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were any of the recommended changes suggested by the NTSB actually implemented? The NTSB can only make recommendation and cannot actually enforce changes being made, so it's never clear if they are ever actually made - - Oh @ 2:44 you show that gates have been installed, but I guess there's no way of knowing WHEN they were put there... with ALL THE REGULATION in the states there is a HUGE LACK of inter-department communication... it's like it has been PURPOSELY made to be as complex and useless as possible... and NO ONE knows when something is a LAW or a SUGGESTION.... OR where to find this out... BUT if you do 'break' a suggestion, you will STILL BE CHARGED AND FINED because EVEN THE COURTS don't know if it is a REAL LAW or if they are even allowed to fine you... so they just set the fine anyway, and the vast, VAST, VAST MAJORITY of people just PAY THE FINE because it would cost WAY MORE to get a lawyer and a lot of effort to fight the fine, (and takes up a bunch of time) so people just pay the fines and get on with their life... and I believe THIS IS THE GOVERNMENTS PLAN ALL ALONG!! lol ... wait... what were we talking about???? .... ohh yea... R.I.P. Children 😢
I remember as a kid the bus would always stop before a railroad crossing, open the door so they could listen for the train horns, and tell us all to be quiet before eventually driving across when they deemed it safe. I remember even being impressed that such young kids actually did shut up during crossings. I guess we understood how dangerous it could be if the driver couldn't hear.
Same. It always makes these kinds of accidents seem even crazier to me. But maybe part of that is the difference between going to school in the late 90s versus the early 70s.
I remember this too. I started wondering if trains were invisible cuz how could you miss seeing one? Then i realized it could be foggy. We always stayed at the stop until everyone was quiet for 15 seconds.
I'm sure before crashes such as this the prevailing attitude of administrators and regulators was "Surely nobody would be dumb enough to try and outrun a train with a school bus loaded with children."
Not defending his negligence at all but sounds like the guy needed two jobs in order to survive and I'm sure his boss didn't give a hoot WHY he was gonna be late. Not defending him for a second but people not having adequate time to fo their jobs in industry has cost way more lives than this before. We don't only need to vet people in responsible positions more (but that would be a communist regulation big government nono in the USA) and also pay people adequately for a job so they don't need to rush (which would make billionnaires sad and therefore is also a nono)
Wrong. The vad design is the route cause. Operator error will always occur. Also What about a deaf driver? Or a sudden heart attack? No. Ah just blame the driver instead if putting in good designs to keep our children safe. Safety isn't your priority. Cheers.
Ya annnnee you're right. Cant have any of that communist crap around thdse parts right? Jobs that give workers thoughtful hours and enough pay are too.socialistic and will.cut.into the profits of the billionaires so ... A lot of times I just hate America.
@@BromellFilmCorpI normally agree with that sort of idea and it is absolutely its own separate issue, but that's just the thing, that isn't at all what happened. Just someone choosing to risk a packed schoolbus of children to try and fix a mistake they already made
I think this was a common problem in the US in the 60s and 70s. In 1968, I was 10, and my bus driver played "Beat the Train." We were all screaming, but we all survived. Tiny was fired that evening. (Yes, that was his name, and he was a monster before he attempted to kill us.)
5 years probation for clearly disobeying traffic laws is ridiculous. This may have been before school buses had to stop at all railroad crossings, but thank God they have that rule now.
What? They didnt have such law before?! i mean... they didn't have such law for every type vehicle before? And what's now? They implemented this but only for school buses? America is so medieval and f****d up tbh...
IIRC, this wreck was why that rule was made. I rode school buses in the 1970's and somewhere in the mid-70's, school buses started doing that. They had to stop and open the door at all RR crossings.
The must stop at all rail crossings law was the cheap “solution” that did not address other risky driver behavior. Even today bus drivers do not get enough supervision and support to reduce driver stress and limit poor driving.
@@gerardwall5847 One thing at a time. Even private, truck companies require stopping at all railroad crossings; although, that's more of a pragmatic thing to avoid damage or harm to the truck, driver, or contents from driving fast over tracks that stick out too much.
Man, five dead children and dozens more permanently injured, with the driver getting probation. I can't imagine how I would feel if the man responsible for my son's death got off so lightly.
Well, did he ever do anything like that again? If not the punishment would seem to have been sufficient. After all it's not the purpose of the legal system to inflict pain on wrongdoers so that everyone else can feel better.
@@TillyOrifice What kind of L-take is that? I won't even write "lol" because what you wrote is just painful to read 😧 Jesus, some ppl are truly something else.
As a school bus driver, THIS is why our motto is "Safety over Schedule". Nothing is more important than those kids' lives. Even if it means you're late to your second job (which you shouldn't even need because being a bus driver should pay the bills but i digress). This tragedy was avoidable and that bus driver had to live with that decision for the rest of his life.
My aunt drove for 8 years and quit due to the politics of it. She said the job itself (driving, the kids, being out and about) was great, but the school district, administration, and clique mentality was horrific. That and the lack of benefits.
It seems like in every school kid's career there was always a story of that one bus driver that was reckless. I remember one driver that would fly over speed bumps to see how high he could get the kids in the back to fly. Crazy.
Yup. My 6th grade bus driver used to do this at the same speed bump every day. Some kids thought it was hilarious, I remember flying in the air and watching kids hit the ceiling, sounding like loud bang snaps. I hated it, it was uncomfortable and painful. Seatbelts just made it hurt worse. One day while I got off at my stop I asked him "why do you have to drive over that speedbump like that everyday?" And he said "Because it's fun?" Left me speechless.
My 7th grade bus driver, Mel. He was one of the biggest assholes you could ever meet. I don’t say that out of spite. I say that because of the things he did. It wasn’t so much risks that he took while driving because he really didn’t do that. It was more how he treated the kids on his bus. Especially the special needs kids. We had one girl that had cochlear implants with very visible external devices. He refused to listen when her parents told him what they were. He thought they were really meant for listening to music when she shouldn’t be. After about a week he started telling her that she needed to take them off so she could listen to his instructions. Us kids told him that if she took them off then she wouldn’t be able to hear him. He wrote like 7 of us up, myself included, for insubordination and distracting the driver. All because we defended her. After that he yanked the devices off of her head and snapped them in half. The yanking part hurt because she had just had them implanted only a couple of months prior. So she hadn’t fully healed from the surgery yet. As soon as we got to school we told the principal exactly what we witnessed. He got suspended. That was it. He cost her family thousands of dollars to get new devices and another surgery since back then you couldn’t just get new external pieces. They had to be manually paired with the implants.
@@mcrchickenluvr - wow, that's so awful! That poor girl! Thank goodness you and your fellow classmates reported him. Still, his punishment didn't fit the crime either. Unreal!
@@yepitsme3336 no it really didn’t. He was suspended for I think 2 weeks. And he got paid. What did he do with that time instead of growing a pair of cherries? He took his wife on a vacation. He came back to work with a nice tan while my friend came back to school with new surgery scars. She did get some level of justice though. CPS actually did their jobs and investigated him and his wife. As far I know he’s still behind bars for taping his daughter.
Considering the type of accident and were it got hit, its kind of a miracle in some ways that 5 kids died. If you look at the wreck and got told to guess how many, just my guess would be much higher.
It’s due to how school buses are engineered in the US. They are engineered to such a rigorous safety standard that a train can hit a bus and most of the kids still survive. The black lines also tell fire departments where they can cut to extract the kids from the bus.
@@LeadTrumpet1 That's actually only true since the 50's I believe. There was a pretty infamous bus-fire, as a result of an accident that shouldn't have been so bad... EXCEPT the NTSB (or it's earliest roots) found that school buses were engineered like "giant sheetmetal tissue boxes on wheels" and not the pig-iron behemoths we find so familiar today. ;o)
This is the first time, that I recall, hearing about the driver having a second job and perhaps being in a rush to get to it. Thanks for that extra bit of information.
@@thaddeus5944 I think alot has to do with savings & budget They're off for the summer & most folks cant go that long without spending all their money!
While it absolutely does not excuse or justify his actions, it's an important context, and likewise it's the first time I've heard it in respect of this crash.
This overloading doesn't happen today. I drive in Canada and there is a seating limit. You cannot pack a bus like that with kids standing up. The rule is this : If you're late, stay late. Do not rush, do not take shortcuts. Just do your run in order and get the kids to school safely. Not saying there are no accidents, but this company didn't have limits on the amount of students in a 72 passenger bus. We never run at 72 passengers. That is too many. I have had as many as 62.
I drove for my county, having children standing up is common as we don't have enough busses and drivers. I complained every time they made me do this, because I didn't want to be on the hook for any injuries.
I drive over here in the UK and overloading isn't nessiserrly a thing but there are still limits in place that drivers will go up to. I have had 70+ on in the past. I think the big factor that played into this one was time pressure
Not sure on firemen, but most EMTs I know get in the habit of or enjoy driving recklessly because they're used to having the justification to do that in ambulances and other emergency vehicles. I could see that this bus driver/fireman may have had the same mindset with his driving.
You're not sure on emts, either. I was career fire/ems and I wasn't in the habit of, nor did I enjoy driving recklessly. I'm not in the habit of, nor do I enjoy driving recklessly now. To correct your misconception, we are also not justified in the reckless operation of emergency vehicles. Going through red lights or overtaking oncoming traffic while running lights and sirens, for example, is not driving recklessly.
