Building a Custom E-Mountain Bike Frame (Part 3) with Paul Brodie - Framebuilding 101
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2024
- Sometimes projects are a challenge that test the creator in various ways, but there can be a sense of satisfaction when it all comes together. This electric MTB was one such project. This is part 3 of the custom e-mountain bike build. We attach the seat stays, braze on's, and ream the seat tube 🤓🏁
► Watch Part 1 here: • Building a Custom E-Mo...
► Watch Part 2 here: • Building a Custom E-Mo...
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#ebike #electric #custom #fussyframebuilder
The main thing I learned from this series: simple tools and a good brain make for great bikes 👍👍
don't forget perseverance!
Without that you shouldn't even think about (re)building bikes ;-)
And to flip that around, a great brain and a simple bike makes for a good tool.
Simple tools? This guy has a lot of skill, but also a lot of expensive equipment.
This is NOT a cheap hobby! Building anything mechanical completely from scratch is not trivial, nor is it "simple". It's an enormous amount of work, and the tools and equipment needed to do it are not cheap!
This man right here builds the most beautiful frames hands down...#respect
Thank you.
Was fortunate to ride for brodie in the early-mid 90's until early 2000's and Paul is an amazing chap, and super fun to trials with! Thank you Paul, your craft is an amazing one and being a huge e-mtb rider now, that looks incredible!! Thanks for sharing, enjoy the ride!!!
thank you Dave!
I really enjoy, and I mean I really find it so fascinating how calm, composed, and just how well each step is taken. You do not seem to have ANY wasted motion. Everything you do is a step, or next step to something else. Amazing teaching skills and craftsmanship. And it shows. Thanks for putting out videos and allowing us to see your planned steps.
J.
Thank you for your kind words. I have been making things out of metal for 53 years now...
@@paulbrodie A craftsman and an artist! I bet plenty of people will enjoy these vids and watching you work :)
I just found this video series but I must say WOW! I have riden all type of bikes I now ride a Road Bike and I am thinking of building an electric bike but I didn't know how great you guys are that build these frames I am so amazed by your workmanship, demeanor, the detail (imagine a rock in the tube). Man if CZcams start giving out awards I will surely nominate this video. Thank you! I know understand why feel the way I feel about my bike.
Nice comments, Hayden. Thanks for watching!
I can't imagine how the uni student was going to do all this without Saint Paul's amazing knowledge and assistance :)
You are probably correct!
The jigs and fixtures that you have fabricated and the way you use them are extremely educating. I feel that the approach can be applied elsewhere. Thank you for your inspiration and opening my eyes!
Thanks Robert. I use common sense to design jigs and fixtures. The simplest solution is often the best solution.
I stopped frame building a dozen years ago. It was a hobby, nothing more satisfying than to win a championship on your own frame. Paul is an awesome teacher and brilliant engineer, great fixtures , great technique. All my machining was by hand. So sweet to see what you can do with a mill and investment in the metal for fixtures. I still love the art, but tired of steel splinters in my hands.
I got inspired building my own frame. Are you willing to support me a little answering some specific questions? Thx
Hi Paul, happy new year !
I watched all three parts, and I must say, you are one helluva champion.
Thank you Willy! And I wish you a Happy New Year too...
I loved this series! I'd love to see a video on different types of brazing rods and perferred applications for each, in regards to framebuilding. This would be very informative for someone like me, just starting out.
Came across your channel my accident, so glad I did, and then realised you was the man behind Brodie bikes. I always idolised your freeride bikes back in the mid 2000s. Do you still have much to do with the brand now?
No, I exited back in 2001 about. I wrote a book all about it. Thanks for watching!
@@paulbrodie Oh wow, I'll have to take a look. I reconised the gearbox bike you have on the wall that gave it away to me. Keep up the awesome videos
Now I want to build a bike !!
..
I'm a retired master pipefitter from the petroleum and liquefied gasses field.
I've worked on everything from military helicopters to IHRA ProMods.
..
