TESLA FSD 12.3.6 WARNING - TESLA PLEASE FIX. Car wants to randomly drive.
Vložit
- čas přidán 18. 05. 2024
- I was initially filming my experience with FSD supervision. Then, I turned navigation off, and the car continued to drive on its own to random places. This should not happen. @tesla #tesla. I love Tesla, but I feel that it is dangerous. There should be something alerting the driver on what is happening.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Tester since October 2021 and it's always been that way. It tends to make right turns when a choice is required. I use to let it wander, kind of fun.
Me too however I have never had it behave this way.. Tesla’s Full Self-Driving (FSD) system is designed to navigate and make driving decisions, it should always provide the driver with clear information about its actions and intended route. The fact that the car was driving aimlessly without any navigation set and without informing you is problematic.
Safety and transparency are crucial in autonomous driving systems. If the system’s behavior was unexpected and it didn’t communicate its actions, it’s reasonable to consider this a problem, regardless of what others on social media might say. Autonomous systems should enhance safety and driver confidence, not create confusion or unpredictability.
Here are my thoughts on the matter:
1. Short-Term Alerts: Even if the system can only predict and communicate its actions a few seconds ahead due to the lack of navigation data, real-time alerts are still essential. While signaling and the blue path visualization are helpful, explicit alerts about immediate actions (e.g., “Preparing to turn right” or “Continuing straight”) could significantly enhance driver awareness and confidence.
2. Driver Engagement: Continuous engagement with the driver through short-term alerts ensures that the driver remains informed and can take control if necessary. This is particularly important in complex driving environments or unexpected situations.
3. User Expectations: Managing user expectations is crucial. Clear communication about the system’s behavior, especially in the absence of a set destination, should be included in the user manual and during system setup to help users better understand and trust the technology.
4. Feedback Mechanism: Providing a straightforward way for users to report unexpected behaviors can help Tesla refine the system and address any safety concerns promptly.Yes you can do it after the take-over but there is no way to escalate to Tesla.
5. Reverting to Standard Autopilot: Without a set destination, it would be logical for FSD to revert to a mode similar to standard Autopilot. This would involve maintaining lane position, adjusting speed based on traffic, and following the flow of traffic without making autonomous navigation decisions. This approach ensures predictability and transparency, providing a safer and more controlled driving experience.
While I understand the system’s logic when no navigation data is provided, improving real-time communication, managing user expectations, and considering a reversion to standard Autopilot mode can significantly enhance safety and the overall user experience.
I wonder if you mean when in FSD but no destination plugged into navigation. Mine does that, it randomly goes places so I now just use AutoPilot & it works fine. I haven’t paid for FSD so I’m not upset with it.
The system would constantly check if you were incapacitated. Also, it's designed to keep driving without a destination
Isn't it labeled "Supervised" ? If you give a teenager the keys to car and tell them to use it, won't they just drive around as well without any kind of destination?
As a teenager, I always had a purpose: Tower Records, Food, or even cruising the Boulevard to be seen, to name a few. :)
@jasonlynch9979 why do people think that everybody has the same experiences? Does the term joy ride mean anything?
The car continues straight ahead when on autopilot as normal when you end navigation. Push the right stalk up to turn off autopilot. User error 100%
Hi Cody... Thanks for watching..I would agree with you.. I also know how to turn the system off.. The issue I have is on both occasions the expected behavior would not be that the car randomly drives around the city on its own aimlessly making turns etc without communicating to the driver that 1. its confused, or 2 where it is going. In both cases the car took very random paths changing lanes and making turns all on its own.. I absolutely know how to turn it off but the entire point of communicating this is I do not think it's safe for a car to be driving autonomously and aimlessly without any communication to the driver. In an aircraft for example the autopilot will follow the pre-programed route OR the heading... it will not randomly fly to random places all on its own.
It doesn't seem to drive randomly, it just keep going straight until there's no option, then it makes a turn.
Nothing bad with it, just turn it off.
On cars with basic cruise control, you have to turn it on or off, if there's a wall, the car won't stop, it will still go, because that's what it does.
Now FSD drives itself to a destination when it's set, if there's not, it still drives itself, that's what it does.
I understand your point that the FSD system keeps driving straightforwardly until it has to make a decision, similar to how basic cruise control operates. However, there are a few key differences and additional considerations for FSD compared to both basic cruise control and Tesla’s standard Autopilot that I’d like to highlight:
1. Advanced Capabilities: Unlike basic cruise control, FSD is an advanced system that handles complex driving tasks, including making turns and navigating intersections. This level of autonomy requires more sophisticated communication with the driver to ensure safety and transparency.
