I booked an Electrician to check on my DIY Solar-Battery System.
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- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- Last week, the electrician was in the Off-Grid-Garage. As the system grows bigger and bigger, I felt it was time to get someone professional in to check on safety but also make some recommendations on what to do with the solar installation on the roof.
So far so good. I was a bit relieved, that there was no major problem with the design or system itself. Just a few things need improvement and upgrade. We also need to install a ground fault alarm which the electrician will do. For the aging solar panels on the roof, he made an interesting suggestion which I find more and more attractive... The STCs can really save you some money. But will I go this way?
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My county inspector showed up in southern Nevada and had no idea what he was looking at... this was 9 years ago, 3kw of solar on poles, outback charge controllers, Pb acid cells, and a 4kw trace inverter with no power poles or grid connection. He didn't believe me till I took him in the house and ran the microwave turned on all the lights and ran the propane heater...lol 😂😆 ... Spent the next two hours explaining how everything works, he actually wanted to set his own system up in his cabin... He almost forgot to sign my final inspection form 😋😋😋
Haha, great. I guess they learned now and know better by now. Lots of people running batteries these days and lots of regulations are now applying.
thinking outside the box... how about extending the garage roof eaves to create the required space around the panels
Easy to say, not practical to do.
Exactly! You beat me to it.
Was thinking the same just add a narrow verandah where he needs the extra space.
Love it ❤
You could do a covered extension out of heavy steel with an I beam in the overhead....then you could have a lift point and beam runner with a chain fall.... Makes unloading heavy stuff easier on the back 😋
Your battery bank looks beautiful in its display case.
I like how it just rolls off their tongue "replace your panels". The diy for you is to figure it all out. 😄
Great video.
Gratuliere! 3 Sticker aufpicken und ein so ein Ground-Warn-Dings-Kastl montieren und alles ist konform! Ist doch ein super Outcome! Und ganz ehrlich - diese depperten Abstandsregeln bei den Solarpanels erscheinen ja völlig willkürlich! Doppelter Abstand vom Dach zur Seite! Wem fällt denn sowas ein und vor allem: was hat der geraucht? Naja, aber wenn Du natürlich mit neuen Panelen auch den erforderlichen Abstand einhalten kannst, die KWp nach oben schrauben kannst und das sogar noch gefördert kriegst: go for it! Du kannst mit dem doch sicher reden, dass Du ihm die Panels abkaufst und Du das Zeugs alles selbst installierst und er das dann „abnimmt“… (?)
Michael Halt has excellent electrical and grounding videos. I believe he and his group are on the committee that make the codes for US. Free, Educational videos.
Yes, watched them all. I think he's in the UK.
Thanks Andy, as always.
Great stuff.
Compliance with all the myriad regulations seems to be getting more and more complex, and regulations are certainly sometimes flawed - as happened with rooftop isolators in Australia, which caused numerous fires. Thank goodness that one eventually went away, but not before probably hundreds of thousands were installed, which are an ongoing fire risk.
No roof top isolators any more, thankfully. But they still require a string disconnect on the roof which is accessible in case of an emergency. This can now be a dedicated MC4 connection though. Still 🤦♂️
The surge protectors are pretty simple. They are basically just tacked on to the positive, negative, and ground lines. Not in series, not in parallel... just tacked on. Taps off the main wiring. Basically the surge protector handle surges on positive, negative, AND/OR ground and it does it by comparing relative voltages for all configurations. Plus to Neg, Plus to Ground, and Neg to Ground. For the surge protector to work properly you need all three.
If any differential voltage exceeds a certain value, the surge protector attempts to shunt across the differential that is being exceeded in order to limit the voltage. That's it. The surge protector is designed to handle the energy and voltage of a lightning strike nearby. Typically the energy involved is fairly small... still large enough to require a discharge tube of some sort, though. But a strike only lasts a few milliseconds and voltages redistribute within a few tens of milliseconds.
But the problem with lightning strikes is always voltage and that is what the surge protector is designed to deal with. Very high voltages (thousands of volts) can develop... sometimes it is the GROUND itself that surges. In fact, that is usually the case. Even if the current is very low, electronics can't handle high voltages. So that is what the surge protector deals with. It prevents high differential voltages from reaching your charger controllers / solar inverters / etc.
Lightning does not have to actually strike the system to ruin it. It can be as far away as a few hundred feet and still develop high enough voltages to destroy something. So that is what the surge protector primarily deals with.
-Matt
The problem of surge protectors is not how to connect them but how to install them with keeping the ground connection that short as required.
Leave your panels where they are Andy, they are fine. If you feel you must comply with paternalistic regs, just shuffle them in a bit.
Why not build a solar carport structure (no corrugated steel, just PV) over the gravel area next to the shed, it seems to get less shade than any of your roofs anyway.
You cannot just build a carport structure out of panels. This all needs approval and a builder as well and cost $$$. It's not the Wild West here...
Congrats to the successful inspection. With new modules and 14kWp you need anyway new MPPT. The Victron RS have 450V for longer strings and a galvanic isolation between the modules and the battery.
Thank you. I will keep the existing 150/70 and get two 150/60 for the other two roofs. The RS MPPTs are for higher string voltages which don't make sense in my situation due to the shading.
That’s a good outcome. No major problems found.
Hi Andy.
