Does It Even Matter?
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- čas přidán 10. 05. 2024
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Chapters:
00:00 - A lot of confusion?
01:09 - AMD vs NVIDIA, as in the company
02:11 - The Closed Source issue on Linux
03:21 - Comparing the experience
04:24 - The Wayland debacle
05:12 - Development
05:39 - Where NVIDIA is just plain better
08:16 - Which GPU should YOU choose?
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Description Tags:
amd vs nvidia, amd vs nividia 2023, amd vs nvidia linux, amd vs nvidia on Linux, amd or nvidia for davinci resolve, amd vs nvidia linux gaming, amd vs nvidia gpu, nvidia wayland, nvidia wayland 2023, nvidia wayland vrr, amd or nvidia on linux, gpu comparison 2023, best graphics card for linux, michael horn
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#linux #nvidia #amd - Hry
I choose the blue pill: intel integrated graphics
objectively the best choice
Oh boy ..... they work most of the time 🙂
No, in all seriousness, the drivers themselves are pretty great, however not every application supports Intel (officially). That's something that is not Linux exclusive though
intel arc be like
@@MichaelNROHIt would be helpful to do a video for us to know the status on Intel Arc GPU on Linux, should I buy Arc or wait? And what's the status on Arc in the Linux community.
@@MichaelNROH Absolutely, especially on laptops, where you have to just accept bad power management with Nvidia chips, or mostly a lack of good AMD alternatives. Everything from core 2 duo witn intel iGPUs worked flawlessly for me. After having a bad experience with Quadro graphics, I completely gave up, and returned back to my old trusty X230 with HD 4000, which is good enough for some occasional graphics things I do. I hear people say that Nvidia has gotten better, but they talk about newer cards, which aren't in reach of us using older hardware (which should be one point of using Linux).
I recently upgraded from a GTX970 to an RX7600 and I thought that the driver experience would be better... I was wrong lmao.
I find it can vary literally from GPU model to model. For a long time I could not get my RX 570 GB to even boot into the desktop. Black screen with no feedback.
Then all of a sudden it worked again months later.
On the Nvidia my GTX 1070 AMP Extreme is a stuttering mess of late but a much lower spec'd GTX 1650 runs far better.
And on my main machine I have an RX 5600XT which mostly runs without any issues. It is all over the place.
Although the only distro I have used where OpenCL on AMD worked flawlessly was PCLinuxOS.
One thing I always struggled with before I got an AMD gpu was screen tearing on X11. My monitors have different refresh rates and on my Nvidia gpu I'd get horrendous screen tearing for almost anything I did. The only workaround was to simply set both monitors to 60Hz, a problem that disappeared on AMD for me even om X11.
The only time amd has been worse for me was what was mentioned in this video though. I needed OpenCL support and could not get it to work right even after a lot of tinkering
For me, enabling "Force Full Composition Pipeline" in the Nvidia X Server Settings fixed the screen tearing issue.
@@manolol1119 Thank you! You helped me fix my tearing issue, I only have a single 144hz display (laptop) but it's always torn or stuttered even though I had no issues in windows. But checking that one little box fixed it all for me, so thank you m8.
@@manolol1119 When I do this I notice a lot higher latency if you are trying to run a game and in general the games don't feel right no matter what I do unless I unplug the second monitor.
@@synkstar9921
I've heard about that issue with the higher latency as well, but I have never noticed it myself. Do your monitors have different refresh rates?
I agree, amd gets support for games first but in the end it doesnt matter. I just hate this discussion because if you recommend nvidia to anyone you get downvoted into oblivion or you get trash talked badly. If you want easy negative karma just say "nvidia isnt bad" on the linux gaming subreddit.
I've only had 1 issue with Nvidia ever and that was trying Fedora out, don't have AMD graphics unfortunately. I see nothing wrong with either, get whatever you can afford.
Well thats because nvidia is pretty awful. AMD aint a saint either but Nvidia is pretty measurably worse. In terms of product experience they're similar sure, but in terms of the actual companies Nvidia is pretty bad. If you don't care thats entirely your choice (unlike some european politicians I don't think I have a right to push my software/hardware values onto others) but they are pretty terrible as a company.
because it is bad, if given a choice, choosing nvidia is shooting yourself in the foot
Well, the reason for that is pretty obvious: Nvidia is a bad recommendation specifically for linux gaming. AMD usually costs less at the same performance tier, AMD doesn't require you to deal with drivers and AMD is what Valve put in the Steamdeck which basically makes it the default now for gaming on linux. So when you say "nvidia isn't bad" in the linux -->_GAMING_
My experience with both ( Upgraded from a 2070 super to a 6700 xt) was that for my needs as someone who mainly plays Games - and uses the steam gamescope-session - AMD ended Up beeing a better choice. But I keep an eye on the Progress for NVK for Nvidia
Great info, thanks for this
Well if you update your graphics card regularly I can see that both brands work. But if we are using an old nvidia gpu for longer than 10 years we will not be able to boot the computer (or use the dedicated gpu) because nvidia does not seem to offer more support than that (a workaround would be staying in a older kernel, but that has its own disadvantages). So if one is planning for a more long term use of the gpu I would say that AMD is the best option, because the drivers are builtin in the kernel (and linux rarely drops supports for older hardware).
