MrObsidian Reviews: Exploring the Green Goblin's psychology and his attack on Heroism.
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- I break down the Green Goblin's psychology and his attack on heroism based on William Defoe's version of the character in Spider-Man 2002 and Spider-Man no way home.
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Video audio from CZcams library
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Other sound effects
Thunder sounds: from ThePhantomMonk
Other material
Fake eye ball drawing from clipartix.com
Thumbnail from Colonel sanders (CS)
Heroism definition
www.vocabulary.com/dictionary... - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Goblin's speech to Peter also seemed to me to resonate with himself and Norman on a personal level: the infamous "DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED?!"
Norman hints at past betrayals, on top of the one from his own company, so my conclusion is that his attack on heroism stems from paranoia from being backstabbed by everyone he trusted. In spite of everything he *sacrificed* for them, they eventually hated him.
This is also why he’s so bent on making SpiderMan see things his way: he’s desperate for a friend, and he believes he’s sparing a fellow superhuman from a fate similar to his own. Being rejected by Spidey- who turned out to be someone he admired, no less, was what made him flip out.
Finally, I believe Norman and Goblin are the same, and Norman is initially in denial, but over time, he embraces his darker side, hence him declaring, “We are who we *choose* to be!”
Thanks for the insight, love the detail
@@MrObsidian101 Welcome. I only recently thought of all that, as I couldn't grasp all of it as a kid. Gives the film lasting replay value.
I also think the Norman in No Way Home is more consciously in control than we are led to believe, and merely had trouble making up his mind until he was about to be cured of his "gift". By extension, this means him acting confused and afraid after being cured is just the same manipulation he used on the other Peter just before sending the glider at him.
This is mere speculation, but I also think him losing his company and son by being sent to another reality broke him and left him suicidal, which was why he wanted Peter to kill him. It's possible that being cured shifted his mindset enough that he didn't want to die anymore, which is why he acted innocent afterward. What happens after he goes home is anyone's guess.
"DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED"
I believe that the Green Goblin's attack on heroism is also deeply rooted in Norman Osborn's aspirations and failures. Sure, on the one hand, Norman wanted "power beyond your wildest dreams," but the Goblin is born because of Norman's desperate attempt to save his company from ruin, which is why the first thing the Goblin does is kill the scientist who said to Oscorp's military liaison that they needed to take the product "back to formula". Then, during the board meeting, Norman tells the members of the board about how, due to his efforts, Oscorp is doing better than ever, only to be told that the board has unanimously agreed to sell the company and oust Norman. Note his response: "You can't do this to me. DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I SACRIFICED?!"
The board tells Norman he's "out." "Am I?" whispers Norman. "Out, am I?" shouts the Goblin as he later murders the members of the board.
This brings us back to the Goblin's villainous thesis: "Despite everything you do for them, eventually they will come to hate you. Why bother?" Despite everything Norman did for Oscorp - establishing the company in the first place, working tirelessly to aid the United States armed forces, ensuring their unrivaled success in the market - and despite the sacrifices he made - his marriage, his relationship with his only son - eventually, the board came to disown him and dissolve his company. Why bother? This is why the Goblin's first matters in his agenda are to destroy those who inhibited Norman's chances for success and power. Norman, at great personal cost, created Oscorp, only to have it taken away from him by people who, presumably, did not make such sacrifices to become powerful. Even Norman's use of the performance enhancer on himself was, in a way, an act of "heroism," placing himself between Oscorp and ruin, at the risk of his own life.
Norman Osborn, in his own twisted way, walked the path of the hero, only to meet the inevitability of failure. The Goblin, having experienced this, chose the path of villainy in an attempt to take complete control over his life, and take vengeance on those who spurned Osborn despite his own sacrifices. "Why bother being the hero and lose everything, when you can be the villain and take everything, even power beyond your wildest dreams?" This, I think is the foundation of the Green Goblin's philosophy.
