God Is Everywhere
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- / sciencereason ... Stephen Fry @ BigThink: God Is Everywhere.
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Question: What do you believe?
Stephen Fry: Its interesting. Atheism comes into rather a bad press and I suppose Id rather describe myself as a humanist, who human I dont believe in God. I dont believe there is a God. If I were to believe in a god l would believe in gods. I think monotheism is the really ghastly thing. That is the absolutely staggering to me misapprehension.
I can perfectly see why anybody might imagine that each thing, each thing that grows, each phenomenon that we that accompanies us on our journey through life, the sky, the mountains, spirits of nature. I can imagine why man would wish to endow them with an inner something, an inner animus that they would call the god of that thing.
I can see that. Its a beautiful and charming way of looking at it and I can understand the Greek idea that there are these you know these principles of lightening or of war or of wisdom and to embody them, to personify them into a Athena or Aries or whichever god you want makes enormous sense, but to say that there is one only god who made it all and who is Yeah, that is just What? Why? Who said? Where? Come on.
And I love how when people watch I dont know, David Attenborough or Discovery Planet type thing you know where you see the absolute phenomenal majesty and complexity and bewildering beauty of nature and you stare at it and then and somebody next to you goes, And how can you say there is no God? Look at that.
And then five minutes later youre looking at the lifecycle of a parasitic worm whose job is to bury itself in the eyeball of a little lamb and eat the eyeball from inside while the lamb dies in horrible agony and then you turn to them and say, Yeah, where is your God now?
You know I mean you got You cant just say there is a God because well, the world I beautiful. You have to account for bone cancer in children. You have to account for the fact that almost all animals in the wild live under stress with not enough to eat and will die violent and bloody deaths. There is not any way that you can just choose the nice bits and say that means there is a God and ignore the true fact of what nature is.
The wonder of nature must be taken in its totality and it is a wonderful thing. It is absolutely marvelous and the idea that an atheist or a humanist if you want to put it that way, doesnt marvel and wonder at reality, at the way things are, is nonsensical. The point is we wonder all the way. We dont just stop and say that which I cannot understand I will call God, which is what mankind has done historically.
Thats to say God was absolutely everything a thousand or two thousand years ago because we understood almost nothing about the natural world, so it could all be God and then as we understood more God receded and receded and receded, so suddenly now he is barely anywhere. He is just in those things we dont understand, which are important, but I think it just is such an insult to humanity and the Greeks got it right.
The Greeks understood perfectly that if there were divine beings they are capricious, unkind, malicious mostly, temperamental, envious and mostly deeply unpleasant because that you can say well yes, all right, if there is going to be god or gods then you have to admit that theyre very at the very least capricious. Theyre certainly not consistent. Theyre certainly not all loving. I mean really its just not good enough.
You know if we empower ourselves with responsibility over our actions, responsibility over our destinies and responsibility for directing and maintaining and creating our own ethical and moral frameworks, which is the most important thing really isnt it because perhaps the greatest insult to humanism is this idea that mankind needs a god in order to have a moral framework.
There is a very clear way of demonstrating logically how absurd that is because the warrant for that logical framework, for that moral framework that comes from God is always tested against mans own morals and its a complicated argument, but I mean thats you know its the standard one which is pretty unanswerable, but the idea that we dont know right from wrong, but we have to take it from words put down in a book two, three, four, five, six thousand years ago and dictated to rather hotheaded neurotic desert tribes is just insulting.
bigthink.com/
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God didn't create man. Man created god.
and that's why he's in man's image :)
Wanda Lee he edited man to be related to her
BFS300 chicken/egg. Redundant.
BFS300 your not smart enough to know the andwer
ok who created humans?
I think it's absurd we are still debating religion in 2013!
Apparently its not an easy thing to settle down. With so many religions available, new ones are popping up all the time. They're not doing that bad either...
WolfEyesatNight
Religion is a relic from humanity's psychological evolution back when we lived as tribes competing with other tribal groups. We good, they bad. This was helpful back then, tribalism allowed early humans to bond as groups to compete with enemies. Later, smart individuals thought up religions to create mythologies to explain things that weren't understood, control behaviors that they thought undesirable and create a set of shared values. Helpful then, but now simply a set of useful guidelines to consider, anecdotal stories from the past that should never override rational, compassionate thought.
Christianity is simply one such mythology. It survives because at it's heart there's wisdom, and a lot of culturally backward nonsense as well. The Bible has some good stories, it only becomes a problem when people think it's the word of God and don't use their own intelligence.
The aspect that baffles me in the modern world is the way many believers filter out the things that they personally don't agree with and rigidly adhere to the ones that do. Either it's the word of God and slavery is OK, eating shellfish an abomination and child murder is fine, or it isn't.
WolfEyesatNight
In what way have I been mislead? The advantage of a long comment is that I explained myself pretty well, you've explained virtually nothing.
Modern morals should be understood through rational, compassionate philosophical thought, not through ancient, outdated texts.
You say the bible is "truth." All of it? Or do you just cherry pick?
WolfEyesatNight You didn't address any of the arguments raised by sqeaston Instead of using your circular reasoning think about what you saying. You think that modern morals yet to catch up with the Bible and you claim that the bible is the ultimate truth but can you honestly say that you follow every word of the Bible? Is slavery okay with you or have you never eaten shellfish? If you do disagree with any aspect of the Bible (not cherry picking) then obviously you got you sense of moral elsewhere, using your rationalism or wisdom rather then blindly follow the "truth".
Also, there is about 30-35% Christian among world population, thus do you consider the rest of the world incapable of having morals value worthy of a human being?
Your comment really confuses me. Above all making assumption that I am a racist, without any prove. Isn't it alone a violation of a commandment: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor."
I believe you an hypocrite. I doubt you follow holy sabbath, support slavery, against surgery and etc. You claim the Bible is Truth, why don't you follow every word of it. If you still claiming that you do, then you are lying to yourself, and a bigot.
And yes, science has no morals nor it is its function. I believe we as human being are capable of deciding what is good and bad, we are evolving and getting more consensus what is fair and being civilized mean. And it is not from a outdated book that has so much nonsense in it together with some good teachings.
I looked at the title of the video and then at the publisher and thought "A free thinker wouldn't say, "God is everywhere"". So I clicked on the video thinking the title was sarcastic and to my pleasure I saw the idea of god yet again being slammed.
And thought "I bet religious people didn't make that title connection, so they must all be preaching down there in the comments" and lo and behold a tide of pissed of Christians and what nots.
Stephen Fry is wonderful. I wish I could express myself as well as he does.
I love this man :) Couldn't agree more with everything he says
God is indeed everywhere. He revealed himself to me in the public toilets. It wasn't something to write home about.
+anonymous user ahahahah
+anonymous user This is legendary! ^^
I want to give this man the biggest hug ever!
Well, the explanation that makes most sense to me is the one in which god is just an imaginary friend that we never quite grow out of.
But, yeah, one tyrannt vs. a pantheon of gods - I'd chose the later as well, probably.
People sometimes claim that evil exists because of free will. Couldn't god create a world with free will and without evil? (like heaven)
then there is no point in creating an earth, in a perfect paradise most if not all people will act kindly and friendly towards each other because there is no competition, no strong need for survival, take a "kind" person and put them in a unfriendly environment for a long period, eventually you will see who they truly are.
'Couldn't God...?' That is a guess, a speculation, and it depends on our ability to think as God would or does.