I've built MANY 1/10th scale tube chassis and I fishmouth tiny tubes and rods as small al 1/8".
Timothy, I think you should build a bike! You have experience. Thanks for watching.
@@paulbrodie
Paul... next time your fitting tubes please tell everyone WHY the fit is so critical.
ALL welds shrink, it's why heat treatment (stress relief) is needed.
@@timothywalsh1001 Heat treatment isn't needed because all welds shrink, heat treatment is needed to bring the aluminum back up to T6 from T0.
@@paulbrodie
I've got almost no experience welding aluminum. Most is in stainless (304/316) mild steel pipe and 4130 cro-mo thick wall tube. ( .060-.134 )
...
"IF" I build, it's going to be a velomobile... or an electric Cyclecar.
My friend wants me to build an Ebike that's BASIC. Mine scares them as it's too fast.
..
BTW, I'm a bike "flipper". Currently have 25+ BMX, MTN and a few cruisers.
>> I can't stand disposable bikes. Also to a degree those who trash them. Most only have 1 or 2 issues.
> yes... I ❤️ the fact that my grandfather taught me how to fix everything.
-Gadget
@@timothywalsh1001 I found learning to Tig aluminum was harder than learning how to weld steel.
Watching these videos is better than meditation!
That sounds like a testimonial.. Thanks for watching!
Awesome video. True craftsman.
Thanks Mate!
Thanks for the lessons! Thank Mitch also.
You look like a nice and honest craftsman. It's a pleasure to watch your whole videos. Hope one day I get to your workshop and shake hands. Cheers!
I would like to shake hands but we have to wait until we have a handle on Covid. All the best.
Wonderful work, you're quite a craftsman!
Thank you.
@@paulbrodie You're welcome :)
There are loads of clever little tricks and ideas in here. Combine that with your generous and warm way of commentating means all your videos are so nice to sit back and watch when I'm on a lunchbreak in the workshop. Thanks for putting them together. Would you consider a subsciption fee to avoid all the terrible irrelevant youtube adverts? I hate adverts and would happily pay to view.
There is CZcams Premium, that you pay for with no ads. There are also blockers, but then we lose income. Tough choices. Thanks for watching!
Wow this is building Bikes on a different level. 👍
Yes, thanks. I do my best.
Add a crossbar on the underside of the seatstay jig to align the seatstays easier.
A peice of modelling clay in a square shape can help mark the press bend depth, awesome rear section build.
Great three part series! learned a lot, thank you. Much love from Australia
Thank you Carl!
I really enjoy watching this build :)
Awesome Series. Great Teacher. Can we just get a snap of the completely built bike? Hell a quick ride would be neat too.
Thank you. Sorry, no pics of the completed bike. I was building the frame for an engineering student, for his thesis, and he was building the whole bike for his sponsor. As soon as the frame was finished it left my shop, and I am not in contact with his "sponsor". Sorry.
I just watched this series; what I wonder is, how much did the engineer learn about designing by watching you put his drawings into the real world? In many ways, the one doing the thesis is you.
No, I was just the fabricator. The engineer and I never sat down, had a coffee, and discussed what he had learned from me making the frame. I don't feel like I was the one doing the thesis. I was just the fabricator...
Thanks for these videos; the series is inspiring me to make my own bike frame.
Just found your comment after 2 months... How's your frame coming?
I had given a bit of thought to building a frame but after watching you I'm completely discouraged. I'd need another couple thousand dollars in tools on top of what I already have, and I have to shortage of tools and machinery. I am in awe of what you make look easy. Thanks for putting that out. I have a bike I made from an old Mixti frame that I put a Bafang mid drive motor kit on. I love it. Way too fun. I have built a Lotus 7 sports car from scratch too. From a book , not a kit.
Wayne, don't be discouraged. Think of it as a learning experience. When I built my first bicycle fork, I made the fixture out of wood, I had no Tig, so the heat of the oxy-acetylene caused the fixture to catch on fire. I still made the fork. You can build a frame with only hand tools, you do not have to spend a lot if you are resourceful. That can be a part of the challenge.
