Floyd Rose Hollow Points, Trash Or Treasure?
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- čas přidán 4. 07. 2024
- This time I install the Hollow Points, an intonation system designed to make setting up your Floyd Rose easier.
But Does it really? You be the judge.
00:00 Introduction
00:29 What it is and where it goes
00:50 It fits more than just a Floyd Rose
04:22 If anything doesn't fit DON'T FORCE IT
05:10 Putting on the Hollow Points
05:44 Don't lose your string retainer blocks
06:37 Locking them in place with the fine tuner
07:20 Stringing it up
07:46 Time to see how well they work
09:14 My first impression isn't a good one
10:30 I won't be recommending these to anyone for intonating
10:58 Can you modify them to tune your Floyd
12:32 Short answer, yes. but...
13:07 My personal verdict - Hudba
just great video Ive looked for, thanx Rexy !! a lot!!!!!
Glad I could help!
Great content, I love the fact he went straight to compatibility at the beggining of the video. Protect this man at all costs
Thank you!
I am editing a video on the plek now that I hope takes away the mystery surrounding the machine. You might enjoy that as well.
I have some coming up on guitar maintenance as well that I hope you find very useful.
I love that black and red FU Tone one
That thing cost a mint but it is really cool looking.
always remember when intonating you have 3 saddle set screw options, if it seems you are running out of room you can move the saddle back a hole or forward a hole to get that range of intonation.. I've heard guys say the saddle wont go back far enough to intonate... move it to the last hole at the rear for more of that range
I’m aware of the holes.
Another great vid. I’ve wondered what’s up with those hollow points. I appreciate the info.
I love Floyd and want one of everything they make… except these. These things suck!
A big big thank @ Rexylab for this upload.I've watched their video and it looks super handy but i was confused about fine tuning on stage but your video answered all my questions.
I’m glad I could help.
I’m going to do a video on an amazing accessory for the Floyd that will turn it into a fixed bridge and then back to fully floating just by pointing the bar at the ground. It will be up some time in December.
This is a prototype but man, it’s beyond amazing and more importantly… it actually works!
@@REXYLAB Can't wait to see this knew accessory you're coming with,i always been curious by nature,need to understand how things work.
@@francoisfavreau769 here’s a sneak peek. This almost forgotten piece by Kahler is back and Gary Kahler and I are working on a adapter for the Floyd Rose.
Kahler Steeler With Auto-Latch Full Set Up Tutorial
czcams.com/video/ytsE5VSZsX0/video.html
Very useful video.👍
Thanks, I tried to make it thorough as possible.
AGREED! I just removed my set of Hollow Points”.
It’s a nice idea but, meh. I really wanted to like these things.
I feel they'd be easier to adjust on a top mount than a recessed FR. But generally I agree that they're just not really needed - I know intonation is important, but since most of us use the same gauge, and usually same brand too, of strings and we usually do it when the strings are new, you're really not going to be be doing intonation that often you need something like this. I bought a knock off of the Key, and it was useless (but that's no doubt because it was a knock off) so I just use a pair of long-nose pliers and do it manually (the pliers aren't really needed, but just gives a bit more control over fine movement of the saddle and you can leave a little more tension on the string as you're gripping with pliers not fingers). I've done my OFR twice this way, and it's been fine both times.
I have used the key for decades and a real one works great.
These things might be better for a top mount but this guitar was a top mount back in the 80s with the same Floyd so it isn’t recessed, you can just pull up on it. Therefore you actually have more room to get your fingers around them.
Either way, I’m not a fan. These will come off and go back in the box for someone that will enjoy them.
I agree. I measure for the high e saddle, then eyeball the rest. Lock them in and use a different version of the key to get it right.
That is the best and fastest way I have found to do it.
Nice video. I also tried the Hollow Points but quickly returned them, pretty much having the same experience you showed here...big thing was that they limit the travel ability of your fine tuners.....Also, regarding intonation - I have "The Key", but I don't use it anymore, because I was having trouble getting it dislodged from the baseplate after setting intonation. I now use the Red Bishop Accu-Locator for intonation, and it's the best thing I've found yet. Crazy simple to use, and high quality made in Japan stuff, by the same parent company that oversees Luminlay stuff. Highly recommend checking it out if you haven't already!
