Checking the Pushrod Length on Small Block Ford 302 | Stock Length Match
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
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Checking the pushrod length is the only way to accurately purchase new pushrods for your small-block engine build. In this video, I am demonstrating how I check the length of pushrods.
As a 40year Custom Harley Davidson Fabricator & Builder, I just wanted to comment on your presentation of "How To". I thought they are very well done, informative and concise.
You are correct if you know what you're doing already. Placing the TQ wrench at 12 o'clock helps ensure you remain within 1/4 to 1/2 turn to hit torque spec. If you do not keep that rule in effect you need different length rods and or shims. The way I did it is the proper way. Do it however you wish. This is how I do it. Centering roller in valve stem tip is accurate geometry.
You post up extremely detailed videos. Best videos out as far as checking pushrod length, lifter installs, and basic valvetrain info in general. Thanks for these vids. Very helpful.
Love your videos man, short and sweet. You communicate the message very well. Thanks for sharing
you don't need it centered you need it smallest thinnest witness mark first and if it's centered cool if not as long as it's in between the end of 1rst 3rd and beginning of 3rd 3rd of tip. but thinnest is what you want
This is an awesome series of videos, thanks for the great tips! Im looking at redoing the top end of my 69 302 and this is great for visual learners like me
You did this very well and was top notch with the explanation!!! Keep up the good work kiddo!!!
Like the trick with the dry marker!
Great video!!
I like how you are detailed with information and you also provide tips and explain things like in your last video you explained what a roller motor is thanks for all the tips and advice keep up the good work.
I'll definitely be coming back to this video when it comes time for this for me.
From what I understand, you also need a mechanical roller lifter so the lifter does not collapse when using the actual valve springs and not the special ones made for this check.
James Winder 5.0 2004 exploer
@@frankjauregui4625 The 5.0 was discontinued in 2001.
Great vid for understanding these bits. I am a bit confused about one thing though: If 2 thousands have been taken off the heads, why would these have to be ADDED to the pushrod length? To me it seems logical that it should be subtracted, so that the pushrods are shortened now that the head is a bit lower.
That's what I thought, if the head is shaved the Valve would be closer to the piston, then you add 2 thou to the pushed puts you 4 thous closer to piston........
Menkent Dk if the valve geometry calls for a longer push rod then you add the length to the push rod. the idea is to get the roller tip to sweep across the smallest area in the middle of the valve stem. the rod length will dictate the amount of side force applied to the valve. if too much side load is present then the valve guides will wear out very quickly. in addition to that the stability at higher rpm will be much easier to attain. one note though... don't buy junk. buy once, cry once. if you don't have all of the money for better quality then save a little more. more wear on the intake side of the valve tip then is too short, more wear on the exhaust side then its too long.
You dont worry about 2 thousandths. Lol
Kevin Jackson this measuring has nothing to do with the valve to piston clearance.
For every .050 in length you add or reduce off the length of the pushrod you may see It move on the valve tip by .015 to .020 thou.
.002 is irrelevant in terms of push rod lengths..050 .100 .150 etc are the changes or demands that your looking for.
Rocker cup depth,valve job depth,valve length,cam lobe design and aggression,or cylinder head height changes are all major determining factors when inspection for pushrod length changes.
I enjoy looking at these video's you have on rebuilding engine. You done a GREAT job on this.... I have a 4.6L 281Cu. In. V8 that i will be braking down soon.
On solid mount rollers (pedestal mount) pushrod length has nothing to do with geometry. The height of the pedestal changes the geometry.
I know i'm 9 years late, but from reading the comments i only seen on reply from the guy in the video telling to go to hes website. I have 3 of these 302 and one will be rebuilt soon to put in my truck as the old 83 engine is under powered. Runs great but under powered , only 140 hp. 2 are roller motors and one is not.
I find this useful, I have to build a 8.2 deck 302 stroker for my mustang to be boost friendly..
When you're setting the rocker torque and checking pushrod length, are you pumping up your lifters by priming the oil pump? Also, did you notice any of your valves opening a bit when reaching final rocker torque?
Excellent and easy to understand! Thank you!
Are the lifters pumped up or are they dry? Does the pushrod push the lifter cup down to any degree at all when torqued it into place. Thanks
I"m confused,if you shave 2 thou. off the heads don't you need a shorter push rod?It may explain way your runner mark went higher .Had you ordered the push rods 2thou. shorter your mark would have remained in the same area would it not?
+Boom Boom Boom Boom I know I'm a bit late to the game here, but I felt like replying anyway. 2 thou isn't enough to significantly change rocker geometry. Pushrods usually come in 50 thou increments.
Good video but why didn't you use the Comp Cams pushrod checker and purposely make the rod length incorrect? Would have drove the point home.