The Victron charge control is very robust and I’ve never had a problem keeping them happy as long as the you are below the OCV of the control. I’ve put them at several remote locations and they are rock solid. The panels are new and rated at 59.62 volts each (148.86 per string). Even with the batteries at a full state of charge (no load) and having experienced many “cloud edge effect” cycles, not a problem. During the first few months most panels degrade notably before leveling off. One installer had another major brand charge control that would occasionally fault due to over voltage from cloud edge effect. His remedy was to slightly cover a cell in the string and six months later removed it. Problem solved and absolute maximum long term charge was realized.
Yeah, that is a consideration worth. It will be just at the border of Voc for these controllers. The other problem is, I would need to connect three panels in series. They would not fit in one above each other, so I have to set them up in 2 rows above and one next to it. That will be tricky with the shading and could be less efficient.
I sure hope it's robust. Victron is 2x the cost of everything else.
@@randybobandy9828
Yes, but get what you pay for. At least in charge controllers, I can’t speak for inverters or their others stuff. The amount of power made through the range is amazing from a Victron charge controller. Most other mpp brands only make the best power towards the top end of the OCV rating. Victron makes power much earlier and more efficient, hence much less heat from the unit. The app is easy to use and has the right settings. Very rarely do you hear of a Victron running amuck to the point of damaging a bms then the cells. A cheap charge control throwing pulses can and do bust anything connected to them.
For cracked backside of panels, use neutral white caulk. Put it over the cracks and drag a spatula or scraper to push it in. It's a bit of work, but it will keep the moisture out. I had the same problem.
But then they crack elsewhere and I have to take them down again...
And I bet he gave you a 100%
Not quite, a few things need upgrading, but it's not too bad...
The best experience or the worst experience you've ever had. I wood call it the best. The pain of someone pointing out your mistakes is far outweighed by the knowledge. An earth fault shuts my system down. The biggest thing I have is MC4 connectors being old and not water tite. Another great video!!!
Thank you. Yeah, I'm glad, I did it and have a clear direction now.
For the surge protector, yes it got to be connected in PARRALEL to plus and minus BUT it has to be placed correctly, let's say you got a wire underground (from panels to the inverter), coming from the wire to the panels 1-Surge protector, 2-Fuse, 3-Breaker/Isolator ..... this way you protect panels from a current/voltage spike AND you can easily change your fuse or surge by interupting the panels.. On the inverter side... wire coming FROM the panels you got to have 1- Breaker/isolator, 2-Surge protector, Fuse, this way you can isolate the system from the panels.
Seen from the line the surge protector is after the "switch"... then before everything else, this way you can isolate it if needed.
Well .. that's how i see it.
Ground should be at the same potential, even if house is 20m from shed ... same ground.
But those are for security, i do not get it .. in yuor country you got what ? regalatio.... regul... relagation ? What does it mean ..? ;D
Hence I want the sparky to deal with that. It's beyond DIY...
Wow. Great to hear. I was biting my nails when you booked him in! Thanks for humbly sharing. I learnt something about ground alarm. Get the new panels.
Yeah, me too. I wanted a clear direction an what to do next and what needs to be changed. The new panels are very tempting!
@Andi, just enlarge your roof space by adding 20 cm ? of corrugated sheet iron on each side and you're done ;-)
That would involve a builder. They cost money too.
I'm not sure how the regulations are in Australia, but in Germany, you could also ground one of the battery poles intentionally with ground and stick to the same safety guidelines as you do with the AC system (TN-C and TN-S), like over-current and short-circuit protectors to circuit-break when ground shorts occur. The L, N and PE (TN-S) PEN (TN-C) for AC are simply renamed to L+, L-, PE (TN-S) and PEL (TN-C) for DC. This is quite new to the VDE standards.
Almost the same standards down here with AS3000 being similar to VDE0100. I think grounding your battery is only necessary in RVs and boats but not really beneficial in a stationary installation.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia It's not a matter of "beneficial" to a certain application, it's simply to design a system to ensure, voltages to ground stay below harzadeous levels (direct and indirect body connections). How you achieve it, does not matter, but you need to ensure, that safety measures stay in place an this could be sometimes "tricky" to ensure. Simply ask yourself when I go with an isolated DC-System and one rail connects to ground unintentionally, are my safety measures still working? Is it detected? Do all (touchable) metal parts stay always safely below 120 VDC and 60 VAC? Does it get detected and the system gets switched off. If this first unintentional gounding is not leading to this problem and not reported to the user, but a second failure creates undetected hazardeous voltages, does this then switch off the system? There is a reason, why VDE strongly asks for two isolation levels, enforced isolation or other measures to ensure safety for the user.
@@the78mole I have a floating system at the moment. If one of the DC potentials get in contact with ground, nothing will happen. There would be no high potential or dangerous voltage. If the second DC will connect to ground, it will create a short and the installed safety devices will trigger.
The new ground fault alarm device will monitor this and set off an alarm if one of the DC potentials gets in contact with ground. That's a requirement with solar and none-isolated MPPTs and inverters.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Exactl, with floating PV/Battery, you need a fault alarm device, as you need with an IT-Systen. This is exactly what I was pointing to. And a TN-System would be the alternative without isolation checking device.
Well done! Glad everything bar the panels passed with flying colours!
Does not look too bad, so I'm relieved.
I am sure the electrician learned a lot 😀.
You are an inspiration.
Cheers from Germany!
He definitely learned a lot about the battery and BMS setup as he has not seen that before. So win-win situation.
