How NOT to insulate a camper van conversion
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- čas přidán 24. 08. 2024
- how Not to insulate the inside of a camper van using Recycled plastic insulation. Mercedes Vario camper van conversion
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I love the way you don't cut corners, you'd only regret it if you did when you're on your travels. Great series.
Thank you ☺️
Oh, made my previous comment before I saw your demonstration! 😂 Exactly, what a bloody nightmare!! Lol. There's several snapped drill bits stuck in my van walls 😂🤦♀
Haha yeah I can relate 👍🤓👍
I would defo have put in some sound deadening sheets just to stop any panel resonance.
I stuffed the recycled bottle in my ribs prior to installing
It’s a bit fiddly but,I managed to stuff the ribs full using a rod / bar , by ripping it into small pieces.
If my drill got stuck,I slowly reversed it until it let go,
The screws I didn’t worry about ,as they added extra grip ,(only a problem if I need to take walls off ect ).
I only used recycled bottles in the ribs for the same reason as you mentioned.
Loving your build
I bet that made your breathing a bit hard!? (Your first line of the comment made me chuckle 😂)
Great videos guys very relaxing on a Weekend morning,over the years these videos have given us confidence to take on our T4 project replicating some of your old projects.
Ignore the Naysayers .
Thank you that’s very kind of you to say 👍🤓👍
You could just reverse the drill Mel! It does work. Ive used a mix of Celotex and recycled plastic bottle
Cool vid guys. Always great seeing your faces on a Sunday morning. Enjoying seeing the van progress!
Hi ya thank you 🙏 hope to see you out on the road one day xx
Mel take a strip of reflexics (the bubble stuff you don't like.) Just tape strips up over steel posts and screw your wall panels over it, just don't crank your screws super tight. The screws will stay tight no problems. you could cut your insulation full size split on one side and break panel so it fits in under edges of posts and flatten panel back out to fit tight seal split with tape.
Bless you
I reckon give the expanding foam a miss Mel. Some dafty crashed into the side of my van a few moths ago, and it needed 2 panels and the sill pulled out. Would have been a nightmare welding with foam in there... Maybe cut some strips of that recycled bottle matting and stuff them in the strut so you could fish them out later if need be? You could still self-tapper into the struts to hang shelves, etc and if you wanted to remove them in the future you could buzz the screw heads off with a Dremel \ multi-tool if the screws were binding to the matting.
Thank you for taking the time to answer really appreciate it 👍
Based on my experience (I don't claim to be an expert) of insulating my conversion, I also wanted to use the board (kingspan in my case) as much as possible. I endeavoured to stick it to the panels of the van where possible with double sided tape, but ribs and curves get in the way, resulting in the kingspan leaving gaps behind it between the board and the panel. I recently added another skylight and the ceiling panel i removed had evidence of moisture having formed on the body panel (despite being fastidious with the vapour barrier). I have now applied the self adhesive dodo mat directly to the panel, leaving no gaps, behind the kingspan, before reapplying vapour barrier. Added insulation and no air pockets. Not saying this is right or recommended, merely sharing my findings on my own van. I am now working my way round the van repeating this process.
Hilarious, really enjoyed watching this video. You must have been laughing your *** off editing the bit with the sneezing. I was, just watching it. as for the Diesel cooking hob. it is so practical and is definitely worth the money. Looking forward to the next video. I have been looking for a Vario van since after watching the start of this series.
Great to see some progress on the interior! All the prep work and anti rust treatment is going to pay dividends in the years to come! :)
Could have just spray foamed the edges of the celotex which would help fasten it. Need to be careful with that stuff as it can end up sounding like a family of mice partying in the back when you are driving. You could cavity wax inside the uprites and then spray foam them. It's also a good idea to wax all the ribs and joint that will be covered once panelled in. People go mad over vapour barriers but this also creates a trap for condensation between the internal and external panels. Basically it will rot either way. Will probably use celotex on my next build for the reasons you have pointed out. Vans looking good. Fums up👍
Although I get your point about the recycled plastic not being great for when drilling into, but its probably the best solution when your trying to fill those voids between skins which most vans have, fortunately for you the van you have doesnt have many of these small areas.