If you had 2 thou. removed from your head, should you not have a 2 thou. shorter push rod, not longer?
denny bobber if the valve geometry calls for a longer push rod then you add the length to the push rod. the idea is to get the roller tip to sweep across the smallest area in the middle of the valve stem. the rod length will dictate the amount of side force applied to the valve. if too much side load is present then the valve guides will wear out very quickly. in addition to that the stability at higher rpm will be much easier to attain. one note though... don't buy junk. buy once, cry once. if you don't have all of the money for better quality then save a little more. more wear on the intake side of the valve tip then is too short, more wear on the exhaust side then its too long.
No, you dont worry about .002 because you will not see a pattern difference with a sharpy mark on your valve stem.
Of course I will be using shaft mount rockers though cool video...
Painting the oil filter boss is a no no if any paint come off well you know i never do it just tape it off
If the base circle on the performance cam is .049 smaller than a Explorer cam or fox roller cam, then the pushrod should be 6.30 inches with GT40 heads and roller lifters with stock 1.6 rockers. He probably is forgetting to tell us the base circle on his cam is smaller than stock in his explanation.
Please don't ever take these videos down
What if u don’t get the correct torque spec from the 1/4 to 1/2 turn ? Do u shim the pedestal mount or adjust the pushrod longer ?
Amen
You want the narrowest wear pattern possible and being in the center is not always where that is. Your wear pattern looks pretty wide.
Very,
The pattern can be .070 - .090 but .080 is ideal. His pattern looked very wide indeed but as Scott mentioned, being dead center is not always best. I don't mind being slightly off center as long as my pattern width is ideal. Being centered does help keep guide wear to a minimum but being slightly off center by a few thou will normally not affect it.
With lifters dry or oil soaked?
Push rod length has nothing to do with how the roller rolls across the valve tip. You adjust that by placing shims under the pedestals. Then you determine your correct push rod length.
Travis Cooper put a pushrod in that is 1 inch short and test your theory than. Lol
The instructions that came with my scorpions say 1/2 to 1 full turn. Then torque to 20 ft lbs. Wonder what changed from 1/4 back then to 1/2 now
1/4 to half turn preload on most rocker systems is where you want to be,if you drive down the rod into the lifter more than that then you risk the hydraulics forcing the rod,the rocker and the spring into a potential bind issue or a dead lockout issue.
Hydraulics will always win over springs.
And the dead center line on the valve tip is bad informarion.The thinset line usually about .010 thou past center long (exhaust side of the motor) is the best geometry for a valve and the guide.That indicates proper sweep through the low mid and higher lift movement.Dead center is not the full sweep of the rocker.
I gess Im lost but if you take .002 off the head don't you need a smaller pushrod?
runaroundfool if the valve geometry calls for a longer push rod then you add the length to the push rod. the idea is to get the roller tip to sweep across the smallest area in the middle of the valve stem. the rod length will dictate the amount of side force applied to the valve. if too much side load is present then the valve guides will wear out very quickly. in addition to that the stability at higher rpm will be much easier to attain. one note though... don't buy junk. buy once, cry once. if you don't have all of the money for better quality then save a little more. more wear on the intake side of the valve tip then is too short, more wear on the exhaust side then its too long.
All that and you didnt even answer his question lol but no .002 won't make a noticable different.
I did what you said and it seems like I don't get enough threads. Like the PR is to long . At risk of sounding stupid I think maybe a little shorter PR. Maybe best to get a PR checker?
I got a noise lifter on my 302 and watching your videos I think I can change them. Would upgrading the rockers be worth doing at this point
Yes sir
I have a 90 foxbody GT. I bought it as is. and It has a 302 with TFS track heat intake manifold. with patriot 185 aluminum heads. It’s has gold 1.6 roller rockers. Not sure what brand? Also has a TrickFlow stage 2 camshaft. But the car isn’t performing like it should...it seems like it’s missing a bit. Very rough. I had the timing set twice. Added a billet distributor new coil new wires new plugs. Also Deleted the IAC and EGR. Runs a little better. Throttle response is on the $. Just it’s missing something. Fuel Pressure is at 40psi. Maybe it needs more fuel ?
Thinking of switching the cam out. As was looking into what push rod length I needed. This video helped a lot. 👍🏼
the cam is made for TFS head specs would that matter if it was paired up with different set of heads.. my possible theory
thank you
You got foam with yours??? Its 2018 now. I got cheap cardboard spacers and a box bout half as big.
Charlie Bravo me too haha just recently.
He to in 2019
I found an easier way. I put my stock pushrods in that are too long, nut spins on 5 turns to 0 lash. Take the pushrod out, spin nut down 5 turns, align the rocker to center of valve stem by counting turns past the 5. I ended up with .250 shorter than stock. Sharpie on valve stem and spin the motor over. Perfect. 7/16 rocker stud has .050 per full turn, 3/8 rocker stud is .042 per full turn. You dont have to get that technical by ordering pushrods .002 different. Lol. Smokey Yunick used to run his rockers towards the outside of the valve stem in order to cheat the class rules. Yes it wears your guides more. He used to achieve a .020 increase in lift by doing this. The angle of the fulcrum is changed.