@@paulbrodie thanks. I love your mill, by the way. What a wonderful machine. I have a Chinese gear head bench model.
Interesting SS fixture. What is the reasoning for the adjustability? Mine is 3'x1"sq tool steel that Chris King made me. I use it for so much. Do BB and ST alignment ck, quick frame twist CK as well as bridges, canti boss, binders CS and CS spacing using a variety of fixtures that slide to clamp onto it. Can even do some cold setting with it.
I love all the different ways to fixture and get er done. Builders and wannabees these days have such a great resource on the net. Good job putting these videos out there.
It's adjustable so it can be setup to be very accurate. Once set, unless it falls off a bench or something silly, you shouldn't have to touch it again...
Thank you so much for this channel, I found it very interesting.
Got my sub ! Excellent series sir !! I watch a lot machinist and fabrication videos and I've never seen anything like this on CZcams !!!
I'm actually amazed that I've never seen you before !!!!
I keep a low profile. Thanks for watching!
My in-process build is looking to be about 3.5 - 4 k, with medium-grade components, e.g. XT hubs, Tektro 4 pot brakes, 25+ amp-hour battery, and a used frame for 75$. The first bike was stolen last March - the chain was cut.
A non-fancy frame may well be 1-3 k added if you have it built. If you have many of the tools, and don’t mind practicing on scrapped steel frames - and can rent/borrow the special tools needed - it will be less. (Not nearly as well-equipped as Paul, but I have a fair number.)
I love the CAD design (cardboard aided design)
Wow, awesome.. 🙌🏻
Just like having a 3D modeling software + CNC machine in a form of a human. 👏🏻
What can I say, I just like #makingstuff. Thanks for watching!
Looks like a nice frame, are you building a complete bicycle from it?
Love your video's, grtz from the Netherlands
It was never my frame. I was helping out a young engineering student with this project so he could complete his thesis. And, it wasn't even his frame: it went to his sponsor as soon as I finished it. Apparently he is riding and liking it. Thanks for watching!
Hey. Did you get this finished ? Why not full suspension?
Great skills sir . Much respect!
The frame was whisked away when finished... I was helping an engineering student complete his thesis, and he was building it for his sponsor, so sorry, no finished bike photos. I did not design the frame: rear suspension would have added a LOT of complexity. Thanks for watching!
NIce work! And is grate you help a student
Thank you Razvan.
Im wondering how much a frame like this would Cost to make, cuss i really would wanna build a bike with a Bosch motor and dual battery setup like this,
I would guess it depends on the builder, the level of complexity, materials, and hours spent. Wouldn't be hard at all to get up to $10K or more...
Didn’t quite see it, but were there any allowances for the breaking system. There were lugs for the cables on the too tube but what about the brakes? V-brakes? Disc brake bracket etc. how waa the battery routed to the “Bosch” motor/cranks? Great watching you work. A true master.
In part 1 you gave the weight of various parts such as the motor bracket, down tube and batteries. I was hoping that at the end, you would give a weight of the completed frame.
Also, I was hoping that the comments would have a link to the completed bike.
Yes we should have weighed the completed frame, but neither Mitch nor myself can remember that happening. I was helping out a student with a University project, and the day the frame was completed it left my shop. The sponsor of the project now has it, and he did send one very bad photo of the complete bike. At this stage I do not feel I can bother him for more. Sorry.
That frame would be kick ass if it was rear suspension as well.
It's already pretty kickass, and remember that a rear-suspension frame is heavier. It's a nice feature for an ebike if it works well, but it always adds weight and ebikes are already heavier than normal ones.
@@devilsoffspring5519
A long travel fat bike, say 200 mm travel, would be unique. Missed opportunity IMO.
Plus this is an engineering students design project. Talking wheel travel, leverage curves, ground clearance makes things interesting.