Sprayfoam insulation and yes fill those bits with foam if you do trap moisture it’s sealed from the air so shouldn’t oxadise
I love the recycled bottle insulation as it was cheap and doesn't hold onto water but yeah as soon as you got out the drill I had flashbacks 🤣
I've had similar when drilling through stretch carpet lined panels. Melts onto the drill bit.😬
Video suggestion if it bothers you: Diesel fuel used to boil 1L of water vs gas used to boil 1L of water. You could use one of those portable camp stoves with the cp250 can to make weighing the gas can before/after easier!
Oh that’s a great idea thank you 🙏
@@BigVanSmallWorldmy guess is that Autogas is cheaper than Diesel but any of the bottles are significantly more expensive, let us know what you find out.
It also depends on the efficiency of the stoves as well. Ignite gas and directly heat bottom of pot, start diesel burner and preheat cooktop before heating bottom of pot; boiling water for coffee would be a quicker process with a gas stove.
The energy value of 1 litre of LPG is approximately 0.72 kg of LPG, which has an energy content of 11,400 Kcal/Kg. In comparison, 1 litre of diesel has an energy content of 10,600 Kcal/Kg.
Accounting for the higher efficiency of LPG burners at around 95% (in general) compared to diesel burners at around 85%, 1 kg of LPG can provide 10,260 Kcal of usable energy, while 1 kg of diesel can provide 9,010 Kcal of usable energy.
In other words, 1 kg of LPG is equivalent to about 1.14 kg of diesel, or about 1.39 litres of diesel. Conversely, 1 litre of diesel is equivalent to about 0.72 kg of LPG.
I think it boils down to what one wants (pun intended) My van came with gas fitted and I like it, but' if I was to fit a van out myself, I may not go down that route.
My mind is not made up yet, Azurren.
Hilarious Mel. What a great way to start a Sunday morning even though it went a bit Carry On Campervan at the end with all the saucy innuendo 😂
Glad you enjoyed it 👍🤓👍
That recycled plastic stuff is horrendous and can be pretty expensive really, as you can keep pushing it into gaps forever! But it getting wrapped round my drill, drove me insane 😖😄
I’m glad it’s not just me then lol 😂
If you use spray foam anywhere in the van make sire its closed cell insulation which is more expensive than the normal stuff (open cell) you get at the builders merchant.
For the exposed metal ribs, cover them in 10mm closed cell sticky backed with foiled outer foam... same as dodo mat but much cheaper options are available.
Simply cut the cellotex panel in the middle, push them apart to fill the ribs then fill the middle section with another piece of cellotex, tape over with aluminium foil. Never had a problem with recycled plastic insulation, obviously if you drill into it there's going to be issues but why would you drill into it. Apply basic skills, don't over think stuff.
Beat me to that comment lol 😂
its the screws that are the problem. you end up with insulation balls behind the panel and leaving gaps. sheeps wool is the best insulation as it absorbs and releases moisture over weather cycles. there is off gas problems with foam and foam board but reduces over time. but most of us have entered a stinking hot campervan over the summer with a wiff. your sleeping in a confined space breathing it in. which some are ok with. recycled plastic has no decent thermal properties like cheap crappy ski coats, where as goose down is toastie. End of the day your in a tin can with lots of glass and breathing and sweating a lot of vapour. for floors you may as well double up on ply as add stupid deadening matt. theres so many ways to skin a cat here
could always try taping the holes at the bottom then filling from the top using a funnel and the little polystyrene balls they use to fill bean bags then maybe just a tiny squirt of the expanding foam just at the top to act as a plug ,bearing in mind in some cases ive heard the expanding foam can distort the outer skin and a while ago you mentioned cork was a good insulating material could you use that as a way of keeping the insulation thin where you want the extra space for your bed
I think its a near impossible task to 100% vapour barrier a van. Condensation will make its way to the steel some how. a little ventilation behind insulation will help in long run( rust, mold, etc).. Insulate as best as you can with insulation boards. As you said the expanding foam will trap moisture. Dodo mats are good at damping the tin rattle noise from steel panels as you drive. but it only needs a piece on each panel, not 100% coverage.