Here in N.C USA the DC of the solar needs its own ground. But the AC side only bond only in main panel. then grouped in all other not bonded to the Nature Some places it is different The idea is if it is bonded in the sub panel then you can back feed on the ground. Good luck
Finally u got it done. Lol. By the way the spd correct way to connect is Fuse,MCB, SPD again MCB and use a different earth rod for spd. I have used a 16mm earth wire bcz of the distance.
Now only the video about the bms calibration video of heltec is missing. U never got through to tell us what the email from heltec said. Thanks.
That totally depends on local regulations.
The Heltec video will come at some point, just not enough time
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I asked a SPD manufacturer he gv me that this was the best method. Yes local regulations could be different.
I was wondering about this. Thanks for the update, Andy.
Have you ever thought of AC-coupling some of your PV with e.g. a fronius primo inverter? Works pretty well and (almost) out of the box with the victron system. Even in an offgrid situation. The Multi then will increase the frequency linearly to regulate the fronius-inverters maximum feed in when the battery gets full.
With this you could also do strings from 80-800 V DC and not be restriced from your MPPTs max Voc. I think the MPPT RS's with up to 450V are to big for your arrays (and also pretty ineffient for a charge controller).
AC-coupling would increase efficiency if the PV-power gets used directly and is not stored first (charing your car or using the hot water system in the future in your house). When always first charging the battery, DC-coupling is more efficient tho. So I would go for a mixed AC/DC PV setup in your case.
@Ando - yeah - a Fronius AC coupled addition would work. I think they are the only company to have worked with Victron to 'tune their violins' regarding frequency, etc.
Also, I think a Smartasolar RS 450/100 (or 200) would work well for Andy. There's lots of features in there for the price - 2 trackers (4 in the 200), isolation between solar & battery, earth fault protection built in. The slightly lower efficiency is a good trade off, I think. I use a 450/100 & I'm very happy.
@@Browneye2566 Refering to the Venus OS manual (2.4), frequency shifting will work with fronius, sma, solar edge and abb inverters at least while also communicating with the venus os. (zero feed in not possible for sma and solar edge, but this is not relevant for off grid).
But inverters of those brands will show up in venus os without the need of an energy meter displaying the inverters power. With such an energy meter you basically can integrate every inverter into a victron system, as long as it shuts down completely at elevated frequency. I don't know any inverter that doesn't do that. For frequency shifting and regulation, the inverter itself need to have that option in its settings.
@@Browneye2566 In Andy's case I would definatly prefer ac coupling, as he is able to switch on loads when the sun is shining to use the pv power directly and also has dc-coupled pv in the mix to prevent a deadlock situation possible when only using ac pv.
Directly consumed pc will always be more efficient as there is only one step of power conversion necessary (DC pv - > ac, then into load) and not 2 (DC pv - > DC battery - > inverting through multiplus, then into load).
As long as you don't need to store pv energy first for later use, dc-coupling requires more steps of conversion and will be less efficient from the whole system's perspective.
But when needing to store pv energy because you can't use it directly, dc coupling all the way. One less conversion(DC pv to ac) and dc to dc battery charging is generally more efficient than ac battery charging.
As a side note: the primo inverters also come with every safety feature that you mentioned previously, can make use of higher pv voltages, also have two mppt trackers, are plug and play and supported by victron.
Yes, this is all in the pipeline. I have a small 1.5kW Fronius here and will use this for test purposes...
I'd be really interested to see you do an AC coupled inverter in this system, it would negate your concern around the VOC and diversify your charge solution as well. Victron has an document called the factor 1.0 rule that is a good explanation of the limitation but also puts you on the right track to set it up in the first place
We have a system with both DC and AC charge sources on a 45kwh battery, the AC coupling is awesome when attaching large strings and its cheap in install costs
Coming soon...
The charging with parallel strings is per design due to the shading. Going higher in voltage and panels will only make it worse. This is now the best efficiency.
The shadow dimension increases as the object moves closer to the light source. Big shadow big shade ✌️👁️👁️👍
My utility installed new 9 meter tall utility poles for the low cost of $200.00 USD each. It took them minutes. I believe solar pv modules should be placed high with spacing to create 40-60% shade. The landscape health increase contrasted with undesirable heat gain of surface installation speaks volumes.
Live your dream !
You are energetic, precise on your work, I like the way you are enjoying the work.
Yes, thank you
I see you are going through what I did when I was thinking about what inverters/mppt to get. I went with Growatt only because they can handle 450 volts 30 amps on there mppt controls built in and have 100 amp chargers at 48 volts with 5k inverter. I wanted Victron or Schneider. Schneider is best there is for USA. To get what Schneider it would have been $16,000. I went with Growatt and spent $2400 to get a good system not the best though. Money is money and we must do what we can afford.
Yes, absolutely. The new panels will provide the best solution as I cannot replace the cracked panels and would end up with a lot less power from these roofs.
HI Andy, I am Busy "Upgrading" my current install, BUT, I have found that if there is an SMA PV inverter on your bus you will have problems controlling it. I am removing mine as I am only able to use it in the morning there after once my batteries are full there is not enough load to keep the inverter under control.... So, 1: I am missing out on available solar, 2: Frequency shifting the SMA does not work to well with the Victron, There are a few PV solar inverters that work with the Victron stuff but SMA is not one of them.... The long and short is. I am missing out on about 850W worth of energy that I could use to power stuff but, I am with the new upgrade going to go over to a full DC install, my Victron will now have to work a bit harder but that is it... Congrats on the certificate!