One of the EMTs in my area recently hit a child and I've heard the others discussing this like the kid shouldn't have crossed the street. I've nearly been hit by them myself and they hop curbs and other things. The local EMTs are reckless, so I wasn't sure if the bus driver may have been the type of person who took the job as an excuse to drive recklessly. I know there are safe drivers among EMTs and the work they do is usually wonderful, but I also know the local ones at least have several people who just see it as a free pass to drive recklessly.@@elizabetholiviaclark
I've heard of this incident before and wondered if the driver's judgement was impaired due to sleep deprivation, but I hadn't realised he was behind schedule and would therefore be late for his other job. I do find it strange that people with such important and potentially hazardous jobs, such as emergency responders, are paid so poorly that they require a second job.
The crossing was also lined by trees which combined with the Brunswick green paint of the penn central locomotives basically made them almost invisible.
Wow, I doubt 5y probation would fly these days. Also, I love it when you cover a disaster story that includes the NTSB as working there is my dream job!
Unfortunately if you think about how light child ab**ers get treated, it’s not hard to imagine it wouldn’t be that much worse for a bus driver. We just have new rules in place that should prevent it. 🤷♀️
This is a sad one. I want to feel bad for the bus driver because he was a firefighter and a bus driver. Sounds like a good person in general, but if being a bus driver means you have to rush to your firefighting job and putting children's lives in danger, I find it hard to feel sorry for him. I do however, feel sorry for all those kids who had no choice but to ride a bus to school driven by this guy. I think the most sad part about it, is this could be any bus driver. I'm sure they don't get paid very well so need a second job. Just seems like a problem with the industry as a whole.
Quite a few bus drivers that are full time are able to live on just that. Just depends on the area I suppose. Id sure hope they get paid decently. Had a teacher that was on his 17th year? He just slept, made 200,000 with 100,000 being a bonus
@@Steve.._. My father was a school bus driver for 25 years (and a damn good one) and he at least was not paid incredibly well. He did have a second (self-employed) job to help support the family but thankfully never rushed because he made his own hours. Actually there were times the school board forced them to drive on icy roads and he and other drivers would say no. The school board were the bad guys in his case quite often. This story actually reminds me of a girl that was killed locally when they forced the school buses out in a blizzard and poor visibility caused her to get struck by a car. And then the students and staff (including my dad) all got stranded at the school and had to stay overnight. Real geniuses the school board were.
It is a crying shame that a firefighter (and emergency workers in general) of all things needs a second job to get around! But it ofcdoesn't excuse risking children's life!
@@Zhuria When I was a young child, there was a bus driver for the county who lived up in the mountains, far enough that they even allowed him to keep the bus he drove at his house... One winter he and his bus (which were unusually reliable) didn't show for work, and the phone lines were down... Everyone knew the county (outside of the proper city) had taken the recent wintry mixes and storm hard over a weekend... BUT the school board had an emergency meeting after the 3rd day of no-show and no communication anyway... When their delegation of 5 showed up, apparently, there were some confrontational words exchanged before the driver (a near legend around here) threw the keys for the bus out the window at them, and told them that they had 3 days (something of a State Law minimum) to get that bus off his property before he contacted a lawyer and took them to court for as far as he could push it... Well... when they got to the bus (in spite of finding his house nearly buried in snow)... They found that the machine was so hopelessly frozen down to the ground they couldn't even get through the ice to open ANY of the doors, not emergency exits in the rear or on top... nothing. SO it would take a further 6 weeks before legal procedure could even be started (a LOT of traffic accidents, issues, and mostly a colossal governmental clusterf*** for the stormy winter)... BUT the old man REFUSED to settle, and the courts weren't so sympathetic to the school board (almost all of whom had residence IN the city "proper"). He got his job back, a BIG bonus for eliminating countless suffering, and practically a guarantee of employment for life. It was a humiliating (if only locally so) defeat... and the school board "restructured"... I remember it because it was one of the stories often repeated when we "city school kids" would ask why the County Schools had such a different schedule to ours... or why we "county kids" had such high tuitions to go to the city schools, regardless of whether you were a mile out of town or 20 miles... or even in the next county over... Yeah, councils and boards of "elected officials" have a great capacity to screw up... AND when the STATE government tells you to "shut up and pay the man his due"... it's pretty obviously "code" for "You f***ed up royal, so apologize and hope you can even seek your job in a year." It's still "touchy" to bring up city people doing anything "leadership" to help county people in this area... {and by "touchy" I mean, you CAN get shot for suggesting it in certain circles} haha... ;o)
speaking of bus disasters, look into the yuba city bus disaster that happened a few years later in california. per the wiki, its the deadliest highway disaster ever investigated by the ntsb. would be an interesting one to cover. great vid as always
@@PlainlyDifficult Now can you make a video about the 1963 Chualar bus crash which happened in Southern California 60 years ago today? Which is the deadliest bus crash in us history?
Have you done a video on the 1976 Yuba City, California school bus accident - known as the Martinez crash in Ca. school bus industry. It caused changes in school bus design, driver training, and a redesigned exit ramp from the highway. It might be interesting research 🙂 I am a former school bus driver trainer and have heard some of the details.
This is also how my cousin died and caused the death of 2 others in his car. He thought to outrun the train at an unguarded train crossing too, and lost. This type of crossing only had those blinking lights when a train is coming but no beams. In the rural area they lived it was a known «game» to speed up the car and cross the unguarded crossing just as a train was coming too. The goal was to cross just before the train reached the crossing. Stupid juvenile adrenaline game obviously. You will always loose a game like that with a train. In my cousins case the train hit the back of his car and the car was then catapulted into a tree. All in the car died. Only in their early 20’s and late teens. I loved my cousin but will always be angry at him for causing so much grief 😔 They were dumb cocky kids, the busdriver in this story was an adult and should be over such risk taking behaviour! Truly a disgusting tale. I feel so sorry for those kids and their families.
In my school district in central NJ, one snowy morning my sister's bus got stuck in the snow. The driver couldn't get it out, so she had the kids, a mixture of elementary and middle school students, get out and push. When a replacement bus arrived, she was fired on the spot!
Oh hey neat, I wrote the script on this topic for Fascinating Horror. Glad to see other people covering it. A point of correction: PC Train WV-1 was lead by 2 *U25B* (U-25-B) and one *U33B* (U-33-B) locomotives.
Reminds me of the school bus/ train crash that happened when i was in high school so somewhere between 1989-91, a bus driver had a medical emergency ( i think it was a heart attack but my memory is a little hazy on the tragedy) and the bus came to a halt at the rail crossing and got hit by a train , there were 2 fatalities ( the driver who may have already been dead when they train hit and one student who was sitting immediately behind the driver and was instant killed at the impact.) and numerous injuries ranging from minor to serious. Also 5 years of probation is ridiculous punishment for what happened. I hope he was also barred from operating a bus ever again.
There was a video about the mental impact these have on the train operator. That moment he hit they hit the breaks knowing it will only soften the blow, is haunting.
I was born that year, riding school buses just 5 years later. The school bus stopped at all railroad crossings, opened the door before continuing on. I'm assuming this rule was put in place from this incident?
I was about to comment saying the same thing. I always thought it was a bit odd as an elementary school student, but now that I know about these incidents I'm glad they made all the bus drivers do this.
My dad lived right up the street when he was a child. When i was little, he told me how he ran down the street to see the accident. There were bloody handprints from the children on the windows. It traumatized me then
I dated a retired train engineer/conductor. His father was a career engineer but my friend preferred the conductor role as he hated the level crossings like thesewhile operating a mile long freight train. His Dad had 3 or 4 car train hits in his career, and was able to deal with them appropriately. Being in northern Canada our trains back then had tne pointy scoop on the front to deflect charging Moose and other large game.
I don't blame him. I used to ride commuter rail a lot and saw people effectively play "chicken" with a train going up to 79 MPH. It's scary since you know even if you hit the brakes, you would stop WELL beyond them!
For those of you Of a Certain Age, you may remember Schoolhouse Rock and "I'm Just a Bill." (first aired September 18, 1975) czcams.com/video/OgVKvqTItto/video.html "Bill" was the proposed law that all school buses must stop at all RR crossings, which was the law passed in the aftermath of this incident.
I have the whole set on video, actually. But thank you for that tie-in! P.S. Look carefully at the American map composed of people at the end of _The Shot Heard Around the World,_ and you'll see that the woman who represents the state of California is nude.
Many teachers today show schoolhouse rock since the resources to adequately teach critical thinking skills are not adequate it is not the most ideal situation except many Gen Z here remember these videos
Well into the 1990s, Nyack High School held an annual Festival Day to celebrate the young lives lost that day. When people say that "laws are written in blood," that was certainly the case here and many new rules governing school bus construction, safety, and operation, railroad level crossing protection, and driver training and certification came into effect as a result. And yes, Rockland County is a nice place to live. It was basically just farmland until the 1950s and the opening of the Tappan Zee Bridge and the New York State Thruway spurred rapid population growth, so fixing an "unprotected" crossing on a lesser-used road wasn't quite a priority. The West Shore (train) Line ended passenger service in 1959, leaving only freight service since then.
