I Get Confused when the Fog Clears if I Don't Deserve It!
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- Here's where you can try Is V Greater Than, Less Than, or Equal to 5? by HalfBakedLunatic: app.crackingthecryptic.com/pn...
Normal sudoku rules apply. "V" can be either "inequality" (arrow ‘points’ to smaller digit) or "two digits sum to 5" or both. If the two digits do sum to 5, the "V" can be in any orientation and does not necessarily indicate ‘greater than/less than’. Digits must not repeat in cells that are a chess knight's move apart. The digits in a cage must sum to the number printed in its corner. Entering a correct digit will clear the fog from around that cell.
(This version contains answer check and won't clear fog incorrectly!)
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▶ Contents ◀
0:00 Theme Music & News around the channel
1:55 Rules of today’s puzzle
3:45 Start Of Solve - Let's Get Cracking! - Zábava
Hi Mark! I'm always thrilled to have a puzzle featured on the channel, thank you! I apologize for missing the solution in the link, I had updated that on LMG last week.
I was trying to obfuscate any possible solution of the upper digits with the fog, but I guess I was unsuccessful with that. The intended solution path was to use the symbol logic to work out all the low digits (1234), and once you get the digit in the upper right hand corner of the grid, then the fog clears to see the cage totals, and this allows you to finish the 56789 ... but you managed to do that anyway!
So you CAN figure out all the low digits with just the symbols and the coloring. The logic starts with R6C7. This can never be 1 - both R5C7 and R6C8 would need to be 4. And with the 'circular' pattern, the 14 pair will always go against the "inequality" symbol. (You can only have 1>4 and never 1
It's funny, I solved it similar to Mark's approach, but as I filled in the low digits, I saw this logic and wondered for a moment if I could have used that to break through much earlier. Apparently so!
Interesting, I used a different part of the puzzle to do the same thing.
1) R5C4 must be a pair with R4C4 because it has inequalities in both directions with it.
2) R5C3 and R5C5 are in the other pair and have the inequality connection R5C3>R5C4>R5C5.
3) Therefore, R5C4 must be in the 23 pair, R5C3 must be 4 and R5C5 must be 1.
4) Filling in the 4s and 1s uncovers the 7 cage, which tells us which way around the 23 pair goes.
Found out the hard way you don’t need the knights rule to figure out the low digits (Yep completely slipped my mind and made everything a pain).
The circular inequalities (box 1, 2-3, 8, 9) have to be low and necessarily parallel pairs of digits that add to 5 (box 2-3 could be the same pair twice). After doing as much as you can to color the grid with high/low, you have enough to find the low 2x2 at R4-5C3-4 and the entirety of box 7. The inequalities of the 2x2 require a pair that adds to 5 at R4-5C4.
The hardest deduction is that R4-5C3 is not a pair that adds to 5. You have to understand that the way the circular 2x2s (box 1, 2-3, 8, 9) see each other requires their parallel pairs be the same direction, then you can figure out R7,9C3 of box 7 can’t be a pair since R7C1 & R9C2 being a pair would need box 1’s 2x2 to have horizontal pairs and R7C1,3 not being a pair would need box 9’s 2x2 to have vertical pairs, so therefore: R,9C3 are not a pair and R4-5C3 are not a pair.
With R4-5C3 not being a pair, we can rule out R4-5C4 being 1-4 as R5C4 would need to be the 4 (due to the inequality at R5C4-5) and this leaves no spot for 1 or 4 in R4-5C3 (cannot satisfy the pair across box 4-5 and inequality of R4-5C3 at the same time). Therefore: R4-5C4 is a 2-3 pair, R5C5 is 1, and R6C4 is 4.
The next deduction is that the low digits at R5-6C7 have to be a pair. If they were not a pair, they’d have to include 1 or 4. The known 1 and 4 in box 5 and the inequality of R5-6C7 work together to disallow both. Therefore: R5-6C7 is a pair, this forces the 2x2 at box 2-3 to have vertical pairs, all other 2x2s have vertical pairs.