Glad it all went well for you. My grid tied garage is slowly coming along, have now run 25mm SWA out to our detached garage and back to the house, eventually the whole house will run off a Quattro 48/10000.
Can you run the whole house form a 10kW inverter? Is this enough?
I was going to do the same with 2x5kW Multis, one for each phase. But I think it is too tight.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia We're on a single phase, a Quattro 48/10000 would give us 8kw at 25c (this is the UK - it may get warmer for a couple of months over the summer), it can also pass through up to 100 amps, being grid tied any excess just comes from the grid. It's only in the event of a power cut (which is rare) we'd have to be careful, but at the moment I'm pretty sure we'd be fine. Hot water and the hob are both gas, so that leaves just the oven, washing machine, dish washer and kettle as heavy draw items. We will be changing to an induction hob in the near future, and there is the possibility of an ASHP at some point, no idea when we'll have an electric car. I'd need to fit some sort of alarm to warn us when there is a power cut, otherwise we'd never know, and wouldn't know to limit our use.
@@TheRonskiman Ah, yeah, that's a great feature of the Quattro or MP II of pulling extra power from the grid if battery or solar power is not sufficient. You can also push excess energy back in the grid, so there is actually a benefit of staying connected.
I will have to wait until 2028 and see what the market is like then to make a decision of staying connected or going off-grid altogether.
Ahahah! The electrician comes in, sees all the apparatus and must have fell on his ass... We already know your system, but I am pretty sure you got a new subscriber there.
I also think you should go ahead and have it professionally installed, if you got those incentives from the state. Specially in this convulsion times where energy are paramount. You will be able to move in your car, you can cook, have a shower and keep your refrigerators running.
You are still my favourite you tube channel by quite a margin now.
Cheers and keep it coming!!!
Thanks a lot Ricardo. Yeah, I think, he was quite impressed with the installation.
I'm really tempted to get the new panels and also connect the house as per his recommendations. That will be a very exciting project.
I'm glad you got someone in to point out the deficiencies so you can be assured of safety. $500 a KW installed is hard to beat. I say do it Andy, there's still plenty of DIY you can do. How about a voltage sensor that will disconnect the system if a solar controller fails? Or maybe install a large choke? We do this on ships because of lightning. I bet your audience would love to see some automation and alarm integration. We've already watched you put in solar panels.
Thank you. Yeah, we have done quite some work on the roof and the new panels are very tempting.
We will do some automation with the new battery 3.0 and a new smaller upgraded power wall. That will be interesting!
@@OffGridGarageAustralia nice. Can't wait Andy, keep up the good work!
Go for it Andy, "One small step for a electrician, one giant step for Andy", you will be over the moon about it....
You can mount the PV panels right up to the edges if you get a civil engineer to calculate worst case wind loadings and the shed roof strength.
However, this costs money and given that you have to replace a few panels it would be easier to just rearrange and comply with the default code.
It is often frustrating when an owner realises the sheer waste of roof space that is sometimes required for wind effects.
Flat (
There is an option where you can cover all the sites of the roof to the panels and basically make the panels the roof. I looked into this as well, but it would involve a builder and more $$$ towards that. So not worth it in my eyes.
If I install the new panels, they will be fully compliant, new, warranty and have more power than the existing ones. Cost $$$ too, but I have to spend it either way and I find having brand new panels for half the price is currently the best solution.
Hi. Regarding grounding I do not know AU Regulations, but in EU you can (and should) connect grounding with lighting protection installations, but the clue is - the connection has to happen underground! So you would need 2 poles from the same underground structure, one for lightning protection (pv grounding), and another one as Protective lead for AC systems and for SPD. Connecting them over ground is wrong, as when a lightning strikes, over the entire wire until it reaches ground you will have voltage drop due to resistance and huuuge current flowing. When the connection point is over ground it creates a voltage divider on the entire voltage drop, causing possibly higher potential as the ground potential on protective bolt in the sockets, all metal which is grounded through it etc and can be dangerous. When the connection happens underground, it does not create voltage divider and ensures potentials are equalised. We also have a requirement that the earth impedance be below 10 Ohm, you will have to check how it is in AU.
Regarding the 2 strings to replace, you can of course replace them by 3 strings of 2 modules as long as they physically fit, but you for sure considered it already... Also you are not forced to mount the modules vertically, horizontal setup will also work (landscape vs portrait mode). You may also experiment with mixed setup, to fit as much as possible within limited space... As long as they stay under the same angle, this should have no influence on the production at all.
I'm so happy for you it worked out so well.
the panel distance is for gutter clearances and fire saftey to help clear leaves and debris
also wind loading on the roof gusts raising and lowering the roof area (wind getting under and pushing down on the roof as a whole)
Heya, I didn't have a doubt that the check from the electrician would be very bad or bad at all oke you have to change 2 or 3 things but that is all doable. hope you will do this soon greating from Holland
I got the same Hyundai panels, 6 of them. Still have to install them.
I'm testing them at the moment...
When building an “off-grid” solar installation (besides insurance items), the owner is king of his castle. When (hybrid) connected to the grid one must meet off course the regulations. However “off-grid” is private and only the owner is the boss. Grounding solar-panels/roof construction is a questionable…all solar panels are dubbel isolated and grounding the construction on the roof increase the risk of lighting strike. Also it can be argued the grounding could be a risk regarding safety. Great channel Andy!!
