Why You DON'T Argue With An EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN Or Other FUNDAMENTALIST CULT MEMBER.
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- čas přidán 27. 08. 2022
- Don't argue with a Christian fundamentalist. Why? Because arguing with an evangelical or other fundamentalist is a waste of your time. You are debating with a cult member. I used to try to give reason to their world views and now I don't.
If you would like to read a tale of what I think the Apocalypse would be like if Christ ever returned, check out my novel, THE SECOND FALL. By Charles Hurst on the link below. (And I admit it is fiction but will offend the Christian fundamentalist nevertheless.) And may God bless you just not the God that floods the world and keep thinking for yourself whatever your beliefs.
www.amazon.com/SECOND-FALL-Ch...
And if you would like to journey on an tale I admit is fiction, check out THE SECOND FALL. An offbeat Apocalypse of what I think a Jesus would be like if he returned to Armageddon.
www.amazon.com/SECOND-FALL-Charles-Hurst-ebook/dp/B08RXKYBPN/ref=sr_1_5?crid=2J1CX1UQI4739&keywords=the+second+fall&qid=1669530076&sprefix=the+second+fall%2Caps%2C249&sr=8-5
I’m EXTREMELY lucky. I left the cult…I mean religion…at 32.
One time a Southern Baptist told me: "If the Bible said the sky was green, I would believe it." How can you argue with someone like that?
Arguing with a theist is pointless because their beliefs are built off blind faith. You’re not gonna get someone to logic their way out of a belief they didn’t logic their way into.
well put
Exactly! They are brainwashed
You mean like faith in an incomplete and half witted theory like the big bang that even scientists can't fully explain? Atheists believe we got here by random chance by faith. Seriously, oh brilliant atheist, how did we get here without intelligent design and can you prove it or are you acting on blind faith? Can you explain what scientists can't?
"Don't answer the foolish arguments of fools, or you will become as foolish as they are."
- Proverbs 26:4
This is slowly becoming clear on why I don't like religion....
“The Bible is the word of God” is the fundamentalists starting point. My starting point is “Is the Bible the word of God?”. So that makes it impossible to have a conversation on this topic.
The idea, surely, is not to try to convince them that you're right. The point is more modest: it's to get them to understand that you have thought, researched and understood things, and you are a reasonable person with reasonable grounds to disagree with their beliefs. Staying silent contributes to their veiw that they hold the only reasonable point of view.
They do not allow this either. They refuse to acknowledge that you are reasonable. They once again have scripture to prove to you that you are a fool and above all - EVIL!
You are 100% correct in what you say! I too avoid these people like the plague and I used to be one of them! I actually woke up to the insanity later in life at the age of 55, when I became involved with a pentecostal church here in Ireland. The Pastor of the church was a total control freak and I could see clearly that he was enjoying a nice living from the church. A church where his thoughts and decisions were never to be questioned! Now, I am an Atheist and I am finally freed from the hocus pocus of the big book of Bronze Age fairy tales!
Mr Hurst is absolutely correct. I have sustained a 60 year friendship with a fundamentalist Christian ( fortunately a rare species here in England) by mutual respect and by avoiding any controversial subject. I accept that nothing will ever change the mind of someone who has invested their whole life, hopes and dreams on a promise of surviving death. I wonder if such a friendship would be possible in the deep bible belt of the USA.
I must say I was a fairly mello Christian, until I met Fundies got born again then I was forced to wake up and think.
The science denying, the obvious brainwashing, dodging important questions, the blatant hypocrisy and lies, actually the worst people some of them.
Then the apologists Hovind, Comfort, Ham, William Lane Craig, J. Warner Wallace, John Lennox, Lee Strobel, The Discovery Institute. Led me straight out the door.
What a learning experience it has been though, terrific and wonderful.
I have done a few crummy things in my life but now "witnessing" is the most regretted and embarrassing. I hope i did not do too much harm.
Nobody's perfect--don't be so hard on yourself--DCF
@@debunkingthefundamentalist
Thanks but caring about others IS what made me, and I expect I can say us better than we were and lit the path out.
