Hollow Knight Timeline - Era 1: Life Before the King (and Explanations)
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
- This video is the first episode of a series I'm doing covering the full timeline of Hollow Knight. The second part includes in-depth explanations for any controversial claims I make in the timeline section, such as the true purpose of the Dream Nail and the Queen's original home.
00:00 - Start
00:55 - The Dream Realm
03:03 - The Godless Tribes
04:37 - Explanation Intro
05:39 - The Root's Roots
07:15 - The Radiance's Home
09:37 - The Dream Nail's Purpose
10:20 - The Voiders' Retreat
11:41 - Myla's Song
13:09 - Monomon the Planner
13:54 - Solar Radiance
16:00 - Wrap-up - Hry
I think it's possible the Radiance is Hallownest's sun, but that doesn't exclude the crystals then absorbing that light from the skies above, thus making Crystal Peak a perfect place to worship the Radiance.
Crystal Peak is also the highest place in hollowknest, it would only make sense to worship her at the closest spot to her.
If that part of Radiance being the Sun was taken literally, it sounds really interesting.
Meaning the planet where this all happens would be a rouge planet, lacking star, and only sustains life thanks to the existence of the higher beings and the dream realm, idk how, but it sounds fascinating to me.
Maybe radiance slept in the crystal peak making night.
I love how the radiance and unn are basicallyt oposites. Unn basically accepts that her power is weakening and kinda just vibes and chills. While radiance just kinda wants to kill everyone hahaha. Its just a nice dicotamy that i may myself make a video on.
nice
I think it's interesting that one of the six pieces of pale ore is found near the statue of the Radiance at the Crown of Hallownest. Any thoughts?
That's a really good point! My first thought is that I wonder just how rare pale ore was back in the day. I mean, there's strong evidence the Hollow Knight has a pale ore nail, and that White Palace sure is ... pale.
I think the topic of pale ore itself could be worth exploring in a video. Assuming I get faster at making these damn things haha
@@errric_enniawl I actually imagine its scarcity might have something to do with the vanishing of the White Palace. I really have to wonder how often the Nailsmith gets to work with pale ore, given that his life's ambition was to smith a pure nail, and you really don't need *that* much pale ore in order to smith one. Either way, I imagine the creation of the Kingsmoulds' armour & weapons probably used up a ton of it. I wonder if molten pale ore was poured into moulds (like the 'collector' mould found in the king's workshop) in the forging process. I love this shit dawg
@@errric_enniawl I don’t exactly know how it came to be there but I feel it’s more symbolic in nature. The pale ore (which probably contained some sort of pale energy from the king) placed at the last shrine of the radiance almost as if to desecrate it. I don’t really know though if this holds up with the actual lore.
@@Hollowman8623 TC has mentioned that the Pale Ore has a connection to PK/WL...somehow. It's never elaborated on.
Theory: pale ore are the pearls of pale clams
Great video! Another thing that might support the Radiance living at Hollownest's Crown is that it would makes sense that a "sun" (though probably not literally the sun) would be at the top of a mountain or rising over it at dawn. I was a little confused though on the point that the Radiance created the moths. I always thought she was born out of their dreams and not the other way around, but I don't quite remember all the seer's quotes and the lore surrounding them. I guess it would make sense that she be very similar to Unn in her dreams creating her people. Thanks for putting all this in one place. Great research. Great video.
This is Seer’s dialogue:
_“So much Essence... So bright.... You truly are the Wielder my tribe so long has dreamed of._
_The folk of my tribe were born from a light. Light similar to Essence, similar to that powerful blade, though much brighter still._
_They were content to bask in that light and honoured it... for a time._
_But another light appeared in our world... A wyrm that took the form of a king.”_
I have another theory for the void worshipers, could it not be possible that they just died because of the void, we know void can kill people if exposed for too long such as the corpse in Queens Gardens or the pale king himself which is just dead and the only thing surrounding him is void essence.
So it could be possible that the void worshipers did live everywhere but much before everyone else existed and just died out, would explain how there is totems in other areas of the map but would also explain how most of the ruins of the void worshipers is in the abyss as that's where the void resides so naturally the worshippers would want to live close to it
It's possible the Radiance has never left the dream world, and can only act in the physical world through beings she creates/possesses.
As a fan of mossbag videos and Hollow knight lore in general, I'm so happy I discovered your channel. Hollow knight lore is so obscure and I can imagine how time consuming it must be to produce such videos but the result is amazing. Looking forward the next parts!
You've got a good, steady narration voice, and a really creative interpretation of the lore. I'm happy to add you to my list of Hollow Knight content creators.
Let's fucking GOOOOOO
I'm honestly really impressed with this editing, from what i can tell you might have picked apart the games project files in order to render some of the scenes in the video.
Awesome video man. This is up there with Mossbag! Can't wait to see the rest.😎
Alright, it's always good to read on other perspectives. It's also good to comment on things that were incorrect and/or flimsy, or simply interesting things that were left out.
- General note: Essence colors do not necessarily mean its source is a Higher Being. Gray Prince Zote, despite being a fragment of Bretta's mind, has a unique Essence color.
- GN2: We do not know how long the White Lady has been in Hallownest, let alone if she has always been there.
1:01 The Nightmare Realm and Dream Realm were, as you said, split apart. The poem (written by Seer) uses an odd word choice: "must stay apart". This implies that something was powerful enough to fundamentally change the structure of a realm. Who or what did this is never explained. Other than that, the Nightmare's Heart is also a Higher Being.
1:48 The Radiance is composed of Essence and "something brighter". This second unnamed substance is described only once: Seer's final monologue, wherein she says "The folk of my tribe were born from a light. Light similar to Essence, similar to that powerful blade, though much brighter still."
This also confirms that the Radiance herself isn't a Moth.
2:15 The purpose given for the Dream Nail is incorrect, though I'll explain this later.
2:36 The reason given for the Ancient Civilization's collapse in game is a bit more mundane. Simply put, they overextended themselves, and eventually collapsed. The Hunter comments on how nobody, not even the Pale King, has laid claim to (the region of) Hallownest as a whole. No evidence tells of the Ancient Civilization/Caste being pushed back by the Radiance, so while it might make thematic sense, it's still speculation.