Hi Mel, I work with Celotex on a daily basis when we get similar challenges we get sectional arias we cut to the section size including recesses then cut a square section out of the centre put centre to one side, then go to the frame section you created then cut it into 4 place the 4 sections into work space and then fill in the centre piece with the original centre using insulation gapfill… ps then close up with your foil 😉
PS brilliant video Mel👍
That's a great idea!
Nice I’ll remember that when I’m doing mine.
No ‘H’ in insulation….
Thanks for the informative video! Keep up the great work! 👍
Reflective foil bubble wrap can be useful as a vapour barrier, although as you said it's thermal properties aren't great and it's expensive. Loving watching this build though Mel, First Vario one I've seen 👍
Another good one Mel! And I totally agree with the insulation, plenty
Thank you ☺️
Expanding foam is used in narrow boats which are made from steel and I have never heard of rust forming as a result of this product 😊
Not the regular rattle can type though. It’s proper 2 part foam that’s used in boats. Alex Hibbert had done a very good video on it with his lifeboat build. They are two different types of foam…
@@fergusmoloney I am talking about small usage IE gaps etc not the entire boat you should check out CZcamsrs who repair or refit there boats
Hi Mel, it's Pete with the roof tent etc. (Ex "the barn")
Thanks for this video, as I have used this in my build.
Imagine drilling and then your carefully layered and flat insulation suddenly gets whipped into a cone under the panel? What if you have carpet lining.
Not going to look great!
Luckily I don't need to drill anything anymore but will need to remember if I change anything in future.
Good luck with your build and see you at the festivals.
(HI Becky too!)
Hey! 😊
@SACREDTRAVELLER Hiya! We didn't actually meet as I was only there for a week.
Work stops play as they say.
Hope you are both well.
No, you should not fill them with expandable phone I did that and we’ve been a year to remove it because the drainage moisture from the roof runs down
Good night Mel and wife I love watching your videos of you building your CAMPERVAN I hope you have a great Easter weekend I hope you are all well and enjoying your building your new campervan please keep up the good work up on your videos on your you tube channel
Thank you! You too!
Hey Mel, Your insulation job looks spot on, personally I wouldn't use expanding foam in the cavity's. There's always going to be a bit of dampness on metal in the colder months, I recon a bit of air flow is whats best, and lots of wax oil. In your previous video I commented about the diesel cook top, it makes more scene now I thought you was replacing the induction completely... I've been looking at a few low wattage products for cooking, Have a look at the Dash Mini Rice cooker there lots of reviews and recipes on CZcams, They claim to be 200watts, I don't have one yet to test... but some of the meals you can cook in them look delicious and very easy to do. The lowest power setting on my induction hob is 460watts So at less than half the power usage I'm hoping this will be useful for hot dinners in winter when the solar is not generating as much.
It's worth putting flashband (flashing tape) in the middle(-ish) of your panels to dampen drumming while you're driving - there's a lot of panel & the amount of noise is large.
This is one place where being untidy is good, if it's not perfectly centred & square it works better.
nice methodical tidy work, however i was just wondering?..... why no sound deadening on the panels?
Thank you don’t need sound deadening as the panels are so thick they don’t vibrate
Don't use expanding foam inside those beams. Stick thinsulate on top of them instead. Cheers!
the germans use pir board so a good move in my opinion. you have good skills and knowledge
It's going be cosy in there. Tell becky she can buff if she wants to lol if they touch the varnish lol
lol 😂
put lots of small pieces of recylced plastic bottle insulation behind those beams. That way if you do need to drill or screw into them then you won't grab and spin all of it around a screw or drill bit. cotton ball sized pieces will probably work well. The wool will allow any vapour to evaporate as and when it gets a chance.