2. Autopilot vs. FSD: Tesla’s Autopilot, when engaged, is designed to keep the car centered in its lane, maintain a set speed, and adjust based on traffic conditions. It generally doesn’t make autonomous navigation decisions like taking turns at intersections unless it’s on a highway with clear exit instructions. FSD, on the other hand, is intended to handle a wider array of driving situations, including urban environments with intersections, stop signs, and traffic lights. This complexity requires clearer communication with the driver about its actions.
3. Driver Awareness: While the car will continue driving, it’s crucial for the system to inform the driver of its intentions, especially when making turns or changing routes. This ensures the driver remains aware and can take control if needed.
4. Unexpected Behavior: The concern isn’t just about the car driving straight or making turns but about the lack of communication regarding these decisions. For example, if the FSD system takes a freeway entrance without informing the driver, it could lead to unexpected and potentially dangerous situations.
5. Safety Standards: Autonomous systems have higher safety standards than basic cruise control. Clear communication and predictable behavior are essential to meet these standards and ensure driver and passenger safety.
6. User Trust: Building and maintaining user trust is crucial for adopting autonomous systems. Ensuring the system communicates its actions and intentions clearly can help build this trust and improve the overall user experience.
While I understand the comparison to basic cruise control, the advanced nature of FSD, and its differences from standard Autopilot, require a higher level of communication and predictability to ensure safety and user confidence.
@@jasonlynch9979 "This ensures the driver remains aware and can take control if needed."
The driver is aware, and can take control anytime. That's why the nags on the steering wheel, to ensure the driver is aware of what is going on.
If you're not aware that the car is gonna drive itself the moment you turn on FSD, and is only gonna stop the moment you acknowledgedly turn it off, you shouldn't turn it on in the first place.
It is a feature, it's not a bug or anything. The fact you don't like it, doesn't make it illogical.
What is illogical to me is disengage FSD when you do something that's not related to it at all. That would be much unsafe.
Nothing supports your assumptions that any of the actions are functioning as designed. According to the Tesla Owner’s Manual, here are some key points regarding the car’s behavior when using Full Self-Driving (FSD):
1. FSD Capabilities: The manual states that FSD includes navigating intersections, stopping at traffic lights and stop signs, and handling complex driving scenarios (Owner’s Manual, page 125). These features are typically mentioned in the context of having a set destination.
2. Autopilot Features: The manual describes Autopilot features, which assist with steering within a clearly marked lane and traffic-aware cruise control. However, it does not specifically address behaviors when no destination is set (Owner’s Manual, page 109).
3. Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control: This feature will stop at all detected traffic lights and stop signs, even if no destination is set, based on road rules (Owner’s Manual, page 118).
While the manual explains that FSD can handle various driving tasks, it doesn’t explicitly mention that driving without a destination and making autonomous turns is an intended behavior. The focus is more on the system’s capabilities when a destination is set. This suggests that while the car can continue to drive without a destination, the manual does not specifically endorse this behavior as a designed feature. I am saying that 1. the system should revert to AutoPilot behavior type behavior and 2. Communicate to the driver that FSD is disengaged, or if it remains on, then communicate the intentions. Regulators are not going to want the car to be able to roam. And yes, at any time, I could have turned the system off. And did twice. All I am advocating for is a change to the software to make the experience better, safer and a higher likelihood that it passes regulatory approval.
@@jasonlynch9979
Why revert to AutoPilot changes anything?
@@jasonlynch9979
How does reverting to AutoPilot makes it safer?
Looks rational to me.
What would a human do ?
Hi John.. As you can see from the video, the car still needs to make good human decisions..(Making a left turn where there is no road) at some point. Maybe it will (I hope so). Keep in mind the car does not think humans make rational decisions as well (IE, steering wheel nag, and even when that goes away, the system will need to see your eyes for that to work, etc. ) Here are my thoughts on what a human driver might do differently and why this matters:
1. Communication and Intention: A human driver constantly communicates their intentions, either verbally or through predictable actions like using turn signals well in advance. Similarly, the FSD system should provide clear and timely alerts about its actions to keep the driver informed.
2. Predictability: A human driver typically follows a logical and predictable path, especially when navigating without a specific destination. They are less likely to take unexpected turns or drive aimlessly. The FSD system should strive for similar predictability to ensure safety and maintain driver trust.