HD graphics have joined the chat
to be fair, these people wouldn't need any perfomant gpu anyway otherwise they couldn't run it for 10years+ and thus they probably don't even ask that question and just stay with an iGPU or a low budget one
Great videos! Keep up the good work! 👍
Hey man, as always great video. Just wanted to share my prespective on using multiple nvidia gpus generations on linux.
1. Nvidia situation on laptop is horrible, few a resons as follows:
1.a Poor/Lack of gpu power managent on linux.
1.b On the fly switching (Nvidia Prime Advanced) not supported on linux.
1.c HDMI port on most laptop is hardwired to nvidia gpu.
The biggest problem of using nvidia laptop gpu on linux is that most nvidia laptops are hardwired on HDMI port and since the drivers are not included with the kernel, External displays are not supported on boot. This may not seem like a problem, but if your laptop display breaks (Happened to me stopped work one day) then you are helpless as the laptop will not share the screen on external display.
I now use a MUX laptop(lenovo legion 5), and definitely was bummed when i found out about not being possible to connect to iGPU thro HDMI unless it could still be possible over USBC, did not test that myself :p.
But honestly experience so far has been quite fine, the desktop in on-demand iGPU renders most stuff and dGPU just X, ain't too bad and i can still get access to the dGPU with 'prime-run'.
There is Runtime D3 to disable/enable like on windows but yeah seems subpar for linux too.
Only case scenario for integrated only is more on battery really is some external script to blacklist nvidia or prime-select intel, its what it is, i can bear with it now tho.
You can set the nomodeset kernel parameter in GRUB to tell Linux to stick with whatever display configuration your firmware set. It's probably gonna look ugly, but should at least get you _some_ video output.
Is this even necessary though?
The command line output for example should still work if the driver is installed, and even nouveau should be able to handle it.
The default command line (or Grub) config is mirrored or am I wrong?
@@MichaelNROH it just doesnt work maybe an nvidia thing only the xorg/wayland session is mirrored to external display that means the login managers (typically sddm for myself) does not appear in the external display. This behaviour is similar to both nouveau and proprietary GPU
actually I think it's the other way around. Most laptops are hardwired to the integrated GPU (unless they have a MUX switch), which means you have to run both your dedicated GPU and the integrated GPU.
when gaming your dedicated GPU may work on the game, but the video signal is then passed through to your integrated GPU which then sends the signal to your HDMI monitor.
Well, at least the situation is slowly improving on both sides: NVK and Rusticl are steadily being developed. That means Vulkan in Mesa on Turing+ (and maybe even Kepler) as well as better OpenCL support across the board.
free software ftw
Screw Turing, I just want a good open source driver for older hardware like the GeForce 9400M. Older hardware needs it more (there is plenty of old hardware that would work fine for older games and basic tasks, if only it was still supported)... since a lot of it just has the poor performing Nouveau driver as their only legitimate option as support was cut off a long time ago.
@@Nurse_Xochitl Nouveau works pretty well on the main cards it was made for. And since we can relock cards up to Kepler, you even get full performance on them.
The issue is, Nouveau was just an OpenGL implementation. And without Vulkan you can't run DXVK and friends needed for DirectX.
If you want to see better support for older cards, you need to find someone willing to invest time and effort into it. Either support someone like that financially or just be that person.
@@mskiptr Nouveau does not seem to work too well on a GeForce 9400M or a GTX 1050. On a GeForce 9400M, it doesn't get full performance, more like 2/3 performance.
lol I'm not rich either, I have plenty of debt (med school, house + car loans, etc.) and rising inflation. I'm not a programmer either. xD
I wonder how is it with intel dedicated graphics. Even if the performance was poorer, if the software stack is fine, then that would be very attractive option
Oh, intel arc isn't that good either (yet)
@@jimbo-devnot for gaming but IIRC for normal use theyre solid and are improving fast at any rate.
I have an AMD GPU on Linux but whenever I use hardware encoding I just use my intel CPU's iGPU for it with quick sync, its so much better than AMD's encoding on par with nvenc imo
Quality wise it's still a little bit worse, but it's not really noticable if someone doesn't know what to look out for. It also depends on the bitrate and other settings like keyframes, b-frames, etc.
Didn't know that for OBS, if you use an AMD GPU with Mesa, you can use hardware encoding using VA-API? You can specify your video card as a renderer using VA-API and encode with your GPU on OBS using Mesa rather than proprietary drivers. It's only if you want AMF specifically that you need the proprietary drivers.
Correct.
VA-API sadly hasn't reached AMF level encoding yet, which kind of sucks.
It's fine on higher bitrates, but for the low-end it sadly falls a bit behind when it comes to quality and performance
Yeah for recording it work pretty flawless. No issue doing 4K high bitrate video. The issue is really with low bitrate streaming... Mostly on Twitch. CZcams can handle higher bitrate so it is not that bad.
I've been really happy with the open source drivers on Linux for AMD, but it really does drive me bonkers that I need to get an inferior proprietary driver to do any OpenCL stuff! I mean, I would use the proprietary AMD driver if it was the same or better in performance with games + I got my OpenCL. But they make you pick between the two. The biggest benefit to the open source AMD drivers for me though is that it lets me run OpenBSD in my dual boot ;D
In my experience the nvidia drivers are pretty horrible. On X11 everything is so much more stuttery and it feels like there is a crazy amount of latency. Wayland has different issues, where things like firefox don't have hardware acceleration. I think the only way this will be fixed is with the resurrection of the nouveau driver, which might be rather soon, thanks to the GSP which will allow recklocking and other such features to actually work. So in a couple years we might have a decent open nvidia driver again. Until then, the only reason to buy an nvidia card when on Linux is Cuda. If you don't use Cuda you're probably better off with AMD or maybe intel once they release their Xe drivers.