Our history would seem to indicate that we have a very hard time doing that.
Anything can think anything but that doesn't make it true.
That's where evidence comes in.
Aristo Telian What you mean by 'history'? How does this "history" tell us we don't understand God?
I didn't say 'history,' I said 'our history.' That's different. God would have us think rather highly of each other, as his own acts, the lives of all his servants, and the life of Jesus shows. He did. He teaches by example and precept that he would have us so the same and therefore think the same of each other as he does of us.
Since our history is 'an unbroken string of injuries and usurpations' against each other, it would seem that we have a hard time doing that, and therefore thinking as he does.
The voice talent at 1:57 was amazing
Wonderful eloquence as we expect from Stephen Fry. Arguments so solid it's hard to imagine any serious person putting the opposite point of view.
This sums up more than adequately why I love Stephen Fry :)
Substitute the name God for the concept of "The Infinite" and this changes the argument in my view. The infinite space-time singularity where the Big Bang came from seems to be unfolding bottom-up out of nothing, but what if it cannot unfold without being unfolded and there is also a top down element to nature. A Universe has arisen out of nothing somehow, and if this Infinite Source really is infinite, then surely the finely tuned laws of nature arising out of nothing and evolving toward wherever this infinite potential may lead is a modern science-friendly way of looking at the concept God. I think Spinoza pretty much got it right.
If God has a plan for everyone and everything than why do we have free will?
Jonathan Finney exacty
Jonathan Finney We have free will because God is love and he will never force humans to serve him.God is not a dictator.-1John.4:8.
To give us the chance to experience not being god
Ben Williams you have no free will all ur job wife kids are being controlled by invisible power called shit of everywhere
Kwaneskic Clements does God have a plan for you?
I am the god of ethropy... this can be clearly proven from looking at my room.. and how i go about cleaning it... (i throw Ikea at it... but i allway end up increasing the ammount of IKEA to reduce entropy... untill the sheer ammount of IKEA has a entropy of its own...)
im slowly approaching the heat death of my apartment.... X3
(in to powerfull...)
"And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."
I am delighted to hear Stephen Fry talk about the logic, beauty and charm of pantheism - that every "thing" is personified with its own little deity. It's an opinion I've held myself for a long time. I can't bring myself to believe it, but if I could I would, because it's lovely. And it's nice to see such a man as Fry affirm such an opinion. :)
Some of the wisest words ever spoken.
Nice argument, just ask yourselves a question. What if God (or any other force in which u believe in or not) did create the world without any calamities (e.g bone cancer,malaria) and the whole world was a happy go lucky place where even when u died it was a happy and peaceful death. What then? Keep that aside for now and lets go and ask another question first. What if you grew up in that world? All you would see would be happiness, no one dying of cholera, nobody suffering any injustice, What would happen? You seeing as no one needed your help would only focus on yourself and the whole working together as a species would fail :/ and since this is a hypothesis you are the only one capable of human emotions of evil( as the world has to be perfect before you are born)so then you become attached to yourself and the cycle of evil starts. So you see that in any case scenario where there are humans with emotions there will be evil. The ability to choose between those emotions is the whole 'trial' God puts us through. If you do not appreciate that there is evil be thankful that it is there or the very happiness that we cherish we would take for granted and the whole system of balance that is in place would tilt over and collapse. Think of it this way, if there is no evil there can be no good. You disagree? Tell me when do we help others? When we see them in pain or in some form of struggle or strife. If we never saw anyone in pain we would never have a natural reflex to come to anothers aid in their time of distress. (thus point proven that without evil there is no good) Now back to the first question, if we have proven that good and evil come in a combo we would need to get rid of good too. Then whats the point? The whole 'emotion' part of humanity encompasses good and evil and without them humanity would be no different from animals but we are. Hence the price of us being 'smart' and 'intellectual' is the constant struggle between the good and the evil.
farTaLiTy Sure let’s say God is good because he gave us free will and freedom of choice means we have the ability to choose to do evil actions. That is an idea that is kind of justifiable.
What Stephen Fry and many others object to most is natural evil (bone cancer in children, diarrhoea, malaria, insects whose sole purpose is to gouge out the eyeballs of mammals from the inside...etc.). How can God possibly justify these monstrosities? Is the evil committed by humans because of free will not enough for us to be able to appreciate good?
So far I haven’t found any sound justification for natural evil.
Difference between spirituality and religion. I'm spiritual, I believe in love, infinite love and creation, that we are all one consciousness having a subjective experience in individual people. That said, I am DEFINITELY NOT religious, I don't adhere to a doctrine or title or pedestal that I rest myself upon. While I am all for science and the method, trying to explain our universe, I also understand the intrinsic spiritual nature of the universe, it seemingly being made to be observed by consciousness in it's function. Good or bad, saints and rapists, it's all "God", but God isn't some asshole in the sky who hates gays and shellfish, it's much much much more simple than that. God is love, the emotion, the energy, the ideology, the infinite creation that can come from true love for everything. It, in a broad sense, made everything and anything. There's no room for impossibility, which does mean famine, earthquakes, AIDS, cancer, rapists, serial killers, corporate corruption, but it also means music, nature, medicine, charity organizations, cars, art, videogames, milk, literature, bloody Lego!! It can create, we can create. The phrase "God is within you" is merely explaining that the infinite potential to create and love is within all of us, we create the reality we want to exist in. Hate (Satan, if you want to put a name to these energies) will destroy us all. It has no room to grow, learn, heal, it is only to destroy, whether in conversation and ideology, relationships between humans, politics between nations, or in physical terms of destruction of matter and other people. Love will build, unite, heal, inspire, create a universal existence for us all to thrive in. I believe in Jesus, and Mohammed, and Buddha, sure. These people who had the right ideas given their culture and time, and tried to explain it through their own perspective, which are inherently flawed in ways, but they all pointed to an ever-loving God vibration that binds us all and wants us to love, just love. I just hope we can all get over this "MY RELIGION IS THE RIGHT ONE, SO YOU'RE GOING TO BURN" idea and realize that they're all the same bloody thing just written from different perspectives. One day. Maybe. But as far as God? Yeah, I've found God, and it's just unconditional love for everything.
3-4 ... you said it all.My thoughts and my mindset also.You have my respect
Yes all worlds god Yes my friend
I love the way he said, "And where is your God now?" That devious, raspy tone he used and his facial expressions were just hilarious!
Why is it that, when you SHOW evidence in nature that directly contradicts 'intelligent design', creationists start doing the whole angry reading thing?
In the light of real and tangible proof, that completely destroys creationism, childishly quoting bronze age superstition is not an adequate response. Stick your fingers in your ears and go LA LA LA, by all means. But don't embarrass yourself with your big book of stories and spells.
WARNING: THE FOLLOWING COMMENTS CONTAIN LOTS OF PASSAGES THAT PEOPLE TOOK A LOT OF TIME TO COPY FROM A BOOK. PLEASE IGNORE.
Unless there's not much on telly. In which case, go have a good laugh...
+Terry Harrison Because you don't have any such evidence. If you have it show it.
Excellent synopsis of the drooling idiocy of religious belief. Outstanding.