2:57 The Void itself is not a Higher Being. The Void Idol has a quote from Relic Seeker Lemm which says that they worshipped no lord, power, or strength, but instead the very darkness itself. The Shade Beast in the Abyss also has the dream nail dialogue of "...Void...power, without unity..." reflecting its nature prior to the genesis of the Void Heart.
3:17 It's helpful to distinguish a shared mind from a hive mind. The Shrumals have the former, while the Bees (and later, Infected) have the latter.
6:49 I'm unsure if the Thorns can be identified as Infected roots or not. Nothing in-game connects them, and even the White Lady herself makes no comment about it (which is very odd given that her roots are still a part of her body; this is how she senses THK weakening in the Temple).
7:17 & 9:22 Contrary to popular misconception, the Radiance has never possessed a physical form. Even the forms of the Moths are fundamentally based upon Essence, revealed when Seer vanishes into Essence and "ascends" after her final monologue. Every being who references her, in name or not, always calls her "formless" or otherwise non-physical.
9:02 The final line of Myla's poem, if it's indeed describing the Radiance, would fit better by being interpreted as the Radiance being trapped within the (supposedly) empty mind of the Hollow Knight.
9:41 The purpose given for the Dream Nail as said earlier in the video, is wrong. Its purpose is to cut through the Veil that separates the dream realm from the physical realm. You've completely glossed over the prophecy within the Moth tribe who spoke of a Wielder who would one day come.
The Dream Wielder charm comes from the mind of Seer; she literally states it is "plucked from one of her fondest memories". It is also "transient" meaning that one day it will eventually fade away. Worshipping the Radiance directly affected her power, no need for Essence offerings; the thoughts of people who worshipped her were enough to sustain her. This is most blatantly demonstrated in Godhome, where the Godseekers (a tribe who already can increase the power of certain beings via worshipping them) increases the Radiance's power so much that she becomes Absolute Radiance, above even her historical best.
We know that distinction is true, based upon how the Godseekers describe her after beating the Radiance's imprint in the Hall of Gods; they say that the Radiance is met "in perfect state" in the final Pantheon.
10:14 If this was the case, why allow Seer to let the door open to the Resting Grounds in the first place, let alone allow her to Awaken the Dream Nail in the behest of a being who (in the right circumstances) could potentially kill them?
10:22 While the Radiance opposed the darkness, the quote you give to back this up is misattributed: it is the Pale King describing himself being the sole light against the dark. The use of the word "blazing kin" is also used by other NPCs to describe the Radiance and the Infected (especially the latter). He wanted to solve the Infection problem after all other attempts prior to the Vessel project failed, and this is his way of saying that.
On top of this, Monomon also contrasts the Pale King and Radiance. Consider the two lines of a tablet in the Archives: "KINGLIGHT-EM-GROWTH-INKIND-FLOW-ALLTHINK-ENFIELD" and "OLDLIGHT-EM-ESSENCE-EM-DREAM-EM-UNGROWTH". The Pale King (Kinglight) expands the minds (Growth) of all of those (Inkind/Allthink) who can be uplifted within the radius of his beacon (Enfield). The Radiance (Oldlight) however, instead is a nonphysical being (Essence/Dream) and uses her abilities to revert beings to basal instinct (Ungrowth), even those who were not uplifted by the beacon at all.
11:04 / 11:30 Or that upon their collapse, before they disappeared/fled, that they would return in some form.
11:16 While your hypothesis as stated before is wrong, your conclusion is correct. Absolute Radiance is noticeably brighter than Radiance in her normal (weakened) state, both in form and in her attacks.
Input on questions:
12:55 And the fact that the Soul Master was blackmailed by the Radiance to depravedly harvest and use Soul, a false cure for her Infection.
13:15 While the Archive was indeed a collective knowledgebase, there was information that not even she knew. There's also information about the construction of the Vessels that's found literally nowhere else.
14:04 The constant references to Radiance as nature/the light is irrelevant to this argument. The background of the Dream Realm brightening as each dreamer's seal breaks, is because that portion of the dream realm is connected between 4 beings: the 3 Dreamers, and THK. The Dream Realm has brighter portions apart from this, even before the first seal is broken: the initial space the Dreamers banished the Knight into (which Seer pulls them out of) is MUCH brighter. The way the dream nail is given confirms that it's a metaphysical object: it exists in both realms at once in some way.
15:21 The thematic references to the Sun are understandable, however during the writing of the Wanderer's Journal all references to the sun & moon were removed (we also don't know how the denizens of Hallownest measure lengths of time). There's also the fact that Dirtmouth is still considered to be underground.
lol
Thanks for watching! I'll address these points in an upcoming video, but really quickly:
I disagree that the Radiance never had physical form. The form we fight against is the same as the statue on the crown of Hallownest.
Also, the Seer calls the dream realm (where she finds the Knight) "the space between body and mind". We know the Radiance was exiled to the dream realm by her tribes defection, which seems like a stretch for a formless being.
As for the Seer calling her a light, she also calls the King that, and the King has a body.
The Infection is referred to as formless, but that's different than the Radiance herself.
Lastly, the most mundane reason is that the Radiance would be the single example of a formless higher power in the entire game. Apart from the void, but the formlessness of the void is specified and repeated endlessly across the lore.
@@errric_enniawl
The statue existing doesn't matter in the argument, as the Radiance's form also appears for a few frames upon the death of THK in the THK/Sealed Siblings endings. IRL, many statues of legendary beings were made despite them also never physically existing.
The dream realm is "the space between *body* and *soul* ", not "mind" , as told by Seer to the Knight when the latter is banished.
Nothing mentions Radiance being exiled to the dream realm at all, that's a fabrication: "How fickle my ancestors must have been. [The Moth tribe] forsook the light that spawned them. Turned their backs to it... Forgot it even. And so this kingdom was born from that betrayal."
Seer says that the Pale King appeared as "a light *that took the form of a king*". Even from the beginning, the Moths knew that he had a physical form, on top of the Cast-Off Shell existing until the events of the game take place. The Radiance doesn't have such remnants.