That's exactly the reason why I moved to AMD. I also have the experience with stutters on Nvidia drivers on Linux, as far as I can remember this always has been a problem for me. Also updating the drivers caused various problems. Now a couple of months I mainly use AMD GPU's on all my Linux systems and I must say that the experience is way better.
@@allardpruim9474 Do you have multiple monitors with different refresh rates ?
@@synkstar9921 I do and have the same stuttering issues. Can't get my two monitors to behave. One is 1440p 144hz and the other is 4k 60hz.
Great video! Can you comment on power consumption/battery life? I encountered that the lack of proper driver for Nvidia would make my battery life very short. I used my laptop with the GPU deactivated most of the time because of that. I was hoping that AMD drivers would be more efficient, really following the hybrid mode.
Efficient not really. AMD cards generally draws more power than NVIDIA, but that's just their architecture
Mesa will soon ship their own OpenCL driver implementation
Both are bad. Kernel 6.5 is showing constant visual glitches and audio glitches on my all AMD Ryzen 5 3500U integrated graphics laptop and Kernel 6.1 had stutters on devices that use fTPM, and it took months to fix it.
I think it's more of a kernel problem than an AMD/Nvidia problem.
No issues with Intel iGPU for over a decade. I've thought to try AMD.
I used Linux on laptop with NVIDIA card. Eventually I switched out, as this was too annoying to maintain - NVIDIA drivers randomly breaking during updates or even TV via HDMI not working properly.
On another laptop, this time with AMD dGPU, it actually works better than on Windows, as some games on DirectX seem to be working worse than they should - but it's fine on Linux with DXVK.
tbh, nvidia doesnt really break for me. I do only use the nvidia card in my laptop tho, and not the iGPU from intel. But i dont use that in windows either.
@@karot9100 I spoke of GTX 1600 series. It's technically same architecture as RTX 2000, so should be supported by newer drivers. What card do you have, and do you game on it? Hybrid of dGPU mode?
@@SirRFI rtx 3060 on a gigabyte aorus 15p kc gaming laptop. First rtx laptop i could get my hands on in the pandemic. I use dGPU mode in bios, so it never has to pass trough the iGPU. (Not to be mistaken by nvidia mode while on hybrid graphics, which gives less performance in games for me. Although it depends on the games)
@@SirRFI Also, pop os is great to start linux with, which i did. Built in nvidia drivers and hybrid mode if needed.
I had so many problems with Nvidia, so many glitches and artifacts.. weird stuff.. it was like the GPU was broken, but it really wasn't. Also the driver broke my boot a couple of times.. I am quite happy with AMD right now.
BUT my laptop it works quite good with the Nvidia GPU/Hybrid. So they might have improved some things.
AMD works perfectly fine and as far a hardware accelerated apps INSTALL rocm .. Davinci Resolve works OTB with rocm installed done and done.. no headache fighting with a stupid driver and frankly if you are gaming on Linux for things to just work as advertised choose AMD.. want your head to explode choose Nvidia Also regarding AMF you can install it without the amdgpu-pro complete stack.. the thing is amdgpu-pro is NOT the driver.. its additional features built on top the opensource driver.
AMD makes generally great video cards (good performance for their price), but I have not liked their drivers since the days of ATI (that's when I personally switched to Nvidia). I was recently upgrading a friend's computer with an RX 6500 XT and I ran into some issues that I've never encountered with Nvidia cards. For example, I got a jerky picture in Stellarium, as if the video card was outputting several new frames, and then one old. You may ask what distribution and driver did I used? Windows 10, naturally with proprietary drivers from the AMD website.
Of course I had problems with Nvidia on Linux, especially with older hardware or hybrid graphics, but at least it worked fine on Windows. I don’t want to do anti-advertising for AMD, especially since I like that they make more open drivers. But for some reason, my attempts to try their video cards usually end in failure. Now I’m building a computer for a work colleague with a Ryzen 5600G and built-in Vega graphics. Hope this will work well.
Vega graphics work well on Linux, I use them, but in distros like Red Hat or Suse you will have to download the codecs separately.
Is there any way you can cover Intel's software & firmware? Them producing standalone gaming graphics cards is a fairly new situation so not many have covered it
nothing to cover, they still suck on linux and in gaming in general because of slow drivers
@@diddymies Of course it's slow since they're just starting up. The question is how good they're been at open sourcing what they develop and making their efforts available on desktop Linux rather than just Windows or maybe Enterprise Linux. Anything that's open source now will probably still be open source when it reaches good levels of quality
I have an Nvidia GPU and I've never had any issues with it. I don't know about performance, can't test that since I don't have an AMD GPU, but the Nvidia card works with no problems. Sometimes I feel like the hate for Nvidia is purely ideological.
Peiobably country based
One is from usa, another is taiwan
@@asmrnaturecat984 Highly doubt that. Most people who have issues on Linux with their Nvidia card say that it works fine on Windows, which just means it's a software issue.
I really wonder how well this works with Intel Arc... Considering they also rely on Mesa, I assume they work well. Does anyone have any experiences with Arc GPUs on Linux under Wayland?