It was funny watching you film Rebecca filming you 😂
Her face when she realised you were still filming was funny
Another great one Mel, I was even sneezing in sympathy with you! As for insulation I think you are kinda right... Kingspan /Celotex is a really good choice of material to go with for all the reasons you mentioned. I put 25mm on my floor and a mix of 25mm and 50mm in the walls. I also have used a lot of recycled plastic bottle insulation in all the awkward and hard to reach cavities. You are 100% right about drill bits and screws. I'm still green with envy re the Vario, it's such an amazing vehicle! Keep on keeping Mel 👍
Thank you for the support really appreciate it 👍🤓👍
Fill the gaps with Rockwood
Hi Mel have you considered using an American product that is available over here called Lizard skin spray on insulation, it is used on camper vans in the USA. There is also a spray on product for sound proofing, both can be seen on You tube ,Titled Lizard Skin Sound Control and Ceramic Insulation
We had expanding foam in the cavities of our van when we brought it and we had puddles at the bottom of the cavities and it had started to rust, it was a nightmare to try and get most of it out, it really dose trap moisture
Thank you for sharing this with us 👍
Beautiful. Well done guys 👍👍
Thank you very much!
Great vlog Mel looking good 👍
Be safe
Hello great show but looking at CZcams be nothing left to treasure when finished campervan keep happy Steve
Oh there’s plenty of treasure out there if you know where to look 👍
Yes I agree lot of gold and precious metals have fun that's easy if you love it cheers steve
For the vapour barrier. Just buy heavy duty plastic dust sheets from wickes. Ridiculously cheap are perfect for the job.
Don't put expanding foam in. You are definitely better having an air gap in there with a vapor barrier between the inside and the outside surfaces
It's the slowness of cooking that would do my head in. Seems to take an age to me compared to gas
It’s all about timing and planning ahead to alow for the warm up period
It's sad that punters second guess you on every thing you do. As if someone with your experience didn't know exactly what he was doing! How many vans have you built? Anyway thanks for all the help with my build, I'm at the other end of the spectrum turning a Nissan NV200 into a weekend camper van. Tiny van but the concepts are the same.
Wow, you’re the first person to say this. It’s appreciated ❤x
Matt black VHT paint might work on that surround Mel :)
Your sneezing fit was hilarious 😂
I would inject Wax oil in first then the foam happy day's Gary
I had the same problem found out the hard way.
Just a thought… I wonder if there will be any squeaking with the Celotex rubbing on surfaces as you drive?? Just make sure you leave an air gap behind the Celotex board too. But as they say, a Vapor barrier is not used by the manufacturers and therefore probably not the best idea.
Where a mask when cutting insulation....dont forget to vacuum afterwards.😂
Great point!
Nice video.
I worry a bit about condensation building up in the gap behind the cellotex and ending up as rust in the bottom..
But maybe if you manage to keep it airtight??
Great point!
To be fair mate you could eliminate that insulation wrap around easy by using a “stop collar” on your drill bit ..or just put a bit of tape on to mark the thickness of what your piloting and go slow… different game for holesaws though.. 😂I can relate!ha
I’m envious of your almost slab sided walls compared to my sprinter!ha I really enjoyed insulating mine too tbf
Surprised you’ve not gone for some Armaflex or closed cell foam directly to the van walls first though personally, I’ve seen many vans you’ve filmed in the barn with it so interested to know why you chose not to use it yourself 👍🏼
Cheers
Push wool into the gaps. Natural product, doesn't sweat, dries out if any moisture gets in.
Only if the moister can get out easily, air circulation will dry wood out as long as the moisture can leave with the circulated air.
Cavities in houses are outside vented, vans don't have this luxury, nowhere for trapped moister to escape.
My van has been a camper for almost 31 years, no vapour barrier, no issues either; everything gets a proper chance to dry out regularly I guess.
I'm not 100% sold on an unbreathable system tbh Anthony.
Is it the ply or Rebecca your allergic too 😅
No to expanding foam. Yes to cavity wall insulation beads.
You can get a 2 part expanding foam that doesn’t absorb water. I don’t think the regular expanding foam is a good idea in a van as it’s hydroscopic. Surprised you haven’t added any butyl type adhesive sheets under the panels to help with sound deadening! I found even a few squares on each panel makes a huge difference. I like the idea of leaving an air gap and the 25mm PIR boards. Is there any fear of squeaking from not using pins to secure the boards?