So, I can't help hoping I did not push anyone into a hole they could never get out of.
I usually tell Evangelicals that I worship Satan and I’m possessed with demons….they always end up running away! 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I’m as antitheistic as they come, but the one thing I’ve always appreciated about evangelicals is at least they have a strong opinion on the nature of reality. They are way off, and religion causes more suffering than it’s worth. But I always thought that if I was a believer in Christianity I’d probably end up being an evangelical or hardcore extremist. How could you not spend every waking moment trying to save your loved ones from hell if you genuinely believed in it. I don’t understand how you could believe the Bible is the genuine word of god and not be extreme in it. It’s the “Christian-lite” who are alright with us being tortured for an eternity. Lol.
Good point. However not every Christian who reads the Bible reaches the conclusion that people are consigned to conscious eternal torment postmortem. Christian Universalists believe that ALL 'sinners' are saved in the end. The Hebrews don't believe in hell either. Their is no mention of fiery eternal torment to be found anywhere in their scriptures. They do believe in 'Gehinnom', but this is not hell, but rather it is a place of spiritual cleansing and purification. Should spiritual cleansing not always be fully effective, such souls are reincarnated instead. (I only found out about this recently, I didn't know Jews actually believed in reincarnation!). The point is this. Let's just say there was nothing to save us from. Just suppose the Universalists are correct and we will all be saved in the end. All fundamentalist preachers would be out of a job for a start, since they would no longer be able to threaten the rest of us with hell fire and damnation. Instead of financially leeching off the fears of others, they might have to get real jobs instead.
@Jay Kay Very good point.
Whether Christian's like it or not, Mormonism is evangelical Christianity, so one Sunday I am in sacrament and my wife asked me what I wanted for Christmas and I whispered an anatomically correct Nancy Reagan yes doll. Apparently it wasn't quite quiet enough because a few members said Satan had my soul. I am grateful for that moment on my journey to atheism
"I have never argued with an
ignorant fool and won; nor
have I argued with a
rational person and lost...
Imam Ali (AS)
The thing is, as Christians our service is not in winning arguments, but in getting people to Christ. When the resistance is futile, one need walk away and hope they truly find Christ along the way..
✌❤🙏
That just sounds like you are not out to have a discussion, but to preach one-sidedly. I have to tell you that is very ineffective if you just bombard someone with fantastical claims and close off anything they say back. They will just become frustrated with you and will not bother with you, since you don't see them as equal in a conversation. Good luck, I guess.
Please do your channel a favor and lower the music volume by at least 6dB.
I definitely know that fundamentalist and evangelicals are cult-like even most churches are cults that I also get annoyed by Ray Comfort with him trying to force his beliefs on a random person by trying to make them feel bad.
I agree with you wholeheartedly. I spent two years trying to argue for reality with a fundamentalist YEC catholic once and it was utterly futile. He said the bible was inerrant so I pointed out a bunch of errors in it and he just refused to accept they were errors. But I do have a new tack. Matthew 21 verses 21 and 22. Jesus promises that if any true believer prays to god for something it WILL be granted even if it's to move a mountain into the sea. Get any of them to read that and then pray for something simple like refill your empty beer glass with beer. When it doesn't happen you've proved either they're not a true believer or jesus is a liar.
I finally came to the point where I just won't be friends with any of them. As for decades every encounter if you hang around them long enough is them trying to evangelize. They simply cannot keep their faith to themselves.--DF
I like how direct you are with your comments. Yes they may seem harsh but it’s the truth
If you dropped the pointless background music, you wouldn't have to yell over it.
It is a futile effort to argue with fundamentalists. Their own Book tells them what to think of us, and though they believe that portion they make up their own Bible for all else. Your better off without them.
And if you argue with them you are satanic and persecuting them.
They are always right. Very brazen volatile demeanor.