I have Arc A770 and it is fine with Linux on Wayland
From what I've seen they ARE still pretty dodgy, but they're improving fast and for non-gaming use work perfectly fine.
The truth is that at the moment they only serve for multimedia to play, they are very bad, literally a 1080 surpasses an A770 in vulkan
Nvidia drops support for older hardware pretty damn quickly on Linux so unless you're rich enough to keep upgrading your GPU every couple years, it definitely matters. And that's besides the XWayland stutter/lag issues and the simple fact that first party FOSS drivers will always be better than proprietary ones. Apparently it's less of an issue with high refresh rate screens and newer Nvidia GPU's but on a 1060 6gb with a regular 1080p 60/75hz screen, there's a noticeable input lag when running games through XWayland, Nvidia acknowledged this and dismissed it as "not their fault"
Hence when I buy a new PC, I'm not considering NVIDIA at all.
For Windows, AMD drops support for their older gpus very earlier. When NVIDIA does something it's a problem when AMD does no complain. Windows is more important than Linux and AMD sucks on that.
@@Sam-cq9bjopen source allows support.
Most Linux users don't care about Windows support.
Best thing about amd on linux for me is that I didn't have to install any drivers or fuss about them. Literally, built my PC and booted into Linux and went on with my life. There are some graphics issues, but not really a big deal for what I do. Can't say that about nvidia.
Does KDENlive support hardware acceleration for amd 6650m dedicated graphics on linux?
It should
I am using zorin os for a year now am thinking to make a switch to debian 12 or fedora 38 due to less updates on zorin. which will you recommend out of these 2?
It depends what you're doing on it. Just everyday driver for fumbling around the internet? School work?
If you want updates then you don't wanna go for Debian.
Debian is a stable distro and only updates security patches or small fixes until the next release in a couple of years.
Unless you choose the Testing branch.
It does for me, one has Open Source drivers the other does not, thats all I need to know in order to choose what to use.
I'm using and AMD-card, before I've used an Nvidia card. And what do I say? My PC performs much better with the AMD-card than with the Nvidia card. I literally had a mess with the nvidia-drivers in linux, when one package got updated before another when, where I got into dependency conflicts and it wouldn't run anymore. With amd? none of them.
Unfortunately, I have some recent problems, where the graphics-driver just hangs my complete system when starting a specific program. (e.g. Minecraft).
So now I'm split between AMD and Nvidia, since I don't know how to fix this problem or if I just go with a Nvidia card.
(Also, I use Arch, so yea, for those who may have encountered the same problem, I'd be happy for any suggestions.)
since you're on Arch, make use of downgrade. I've held back my kernel and mesa drivers recently to avoid issues. Kernel 6.3.9 is currently the most stable for most AMD GPU users.
@@shijikori Thank you for your answer. May I ask you, which mesa version you're running? Downgrading the kernel alone to 6.3.9 doesn't resolve the issue.
I've just switched from Nvidia to Intel and it's basically the same story. I love my new tiny little Nuc 12 Enthusiast with it's A770m gpu running Fedora.
You can run amd proprietary driver and mesa driver at the same time. If the application you run needs the proprietary driver you can start the application with it while everything else will still run on mesa. That way you get the best of both worlds while not having to worry that one day things will stop working cause nvidia forgot to update their drivers in time.
Nice to know that. I did not know I could have both drivers working.
I have my AMD motherboard + 2 AMD working Gpu passthrough working on proxmox with 2 VMs, Sound for one VM via a USB Headset combo
How do I use the motherboard sound from the host machine on the other VM Michael .. I'm new to the whole idea of Proxmox even though I got it to work 😂 maybe you have a video on that already ..
cheers
So my first PC i built wasn't the best in specs, it had an intel CPU and NVIDIA GPU so that might be why, but no matter what, games stuttered, lagged and were unplayable,
My second PC was a laptop, had a AMD CPU and a NVIDIA GPU, games where the same, lagged and were incredibly stutter.
I just built my second PC with Ryzen and AMD GPU and any game I've played are buttery smooth like I've never seen them.
Maybe I haven't tinkered enough but out of the box AMD is a no brainer for me on Linux.
Also on NVIDIA on Linux i got really bad screen tearing which I couldn't fix with hours and hours of troubleshooting and speaking to people.
Iv'e have had mixed experience with nvidia on linux. AMD usually worked better and OOTB, i have used nvidia cards on linux bowth legacy and new and the experience was mixed fedora 38 on wayland with gnome on a 4070ti seemed to work just fine but legacy cards like a quadro 600 were a mix bag(i used it because i paired with an old core2quad) and the amd equivalent was much better. I also use a lot of legacy intel igpus bowth apus and chipset graphics and they work very well and they have offered me the best experience actually. That being said when everything worked it was about the same experience. I used my old trusty 1070 on mint and it ran fine with no issues.
I personally don't care what brand I use, I got a 3090ti for cheap that needed a cooler, before that I was running a 6800xt, the 6800xt was a darn good card, but the 3090ti was just faster at the right price I found it for, made my money back selling the 6800xt. If I had the 6950xt, I'd probably still snag the 3090ti and fix it and resell it to make a little something out of it.