The Vario panels are so thick that they don’t make the noise of the other panel vans so no need for sound deadening
My 609 has the same body as the Vario and the panels definitely drum. Maybe not as bad as modern tin can vans but still enough to benefit from added mass. I’d recommend at least considering it for the doors. Still, your van so do it your way Mel. 👍🏻
@@fergusmoloneyit's not the absolute weight it's the uneven distribution of weight that quenches the ringing.
🙏❤️👍
I stuffed the ribs on my Iveco Daily with tufts of Rockwool insulation....it took days but it vastly reduced the wowing and I suppose stopped heat escaping too . I did what you did on the walls , celotex as well on the floor and used rockwool for the roof . I also used 100 mm celotex with 9 mm ply front and back for my internal back wall to give me a decent floor to ceiling space for garage
I know someone who used rockwool on their roof, moister got to it somehow and it went soggy and dripped after two winters living in their van.
There was two adults, one child and two dogs living in that camper.
Moister can get up and inside through the light fittings, depending on how well things are sealed I guess.
Also, fitting a van out in a High moister environment, some moister will most likely be trapped from the get go.
Done our campervan with the board, put a piece into a bucket of water weighted down, it does not hold any water better job.
If the spray foam is covered with a vapour barrier, where does the moisture come from?
Hundreds of steel narrow boats are insulated with it and they don’t suffer from trapped moisture.
I don’t know 🤷♂️
Hey Mel sent you a pm on facebook just still keen to buy one of your stickers but didn't have NZ as an option. Cheers
Just put the drill in reverse never had a problem with it in my van in 6 years
If you get the timing wrong it just twists up the other way & regardless there's a patch of insulation that's now uneven.
Don't know if I've missed one of your vids Mel. But aren't you putting the old metal floor back down. And what is it that you're now putting down. Looks insulation type. But with a hard surface
It’s a wooden floor no metal
good vid nice build on the van keep up the good vids
Is that plastic insulation mould and fire resistant ? Expanding foam will work very well as insulation and sealant
Don’t panic. But I’ve just had a brain wave. I’ve left negative thoughts on your idea of no gas. As I love gas cookers. Yes I have a diesel heater in my motohome. Mine is a large hose 6 inches away from heater pointing into van. What are your thoughts on making a oven to connect to hose when needed. I’m thinking of a alloy box with top open lid. Hose going in underneath, so will need to be on legs .fireproof insulation around it to keep heat in. Not sure about holes to let out air out as heater may get too hot without the airflow.
Great idea if you want to dry your food and make your own snack pots 👍👍
Could you use polystyrene beads, and seal with sealer.
That's an interesting idea
Get some plasterbording foam fix for the gaps in the insulation as it doesn't expand as mutch as expanding foam
Thanks I’ll have a look into that 👍
@@BigVanSmallWorldthere's also foams that stop expanding as they leave the gun.
The WHO recommends sneezing into your elbow as the the projected fluids travel an alarming distance (& you really don't want to be clearing the mess off your freshly-laid floor). You're going to be washing your overalls anyway
You not got reverse on your drill mel? Easy fix with the bottle stuff.. each to their own and all that jazz 😊 celotex certainly is a lot cleaner once on.. unless you cover it in snot 😂
Zero downsides to recycled plastic quilt insulation, thats why professional campervan builders use in in conjunction with adhesive thermoliner and not PIR boards.
Its lightweight, flexible, easy to cut, no dust, easy to stick in place, doesn't rattle, can be pushed into cavities and simply works.
Over specced insulation for a van is a waste of time and money, as heating and ventilation are needed regardless of what is installed. The only place I would consider PIR board as advantageous is on a flat floor, if the standing height within the van is not compromised.
I've never broken a drill bit either!
If I was to do a build/fit out myself, I'd go that route...convenient, easy, and Good enough. I don't think I would vapor barrier anything either so everything can breath on great drying/airing out days. My almost 31 year Old van has no vapour barrier and came factory fitted that way.
Heat and decent ventilation is best I think in UK, and don't boil potatoes, carrots and broccoli for 40 minutes without a decent way to extract the steam; nor hang soaked cloths up to dry without Very good airflow/ventilation...I see many make these mistakes.
Just put the drill into reverse easy think you might have a problem putting kingspan into the ribs of a van.