The efforts are futile because you can't argue with dishonest people whose moral compass has no dial. They will say ANYTHING, without regard to whether it's true. They suffer from the lack of ability to reason that is common ANYONE who believes in gods - evangelicals and Christians in general are not unique in that respect. I find the liberal, modern Christian even more annoying with their versions of this nonsense, especially because they have to cherry-pick their holy texts AND science even more than the evangelicals they criticize for doing exactly the same thing. In the end, it's just the same evidence-free beliefs in transparent nonsense.
Fundamental means you have to have a basis.
picking at nits I know ... they are evangelicals not evangelists. Evangelists are ministers who sometimes preach in Evangelical churches.
Ruin their fundamentalist day by giving them a Gnostic/Sanatan Dharma argument.
This is why the Constitution was written.
I've always have said they have freedom of speech. And I have freedom to not listen to it---DCF
Please watch and share my four brief videos in which I present examples of scientific facts contained in the Bible; facts that today's scientists agree with. Thank you!
Look up Bill Hicks on Religion, "So God is a Prankster"
I'm older than you. So I know more😊 if you or anyone could exchange thoughtful and valid ideas with them they wouldn't be where they are. You give them way too much credibility, they don't read any translation of the bible.
There is nothing to argue about. John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them, even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son.
If you do not want to discuss Jesus Christ or God, just wait until after the resurrection and discuss it directly with Jesus Christ.
You realize that by saying "Nuh-uh, the Bible says", you're proving him right.
Yeah and Kafufullmunchine Big Foot will come to eat grapes and steal the Goat.
Just as usful.
Science is real... just look what "science" accomplished during covid! 😅
I know atheists who do this too. Some atheists are just too religious for me.
Maybe you have been arguing with people who just don't know how to say "I dont know". But that doens't mean you have found the answer to your questions. Your better of arguing and asking questions to christian appolegetics. The authenthicity of the bible is a easy one. But the question of science and genensis is a tough one if you dont examin both sides of the debate.
No bud the authenticity of the bible is far from easy since it doesn't comport to what we know.
There is a line attributed to Emerson, "If you strike at a king, you must kill him." This video doesn't get the job done. You don't debunk the Bible by name-calling and ridicule. Yes, I believe that Christian theism is false, and indeed that all theism is false, but you can't disprove it. It is in fact unfalsifiable, and making fun of people who believe the King James text doesn't help much. I would agree that Young Earth Creationism and its ilk are silly, but a number of intelligent, well-educated people believe it. Most of them have been brought up in it it would seem, but they are still intelligent and well-educated. Jason Lisle, an astrophysicist with a PhD from a real university, believes in it and preaches it, and he is very smart and there are plenty like him. While I agree with the underlying message of this video, the presentation is silly and irritating.
His tone seemed to me to be equally fundamentalist.
@@nickg5010 Yes. You make a good point. He wants to dismiss the fact that Christian theism has been the dominant force in Western society for nearly two millennia. Not everyone who believes in it is a fool. I don’t believe in it, and I believe that no gods exist, but the issue isn’t that clear, and I certainly don’t claim to have knowledge that no gods exist. He is taking a strident position of certainty with respect to matters that the wisest among us treat with great caution.
You can't fight tribalism with more tribalism.
No. I don't think you understand. By playing these games with the mentally ill Christians, you are granting them unearned legitimacy and unearned respect. Disrespect is a valuable tool in the tool box. There's a reason you don't hear pro-slavery proponents talking about how we must own black people in the public square. We have shamed them into silence. Silence is golden in some cases. We shouldn't be normalizing this infantile religious delusional nonsense.
Shame is a social tool. We use it all the time. The only reason we dance around the mentally deluded religious brats is because their ancestors murdered atheists and anybody who didn't kiss their ass. From inquisitions to witch hunts, we've seen their religious illness spiral out of control. And for what? Their god delusion character has hurt feelings? The rain came/didn't come? Somebody's favorite dog got sick? Is that sufficient reason to hunt down those who do not participate in this delusional nonsense?
I'm sure this will offend some Christians and Christian-sympathetic atheists such as yourself. but I don't want to "save Christians". They're already lost. They're not special. They're not worthy of my time or consideration. They're not important even if they are suffering from main character syndrome. (You shouldn't be helping in their narcissism either. That's not helping them. They already think some god character loves them and another god like character is out to kill them. They're a little too egotistical and need to learn a bit of humility.)