I don't have much interest in ray tracing or DLSS, if a game lighting is done right and not half assed, it can look stunning without raytracing, but them games like Cyberpunk rely on is so much with it off it does look worse than a game thats done proper lighting and shadows without it. DLSS even FSR is the biggist mistake I think both companies came up with, makes these developers lazy and unwilling to optimize as they got a upscaling option at their disposal why not use it.
Idk, I'm fine with either at the right price.
I can't hardly wait until your expensive RTX 3090 Ti has driver support cut off. lol
NVIDIA cuts off support quickly, leaving people with crappy open source drivers that can't make use of all their cards features simply because NVIDIA also decided to lock those down too.
Anyone who buys the most powerful cards, also contribute to the lack of optimization.
Developers don't see the need to optimize either, when people just constantly buy expensive, powerful hardware every few years or less.
This hurts people who can't afford the expensive powerful cards, as well as the environment (ironically, a more powerful card also uses more electricity lol), and anyone who wants a smaller form factor (big, powerful cards are well... big, and require beefy cooling systems).
Such a coincidence that you made and uploaded this video just when the main NVIDIA open source developer just resigned from Red Hat
It doesn't matter really.
If NVIDIA as a company decides they want to push Open Source, then they will. If they don't it would have been a mess either way, since one person can't really make a difference given the constant amount of updates.
It's a loss for sure, but not in the long term sadly.
Well, yes, it won't break. I constantly have problems with it, then after the update I see a black screen because the driver is broken, then now it lags, and there are glitches in the gnome, and again, I rolled back and everything worked better.
wanted to switch to amd for my linux build but when I looked for the games I play on protonDB, all the people having issues or had to set start parameters were using amd gpus and most of the people saying it ran perfect out of the box were using nvidia gpus. Haven’t had an issue yet with a 3080 and using linux mint.
To be fair, many people set start commands because they believe it helps improve the performance.
I personally don't do that and never had to, to get a game working on Linux.
@@MichaelNROH same for me, I hope that in the future any game can be played on linux, windows and maybe even mac out of the box but I think we're on the right track for that.😄
As someone who recently switched from a gtx 980 to rx 580, i can say AMD drivers worked much better for me. For some reason Linux gtx 9.. series drivers caused many problems. Now I just install an OS and use it. Though I must say, wayland STILL feels sluggish on Gnome DEs 😢
You can probably try Gamescope to cut down latency a little. Gamescope is also Wayland but it run independently of the desktop and it is optimized for lower latency. It bypass the desktop display server/compositor completely and go directly flip the pixel bit in the output memory buffer. It is probably the best middle ground solution until Valve or somebody else start coding something that work like HyperRX and Refelx. Though I would bet that Valve already started working on something similar for Gamescope.
Amd because proper Wayland support on older and even newer Nvidia gpus
yes i have extact same problem with amd gpu and yeah i wish to have proper support with h.264 encoder on obs as right now its stuck at software x264 and i get a lot of frame skipping and i do not have a shit computer either.. its the sotware encoder that takes up to much resource while the non free amf encoder takes up less .. i dont have this problem using obs with amd gpu cause i have the proper encoder to use on obs as to linux i dont.
Due to AMD being a bit on their infant for laptops and price i still had to buy nvidia laptop, i did have a look it was just about a month ago when i got the new laptop but offers in Portugal are pretty bad on all AMD machines..
As for the experience, i mean its fine, sometimes they can act weird, like on my current kubuntu install 525 drivers would freeze on games when using external display and putting nvidia as the dGPU, updating to 535 solved the issue, but then its packages and such, Ubuntu for instance doesn't ship dynamic boost(or just powerd, not sure) actived OOTB unlike Pop!OS and TuxedoOS for instance, i had to activate myself, with help on reddit.
A plus side tho is that at least GPU passthrough works and there are quite some guides on it in case i need a fast windows VM, something that for AMD is an incognito out in wild, but i am hopefull for AMD to improve their mobile variant of dGPUs too still.
Just use both at the same time 🗿(bonus points if you also enable your Intel CPU's integrated graphics or own an ARC GPU)
Davinci resolve is usually hostile towards linux, which is why I use KDENlive anyways
Can you provide links about it?
Been using Linux since 2004, and I have definitely had better luck with AMD (and ATI) GPUs, even back in 2005. Nvidia's drivers were a constant thorn in my side on the two systems I owned that had Nvidia GPUs. They broke all the time. I just built my first PC and made SURE to buy an AMD GPU, and everything just works. Intel's IGPUs are pretty good too, and the drivers work better than they do on Windows. I'm curious how well the ARC GPUs work on Linux.
I Choose The Yellow Pill 4 quad core Snapdragon processor
I've had a great time on Nvidia and AMD, and that's mainly because Wayland existing. The experience on X is horrible on NVIDIA imo
Pop os makes it very easy to use nvidia, even though you can get it working on any distro, I just prefer the ease of use pop provides. Haven't had any issues using a nvidia gpu with it for the past 3 years :D
As someone who has been using Linux for awhile I recommend googling Linux on the GPU you have or intend to use. I have found support and functionality or even just basic stability can vary wildly not just between brands but models.
I think it does. If you support AMD, a company that does a lot of Open Source stuff (FSR is open source and you avn use it in every GPU, no matter the brand), you are supporting a good cause.
If you support Nvidia, you should know that Nvidia has a lot of history being a dick towards Linux. And all their stuff is proprietary
I would b on linux now if total war warhammer 3 worked on nvidia via proton. Its got really bad frame spikes on both my 3090 and 3070 laptop across multiple distros. I don't want to use native as I play with Windows users and that version is always older missing loads of content.