Beste groet, Peter
Hi Peter. unfortunately many people do think that way and could do whatever they want on their property.
This is not the case though and the same regulations, rules and standards apply for off-grid as grid connected installations. Hence I want to get some installations, which are not DIY any more, installed professionally.
Hi Andy, thanks for your reaction. May I say “we agree to disagree”. My property is private and not public, so rules and regulations are strictly drawn up by the master (yours truly). My off-grid is not a hazard for the community, perhaps only to me? Further I am an electrician with a mind of my own. But further a harmless guy…. Keep up your splendid channel!! BR Peter
Great Job! Only minor changes is HUGE!!!
Yeah, I'm glad is is nothing major.
Spot on Andy with the grounding! There should only be one point of contact so that there is NO difference in potential with the current. Now, the difference happens when you use an off grid system that is a stand alone (Generator) type of takeover. This is the point at which you loose and have to create a bond because you loose your Neutral bonding. This is the most common and confusing issue with any solar/backup generator setup for any installation... Great Video as always!
I assume that the shed/roof/PV rails are on a single earth not connected to any main house grid power inlet earth.
Thanks Dan, there are so many regulations and it is not easy to understand all this. The sparky will take care of that and get it right. I'll make an update video when this is all done.
What if I had a 48v battery with victron inverter on a sack trolley with everything mounted on it. Would that unit need earthing?
There's sack trolley builds on CZcams.
Go for it Andy ! Go can work some other magic with older panels after !
I have already some plans for the old panels 😉
🥳👏👏👏 congrats 🍻 Dread to think what they would say about my set up 🤭🤭
Mine is a 24V system with just 2 panels and 2 batteries connected to a 3Kw all in one. We are low users in this house tho. I've just got another 12V delivered today, then I'll get another 1 next month, then we'll have 200ah of 24v lifepo4 batteries 🥳
See you next time Andy 👍
Great setup. Makes sense to stay low.
Awesome info & education for us " newbies ". Thanks for sharing with us, sir!
Another great video & summary of ur thoughts on possible future upgrades Andy. One consideration I am sure u are aware of, is that the solar rebate is being scaled back 10% annually, so the savings through REC’s rebates etc is better done sooner than later. Thanks for all ur great info, always learning new stuff. Cheers
Take the money!
Andy think on your future! It comes time you need more Power and for the half price... Do it! We have JaSolar Half Cut 415W Panels they also good but Schindel Panels the future
Testing the shingled panels right now in the driveway... video is coming...
The aerl Earth Guard (764 AUD )also has an auxiliary alarm relay output for external fault indication, along with its onboard audio/visual alarms. That could be used to disconnect the solar. Victrons’ battery protect can also be used to stop over voltage from SCC getting into your DC system and battery. Some BMS’es can handle it. Victron recommends earthing only the battery negative; panels never earthed on their wires. Obviously the frames are already earthed. So your system would all be ‘floating’. America has more stringent Ground Fault regulations, expensive devices, and mandatory outside disconnect, at ground level, that disconnects on the roof; that’s for the Fire Service to use, in event of a fire in panels on the roof. Some info on that on the diy solar forum.
As far as the NoArc SPD’s are concerned, current best practice is to have the isolator switch first, with the output going via the SPD
Thanks, Michael.
The sparky didn't mention any need for an SPD so far. I will ask him again next time.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia you said you have not connected them yet, but you have them installed in an MCB box.
Mach es! Kauf die Module 🤩!
Es gibt übrigens noch einen Laderegler von Victron mit 450V 😉 ist sehr komfortabel und erspart die ollen Stringboxen.
Longer strings don't make sense when you have shading. Parallel is far better ins such a situation.
🤔 Feels like the teacher is asking for confirmation from the student and then also allows himself to be bribed 😉
Always enjoy it. Learning something new again. I'm afraid to have mine inspected
Most DIY stuff is not DIY stuff and needs proper installation. As I have reached that size of my system, it was time to get this all sorted.
Well done Andy.Great video and thank you for sharing. Best wishes Jason from Melbourne Victoria.
Thanks 👍
New panels would definitely be worth it IMO!!
Especially the shingled panels seems to be better in these shading conditions.
Over here in Cape Town, South Africa I am a 3 phase electrician. I also build my own solar power systems.
alot of calibrations i’ll
volunteer to help💪🏻
Hehehe, I believe you would 😁
Some tips from a solar company. I am not sure why you make your solar panels so high on the roof and have thema all gapped. 1. Some room between the roof is ok for ventilation but it doenst have to be so much (2-3cm on top of ridges is enough) this way you can install them closer to the edge. 2. You will get nice air drift if you just mount the panels without gaps on the side. gaps disturb the air flow and do NOT make your panels cooler in my climate at least. 3. Shingle panels are a good fit for your place by quick video judgement. The voltage differences in partial shades is much less. Shame its so expensive to replace a largely working set of panels.
Lastly, i dont know your weather conditions, storms, etc. Just the 10 degree mounting on the less tilted roof is not really neccesary. It will hardly yield extra energy considering the ring of trees around your place, but does make it more liable for storms and increase mounting costs. You can do it but its not that important.
Thank you for your comment.
The gap between the panels and roof was designed for cleaning purposes. As the roof is fairly flat, leaf will accumulate in a small gap easily. The was also the purpose of the gaps in between the panels.
And as some of the panels start cracking now and I cannot replace them worth other used ones any more, It is good to have some alternatives.