I have the key and the Ibanez E-Jack. They’re nice but I can usually do an intonation setup with just my hands.
Actually I'll be using these hollow points as my micro-tuners. Why? Because I hate how the vertical thumb screw micro-tuners stick up and interfere with my hand. I bought the original non micro-tuning version of the Floyd Rose and installed it on one of my Kramer Baretta Specials. I can't imagine how anyone wouldn't prefer the thumb screws being much lower or out of the way completely. Once the hollow points are installed as micro-tuners the vertical micro-tuners will become intonation setting screws.
Is a vertical micro-tuner easier to turn? Yes. Is it worth a little extra work to turn the horizontal micro-tuners to have a more comfortable playing bridge? Hell yes. I'm glad you posted this content.
I wish you luck but I think you would be happier with one of the Fernandes bridges that are made to work like that already or even a JT6.
Can you put a d-tuna on a FR with hollow points?
Nope. One or the other.
7:22 Thats crazy, looks good
They look way better than they work.
Hey Eddie, just found your channel. Great stuff and really appreciate all your info. Did you happen to post a video regarding that FU-Tone bridge? Considering that for an upgrade and would love to see what you did with yours. Thanks again!
What a cool CZcams handle you have, I absolutely love it!
I haven’t gotten around to installing mine yet but it’s coming.
They are very pretty and have lots of options but they are very expensive for what you get. Not a very good deal in my opinion.
As of now I recommend the gotoh 1996T over pretty much everything for a double locking system, even a German made Floyd Rose.
The reasons are plentiful.
1. Locking studs.
2. Screws that hold the springs to the block.
3. Top quality everything.
4. Half the price of a German Floyd Rose.
Now, after in install the FU Tone I might change my mind but I doubt it. Also, most of their upgrades should fit the gotoh.
I hope that helps and if you have any other questions I’m here to help so ask me anything.
P.S. I just started doing videos for Kahler and later this year they will have 3 limited run fulcrum systems that I saw at the factory. Two of them I believe will take the place for my first choice in a whammy bar. If you can wait you might want to see if either of these appeal to you. They will be expensive, but worth it! And they will offer an upgrade that you won’t be able to believe.
I’m wish I could tell you more but I can’t until later this year. Gary Kahler has sworn me to secrecy. I invite you to go ahead and subscribe and set notifications to all so you don’t miss the announcement. They are limited run and will probably go very fast.
@@REXYLAB thanks man! Needed an artist name for whatever online projects I find myself in. I appreciate the quick and detailed response for sure. I’ll definitely look into the Gotoh 1996T. Planning to swap out my FR Special from my Jackson soloist and possibly my Charvels (2018 +).
The FU-Tone Build A Bill, I mean Bridge 🤣 is fun until you go to checkout! 😵🤢🤮
Boy they sure do look sharp tho, and they really sell you on the titanium.
Any opinion regarding titanium components? Some worth it, some not?
Lastly, subscribed and notifications = ON 🤘😎
@@Shred.Krueger that’s awesome, thanks for subscribing.
As far as titanium I don’t really think there is much benefit. It’s expensive and cool to say, “my bridge has titanium parts” but hardened steel works just fine.
Not to sound like a dick but any upgrade from a special will be a major improvement. You almost can’t go wrong. That being said here is one mistake many people make, not installing the posts that come with your new bridge.
Especially in the case of the gotoh because not only do you get a set screw, the knife edges are different. So different that Floyd posts will damage them over time (and most people will never notice).
@@REXYLAB Roger that.
I appreciate it man. Agreed on the FR Special upgrade. Will reach out with any questions I’m sure. Also looking forward to your Kahler news!
@@Shred.Krueger I think I might do a special one on counterfeits from the interview I had with Gary. It has some eye opening moments, and a funny story as well.
Love that song!
Me too! You hear Kerry King’s new song?
I'll have to check that out@@REXYLAB
Hey Eddie,
Any ideas on solving the binding issue on a behind-the-nut locking...nut...with the JT6? Shimming the string lock? Tried graphite as lube, changing out the slotted bolts...
I don't want a chrome Kahler replacement...
AAAAArrrrrgggghhhhhhh!
Chuck
Is the problem that it is not returning to tune when used?