Purple pills all day for me
My experience with an NVIDIA GPU: it works great on X11 and Wayland, until I try gaming, then its borked on Wayland. And yes, gaming being viable on Linux is the a big reason why I decided to migrate from Windows, if gaming doesn't work, then I cant stay on Linux.
Note it was not about performance, its just that some games simple do not work, at all, under Wayland, particularly bad if they are running with proton (which tbf might be the underlying problem instead of NVIDIA itself).
Im going to build a new PC this year, and im seriously considering going for AMD, but your video made me reconsider and do ore research before committing, because I wont be able to buy a new GPU for a very long time after. THough, as a sanity measure, im probably going to go for intel CPU with a reasonable iGPU so I can have a fallback in case I REALLY need something that AMD gpus cant do, but I dont expect it to be a problem, I dont work with CGI or video editing.
Amazing video! Yeah, I am updating my workhorse which has a 1070, I am actually about to give it a hard test soon playing Elden Ring and emulate some games. I think I can do it, but even if not, this machine will maybe get one or two more years before I turn it into a server at home lol. 😂
So coming back to the question, I am choosing Team Blue actually. Say what you want about Intel, but at least their GPU’s are not an arm and a leg and combined with an integrated graphics, I think I can take it. If Arc didn’t come out recently, I probably would have chosen AMD. Not that I have a negative experience with Nvidia on Linux btw, in fact my first dual boot was with Win8 and Ubuntu with a 660. I just have to say no to their price tags.
In short, yeah GPU’s are hit or miss on Linux, but with the right configuration and environment setup, it is on par with Windows.
Also, I use Garuda with x11. You are right about Wayland, I get a black screen and my computer becomes a fancy brick 😂. If anything, I don’t see ‘why’ Wayland will ever be my driver if I had a GPU made with Nvidia’s chipset. At least I can use my computer with x11.
Going with Intel might actually be smart as the drivers keep improving. In one or two years, even the current gen cards will be more performant
I had a really good experience with Arc+Wayland+KDE Plasma. But... Ever since Windows 7 Linux desktop is "why bother"? Otherwise that's a pretty good combo. In the end spending money on anything other than Nvidia is a waste.
Nvidia wasn't fun on Fedora. I was trying to dual boot windows and Fedora with an Nvidia GPU, but couldn't get it working because.... something something you can't enable secure boot on Fedora with an Nvidia GPU. Or maybe you have to create your own TPM key or something?? Anyways, it was extremely complex for a non-developer user and this was all because Fedora wouldn't do the set up for users because the driver was proprietary (or something). It was awful. Switching to AMD fixed all my problems.
I suppose my general experience with Nvidia is that the drivers probably work most of the time and are fine, but there were so many corner cases. Secure boot, mismatched refresh rates on multiple monitors, too high of a refresh rate, adaptive sync, etc... There were a myriad of problems where things didn't just work out of the box and it ended up being more frustrating than I was willing to put up with.
I don't understand the need for proprietary drivers, you're not selling them, and if you don't have a card you can't use them. So why not have it open?
Custom Features, like Reflex, NVENC, DLSS, etc.
It's all about control
alot of of people buy Nvidia for features like DLSS, optiX, etc. and if the drivers are open source AMD could copy them almost perfectly in a matter of days but because they're closed-source it takes AMD months or even years to get something that is only half as good as Nvidia's version
ROCm sucks in comparison to modern RustiCL in MESA which shouldn't really need any extra setup nowadays, it's weird that you experienced issues with it in some programs
Unfortunately it does matter, having an AMD gpu gives you the freedom to pick from a multitude of distros with a clean user experience out of the box. In my Experience having an Nvidia GPU give you the ability to choose between a few distros with good implementation of the driver and general excellent support, for instance Ubuntu has a smooth Nvidia experience with X11 but when I use Pop OS despite it having an Nvidia iso it is a laggy choppy user experience and I find 8 out of 10 distros with Nvidia Drivers have that issue. I will say that I believe in the next few months to a year that wayland will have hopefully resolved the few things preventing it from being functional on Nvidia and when that day comes then Nvidia users do not have to worry about lag and stutter and can hopefully have a more seamless experience. I for instance recently got Dragon's Dogma 2 which is playable in Linux and according to Proton DB is playable on Nvidia hardware in Ubuntu, well guess the one game that did not work on my Ubuntu install and trust me it sucks because it was one smooth nice desktop experience, these are the issues I am referring to but damn are we close. If anyone has a recommendation that they think would work well with a 4060ti gpu and not only is the user experience good but there are no driver issues preventing play of games then please do let me know. Great video by the way Michael I love the channel and look forward to your new content!
what about intel gpus
I have a gaming laptop with both Intel and nVidia GPU acceleration. I run Fedora Linux, currently version 38. In my experience the nVidia side of things is okay for a time and then an update break it and I end up having to disable GPU acceleration at startup or completely reinstall the system. I have tried numerous thing to try and fix the situation but nothing short of a complete reinstallation of the operating system will restore correct GPU operation. This situation has occurred a several times and is the main reason I definitely do not want any kind of nVidia GPU in my Linux systems.
I appreciate it is more of a personal preference but the other reason I do not want an nVidia GPU is I find that the visual quality is much better with AMD than nVidia, although nVidia has improved a lot in recent versions of their GPUs.