That actually makes complete sense. I think in his own way green goblin does love Norman Osborn he his creator despite how much he bashed him he exists to protect him by being stronger of the two. He a psychopath yes but I believe Norman Osborn is only thing he cares about after all why go after people how specifically hurt Norman not green goblin
I think that's why Goblin is the perfect foil for Spiderman. His true motivation is selfishness. He doesn't really have a grander plan, he just spits in the face of "with great power comes great responsibility." In his mind, power means you can do whatever you want.
6:08 Unluckily for the Goblin he didn't know about his world's Peter's spider sense so he assumed he'd easily kill him with the glider. But after MCU Peter sensed Norman was the threat his spider sense was warning him about Goblin found out about it.
I seriously cant understand this comment
"Eventually they will hate you."
Spiderman being branded as a criminal in both Raimi Spiderman thanks to the Daily Bugle, and in the MCU when Mysterio framed Peter for his death.
We see this happen with the other heroes in the MCU too such as Steve and Tony.
Villains philosophies:
the Joker: One bad day & Evil does not exist, only actions
Green Goblin: No good deed good unpunished & Might makes right
"You and me could rule the world spiderman"
*Or we could fight to the death!*
- Green Goblin
As someone who doesn't identify as an MCU fan, I am deeply honored that when the subject of great MCU villains comes up GG is on that list. It's so surreal because he predates the MCU and left his own mark both separate from and within it
Heroes need to win every day, Villains only need to win once.
That's a perfect line
"I chose my path you chose the way of the hero and they found you amusing for a while the people of this city but the one thing they love more than a hero is to see a hero fail fall die trying in spite of everything you've done for them eventually they'll hate you why bother"
Because it's right
@@elishawilson5342 Here’s the real truth.
Loved your interpretation. For me personally I understood the line "in spite of everything you've done for them eventually they will hate you " as a cynical look on heroes as commodities, whenever we get tired of one thing we move on to another.
That line reminds me of something similar that fire Lord Ozai said from avatar the last airbender. _"Even with all the power in the world, you are still weak"._
Same goes with goblin in psychopathy.
Even with his saying Peter killed his aunt may is him playing on peters feelings of guilt for not saving her. Even though she was going to be their regardless of Peter, he still can’t help but blame himself simply because she died. Eventually he will have to come to terms with it.
I REALLY can't wait to see how Insomniac Games will handle their Green Goblin and the message that version will deliver for villainy.
I pray to GOD that they make (peter's) Spider-Man and The Green Goblin's battle SOO bloody personal.
To a point where things get MENTAL, PSYCHOLOGICAL, and the viewers can see that.
This video has a major lack of views
Shucks 😝
Agreed, this was a really good video! Keep the work up my dude, and no doubt this channel will grow.
@@jetthusty8351 thanks, always appreciate the feedback
@@MrObsidian101 invest in a better mic 🎤 and you will get better
@@jaydenrichey4791 thanks man, I definitely intend to, 😇early days, early days.
To me the Line he said of despite doing the right thing they will eventually hate him is like spider-man doing countless of good things but him messing up one time or just seemingly making a bad decision he is to blame for and he is Hated and despise, ignoring of he’s true intentions and the countless of lives he saves and good deeds he has made.
I mean in he’s story, the movie and even more in the Video Game PS4 Spider-Man, he is shown to have failed, to make mistakes or just isn’t enough to get the job done, some people will hate on him and despise him, will put the blame on him basically making him the Scape Goat for absolutely everything, i think thats what the Green Goblin was trying to explain to him.
“In spite of all cookies you bake for them, eventually crumbs won’t be eaten. Why try?” -Green Goblin 2022
3:03 the guy with the glasses always gets me.
Lol, just imagine if Jonathan Decker (the therapist from the CZcams Channel Cinema Therapy) had to do a severe therapy/analysis on Norman Osborn himself! 😅😅
Peter griffin: " It's Willem"
One thing I miss about the comic book villains of old was not to take over the world or be on some dr evil thing, but that they simply had desires and goals that are admirable. Take Norman and Otto for example, both wanted to make advances that would push and help humanity but as soon as their experiments go haywire their darkness takes over. Norman had built up his own company and empire but was on the brink of loosing the funds for it, but once the goblin took over he had what he wanted and yet the people from the inside still wanted to throw away his name and legacy. Otto was a brilliant man but his cockiness got the better of him that his machine to harness renewable energy soon became his obsession, even at the cost of his wife and almost the city at the end. I’m not trying to justify their horrid actions, but you can at least see what good intentions they had at the beginning, but when push came to shove… their blinding alter egos overtook and amplified their morals.