+gor265 Dear Sir :
Christianity and especially the teachings of Jesus Christ
have taught me to and do keep me from doing morally reprehensible things. I was
most vindictive, full of hatred and anger, mallicious and a very violent man. I
learned that God through Jesus Christ could forgive me of all my morally wrong
doings known as sins. For this I am truly grateful. Now I am commanded to love
and forgive others who do me wrong just like God has forgiven me. Is that
a bad thing ? In regards for no evidence for God, thats not true - I would ask
you to be rational and at least check out if there is enough corroborative
evidence for the person and Historicity of Jesus Christ.
What would I consider evidence:
1. The transformation of my mind heart and soul that anything and everything
else was unable to change.
Here are 10 reasons from Pastor David Robertson who wrote a great rebuttal
called the Dawkins Letters.
1. The Creation. By that I mean the heavens and the earth, from the smallest
atom to the vastest galaxy. It all shouts to me of the glory of God. As I write
I am sitting in my parent’s home in the Scottish Highlands overlooking the
Dornoch Firth. The night is still and clear and in a moment I will go and clear
my head and gaze up at the stars.
The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the work of his hands.
Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night they display knowledge.
There is no speech or language where their voice is not heard. Their voice goes
out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world. In the heavens he
has pitched a tent for the sun. (Psalm 19:1-4)
I include science in this category. I think it is very foolish for Christians
or others to seek to prove or disprove God on the basis of a current scientific
theory or on empirical evidence alone. But science within its own constraints
as the observation of what God has made is a marvellous and often
faith-affirming thing.
2. The Human mind and spirit. Why are we conscious? Why are we special? And
life. Where does it come from? How can we get life from non-life?
3. The Moral Law. How do we know what good and evil is? Why do we have a sense
of that at all?
4. Evil. Unlike Dawkins I cannot believe in the innate goodness of human
beings. I see too much evil and no explanation fits what I observe as neatly
and realistically as the teaching of the Bible. More than that I find that the
Bible also brings us the answer to evil - and I have never yet come across any
philosophy which does so.
5. Religion. Yes there is so much in religion that is wrong and in many ways I
hate religion. Generally I think it is a human imitation that more often than
not blocks the way to God rather than opens it. And yet it is an imitation of
something that is real. As Augustine said, ‘Our hearts were made for you, O
God, and they are restless until they find their rest in you.’
6. Experience. I believe because I have tasted that God is good. Of course we
can be deluded in our experience (that is why we need to reflect). And we can
be wrong in our knowledge. But it would be a strange kind of person who did not
take into account their experiences as part of the whole package. Not long
after I became a Christian I was visiting a ‘hippy’ home where amidst all the
music and drugs paraphernalia there was a poster stuck on the wall. Its words
have remained with me ever since: ‘All I have seen teaches me to trust the
Creator for all that I have not seen’. Sure - answered prayer, that sense of
God’s presence and that joy in worship may all have been illusory. But then
again it may all have been real.
7. History. Again as I have continued to read and study history it has
broadened my horizons and enables me to see in the words of the old cliché that
it is ‘His Story’. The history of mankind makes a whole lot more sense when it
is set in the context of the history of God.
8. The Church. I mentioned earlier that there are things in the Church that
more than anything else have caused me to doubt. When you see Christians
behaving in a way which would shame Satanists, when you see preachers being
pompous, hypocritical, money and glory-grabbers, then it is enough to put you
off Christianity for life. But I have also seen the other side. I have seen the
most beautiful people (some of whom had been quite frankly ugly before their
conversion) behave in the most wonderful, inexplicable ways. Inexplicable that
is except for the grace and love of God. The Church at its best is glorious,
beautiful and one of the best reasons to believe.
9. The Bible. Again I mentioned problems that I have had and occasionally still
have. But I can truthfully say this - that every year I read the Bible through
at least once, that every day I try to read it and every week I study it in
order to proclaim it. It has been a source of challenge, comfort, truth and
renewal. I have no doubt that God speaks to me through it (and I don’t mean the
kind of loopy ignoring of context or more esoteric interpretations). In fact, I
am so assured of this, experiencing it continually, that I have very little
time for Christians who are always looking for ‘extra words’ - as though the
Bible were not enough. For me the thrill is still there.
10. Jesus. I guess that any one of the above nine reasons would not be enough
on their own - although I think their cumulative effect is overwhelming. But
this is the icing on the cake. Actually no ... this is the cake. Jesus is the
reason I believe and will continue to believe:
Dear lionofthetribe1,
The doctrines of Christianity helping you overcome a terrible affliction of vindictive, violent hatred can only be a good thing. Being "commanded to love someone who does you wrong" though, it seems to me, is a bad thing. We may be able to forgive, but is it even possible to sincerely love those who do us wrong? Is it not apathetic pacifism, immoral teaching, should evil not be resisted?
No matter. Is it important to you that a given proposition is true? Just because you believe in something doesn't mean it's true. For me truth is of the upmost importance.
And for me the bible and organised religion is the farthest one can possibly get from truth. Nothing else competes.
I won't engage you on each of your ten points, suffice to say I have never ever found any credible evidence or feasible logical argument for the existence of any God. All the evidence thus far points the opposite way and indicates ludicrous fabrication and falsehood.
Your belief is personal to you and has been hugely beneficial, go for it. I genuinely wish you continued health and happiness.
For me, I know nothing at all of the timeless eternity that was before I came into this world and am hopeful that same peace will once again return when I eventually die.
gor265 Your commentary is genuine and most fair. Can I ask you can you tell me what is that you have that is a problem with the new testament teachings and person of Jesus Christ ?
I dislike the mishmash smorgasbord of encrypted contradictory "guidance notes" we have to haplessly interpret and cherry-pick from. I have a problem with being invited to a test, where we have to muddle our way through a book of nonsense, and if we get it wrong, all hell breaks loose (so to speak).
I have a problem bringing myself to believe that this world and what we do during an infinitesimal blip of time on it, forms the centre piece of a cosmic reward and punishment game that effects you for the rest of time thereafter.
I find it more interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which in all probability may be wrong. I have approximate answers and possible beliefs and different degrees of uncertainty about different things, but I am not absolutely sure of anything and there are many things I don't know anything about, such as whether it even means anything to ask why we are here.
I don't have to know an answer. I don't feel frightened not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious universe without any purpose, which as far as I can tell is the way it really is.. RF.
gor265 I have no problem with not knowing all the answers to lifes questions. However anyne can do what you do and that is to redifine, distort and what you master at is to put on a seriously negative spin on Jesus christ and his teachings. I have been seriously studying Christianity 16 years now and I am 100% certain in a much more serious life transforming way than you have ever thought about let alone trying it out. The Christ you speak of I know nothing about as it is one you have created in your own mind.
You said your not certain about anything - seems to be your certain about something you know very very little about because of your negative and sour picked intepretation and that is of the historical person, tachings and claims of Jesus Christ ??
Steven fry *is* God
"Ye too are Gods".
You see the God in him, yet you'll probably fail to see/acknowledge the God in yourself.
God is omnipresent (everywhere) - including in Stephen Fry, in me and in YOU !
But the athiests will say 'give me proof'...... yawn.......
Jez2008UK Are you yawning at the fact that you have just put up a series of unsupported statements, or the fact that you will have to support them later in order to appear justified and true?
FunGUI
Don't understand your question.
As I say, I'm tired of explaining - just like you're illustrating here - you want proof and supporting evidence.
I think I'll just set up my own CZcams channel and express my thoughts there.
Why are you saying he *is* God ? What supporting statements do you have ?