I grew up in NJ right over the NY/NJ border and remember this story. Years later, I made friends who lived just around the corner from the spot. My friend's father drove a school bus in NYC. It was believed that the driver was railroaded into taking the blame. According to him, the many factors that were hidden. One was the breaks were in poor condition, the rail crossing signs were poorly located and marked, and a few other factors I can't remember. It was a sad situation all the way around. Shortly after this gates were installed at the crossing.
I've always wondered how many Train vs School bus accidents have been prevented solely by the act of opening the door. Like the crossing lights/bars (if present) were not working, the driver was unable to see the train approaching when stopped, and the only reason the driver became aware of the trains presence was opening the door.
What a horrible tragedy. I was 5yo in USA at the time and walked to school by myself on sidewalks. These boys were high school aged. So much potential to succeed in life. Such a horrible, horrible tragedy. As a parent of 2 boys, I can't imagine the deep sense of loss. My sons mean EVERYTHING to me. They define my life because everything I do is for them now and in the future. My life's work is so that they can succeed in the future.
These sorts of crossings are so dangerous. I used to have to cross one to get to and from work. I always thought it had arms that would lower. The one time I saw the lights flashing, my brain went "ah, the arms aren't down yet and I'd have to slam on my brakes to stop" so I blew over the crossing. There were no arms at that crossing. The train missed me by seconds. I have never been anywhere near as reckless since. Thank goodness it was only me in the car! And thank goodness I didn't traumatize those poor conductors with my stupid death. (also yay, not dead)
No, they're not dangerous. Everyone else seems to get across these crossings safely. It's people like you, and that bus driver, that makes them dangerous.
@@DounutCereal This was literally the only time I had ever seen the lights going. Every other time I crossed before (or after) there wasn't a train coming
I know here in Minnesota in that all bus drivers have to stop at all crossings (unless they have a special exemption sign posted) to ensure they are clear. It's a shame something like this was not implemented in this case as habitual safety practices may have saved lives in this case.
@@PlainlyDifficult Now can you make a video about the 1963 Chualar bus crash which happened in Southern California 60 years ago today? Which is the deadliest bus crash in us history?
My school bus driver used to pull *onto* the tracks and stop, then open the doors and look both directions, proceeding only after cinfirming there was no train. The problem being that she didn't stop *before* the tracks, she pulled *onto* the tracks. I assume she'd been trained that she was required to stop at every train track and misunderstood the concept.
Sometimes I'm really thankful i don't go on the bus anymore. I used to live in a small town with very dangerous residential roads and let me tell you its terrifying when the bus driver is speeding on a windy bumpy road that drops over 40 ft on the edge, even more terrifying when its raining
My grandparents home was right next to the tracks and my grandmother helped the victims and My father still remembers it happening when he was a small child. I played on those tracks 😢😞❤
I have read about your Grandparents, and the hero your Grandma was that day! I am actually trying to get information together to get more training to drivers regarding RR crossings, focusing on Congers. It's been difficult to find anyone that was actually there that day.
@@heatherbier2367I'll talk to my father, see if he'd be willing to help. Unfortunately my grandma passed almost a year ago exactly but I couldn't call myself a true Fitzgerald if I didn't see what I can do to help!❤️❤️❤️
Back in the 90s to early 00s, I remember seeing tv ads about the dangers of not stopping at Railroad tracks and how you should never try to out run a train when the barriers were down. This video reminded me of those ads.
I wonder if maybe the bus slowed briefly on approach because the driver was looking to the left for the train. If he was driving the route the way he normally did, that's where the train would be. But since he was driving the route in reverse, he habitually looked in the wrong direction.
One day last week we had a train run almost all the way through town right as we're all leaving to do our afternoon routes. The crossing I crossed at has 3 tracks and only enough containment for one bus on either side of the crossing... The bus behind me decided she didnt wanna get stuck there and just mobs past me and across all three tracks without stopping or opening her door. It was a slow train but still...
We recently had an accident in NZ were the bus didn't actually fit between the intersection and the track. And unfortunately the front of the bus was hit by the train. Only the bus driver died in the accident. It was a light controlled intersection, and the lights had started to go as the driver turned into the road.
A school bus driver told back in 1980 that he had to stop at every railroad crossing then open the door and look both ways. This may of been the result of this crash.
I well remember standing in the aisles while riding the bus. I also remember that the one track it crossed, the driver would stop, open the door, and check both ways before proceeding.
Here in Maine, certain classes of vehicle, including school buses and other vehicles hauling hazardous cargo, are required by law to stop at all railroad crossings, regardless of the condition of any warning equipment (lights, gates, etc.) that might be present. This is occasionally deeply annoying where I live, since the main road out of town is crossed by a rail line that hasn't been used in years but has never been officially decommissioned, and it's frustrating to get held up because the bus ahead of you has to stop at an obviously abandoned crossing. That's on whoever owns that line for never bothering to close it properly, though.
I don't know if this was the catalyst, but in the 80s school buses (and any passenger bus I believe) has to stop at all railroad crossings (even with barriers) and open the door. In my town, the land was extremely flat, and no trees or buildings to speak of. You could see a train coming from more than a mile away both directions. They still had to stop and open the door.
He probably never gave it a second thought since he wouldn't even cooperate during the investigation. Oh, that's right, he had a lawyer....justice be damned, right?
Maybe I've just got way too much faith in my bus drivers, but I would expect my busses brakes to go before a driver thought "I'll beat the train, gun that bitch". I mean, I had a nasty mean old man of a bus driver in 2nd grade. We were on the big downhill slope that my school sat at the bottom of, and about half way down I thought "the bus is so fast, this is exciting" and another kid screamed and whined "slow dowwwwnnnnn!!!!" And the guy just said as calm as he could in a old gravely voice that was loud enough for everyone to hear over panicking kids "sit down in your seats, fold your legs up in front of you and push against the seat in front of you. We are going on a rollercoaster ride" we zoomed down the hill. Ran through 2 stop signs, and ended up in a church garden. At first they arrested him, and soon after released him and he became basically a town hero. I think since then there have been 2 more brake failures (this time on busses some church people volunteered to buy that had seat belts and installed them, cause our schools sure as shit didn't care if we lived or died) since then that I've heard about but they were also thankfully on flatter roads and just hopped the curb to kill most the speed and just ended up on the sidewalk We might not have had to walk up hill both ways in school, but school still tries it's hardest to kill the kids in the modern era literally every old person who says "back in my day" 🤬😎
@PlainlyDifficult I have recommended and sent videos to sooo many people trying to get them to become subscribers too. You got support in Maine always :)
I have my CDL A, and one of the first rules is “the most precious cargo is human”, meaning you, your teammate (if you’re driving teams) and those around you. A bus driver should know that they are pulling the absolute most precious cargo. 5 years probation ain’t enough for that.
This really makes me think. I had to cross a crossing around a month ago, and I saw a train in the distance. In my honest defense, it looked like it had stopped. I also didn’t hear any horns and the lights weren’t on. I backed up because I was startled. I sat there for a minute and watched. It didn’t move, so I figured it was stopped or something. Idk, it made sense. I accidentally back up again (thankfully no one was behind me both times lmfao) but then put my car in drive. I start to go across the tracks… AND FINALLY, the lights go off and the barrier starts to lower. I of course panic, and so I step on the gas and *JUST BARELY* get across before the train flies by blaring it’s horn. Like damn, about time you did that!! I mean yeah maybe I should’ve either stopped when I saw it or just continue instead of backing up. But like. There were no signs until it was almost too late that the train WAS coming… This is an actual problem in my town btw so I’m not the only one LOL (I don’t think anyone’s died tho, and I don’t intend on being the first)
We had a substitute bus driver once in high school that was scary. There was this steep hill with a sharp turn at the bottom, brutal in the winter. He had the bus flying down the hill and one of the upper years yelled “hold on” and we all got really quiet because we thought he was gonna roll the bus. He somehow didn’t but that was the last time he ever drove our bus. Not sure if he drove a school bus after that.
I remember this like it was yesterday. The dope driving the bus was a nyc fireman who was late for the job in nyc & tried to save time by beating the train to the crossing. His stupidity & arrogance took 5 lives.
seems like he got off pretty lightly considering the tragedy and carnage he caused! awesome video as always John! whenever i see your notification pop up i instantly drop what im doing and get comfy for some well documented and fascinating viewing and then watch several more Plainly Difficult to slake my disaster thirst lol cheers mate! Kia Ora from Northland NZ!!:)
once saw a train moving at walking speed, so i thought i'd jump up on it and ride it to school. when i got up next to it it was moving at about 20mph not the 5 it appeared at distance. never try to beat a train, the train is traveling faster than it looks
Risky driving is one reason. But it's definitely to ask, where drivers are set into time frames, regularly only to be kept by such actions, and penalties for being late, force them to do so. Here in this case to conflict day time job / additional job should have been a no go for the company... But even worse, as said above, such stress is done be companies themselves. And this causes bad driving, bad habits slowly seeking in...
It's funny that the MBTA bus stuck out like a sore thumb in the drone footage. It wasn't until the third rewind that I saw Allston was on screen at the same time, before the gas station, confirming that it was definitely a Boston suburb shot!