The 10° tilt of the panels is so water can run off easily and does not stain the panels. Flat panels are getting dirty very quickly.
I have been occasionally observing your vids, for a while, & you've done a brilliant job, with the system. It was definitely a worthwhile exercise, getting in an electrician, for compliancy purposes.
As a practising plumber, in New Zealand, for over 40 years, the amount of trade installed systems, that aren't compliant (especially, in the area of hot water cylinders) is ridiculous. I would imagine Australia would not be too dissimilar. So, it doesn't surprise me, the electrician was somewhat impressed, even if he didn't say so, given what I have seen, of your system.
The question I do have is, now you do know your system isn't compliant, what would have happened, if the worst case scenario occurred, & your garage burnt down, even if totally unrelated, to your solar system. Would insurance have been paid out?
You are doing a great job. So, keep up the top efforts, with both the build, & the videos. Thanks, your channel makes CZcams a better place.
Thanks a lot for your comment and sharing your experience. I think so too that we have a similar situation here in Australia in regards to plumbing and electrical installation. I mean, you can buy almost all electrical gear online these days but are technically not allowed to install any of that. Hence I felt it is time to get this all sorted and checked. More to come...
The insurance will not pay for any DIY work if it is not compliant. And even if all work is compliant, it would be hard to proof in such a case. So better to get this all installed now...
Congrats on no-drama! :)
In the summertime, I turn down the amperage that goes into my charge controller, found I didn’t need that much amperage to fill the batteries in that time of year!
I would think this would help alleviate any overage that could occur!
You can do this in the software on the VictronConnect
Totally can see your German-ness when it comes to the excitement and worry of being conform to regulation, Andy. 😂 Danke für deine Videos und LG nach Australien.
Andy, always loved your DIY projects. We started buying 280ah batteries the same time and I felt we were on the same level. But seeing you thinking about buying new solar panels installed by pros is not DIY. I’d much rather see you struggle rounding up used panels just as I did. It probably make sense financially but where is the fun in that? I’ll always continue to watch your video’s and buy you Beer but I love the DIY. Matt
Thanks a lot for all your support, Matt. DIY has a limit and I feel I have reached this now where I'm uncertain about certain safety related installs like grounding , SPDs,... and also won't be able replace my switchboard for example when we are going to connect the house. This all is not DIY any more.
Before I even watch this your setup is awesome and love all the blue colors. you rock. My hands are tired as I made cables all day for my setup. should be up and running in 1-2 weeks. Can only do couple hours a day.
Great to hear. The lack of time is my biggest constraint as well. Everything seems to take forever.
I'm sure that the ground fault alarm could be made to switch off the offending MPPT and I like the idea very much so, once again thanks to you, I shall search for a similar item here in the Uk and install it myself. Thanks for the tip 🙏
Thanks Andy for another informative video.
Thanks Keith!
Wow the Austrailian rules are crazy !
Yes, they are totally nuts!
there can be potential differences in septerate grounds something to be aware of
i have an instrument that measures the Earthing in an area so if you have 1 or 2, does not matter.
Excellent JOB.. YOU are the Electricician ;-)
Good morning brother from Philippines 🇵🇭
Hello 👋
Well done..impressed
Thank you!
I like the idea of the Hyundai panels and the credit subsidy. I know it's not great for the DIY aspect, but I don't think it takes away from your current work. It also doesn't stop you expanding your battery and playing with the fence line solar.
The installation of the solar will only effect the roof area and nothing of my other DIY work. As some of the old panels are now cracked and I cannot replace them any more with likewise panels, a new solution need to be found anyway. And, We have spent a lot of time on the roof already, so I think everyone has got a good understanding of how it works now. Also, Andy2 is not always available for helping me 😁
@@OffGridGarageAustralia sounds good and sounds like you're heading that direction
Very good discussion on the outcome of your inspection. There are three items of interest to me. Firstly, if you use more than one earthing point, keep in mind the potential between them could get into the thousands of volts under a lightning strike event. Secondly, the appropriate labelling of the system is something I am lacking as well and need to fix. Thirdly I wonder why you allowed any part of your system to go over 120volts.
It all depends how your design of solar installation is. If you have no shading, it makes a lot of sense to have higher DC voltage to safe on cabling effort. With all my shading, multiple parallel strings seems to be the way to go.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia hi Andy, of cause you are correct from a cabling point of view, but by going over 120v, you change your dc side from a extra low voltage system to a low voltage system, and then wiring rules kick in.
OK - eine saubere Erdung/Potentialausgleich funktioniert so, dass es diagonal von dem zu schützenden Objekt jeweils einen Erder gibt und die beiden Erder rundrum mit einen 40x4 (oder ähnlicher Querschnitt) verzinkten Bandeisen verbuddelt im Ring verbunden sind.
Ein elektrischer Betriebsraum, was deine Garage wohl ist, gehört dann auch ein innerer Ring, ebenfalls 40x4 verzinkt, rundherum installiert - meist wird sowas ca. 30cm über dem Boden installiert, und an Toren halt drüber. Dieser Potentialausgleich - Ring wird an die dann wohl vorhandenen externen Erder angeschlossen.
Alle zu erdenden Geräte im Sinne des Potentialausgleichs werden dann an den inneren Ring angeschlossen.
Ggf. reicht es beim inneren Ring nur ein Teilstück zu installieren und die beiden Enden aber auf jeden Fall an die beiden externen (diagonalen) Erder anzuschließen.