He's the perfect foil to spiderman the other side of the coin selfishness vs selflessness. Being selfless sacrificing his relationship with his son so his company could thrive and putting himself in harms way by testing the formula on himself to please the board. Only for them to turn there backs on him made Norman see being selfless as foolish and pointless so he became selfish and started taking what he wanted and it worked he got what he wanted. Peter chose to be selfish when he refused to stop the thief and it resulted in his uncle being killed being selfish failed peter so he became selfless and became a hero which made things work out for himself.
The Green Goblin is a demonic entity possessing Norman Osborn which possessed Norman during the experiment and due to having all those creepy haunted voodoo masks in his house, that mask really did speak to Norman and represents the demon then after dying Harry didn’t even know about his father being the Green Goblin nor did he take any serum yet the demon still haunted Harry and influenced him through his father’s appearance. Take not this is Sam Raimi, the OG king of paranormal movies and also a modern comic literary proved the Goblin is a demon tormenting Norman.
Interesting
Awesome job green goblin is my favorite villain Spider-Man is my favorite hero the reason I like green goblin because he is true evil and like u said Spider-Man polar opposite but a villain that’s not truly evil I love is doctor doom
Cool i might explore doctor doom in the future, hint for next video it’s about the screenslaver 😎
Just because there will be someone who can't be saved doesn't make the endeavour pointless. Sometimes doctors lose patients, that doesn't change that they save a lot of people. If we didn't have doctors, far more people would die, which is objectively worse.
They're not trying to uphold a promise of being a hero, they're helping as many as they can, because that's better than letting everyone die. If you want to argue about whether that makes them heroes of not, that seems to just be semantic. And I think even by the definition provided, the argument is still wrong. Heroism is putting others before you, which Spiderman does. That doesn't mean he saves everyone, it means he wants to and does what he can to save them even when it's to his detriment. To say someone isn't a hero for not saving two people when there wasn't time to, is to be oblivious to reality, to ask the impossible.
Love the feedback, I agree even if it’s impossible that doesn’t make being a hero less valuable or not worth being. It’s just really really hard to be one
"I'm stronger, smarter! I am the ultimate evolution of Norman Osborn!"
-The Green Goblin-
*Homelander*
This Video Explains Why The Ramiverse Is My All Time Favorite Version of Norman/The Green Goblin in The Marvel Universe. William Dafoe’s did a Legendary Performance Bringing This Terrifying and Incredible Mastermind to life. The Raimiverse Version of The Green Goblin is My All Time Favorite Antagonist’s in Sam Rami’s Spider Man Trilogy and The Marvel Cinematic Universe.
Green goblin is same as joker because joker: you change things forever, there was no going back, see to them, you are just like a freak, like me. They need you right now but when they don’t, they will cast you out like a liper
I always thought he spoke about the God thing to manipulate the others into keeping their gifts, not him actually believing he is a God.
Also Norman have a very long history of being Betrayed. Even before his company, the one from the movie speak of his Ex-wife. We don't know the story but we do know Harry is left with the dad.
In the comics the level of betrayal he lives is just even worst to the point I believe anyone would come to the logic conclusion to not get attached, trust or care for anyone, Goblin or not.
The Green Goblin is Norman. They are one and the same. The Goblin target people that Harmed Norman or even his son. It's really easy to miss those hints of twisted care in a character so Evil. But he is not depraved of Care, just extremely selective.
I took his quote very directly.
" Eventually they will hate you, why bother " why does it hit so hard ? Cause he speaks from experience.
Norman needed Help, he was sick and the chemical was merely the trigger not the source of the problem.