The computer I am typing this comment on is all AMD hardware and I have never had a problem with it, only where there is an nVidia GPU present.
The attitude NVIDIA has towards open-source is just horrible ! No question around that ! First their GPUs require signed firmware inside the drivers, then NVIDIA delivers some firmware that is forever incomplete (missing the reclocking firmware, so to keep the GPUs at their lowest clock speeds). Just so Linux can never have an actual NVIDIA driver. And their own firmware inside the proprietary drivers is protected by their license terms so it can not be extracted (and re-used). They do this for a decade now, just horrible !
Although for gaming, checking latest Phoronix tests of 4080 Super, it is quite obvious that AMD performs better. A 4080 runs close to a 7900 XT in Hitman 3 or Dirt Rally for instance.
Blender does not use GPU if you use AMD GPU.
It used to and it can still be done with plugins.
@@MichaelNROH any solution for this?
It has been my experience that AMD is better than Nvidia, however; more recently I choose AMD because I won't need to mortgage my house and take a loan against my vehicles just to get a decent graphics card.
If you are a linux user AMD hands down no competition, on each pc ive had games have been unplayable on linux and have had alot of issues, my first amd build runs games buttery smooth even better than windows which i never thought was possible.
Open source drivers are cool and whatnot but imagine the impossible, open hardware gpus...
I've had a pretty good experience with Nvidia in the last couple years.
NVDIA gets more hate than they deserve. For all the problems that many "seem to have", it still performs really well overall.
@@MichaelNROH Yeah it's kind of a shame a lot of people aren't talking out of experience.
In 3 years of having a linux machine with a nvidia gpu, the worst thing that happened to me is that i got sent a bunk update once and had to revert the driver update. That's it.
I play games on my linux machine and do basically everything else on mac. For my scenario AMD works miles better than nvidia. And it is only getting better because the steamdeck exists.
Nvidia Support on Linux Sucks Tremendously! Especially in high end GPU's and Desktop than in Laptops.
This is why i Don't change to Linux completely from Windows.
X11 sometimes brokes the multi-monitor support, and Wayland is crazy Flickering and flashing with a Nvidia card.
Yes, there is a huge difference. NVIDIA on Linux has historically always had its things and in weaker/older GPUs is where the difference is most noticeable against AMD and even its homologous drivers in Windows.
The performance and functionality of the official NVIDIA drivers on Linux is bad, pretty pretty bad, it is at least more than half as slow than their Windows counterparts, they suffer from tearing, when you start working with several apps in the background the desktop starts to slow down which doesn't happen with the Windows drivers, there is no Wayland support, older GPUs cannot install the driver because the latest versions of the drivers are already too old, issues when recording with NVEC in OBS , glitches and/or graphic problems such as flickering may occur (and that is why you must disable flipping every time you want to record, which results in more tearing) and there is also no feature parity with the Windows driver in general despite the fact that NVIDIA demands that drivers on all platforms share the same code base
Years ago NVIDIA was the best option in Linux but not because their drivers were good, but because AMD drivers were even much worse, which is saying a lot (the infamous catalyst drivers that always had a bad reputation on Linux) in newer and more powerful NVIDIA GPUs, the difference between their drivers on Linux and Windows is becoming smaller, but Windows drivers still have the lead. Contrary to Intel and AMD who have always been plagued with issues on Windows including buggy implementations of OpenGL (AMD is mainly the worst offender here) The situation of Intel and AMD is completely the opposite on Linux, and it is to be expected that the situation will continue like that for the foreseeable time.
what are you talking about ? i have a 3070 on my desktop, using fedora KDE wayland and its working basicly perfectly, i even got more performance in games than on windows, so ive got no idea where you got that but you are insanely wrong
@@bad_dragon I have tested the proprietary NVIDIA drivers on a GeForce 210 and 710 and they are terribly bad, in particular the GeForce 710 entered the legacy branch in 2021. So no, I'm not wrong.
@@Sumire973 oh you're using some pretty old cards, so yeah fair didnt thought about that, but if you take any more modern nvidia graphics card its way smoother
FOR LINUX USERS ONLY AMD
AMD or Intel for me.
Screw NVIDIA. They don't fully open source their drivers, but then cut off support for older GPUs that would still be usable for older games and basic tasks.
Lets be real, if Nvidia made drivers open, noone would use amd anymore
I would disgree here.
Yes, NVIDIA is still superior to AMD when it comes to new features, but the price to performance ratio is much better on AMD.
It already shows on Windows, whereas more budget builds prefer AMD cards
Oh yes mesa is so much more stable, only like this year both debian bookworm and ubuntu 23.04 shiped broken mesa driver resulting in black screen and unbootable system on some radeon models, (for me its 6800) on their default iso, and since these bastards did not update the iso at all yet, both systems remain unusable.
You sure there isn't something wrong with your BIOS/UEFI?
I can't really find any reliable sources and also own an RX6800XT, which was completely fine.
Sometimes when swapping hardware, some old kernel dependencies and ties to the UEFI can brick it. Sometimes it results in an unbootable system, sometimes problems only occur if it needs to access some data (e.g. fTPM)
I am building a new PC and want to use it for gaming and running AI programs like Stable Diffusion I heard that AI models run better on Nvidia hardware was planning on using POP distro as well since I heard they have good support for Nvidia cards anyone have any advice would appreciate it, thanks
New AMD cards are, IIRC getting a new version of ROCM which can run programs written for CUDA, meaning the AI advantage (while still likely present) won't be majorly detrimental. As for support you're probably fine on any sonewhat modern distro since even the 40 series have been out fir a hot minute at this point.