(Cough) it’s Rockland County (cough). I’m fairly sure this accident is what spurred modern regulations that require not only school buses but many other types of heavy vehicles to stop before any rail crossing even if it appears to be clear. And yes, it’s pretty sickening that the only penalty for causing an incident like this is “don’t do it again for at least five years or you’ll be sorry!” If you think our addiction to cars in the US makes us culturally indifferent to road safety now, the state of play 50 years ago was definitely even worse.
As with with airplane crashes, sadly regulations are Written in Blood. While the crossing should have had Gates. Trying to beat a train is an absolute No-No....
Five kids died and he got 5 years probation? Even though it was clearly his fault, there were complaints made about how he drove in general and, although he never intended any harm, he deliberately put all of them in harm’s way. I’d say he was lucky there weren’t more deaths
It's a shame he wasn't one of those killed in the collision! People that should have been monitoring him KNEW he had bad driving habits but chose to look the other way so they are just as guilty as he was!
@@richardcline1337Why should he have died? That's not a good *Punishment,* it's just *YOUR* way of wanting some *Revenge* for the deaths of those 5 kids!!! ~ JonseyG 👲
Ahhh, finally happy to have clarification as to why school busses are supposed to stop prior to rail road crossings. There are many close to where I live in southeastern United States, and I often get stuck behind them and have always wondered why the stop, it’s like reading the tag on a hair dryer and wondering why they tell you not to use it in the shower. Thank you for making my favorite, couch locked, stoned and wanting to know everything kind of content. I love everything you put out from radiological incidents to domestic incidents: Phenomenal narrative, and the visuals always help to make the stories easier to imagine. Good work, genuinely. Even if you never see this, keep it up! Love it ❤️🔥
That's crazy. Five kids dead because he's late for work, and the guy gets _probation?_ Not to mention the dozens of injuries, including amputation. Not justice at all.
my dad told me how long it took a train to come to full stop, which is a full minute, as he used to occasionally go to a plant which trains would stop at to give materials, don't remember what type of plant it was.
Did he tell you how much distance a loaded bus (which has 48 kids which somehow couldn't fit into 66 seats) covers before it stops? The narrator doesn't seem to know and didn't bother to check.
The fact the kids were yelling about there being a train and the driver continuing makes me extra livid. I remember knowing the dangers of trains even as a kid.
Been enough train collisions locally over the last 5-10 years that I can confidently say that even physical barriers won't prevent stupid people from trying to beat a train through a crossing if there's any potential way for the barrier to be driven around.
I'm assuming this is based on your through investigation comparing crossings before and after physical gate blockers are installed? The NTSB would disagree with you (as would anyone with common sense). But hey, I'm sure you've seen a couple of collisions (that *definitely* wouldn't have happened sans-gates, right?) and clearly all of the studies showing massive drops in incidents are wrong. Damn that confirmation bias gets people every time, I swear.
No its from repeatedly seeing accidents at the same handful of crossings where stupid people try to race around the lowered arms to beat the train because they don't want to wait. I'm not saying physical barriers at crossings are bad; I'm just saying society has a way of making better idiots that will ignore them.
Human factors cause so many more accidents but they are ofter overlooked. The airline industry excells at finding out the real root cause of accidents. If the bus driver usually sped because he had to be at another job why? Why does a firefighter have to work 2 jobs? Now I know its US and you don't get holidays and you have to get 2-3 jobs to survive but why?
Once again you are in my area! I never heard of this incident but I just looked it up to learn more about it. My heart goes out to all involved and still traumatized (including those on the train)
There was a great movie on TV about this when I was a kid in the ‘70s. I never forget that scene with the kids shouting at the bus driver, and then the crash. It was pretty graphic for that time. It made me very aware of train crossings!
I remember when my mom ran a business from our house. We had hedges surrounding our house, waist-height as people would actually walk up to our windows and peer inside without them. We also were on a corner, a blind one which the town refused to put up a sign warning drivers that the driveway to my mom's business was blind. One afternoon a customer got her pants hemmed and I came down at the last minute to help with something (can't remember), but I got to see a near-fatal accident. A bus driver going about 45-50 miles per hour (there are two signs on the street specifically saying that the limit is 25), around the corner as she's backing out. The driver slams so hard on the brakes I can see the children from where I was standing being thrown forward and leans hard on the horn. Thank God there wasn't a collision, and we called the bus company and told them what happened, but it was close and shows how easily something can happen.
I think they are much safer now probably because they electronically monitor the busses but back in the 80s we had some wild bus drivers. We even had drivers that would modify the busses. Everything from disconnecting governors to installing massive sound systems we had one bus driver that had literally installed massive home stereo speakers (those old cabinet speakers) under the seats of his bus.
1:44 - 1:45 Something about seeing you actually put up the Penn Central mating worm logo - not just mentioning that Penn Central operated it - that makes my rail buff side happy. (Even if it is an ugly-as-hell logo IMO)
This really shows that some people are unable to operate safely and normally when outside of normal parameters. I mean, being a driver sounds like such a simple job but frankly it requires a certain character. Especially for a school bus driver.
we always got silent at those railroad crossings, the bus driver wouldn’t drive if you didn’t stop talking and you better or guess who’s banned from the bus now. I’m so lucky I made it out of childhood alive
Thanks for watching, check out me other bits!
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Consider the Yuba City School Bus crash, Martinez CA 1976 The worst one in US history.
were any of the recommended changes suggested by the NTSB actually implemented? The NTSB can only make recommendation and cannot actually enforce changes being made, so it's never clear if they are ever actually made
- - Oh @ 2:44 you show that gates have been installed, but I guess there's no way of knowing WHEN they were put there... with ALL THE REGULATION in the states there is a HUGE LACK of inter-department communication... it's like it has been PURPOSELY made to be as complex and useless as possible... and NO ONE knows when something is a LAW or a SUGGESTION.... OR where to find this out... BUT if you do 'break' a suggestion, you will STILL BE CHARGED AND FINED because EVEN THE COURTS don't know if it is a REAL LAW or if they are even allowed to fine you... so they just set the fine anyway, and the vast, VAST, VAST MAJORITY of people just PAY THE FINE because it would cost WAY MORE to get a lawyer and a lot of effort to fight the fine, (and takes up a bunch of time) so people just pay the fines and get on with their life... and I believe THIS IS THE GOVERNMENTS PLAN ALL ALONG!! lol ... wait... what were we talking about???? .... ohh yea...
R.I.P. Children 😢
Another suggestion... OC Transpo/Via Rail crash, September 18, 2013
FYI, in American English, we do not say "New York State." We might say "The state of New York" but more commonly we simply say "New York."
You should do a ”the dark side of science” video about the swedish tooth decay experiment (the Vipeholm experiments)
I remember as a kid the bus would always stop before a railroad crossing, open the door so they could listen for the train horns, and tell us all to be quiet before eventually driving across when they deemed it safe. I remember even being impressed that such young kids actually did shut up during crossings. I guess we understood how dangerous it could be if the driver couldn't hear.
Same. It always makes these kinds of accidents seem even crazier to me. But maybe part of that is the difference between going to school in the late 90s versus the early 70s.
Think this might be the reason why they started doing that.
I remember this too. I started wondering if trains were invisible cuz how could you miss seeing one? Then i realized it could be foggy. We always stayed at the stop until everyone was quiet for 15 seconds.
I'm sure before crashes such as this the prevailing attitude of administrators and regulators was "Surely nobody would be dumb enough to try and outrun a train with a school bus loaded with children."
They still do it, I was stuck behind a bus at a railroad crossing the other day.
“He was charged with negligent homicide” *smiles* “and was sentenced to 5 yrs probation” *jaw drops*
This was in 1972, things were different then. Laws have been written and past since that time.
These days I'm sure he would have served time.
I genuinely screamed at that part
@@yami1389 same. what the actual shit; I thought he'd get at least a life sentence, especially based on his driving history
This is the most enraging punch line of all of John's videos ever.
@@bsoz9759yeah, things were different. You can tell the driver was white.
Running late didn't cost the lives of 5 children. The utter negligence of the bus driver did!
Rather 10 minutes late than 50 years too early.
Not defending his negligence at all but sounds like the guy needed two jobs in order to survive and I'm sure his boss didn't give a hoot WHY he was gonna be late. Not defending him for a second but people not having adequate time to fo their jobs in industry has cost way more lives than this before. We don't only need to vet people in responsible positions more (but that would be a communist regulation big government nono in the USA) and also pay people adequately for a job so they don't need to rush (which would make billionnaires sad and therefore is also a nono)
Wrong. The vad design is the route cause. Operator error will always occur. Also What about a deaf driver? Or a sudden heart attack?
No. Ah just blame the driver instead if putting in good designs to keep our children safe. Safety isn't your priority. Cheers.
Ya annnnee you're right. Cant have any of that communist crap around thdse parts right? Jobs that give workers thoughtful hours and enough pay are too.socialistic and will.cut.into the profits of the billionaires so ... A lot of times I just hate America.
10 4
As a bus driver you have childrens lives in your charge. You NEVER take unnecessary risks that may endanger the lives of the children.
Thank you!
Decent people certainly don’t anyway.