"The Infection is referred to as formless, different from the Radiance herself."
Except the Infection is quite literally an extension of her, and (as seen in Embrace the Void) ceases to exist when she is killed. PK says to THK in the Birthplace that it "shall seal the *blinding light* that plagues their dreams", with "their" meaning "the citizens of Hallownest". PK never describes the Radiance has having a physical form, nor Monomon, nor Bardoon; she is solely described as a light.
🌟Wow this is incredibly thorough I agree with almost everything you said except:
2:57 The Void itself may not be a higher being however it was still worshiped and treated as one and seams to poses similar great powers to that of a real Higher being such as: the ability to create life (stuff like the Collector and wing and kingsmoulds), the ability to manipulate soul or essence (such as the soul totems) and the ability to create sentience (such as the fact that a entire civilization grew to depend on it) .
on top of that the Shade lord is (by most standards at least) a higher being, one that the Ancient bugs were aware of since one of the shade beast's dream dialogs is: "...Lord of Shades... " . Void seams to be at the very least serve a similar purpose to most higher being even if it is not one.⭐
2:36 There is one piece of evidence that the the Radiance and her Moth tribe at one point may have fought the Ancient Civ and potentially ended it's existence. the Radiance's Dream nail dialogue: "...ANCIENT ENEMY..." this implies that one: the Radiance has known about the Void since ancient time's and and two: it considers the Void an enemy, Knowing that the Ancient Civ had similar goals and ambitions to that of the Pale king and that that the Radiance was way much back then that it's only a matter of putting the pieces in order.
Also the Hunter was not around during ancient time's and would never have know about the Ancient Civ at all.⭐
12:55 I believe that the third line is more fitting of THK then Soulmaster since he took up the role of a priest cleansing the light rather then a knight and his robe's are all but tattered by the point that we find him⭐
9:02 I do agree with Errric that this seams to fit PK rather then THK all things conciderd⭐
Other then these four thing I fully agree with your arguments and would love to hear what you think of mine :)🌟
@@crazedaze7256 The Void itself is not, nor was treated as, a HB. All of the "Void's" abilities you name were in fact done by other beings affecting Void, specifically the Pale King.
The ancient caste wasn't aware of the Lord of Shades, as that dream nail dialogue only appears AFTER the Knight obtains Void Heart and unifies the Void; something that to note has never happened before. It also conflicts with the Void Idol description I wrote about earlier, as well as the Shade Beast's first DN dialogue.
The Radiance's "ancient enemy", in the context of where the dialogue occurs, can either be referencing the Vessels or Void. Recall that we have no timeframe for the large majority of the game's events.
This plan to construct a timeline is excellent. I really think you’re doing a great job picking out details that other lore videos miss.
Regarding Myla’s song, I feel that your interpretation is correct, but the first line then implies something important. The white lady, soul master, and wyrm can all be considered major adversaries of the Radiance as all were involved in its imprisonment. However, the grey mourner doesn’t fit this trend, implying that whatever she was involved in was likely significantly harmful to the Radiance as this would keep the trend.
Regarding the solar radiance hypothesis, I don’t think there is sufficient evidence to make a strong case for it. The references to nature seem metaphorical, and the visuals in the dreamer backgrounds seem to be eluding to the fact that the radiance is radiant.
Although, I’d be happy to be disproven.
Thanks for watching and thanks for the feedback!
You know, I was so absorbed with parsing Myla's song that I totally ignored your point about how Ze'mer doesn't fit the "magnitude" of the other targets. Fantastic point!
Would you mind if I credit you when I bring this up in a future video?
@@errric_enniawl if you want to. I don’t feel it’s necessary if it interrupts the pacing of a video. Good luck with the project!
ok i know this video is old but i'd like to share my thoughts on this.
- the lifeblood creature is most likely a higher being.
- i think the Radiance was more of a benevolent, if easily angered, god when watching over her moth tribe. she only created the infection as a way to get revenge on the pale king. i don't believe she is the actual physical sun of Hallownest due to Team Cherry stating that the kingdom is completely underground. i think she only existed in the dream realm but that's just a headcanon. (this next part is also mostly a headcanon) the Radiance statue at the top was a shrine to her, and it couldn;t be removed due to the glyphs that acted as seals of protection. the reason that there were no radiance-related stuff in Crystal Peak is that the area was sacred and no bug-made structure could exist there. note that Hallownest's Crown does not have any crystals and is just rock with a shrine on top. the peak was the moth's territory, but it was used for pilgrimages to the shrine.
- your interpretation of Myla's song was interesting. i always thought the knight referred to THK. (i know THK is genderless but i don't think vessels care about pronouns) the priest referring to soul master is interesting, but my interpretation was that it was a moth priest who turned their back on her and instead worshipped the Plastic Fork.
- about the White Lady, i think that she came into Hallownest much later than Unn/Radiance/the others, but still before PK. this isn't really backed up by evidence but uh.
- also would you care to listen to my very depressing Myla theory? no? ok then bye
OH AND I FORGOT TO MENTION i think the ancient civilisation fought a war with the Radiance and her moth tribe and she won. also not supported by evidence but again, I DO NOT CARE. i have several other theories on these guys too so. uh.
*just saying*
Wait, I DO want to listen to your incredibly depressing Myla theory! Also the synergy with your username is perfect.
Thanks for watching!