=> ist ne Super Kurzfassung aus dem DEHN Blitzplaner - habe das >35 Jahre lang immer wieder zu beurteilen gehabt.
LG jogi
Andy you might want to check out the victron 450/100 or 450/200
Won't be great in my system due to the shading.
It's per design to have many parallel strings.
Did the electrician say or know why there needs to be this clearance all around on the edges? I mean what purpuse does it serve from a safety point of view? Seems like a very weird rule to me.
Here in Germany we also still have some weird regulations, e.g. 1.25 m clearance to a "protective fire wall", meaning there would be 2.5m lost of best usable roof space for a semi-detached house. And this is only for the glas-foil modules. If it were glas-glas modules it would be only 0.5m, 1m respectivly. Which is still weird in my opinion, but hey..
In my opinion the last thing to catch on fire in any event will be the pv-panels themselves
It has to do with wind load on the panels. It's one of the regulations when installing solar.
Andy, conratulation to your inspection results. Until 2028 will this channel probably be called "Andy's Solar production farm".
Yeah, there will be more solar coming. I still have some unused roof space on the house.
Hi Andy. I have a newish 250 v Victron mppt s😅lar controller which I don’t need. I am going to smaller controllers. Great that you will have plenty of power for the Tesla. André in Sydney
I cannot use the 250V MPPTs because of the shading. I will keep several strings in parallel to have better performance. It is more cabling effort but the output is higher as well.
Good job!
Thanks for sharing this info. Looks like there will be some changes coming to the OGG. Whatever happens it'll be fun to follow along.
Just minor changes with the system and maybe new solar.
Andy, if you want to wire 2S configuration it is better to go up with the panel voltage, so maybe use 550+Wp models. The width of your roof is around 3m, so you can easily install 2,3m panels in one row.
2S configuration = a lot of wiring. Victron has also 250V version of mppt or even 450V version. But I understand, you would like to use everything what you already have in the garage.
With 2 panels on top of each other, I have the best efficiency with the shading. If I put them sideways, the efficiency is worse. One panel could be shaded, while the other on is in the sun. The voltage would not be enough any more.
Same for the 250V MPPTs or even the RS MPPTS from Victron. If panels are in the shade, it would run hard on these diodes all the time. So far the parallel low voltage strings are the best approach for this situation. But, yes, there is more cabling effort.
Bien c'était une belle expérience avec cette électricien... je ne mets pas en doute ces capacités technique hormis la réglementation et la certification, toutefois par mon expérience et ce que j'ai pu voir depuis la création de ta chaîne ANDY, tu essaie de rester dans la conformité et ce n'est pas le cas pour beaucoup d'installation..., j'apprécie l'idée de l'alarm du system de défaut de terre.
Note to future Andy... You will not have enough solar energy during the coming winter solstice sun, you will most likely find yourself installing more panels elsewhere....
Also, I'm having trouble with understanding the purpose of the ground fault black box...
Having something beep and blink an led seems kinda pointless considering how much that thing costs....
If it could shut down the system... Then that's different... I would think that if high voltage DC got passed the charge controllers, the batteries BMS would disconnect from over voltage... I don't know how the inverter would behave in an over voltage situation...
My xing Ping inverter love's to complain when the voltage is too low and even shut down it's output until someone came to restart it again... I have not read the manual to see if it has over voltage protection also built in... If it has, then what's the point of this expensive little box?
If high voltage got passed the charge controllers, then they would have to be fried chicken and reporting information to my tablet inside my house would stop and possibly everything else and I would know that there's a problem... An emergency hard shutdown will follow and the multimeter and thermal camera comes out....
If this happened to you! What would you do? How would you handle this situation? Would you get bitten by a live earth? Or would you do exactly what I have said earlier?
Call it a war game and be honest with yourself a run through a scenario... Will you fail your own test or will you pass?
So, I'm a European viewer and I brought up the different "non-essential" feed for hot water etc as an interesting idea that I haven't ran into before, and said that looks like people in Australia have got some cool out of the box ideas like that. My friend said he looked all over the Internet and couldn't find anything about that so it must not exist. Care to elaborate a bit? How common is this type in Australia, etc. Seems like a pretty genius idea to me. Here if we run into simply not having enough electricity to go around, it's rolling blackouts time rather than being able to first turn off those loads instead.
We have different tariffs here in AU to choose from depending on your power company and provider. For example, mine provides me with the following choices:
Tariff 11: 24/7 (normal tariff, most expensive
Tariff 33: min 18h/day (they can turn off that circuit during peak times or at any point of the day to control energy demand in the grid)
Tariff 31: min 8h/day (a lot cheaper per kWh but it is mostly active during the night and mid day when power is excessively available)
More info here for example: www.ergon.com.au/retail/residential/tariffs-and-prices/economy-tariffs#:~:text=Tariff%2033,of%2018%20hours%20each%20day.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia Thank you for the reply. A very interesting approach because it requires additional infrastructure to turn these off, or do they cut it right at the house?
As a side note, been binging your channel a little bit ever since I put in an order for 100 kWh worth of CATL 280Ahs :) looking forward to building something with that.
@@eowendyl There is a relay in the meter box which they can control through frequency signals. It creates a new circuit from one of the phases which they are able to control. I think it's quite a clever way to avoid blackout at these hot summer evenings when all A/Cs are running but hot water and pool pumps are not really essential and can be turned off.
I also charge my EV from that tariff during winter time when solar is not sufficient.