Jez2008UK It is because I respect Stephen Fry; he is a good person.
Perhaps the reason that you explain things so many times to no avail is that your arguments are not as good as you think they are?
FunGUI
So your supporting evidence is that he's a good person.
Good.
My supporting evidence is that God is good.
Glad we agree.
To the hardcore philosophers like Socrates and Aristotle, the gods werent actual humanoids but rather aspects of nature and the human psyche. Ares wasn't this dude who actually went around starting wars, he's the violent, brutal warlike aspect of human nature, whereas Athena is the more methodical, strategic aspect of warfare, Aphrodite wasnt some slut who went around fucking anything she saw, she was the physically intimate aspect of human relationships. The problem with monotheism, as Mr Fry points out, is that its all about this monolithic overlord who controls ALL aspects of human nature and if you go against him you're fucked.
Yes, while I agree with him, a typical creationist would respond by saying that all the unpleasent things in this world (e.g parasitic worm eating a lambs eye away as he dies in agony as mentioned) were never intended to be here and are purely as result of Adam and Eve eating the fruit and causing sin to enter the world.
I’ve never heard any creationist advance such a view.
@@luckybag6814 Spend some time in East Texas.
God only seems to be with one of the 42000 Christian denominations....I wonder who won the get to go to heaven lottery?
With only one? Who told you that?
Aristo Telian Who told or convinced you there were more?
Jim Chase Sorry? You seem to have missed the point. You said that God 'only seems to be with one of the 42.000.' I asked 'With only one? Who told you that?'
Aristo Telian My bad, well that's easy, it the one true god being represented by the Christian in front of you at the moment...Just ask them. : )
Jim Chase But almost all of them agree that they worship the same God--Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, Coptic, all who accept the Apostles' and/or Niceaen Creeds agree on God.
wise words Fry
I got falling down drunk one night while out with one of my women, and while I was driving home, Jesus was suddenly sitting in the passenger street, and he told me that I had better stop sinning with alcohol, or I would be sorry too. Since then, I have really tried to stop drinking. Praise JESUS
Hot damn that's brilliant.
Where's your god now
• CORRUPTION
Genesis 1:31
God looked at everything he had made, and found it VERY GOOD.
No mention of bone cancer in children there then Stephen, or of maggots eating a lamb's eye out from the inside out, nor for that matter inappropriate and perverse sexual desires that not only defy logic, but tormenting the individual defies their precious evolutionary rules.
So when did the Creation become so corrupted? Why at the Fall of Man of cause, when leaving off serving the Creator we bowed to serve another, and just as the Scriptures say...
Romans 6:16
Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
For even the creation given us [Genesis 1:28] longs for Mankind whom it serves, to be redeemed back into the original authoritative order we once left.
Romans 8:19
For creation awaits with eager expectation the revelation of the children of God;
• GOD RECEDING.
As for God receding and supposingly being driven back by science... yes maybe for those who found God a convenient prop while science was in its infancy, as no doubt was their knowledge of the Scripture, but for us who search the Scriptures daily, not at all rather His handiwork is revealed more and more every passing day.
1 Corinthians 3:19
For the wisdom of this world is foolishness before God. For it is written, "He is THE ONE WHO CATCHES THE WISE IN THEIR CRAFTINESS";
I'm still waiting for the terrifying ice age we were all warned about in the 1970's to either kill or drive me south. Or for that matter, dying from all of the eggs I once ate when 'scientists' said were then good, then bad and then good again... or was that cholesterol, butter or cheese. It hard to remember since supposed infallible 'scientists' keep changing their minds as they receive more and more, so called "enlightenment".
Just because as the Scriptures prophecies of these last days knowledge has increased [Daniel 12:4] doesn't make a man any wiser or of a morally higher standard than say the Lord or peasant walking the streets of Manchester back in the 17oo's. Yet give a man an iPhone and a computer and he thinks it so.
***** Hi wallofmindlessness48, sorry for the late reply...
Satan was not that serpent in the garden, but the snake has certainly become a representation of Satan since that day...
Remember when Jesus, turning to Peter said... "get thee behind Me Satan"?
Matthew 16:23
But He turned and said to Peter, "Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me; for you are not setting your mind on God's interests, but man's."
And likewise when Satan entered Judas Iscariot, who then went out to betray our Lord...
Luke 22:3
And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.
The same happened to a creature called the Serpent in the garden, whom Satan noted was skilled in cunning [wit] knew it was the right tool for the job, even to be used to deceived Eve who having been deceived, who then use her great powers of persuasion to force Adam to 'knowingly' rebel against God.
Then we read that God cursed the Serpent for obeying Satan rather than God...
Genesis 3:14
So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,
“Cursed are you above all livestock
and all wild animals!
You will crawl on your belly
and you will eat dust
all the days of your life.
And then God prophesied the destruction of Satan who had used the Serpent, just as he had Judas, Peter and we...
Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity
between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and hers;
he will crush your head,
and you will strike his heel.”
God then went on to chastisement on the man and the women, she for obeying Satan rather than God and he for knowingly rebelling against his Creator...
My point for saying all of that is...
1). Satan, not God is the source of sin, whom God had made perfect in the beginning of his creation.
Ezekiel 28:15 [God referring to Satan]
You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till wickedness was found in you.
Who uses others to do his will, bringing God's wrath upon those who obey him and ultimately himself at the end.
2). And that to varying degrees we all have corrupted ourselves, whom none of us are the innocent children we once were... but are aged with corruption, like ripe grapes waiting for the harvest and ready to be crushed in the press at the end of the World.
Revelation 14:18-19
18 - And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe.
19 - And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
For very soon God is going to finally deal with this outbreak of sin, who will give each man a worthy recompense for his actions.
Ecclesiastes 12:14
For God will bring every act to judgment, everything which is hidden, whether it is good or evil.
Scripture is clear, there is one and only one penalty for the sin of the soul, and that is the death of the sinner, nothing else will suffice God's wrath or His righteousness. Which if a man pay being guilty shall never see life, but the wrath of God will abide on him forever.
But if an innocent man could pay for another's penalty for sin [death]... even one who owing no penalty Himself, would willingly die to pay for the sins of another, even us sinners taken captive by sin and so worthy of death.
If such a thing could happen, the law of sin and death would have no legal right to detain such a person in death, whom being innocent would thereafter rise to everlasting life... having destroyed forever the power of death over all who believed in His promise!
John 11:25
Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,
This is what God's Son dis, prophesied in ages past and accomplished many years ago... whom then lowering Himself to be born into fallen humanity never sinned even once that He could save us, who for our sakes was careful to be crucified in the likeness of sinful men.
And so we come back to the serpent, which Moses placing one upon a staff to represent the snakes who bit them in the desert because of their sins, also represents Christ Jesus crucified, when He an innocent man became sin for us, that though we might die we can live with Him... forever.
John 3:14-15
14 - Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
15 - that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”
All these Bible quotes are pointless. Your god is meant to be omnipotent and omniscient.
So Ezekiel should read...
You were blameless in your ways from the day I created you until the wickedness I placed in you was found.
For god to abrogate responsibility for the actions of his creations who are following his plan, is completely ridiculous. What kind of author blames the characters in the book he has written for the things he wrote them doing?
Makes no sense at all does it? Well, not to anyone capable of using reason and logic anyway.