@@errric_enniawl ok so it's not much but here goes:
both Bretta and Sly can be saved from the clutches of the infection, but Myla can't. why? *because she's already dead.*
it's a well known fact that the infection re-animates bugs, but this process is never described. it's possible that when a bug is reanimated, they don't show major signs of infection at first. while on the surface she doesn't seem infected, if you analyze her dialogue, her signs are clear. putting aside her songs of death, she is clearly obsessed with the crystals, which obviously have some connection to the Radiance. she also says that she can keep working without even sleeping. "it's fun!"
another quote from her is: "Keep whispering, crystals! I can almost hear what you're saying!" but maybe the voice she's hearing isn't the crystals...but the Radiance herself. it's already established in game that the Radiance can "speak" to infected bugs in their mind. we see this with Soul Master, and even Myla's own dreamnail dialogue when she starts to show visible signs of infection. perhaps Myla was drawn to the Crystal Peak, died there, and then, quoting the Hunter, "woke with [a] broken minds..."
then, as time progressed, the Radiance's voice became stronger in Myla's mind, until the innocent little miner was fully under her control...
additionally, her song may have come from the Radiance herself, either created by miners in similar situations to Myla or inside Myla's own infected mind.
so yeah that's my depressing and probably poorly explained Myla theory. i don't analyze stuff as in-depth as you do but i'd love to hear your thoughts on it!
also, thanks for asking me because i LOVE to rant about the lore and my own personal interpretations of it :)
This was an amazing video. The best part for me was your amazing editing, I hope you keep making videos like this
This video is very well put together - the timeline is just like a good novel and the editing is great. Can't wait for more!
Love this video! Can't wait for the next one to come out. 😊
I haven't even watched the video yet but I just want to comment that I hope you keep putting those out! There is never enough of hollow knight lore. And splitting it into timeline eras seems like a great concept to me!
Amazing video bro hope you continue this series it’s really high quality and if you keep up the quality I am sure your channel will really pop off I have never heard these ideas before so it’s exiting to watch something new about a idk like six year old game keep it up
Such a great video and you have an amazing voice! Kinda shocked you arent a bigger channel. I hope you get the success you deserve! Excited for more videos!
This is such a great video, appreciate your efforts and gotta respect that research. Can't wait for more.
Absolutely excited for the timeline videos. Greag job.
ive been looking for good lore videos on hollow knights lore that arent told in an abrasive way lol and im glad i found this! excited for your next video!
This video is awesome! How do you only have 1,7k subscribers?
I am looking forward to seeing this series continued!
I just found a undiscovered gem right here, amazing vid!
Bro thought he would have to rush making this series before silksong came out. That aged well ... 😞
Aghhh I'm so disappointed I missed this vid when you released it!
Never again! You're the first youtuber I'm turning notifs on for :)
Very thoughtful and insightful commentary here! I really like the way you string pieces of concrete evidence together and before I know it, you've knitted a beautiful sweater of "pseudo-canon" material that I've never considered, but have no strong argument against. I feel like you're a writer at heart, and you definitely have the same quality I do where if you love a story too much, you end up writing between the lines. That's not an insult at all! Nor am I saying that Team Cherry *didn't* put this level of thought into their art. I just mean to say it's really beautiful how at the end of the day, a story exists in YOUR head, and you're free to tie little bows wherever you want, and make things as neat and tidy as you need, even if it's not the most literal definition of "Canon."
I think that's the very nugget that inspires FanFiction, TBH. I think FanFics get a bad rep for being smut-fueled explorations of sexual dynamics (not that any of that is a bad thing,) but I've read (and written) tons of fics that just... fill in the gaps left by the writer.
A story can NEVER fill in every detail. It can never explain where every conversation happened, what the characters were wearing, and who said a funny joke that one time... That's for us to imagine! And I think that's why the reaction to videos like this are always extremely positive, or extremely negative. Folks either feel SEEN, or they see their own version of the story being smeared and sullied. I guess I understand why they lash out when they see their favorite parts of their favorite story being cast aside, but I encourage them to be kinder to both themselves, and the girl reading this. Because there's ALWAYS a human on the other end of a comment.
Anyway... good video! Write more, please.
🌟This is fantastic I really enjoy the effort and editing you put into your video's and I think that splinting up you ultimate timeline into multiple video's was a great idea, that way we can discuss things together as a community.
Any way here are my thought's on first Era of Hallownest(they are admittedly less consequential):
1:12 The Nightmare's Heart is also a higher being formed from the essence and deserves mention with the other higher beings of essence⭐
2:36 This may be a little speculative and not much evidence but the Radiance may have had a much bigger affect on ending the Ancient civilization then merely encroaching as one of the Radiance's dream nail lines read: "...ANCIENT ENEMY..." implying that this was not the first time that the moths(or at least the Radiance) fought the Void additionally the word "ANCIENT" is interesting as the only time its really used is when referring to the Ancient Civ, all this to say I think that There may have been a conflict between these two sides in the past resulting in the destruction/sealment of the Ancient Civ. (Side note it could have also just died out naturally similar to Ancient Rome IRL.)⭐
[TL;DR: The Radiance fought a war with the Ancient Civ which is why they were sealed and died out]
2:38 Although we only see evidence of the Moths in Crystal Peaks and Resting Grounds they could have also spread out even further then that, simply due to the Radiance's power at the time being completely unopposed at that time, I find it hard to believe that Unn whom is said to be one of the weakest higher beings we know of to have a bigger territory then that of Radiance who was able to go toe to toe with the Pale king at his height. also Markoth is said to have gone to kingdoms edge to try and "uncover a truth long forgotten" perhaps implying that the moth tribe once stretched into Modern day Kingdom's Edge.⭐
[TL;DR: The Moth tribe may have encompassed a much bigger area at one point potentially why they fought the the Anceint Civ]
3:45, 5:39 The White Lady couldn't have come from the Fog canyons since Fog canyons was a part of Greenpath at that time, we even see Greenpath foliage in Fog canyon including the room were you claim The White Lady came from, the Backgrounds could also very easily be explained away as just being the typical background of viny places especially condering the fact that the White Palace vines are a completely different color to that of the Gardens, and the White Lady herself. more likely The White Lady originated else were far away, as it is in never said that she came or lived in Hallownest and she could have easily only arrived during the Pale king's rule. (she is also often referred to as "Pale" which so far we have only ever seen come from outside the kingdom like the Pale King and the Pale Flowers)⭐
[TL;DR: The White Lady came from outside of Hallownest not from within]
11:41 my interpretation of the lyrics are as follows:
Bury the knight with her broken nail: this could refer less to a specific individual and more to the group as a whole
specifically the five great knights who are either dead hence the "broken nail" and are all knight's hence the "knight"
Bury the lady, lovely and pale: referring to the White Lady
Bury the priest in his tattered gown: referring to the Hollow Knight, who may have trained to be a knight but was not
called one, with priest being more applicable to his role as a cleanser of the infection and him indeed wearing a tattered
gown
The bury the beggar with his shining crown: Referring of course to the Pale king⭐
[TL;DR: Myla's song lyrics meanings:
Line 1: The five great Knights
Line 2: Pale Queen
Line 3: The Hollow Knight
Line 4: The Pale king]
13:09 I do believe that she must have had some part in planing it seeing as she was the head researcher and knew details about the plan that even Dung Defender didn't know ⭐
13:54 I doubt that she was literately the sun but I could definitely be a symbolic of one sun or maybe Themed around the sun⭐
Final thoughs I loved this I am soooo looking forward to part two all I would say is to please in the final super-cut just go over some basic rule's about the nature of Hollow Knigh's world, stuff like: higher beings, sentience, Mask's, wyrm's, ect..., you know basic stuff. Other then that 10/10⭐
[TL;DR: talk about the nature of Higher beings more in the supercut ]🌟
IT'S INCREDIBLE CAN'T WAIT FOR ANOTHER PART
i love this
Same
Glorious video, i thank you for making this
Commenting for the algorithm, been looking forward to this!