3. Adaptability: Humans can quickly adapt to changing conditions and provide immediate feedback on their intentions. While the FSD system is designed to make autonomous decisions, it needs to communicate these decisions effectively to allow the driver to supervise and intervene when necessary.
4. Safety: Human drivers rely on their judgment and awareness of the surroundings to make safe decisions. The FSD system, while advanced, should prioritize clear communication and predictable behavior to ensure the driver can maintain oversight and intervene if needed.
I use FSD without navigation direction. I just signal and the car does the rest with no issue. Dont see the issue here….
The issue is the car was navigating itself to an unknown destination. Making turns etc on its own, whereby the driver has no idea where the car is trying to go to.
@@jasonlynch9979 what you call a problem is actually a normal operation designed to work that way. Imagine u r driving on a highway going 80mph and by mistake you cancel your navigation trip, do you want the car to come into a complete stop on the highway?
I really dont see the problem here just as the rest of ppl on the comment section. If I dont want the car to drive without a route just turn FSD off…
You as the driver understand that the car will continue driving without a destination (this is something u r making it a problem) therefore the only option are to simply turn it off, use signals, or input a destination.
@@MichaelCena08 Hi Michael, There are a couple of issues. 1. In your use case if I turn NAV off on the free then the functions of basic autopilot come into play., cruise, lane keep etc, all function. Imagine however in that the car decided to exit the freeway without notifying you. Thats what perked my interest in this.. when I turned off the nav the car continued to the stop sign. Normal AP would have just stoped. Instead the car decided to turn right and take me for an 8 mile drive without any notification to where it was taking me. Yes I could have stoped it at any time and I felt safe but the second issue from a safety perspective is there was no communication from the car to the driver of what the cars intentions were as it was deciding to drive and make navigation decisions on its own, and also I don’t think this should be expected behavior. It is not normal operations for a car do drive aimlessly. Just like in an aircraft you cant just push the Auto Pilot button and allow the plane to randomly navigate wherever it wants to go. You as the pilot need to give the aircraft instructions, heading, waypoints, etc. That is all I am saying here as well. The car should not be able to just pointlessly drive to an unknown destination forever. If you don’t want to have a route then that is fine.. then the car is using lane keep and cruise etc.. But its not navigating on its own to someplace its not telling you.. This is beta software and I think there is an opportunity to improve if this is a function that is intended. If it’s not known if it is intended behavior or not then I believe there could be a potential safety risk of not knowing how the system works. I think Tesla can do better.. and I actually see some potential positive use cases as I stated in the video.. but those are not current design considerations.
Wow using FSD without Navigation I never thought about that. I don't like it when the car changes lanes so much and sometimes in the wrong lane I'm going to try FSD without Navigation.
Thanks learned something new and very useful
As designed. Kinda embarrassing yourself here friend.
Hi ..thanks for your comment…can you explain the design process of the car randomly navigating to nowhere?
What did you expect would happen?
Here are my thoughts on the matter:
1. Short-Term Alerts: Even if the system can only predict and communicate its actions a few seconds ahead due to the lack of navigation data, real-time alerts are still essential. While signaling and the blue path visualization are helpful, explicit alerts about immediate actions (e.g., “Preparing to turn right” or “Continuing straight”) could significantly enhance driver awareness and confidence.
2. Driver Engagement: Continuous engagement with the driver through short-term alerts ensures that the driver remains informed and can take control if necessary. This is particularly important in complex driving environments or unexpected situations.
3. User Expectations: Managing user expectations is crucial. Clear communication about the system’s behavior, especially in the absence of a set destination, should be included in the user manual and during system setup to help users better understand and trust the technology.
4. Feedback Mechanism: Providing a straightforward way for users to report unexpected behaviors can help Tesla refine the system and address any safety concerns promptly.
5. Reverting to Standard Autopilot: Without a set destination, it would be logical for FSD to revert to a mode similar to standard Autopilot. This would involve maintaining lane position, adjusting speed based on traffic, and following the flow of traffic without making autonomous navigation decisions. This approach ensures predictability and transparency, providing a safer and more controlled driving experience.
While I understand the system’s logic when no navigation data is provided, improving real-time communication, managing user expectations, and considering a reversion to standard Autopilot mode can significantly enhance safety and the overall user experience.
@@jasonlynch9979 I'm sorry, but this sounds like something that mainly applies to you. I don't feel this and this would annoy me more. I understand the current model and have no issues with how it operates
@@davem45 thanks Dave but the broader concern is around regulation approval..self wander mode will not fly. I want FSD to be successful …the car is going to need a destination for FSD to be active or revert to basic autopilot functions without. And if we think wandering aimlessly is a feature then fine but notify the driver of intention and give the driver the opportunity to settings to turn driving aimlessly off.