ZelenoffFanClub
*Abrogating responsibility?*
So you would rather that humanity were denied knives, least some plunging one into the heart another, they take a man's life? Or rather we were all denied the benefits of the internet... least some willingly laying their eyes on perversity corrupt their own selves and others... thereafter to suffer the torments of lusting after things never before imagined?
But God has not only given us free will with responsibility, but clear commands that if we walk therein shall be blessed, but wander from suffer confusion.
Likewise Satan willingly chose to walk contrary to God's commands, not only corrupting his own self but bringing upon God's creative order the disorder and confusion seen today among those who willingly choose to obey his prompting... rather than the commands of God woven into our hearts. [Conscience]
*Exodus 32:7*
Then the LORD spoke to Moses, "Go down at once, for your people, whom you brought up from the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves.
Don't think I'm being high-minded here, I didn't turn to Christ because I am self-righteous, but rather because acknowledging my sin and fallen state understood that I not only needed a saviour, but the power to live a new life free from sin and its terrible consequences.
*1 John 3:4*
Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness; because sin is lawlessness.
As many parents, God has chosen to give humanity free-will with responsibility, whom as the trusty dog may walk by His side in unleashed liberty, having been found faithful.
Not so the wayward, who are not only held fast upon a short lead but suffer rebuked, least darting out into traffic they bring upon both themselves and others great harm.
esculent1 Humanity are denied nothing outside of your dogmatic nonsense. Yours is the path of the illogical, the unreasonable, the nonsensical.
Bakunin. God and the State:
The Bible, which is a very interesting and here and there very profound book when considered as one of the oldest surviving manifestations of human wisdom and fancy, expresses this truth very naively in its myth of original sin. Jehovah, who of all the good gods adored by men was certainly the most jealous, the most vain, the most ferocious, the most unjust, the most bloodthirsty, the most despotic, and the most hostile to human dignity and liberty - Jehovah had just created Adam and Eve, to satisfy we know not what caprice; no doubt to while away his time, which must weigh heavy on his hands in his eternal egoistic solitude, or that he might have some new slaves. He generously placed at their disposal the whole earth, with all its fruits and animals, and set but a single limit to this complete enjoyment. He expressly forbade them from touching the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He wished, therefore, that man, destitute of all understanding of himself, should remain an eternal beast, ever on all-fours before the eternal God, his creator and his master. But here steps in Satan, the eternal rebel, the first freethinker and the emancipator of worlds. He makes man ashamed of his bestial ignorance and obedience; he emancipates him, stamps upon his brow the seal of liberty and humanity, in urging him to disobey and eat of the fruit of knowledge.
We know what followed. The good God, whose foresight, which is one of the divine faculties, should have warned him of what would happen, flew into a terrible and ridiculous rage; he cursed Satan, man, and the world created by himself, striking himself so to speak in his own creation, as children do when they get angry; and, not content with smiting our ancestors themselves, he cursed them in all the generations to come, innocent of the crime committed by their forefathers. Our Catholic and Protestant theologians look upon that as very profound and very just, precisely because it is monstrously iniquitous and absurd. Then, remembering that he was not only a God of vengeance and wrath, but also a God of love, after having tormented the existence of a few milliards of poor human beings and condemned them to an eternal hell, he took pity on the rest, and, to save them and reconcile his eternal and divine love with his eternal and divine anger, always greedy for victims and blood, he sent into the world, as an expiatory victim, his only son, that he might be killed by men. That is called the mystery of the Redemption, the basis of all the Christian religions. Still, if the divine Savior had saved the human world! But no; in the paradise promised by Christ, as we know, such being the formal announcement, the elect will number very few. The rest, the immense majority of the generations present and to come, will burn eternally in hell. In the meantime, to console us, God, ever just, ever good, hands over the earth to the government of the Napoleon Thirds, of the William Firsts, of the Ferdinands of Austria, and of the Alexanders of all the Russias.
Such are the absurd tales that are told and the monstrous doctrines that are taught...
I've already explained that your god precludes free will. He creates his slaves already knowing (having decided himself, because how can he not?) every thought, decision and action they will ever take. This was true of Satan, Judas, Jesus and everyone before or since. How can we reasonably be expected to take responsibility?
ZelenoffFanClub
*Out of your list I of accusations against God, I recognise only one...*
Deuteronomy 32:21
Since they have incited me with a “no-god,”
and provoked me with their empty idols,
I will incite them with a “no-people”;
with a foolish nation I will provoke them.
This goes hand in hand with...
1 Corinthians 10:20
No, but I say that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice, they sacrifice to devils and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers in devils.
Meaning, that when idol worshippers [Pagans, most Catholics etc...] sacrifice [of praise, animals or children] to the idols which they had carved with their own hands, they are really sacrificing to the devil that has attached itself to it to the idol... not only be empowering it but crediting it as the creator... a title that belongs only to God.
*The tree of the knowledge of good and evil*
God denied them to take from the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, for as their Creator He knew that having so attained, they would being presented with both often choose the evil rather than the good, forcing a righteous God to act and brining them under the condemnation of death.. that sin might be restrained from speeding throughout His creative order.
Or would you, allow the rapist to go free... that lawlessness should run rampant throughout society. For even a judge who wishes to retain his right standing must punish all acts of lawlessness, if he is to be known as righteous. Therefore God chastised us in hope... that in our grief we might seek His face and be released from this bondage of decay.
Romans 8:20-21
20 - For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope
21 - that the creation itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.
And how many parents I wonder chastise their children in hope that they will repent, turn from their rebellion and back to the loving arms of those who chastised them in hope?
Yes the curse has fallen on their descendants, even all of those who hate God and don't keep His commandments, yet showing mercy to those who love Him and keep His Word.
Exodus 20:5-6
5 - you shall not bow down before them or serve them. For I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, inflicting punishment for their ancestors’ wickedness on the children of those who hate me, down to the third and fourth generation
6 - but showing love down to the thousandth generation of those who love me and keep my commandments.
Luke 11:28
But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God and observe it."
The reason for this is clear, because of the actions by our forefathers we have all likewise attain a knowledge we can not bare, all having at times chosen the evil and so come under the condemnation of death. But God has not forsaken us as Satan would have hoped for, but sent His Son in the likeness of sinful man... that having never sinned He might pay the penalty for the sin of a man which is the death of a man... making Him unlike Allah or any other demonic faith... able to show mercy while retaining His righteousness though it cost Him His only Son.
*Hell, Hades and Death*
And yes you are right, anyone who refuses this free gift will be required to pay the penalty for sin themselves, even death whom being guilty shall wait in Hades until they are called to judgement. For no one can be sentenced until they have been judged first.
Revelation 20:11-
11 - Next I saw a large white throne and the one who was sitting on it. The earth and the sky fled from his presence and there was no place for them.
12 - I saw the dead, the great and the lowly, standing before the throne, and scrolls were opened. Then another scroll was opened, the book of life. The dead were judged according to their deeds, by what was written in the scrolls.
13 - The sea gave up its dead; then Death and Hades gave up their dead. All the dead were judged according to their deeds.
14 - Then Death and Hades were thrown into the pool of fire. (This pool of fire is the second death.)
*Satan's Earthly Kingdom.*
Remember God gave the Earth and all therein to Man, who then willingly served Satan rather than God... and don't the scriptures say...
Romans 6:16
Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?
And everything that belongs to the slave is his masters, that is why Satan is called the 'god of this world'...
2 Corinthians 4:4
in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that they may not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.