If R5-6C7 is a pair, the inequality at R6C7-8 is a true inequality, R6C7 cannot be 1. R6C7 cannot be 4 by the 4 in R6C4, therefore: R5-6C7 is a 2-3 pair.
The next steps to revealing the top right cages are pretty simple knowing everything we know now. All the 1s and 4s can be located without the knights move but the 2s and 3s have a deadly pattern even after knowing R1C9 is a 2.
These are some pretty cool logical deductions that could’ve been incorporated into a wicked hard puzzle.
(Note: It is true that all the parallel pairs run the same direction and must. This could be easily deduced by the line of sight to each other if it wasn’t possible for box 2-3 to have a duplicate pair. I glossed over this because the deduction that it can’t be a duplicate pair is stupid. It requires doing all the sudoku to see it forces R4-5C3 to not be a pair then following the exact same logic to realize R4-5C4 is a 2-3 pair, making R5C5 1, which makes R6C7 1, which cannot be greater than R7C7 which is a 2 or 3 and not a 4.)
Genius!
For me the solution path went with placing low digits in all boxes excluding 1, and few other digits. And thereafter the row 5 with boxes 4-5 have solved for 3s and 4s with further fast reveal of all other digits.
Thanks for the puzzle!
I solved it a bit differently than intended. I was having so much fun finding low digits and coloring them, I filled up the board with all the colored low digits. Finally, I deduced that my pink low digit was 4, so I double clicked pink and pressed '4', which cleared almost all of the fog in one go! It was a really fun puzzle.
this is the exact same way I solved it, finding all the positions of digits 1-4 and splitting them into four colors to fill in all at once. solve time of 26:07 from me, very sweet and clever puzzle when solving it with that logic.
Coloring the low digits was how I did it as well. Lots of fun and flowed really nicely that way.
I have the whole grid colored and was checking back in to see what's next (the shading of the oranges or something from Mark).
You mean there's some way to see what shade of blue is what?
It's that 2x2 up top between boxes2&3, isn't it ?
I haven't really looked at it.
?
Thanks
Nah, I can't decern which shade of blue is "4," at any given V it can go either way up there.
I don't know.
I'm lettering the orange now (have A and B done), if any one of those is both a higher cell AND a lower cell, it's not 9.
How could you decern those four shades of blue (one being a "4"), though?
Thanks
Yeah, same. To be fair, I believe that coloringh the lows is the intended solve path, and Mark strayed off it by colouring the highs. He also missed a knights move restriction on the lows between boxes 3 and 6, which would probably have gotten him the same way as well.
After you completely colour the lows, you can see that some colours have V's pointing both ways between them in different places, and that gives you the way in for the digits.
Very fun puzzle. I did coloured all the lows, then after clear the fog, I coloured some of the highs and I solve it! I am very happy with myself for solve this one. I am very tired of solving sudoku today but I still had some of my brain to solve this! 🎉
In these colouring puzzles, I think it'd be MUCH easier to not "double colour" where it's not necessary:
The blue marks "some low digit".
Green, purple, yellow, red mark "a specific low digit".
The blue in those cells is redundant. Just serves to clutter the puzzle.
When getting a number like 9 everywhere, remove the color.
When all 1-4 are found, remove blue.
Yeah lots of imporvments can be made but I don't think these dudes gets as lost as me / viewers in the clors..
Me: "Don't forget about the knight's move, don't forget about the knight's move, don't forget..."
Also me: *forgets about knight's move*
The moment he missed the red cell it was too late, with the grid getting fuller and fuller.
Yes ... YES! I wasted a life trying to solve this puzzle, gave up, just to see Mark reading the rules and then remembering "FFS the knight move!"
Such a fun solve! I worked the low digits first, using ABCD instead of colors. Once I spotted the "5" pairs, everything just cascaded.