Most don't unless they've been pressured by management to not be slow
@@BromellFilmCorpI normally agree with that sort of idea and it is absolutely its own separate issue, but that's just the thing, that isn't at all what happened. Just someone choosing to risk a packed schoolbus of children to try and fix a mistake they already made
@@ShuMitsui I don't have kids yet
I think this was a common problem in the US in the 60s and 70s. In 1968, I was 10, and my bus driver played "Beat the Train." We were all screaming, but we all survived. Tiny was fired that evening. (Yes, that was his name, and he was a monster before he attempted to kill us.)
Oh My God, Tiny Was Bonkers
Ha Ha Ha Beat The Train Unfortunately This Time The Train Beat The Bus
"It is unclear what role Tiny might play in the Great Society" Hunter S. Thompson
I feel as if you have a plainly difficult story to tell us about this Tiny character. Fascinating stuff, humans. 😅
The train beats the bus
5 years probation for clearly disobeying traffic laws is ridiculous. This may have been before school buses had to stop at all railroad crossings, but thank God they have that rule now.
What? They didnt have such law before?! i mean... they didn't have such law for every type vehicle before? And what's now? They implemented this but only for school buses?
America is so medieval and f****d up tbh...
IIRC, this wreck was why that rule was made. I rode school buses in the 1970's and somewhere in the mid-70's, school buses started doing that. They had to stop and open the door at all RR crossings.
The must stop at all rail crossings law was the cheap “solution” that did not address other risky driver behavior. Even today bus drivers do not get enough supervision and support to reduce driver stress and limit poor driving.
I wish the rule went that there were working crossing guards at every railroad/vehicle crossing
@@gerardwall5847 One thing at a time. Even private, truck companies require stopping at all railroad crossings; although, that's more of a pragmatic thing to avoid damage or harm to the truck, driver, or contents from driving fast over tracks that stick out too much.
Man, five dead children and dozens more permanently injured, with the driver getting probation. I can't imagine how I would feel if the man responsible for my son's death got off so lightly.
Well, did he ever do anything like that again? If not the punishment would seem to have been sufficient. After all it's not the purpose of the legal system to inflict pain on wrongdoers so that everyone else can feel better.
@@TillyOrifice if that were true, most murderers would never see the inside of a cell.
@@TillyOrifice What kind of L-take is that? I won't even write "lol" because what you wrote is just painful to read 😧 Jesus, some ppl are truly something else.
As a father myself, I would say that I'd feel pretty bad. Positively rotten!
@@TillyOrificeI’m sorry your brother is incarcerated. I hope his stay is completely uneventful and that after this he has a good life.
As a school bus driver, THIS is why our motto is "Safety over Schedule". Nothing is more important than those kids' lives. Even if it means you're late to your second job (which you shouldn't even need because being a bus driver should pay the bills but i digress). This tragedy was avoidable and that bus driver had to live with that decision for the rest of his life.
School bus drivers in NY are paid well over minimum wage. Not as much as bankers and it is part time but it pays well.
My aunt drove for 8 years and quit due to the politics of it. She said the job itself (driving, the kids, being out and about) was great, but the school district, administration, and clique mentality was horrific. That and the lack of benefits.
It seems like in every school kid's career there was always a story of that one bus driver that was reckless. I remember one driver that would fly over speed bumps to see how high he could get the kids in the back to fly. Crazy.
Yup. My 6th grade bus driver used to do this at the same speed bump every day. Some kids thought it was hilarious, I remember flying in the air and watching kids hit the ceiling, sounding like loud bang snaps. I hated it, it was uncomfortable and painful. Seatbelts just made it hurt worse. One day while I got off at my stop I asked him "why do you have to drive over that speedbump like that everyday?" And he said "Because it's fun?" Left me speechless.
My 7th grade bus driver, Mel. He was one of the biggest assholes you could ever meet. I don’t say that out of spite. I say that because of the things he did. It wasn’t so much risks that he took while driving because he really didn’t do that. It was more how he treated the kids on his bus. Especially the special needs kids. We had one girl that had cochlear implants with very visible external devices. He refused to listen when her parents told him what they were. He thought they were really meant for listening to music when she shouldn’t be. After about a week he started telling her that she needed to take them off so she could listen to his instructions. Us kids told him that if she took them off then she wouldn’t be able to hear him. He wrote like 7 of us up, myself included, for insubordination and distracting the driver. All because we defended her. After that he yanked the devices off of her head and snapped them in half. The yanking part hurt because she had just had them implanted only a couple of months prior. So she hadn’t fully healed from the surgery yet. As soon as we got to school we told the principal exactly what we witnessed. He got suspended. That was it. He cost her family thousands of dollars to get new devices and another surgery since back then you couldn’t just get new external pieces. They had to be manually paired with the implants.
@@mcrchickenluvr - wow, that's so awful! That poor girl! Thank goodness you and your fellow classmates reported him. Still, his punishment didn't fit the crime either. Unreal!
@@yepitsme3336 no it really didn’t. He was suspended for I think 2 weeks. And he got paid. What did he do with that time instead of growing a pair of cherries? He took his wife on a vacation. He came back to work with a nice tan while my friend came back to school with new surgery scars. She did get some level of justice though. CPS actually did their jobs and investigated him and his wife. As far I know he’s still behind bars for taping his daughter.
@@mcrchickenluvr - oh gosh! Thank you for the update. What an aberrant man. I'm so glad he got investigated and is hopefully still in jail.
Considering the type of accident and were it got hit, its kind of a miracle in some ways that 5 kids died. If you look at the wreck and got told to guess how many, just my guess would be much higher.
Yeah. When I saw the thumbnail, the image registered before the text. Train vs _anything_ typically doesn't bode well for the _anything_ involved.
It’s due to how school buses are engineered in the US. They are engineered to such a rigorous safety standard that a train can hit a bus and most of the kids still survive.
The black lines also tell fire departments where they can cut to extract the kids from the bus.
@@LeadTrumpet1never knew that about the lines. The more you know.
@@LeadTrumpet1 That's actually only true since the 50's I believe. There was a pretty infamous bus-fire, as a result of an accident that shouldn't have been so bad... EXCEPT the NTSB (or it's earliest roots) found that school buses were engineered like "giant sheetmetal tissue boxes on wheels" and not the pig-iron behemoths we find so familiar today. ;o)
@@LeadTrumpet1 aint no way the string they call a seat belt, that never works anyway, is gonna save me from getting splattered by a train 😅
This is the first time, that I recall, hearing about the driver having a second job and perhaps being in a rush to get to it. Thanks for that extra bit of information.
Yea in the south especially most school bus drivers are women with like 2 or 3 jobs
Not unusual. I’ve heard of other bad school bus accidents in which the driver had a second job.
the bus drivers i did talk to when in school, they all had at least 2 jobs, sounds like being a school bus driver does not keep food on the table
@@thaddeus5944 I think alot has to do with savings & budget They're off for the summer & most folks cant go that long without spending all their money!
While it absolutely does not excuse or justify his actions, it's an important context, and likewise it's the first time I've heard it in respect of this crash.
This overloading doesn't happen today. I drive in Canada and there is a seating limit. You cannot pack a bus like that with kids standing up. The rule is this : If you're late, stay late. Do not rush, do not take shortcuts. Just do your run in order and get the kids to school safely. Not saying there are no accidents, but this company didn't have limits on the amount of students in a 72 passenger bus. We never run at 72 passengers. That is too many. I have had as many as 62.
Well considering Canada has a racist for a king
I drove for my county, having children standing up is common as we don't have enough busses and drivers. I complained every time they made me do this, because I didn't want to be on the hook for any injuries.
@@suzyrottencrotch5132Relevance?
@@suzyrottencrotch5132 Please consult doctors and clergy ASAP
I drive over here in the UK and overloading isn't nessiserrly a thing but there are still limits in place that drivers will go up to. I have had 70+ on in the past. I think the big factor that played into this one was time pressure
"Or in technical terms, go smashey smash", the scenario isnt funny but that line is
Indeed!
Not sure on firemen, but most EMTs I know get in the habit of or enjoy driving recklessly because they're used to having the justification to do that in ambulances and other emergency vehicles. I could see that this bus driver/fireman may have had the same mindset with his driving.
You can rest assured that this paramedic don’t drive ambulance style in her personal car.
Lol EMS drive safer in an ambulance, if you have to run lights then you have a patient in the back you really don’t want bouncing around
You're not sure on emts, either. I was career fire/ems and I wasn't in the habit of, nor did I enjoy driving recklessly. I'm not in the habit of, nor do I enjoy driving recklessly now. To correct your misconception, we are also not justified in the reckless operation of emergency vehicles. Going through red lights or overtaking oncoming traffic while running lights and sirens, for example, is not driving recklessly.
One of the EMTs in my area recently hit a child and I've heard the others discussing this like the kid shouldn't have crossed the street. I've nearly been hit by them myself and they hop curbs and other things. The local EMTs are reckless, so I wasn't sure if the bus driver may have been the type of person who took the job as an excuse to drive recklessly. I know there are safe drivers among EMTs and the work they do is usually wonderful, but I also know the local ones at least have several people who just see it as a free pass to drive recklessly.@@elizabetholiviaclark
I've heard of this incident before and wondered if the driver's judgement was impaired due to sleep deprivation, but I hadn't realised he was behind schedule and would therefore be late for his other job. I do find it strange that people with such important and potentially hazardous jobs, such as emergency responders, are paid so poorly that they require a second job.