because no sun is visible in dirt mouth, i’ve been opening up any ant hole to try to find hallownest
This genuinely made me burst out laughing, thanks for watching!
This is absolutely amazing!
Great work nice voice to listen to, looking forward to the next video ❤
Another great video, I'm very happy to see someone who is so dedicated to HK lore and who isn't afraid to actually present their own theories with detailed evidence! Not to mention, your videomaking skills are very good, the visuals on this are very cool!
But I wanna ramble some more so I'm gonna talk about your White Lady theory. With all respect, I really don't think that the Overgrown Mound area was her old home. First, the thorn/root background is just something that gives us a depth perception in locations where those thorns are present; while it IS a cool theory that those thorns are WL's roots (because it would explain why there are thorns in the White Palace), it just kinda FEELS that they are unrelated. I mean, those thorns seem to have some kind of will (?) of their own, since we see them create a charm that seemingly doesn't relate to WL at all. The vines that hold this charm even look like some kind of hand with claws, which could indicate that they are somehow *focused* in there. Like the 'Void given focus' thing, perhaps? Also, I'm pretty sure that if those thorns had something to do with WL, there would be more white particles floating around them, even if they were implied to be the roots she decided to discard when sealing herself. They seem more like actual weeds that can spread anywhere, much like the Pale fern we see in crossroads and many other places (including White Palace!). Second, WL 'doesn't share (Unn's) dreams' meaning that her old home couldn't be located anywhere in modern QG is a completely valid argument. But this argument also implies she's not from Greenpath at all! And Fog Canyon probably was a part of Greenpath at some point. The Greenpath Moss™ is even still present in that area. So White Lady must have come to the QG parts of GP from somewhere else. Perhaps, from the Dream Realm? Or from outside the Kingdom, like the Wyrm? Lastly, Overgrown Mound area is still a pretty small place for WL (despite the fact that it's huge), who, if we overanalyze the Goodseeker's dialogue and background in p5, was a very, very large creature in her prime. The Mound fits perfectly with what environment snail shamans usually prefer than what a Pale Being would chose as her home. Sure, her current location is probably the result of the conflict between her and infected mantises, but her original location might not be even shown in the game. We actually don't know how far does the QG area stretch - the map just ends at the westmost corner of that location, and we don't see anything beyond that.
Oh boy I'm sorry for so much text. Those are just my own thoughts, and I of course don't think they are 100% objective. At the end of the day, I'm just glad I found a person whose cool youtube video gave me an excuse to ramble about the lore of my favorite game once again.
Also, I'm very sorry if there's any grammatical mistakes - English is not my first language, and I'm still trying my best to keep improving my skill.
Thank YOU for taking the time to write your thoughts! I'll properly respond later, because there's a lot to chew on here
Great video!
This was great!
Great video man! Cheers from Brazil!
Great work bud, despite this being an underrated channel, I hadn't heard a lot of these interesting theories in other places tbh, you did a great job! I'm excited to see what else you can cook up. Say, will the next few videos include some theories on the policies and actions the Pale King took? I feel that is a topic not touched very often.
Thanks! And yeah, you better believe I'm gonna talk about the King. I'm thinking about doing a non-timeline episode about the King and Queen because honestly they did some extremely messed up stuff.
Great Video💜
Amazing production quality giving how small this channel is
Great video! I subscribed
I love these vids, keep it up, big man errric
Great work, i would like to see your fruits of labor in the future.
Great stuff here!!
Great video, great explanation. It never stuck with me the recurring idea in videos of this sort that pre pale king era was dominated by infection when I didnt recall any concrete evidence of that, quite the contrary. I'm not that knowledged on Hollow Knight lore so I cant refute any claims in this video so I will just take it all, but it is fun to learn through your findings and discussions in the comments!
This is really good
awesome video
Great video
(sorry for bad English)
Actually, this Gardens-themed room in the Fog Canyon can simply be a transitional area. There are several rooms with mushrooms on the background in the City of Tears; upper part of the Ancient Basin actually belongs to the Waterways' map, etc. Such transitions are common in this game, so existence of a place similar to the Queen's Gardens in the Fog Canyon doesn't necessarily have some deep lore significance. Also correct me if I'm wrong, but I cannot remember anything actually pointing to the fact that the White Lady lived in Hallownest before the Pale King arrived there, so they could probably came to this land together.
Anyways, really great video with good analysis and interesting ideas; keep going
Whatever may or may not be true about this video, it's great to hear a new voice that differs from the "everything that mossbag says is canon" mantra
Hey if you check out my newest video it should give you a sense of how I'm reaching these conclusions. Thanks for watching!
I had this hypothesis while playing that the infection is connected with fungal spores (colour, gas form around, that fungus and Radianc are hivemind) and that spores help with spreading radiant infection. If it is obvious sorry.