How far do you think the lifter collapsed by turning it a 1/2 turn? I'm about to measure for my pushrods so I'm just curious. Thanks
Cobrafanatik22 3/8 studs have .042 per full turn of thread, 7/16 studs have .050 per thread turn. Fine thresd.
hey man awesome videos thanks so much for the information I'm throwing on a set of gt40p heads with an explorer intake my question for you is can I use the stock "bolt on" style rockers from my e7 heads on the gt40p heads, I know you said in video pushrods are ok and for installing them do I just torque to spec 25 lbs as the manual says? any help would be much appreciated thanks!
I'm staying with stock ho cam too just swapping heads and intake
on the gt40p heads I upgraded with a set of Alex springs good for up to 600 lift
yes you can use the rockers from the e7 heads, they are the same rocker arm
Do stock push rods fit gt 40 3 bars direct bolt on?
Hello, excuse me, I got the instructions for the lenght of the pushrods, can you tell me What exactly is the difference between the 289 & 302? as long as I can see everything for the 289 matches in the 302!
Thanks a lot! Still trying to learn
Old books used to say tighten 1/2 to 3/4 turn past zero lash. I split it and go 5/8 past zero.
Are dose rods good for e303 cam or 1.7 should i use??
What camshaft are you using in that build thanks
i need help with my valve train. if someone can listen i xan try to explain my 302 issue
are thos gt 40 p heads and what valve springs are you using
Hi, I picked up a 69 mustang with a 302, the valves tips are different diameters and the exhaust valves have little metal caps on them that look like they are trying to equal the diameter of the intake valves. Do you know what is going on here ?
Those are valve lash caps and they are hardened for durability..
Or u can get a thicker gasket
What lifters you use ?
what springs and stuff did you use???
I am having trouble grasping this. You had 0.002 taken off your head. Why are you adding anything to your pushrod length? Your head is now 0.002" shorter which would mean squat to the pushrod because with hydraulic lifters, rollers included, you have to set a preload on the lifter so even though you have some meat taken off the head even using the OEM stock pushrod length for a roller engine you still set the preload and still obtain the same results.
Next thing is your roller position over your valve stem tip. Why are you concerned about where it is touching on the valve tip? You do know that the rocker is a preset length and that as the valve is compressed the rocker tip is moving across the valve tip as you can see by the paint being rubbed off. That is why roller tips are better because they allow the rocker tip to roll over the tip of the valve vs rubbing across causing drag for the engine.
Like wise I am wondering why you are also worried about torque on adjustable rocker arms. You set the cam in a position where your lifter is on the base circle tighten up the rocker arm till you cant spin the pushrod then go 1/2 to 1 full turn to set the lifter preload. I generally use 3/4 of a turn for my preloads and it works every time.
So in the end I am trying to grasp why you did what you did. I am curious about your reasoning.
Not a fan of the 1/2 to full turn method. I've seen alot if guys bend valves that way. I find its better to do it this way (at least for me, but i like to take every precaution). it's better to have pull the valve covers off the readjust the valves then losing a valve all together.
1/2 to 1 full turn is nothing on the preload for a hydraulic lifter. I had to reset the lifters on a SBC 350 that they had them cranked down 6 full turns after the push rod stopped spinning and the engine ran fine and didn't bend a push rod. When you are going 1/2 to 1 turn past the point of your push rod not being able to spin by hand is just taking the preload out to allow your oil pressure to take up the valve lash to prevent noisy valve train.
Milner62 These are pedestal rockers, not adjustable without pesky shims.
Corey Phillips, You don't run an aftermarket cam with factory non adjustable rocker arms. If they are non adjustable rocker arms you torque them and go. Its been way too long since I have done the original comment but if I remember right an aftermarket camshaft was being used which does not allow use of non adjustable rocker arms and anyone running factory style rockers with a aftermarket performance cam is not right in the head. Hate to say it but it is true.
Is it true better the cam the less u hv to find push rod length but what is better ???
Cody. Take a look at my website 302 budget build dot com. I list all part numbers etc on there. They're crane beehives. E303 cam.
Can you tell me the exact part number of these rockers?
You can get these from summit racing
br549
hey could you help me and tell what push rod length would get me in the ball park with gt40p heads and comp cam xe270hr part 35-35-8 please help thanks and stock rocker arms
.002" , is less than the thickness of a paper- clip.... I don't see how that makes a REAL DIFFERENCE... the head porting is what's really gonna matter.
You didn’t show shit about having to measure for pushrods.
you are wrong..... Think a little harder