This was Phenomenal!!! A lot of Villains Philosophies resonate with me, even tho I’d walk the path of the Hero. Just subscribed notifications bell on!!!
Thanks I appreciate the feedback
People who don’t find Green Goblin, as one of the best superhero villains… simply don’t know how much he sacrificed!!
“William Dafoe” okay then 🤣
🤪😇🤣
Born after 2000 wtf 😂 bro that would make the oldest of those kids like 2 when this film came out , these movies were more for kids born between 1990 and 1998, you know …when you can actually perceive the world around you , have an ego formed ….most kids born after 2000 are Garfield kids
I just meant people born after 2000, so within the last generation most if not all people loved this film 🫡😇🫡
Dude this video was really awesome just subscribed 🤘🔥
Thanks man, I have something in the works coming soon 😎
I love Norman Osborn I can relate with norman cause I think like him the problem is what if I turned into something of a green goblin myself...
you have to be a genius, insane, super strong and virtually fearless to truly be the first Green goblin. Do you posses all 3 qualities?
Y'know, I'm something of a supervillian myself...
Goblin isn't wrong though on his eventually they will hate you quote for the most part.
The truth about him is that he is a meme
Willem Dafoe*
Not William.
Excuse the pedantics.
I know, I realised that way after, 😂😂😂
@@MrObsidian101 Oh. right, of course like 90* other people would be telling you the same thing. duh.
I bet half your comments are about that, huh?
@@14megasxlr I mean no not half but enough that it’s a meme 😂
I liked his video on captain America and screen slaver
Hmm yes lore of Exploring the Green Goblin's psychology and his attack on Heroism momentum 100
??????
Ayo My Favourite Actor…. WiLiAm Dafo
😇my bad
"Wili am Dafo" or "Wil i am Dafo" Is Wili and Dafo the same person or is Wil talking to Dafo?
@@Ashadar_Resouley ah I see what you did there.
@@Ashadar_Resouley all of the above? 😄
.Green Goblin From Year 2002 Movie.😎.
I mean that’s the movie I was talking about 😂😂😇
Superiority complex? Sounds like most of the social class in society.
It’s is unfortunate that a lot of people think that
Excellent breakdown. Subscribed✔️
Awww shucks
@@MrObsidian101 you deserve it bro💯 best video essay on the goblin I’ve seen so far
Great video gang❗I appreciate all the time & effort you put into making this. Very great content & meaningful as well. I subscribed & from now on I'll stay in tune with any new videos you put out❗✔🔥💯
Awww shucks
Willem* not William
My bad 😄
His birth name is William but changed to Willem. Technically, it isn't wrong to pronounce it as William
I wonder why this particular video has the most views on your channel. Is is the title? The subject? The thumbnail? Well whatever, good luck to you. I love subscribing to new channels with less than a thousand subs.
Thanks man early day support is the best
The Giblin isn’t some separate entity nor Norman Osborn “unhinged” Giblin uses a lot of Norman Pain and embittered d feelings to target certain people in certain ways (board members, saying hurtful thing to Harry ect) but he’s totally a eeperate form Norman as a perosn.
Like dr strong said it drives the perosn into total insanity
Thanks for the info, I just meant I wanted to treat the goblin and Norman as different because they are shown as completely different characters
I’ll use three words to describe my day instead: Misery Misery Misery
Love the call back 😝😝
Lex Luther: if god is incredible then he is not good and if he is good then he is not incredible.
Yeah but he says he created an exceptional being such as himself. He thinks he is doing the impossible. Hence the God complex.