How about Jiji ? She does hint serving a long time ago, wonders what would happen if she fell asleep again, was unknown to dirtmouth folks, and CAN SUMMON VOID SHADES AT WILL
also mentions her masters who "seek no order" and are of "different minds"
Since shes replaced by a steel baby thing in soul of steel, hopefully more lore can be uncovered in silksong
If the Queen's Gardens were once part of Greenpath, then she must have been somewhere before she was there, right? Did she appear/grow there? If so, why would she be apart from the rest of Greenpath? The White Lady is very mysterious, true, so it's hard to speculate on her origin without knowing a little more about higher and/or pale beings. And to be fair, I don't have any better explanation as to where she was before the King's arrival. Unless he created her? But there's no evidence for that. They are both Pale Beings tho...
The Radiance didn't necessarily live anywhere, did she? She doesn't seem to have a physical body. But the moths were, for sure, active in that area (citation: it's next to the Resting Grounds). And it just makes sense to build a statue to one's god at the highest available peak. Which is maybe why the moths *were* active in that area?
There's no real evidence for or against the crystals' light being the Radiance's, except Myla. That's the only place (apart from infected enemies) that there's orange in the Peak. So that seems a little weird. I sort of like to think that the crystals' energy is their own thing. Your particle thesis from the other video* shows no direct evidence of the Radiance having influence in the area. On the other hand, I guess if Light = Radiance, and the crystals have light (and they do), then crystals must be Radiance-associated. But other things glow. Soul =/= Radiance. Essence (a la whispering roots) =/= Radiance. So maybe Crystal Energy =/= Radiance. Idk. Just spitballing.
I think the Radiance is the literal personification of light. But does the world of Hallownest have a sun? Is Dirtmouth in a big cave or is it actually exposed to the sky? Even if it is, most of Hallownest is underground and will never see the sun. It's possible the sun exists only in the form of the Radiance, i.e. only in the dream realm, as an imagined ultimate light.
Anyone who bothered to read this: thanks for humoring my rambling :D
Cool lore video
Something I don’t see a lot of people discuss is Team Cherry mentioning that Hollow Knight takes place over one prolonged night. It’s quite possible that the stasis Hallownest is experiencing is more than just in the state of the kingdom, but over the time experienced within the kingdom itself. This stasis could maybe be quite literally actively preventing the day from returning, thus keeping The Radiance within the dream realm.
That’s at least my on-the-spot thoughts, I haven’t done much cross referencing here and am just going off memory, I could be wrong. I think the idea of The Radiance as at least something close to sun isn’t far fetched at all.
While I don't agree necessarily with some of your conclusions, my main thing is that I would have stated the known leaders are the last known leaders. Herrah and the Mantis Lords are very mortal and wouldn't have survived from the first age and the themes of forgetting in there. Otherwise, this is really, really cool.
i needed this so bad
I find that radiance is by nature change, every progression "The knight" makes towards Radiance her grasp over Hallownest becomes greater and greater, represented by the prevalence of the infection not just in Hollownest but in Myra as well. Hollownest is described as a city in stasis which might have been the main goal, I think of the famous Ozymandias poem "look upon my works ye' mighty and despair, nothing beside remained" The erosion of the deeds of the ruler were kept away by the every progression of change and the passage of time. We track time for the most part through days, through the rising and setting of The Sun.
If the Pale King was truly driving towards on a city unchanging or a city in stasis that I think he is then thinking that what better way to prevent the passage of time then to overpower time itself? There is a reason why we never see the sun when in Dirtmouth, there is a reason why Radiance's statue overlooks Dirtmouth just as it would while the sun is out, there is a reason why Radiance is "forgotten".
If Radiance is similar to time then it makes sense for it to be related to both the sun and dreams. The Godseeker calls Radiance the "core of dreams and minds", so Radiance as the sun would watch her subjects during the day, and be with them in their dreams at night. That is why Myla becomes infected despite not sleeping; she is basking in the Radiance's light trapped within the crystals!
Sorry for the text block, got in a flow...
i do like the idea that the radiance was once the sun, it would explain why it's always so dark and gloomy on the surface
I love this video! Thank you for bringing up the pre-King era. Your words about the Pale King being a "dude who never shies in singing himself praises" reminds me of Tumblr user Feralphoenix's theories, where PK's takeover mirrors real life colonization, which may reflect how indigenous cultures in Australia (where Team Cherry is from) is wiped out by colonizers.
Let me explain. A lot of Hollow Knight fans take the King's lore tablets at their word, that Hallownest is the "first and only" civilization. But that's clearly not true, as you (errric) said: the Hivelings, Spiders, Mosskin, Mantises, Mushrooms, and Moths were civilizations before the King. Just because they didn't have modern technology (stagways, huge buildings, trams), does *not* mean they weren't civilized.
(This is what feralphoenix meant by parallels to colonization; ancient non-white civilizations were considered "uncivilized" despite having a society, buildings, and their own sort of tech. As an extension to both your and Feralphoenix's theories, I conclude that bugs before the King's light *were* sentient. The "everyone was mindless before PK gave them sentience" is propaganda.)
Why do I say propaganda? Well, like you said, errric, "PK loves singing himself praises", so it's not a stretch to conclude that Hallownest *does* have propaganda. Especially for a king that wants to be worshipped.
now to answer your questions...
- Myla's song: I actually agree with you on the conclusions you got!
- The Radiance being the light whose power is stored in the crystals: oh yeah. I agree too. this brought me to feralphoenix's theory again, where sacred places are turned into moneymaking places due to colonization (Crystal Peak being the moths' favorite place to see Radiance's light, turned into a treasure hunting place to get rich in PK's era).
I'm not big on Radiance being the *literal* sun (except as an energy source because crystals), but *metaphorically*, yeah. Being worshipped.. being on top of the underground... the symbolism of her being light, orange, and drawn as the sun, and the Dreamer sky and final boss fight being sunrise... her pushing back the void (her ancient enemy, because why else would she say that when fighting the Knight?)... I think it checks out.
Also, since the Radiance is shown to be highly selfish (see: wanting single-minded worship, especially after the infection), it wouldn't have been hard for her to push back the void-worshippers, especially since the Void cannot fight back, has no will, and isn't necessarily a higher being ("power without unity").