The crossing was also lined by trees which combined with the Brunswick green paint of the penn central locomotives basically made them almost invisible.
That's a sad one. I hope the survivors are doing better and I hope the families of the dead are doing better too. Couldn't have been easy for anyone.
Me too considering how long ago it was
I also hope that bus driver has made peace with the decision, and has forgiven himself.
Wow, I doubt 5y probation would fly these days.
Also, I love it when you cover a disaster story that includes the NTSB as working there is my dream job!
I guarantee you he got drug from his house and beaten in the streets for what he did considering the time and location.
@chrisofthehoovers4055 not enough.
In a blue state, sure it would. America overincarcerates, remember?
Unfortunately if you think about how light child ab**ers get treated, it’s not hard to imagine it wouldn’t be that much worse for a bus driver. We just have new rules in place that should prevent it. 🤷♀️
@@shane99caLOL! Never miss an opportunity for an irrelevant troll shitpost, eh?
This is a sad one. I want to feel bad for the bus driver because he was a firefighter and a bus driver. Sounds like a good person in general, but if being a bus driver means you have to rush to your firefighting job and putting children's lives in danger, I find it hard to feel sorry for him. I do however, feel sorry for all those kids who had no choice but to ride a bus to school driven by this guy. I think the most sad part about it, is this could be any bus driver. I'm sure they don't get paid very well so need a second job. Just seems like a problem with the industry as a whole.
Quite a few bus drivers that are full time are able to live on just that. Just depends on the area I suppose. Id sure hope they get paid decently. Had a teacher that was on his 17th year? He just slept, made 200,000 with 100,000 being a bonus
@@Steve.._. My father was a school bus driver for 25 years (and a damn good one) and he at least was not paid incredibly well. He did have a second (self-employed) job to help support the family but thankfully never rushed because he made his own hours. Actually there were times the school board forced them to drive on icy roads and he and other drivers would say no. The school board were the bad guys in his case quite often.
This story actually reminds me of a girl that was killed locally when they forced the school buses out in a blizzard and poor visibility caused her to get struck by a car. And then the students and staff (including my dad) all got stranded at the school and had to stay overnight. Real geniuses the school board were.
@@Zhurialol
It is a crying shame that a firefighter (and emergency workers in general) of all things needs a second job to get around!
But it ofcdoesn't excuse risking children's life!
@@Zhuria When I was a young child, there was a bus driver for the county who lived up in the mountains, far enough that they even allowed him to keep the bus he drove at his house... One winter he and his bus (which were unusually reliable) didn't show for work, and the phone lines were down... Everyone knew the county (outside of the proper city) had taken the recent wintry mixes and storm hard over a weekend... BUT the school board had an emergency meeting after the 3rd day of no-show and no communication anyway... When their delegation of 5 showed up, apparently, there were some confrontational words exchanged before the driver (a near legend around here) threw the keys for the bus out the window at them, and told them that they had 3 days (something of a State Law minimum) to get that bus off his property before he contacted a lawyer and took them to court for as far as he could push it...
Well... when they got to the bus (in spite of finding his house nearly buried in snow)... They found that the machine was so hopelessly frozen down to the ground they couldn't even get through the ice to open ANY of the doors, not emergency exits in the rear or on top... nothing. SO it would take a further 6 weeks before legal procedure could even be started (a LOT of traffic accidents, issues, and mostly a colossal governmental clusterf*** for the stormy winter)... BUT the old man REFUSED to settle, and the courts weren't so sympathetic to the school board (almost all of whom had residence IN the city "proper"). He got his job back, a BIG bonus for eliminating countless suffering, and practically a guarantee of employment for life. It was a humiliating (if only locally so) defeat... and the school board "restructured"... I remember it because it was one of the stories often repeated when we "city school kids" would ask why the County Schools had such a different schedule to ours... or why we "county kids" had such high tuitions to go to the city schools, regardless of whether you were a mile out of town or 20 miles... or even in the next county over...
Yeah, councils and boards of "elected officials" have a great capacity to screw up... AND when the STATE government tells you to "shut up and pay the man his due"... it's pretty obviously "code" for "You f***ed up royal, so apologize and hope you can even seek your job in a year." It's still "touchy" to bring up city people doing anything "leadership" to help county people in this area... {and by "touchy" I mean, you CAN get shot for suggesting it in certain circles} haha... ;o)
speaking of bus disasters, look into the yuba city bus disaster that happened a few years later in california. per the wiki, its the deadliest highway disaster ever investigated by the ntsb. would be an interesting one to cover. great vid as always
Thank you for the suggestion
Also, the Brynderwyn Hill bus crash, which happened in 1963. One of New Zealand's deadliest road accidents.
@@PlainlyDifficult Now can you make a video about the 1963 Chualar bus crash which happened in Southern California 60 years ago today? Which is the deadliest bus crash in us history?
Have you done a video on the 1976 Yuba City, California school bus accident - known as the Martinez crash in Ca. school bus industry. It caused changes in school bus design, driver training, and a redesigned exit ramp from the highway. It might be interesting research 🙂 I am a former school bus driver trainer and have heard some of the details.
This is also how my cousin died and caused the death of 2 others in his car. He thought to outrun the train at an unguarded train crossing too, and lost. This type of crossing only had those blinking lights when a train is coming but no beams. In the rural area they lived it was a known «game» to speed up the car and cross the unguarded crossing just as a train was coming too. The goal was to cross just before the train reached the crossing. Stupid juvenile adrenaline game obviously. You will always loose a game like that with a train. In my cousins case the train hit the back of his car and the car was then catapulted into a tree. All in the car died. Only in their early 20’s and late teens. I loved my cousin but will always be angry at him for causing so much grief 😔 They were dumb cocky kids, the busdriver in this story was an adult and should be over such risk taking behaviour! Truly a disgusting tale. I feel so sorry for those kids and their families.
Getting CATAPULTED into a tree is crazyy
Pretty sure your cousin didn't want to die that day. heres to their memory🍻
*lose* not loose
In my school district in central NJ, one snowy morning my sister's bus got stuck in the snow. The driver couldn't get it out, so she had the kids, a mixture of elementary and middle school students, get out and push. When a replacement bus arrived, she was fired on the spot!
Oh hey neat, I wrote the script on this topic for Fascinating Horror. Glad to see other people covering it.
A point of correction: PC Train WV-1 was lead by 2 *U25B* (U-25-B) and one *U33B* (U-33-B) locomotives.
Led* 😏 sorry couldn't resist. I love FH and I appreciate your work there!
Looking at the photos I would have guessed there would be more than 5 fatalities.
Reminds me of the school bus/ train crash that happened when i was in high school so somewhere between 1989-91, a bus driver had a medical emergency ( i think it was a heart attack but my memory is a little hazy on the tragedy) and the bus came to a halt at the rail crossing and got hit by a train , there were 2 fatalities ( the driver who may have already been dead when they train hit and one student who was sitting immediately behind the driver and was instant killed at the impact.) and numerous injuries ranging from minor to serious. Also 5 years of probation is ridiculous punishment for what happened. I hope he was also barred from operating a bus ever again.
Barred or not I can guarantee no company no matter how low would hire someone who caused the death of five children.
@@mxdangeryou have too much faith in companies!
@@mxdanger, the company probably never gave the incident a second thought and many don't even care enough to check.
There was a video about the mental impact these have on the train operator. That moment he hit they hit the breaks knowing it will only soften the blow, is haunting.
I was born that year, riding school buses just 5 years later. The school bus stopped at all railroad crossings, opened the door before continuing on. I'm assuming this rule was put in place from this incident?
I was about to comment saying the same thing. I always thought it was a bit odd as an elementary school student, but now that I know about these incidents I'm glad they made all the bus drivers do this.
I remember when this happened. I lived near Clarks Town on the New Jersey side. It was in the news for days. Very shocking. Your facts are spot on.
My dad lived right up the street when he was a child. When i was little, he told me how he ran down the street to see the accident. There were bloody handprints from the children on the windows. It traumatized me then
I dated a retired train engineer/conductor. His father was a career engineer but my friend preferred the conductor role as he hated the level crossings like thesewhile operating a mile long freight train. His Dad had 3 or 4 car train hits in his career, and was able to deal with them appropriately. Being in northern Canada our trains back then had tne pointy scoop on the front to deflect charging Moose and other large game.
I don't blame him. I used to ride commuter rail a lot and saw people effectively play "chicken" with a train going up to 79 MPH. It's scary since you know even if you hit the brakes, you would stop WELL beyond them!
"pointy scoop" as in "cow catcher"?
For those of you Of a Certain Age, you may remember Schoolhouse Rock and "I'm Just a Bill." (first aired September 18, 1975)
czcams.com/video/OgVKvqTItto/video.html
"Bill" was the proposed law that all school buses must stop at all RR crossings, which was the law passed in the aftermath of this incident.
Oh yeah! Thanks for the reminder.
I have the whole set on video, actually. But thank you for that tie-in!
P.S. Look carefully at the American map composed of people at the end of _The Shot Heard Around the World,_ and you'll see that the woman who represents the state of California is nude.
Wasn't the train on its way to Conjunction Junction?
_"Conjunction Junction, what's your function?"_
Many teachers today show schoolhouse rock since the resources to adequately teach critical thinking skills are not adequate it is not the most ideal situation except many Gen Z here remember these videos
What a tragedy that was back then. God bless the ones lost.