Who offered it to Jesus, in the hope that the Son of God would serve him, but He refused...
Luke 4:6-8
6 - The devil said to him, “I shall give to you all this power and their glory; for it has been handed over to me, and I may give it to whomever I wish.
7 - All this will be yours, if you worship me.”
8 - Jesus said to him in reply, “It is written:
‘You shall worship the Lord, your God,
and him alone shall you serve.’”
Jesus Himself confessing the same... that what we see on Earth today... the death, rape, murder and famines etc... is neither His will nor kingdom but another's [Satan's]...
John 18:36
Jesus answered, “My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, my servants would have been fighting, that I might not be delivered over to the Jews. But my kingdom is not from the world.”
So your accusation that God sent us tyrants is annulled, who rather sent His Son that we might be ruled by a righteous King and escape this madness...
Revelation 12:5
She gave birth to a son, a male child, destined to rule all the nations with an iron rod.[e] Her child was caught up to God and his throne.
*Free will*
Your accusation that He precludes freewill is not only manifest as erroneous by the fact that you may openly slander His name, but a fleeting gaze at the News can see the results of men obeying the one you celebrate as giving us this knowledge that we can not bare.
Jeremiah 17:9
More tortuous than anything is the human heart,
beyond remedy; who can understand it?
1 John 3:8
The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil.
I love this man's mind, and totally agree - polytheism, as a comforting way of explaining the otherwise inexplicable, exemplifies a poetic way of avoiding the existential threat inherent in admitting that, "I don't know." For most of human existence, it was our JOB to either know or die. Here in the 21st century, when "I don't know" is more likely to discomfit us than to result in our death, there is very little justification for choosing wilful ignorance over available knowledge, and theism, most notable monotheism, is becoming harder and harder to sell. 🙏
God is the creator as well as the created. he is the watcher as well as the watched. he is life and the bringer of death. he creates good as well as evil. God is more real than we are. we are but dreams of the absolute. God is the great "I AM" anything that can say "I AM" verily is God himself! theres no other way around it!
I think your comment made me dumber for having read it. God is a figment of mans imagination nothing more nothing less.
more like were a figment of his. but youl never understand that. but scientists are starting to.
Outside having been told this throughout your life by your family and peers, outside the contradictory and obviously mythical book, how do you know any of what your comment said? What do YOU know, that apparently most of the world got wrong?
you dont have to believe me. But i know deep down you want to or you wouldnt be looking at this vid. so Open yourself to Gods inflouence and hel show you. theres nothing i can do to help you find God.
ravenofsorrow777 I've already submitted myself to God, but I do not conjure some image of a father figure from ancient patriarchal religions, watching over his creations on a flat disk surrounded by oceans and covered by a dome with stars dotted on it (as described in the bible), I do not believe this universe was created for us or that we are separate creatures from the animals; your Abrahamic God is too small.
You see, I am somewhat of a skeptical person and require objective, testable evidence to believe extraordinary claims, I don't take things on blind faith; in God's image was I made, and I made damn well sure to fact check that. I see God inside you, me, everyone, and everything. The infinite totality of existence that we are part of is the only thing that can be proven to exist and is worthy of the label God.
There's a difference in not believing in God and discriminating people for what they believe
God is everything, without Him you have nothing.
Stephen Fry is an empty drum.
For you maybe.
I did. "If" being the word of the day in that passage. It doesn't say "sell your children into slavery".
He made a perfect point. In religion, God is what we dont know. In "Atheism", God is everything, even ourselves.
The main problem with theism is not the belief in God, but rather the traits THEY chose for him. If they invented a god with the traits of Stephen Fry, I doubt theism or religion would be anywhere near the problem it is today.
My ten year old next door neighbor tried to fight me when I told him Santa Claus wasn't real.
I didn't read the rest of this thread, but I did want to comment on the "bacteria are the dominant species" idea. It's extremely interesting that all humans (and indeed most animals, including all animals that need oxygen) are actually part bacteria. By that I mean every one of those animal cells, including our own, have mitochondria, which are nothing more than symbiotic bacteria that have evolved after infecting our cells. Human cells are partially a bacterial infection.
I only called them objective as that is the only way i could explain it, i meant that they do not change unless in times when we decide changing/adapting is better, either in long term or short term.
I used to think there's a 50/50 chance there is something after death. Now, I come to realize the heaven or hell is right here, right now. When your dead your done. Sorry, we all want a sequel.....But, I still go to mass every week because that is the only place people feel they don't have to think to be smart....
No i am referring to the everyday objective morals we use. as i said earlier, we use a form of it in everyday life but can be broken down if necessary, i call it objective as there is no other way to define it, i know it means it can never be broken but there is no term for unbreakable unless needed.
I had bone cancer when I was thirteen.. and I believe in 1 true God.Even though we were sinners God still loved us and sent his only Son Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice to die for our sins and to defeat sin itself.Only faith pleases God, and it was his plan all along so that no flesh shall glory in his presence. You are not saved by works, being a do gooder etc, but only by believing in Jesus. Don't believe in Jesus?, well then he cant deny himself. He will make himself known to you, just ask.
The definition of Atheism:
The belief that there was nothing, and nothing happened to nothing, and then nothing magically exploded for no reason, creating everything and then a bunch of everything magically rearranged itself for no reason what so ever into self-replicating bits which then turned itself into dinosaurs.
But his argument was that polytheism is more plausible than monotheism. So, my point still remains: Monotheism is more plausible than polytheism because it is a more parsimonious.
The reason is, because God respects the creation so much that it won't intervene in it's choices. Tornados, Earthquakes, Hurricanes, droughts, those aren't his will over it. You very well know that our world is ruled by physical, chemical and biological factors, so he is just being coherent with it, respecting our free will. And that same free will comes at the moment of either choosing his will/design over us, or living on our own. And sometimes his will comes in the less expected ways.
"Now you're being insulting".....FYI, don't dish it out if you can't take it.
A comedian said there was no God and believed instantly. Look at you!
It's interesting how he says that God has receded as we've learned more. All that proves to a religious person is that with our knowledge we've become arrogant enough to believe that we don't need religion any more.
No wonder I feel safer as a skeptic!
"Occam's razor (also written as Ockham's razor from William of Ockham, and in Latin lex parsimoniae) is a principle of parsimony, economy, or succinctness used in logic and problem-solving. It states that among competing hypotheses, the hypothesis with the fewest assumptions should be selected." (source: Wikipedia: Occam's Razor)
Monotheism is more plausible than polytheism because it is more parsimonious.
Not to mention how you've completely avoided the question: Where does that passage condone child abuse?
"those ancients he belittles understood human nature more so than we do today Thats why they accepted God"
I could not disagree with you more. Ancient humans were extremely clever and intelligent, just like we are today. But to say that they knew MORE than what we know about our own humanity?
Heavens no (pun), Our understanding of human psychology, anatomy, culture (OTHER Cultures, not just our own), and history is so vast now. We are more progressive and understanding now then we have ever been
the thing is , we don't live forever , the idea of an afterlife is a nice thing to think about for the masses
As a theist I do believe it is very wrong to say "if i dont understand it then it must be God" We should always be discovering things and pursuing knowledge, but I believe that the way in which things work is because of God, we will always dig deeper, but in my belief that doesn't change God's involvement in it.
its amazing how he made these great points under four minutes. really intelligent guy
LOL exactly. I've recently had a short debate on the efficacy of prayer. Apparently i need to 'believe' for prayer to work. So apparently all those starving children dying in Third world countries aren't 'believing' enough when they pray for food and safety. It seems Yahweh prefers to help the middle to upper class.