Thanks for sharing and great to follow along the build. Question from a dude fairly new to welding; what's the main benefits of brazing over tig in this scenario?
Welding the plates next to the head tube: this is "butt welding" and Tig is better because there is no place for the braze to flow into. Braze needs a 1/8" shoulder for it to flow into to get strength. Make sense? Because Tig is fusion welding it is fine for joining 2 plates together, end to end. If I have to get into a very small space, sometimes the Tig torch is too big, so oxy-acetylene makes it easier to get into that small space. Hope this helps. Thanks for watching! 😉
@@paulbrodie thank you for the elaborate answer. Love your educational approach and fine craftsmanship. Wish you a successful treatment and recovery. All the best from Sweden.
A beautiful frame! I would love to know what camera and lens Mitch uses? I’ve never seen anything out of focus, great camera work Mitch! Cheers julian
Thanks Julian.
Hi Julian, these older videos were shot on my iPhone 11. I have since picked up a Fujifilm XT4 then I use along with my iPhone.
Why some joint you applied TIG weld and some joint brazing ? Nice bike and nice custom tool.
You are not the first person to ask that; probably the chain stay bridge tube you are talking about? It's such a small space it is very hard to get the Tig torch in there, so if I nickel silver the bridge tube, I can do it cleaner and faster.
Why is part of the frame tigged and part brazed? How do you decide what joining process to use? Also, were these TIG tacks ahead of brazing the tubes? Thanks for the series, immensely interesting!
This is a generalization: Tig is faster, but sometimes the Tig torch is too big to fit into small spaces, so then I braze.
Great videos. I see so many interesting things in your shop. Have you done a shop tour in one of your videos?
Thank you David. No, we have not done a shop tour and you are not the first viewer to ask... Perhaps sometime soon ?!
if you make internal cable , will be better 👍👍
Have you tried using an oxy acetylene jewelers torch? I find it a lot easier to control the braze joints
I have not. Not sure if it would be hot enough for a bicycle frame?
Great series, a pitty you didn’t show the final assembled bike
It was taken away and assembled elsewhere. I now have a couple of photos. Email me and I will send you pics.
Awesome
Thanks for watching!
I'm eager to see the bike finished - will there be a video on that? I love the content :)
Sorry, the frame left my shop the day after it was finished. And I am not in touch with the owner, soother are no photos or video of the finished bike. Sorry.
Just found the series. This frame is going to be as beautiful as it's going to be heavy.
You are correct. But, all e-bikes are heavy with the weight of the battery.. 😉
Paul Brodie what an absolute legend! Mad skills. Amazing to watch a master crafting a one of a kind. Just a heads up, the subtitles are humorously inaccurate...
I thoroughly enjoyed watching the process, thanks for sharing your "random knowledge". Subbed & notifications on.
I think I heard Mitch say that the subtitles go through 2 translations, so they will not be perfect. Better than nothing? Thanks for watching!
Why do you sometimes weld a joint and others you braze a joint? I only braze something when it is dissimilar metals or perhaps cast iron.
What about a short video about the finished bike?
It's nice to have a choice between welding and brazing. Sometimes it's just how I feel. It depends on thickness of materials sometimes. Sometimes access is the deciding factor. I have never seen the finished bike. The frame left my shop the day it was finished. It was never my bike. I was just helping out. Thanks for watching.
Lets see the motorcycle stuff😀
Yes Sir.
How does your cameraman add the welding filters to the shots?
He uses a brazing filter. Neat, eh?
Really interesting video series only let down by distracting background music. Not needed, your content is interesting enough as it is!
Old video. We don't do that so much anymore. Thanks for watching.
I want to be like you when I grow up
Very nice comment, thank you. You do know that the grass always looks greener on the other side..
hey Paul! what happened to this? was it ever built? can you do a follow up?