Well into the 1990s, Nyack High School held an annual Festival Day to celebrate the young lives lost that day. When people say that "laws are written in blood," that was certainly the case here and many new rules governing school bus construction, safety, and operation, railroad level crossing protection, and driver training and certification came into effect as a result.
And yes, Rockland County is a nice place to live. It was basically just farmland until the 1950s and the opening of the Tappan Zee Bridge and the New York State Thruway spurred rapid population growth, so fixing an "unprotected" crossing on a lesser-used road wasn't quite a priority. The West Shore (train) Line ended passenger service in 1959, leaving only freight service since then.
I grew up in NJ right over the NY/NJ border and remember this story. Years later, I made friends who lived just around the corner from the spot. My friend's father drove a school bus in NYC. It was believed that the driver was railroaded into taking the blame. According to him, the many factors that were hidden. One was the breaks were in poor condition, the rail crossing signs were poorly located and marked, and a few other factors I can't remember. It was a sad situation all the way around. Shortly after this gates were installed at the crossing.
I've always wondered how many Train vs School bus accidents have been prevented solely by the act of opening the door. Like the crossing lights/bars (if present) were not working, the driver was unable to see the train approaching when stopped, and the only reason the driver became aware of the trains presence was opening the door.
What a horrible tragedy.
I was 5yo in USA at the time and walked to school by myself on sidewalks.
These boys were high school aged. So much potential to succeed in life.
Such a horrible, horrible tragedy.
As a parent of 2 boys, I can't imagine the deep sense of loss. My sons mean EVERYTHING to me. They define my life because everything I do is for them now and in the future.
My life's work is so that they can succeed in the future.
These sorts of crossings are so dangerous. I used to have to cross one to get to and from work. I always thought it had arms that would lower. The one time I saw the lights flashing, my brain went "ah, the arms aren't down yet and I'd have to slam on my brakes to stop" so I blew over the crossing.
There were no arms at that crossing. The train missed me by seconds. I have never been anywhere near as reckless since. Thank goodness it was only me in the car! And thank goodness I didn't traumatize those poor conductors with my stupid death. (also yay, not dead)
Why the fuck were you in the habit of going through the crossing when the lights are going but the arms haven't moved yet in the first place though?
No, they're not dangerous. Everyone else seems to get across these crossings safely. It's people like you, and that bus driver, that makes them dangerous.
@@DounutCereal This was literally the only time I had ever seen the lights going. Every other time I crossed before (or after) there wasn't a train coming
FIVE YEARS PROBATION FOR KILLING FIVE KIDS?!?!?! That is unreal. I wonder, what bridge did they find that judge and jury under. Incredible.
@@mobilemarshallhe killed 5 kids
@@mobilemarshall he drove irresponsibly, killing 5 kids
@@mobilemarshalland the context is the dude killed 5 children. Shoulda put him in the chair and let him fry
@@ianitorSo just the number of killed decides how much driving irresponsibly is worth?
You seem fun.@@dukes7855
I know here in Minnesota in that all bus drivers have to stop at all crossings (unless they have a special exemption sign posted) to ensure they are clear. It's a shame something like this was not implemented in this case as habitual safety practices may have saved lives in this case.
It’s not a bad idea
That's a Federal regulation. Trucks carrying hazardous materials also have to do that.
@@PlainlyDifficult Now can you make a video about the 1963 Chualar bus crash which happened in Southern California 60 years ago today? Which is the deadliest bus crash in us history?
My school bus driver used to pull *onto* the tracks and stop, then open the doors and look both directions, proceeding only after cinfirming there was no train. The problem being that she didn't stop *before* the tracks, she pulled *onto* the tracks. I assume she'd been trained that she was required to stop at every train track and misunderstood the concept.
Or she was effing stupid. You don't stop on the tracks, ever.
Sometimes I'm really thankful i don't go on the bus anymore. I used to live in a small town with very dangerous residential roads and let me tell you its terrifying when the bus driver is speeding on a windy bumpy road that drops over 40 ft on the edge, even more terrifying when its raining
My grandparents home was right next to the tracks and my grandmother helped the victims and My father still remembers it happening when he was a small child. I played on those tracks 😢😞❤
I have read about your Grandparents, and the hero your Grandma was that day! I am actually trying to get information together to get more training to drivers regarding RR crossings, focusing on Congers. It's been difficult to find anyone that was actually there that day.
@@heatherbier2367I'll talk to my father, see if he'd be willing to help. Unfortunately my grandma passed almost a year ago exactly but I couldn't call myself a true Fitzgerald if I didn't see what I can do to help!❤️❤️❤️
Only 5 years probation?! That’s nuts
Extremely horrific! I see they have crossing gates now!
Back in the 90s to early 00s, I remember seeing tv ads about the dangers of not stopping at Railroad tracks and how you should never try to out run a train when the barriers were down.
This video reminded me of those ads.
I wonder if maybe the bus slowed briefly on approach because the driver was looking to the left for the train. If he was driving the route the way he normally did, that's where the train would be. But since he was driving the route in reverse, he habitually looked in the wrong direction.
One day last week we had a train run almost all the way through town right as we're all leaving to do our afternoon routes. The crossing I crossed at has 3 tracks and only enough containment for one bus on either side of the crossing... The bus behind me decided she didnt wanna get stuck there and just mobs past me and across all three tracks without stopping or opening her door. It was a slow train but still...
We recently had an accident in NZ were the bus didn't actually fit between the intersection and the track. And unfortunately the front of the bus was hit by the train. Only the bus driver died in the accident. It was a light controlled intersection, and the lights had started to go as the driver turned into the road.
A school bus driver told back in 1980 that he had to stop at every railroad crossing then open the door and look both ways. This may of been the result of this crash.
I well remember standing in the aisles while riding the bus. I also remember that the one track it crossed, the driver would stop, open the door, and check both ways before proceeding.
Here in Maine, certain classes of vehicle, including school buses and other vehicles hauling hazardous cargo, are required by law to stop at all railroad crossings, regardless of the condition of any warning equipment (lights, gates, etc.) that might be present. This is occasionally deeply annoying where I live, since the main road out of town is crossed by a rail line that hasn't been used in years but has never been officially decommissioned, and it's frustrating to get held up because the bus ahead of you has to stop at an obviously abandoned crossing. That's on whoever owns that line for never bothering to close it properly, though.
I don't know if this was the catalyst, but in the 80s school buses (and any passenger bus I believe) has to stop at all railroad crossings (even with barriers) and open the door.
In my town, the land was extremely flat, and no trees or buildings to speak of. You could see a train coming from more than a mile away both directions. They still had to stop and open the door.
It's sad that children have a better grasp of the danger trains pose than adults...
I'm really glad the driver survived. I hope he lives with that guilt for many many years.
He probably never gave it a second thought since he wouldn't even cooperate during the investigation. Oh, that's right, he had a lawyer....justice be damned, right?
Maybe I've just got way too much faith in my bus drivers, but I would expect my busses brakes to go before a driver thought "I'll beat the train, gun that bitch". I mean, I had a nasty mean old man of a bus driver in 2nd grade. We were on the big downhill slope that my school sat at the bottom of, and about half way down I thought "the bus is so fast, this is exciting" and another kid screamed and whined "slow dowwwwnnnnn!!!!" And the guy just said as calm as he could in a old gravely voice that was loud enough for everyone to hear over panicking kids "sit down in your seats, fold your legs up in front of you and push against the seat in front of you. We are going on a rollercoaster ride" we zoomed down the hill. Ran through 2 stop signs, and ended up in a church garden. At first they arrested him, and soon after released him and he became basically a town hero. I think since then there have been 2 more brake failures (this time on busses some church people volunteered to buy that had seat belts and installed them, cause our schools sure as shit didn't care if we lived or died) since then that I've heard about but they were also thankfully on flatter roads and just hopped the curb to kill most the speed and just ended up on the sidewalk
We might not have had to walk up hill both ways in school, but school still tries it's hardest to kill the kids in the modern era literally every old person who says "back in my day" 🤬😎
Almost 1 million subscribers PD! You deserve it!!!
Thank you so much! I appreciate the support :)
@PlainlyDifficult I have recommended and sent videos to sooo many people trying to get them to become subscribers too. You got support in Maine always :)
Great channel👍❤️
I have my CDL A, and one of the first rules is “the most precious cargo is human”, meaning you, your teammate (if you’re driving teams) and those around you. A bus driver should know that they are pulling the absolute most precious cargo. 5 years probation ain’t enough for that.
God, the Penn Central was as much of a dumpster fire of a railroad that it almost deserves it's own video about it's failure!
Nice video!
You're right!
I second the suggestion. The Penn Central bankruptcy was the largest in history at the time. The service issues alone would make a video.
They are far worse than a dumpster fire
This kind of thing is exactly why we have the stop and listen rule now for school buses
The driver destroyed the luves of many with his careless actions. I am one who does hope his life was irreversibly changed by this incident.
This really makes me think. I had to cross a crossing around a month ago, and I saw a train in the distance. In my honest defense, it looked like it had stopped. I also didn’t hear any horns and the lights weren’t on.