@REXYLAB Only the B (every dive) and G strings (every other). Pop/stretch the string good once and it's right back in tune.
ETA: The soft-cheaper metal itself is the issue, I've been told. A Kahler replacement string lock will fix it, but all I can find are chrome...or $100 for one that's more rust than black.
@@lsu1992 I have set up a lot of JT6 trems. I doubt that is the issue.
Are you in Louisiana? Perhaps I need to take a look at it if possible.
@REXYLAB You're right, it's the b string hanging up on the clamp screw when I dive...the nut slots and the locking nut don't line up.
I'm actually in Texas now, about 4.5 hrs from BR.
Where are u, Eddie? We go home to BR often to visit family. I have an '87 Ibby Roadstar 150 to donate to the kiddies alao.
@@lsu1992 I’m in Arnaudville, just a little outside Lafayette.
If you want to have me do some work for you dropping off your guitar at C&M in Lafayette is an option if I happen to be offshore. C&M and Rexylab work together a lot.
I dig that guitar . . I bought this unit that clamps .. also I have no issues with a JT6 I use em just fine, they do need cleaning and lubing tho onto the rear and it does the same thing
Why to you keep bringing up the JT6?
Did I miss it? Does this work on the Ibanez Low Pro??!!??!!
Not very well.
Why intunate at the tremolo rather than the the headstock? Beginner question.
Great beginner question!
You tune the guitar at the headstock. If the intonation is out the further up the neck you go the more out of tune each note will be it out of intonation.
The bridge sets the actual length of the string. The length is how you set intonation. Therefore we put the bridge saddle where it needs to be to determine the exact length.
Then we tighten it down and then we are free to tune the guitar at the headstock and the guitar will be in tune in every fret.
Hey there Eddie, here's a question from a half baked novice who didn't touch almost any guitar shape exept an Ibanez Iceman model and les paul shapes feel fuckin' wierd to me.
If I were to buy a guitar with a great free floating tremolo bridge or however they're called, what's your suggestion since you're partnered up with Kahler or should I stay the hell away from them before i break something?
Since you, Andy Rehfeldt and Brad the Guitologist are the holy trinity of my favorite youtubers of all time. Asking for advice from you wouldn't be stupid.
I would stay away from Kahler, at least until you see the first video in the series.
Next, what kind of guitar would you put it on and also would you want stiff action or a little more loose?
@@REXYLAB I'm not sure, having it a bit looser sure sounds nice, I'd think an SG type of thing or any double cut or strat shaped ones would do quite nicely. Those feel more natural instead of big-ass pears that LP's are. If we're talking about my personal prefrence. Above all else, I don't think I'm too picky about one or the other. Just curious and terrified of Floyd roses and alike.
@@josephshmoesinsky8610 well, the best thing I can think to do is wait until I start the series and then if Kahler seems cool enough to you to fork out that cash to make it happen that’s reason enough to go for it.
I would recommend a strat as that would be pretty easy. Strats are a piece of cake to modify.
The 2300 was designed to be fairly easy to install in a strat. Some holes line up to make sure it’s in the right place and everything. You have to route. If you are uncomfortable with a router either get someone else to do your routing or pick another bridge.
The 2500 will go in a strat no problem as well. Most people, even Kahler people hate the 2500.
But there are lots of non kahler choices. The gotoh 1996T is my go to. The quality is amazing, it’s cheap, it’s my favorite bridge to install and use without a doubt.
With that one or any Floyd variant There would be more modifications and measurements would need to be much more precise.
Also significantly more routing.
There is a version of the iceman that has the Ibanez edge on it. That is my second favorite bridge. If you find one of those no matter how much it costs it would probably be cheaper than buying a guitar, whammy bar, tools to install the thing, etc.
Plus you aren’t sweating over ruining something.
But… if you want to get a beat up old strat or even an iceman with a Tune-O-Matic bridge and retrofit a Kahler this series will walk you through exactly how to do it.
And if you want to do it for no other reason than to prove to yourself you can that is a great reason and I’ll totally walk you through it.
Either way, I'll watch your stream first. then I'll hit you up. Since I do have a dissasembled partscaster in my basement and I'm curious to see what's up.
@@josephshmoesinsky8610 if it has the American 6 hole bridge spacing you are golden, sir!