- Monomon: I think she *might* have joined in the Vessel-building activity, since she also did the prototypes (jellies), *and* because of her skepticism, up to her contingency plan in getting the mask to Quirrel and out of Hallownest. I don't really have evidence for it, but if she made the prototypes, why wouldn't she be involved in the actual thing? Although, I guess she doesn't have to be, since the King never acknowledged her in any way, shape, or form.
haha, thank you for reading thus far! I know my comment was long. But I hope it was alright xD
My guy wrote an entire English class essay in yt comments
Love this. The pure irony of Hallownest being the only civilisation gotta be some of the best writing seen in a videogame ever.
Oh, how didn't I know the Shriek pedestal had a D. Nail dialogue
Great video and i think the 17 min part that was not added should be sperate video
Oh shit thus is gonna be hype
i think crystal peak was a volcano i mean theres statues all over the map kinda like pompeii and a raidience like creature at the top i presume to be frozen
You planning to continue the series?
I think the third line of the song could refer to the Hollow Knight itself. I mean the dude must've pisse dof the radiance pretty badly. Also he's locked away in a temple where bugs used to go to feel better and say their prayers.
Very interesting video! Lots of neat editing! 👍
I like the idea of the sun! Maybe this is digging too deep but I think the evolution of deities in hollownest could be mirroring man's own evolution of religion. From the sun and nature (things outside of control) to more man orientated religions. The Wyrm does claim to give them mind! Just a random thought
good video
Maybe the radiance is the sun, upon her being trapped dirthmouth the only place on the ground, shrouded in forever darkness, a night eternal.
In your opinion, why are there soul totems in White palace, did they learn to make their own totems or did the bugs from the abyss make them?
Whoa that's a very good question! My initial reaction is that just like in the Soul Sanctum, they were brought into the palace. However, I vaguely recall that the ones in the palace aren't built the same way as the rest of them, so that might not line up.
I will think about this and include my answer in an upcoming video. Thanks for watching and for the interesting question!
love the knig entrace
thanks! No cap I spent way too much time on it, but I liked how it came out.
I believe the Radiance is a vessel for the Light; perhaps a moth who somehow harnessed the Light within herself, or perhaps she's a hollow vessel that the moths created to give the Light "focus," to turn it into their ideal god. Void is just this powerful substance which can be "given focus and form" by bugs, so the Light could be like that too, just a powerful substance that requires a form to give it focus. When the Radiance is beaten in both the regular and godhome endings, the shade of the Hollow Knight pries open the Radiance's face revealing a light *within* her. Then the knight smacks the light until the Radiance is consumed.
Hey, nice video.
Maybe the Void Worshippers were always fated to die out and fade into oblivion. In my opinion, Void is a manifestation of that oblivion itself. An eventual, inescapable force that will eat up every last being that once lived to dream, be them higher or not.
That's why, when attuned by the Godseeker, it becomes such a frightening and ineffably powerful thing. It's all of that death and darkness unified and focused into one godly being like no other. A higher being made of void. The ultimate form any being could hope to achieve, possibly.
I don't think the radiance was the actual sun of this world but i don't doubt she'd depict herself with sun imagery to make herself seem more important and impressive to her followers
(Re: 05:39 - The Root's Roots) I think this is the weakest explanation.
At this point in the timeline, before the Pale King, Unn's domain was much larger, including what we now call Greenpath, Fog Canyon, and Queen's Gardens. In your map you acknowledge this, covering all 3 areas with the same color... except your bit in the middle around overgrown mound where you think the Root was? The way I see it that entire area should be Unn's, with nothing for the Root yet. There aren't really any beings that seem to be the Root's creation, unlike the mossy beings for Unn, and the mothy beings for the Radiance, so I question whether the Root even had any territory at this point before the Pale King's arrival. I don't even see any evidence that the Root was even anywhere in Greenpath/Fog-Canyon/Queen's-Gardens before the Pale King. She might have just moved there once she had the status that comes from being Queen, because she thought it was the nicest-looking place in her kingdom.
The Mister Mushroom Riddle Tablet doesn't give exact locations anyway. It says "beside the source of acid blight" for a place in Kingdom's Edge that's just sort of near Isma's Grove. It saying "root's domain" for a place in Fog Canyon that's just next to Queen's Gardens is consistent with that lack of precision.
The Riddle Tablet probably doesn't say "Queen" for the same reason it doesn't say "King" when talking about King's Pass. Mister Mushroom recognizes that kingdoms fall and titles like King and Queen are changable as ages pass.
Thanks for the feedback! The only thing you're not addressing here is the preponderance of the Queen's plants in caverns that are in Fog Canyon (according to the map).
Also, the Mr Mushroom lore tablet doesn't say "king" because that's not where the King entered Hallownest from, he "entered" from the Wyrm's shell.
Regardless, I'm adding your objections to the list so I can respond to them in video, probably in my upcoming 1k subscribers video.
If after considering your points I can't convince myself of my initial argument, I'll change that section of the timeline supercut and give you credit (assuming you're cool with that).
Out of curiosity: where do you think the Root was before the King arrived? I couldn't find any other place that made sense or had any evidence of her existence.
Thanks for watching!
@@errric_enniawl The appearance of the root is an extremely good question. I don't have any strong ideas, but here's some interesting notes:
- The root must have been near maturity at the peak of pk's power.
- The root is a plant, so maybe it was originally a spawn of Unn? just transformed at some point.
- The root is also pale/white, which seems to show some fundamental connection to the wyrm. Either transformed by the wyrm, or originating from the same place as the wyrm.
- something interesting I just realized: the plantlife in kingdom's edge looks quite similar to the white lady (bright white, glowing branches). Maybe the root originated from the shell of the wyrm just like pk, and later became a being which could move beyond it's roots.
@@Ender-vx8zq I never noticed that but that's a great point The Pale King could very much have brought the White Lady to life or transformed her into who she is now, I always just assumed she came from where ever Ze'mer came from due to the her delicate flowers being "Pale" or some other place
@@Ender-vx8zq The plantlife in kingdom's edge is an interesting idea. But I think it's more likely that that "pale grass" is just related to the Pale King and not necessarily the White Lady.