I backed up because I was startled. I sat there for a minute and watched. It didn’t move, so I figured it was stopped or something. Idk, it made sense. I accidentally back up again (thankfully no one was behind me both times lmfao) but then put my car in drive. I start to go across the tracks…
AND FINALLY, the lights go off and the barrier starts to lower. I of course panic, and so I step on the gas and *JUST BARELY* get across before the train flies by blaring it’s horn. Like damn, about time you did that!!
I mean yeah maybe I should’ve either stopped when I saw it or just continue instead of backing up. But like. There were no signs until it was almost too late that the train WAS coming…
This is an actual problem in my town btw so I’m not the only one LOL (I don’t think anyone’s died tho, and I don’t intend on being the first)
We had a substitute bus driver once in high school that was scary. There was this steep hill with a sharp turn at the bottom, brutal in the winter. He had the bus flying down the hill and one of the upper years yelled “hold on” and we all got really quiet because we thought he was gonna roll the bus. He somehow didn’t but that was the last time he ever drove our bus. Not sure if he drove a school bus after that.
I remember this like it was yesterday. The dope driving the bus was a nyc fireman who was late for the job in nyc & tried to save time by beating the train to the crossing. His stupidity & arrogance took 5 lives.
seems like he got off pretty lightly considering the tragedy and carnage he caused! awesome video as always John! whenever i see your notification pop up i instantly drop what im doing and get comfy for some well documented and fascinating viewing and then watch several more Plainly Difficult to slake my disaster thirst lol cheers mate! Kia Ora from Northland NZ!!:)
once saw a train moving at walking speed, so i thought i'd jump up on it and ride it to school. when i got up next to it it was moving at about 20mph not the 5 it appeared at distance. never try to beat a train, the train is traveling faster than it looks
Wow I grew up in Nyack and had no idea this happened back in the day, I’ll have to ask my grandmother, she taught at that school.
5 years probation for causing 5 children to die??? That’s insane and rlly sad
Risky driving is one reason. But it's definitely to ask, where drivers are set into time frames, regularly only to be kept by such actions, and penalties for being late, force them to do so. Here in this case to conflict day time job / additional job should have been a no go for the company... But even worse, as said above, such stress is done be companies themselves. And this causes bad driving, bad habits slowly seeking in...
In the 80's I drove a school bus. Big part of the training was train crossing. Now I still pause before crossing and never try to beat a train.
It's funny that the MBTA bus stuck out like a sore thumb in the drone footage. It wasn't until the third rewind that I saw Allston was on screen at the same time, before the gas station, confirming that it was definitely a Boston suburb shot!
(Cough) it’s Rockland County (cough). I’m fairly sure this accident is what spurred modern regulations that require not only school buses but many other types of heavy vehicles to stop before any rail crossing even if it appears to be clear. And yes, it’s pretty sickening that the only penalty for causing an incident like this is “don’t do it again for at least five years or you’ll be sorry!” If you think our addiction to cars in the US makes us culturally indifferent to road safety now, the state of play 50 years ago was definitely even worse.
As with with airplane crashes, sadly regulations are Written in Blood. While the crossing should have had Gates. Trying to beat a train is an absolute No-No....
Five kids died and he got 5 years probation? Even though it was clearly his fault, there were complaints made about how he drove in general and, although he never intended any harm, he deliberately put all of them in harm’s way. I’d say he was lucky there weren’t more deaths
It's a shame he wasn't one of those killed in the collision! People that should have been monitoring him KNEW he had bad driving habits but chose to look the other way so they are just as guilty as he was!
@@richardcline1337Why should he have died? That's not a good *Punishment,* it's just *YOUR* way of wanting some *Revenge* for the deaths of those 5 kids!!! ~ JonseyG 👲
@@EchosOfWhiterun_5555DocOfStyle So you are saying his life is more important than any of those kids' lives were?
@@richardcline1337"So you are (...) kids' lives were?"
It wasn't, but him dying wouldn't magically bring one of more of those children back to life.
Just in time again, thank you John!
Ahhh, finally happy to have clarification as to why school busses are supposed to stop prior to rail road crossings. There are many close to where I live in southeastern United States, and I often get stuck behind them and have always wondered why the stop, it’s like reading the tag on a hair dryer and wondering why they tell you not to use it in the shower. Thank you for making my favorite, couch locked, stoned and wanting to know everything kind of content. I love everything you put out from radiological incidents to domestic incidents: Phenomenal narrative, and the visuals always help to make the stories easier to imagine. Good work, genuinely. Even if you never see this, keep it up! Love it ❤️🔥
That's crazy. Five kids dead because he's late for work, and the guy gets _probation?_ Not to mention the dozens of injuries, including amputation. Not justice at all.
my dad told me how long it took a train to come to full stop, which is a full minute, as he used to occasionally go to a plant which trains would stop at to give materials, don't remember what type of plant it was.
Did he tell you how much distance a loaded bus (which has 48 kids which somehow couldn't fit into 66 seats) covers before it stops?
The narrator doesn't seem to know and didn't bother to check.
no he never had to really learn it@@jefferyG499
The fact the kids were yelling about there being a train and the driver continuing makes me extra livid. I remember knowing the dangers of trains even as a kid.
This man being a firefighter, you would think he put the safety of these kids number one.
Been enough train collisions locally over the last 5-10 years that I can confidently say that even physical barriers won't prevent stupid people from trying to beat a train through a crossing if there's any potential way for the barrier to be driven around.
I'm assuming this is based on your through investigation comparing crossings before and after physical gate blockers are installed?
The NTSB would disagree with you (as would anyone with common sense).
But hey, I'm sure you've seen a couple of collisions (that *definitely* wouldn't have happened sans-gates, right?) and clearly all of the studies showing massive drops in incidents are wrong.
Damn that confirmation bias gets people every time, I swear.
No its from repeatedly seeing accidents at the same handful of crossings where stupid people try to race around the lowered arms to beat the train because they don't want to wait.
I'm not saying physical barriers at crossings are bad; I'm just saying society has a way of making better idiots that will ignore them.
Here from like 170k subs and it’s almost 1m now. Congrats man
Thank you!!!
Even if late, thats a pretty massive risk to take, with nearly 50 kids on board! Unbelievable..
Human factors cause so many more accidents but they are ofter overlooked. The airline industry excells at finding out the real root cause of accidents. If the bus driver usually sped because he had to be at another job why? Why does a firefighter have to work 2 jobs? Now I know its US and you don't get holidays and you have to get 2-3 jobs to survive but why?
That school bus driver should have received a much harsher punishment than 5 years probation.
Once again you are in my area! I never heard of this incident but I just looked it up to learn more about it. My heart goes out to all involved and still traumatized (including those on the train)
There was a great movie on TV about this when I was a kid in the ‘70s. I never forget that scene with the kids shouting at the bus driver, and then the crash. It was pretty graphic for that time. It made me very aware of train crossings!
what is the movie called
@@jenniferarmstrong5447 i don’t remember.
Thunderbolt 1000 Siren Productions has an excellent video about this accident.
I knew it would be a train collision as soon as I saw a school bus was involved. They just go together so well
I remember when my mom ran a business from our house. We had hedges surrounding our house, waist-height as people would actually walk up to our windows and peer inside without them.
We also were on a corner, a blind one which the town refused to put up a sign warning drivers that the driveway to my mom's business was blind.
One afternoon a customer got her pants hemmed and I came down at the last minute to help with something (can't remember), but I got to see a near-fatal accident.
A bus driver going about 45-50 miles per hour (there are two signs on the street specifically saying that the limit is 25), around the corner as she's backing out.
The driver slams so hard on the brakes I can see the children from where I was standing being thrown forward and leans hard on the horn.
Thank God there wasn't a collision, and we called the bus company and told them what happened, but it was close and shows how easily something can happen.
I remember this which is to say it was significant enough to make the news here in South Australia.
"Right in the path of a freight train" is never a good thing. Thumb's up for the intro.
Thank you!
I think they are much safer now probably because they electronically monitor the busses but back in the 80s we had some wild bus drivers. We even had drivers that would modify the busses. Everything from disconnecting governors to installing massive sound systems we had one bus driver that had literally installed massive home stereo speakers (those old cabinet speakers) under the seats of his bus.
Nice job on this, thank you for sharing.
I can just imagine sitting on the right side and seeing the train approaches is terrifying
Limpsfield Road, Warlingham.
Any prizes for spotting all the outro places?
🌞🌝
1:44 - 1:45 Something about seeing you actually put up the Penn Central mating worm logo - not just mentioning that Penn Central operated it - that makes my rail buff side happy. (Even if it is an ugly-as-hell logo IMO)
something went wrong with your timestamps
@@NoNameAtAll2 Fixed it I think 😁
Soothing voice perfectly counteracts the horrific topic. Makes it sound hopeful that people have learned from the mistake I guess
This really shows that some people are unable to operate safely and normally when outside of normal parameters. I mean, being a driver sounds like such a simple job but frankly it requires a certain character. Especially for a school bus driver.
A disaster involving Penn Central, that wasn't actually caused by Penn Central lol
nice vid as usual
Glad you enjoyed it
Thanks John. Cheers mate.
we always got silent at those railroad crossings, the bus driver wouldn’t drive if you didn’t stop talking and you better or guess who’s banned from the bus now. I’m so lucky I made it out of childhood alive