So why am I rude and disrespectful? Because there are people who aren't that damaged or mentally deluded. They are thinking. They are grappling. They are deconverting because that is the human thing to do when confronted with the nonsense of religion and the reality of well, reality. If they don't hear that push back, that casual disrespect, that righteous anger against the evils of religion.. they might never know to look or grant themselves the right to ask those questions. They'll be trapped in a dark maze and they don't understand that there is an exit. Well, my disrespect shines a light in the darkness. It's still on the deconverting Christian to do all the hard work. They're not children. They can figure out what is right for them to do. I just want them to be aware that they do have options.
As for the "X smart person believes" .. that's a silly argument. I wouldn't go to Einstein for disease management. I would go to a subject matter expert and seek their particular advice in their particular area of expertise. Even there, we sometimes have conflict and we'll seek a third opinion. I really don't understand why an astrophysicist has any more knowledge than my dog does concerning religious matters. I'll go to your astrophysicist for astrophysicist things. I'm not going to go to him for religious stuff. (BTW - it's technically called compartmentalization. They don't use the same rigorous standards when it comes to their religion. In other words, they grade on a curve and make exceptions for their religious nonsense . this is what happens when children are indoctrinated before their brains have developed enough for them to understand and critically evaluate religious stories. In other words, your astrophysicist is thinking like a child when he thinks via his religion. He's resorting to a very old neuronal pattern that hasn't been updated to even a teenage level understanding of religion.)
If you want to be polite and save the Christians, go for it. I don't think you'll have significant success but it's your choice. I'm fine with atheists using a multiplicity of tactics to access a broad range of demographics. You do your polite thing and I'll do my rude thing.
As a final point, I hope you understand that people present differently online to their "real" world. You can use a multiplicity of approaches based on venue. It's all about adapting and using the tool you believe will have the greatest chances of success at your objective. Online you might be different from workplace you will be different from the you that you present to your friends and family. Politeness is a social tool, not a absolute maxim. We can selectively use varying levels of politeness to achieve our objectives. There is no one size fits all rule here. Politeness can be an asset or a hindrance. The world is more than black and white and polite and impolite. I dislike this fundamentalist traditionalist blind deference to politeness. Politeness can make one complicit with great evil. It's just a tool to ease social interactions. It's not a moral precept. Next time you want people to be polite, give a good reason. Otherwise, it comes off as arrogant and mindless.
@@jenniferhunter4074 I am afraid that I have to disagree with you. Comparing a belief in god with the endorsement of slavery in the 21st Century is a bad analogy. I am a life-long atheist and had the good fortune to have not been raised as a believing Christian, and thus never went through the trauma of breaking away from a strongly held belief and, perhaps more painful, from the community of believers of which the believer had been a member. On the other hand, my late wife was a devoutly religious Jew. She coexisted with my atheism, and I with her beliefs, in a comfortable way for over thirty years, and she was by no means a mentally deluded religious brat.
Your anger seems to be directed largely at Christians, and your obvious rage seems to be fairly personal, but it's a bit irrational to extend that rage to all Christians. I don't like much of what one sees in American Christianity today, but I have certainly known devout Christians who were not strident, angry or judgmental, and genuinely sought to express their beliefs through charity, kindness and good works. I am not trying to save Christians or Christianity. I look forward to the day when religions and superstition disappear, and more directly, when American Christians have no influence on our laws and government, but I grew up among Christians in a small Midwestern town, and they were mostly kind, decent human beings.