The question is more when. It was supposed to release in early 2023 and yet it isn't ready yet
I chose a AMD graphics card and I were letdown that I have to install drivers to use it on Blender. It is good for games but my main thing is Blender and Natron.
It was a hustle the first time and I broke the OS, but I found a really good video explaining step by step wich one you have to install on Ubuntu based distros.
Thanks for sharing ❤️
It is just weird the first time. Though there is this point were... Maybe arch base distro had a little advantage here. The whole ROCm thing is a single package on AUR. It is called opencl-amd and it install everything required for ROCm/HIP/OpenCL and work alongside Mesa driver. This is one of the main factor that made me try Manjaro back when Blender 3.0 with Cycles-x HIP went out. Nowadays I do pretty much everything from video to CGI rendering and also AI image generation and training on SD/SDXL + AI frame generation with RIfe and gaming too with really little issue.
If not for MESA, AMD would've been in the same boat as NVIDIA. The only reason why AMD started contributing to open-source in the first place is because the community has come up with the driver first and that is working better than AMD's own proprietary one. There was an attempt like that for NVIDIA too in the form of Nouveau but the result wasn't good so NVIDIA didn't bother. Had Nouveau been great at performance, NVIDIA too would've continued to develop it, because then it'd mean they'd need to pay few developers and even if they didn't fix something, community would do it for them.
but i thought it is hard to run games on linux
No
Games, not necessarily. Interfaces, it's more difficult, at least for someone with not much experience with this. e.g. While Star Citizen worked without issues on my Nobara, I could not get TrackIR to work and had to switch back to dualbooting with Windows for gaming.
That used to be the case until several years ago, Valve has done fantastic work with their work on WINE called proton, now most games run and play with minimal to no tweaking. Some things are still non-existant or broken though, such as HDR or adaptive refresh technology (g-sync/freesync) and multiplayer games that rely on kernel-level anti cheat do not work such as PUBG or Bungie's Destiny. But who cares, competitive multiplayer is overrun with cheaters anyway
I just recently switched from AMD to NVIDIA. The last 3 cards (RX580, RX 5700XT, RX 7900XTX) all had their problems... Overheating, bad drivers, random flickers, etc. I tried it, always AMD fanboy, but I can't stand the bad drivers (more so on Windows). I bought a 4070Ti and everything works perfectly on Arch + Win11. Not a single driver crash, black screen or similar issue. Additionally it just needs 50% of the power of a 7900xtx while having better RT performance... And, as you said, I can't even use codecs and stuff without the propietary drivers which suck at gaming. So overall I think CURRENTLY, Wayland aside, NVIDIA is (sadly) the better choice overall (if you do anything more than gaming like cuda stuff, streaming, etc.
Wayland isn't a thing which influences my graphics card choice, because it's just no usable for day-to-day work, not even on AMD. There is always something that does not work. Wayland needs another 1-2 years I guess to be a real replacement.
Nice vid as always :) Greetings from Cologne!
Nvidia works well with cuda. Woop de doo. CUDA is proprietary garbage that wouldn't exist in a perfect world, or at least it should be an open standard that all hardware would have converged on by now had that been the case. Nvidia saw their opportunity to lock up the market and oh boy did they lock it up, AMD was weak at the time and intel wasn't in the game. intel with it's oneapi might improve the ecosystem eventually, the likes of HIP are a bandaid at best and frankly are hot garbage for the most part.
Using nvidia on Linux is saying that proprietary garbage and anti-consumer practices is okay. You are the problem.
first
Yes it very much dose matter, and AMD is hands down better than NVIDIA
It isn't a binary yes or no question. AMD do play better with open source and the Linux community, but they're not perfect either.
There are use cases where nVidia is not only better, it is the only alternative. The one that sticks with me, is people who have a dual boot and mess with Linux in their own time, but have a day-job where they have to use the company software, and Bill's Chartered Accounting use their own book keeping software written for them in CUDA. You don't use Intel + Window$ + nVidia, the mission critical software simply doesn't run. This is monopolistic business practice, but this is what goes on more often that not in the real world. We like to talk up open source but that's a little like children talking up their cartoon or fairy-story characters in relation to the real world. That's a nice story, sweetheart, but that's not what grownups really do. Real grownups will take your Little Golden Books business model, and Tea Bag it.
ROCm is nice, and it works, and converting CUDA code to ROCm is not all that hard, but it does require actual human hands-on to get it done. You can't just feed working CUDA code into ROCm and expect it to run. Whether we like it or not, CUDA is to graphic execution of modelling and scientific code, what Window$ is to operating systems. It's not a complete total 100% lock-out, but it is a 75 ~ 80% domination, and in business / professional space, that's more like 95+%.
Seeing as NVIDIA GPUs cause games to be unplayable to the point crashing Steam and Locking the whole system up. Also AMD's FSR is open source and usable on any GPU, where as NVIDIA's equivalent is locked to their GPUs oh and not Available on Linux because the NVIDIA Drivers are Trash. Yeah I'm just going to hard disagree with your whole Both-Sides view.