. Plus, maybe, the nostalgia factor of those old records?
I use a Maverick Tube DAC, which adds some 'warmth' back in. Either my direct CD or Lossless cuts sound great. I feed this into my SONOS system. works for me. Great Video
This is excellently and irrefutably presented, Mr van Veen, thank you. I have and still will occasionally purchase vinyl but digital is how I record and release music and it is undeniably the more robust medium. I sure do love full size vinyl album covers, tho, a big part of collecting music has gone missing since there is no need for the kind of artistic presentation album design used to offer.
Thank you for your detailed analysis. Human beings often rely on the phenomenon of "confirmation bias", which would be holding pre-conceived notions of how something "ought to be" and then mentally "confirming" that expectation while actually experiencing something, such as playback of a vinyl LP record. Speaking of this, a major anniversary in the industry occurred earlier this year which was ignored by the vinyl LP industry: June marked the 75th anniversary of the vinyl LP record! I think a few veteran album collectors were aware of this historic anniversary, but the industry apparently was not. Go figure!
My friend spent on HIFI line, he spent about 300-600 USD per unit on Streamer, turntable, speaker, DAC, amplifier... He has new and old pressed records. We listened to the records, they sounded nice, but the sound was still not the real thing, I thought that the speaker was the weak link When I switched to the Streamer, we listened to music from Tidal, everything that was missing until then appeared, as if the whole system had changed, there was a dynamic , life, deep voice.
Thank you for the nicely collected thoughts!
Vynil and valve amplification, in a analogue setup, is simply a magical experience 👌
Nobody is going to mention harmonics?
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for doing this video. Thank you for the facts explained without too many scientific jargons. This is my go-to for explaining vinyl and cds. 4 thumbs up.
thank you !
I have the following meaning about vinyl (which I shamelessly borrowed from »Darko Audio« here at CZcams). But it's soooo true:
I love EVRYTHING about vinyl except the sound.
I recall the first time I heard a demo of a CD player in the early 80s. It was a stunning experience. What was stunning was the fact that there was almost dead silence and then the music started. I was so accustomed to the hiss of the stylus in the groove before the music started. I was sold on CDs and it had nothing to do with other superior technical aspects of CD vs LP. To not hear that hiss was all I needed to be convinced. The salesman doing the demo showed me the CD before he put it in the player. It was significantly scratched, on purpose as part of the demo, yet it played perfectly. In a higher end CD player, scratched media will still play perfectly. By 'higher end', I don't mean a multi-thousand dollar unit; just a quality player.
CDs will never compete with LPs with respect to album covers.
I put a record under my USB microscope. It was very interesting to see the dust. I used Elmer's glue to remove the dust. It worked well. I also noticed that the bass notes moved the track perfectly side to side which I soon realized means that the bass is mono on a record. The groove depth only changes a very very tiny amount that my microscope can't really resolve but the side to side motion is large from the bass. Between the mono bass, the constant surface noise and the compression required to make the needle stay tracking and not jumping over the grooves records are far from CD for fidelity, but they are kind of fun to own and play.
Thank you, Tony. This helped me decide whether or not to get a turntable. I won't. My chief concern has been with archiving and preservation, and nothing beats digital for that. I would still love to know more about psycho-acoustics, that is, what happens in the brain after the sound wave is converted from mechanical to electric. Something must be compensating for the voids (real silences) between samples. Anyway, I liked this video a lot and will put it in one of my playlists.
I went to a very hi end audio show and vinyl was the dominant source medium.
Vinyls are still cool af though. If you have the money to invest in a turntable setup, it’s still amazing for music lovers. CDs just give you an as good, if not better, music listening experience for a fifth of the price.
There are no "voids" or "silences" between samples. Absolutely ridiculous idea!
I prefer vinyl. That said, your video is on point. These are the facts. Like what you want. That's what I do.😊
I started collecting records in 1972 and unlike many people I know from that era, I kept mine. When I play them, it’s an emotional connection. It’s like getting into a time machine and going back to that time in my life. Some of the sound quality still remains but even after thorough cleaning, there is still some noise. I have some newer records too and it isn’t as much of an issue. I also have several cd’s I started collecting when they were first introduced. I play them occasionally. But these days I’m probably 80% streaming. IMO with a good quality streamer and DAC playing full cd quality or higher. It’s a great way to enjoy music. No other format lets you build playlists on the fly. Just my .02
Same thing I said when I learned how to set up turntables a couple decades ago.