Two types of expanding foam open which hold water and closed which doesn't I did some reading,,
According to Vanology builds you don’t require a vapour barrier in your camper or motorhome as the big major builders don’t use it and rely on good ventilation instead. I agree as a long time caravan owner and some time repairer you never see it in them, aluminium, grp or steel. Vapour barriers only cause build up of vapour in places and it stays wet
Exactly my thoughts 🤓👍
@@BigVanSmallWorld what I will add is summer heat and insulation to keep heat out is where more insulation would help but where to stop? What I’d do is take a leaf from caravan and motorhome builders and why most Tesla’s are white and that helps reduce heat transfer to the living space and reduce demand on air con systems etc so paint your van mostly white!
@@BigVanSmallWorld I think 12mm ply would be sufficient and save lots of weight and $$!
In the automotive world vapour barrier is used to separate ventilated spaces from each other & avoid cold mixing with warm.
Get some small pipe insolution tubeing and feed it in the hole.
Another great vlog Mel, just out of curiosity how come you've not sound dended your wall's of your Vivaro first before putting the celotex in place ?
Good question! The reason is simple it’s not necessary as the panels are corrugated to stop the drum affects that modern vans suffer with
Gas is on its way out and getting very pricey and in Europe you can get heating oil IE red diesel everywhere and really cheap and im sure you can use paraffin too 😁
Can you poke wool insulation or loft insulation with a coat hanger wire instead of spray foam?
You could use bean bag poly balls for insulation. Drill a bigger hole Inject cavity
Expanding foam/filler a big no! VW used this in the manufacturing process of the old beetles and they rotted from the inside out, particularly where the expanding foam had been. Also, our vw t4 had some manufacturer installed expanding foam filler and again, rotted on that too. So much so we had to get rid for a new camper project.
Thanks for taking the time to respond really appreciate it 🤓👍
Modern expanding foam, especially gap filling foam, is closed cell in nature when cured. This prevents moisture being absorbed.
Use the correct product, and get foam that’s applied from a gun, not the straw on a can type, and you won’t get the same overfilling issues either as the application is far more controlled..
Squirty foam is the same foam as Celotex both polyurethane.
No it’s not. Celotex is closed cell which doesn’t absorb water and the stuff in the can is open cell foam which can absorb water. There is 2 part spray foam which is closed cell but that’s more expensive and not as easily sourced.
Using foam mel ! DID U NOT LEARN FROM MARY 😁 hand to mouth sneezing 😂
Mel I wouldn’t use expanding foam as it has a honeycomb affect that could possibly hold moisture I would use something else hope this helps!!! I used it in my van and the metal ribs still felt cold and a lot of gaps.
Thank you 🙏
Noise density? Are you not using any of that mat that makes panel less Noisy?.
No need as the panels are not thin and flimsy like other vans
No sound deadening mel ???? Just curious, but really love this build
ZERO expanding foam in campervans a conversion company tested it over a 2 year period and found it warped the van panels
All that sawdust getting to you? 🤣🤣🤣
Problem with underlaying insulation???? Just use a depth-stop in thickness of wall material - problem solved.
Problem to fit Celotex behind the struts? Make the panel in to parts divided in the middle. Only one seam in the center, no fiddling with patches -problem solved.
Problem with insulating cavities? Never use expanding foam. Will cause major problems when later welding repairs may occur. Use something you can take out again in case.
Noise damping panels? At least use a good amount in the roof - otherwise you'll have no sleep during rain or hail ...
Don't forget to insulate the panels against the underlying metal struts avoiding themal bridges ...
def no to expanding foam, it will distort the external panels, and stickyvback foam as thick as you can, on the van frame between the PIR sheets
it will only distort the panels if there's no outlet for the expansion.
If you're having that problem you can get foam that stops expanding as it leaves the gun.
Not after the transit van build filler foam episode Mel 😂
No Mel don't use expanding foam it's basically a sponge and holds moisture and means rot and rust !!!
so don't use it anywhere near metal!
use something else.
Wow. The cheapest one (stove) was almost $4000 aud here in Australia 🇦🇺
wow that is expensive I’ll have to bring mine with me next time I come visit 😂👍
Have you looked on Aliexpress?