Because not knowing isn't the same as not believing. for one to not believe, one must have good reason NOT to believe. One doesn't, however need a reason not to know. So which one exactly are you? Do you not know (Agnostic) or Don't you believe (Atheist). And if you don't believe (Atheist) What led you to not believe? Do you have any reasons not to believe or don't you think this question deserves answering?
That is what he is saying. If there is evil and he doesn't stop it, he is either not able, not willing or both. He is not saying God is the source of evil. He is accosting God for allowing evil to exist. Because evil exists, God must not be preventing it meaning He is either unwilling or unable or both. That's not up for debate. Those are the only ways evil could exist in the face of God. I personally thought it was phrased impeccably. Other than (neither or) when it should have been neither nor
"who said why where?` great argument.
I don't even know why I responded... debating religious people is like trying to kick water uphill, it's impossible.
Hinduism say god present everywhere.
But not only GOD, also so many deities are present everywhere.
Today science well know about 4 invisible deities. They are present everywhere.
1:- Radiation (VAAYU DEV)
2:- Magnetic field (ASVANI-KUMAR)
3:- Electro static Field (INDRA DEV)
4:- Temperature (AGNI DEV)
Take a sensitive measuring instruments (meter), go anywhere in universe, insert inside your body or outside your body, or all pure & impure material, you can get a level of all above this 4.
So how God present everywhere ?
Simple Ans-
Like above 4.
STILL DOESN'T MEAN HINDUISM OR WHATEVER RELIGION IS RIGHT. FUCK OFF WITH YOUR BULLSHIT. We don't want religion. We want thinking, because religion is religion, it is just silly little bullshit. And damn right we have a reason to defend ourselves. We don't need all this mental illness here. Get help plz.
Never thought of it in a greek stand point. brilliant!
I choose to perceive God as he is described in the Bible to be.
I find it strange that all the atheist critics of theism generally have a very shallow, uninformed, ahistorical view of religion.
Yes the Greeks had polytheism, but many of the major Greek philosophers had a monotheistic understanding which is largely why well educated followers merged with Christianity so easily.
The biggest transition was probably Pythagoras who was in Egypt that had both a polytheism and monotheist concept, he studied the Jewish religion as well, and ended up with a monotheistic philosophy which was one of the most influential cults in the ancient world.
Heraclitus "God is an intelligible sphere whose center is everywhere and circumference nowhere."
Plato - there is an ideal God beyond the Gods, and the ideal of the Good which became the same for the Neo-Platonists
Socrates - denial of all Gods but then proclaimed that Gods nature was singular.
Aristotle- God is a detached transcendent demiurge
A similar conceptualization can be found in Hinduism where God is manifested in many Gods.
So polytheism contains monotheism and monotheism contains polytheism.
For example Christianity has God the father and God the son, the Holy Spirit, Mary, Satan, Beelzebub, Leviathan, various angels etc. then hundred saints.
What is fascinating with Santarian Vodoo is how they transplant polytheistic Yuroban Gods onto the saints.
Also There is evidence in both the Mediterranean and in India a spectrum of literalism and allegory in religion and various times in history.
There is an entire book in the Upanishads that discuss the appropriate way to regard a statue of a god. To revere the statue as the living god was considered idolatry or childish to not revere the statue at all was ignorant. Compare that to the Protestants who destroyed every statue of Mary in the English Catholic Churches and the Catholics who believed the statues could cry or bleed. Or the Muslims who had a similar attitude as the Protestants.
Yes religion is irrational, but it is our human condition.
We generally replace it. We now have politician kings whom we periodically symbolically sacrifice, and movie stars we fall in and out of love with, and believe in the magical powers of consumer products like "Nike" shoes. The shift in consciousness has not been from theism to atheism but from monotheism back to polytheism but in an unconscious way.
That is what I find rather shallow about most atheist on big think. They have no concept that religious thinking is our human condition. That we don't just escape it by being rational of being humanist, we are the Gods and God so we continually manufacture it, just like we will continue to dream.
So a better approach to all of this iconoclasm would be to understand our religious impulses rather than deny they exist.
According to Kabbalah all sentient beings are manifestations from the mind of God. I don't subscribe to any particular faiths but that sort of thing makes sense to me, it implies that this is all essentially a dream and God is the dreamer. That explains why life is so imperfect, the "creator" is experiencing this reality as we do. God is the worm and the baby lamb.
Remove the word 'manifestation' -- which to be fair adds nothing to the statement -- and you have every other monotheistic religious belief on the origins of 'sentient beings'.
Dreaming would suggest subconscious rather than conscious manifestations -- which is not implied in any way.
And if god is perfect, imperfection would, by definition, be impossible, even subconsciously. I'd say god is the limp, the crutch and the distant promise of a cure.
It doesn't take away from the fact that a mass amount of poeple still believe it.
NO! God is a manmade concept.
If it dosen't live in YOU, it's not real.
On a planet of 9 million there are 9 million gods.
240,000 people go to Hell every day. That's 158 people a minute. You can line up all the people who went to Hell in the last 10 years and have them all hold hands - if they hadn’t been chewed off by demons
"You have the argumentative skills of a sea cucumber"
"your argument was defeated by a sea cucumber"
"mine is still bigger than yours little one"
That was your previous comment summed up. And then you drop this bombshell:
"you have no points to make now do you?"
mmm.. Delicious irony... omnomnom
Faith caught the bus into town as she had a job interview.
Er.. What? I just assumed that we both thought that having sex with children was wrong as kind of a given. You said that giving birth gives sexual gratification, and then accuse me of being the pervert. Nice one.
He was making a point, you're not - you're just refuting my argument with false science. But I'll humor you. The HIV evolution I mentioned was the mutation of SIV into a human-transmissible form, and the subsequent adaptations which mean that wild type HIV can't infect it's original simian hosts. The microbial world reference was related to the Long-Term E. coli experiment which observed the evolution of citrate metabolism in an organism for which the lack of this pathway is a defining trait++++
As a deist person, I deny his surroundability.
As a deist person, you have no frame of reference.
I'll change to a deist when God(s) start calling me!
Anyway, the law protected the slaves from abuse.
-Killing a slave warranted severe punishment. (Ex 21:20)
-Injured or abused slaves had to be set free. (Ex 21:26-27)
-Slaves who ran away from oppressive masters and could prove so were also freed. (Dt 23:15-16)
-All slaves were to be freed after 6 years. (Ex 21:2, Dt 5:14)
-Freed slaves were liberally given food, wine, and livestock. (Dt 15:12-15)
-All slaves were treated as hired workers. (Lev 25:39-43)
(cont.)
There is some evidence. Now a reason to believe in God is that we are all dying beings and there is nothing to lose in believing in a god.
"God is infinite reality, whereas cosmos is infinite illusion. But both are not infinite in the same sense. God is one infinite, and illusion is infinite in numbers. God is infinite unity, and illusion infinite duality. Always God is. All along illusion is not. Illusion or no illusion, God remains beginningless and endless, while illusion has a beginning in illusion and it also ends in illusion. The infinite illusion includes an infinite number of suns, stars, moons, planets and worlds,.." Meher
I loved his "where is your God now?" voice XD.