I can’t wait to make my 80s Kahler, EMG, Partscaster! It’s pretty exciting if I do say so myself.
Hey, do they work on floyd rose non fine tuner?
Good question, no they do not. They are based on the angle of the “whale tail”. The non fine tuner Floyds don’t have that.
floyd rose non fine tuner don't make sense cause when you lock the nut and immediately go sharp you are screwed.....nothing you can do
@@ltcuaa that’s what Gary Kahler said too.
It wasn’t until the fourth version of the Floyd that they put fine tuners on them. That version didn’t last long as EVH fucking hated where they were so they moved them (I mean, what would you do? Of course we can change that Mr. Van Halen) and that gave us the FRT5, what we know today as the 1984.
@@ltcuaaI have a recent non micro-tuning Floyd Rose and it works perfectly. I tune, tighten the licking nut bolts/caps and its perfect. I bought it because of its simplicity and no annoying sharp micro-tuners in the way of my hand. Guthrie Govan has the same complaint.
People asked me why I put original Floyds on my newer Jacksons, (97 and 2002) but left the JT6 on my '87 Charvel Model 5 - Why would I? It's original to one of the greatest guitars ever made, and it works flawlessly if setup properly.
I will also direct them to this video.😊
Thank you!
I actually have two Charvel guitars with the JT6 that I love to play and a third that is just waiting for me to have the time to do a JT6 tutorial.
So that’s coming should you be interested.
Still 😂 at that abomination Broke-Neck Mountain "Khorealer" video.
Good stuff, Man.
@@lsu1992 I just started shooting the history of Kahler video. It’s in there.
I was wondering how well these would work..thanks....
Not well in my opinion.
On their website they say depress the trem with the bar, then adjust the hollow point. Makes it easier to turn the hollow point and you don’t have to detune from the headstock
czcams.com/video/Fb7itqXP9Yw/video.html
I know that. However it is my experience that if you allow the bridge to move it throws all the other strings out and takes much longer.
If this works for you that’s great, it doesn’t work for me.
@@REXYLAB 👍🏽
its a JT6 intonated hybrid I need to ask why?
Rephrase the question, I don’t understand what you are asking.
A trick I learned when using the hollow point system is instead of dropping the slack in the string at the peg, trem it down and hold the bar with your left hand, loosen the bolt on the saddle, adjust intonation, tighten down, then tune back up.
There is certainly more than one way to do anything. If that works for you than that is great.
In my personal experience the easiest way to have precise intonation is to immobilize the bridge with the wedge the way I show in many videos on intonation with a floating bridge. Letting it just float can result in the other strings being out as you adjust the next one.
Kind of like when you tune one string just to find out the one you just tuned is now out… again.
This is because of spring tension being incorrect. If that’s the case it won’t tune or intonate properly. That’s why I use the wedge and isolate the bridge keeping spring tension for the very last thing.
Like I said, if the way you do it works for you that’s great. Definitely keep doing it the way you prefer. To me it is too imprecise. That is why I recommend the way I know the info of the bridge will be rock solid.
I only encourage the way I feel personally is the easiest to get repeatable results. That is because 20 different people shows me 20 different ways to do it and 19 didn’t work very well at all. But if people want to use the hollow points and do it the way they say to do it in the instructions I won’t be upset at all. If it works for you or anyone else that’s great. Its just that for me they are unnecessary and make an easy job more difficult.
Of corse, the most important thing is just to love your guitar and play it, a lot!
@@REXYLAB I tested out using the key this weekend, and I had to return it because it didn’t work with my particular FR due to the back being slanted, so I was hoping something like the hollow point would work
@@thisguy2973 the truth is you actually don’t need anything but your fingers if you loosen the string enough. But the Ibanez ejack or the red bishop would probably do what you need.
While these tools are not required they do make life easier.
Are these things meant to stay on the guitar full time? If so, it seems like a waste of money, especially if you have more than one Floyd equipped guitar. Usually you only have to set the intonation periodically unless you change something like the action or gauge strings.
Just get the Red Bishop intonation tool. It works on most FR systems, it's cheaper than just one set of Hollow Points, and you don't have to detune the string to adjust the intonation.