Interesting
Hi Andy
Love the video this has opened big can off worms about EARTHING and sorry to say you are wrong and most off the people that think the same. Lets look at the house EARTH it is at 240V POTENTIAL and is calculated for a breaking current off how many power points lights and other utility's you have so for example average house minimum is at 80A in at 240V (here in Australia). Now on that it is calculated size for the EARTH and as per AS3000 ruling for that you need 16mm cables to the house for supply now the minimum EARTH cable is 6mm to safely handle the breakdown current as you use more current over 80A so does the breakdown current goes up hence bigger EARTH is needed and also cables to the house.
Now as for battery's you have POTENTIAL in your case for example is 55-60VDC but current as you have 3 banks each with 200A fuses you have now 600A. To brake that current now you need bigger EARTH which will be now maybe 2 or 3 EARTH stakes in line and probably use 50mm EARTH cable to protect the system. Also your rack and plates on the wall will have to be EARTHED with same cable, what comes out off your inverter is different you protect it via 240V EARTH but battery's need separate protection to handle this big CURRENT and as you can see the house EARTH stake is not enough for that system also your EARTHS will need to be labeled accordingly. I hope this will answer some questions on different EARTHING on different SYSTEMS.
The electrician is currently looking into this. It seems the grounding is sufficient. Each battery bank has a 200A BMS, that is correct but the main breaker/isolator for each bank is only 100A, set to 80A.
The house has its won earth stake so is separate from the garage.
👍👍👍👍
Do it. That much solar would be awesome.
Next week, my friend!
Hi Andy. Can wait for the test of the Hyundai PERC Shingled panel. I just did receive 20 of them.
Testing them right now...
So, in AU they don´t use solar panels mounted on a steel structure to cover parking lots? Or do they have to use a roof beneath the solar panels? What a great work you have done, also a bit scary due to the power involved. Your video on connecting the inverters is very enlightening. Thanks for sharing!
Andy , add a small carport at the front and space the panels . It would be cheaper .
That needs council approval and a builder to set it up. Not sure if that will be cheaper. Probably more effective but I have lots of roof area left on the house to connect more solar...
Regards the earthing, I was under the same impression as Andy,ie earth to the same point as the building, but if you get a dc fault on the roof that dc voltage will be present on the earth cable and thus make your earthed appliances and metal work live with the DC voltage, not good, so a separate earth point would be the answer, what did the electrician say about the earth bonding?
No, that's not true if a proper Earth ground rod or two is installed. All metal parts should have 0 potential to Earth, always.
Earth bonding does what it says on the tin. It bonds the equipment or structure to ground so that the bonded equipment cannot become “live”.
No, all of the bonded grounding system (Earth ground) would be at the same ground potential. An issue arises if two separate ground points are used as there can be a difference between the two grounds that will result in a voltage potential.
Put two copper rods in the ground 40' apart and you're likely to read a voltage between them.
He's looking into it.
@@Stephen2846 hi, yes I agree/understand about having different potential between the two earth points, but we are not talking about a mains fault to ground but a DC fault to ground, I can understand why they need the dc/ground fault alarm is needed, It’s an interesting situation having mains and DC in the same installation, I can see why “Normal” electricians wouldn’t look at an off grid installation.
I don't know about your specific certificate program requirements, but sometimes it is possible to do part of the installation yourself and then the professional electrician inspects your work and finishes the install and thus the entire system qualifies for the program. For example, you might be classed as an assistant or an apprentice being supervised by the professional. This can save money will still qualifying for all the financial benefits available.
Arc fault detection on the PV side of charge controllers could be a good idea and good clean fun. SPDs not connected yet? (connect to the ground of the solar charge controllers that the SPDs are protecting, they just prevent the PV inputs from going too high voltage.)
I'm not sure if arc fault detection is necessary but I will ask the sparky when he comes back next time.
I know how the SPDs are being installed and connected. The problem is that the earth cable needs to be as short as possible. And mine cannot be that short...
Screw the regulations, this is offgrig. You can do whatever
Yeah, kinda but its more complicated when you consider insurance and life safety. The panel spacing from the edges has to do with a few factors including wind loading effects, space for fire fighting personal in a structure fire and the resulting obligations with insurance. If a system is nonconform and even an unrelated disaster happens, insurance could deny a claim if they have blanket conformity clauses or the total loss is caused by a hazard situation that fire personnel was unable to safely fight a fire for example.
No, you cannot just do what you want. It's the same regulations you have to follow.
He will love my battery bank connected up to my inverter with car jump leads. 🙈⚡🔥🤪
I think do the professional Way, so you have the electricity for cheap and you can continue the test on the side
I think you should top most of your trees...
Check out the Adani 630W bifacials, they are absolutely bonkers.
#STOPADANI
@@OffGridGarageAustralia why?
@@tanishqbhaiji103 Adani is a bad bad company which wants to open huge coal mines here in Australia, destroying precious landscape forever and contributing to further global warming. Against all protests over the last years, they bribe the government to get all the approvals for usage of land and water while landowners don't have a say and get disseized. Not to speak of the traditional owners of this country and their rights.
So, there is a huge movement against Adani. The solar and panel production is just a greenwash of their dirty business elsewhere.
Have a look on Twitter under #stopadani or google it.
@@OffGridGarageAustralia I am in India and they are the best Indian manufacturer and finding a good dealer for anything else is a huge hassle l, so I just have to buy adani. Every company here is equally bad.