If "God" is defined as that which we don't understand, then the search and desire to progress is, in fact, not the search for God. Instead, it's the desire to remove as much of God as we possibly can until there's nothing left of It, the search to understand as much about the world as possible until there are no more places left to call "God".
No, God gave man free will to choose right from wrong and Jesus is returning for the second coming for all to behold. I have personally felt our Heavenly Father's astounding love for us. There is nothing anyone can do or say to take that experience from me. I can say what I said because I died and my soul went to heaven, but God stopped it along the way and said it wasn't my time yet and sent my soul back to my body to live again. I thank Him every day for giving me my life back...literally!
So, going back to your original statement, God DID create a planet of peaceful herbivores.
we are all teachers of eachother
And God said it is Good. not perfect.Perfection is static and dead.Life is dynamic and changing.
Stephen Fry is incredible.
And THAT is why I'm a polytheist.
You don't have a truth, you have a belief. Belief is never a truth without evidence.
That's why Satan fits so perfectly on Christianity. If something bad happens in the world, christians can just say "Oh, that's just Satan, or Belzebub or some other demon". It's a perfect cop out.
"...But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves." Numbers 31:1-18
This is about female children. It stresses "that have not known a man by lying with him" and then "keep alive for yourself", in the same sentence. I find it difficult not to see the clear link between those two sentences.
It clearly says "children", and in these times a child would be anyone who had not begun puberty. How would men at the time read this?
Thor understands his reasoning, Hela and my brother Loki are not the nicest people around. And i may not be the most nicest either, but I like humanity. Leave the Love and Beauty to my brother Balder, I am the God of Thunder and Lightning!
The pillars made in Moses' time, the 2 story rock he split in half, and the alter of the golden calf. The video of the light over Jerusalem seen by many people. The rest is stuff that I can't show because I had no camera when my friends were there to witness it lol
Say what you will. Stephen Fry is one of the coolest and funniest men alive.
20 - 40 years down the line a majority of Swallows will therefore have stubby wings. However some nesting away from said roads and might not encounter cars obviously won't have this adaptation. This create a sub-species of Swallow. There would be the Swallow (as we know it currently with wing tips), then the new Stubbed Wing Swallow. But the stubby one will be the dominant species (like humans). Whereas the original tipped Swallows will be the originals (Apes). Just multiply the adaptation tons
Reminds me of Monty Python's parody of "All things bright and beautiful" ... All things dull and ugly, all creatures short and squat !
So if I say "I have a daughter. She had sex", you immediately take that to mean that I advocate paedophilia?
If I was going to pick a fictional entity to believe in, I'd like Tak, from the late great Terry Pratchett's writing.
"Tak does not require that you think of him; he only requires that you _think_"
+tSp289 If you actually thought about what you said you would actually see how disingenuos and irrational your comment about Tak actually is.
The evidence for the historical existence of the person of Jesus Christ is on a complely different level.
I don't know how many people in their latter stage of life come into a transforming powerful knowledge of Tak incomparison to Christ.
I was reading of a former Lesbian gay activist professor from syracuse university who was a stuanch feminist who opposed christianity - who after years of meticulous research in attempting to oppose the bible years later came into a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and is now a solid Christian. Please show me the same transforming power with Tak ?
Can you please show me the missionary aid workers and their ministries such as wellspring internationl etc who soley exist to serve the poor, destitute and oppressed that have been set up and funded by those who had their lives transformed by Tak as these ministries exist because of the influence of Jesus Christ in their lives?
How about some real answers instead of your fictional garbage you spew out.
lionofthetribeofjuda
It is one fictional entity over another. I do actually believe Jesus existed. I think he was a decent bloke who had a lot of clever things to say. He wasn't God though.
As for the rest... why would I need to show you any of those things? Tak is ficitonal. The point is that a deity that does not require you to worship him is inherently less divisive than one that demands your eternal obedience, the removal of independent thought and the destruction of his enemies.
Death is scary. I know. An old friend died yesterday and when that happens, the genuine reality that you are going to cease to exist takes over your mind. A drowning man will clutch at straws in the hope that they will save him. It doesn't mean he's right. For all our sakes, I hope neither of us is right. I hope there is a God, but not the God of Abraham. I hope there is a God that does not punish free thought, or who will at least forgive people for believing the wrong thing AFTER they have seen evidence of its existence.
IfI turn up at the pearly gates, I am sure I will believe it then, but according to your dogma, St. Peter will just give me a dirty look at send me off for eternal torment, regardless of how good a person I am. I don't want there to be no God, but I also don't want there to be an Abrahamic God.
***** You have obviously thought about your options and have come up with your conclusion but just like the rest of us you have many holes in your buckets. So many in fact i don't know where to start. Better start somewhere.
1. What problem do you have with the person and specifically the new testament teachings of Jesus Christ.
2. Who decides what free thought is and how far free thought can go - can we think so freely and become a radical dicatator ?
3. What happens to the young man who walked into a high school like Seung-Hui Cho, a senior at Virginia Tech, who shot and killed 32 people at The Virginia Tech shooting on April 16th 2007. Does this young man win by accomplishing his twisted selfish desire and he now becomes his own God ?
lionofthetribeofjuda
1. None, as far as I know. At least, no more than I have with the teachings of Buddha or Confucius, or any one of the many other religions that all claim a monopoly on truth.
2. Each person. That is pretty much the point. If human existence is intended to be one long penance for a sin committed by some mythical figures, and if by believing in the evidence of the physical world and the eyes we are dooming ourselves to hell for not buying into Biblical creation... then we are being expected to surrender our (God-given?) intellect and to deny that the sky is blue because some book tells us otherwise. Some book written by humans, deeply suspect for its role in the continuation of the Roman Empire by cultural domination rather than military means.
3. He died.
***** It seems to me you may be a relativist, which is the most irrational line of thought imaginable. Relativism's rainbow in the sky is disaster. If each person decides what free thought is then a Lenin a Stalin a Mao Hitlker a pol pot and a north korean maniac can be created and you have nothing to say about it. Because what is good for them is good for them and what isn't is not. This makes no sense at all only chaos.
To have faith in Christ and to have a coherent world view that fully explains sin, love, hope, justice, relationships, compassion etc and etc and etc does not mean you give up your intellect.
Quote from professor John Lennox from Oxford :
When Isaac Newton discovered the law of gravitation, he did not make the common mistake of saying: ‘now I have a law of gravity, I don’t need God’. Instead, he wrote Principia Mathematica, the most famous book in the history of science, expressing the hope that it would persuade the thinking man to believe in a Creator.
Newton could see, what sadly many people nowadays seem unable to see, that God and science are not alternative explanations.
In relation to question 3 I asked you - Thats it - Seung died - he blasted away 30 odd lives and thats it. Where is the justice for the dead or the families of the dead ?
Here is one...God did not introduce eternal suffering, Satan did. Then God made a plan to save mankind through the salvation of Jesus Christ. Satan tried tempting Jesus a number of times to try and ruin God's plan of salvation. It did not work though. Glory be to God!
If "God" does exist, and is therefore charged with guiding, directing and protecting, Humanity then I just want to know how we Humans can charge "God" with "Dereliction of Duty."
The saddest truth is that this garbage is still being debated. People aren't lying to children hard enough.
Then why do so many Creationists insist that the Earth was formed 6000 years ago?