43m14s. I appreciate how little the fog actually hid; just the values of the cages to get started on the high digit half once you finish the low digit half. I've gotta say, though, this is the first time I've painted a full four digit groups while under fog, so selecting and filling in all of the 4's and clearing up most of the fog was definitely a high point of the puzzle
I failed completely on this one ... looking at the 3 wheels that were entirely within a single box, I foolishly assumed they all had to go 4 > 3 > 2 > 1 > 4 and so once I had found the a colour cycle in the lower two boxes and a colour looking up from r9c2, I tried to use that logic to put the same cycle into box 1 ... and it b0rked in box 5 where I had a low cell that couldn't be _any_ of 1,2,3,4 ... it hadn't occurred to me that 4 > 2 > 3 > 1 > 4 was a possibility, which is just inept 😭
I wasted a bit of time at the start wondering if 9s were the break-in. They couldn't go in any cell pointed at by a V, and the knight's move restriction allowed a few other cells to be ruled out. Didn't get me very far, though.
Eventually I started colouring 1234s, one colour per digit, and a single colour for anything higher, similar to Mark, but solid colours rather than flashed low digits. (Mark could have continued colouring his low digits if he'd asked where yellow went in column 3; or yellow in box 4 and spotted the virtual x-wing in columns 1 and 2 - amounts to the same thing). I fully coloured, and then solved, all the low digits before looking at the high digits.
Is most of the fog redundant? The only cells that needed covering by fog seemed to be the two that contained the cage totals. Perhaps, aesthetically, it wouldn't have looked right with just two fog cells?
I finished in 102 minutes. I made an error that ended up costing me some time. I first concluded that Vs if going in the same direction and in the same box, must be 4 different numbers from 1234. I, then, saw that if it spanned two boxes, it also had the digits 1234, but it could also be two digits of a V, like 14 and 14 in a checkerboard pattern. My error came from not noticing that the Vs in r4&5c3&4 are not in a clockwise/counter-clockwise pattern but interrupted on r5c3. That would have saved me some headache if I payed attention. Otherwise, this was a really fun coloring puzzle that testes my visualization skills. Great Puzzle!
That design was both maddening and fun (unless u forget the knights rule). W/o unveiling fog
1) it's completely H/L colourable
2) it's almost completely letter solvable (8cells of Hpair)
3) u can choose b/W H or L DD to map digits.
But the maddening part is w/o fog cells. U cant
@) distinguish b/w 1 V pair(sums)
B) 1 high pair
To distinguish the L Vpairs, either orient them Hor or Vert in 2x2(if u forgot the knights rule)
44:39 - The different wheels were the way I found 1 and 4 before I got 2 and 3 over the 7-cage. In both different wheels the 1 is bigger than 4 (not really bigger but add up to 5) and that was the only thing couldn´t change in the wheel.
4 < 1 < 2 < 3
or
4 < 1 < 3 < 2
So red had to be 4 and green 1 what eliminated fog on r1c8.
If 4 > 1 than it wasn´t a wheel.
For me, the key was the low digits and box 5. I showed that r4c3 and r5c4 were the same digit, proving that r4c4 was their companion digit. That meant the >'s in row 5 were all greater than signs, meaning that r5c4 could only be 2 or 3, so that r4c4 was also part of the 23 pair. That let me divide the small digits into their pairs. I ended up solving all of the low digits before doing the high ones at all. :)
l tried breaking in by thinking about where the 9s can go. Any cell that has an arrow pointing at it is ruled out since 9 cant sum to 5 nor is smaller than any digit. You can rule out quite a few squares, but in the end there are too many valid possibilities to narrow it down. l guess l shouldve been thinking about the loops more, like mark did here
Finished in 46:33. Lots of heavy lifting being done by the knight's move rule. I would recommend coloring certain digits to get a good sense of what can be where.