Then got rid of all my CDs
But hey
Music is soooo subjective that saying one is better than the other it’s kind of insane
What I love when I play records is the output potency, sounds powerful even on a lower volume but digital sounds a little muffed like and weak so I always turn up the volume much higher.
Well explained, thank you. Now I don't have to argue anymore, just send a link to your video. The secret is to multitrack in Pro Tools (or whatever), and mix down to an analog one inch two track. You didn't kill yourself (and wear out the tape) doing analog multitrack, and have a big transient analog 2 track mix to make a CD from. Another gem for sound quality with CDs ids HDCD.
The biggest selling point for me personally for Vinyl is that its a physical piece of art. You can ofcourse say the same about CD's, but as someone who listens to hundred thousands of hours to music, i caught myself really wanting to find that "one" song, play it over and over and move on to the next "one" song. The way you cant skip a song on a vinyl player (well, you can, but you know what i mean) and really appreciate the album of a artist opened my world up to appreciate music alot more. The "hunt" for certain vinyls is another big deal for me personally. I love the search and speaking to other music enthousiasts to get in contact with the one person who has the vinyl i so desperately want. You can ofcourse argue that you do the same with CD's ofcourse, but personally, it is a different experience.
There's something no one ever talks about: the DAC used in the recording studio to master the vinyl is very likely much better than what you have in your hi-fi.
Cool video. I tend to agree on the technical part but as a vinyl enthousiast I have some notes:
-LPs already can sound so good that your ears aren’t missing anything when the format is concerned
-vinyl masters are usually better. The choice for loudness on digital masters is made to have songs pop out on the radio but it does not work when you want to listen attentively. It is a choice of sales over quality and not my choice for sure. Theoretically, CD provides more Dynamic Range but in practice the LP almost always has more of it. This is because LPs don’t allow for a loud recording. It would skip or not fit much music as you described. This theoretical downside forces master engineers to produce better, or more realistic sound and benefits music lovers.
- if you compare a same cost vinyl or cd setup, the turntable usually is better sounding than the CD player. This is certainly the case in my personal setup where a marantz cd6006 does not compare well to a thorens td 145.
Simple answer: any CD player above $200 sound more fiddle to source than any turntable (even $500,000)!! CD and Vinyl are containers of "source sound".
The CD format was defined thus, no human ear can distinct between source and reproduction. I can also state that even lab will not see a difference since source is filtered before converting to 44.1K.
I grew up in the 1990s. I had one of those Record players built in with a radio and 8 Track player
I'm sure you're right about the advantages of digital recording. When it comes right down to it though, I often prefer to dig out one of my LPs and give it a spin. You can compare this to the Japanese tea ceremony, in that there are a lot of actions around playing a record (that is, if you want to keep it in good condition), and a lot of associated parts, like the cover and liner notes. I'm not using a high-end turntable, but it and the cartridge mounted are adequate for enjoyable listening without excessive wear - that's 'enjoyable' as I perceive it. When I have less time or am just using music as a background, I'll throw on a CD or streamer. My choice often comes down to which version of a recording I have available. The quality of the original recording and the approach to duplication are probably big factors in the final sound of either media. I've purchased CDs that were absolutely awful, but the same can be said of some LP pressings too.
Yeah I love the ritual of playing a vinyl record too.
Thank you for this video !!
It was probably among other things that the criticism of the CD sound that caused Sony and Philips to upgrade the CD to SACD, ie from PCM to DSD. Although there could also be other reasons such as better copy protection and 5.1 sound. However, there is a competitor to SACD called DVD Audio
Why does no one ever say that vinyl can sound as cold and lifeless as a CD? I have many examples of this in my collection. Also, what many hardcore vinyl-lovers never mention is the cartridge/stylus, which has a huge impact on what the vinyl will sound like. They never seem to tell you what they are working with. I also submit that if you think vinyl sounds warmer, whatever that means, you are actually hearing the surface noise and probably some element of the turntable. Tony does mention this.