While my belief in the efficacy of politeness may be arrogant and mindless as you suggest, it is probably as much a product of my generation, as I grew up in the years following World War II when politeness, at least in public, was still the norm. On the other hand, raging at people on CZcams or in print, calling them 'damaged or mentally deluded', doesn't advance one's argument very much, and I tend to believe that politeness tends to lead to better result. I worked as a lawyer on Wall Street for forty years, and I always found that politeness and good manners tended to get better results, even if you loathed and despised your opponent or counterpart. Of course, there were times when politeness and good manners didn't work and had to be put aside, but in my experience that tended not to be the best initial approach. For example, your reply to my reply to the video comes across as little more than a self-indulgent expression mindless anger, filled with name-calling and vituperation, and is frankly puerile. You would convince nobody who wasn't already in agreement with you, which was the point in my original comment to which you have reacted. You, like Charles Hurst who produced the CZcams video in question - and apparently is the author of a truly dreadful novel called The Second Fall on the same theme (I base this on having read about three pages for free on Amazon) - seem to feel that a broad-based attack replete with name-calling and warrantless conclusions regarding the mental stability, intelligence and motives of your presumed opponents is the way to go. Good luck with that going forward. Your might with to try Mr. Hurst's novel, as it can be downloaded for free on Kindle if you are an Amazon Prime member. Perhaps you will have found a kindred spirit.
😂 funny video but your points were not on-point
I actually think you might be sick or hurt🤕. "Treat them like they have schizophrenic" also "I have this book that is sure to infuriate them".
I used to be an athiest and diehard hater of Christianity, until Jesus opened my eyes and set me free from worldly wisdom, once you know the truth the truth will set you free. You need to seek Christ, you can say cult this and that, but you came into this life not knowing why and you will leave not knowing what is beyond.
He's not real
@@ethio1931 he wasn't for me and now he is. Ur opinion on God being real or not doesn't change the fact that God exists. You can't create yourself, and organism can't create itself, if you think that then why did the organism have to change if it knew where it had come from, to now not knowing where it has come from?
@@99kakaman saying, God exists doesn't make it so. Accept the reality that it's unfalsifiable and that's why you have to rely on faith. The absence of evidence and the things hoped for
@@ethio1931 well faith is only for those that believe, faith can come from calling on God's name Jesus and him showing himself to you. It would be the case that you live in a world with design whom you call evolution yet can't prove where evolution comes from. Even when I was an atheist I asked these questions about the questions, only lead to more questions and no answers. Well the answer is God, if you humble yourself and call on Jesus he will reveal himself to you. Unless if you keep believing he isn't then you will keep living in the delusion of living without answers and always seeking but never coming to an understanding of the truth. So seek my friend,God loves you and he wants you to find him. He has always been there.
Wow. You're one of those "born again" types. Gee, did you get dunked in water, and then the ultimate truth opened up to you?
You're just a noob. You don't understand anything other than your emotional needs. Born again yesterday isn't something to be proud of. You just made a default choice because, for some reason, you needed to be "emotionally rescued".
You Evangelicals are the world's most disrespected religious group, and you focus entirely on your own emotional comfort and a perpetual, all-consuming obsession with self-preservation.
You're just a sanctimonious asshole, and you don't know Jack Shit. Again: You're just a noob.
Middle Finger.
This video is flat out wrong
Insulting people into trying to agree you. The Bible is accurate with evidence and authorship.
Hopefully you will get out of this atheist echochamber and see the love of Christ.
@Jay Kay Like I said that their is evidence and didn't insult to get my point across.
@@razoredge6130 Even Christian scholars admit they don't know authorship. How did Moses record his own death? Who was snooping on Jesus when he snuck away in the garden or was off with Satan on the mountain top?
@@miconis123 Jesus could have told them after the resurrection and the likely hood of being a disciple writing the gospel. The author knew very too many specific details about the disciples. (Also no offence but I think you are making a fallacy)
@@miconis123 czcams.com/video/_jaLCzTrjJY/video.html
@@razoredge6130 The disciples traveled together and worked together, and yet reported things differently. As for "could have", that's speculation and not supported by the Bible its self
You sound as if you have debated Christians and lost time after time. Sad.
How would a Christian win once much less time after time?
No christian has a clue
@@miconis123 William Lane Craig? John Lennox? Rowan Willaims?
@@TBOTSS Names are how?
@@TBOTSS these christian cronies you listed have been debunked time and time again. get a clue.