Yep, leave them on the guitar. I think by now it’s obvious I don’t care for these.
Intonation tools like the red bishop are great. I use the key and the ejack myself.
I will say that it is a good idea to detune if you have to adjust going away from the nut. Alleviating the string tension will make everything much easier. But if it works for you then leave the tension as is. Personally I just loosen it up as to not damage the threads of my tool and make moving the saddle much easier.
changing the guage requires no intonation adjustment. guage change usually requires spring tension adjustment. this hollow point tool does not really do anything. also easier to block floyd while intonating all strings then adjust spring tension when done. no need to tune to full pitch either to intonate, as long as tuner can read just compare that needle of the tuner placement between open and 12th fret
Are they heavy?
No
I want a Floyd Original that is completely titanium. Every part.
Those were a marketing gimmick. They don’t actually sound good. That’s why they only made a hand full.
A neat product but pretty unnecessary in my opinion, I like the simplicity of The Key as its just more simple and you don't have to replace anything. looks a bit neat but overpriced for what it offers and lets be real how often are you adjusting the intonation? Rarely if at all its pretty much set unless you change tunings and string gauges/brand.
I couldn’t have said a t better myself. You totally nailed it!
changing the guage or tuning requires no intonation adjustment. guage and tuning change usually requires spring tension adjustment. remember intonation relies on string length, guage or tuning is not relevant,
@@ltcuaa that is completely incorrect.
Thanks for this video great review!!!
I’m glad you found it helpful.
Can't use those with a D Tuna.
Nope!
Well at least it’ll be easier to intonate 5 of my strings. Just have to do the low E the old fashioned way
you can divebomb for easier access for your fingers
That throws everything out of whack. I stand by my assessment.
they may be more logical on a top mounted bridge, recessed its had to turn em
No, these things are stupid.
Hi,
Just watched your video (twice).
I don't own hollow points.
I've never touched them.
So, I could be wrong.
That being said, I don't think you are using them properly.
At 8:22, why do you detune the guitar.
I could understand a quarter of turn, to slightly loosen the string, but 2-3 turns, I don't think you need to do that.
At 8:46, why don't you put the bar on, put the trem down, adjust the screw, release the bar, check the intonation and repeat 'till perfect.
That would make it way more easier.
You probably don't do this because your trem is floating.
And I guess that's what's making it a pain in the a**.
On a non-floating trem, it probably would make it a lot easier.
Thanx for the video
The reason I do it the way I did is because you get a false positive when you dive the bar. If you don’t immobilize the bridge then it can move. If it can move the strings change tension. If the tension of one spring changes when doing this setup then the last string (or the string you did three strings ago) is now out of tune and intonation.
The truth is these things are a gimmick that don’t work as advertised for people with more money than sense. The only way to dependably intonate any floating bridge is to make it fixed and then adjust spring tension until it’s balanced.
This product encourages consumers to do the job wrong in order to spend money on something that doesn’t work.
@@REXYLAB
I agree with you, on a floated bridge.
On a dive-only bridge, it's a cool idea.
But, considering how often I adjust the intonation, I agree that it's a lot of money...
Cool channel and cool videos.
Merci
Its a pain in the butt because you are doing it wrong. You are supposed to push the whammy bar to allow clearance. THEN turn it
When you don’t immobilize a floating vibrato system and make it fixed there is no consistency and it has the same problem as when you tune one incorrectly, the throws the string out you just set.
It appears the reason its a pain in the butt because the guitar you demonstrated this on has a recessed Floyd Rose Bridge. The way the JT6 is mounted on the original Charvel there is plenty space for the horizontal micro-tuners. Most guitars have the Floyd Rose mounted at the surface level giving plenty space for fingers. I love Floyd Rose's but hate how my hand hits the micro-tuners. The Gotoh 1996t micro-tuners are further away from the saddles so its not as annoying. I put these on my Kramer Baretta and it does suck. Aluminum has terrible drag coefficient and is the last material you'd use for metal on metal, but its light and anodized nicely. I will be making these out of steel to be used as tuners. The thru hole pins like the JT6 are necessary.
No Low Pro😭😭
Lo pro Ibanez edge?