Mastering play the key role. Nowadays in old remastered vinyls make normalisation in waveform and cut many peaks, they have much loudness at 98-99db and hard bass, closed sound comparing to the original old vinyls. And they cost around 50 dollars or euros, each vinyl.
I remember when cds first came out, how some artists like Yello took total advantage of the new medium. There was no question then. Of course the cd was the beginning of the miniaturization of the album cover and eventual devaluation of music overall, so its easy to understand why people care about vinyl. The recording and mixing and mastering is more important than the format ultimately. Part of why people still look back to the production standards of the mid 70s to 90s as a golden era.
Well buying a CD for £12.99 in 1989 was damn expensive. Compare that to £6.99 for a vinyl lp then.
The term analog warmth originally came from tube powered gear that distorts differently it's a more pleasant harmonic type of distortion
That's really a marketing term. Warm isn't an audio term.
@@Scott__C well since you seem to be in the business of correcting people let me correct you warmth is an audio term I'm in the audio business and I hear the word used every single day warm cold hard whatever you want to say East Coast sound West Coast sound blah blah
@@Jonhobbs64 I was a sound engineer for 15 years, I heard them all.
I often thought of the "analog warmth" as something sounding really good specially in the ears of prog or psychedelic rock. A Moog synth or an electric guitar with a lamp based effects pedal will sound at home on an LP with a good old heat inducing lamp. But what about a quiet piano peace by Chopin? Does it need more "analog warmth"? I don't think so.
When I debate about the subject with friends, I always try to separate the question of "best sounding" from the question of "more faithfully" sounding. Two different topics.
Thanks for informing some folks that jumped on the vinyl bandwagon. IMHO the only advantage of a 12'' vinyl album vs. a CD is the art and titles are larger and you don't need a magnifying glass to read the credits. Otherwise, CDs are measurably superior from a scientific standpoint, not a subjective one.
just small one for the bass part. Bass on vinyl is definied in Z axis of the groove, not to the sides.
The fact that the debate over whether vinyl or CD's sound better has been going on since CD's came out and is still going on is proof in itself that Vinyl is not superior as the vinyl collectors want you to believe. My conclusion is the regardless of weather you think cd's or vinyl is superior the sound is in ears of the beholder.
I love my reel tapes, cassettes, mini discs, 8-tracks, 78's, 33's, 45's, and CDs. I also stream music! They all have good and bad aspects - but I must say my CDs sound the same today as they did when I first started buying them in 1984. "Born in The USA" and "Elvis' Golden Records" sound as PERFECT in 2024 as they did in late 1984! 40 years!?? Now I feel really old. . . . .
Many thanks! Well said I cannot agree more. I would argue that a low quality cd player may sound not so good though. So the dac is important and turntables do not need dac although they suffer from loads of other things.
If you get hold of original brand new LPs from 70s and 80s they sound incredible simply because the CD equivalent of those songs may not be mastered as good. Sometimes they are tho. I have hotel california original on LP and it sounds defo better than CD and tidal but that is just one song on one LP. Overall LPs are just cool and they sound defo better than spotify haha but not CDs in general. By the way you dont need 24bit for listening but ut helps for digital volume control sometimes.
Vinyl lovers are well known for their love of a good robust breakfast in the morning. All that bacon and eggs frizzling and spitting in the pan. Then they can happily relive those moments when they listen to their favourite 33 and 48 rpm discs.
😂😂😂
Hilarious
You can still love the vinyl FORMAT for what it is and acknowledge that CDs are technically superior. It's ok, the two are not mutually exclusive. This is what people don't understand.
100% correct.
Really enjoyed this comparison. I agree that the ritual and tactile nature of vinyl is what drives the format. You can’t beat it but as for sound it can be frustrating as hell when the sound is full of hiss and pops and clicks. Why do they not start making CD covers same as vinyl albums so that the art and all the liner notes are replicated with a CD stuck in the middle of a vinyl looking dummy. While CD covers can be good and box sets quite cool it is still too small to really appreciate. This way you can display your beautiful albums on walls etc and have the best possible sound. Just saying.