This design and concept was done by a young engineering student. I was just helping out so that he could complete his thesis. It wasn't even his bike; it was for his "sponsor", so as soon as the frame was completed it left my shop, got built up, and was handed over to the owner, whom I have no contact with. Apparently it rides just fine and is being used :)
Love the bike design czcams.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L and functionality. It is hard to align the front tired to center the disk brakes. The brake wheel touches the stationery side of the brake caliper and pad. I aired the tire up to 40 psi as the markings say 40-60psi. Left the house for a few hours and came back to an exploded innertube.All in all it seems to be a good bike. Have not ridden it yet though so that's the max of my knowledge. Update, put a new innertube made sure the tire was set properly and it did the same thing in under 20 minutes as second pic shows.
A bicycle shop would be the obvious place to start...
The last bike you would ever find me riding. Just saying.
Do you drill a drain hole for the seat tube as you do with a regular bottom bracket?
Yes I did.
What the flux! 😳
Why brasing instead of tig welding it all? Is it because of the warping effects?
Sometimes Tig welding is easier and more suitable than Brazing. And sometimes brazing is a better solution. It depends on the application, the strength required, ease of access, and other factors. Braze and Tig both pull, so that has to be factored in when building. Make sense?
@paul brodie it does.thank you sir.
genius
loving your videos! question: would it be ill advised to braze the tubing to the Bosch motor mount? I'd like to get into frame modification, like adding e-bike motor mounts to existing frames, and am wondering if brazing would be alright, or if TIG is necessary. It sounds like brazing would be fine?
Thanks for liking our videos. Brazing "could" work with a Bosch mount, but the casting is about 6mm thick and so it will take a very large flame to get it up to temperature, and if the tubes aren't as thick it would be easy to overheat them. You would need good brazing skills and be very careful.
@@paulbrodie ah! that makes sense, thanks Paul. I'll have to work on my non-existent brazing skills before any such attempt :-).
Is there a way to contact Paul? He inspired me to build a frame and have specific questions...thx
I believe my email address is somewhere in the description under the video 😉
Paul, Why do you use that welding? what are the pros and cons vs mig?
Fillet brazing can be very beautiful, showing the artistry. Mig is production, crude in comparison, and is unsuited for thin wall bicycle tubing.
Is there a follow up, somewhere, on the finished bike?
Sorry, no. It was never my bike. I helped a young engineering student with the frame for his thesis, and then it went to his sponsor.
What would i have to pay for such a masterpiece..maybe with suspension?
I have no idea. First you would have to find a fabricator. I am retired and have a full time job known as CZcams. Sorry.
@@paulbrodie Mr. Brodie , knowing your builds for i guess 35 years and noticed them vanish out of magazines and out of the spotlight i presumed you retired somehow. I remember in mountainbike magazine someday i saw a frame with a bottleopener welded onto it and i was curious who on earth would scrath that paintwork while opening a beer...even someone like me coming from Germany where beer is all around had a hardtime understanding that🙂
My question was just out of curiosity, by no means would i try to lure you out of your retirement. The ebike fully I own is handbuild too ,but a frame handbuild exactly to my specs would be next level..i am certainly not able to pay for that unless i would sell my kidney and my wife strictly vorbid me doing silly stuff but i would be nice to know...
@@evemaniac Well, I am retired but I have a full time job known as CZcams. I don't make bikes or frames for customers anymore, sorry. I did vanish from the bicycle world and was focussed on antique motorcycles, including the Excelsior project. Then I wrote a book, and taught Framebuilding 101 for almost a decade. Life has been full. Thanks for commenting.
Why do you tig the main frame, but braze the rear triangle?
Tig is faster, but sometimes it's hard to get Tig torch into small spaces, so then it's easier to braze.
@@paulbrodie thanks for the info! Makes sense
Why TIG Vs Brazing, and how do you decide which to use?
If the Tig torch won't fit into a very small space, that's when I use oxy-acetylene. This is just one example of how I decide which method I will use.
Why was the bridge braised and not welded?
Too hard to get the Tig torch into that small space.