I'm sure I'm not the first person to comment this, but i think these are not ideal for recessed floyds which is maybe why you were struggling with it. I can imagine them being way easier to fiddle with on a non-recessed. Let me know what you think because I was thinking of buying these for a non-recessed Kramer before i saw this video haha
You are the first actually to say that. Respectfully I have to disagree. The hollowpoints are a useless gimmick in my opinion but that’s my opinion.
They are ridiculously stiff and anyone that has played a JT6 knows that isn’t necessary.
The directions to use them is not something I agree with either. The
@@REXYLAB I appreciate you getting back to me on this! and i was only making a hypothesis to see your thoughts since i was on the fence about purchasing anyway haha. I will most likely not then. Thanks for the honesty!
Ok, update. The hollow points SUCK as fine tuners.
However the JT6 Tuners are absolutely awesome.
If someone is thinking of buying the hollow points as micro-tuners don’t waste your money. The Jackson Charvel JT6 or Fernandes FRT 4 are special.
I suspected you wouldn’t like them but you might have. At any rate I’m glad you did the research and figured it out for all of us.
One other thing, the FRT4 is the one that EVH made them change to fRT5 because the fine tuners were too close to his hand. I’m not sure what one by Fernandes I have that is like a JT6 but it’s probably the 6, 7, or maybe even 8.
I have yet to install that one but when I bought it I thought of you. Have you found one for yourself yet? That’s probably the solution you’re looking for.
Part of the reason the hollow points are bad is they’re made of aluminum, which is the stickiest substance in the world of metals, it was pointed out to me that sandpaper contains aluminum dust. The pointed tips of the hollow points also get wedged into the grooved slots for the saddle locking bolts. Friction and stiction. Aluminum anodizes nicely and machined easily but is poor for any kind of threaded functionality.
@@davidspinazzola4250 yep, aluminum is weak as fuck.
It doesn’t change where the fine tuners are but the new Kahler steeler is all steel, stainless steel, and 360 H/H brass. You might really dig the pro version, especially with the Auto-Latch feature. Check it out.
The 2024 Kahler Steeler Professional
czcams.com/video/W_ruhk9WTwA/video.html
@@REXYLAB aluminum is very strong and rigid for a structure, such as a frame of an airplane, car or motorcycle frame, but it isn’t suitable for high wear metal on metal applications because it has a high friction coefficient and falls. It doesn’t flex, it fatigues. Guitar components should be steel or brass.
@@REXYLAB and…. Circling back to the title of your video, not really needed. If people really wanted easy intonation steel would have worked better. I use the little tool for intonation, Floyd Rose saddles don’t move around over time like a standard saddle.
Your video grabbed me because I had been thinking about a horizontal fine tuner. Hah! 🐇🕳️
You don't have to detune if you bomb it, per the instructions.
You absolutely must de tune the string before you loosen the saddle to intonate the bridge. I think you are reading the instructions for something else.
@@REXYLAB it's quite literally right on their website.
B
“BOMB” the trem unit by depressing the arm to its fullest extent
L LOOSEN the Saddle Mounting Screw
I INTONATE the string by adjusting the position of the saddle
T TIGHTEN the Saddle Mounting Screw
Z ZERO out the fine tuner within the groove of the Hollow
@@micahmoses3526 well, what can I tell you. That way is not efficient. You can do it that way if you want. The way I intonate you can’t move the bridge until your done.
@@REXYLAB interesting. Also btw you can damage your tuners if you use them with slanted tuners
@@micahmoses3526 I’m sure you are a wonderful fella but you have not said one thing I agree with yet.
None of this matters anyway because I am not a fan of the hollow point.
Perhaps on one of my other videos we will find some common ground. Even if we don’t it doesn’t matter because if you took time out of your life to watch a video I made I appreciate it.
Floyd Rose's website needs to explain their stuff WAY better. It's a good looking website but the explanations' are really lazy and incomplete.
Exactly why I did this video. Also, exactly why Kahler hired me to make their website more user friendly!
cool, maybe FR needs to hire you too! Thanks.@@REXYLAB
This video asks whether you should put these on your FR. It proceeds to go on for most of the video about whether they fit a frigginduseldorphin tremolo. Get to the point of the thesis statement.
My videos aren’t for everyone, it’s ok that you didn’t like it. I won’t loose any sleep over it and neither should you.