The only thing I like more about vinyl is that the art work is bigger. How about keepping the cd inside an vinyl album cover!
Disc Makers Can you please do a video sometime on what Vinyl inch has the best overall sound quality that be great help many tanks!?
Hi Tony. I wouldn't argue about most things you've said there, but the expenditure on equipment, software, paid expertise and time can become questionable for many people when confronted with personal tastes, current fashions and the usual listening environment of many listeners. While the existence of discerning listeners is not disputable and should certainly be catered for, the pressure of current fashion on many forms of music and the platforms that serve them up demands humungous bass and everything squashed to the ceiling, then often listened to as mp3 from your phone through Apple buds ... and ... Oh dear... WTF?
I am one pf those who prefer the sound of a CD over that of vinyl because of clarity and purity. My vinyl collection is mostly from albums I fail to find on CD or records from my childhood that bring back nostalgia. I am already working on converting all my vinyl records to digital WAV files for preservation. The only thing I can confirm about the difference in DACs inside a CD player is that newer DACs are generally much better sounding than older ones. For example, playing the same discs on my Sony Blu-ray player offers much more clarity and separation than playing the same discs on my Pioneer LD Player from the 90s', and playing the same discs on my Denon CD changer as a transport while using the DAC on my 2013 HK 171 AVR or 2020 RZ50 Onkyo sounds even better.
Except for the surface noise, skips and scratches. You also need to have a good-to-great turntable and cartridge and you have to contend with wow and flutter and rumble, especially with belt driven turntables. Tone arms eere always a comprmise, with the exception of a few like the Garrard Z1000.
I can give one very good example. Listening to Joni Mitchells Court and Spark on vinyl is a really different experience on digital. I have a good copy pretty original and the difference is stark. Its so warm, balanced and sheer beautiful on vinyl. That the one to compare if you wish...
Rip it to a CD and it will sound exactly the same.
CD > vinyl
Vinyl > CD if you want to listen to music. For anything else, dancing, listening while...whatever, yes use your cd.
Digital audio produces perfectly smooth output waves. There's a demo on here of pure Sine waves going in and coming back out.
Most folks don't know about the Nyquist Sampling Theorem. As long as the sampling frequency is at least twice the highest audio frequency the out put will be smooth.
22khz Low pass filtering creates aliasing which creates artefacts which makes CDs sound unpleasant. Vinyl is sweet.
@@robmccarthy1018No Rob, your forgetting the drastic low pass filtering needed to stop the frequency response dead at 22khz. This creates artefacts further down the spectrum. You cannot negate these on CDs. CDs suck.
Philips original CD players used 2x oversampling at 88.2KHz to avoid using a high order analog low pass filter at the o/p. This gave a much cleaner HF o/p. Most modern players use some form of oversampling. A lot of poor sounding CDs are a result of poor mastering 😀
I love both.
I probably have like around thousand Records and as many CD's And I enjoy both of the millions. It all depends how I feel in other words in the mood.
- High-Res streaming (Qobuz, Tidal) for the sound.
- LP for the romanticism and cool factor.
In spite of technicalities, analog still feels (yes feel this yopic is subjective depending on each person's perception) more profound, more wholesome. Don't get me wrong I still love the convenience of digital music.
It's like asking: which sounds better, a "clean" guitar sound or a "distorted" guitar sound? The answer is "whichever one you like."
If the question is: "which sounds MORE ACCURATE, then CD, without question, wins 100% of the time, by a wide margin.
Totally agree with the technical arguments but....vinil makes it for me, it's probably the religious like ritual of preparing the vinil to be played... I've been doing this for the last 55 years and I'm not trying to explain why I prefer it on Cd's and high rest streaming
Here's what it is for me: Vinyl is all about taking it out of the cover, then sitting down with a nice drink and relax. Then turn it over after 5 or so tracks. You want sound quality, go for CD.
While I love vinyl, I will admit, it's very much about the "ritual" if you understand. For me personally, at least.
While I miss the covers for the art and the liner notes, I don't miss something that degrades every time I use it, or storing tons of albums and 45s.