Fun puzzle!
New personal best for me. I only forgot the anti-knight move twice during the solve :facepalm:
It tooks me 4 hours, but I just could not stop ... so fun and adictive (-: I was so proud of myself to finaly solve it (my hardest puzzle so far), just to read that there is another way to solve it in 20 minutes ? Iam not mad at myself at all - it was very fun 4 hours for me. Thank you! PS: I colored low and high digits, spotted 1-4 logic, but did not realized how to use it )-: so, i used ">" at high digits to eliminate 9 and than 5 and only after that I could use the cages to fill 2 and the others.
A marathon solve! Glad you persevered and followed it through to the end! 😁
That was a long slow 2 hour burn for me. When it finally started cracking I felt some relief, but it still took a good half hour to wind down to the solution. The forced v sum on the "rounded groups" and how it played out into the other cells was a brilliant piece of logic! Then having to play off the hidden thermo in the middle left of the grid...sublime!
Here I go again on my own
Going down the only road I've ever known
Like a drifter, I was born to walk alone
And I've made up my mind
I ain't wasting no more time...
Well, I guess I sort of did waste quite a bit of time. I solved this one ignoring the knights move constraint for most of my solve, only bringing it out after I'd worked out in a more convoluted way the high/low parity for the cells. I need a version of that token Mark has to help me remember. That or a big post-it note screaming "Read All Rules!" on the side of my monitor. lol
Very interesting puzzle and video. Having watched you solve it, Mark, I might be able to get through it with application to your video for help from time to time. I think I'll spend some time on it soon. Thanks, as always, for the video, the stream yesterday, the daily Wordle, the Patreon content - all so fun and wonderfully entertaining.
Very confusing but amazing puzzle. It took me ages.....
36:41 finish. At the end, I kept shouting for you to work the colors from the bottom, but you kept focusing on the numbers in the top boxes. You made it through in the end though. Fun puzzle, very colorful!
30:53 for me. And of course I forgot about the antiknight restriction until the very last second. Great puzzle anyways!
Finished in 1:24:01. One of the comments (which I can't seem to find anymore) tipped me off on where to place the low digits. Differentiating the high digits took the longest, I kept getting lost and restarting, unable to decide whether to use colors or letters.
I was actually considering how different it would be if the fog always cleared when you placed any digit, not just a correct digit. I think I would actually prefer it that way. One of my critiques of the fog mechanic is that it acts as sort of an always-on conflict checker: you can see that you messed up immediately when you messed up and not have to backtrack to figure out where you went wrong. By clearing the fog regardless of what the digit is then you can't do the "place every digit and see what clears fog" cheat.
Anyway, I resolved the low digits as soon as I colored in boxes 4 and 5. Purple in r4c3 and r5c4 had two V's with yellow in r4c4, meaning one of the V's had to be an =5 V. Knowing that purple and yellow added to 5, purple couldn't add to 5 with green and red, so the V's between green, purple, and red in r5 had to be inequalities, placing 4 in red and 1 in green. Then use the 7 cage in box 3 to resolve 2 and 3 in yellow and red.
I Should have also grabbed a knight and set it somewhere next to me. I sat here for way too long not remembering that little bit.
31:29
I really like the ambiguous clues style of puzzle but made a hash of this to start with, wasting way to much time trying to orientate the cyclic groups before high/low colouring the grid THEN orienting. Knight's move blind-spottery was the only difficulty after this.
A really nice puzzle.
40:04 for me. Great puzzle!
29:54 for me, surprised Mark didn't finish of the low coloring first, before doing the high digits.
Incredible puzzle
What a puzzle this one is. Enjoy!
I wouldn't know where to start on this one!
I was hoping for Mark to say “Bobbins Mac Bobbins Face I forgot about Knighty Mac Knight Face”🙄
124 minutes. I might have to watch more than the 1st 15minutes to see the good way to do this.