He referred to spider man as exceptional as well, it’s not common that people with the god complex share their position, that’s one of the reasons I argued for the superiority complex instead, love the feed back
i like this take
Thanks man
this was an amazing video! id love for you to improve the parts in your video where you have text written, cause the font you are using kinda gives your video an amateuresque feeling, even though your essay and analysis on the goblins psychology was top notch!
do a video exploring spider-man(tobey maguire) psychology please
The serum exemplified his will to power and the drug induced trip of power was too satisfying to consider anyone else, Norman follows the path of least resistance, and has a ball doing it. It's in the reflections of what's inside, staring back at you, and you're weak and the goblin serum is strong and makes the path easy, he is a supper soldier and he could do this all day, but there's the people and the world telling him to choose, Normans fear feeds this will to power that mocks his weakness in every reflection like a guilty stare that fuels the flames when determination is exhilarating and unwavering inevitability, in the face of exceptionality it signifies a state of intense motivation and persistence in pursuing goals despite facing challenges or obstacles like the less powerful. This combination of feelings suggests a strong sense of drive, passion, and towards achieving success. Exhilaration implies a feeling of excitement and energy, while unwavering determination indicates a steadfast resolve that does not waver even in the face of adversity. Together, these qualities create a powerful force that propels individuals towards their objectives with enthusiasm and resilience to make them pay, no one says no to me! The drugs is real can you feel it!? The voice takes over and becomes you. Like a dream or nightmare someone is living in your home. And I can't remember, I don't want to remember... AHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!
OUT AM I?
SACRIFICE HAVE I?
its your turn to be stepped on by those stong enough to sacrifice, you killed her! By delineating yourself with weakness. by doing so you will be wrought with sacrifice! Ahahaha ahaha. Quiet goblin time to be a Coward.
Nice video bro
Shucks 😇
Good analysis but you should really edit your repeated word phrases a bit and get better audio equipment. Overall great vid though.
Thanks man, yeah I wanna get a new mic
bro improve ur editing skills and get a better microphone, the content is alr amazing. keep up the good work!
Early days my friend, early days, but I definitely will 😇
This video needs more likes
I relate more with the villians than I do heros
That’s a problem
@@ninjanibba4259 Nah, I think most people do.
@@eli9404 no they don't actually
@@ninjanibba4259 nah
@@eli9404 You and the other guy need to be locked tf up lol
Emmanuel Chukwunonso don't worry. When I first started setuping I felt the exact sa. Just keep ssing around with a DAW and you
I feel like his quote is echoed through real life as well in spite of everything you've done for them eventually they will hate you Marvel movies used to be so great we love them unconditionally until they got woke and eventually we hated them now with every new project that happens we look at the trailer and say why bother ( with some exceptions of course) XD
Goof point....good point...
great video
Subbed
the majority of comic book people me included did not care about this character til no way home (I still don't care, but I do have to respect the performance in both movies)
The scene that made him my favourite villain was when he was laughing and getting punched.
Release your new tracks...im waiting
Dayum this slaps !
This is some good shit. And for how my day is going : 🙂🤤👍
you just do as your told
Real
NORMAN OSBORN!!
I wouldn’t say I love it but it’s fine I prefer tasm2
Gen Z's Spider-Man is Holland's, Tobey's generation is Y.
that's funny, i'm gen z and i grew up with tobey's spidey, cause at that time, tobey was the current spidey.
He’s actually WORSE in the comics ! You should see his crimes there . He’s one of the most evil villains in Marvel.
Oh boi
“Tally ho”
Ayo
It's not her-o-ism. It's he-row-ism.
Good video though. Made me subscribe 👍
Bad grammar runs in my family 😁😁I stick by my literacy mistakes and try and improve on them
It can be said either way.
Potato potato, same thing
🙏🙏🔥🔥😔😔
Green goblin and Spider-Man use Chinese history to said is 天下英雄唯使君與操矣。
🤨😎😮
....what???
What’s up 😇
😂😢🫡
Green goblin is Spider-Man joker and lex Luther and red skull fusion because lex and red skull hate red blue hero
🎃👻🤡
That wasn't Green Goblin. That was a bad actor in Darth Vader armor. We've never seen Green Goblin on screen.
What?
L take lmao
Ok.
Bad actor? As in willem dafoe? Bad actor? You are so wrong. I would like to know why mcu Norman isn't good to you , comic Norman imo isn't even as deadly as mcu Norman. I'd take Mcu's Dafoe Goblin then anyone even comic book accurate Goblin he has been Goated for the past decade and a half. And then some.
@Rocky Montana Garcia mayne what? I mean yes but darth vader is a different character and he is great too
i like this take