Can i just ask a question about the point on digital sampling not being able to capture the waveform as accurately as analogue. My understanding is that digital audio sampling can perfectly reproduce the analogue sound wave for all audio frequencies at or below the Nyquist frequency, which is 22,050 hz for CD (and beyond the realm of human hearing). Are you suggesting that vinyl / analogue is superior for these frequencies or simply saying that vinyl will reproduce frequencies beyond 22,050hz, unlike CD?
@@nicksterj Thanks for the reply Nick. Do you know if it's typical in the industry to low pass the input signal when cutting to vinyl? I'm wondering what upper frequency the physical vinyl can tolerate and play back reliably. Be it digital or analogue realm, I will never understand the argument for hi-res. I'm yet to find anyone who can reliably tell the difference between 44.1 and hi res lossless audio in blind ABX trials. I guess half the battle is finding audio equipment that can reproduce the full spectrum of hi res in the first place.
I asked Gemini to look at your video and tell me iwhat you were talking about and if you made any mistakes.. It said you were spot on.. I also know this to be the case about the sound quality. cd however breaks down in quality the higher in frequency you go, it should do very well with low frequencies, and cause of its dynamic range it should be easier to process sound from a CD than from an LP.. However since the grooves on a LP are visibly analog , its likely that at a very slow speed the vinyl will hold up. if read by a head that uses light instead of a physical head, to read the grooves.. The CD’s grooves if reproduced exactly on a LP would display a visible moire effect cause the samples would show up jagged on sharp rises in the amplitude.
This is from my laser physicist father, he said, when he was alive, that he could determine the quality of a CD by how many rainbows were visible from a light source, it determined the density of the etching.
All I could say is my original lp copy of Gaucho kills the CD version end iOS streaming versions on my high-end dac. with a modest vinyl playback system
my attitude has always been if it was designed for vinyl then listen to it on vinyl, if it was a modern digital recording then there is no point in transferring it to vinyl. I listen t pin Floyd on vinyl because everything was engineered to be reproduced on analog equipment, and altering the recording at a later date to Mae it suitable for cd alters the sonic profile of that recording n ways that are not always beneficial. when I listen to Bjor, I use CD because her music is better suited to that medium. Some of there worst early cd's were those that were simply transferred directly to cd with no appreciation of the differences between the two mediums. Vinyl is not better than CD, its just more suitable for playing older music.
that point there 7:30.. they press vinyl only from digital matrix's nowadays, made me give up and embrace digital years ago... at least i go for flac from cd.. mostly
One other vinyl variable you don't mention is the quality of the vinyl itself. Without getting too technical, vinyl is made from PVC (polyvinyl chloride). Because of the EPA and environmental changes over the years, vinyl today is not as pure as it was in the '70s. One of the world's three major vinyl suppliers had a factory fire a few years ago which caused delays in many releases, and pushed prices higher. Another variable is the US practice of recycling old vinyl with new vinyl (it's akin to using Hamburger Helper to stretch your budget.) The UK and Japan were known to produce quieter vinyl records for this very reason. Today vinyl is still a petroleum product and not always as pure as it once was. Color vinyl can be noisier than black vinyl because of the special coloring. The other big disadvantage of vinyl is that it is heat and pressure sensitive, and easily warps if not stored and transported properly. Of course if you leave a CD in the sun, it won't help it, but at least it will last longer than a box of vinyl albums stored in your trunk like the record reps used to do when they'd do their promotion trips to radio stations back in the day. Lastly, there is no such word as "vinyls", unless it's used in the possessive tense. Vinyl is a noun.
I became sensitive to the beaming, compressed 2 dimension quality of a lot of digital. It became too painful for my immune related ear pain. Digital has a brittle quality. That isn’t to say there are not great digital masters but I haven’t heard many. Like music itself, it’s subjective. Got my old records back out and damn they sound great. I still listen to CDs but I like the volume, experience and art. That’s the way I came up and music in a sense, has become cheap, and disposable.
Totally agree. I'm vinyl lover, with hiend turntable. Cd is excellent.
Imagine travelling to a world where instead of CDs we had laserdiscs for digital music. We would 3+ GB of space for high res music and most of the enjoyment and ritual of handling a vinyl.