"I wont over cook my dinner without overcooking it"
Messed up a few times but got there. Don’t understand why Mark didn’t finish colouring the blues at the outset.
Simple explanation: He couldn't immediately spot how to.
(Asking where yellow went in c3 was one thing he could have asked.)
It's all about the colours
How did that one entry clear the fog when the number was wrong?
my best guess is the mass entry of the digit into multiple cells confused the answer checker for some reason
ah im mistaken - per the end of the video the puzzle setter didn't include a solution, so any digit was allowed to clear fog.
Someone on Logic Masters Germany had pointed out that I neglected to include the solution in the embedded link ... I had updated it on LMG, but I had already sent Mark the old link Sorry about that!
Is Knighty McKnight Face related to Bobbins McBobbins Face by any chance?
"Thank you, Knighty McKnight Face," Mark says at 13:11.
Does anyone remember where that came from?
(I've mentioned it a couple times)
Then when I researched it further, I know where that other reference came from.
Anyone remember?
I've mentioned them.
?
😂
I would love to know the story 😛
@@HalfBakedLunatic lol
It's a long story sort of lol.
I noticed on TBFQ (the big fat quiz) with Jimmy Carr.
(6 comedy panelists and Jimmy Carr hosting)
It's a once a year thing (2 end-year ones now ).
But one of the questions on there was about "Boaty McBoat Face."
Apparently, there was new research vessel, and they took a vote among all of the UK (well, in Britain and surrounding I guess-- Ireland and Scotland included maybe in other words ).
OH, on what to name it.
Well, the populace sent in a majority of "Boaty McBoat Face," but the naming committee ended-up calling it the "HMS Sir Richard Attenborough" or something.
I'll bet there were a lot of disappointed folks.
(Ramesh something on TBFQ being one of them - he was cursing about it in a comedic way -- but serious)
Well, I was wondering how did most of the UK (all on its own) send in "Boaty McBoat Face" by each individual?
So, I looked it up.
Apparently, there was an owl on a nature channel or something that was called "Owl McOwl Face."
So, from "Owl McOwl Face," to "Boaty McBoat Face,"
(with a lot of disgruntled people - them not choosing what they asked for),
to "Knighty McKnight Face."
A lot of folks probably still think of "Boaty McBoat Face" and are still bothered by that debacle.
😂
Good story?!
Told ya it was long lol. 😂
@@HalfBakedLunatic- You may have noticed, Simon saying "Bobbins McBobbins Face."
Mark does "Knighty McKnight Face," and Simon does "Bobbins McBobbins Face."
And I think Simon has done another.
Mark does "Knighty McKnight Face," though.
That's where it came from though (something in there is in the back of their minds).
😆
Cool?!
@@HalfBakedLunatic oh, you were expecting a Mark or Simon story?
No, this is an overall why they say it story.
That's where and why, though.
Enjoy 😆
Oh, "Boaty McBoat Face" from "Owl McOwl Face to Mark saying "Knighty McKnight Face" and Simon saying "Bobbins McBobbins Face."
Enjoy though 😆
54:54 for me
Spoilers: It's possible I made a mistake of logic and got lucky, but I placed the numbers in the following order: all 1's, all 4's, (a single 5), all 2's, all 3's, an 8, then the 9's...
That sounds like the order I entered digits too. I don't think there was any luck involved. 🙂
48:57 for me. quite mediocre solve. i was not happy with either of the parts. small numbers nor big.
First!
That is why fog puzzles are garbage. It is similar to having the software colour each digit green or red depending on whether it is correct or not. You can just fill in digits until you are told that one is correct.
You can do that - with any puzzle, not just fog puzzles. This is NOT a fog puzzle ... I just used the fog to hide some obvious answers that needed to wait till later in the solution path. Either way, if the puzzle is well designed, you can figure things out logically without guessing.
This bizarre comment is more a reflection of your misunderstanding than of flaws in the fog concept.