No issues with assembly for me czcams.com/users/postUgkxHL1v1R3NE5x4KiYfyt8dnQmyNYz7qi5L but I could see where some might benefit from using an experienced bike assembler/mechanic. I'm an older rider starting back after a 10 year break. This bike exceeds my capabilities and has been easy to get comfortable riding. I'm mostly on easy trails with almost no street riding and have not been disappointed with the performance of the bike. My fitness level is far below what I previously rode with and because of that the mileage is going on the bike slowly. While I'm losing weight slowly, the bike seems to tolerate my 220 pounds just fine. The bike has been used by several family members ranging from 5'5" - 5'9".
Yes, it is possible..
@23:42 Agreed 😉
modern downtube 2020 style and than round topbar with cables on top like it is 1995 ouch . dont get me wrong it is a pretty well done job but its just not how a modern bike should look anymore
You're generalizing things, which are a matter of personal taste (and quite obviously, not your expertise). This is a very egocentric and narrow minded point of view,...and..."don't get me wrong",...a testament to your character. Combining traditional crafting methods with modern technology is a design element in itself. It's called retromodernism. It is a personal trademark for some very popular craftsman and it is a style that is appreciated by many people, who are willing to pay top dollar for it. If you don't like it, stay with hydro formed aluminum tubes and carbon fiber, but don't go around and tell people how something should, or should not look like.
Well written. Thank you!
Beautiful work! I'm sure those joints joining the seatstays to the seat tube are strong enough but are they as strong as the tubing? 1.6mm Cromoly and 0.049" I think you might have said for the stay are incredibly strong, about twice the wall thickness of a normal bike frame. Can a brazed joint like that be as strong as a TIG weld?
Nickel silvering the stays to the seat tube. You have to remember the forces are in compression. In all my years and over 4000 frames, I have never seen one fail. Ever.
@@paulbrodie Thanks for replying. I'm sure they never failed, I'm just thinking on a more theoretical level. I looked it up and nickel silver has an ultimate tensile strength that is about the same as Cromoly. I never realized brazing metal could be that strong! Am absolutely loving your videos.
have video of the project ready?
He said several times that the frame left the shop the next day, and isn't in contact with the owner. Bummer, I know.
That jigging is beautiful!
👍
Why don’t tig weld the seat stays also? Thanks!
Because my seat stays are slightly proud (raised) above the seat tube and squared off. When I nickel silver them, if I am careful, I can still see the shape of those edges, and that is part of the artistry of the frame. If I Tig welded them it would just be an arc. Plus, it's very difficult to Tig weld in between the seat stays; there's very little room.
👍👌
Did you expand that reamer?
This video was made months ago; it's hard to remember. The seat post did fit the seat tube, so if that's what we're talking about, I guess the reamer got expanded. Thanks for watching!
What’s the main reason to have a chain stay bridge with a “shell” that beefy
The customer desired to have one.
Why is there only 3 parts the bikes not finished ??
It was never my bike. I was helping a young engineering student finish the frame for his thesis. And the bike wasn't even his; it went to his sponsor. The bike is being ridden but I do not have any photos, sorry.
How does the finished bike does look like?? :)
It looks good but I do not have photos because it was built up after the frame left my shop..
@@paulbrodie you've done a significant part of this build. I just wanted to see how everything comes together :)
Don’t we get to see the finished bike
I did finally get a photo of the finished bike months after the frame left my shop. Far too late to get into the video. That's what happened.
i hear peafowl!
peacocks!
Really like your seatstay jig @ czcams.com/video/oG6DITcSvMY/video.html; that is the best I have seen for milling so far!
You have made a fantastic tutorial and ruined with the constant background music. It adds nothing. Please please it is not needed. What is wrong with quiet.
I just passed by the e-mountainbike series and I am asking myself, if there is a possibility to see the result of the finished bike? Maybe the student has documented the final assembly?
I might have been sent the final photo, but I am not sure after all this time... I would have to search!
@@paulbrodie thank you for answering…if there’s no photo of the finished bike, further interesting projects will be coming I’m sure👍🏻😃