@@jasonlynch9979 I'll respectfully disagree, FSD without direction is no less safer than with direction.
I believe this is an edge case as 99% of people using FSD wouldn't use it without navigation set.
There are times where I am on the interstate for more than 45miles and I may not agree with the navigation directions so I'll cancel the navigation but allow it to continue to drive.
There isn't a situation where this poses a danger to you or anyone else. It's the car making decisions as it needs to as there isn't a set place
@@davem45 Great point. But if you cancel the navigation, the car will function like AutoPilot, which I am fine with. However, imagine that exact scenario and the car decides to take a random exit without any reason. That's the strange thing. Tesla states there are two modes: AutoPilot, which will work without a destination, and FSD, which will take you from the beginning to the end of a planned trip. There is a reference to FSD without a Nav destination. It says that the car will take you to a frequent location (Ie, I go to the coffee shop at 8am every morning, and it's 8am, the car may take me there. I have not tested that, but there is a reference to that in the owners manual) In my case, none of that happened. So, the behavior I experienced was unexpected. Which I believe could be made better.
lol you just played yourself
I do not understand the reasoning behind your comment.
@@jasonlynch9979 Read the comments this is 100% user error. If you don't want it on your turn it off. Saying its just RANDOMLY driving around is not true, YOU turned it on, this is what its designed to do and if you don't want it to drive then turn it OFF... simple.
@@TheTReed78 I do not think you are seeing the big picture. I want FSD to be successful; however, I have concerns about the current state of the system that I believe regulators would also find troubling:
1. Driver Communication: Regulators typically require that drivers be fully informed about autonomous systems' actions and intentions. The lack of clear communication and alerts about the vehicle’s actions could be seen as a safety risk.
2. Predictability and Control: Autonomous systems need to be predictable and allow drivers to take control easily. If the FSD system makes autonomous decisions without clear communication or predictability, it could undermine the driver’s ability to maintain control.
3. Safety Standards: Regulators have stringent safety standards for autonomous driving systems. Unpredictable behavior or insufficient driver alerts could be considered noncompliant.
4. Liability Issues: In the event of an incident, unclear communication from the FSD system about its actions could complicate determining liability. This lack of clarity might concern regulators who focus on accountability and safety.
5. User Trust and Adoption: Autonomous systems need to be trustworthy for widespread adoption. Any behavior that erodes driver confidence might attract regulatory scrutiny to ensure the technology is reliable and safe for public use.
While I understand the system’s logic when no navigation data is provided, improving real-time communication, managing user expectations, and considering a reversion to standard Autopilot mode can significantly enhance safety and the overall user experience. Addressing these points will benefit all users and align with regulatory expectations.
@@jasonlynch9979did you just copy paste that from consumer reports? Lol that has no bearing on anything in this video. It’s performing exactly how it should be, 100% driver error , the sw isn’t perfect and that’s why you need to be paying attention fully at all times, this is what you signed on for. This is essentially still a beta. Again YOU decide if it’s on or off, doesn’t matter for a moment if it takes you somewhere you don’t want to go.. do you understand this?
@@TheTReed78@TheTReed78 I don't understand your inability to have a constructive conversation. Why are you so salty? We obviously have a difference of opinion, and that is fine. I understand that you believe the FSD system works as designed and that driver attention is paramount. However, my concern isn’t about whether the system is in beta or needs driver attention-it’s about ensuring the system provides clear communication and maintains predictability, which is critical for safety. Here are my key points:
1. Driver Communication: Clear and timely alerts about the vehicle’s actions are essential. Even if FSD is engaged without a navigation destination, the system should provide the driver with more explicit information about its intended actions to avoid confusion and ensure safety.
2. Predictability and Control: An autonomous system must be predictable for it to be safe. If the car makes autonomous decisions without informing the driver, it can lead to unexpected and potentially dangerous situations.
3. Regulatory Compliance: Autonomous systems are subject to regulatory scrutiny to ensure they meet safety standards. Lack of clear communication and predictability could be seen as non-compliance with these standards.
4. Beta Software: While the system is in beta, identifying and addressing potential safety issues is even more crucial. User feedback is vital to improve the system and ensure it evolves to meet safety requirements.
I appreciate the importance of driver attention and control, but improving communication and predictability will enhance the overall safety and user experience of the FSD system and hopefully ensure its success. .The entire video is about the car driving on its own and yes.. I see potential problems with the car behaving in that way.