So it gave me the idea to look for other areas with similar looking "pale grass" that wouldn't be explained by the Pale King, and would need to be explained by another pale being like the White Lady?
The grass in Greenpath, Fog Canyon, and Queen's Gardens is all green, the color of Unn, so this idea doesn't lend any support to the White Lady being from any of those areas.
Looking at Skurry's Grass% Speedrun for how the grass looks in all the areas, there is white grass in King's Pass, Forgotten Crossroads, a bit in Blue Lake next to Crossroads, Kingdom's Edge, and White Palace.
The pale grass in Kingdom's Edge and White Palace can be explained by the Pale King, but what about the areas around Crossroads? I guess The Hollow Knight itself is part pale being, but I have doubts about that. The White Lady has been in Queen's Gardens for longer than the Hollow Knight has been in Crossroads, but there's no pale grass spreading around Queen's Gardens, only larger branches limited to coming directly from her.
Could the white grass around Crossroads then be evidence of the White Lady's influence from long ago before the Pale King arrived? I don't know. I still wouldn't be confident enough to put that as her domain in this era, but I'd rather think she's from there or Kingdom's Edge or even beyond the kingdom than think she was from any part of Unn's domain.
@@errric_enniawl Inspired by another comment by @Ender, I found another person's lore speculation on how the White Lady might be connected to the Pale Ferns in Forgotten Crossroads. In the Wanderer's Journal, on p. 19, Ellina calls them Pale Ferns, and in mossbag's review video on that, he says this:
begin quote:
the journal makes a note of these strange plants, calling them pale ferns.
now anytime something is called pale, we immediately have to think of the pale beings.
in the kingdoms edge, we can see something similar to the pale ferns growing out of the ground.
there are also these strange vines that expand outwards.
these seem to be sprouting from where the wyrm's corpse can be found.
as for why anything like this would be growing in forgotten crossroads, I have no idea.
is this from the white lady?
Ellina seems to think that it's just natural, so maybe that's the case.
end quote.
This is just a single throwaway line of speculation, said with so little confidence that the very next sentence covers the possibility that it might be completely wrong, so this does *not* confirm that the Root / White Lady was in what we now call Crossroads during the era before the Pale King. However, I think it does support the idea that we can't assume the Root was anywhere in Greenpath / Fog Canyon / Queen's Gardens during that era.
One of my own Theory isgoing of the crowns, radiance with three spikes resemble the third ruler of hollownest, Pale king with four along with the pure vessel, the knight with two which is a vessel of the shade lord in a way, and the shade lord with god knows how many showing that the shade lord, is the forever king, and the first king is probably a specie of miners who made the entire land.
Holy crap that's such a cool take, and never once crossed my mind
The argument of the radiance being the sun seems far more compelling to me. The crystal argument even works with it if the crystals just store the suns light
I really like it as well but my issue with it is that this would imply she is also the sun of the rest of the world, which we know not to be the case (as at least in pharloom, there is no mention of the radiance so far, same with the land of storms - if the radiance truly was the sun, the godseekers would have known of her too.
first of all great video, I hope to see more soon. 11:54 Here is my answer to your “solar Radiance” theory:
It is logical to amuse the Radiance to be the sun. All Higher Beings have a physical body and that of the the Radiance is allude to be the missing Sun of Hallownest.
But it was not the sun that was sealed away by the Pale King it was the infection. I think that the Radiance her self believes to be the sun not understanding her origins, and that it the crown of Hallownest it is the infection.
Let me explain:
First my understanding of the infection and its inspiration to our real life natural world.
The appearances of the infection, the bright color and creeping body seem to be based on slime molds. The infection turning its hosts in to zombies is to me without doubt inspired by parasitic mushrooms like the Cordyceps, that infect insects and take control over its (still alive) hosts. And as last the light of the infections is like a form of bio-luminescence a evolutionary adaptation and a effective way to lure in nocturnal insects like moths (to a flame).
Now back to the lore of the game.
With these connection from nature i assume that the infection started out as a parasitic mushroom specializing in moths as its host, luring them with light. And through its hosts the infection eventually found a way to get inside the dream, and so it formed a spiritual contention. The infection stared to understand their believes and heard their prays, believing it self to be the recipient. From this it gained and ego, the Radiance. Now having a consciousness anchored in the dream her original mushroom body was noting more but an extensions of her self to her followers.
This old body was eventful replace by the spreading of her image and word alone. But during the events of the game she has just starting to break free from her bonds and in desperation has regressed back to her old way, from God back to Parasite. Reanimating corpses taking control of animals all to gain every grain of power back.
P.S
There is one thing that bothers my to all of this and that is the nocturnal nature of moths, so why the worship of a sun god? To me the its counterpart the moon is more suitable for moths to worship. However parasites are also prone to mimicry so maybe the infection started out as a imitator, and the prays of the moths ware not intended to the sun above but moon below, but that is an hole new rabbit hole.
Myla was mining towards a golden light, such as the one that comes from the radiance, but if the radiance came from the crown of hollownest, why would there be a golden light so far down underground, and not anywhere else? The rest of crystal peaks has only purple light, so what is myla mining to? I think that maybe the radiance came from somewhere around resting grounds or maybe even blue lake, and that glow is from where she originated? Just speculating I do not have any actual evidence for this claim.
2K SUBS GG
🎉 I can't believe it, seriously. Y'all are amazing
I wonder if priest could be referencing the moss prophet? Who ended up well, dead?
I don't think the radiance is the sun, exactly, but i like the idea that she's perhaps a manifestation of the sun as a concept. as in the radiance came into being as a representation of what the sun _means_ to hallownest. it's a bit abstract and i don't know if im explaining it well, though
I think that radiant and radiance sound simmilar but i don't have a theory why
I don’t really know weather the Radiance was the Sun or not, I just think that the Radiance is sealed inside of her statue at Hallownests Crown, on the sole factor that you can dreamnail it.
What about dashmasters statue?
Video structure inspired by Game Theory Fnaf timeline right?
I'd like to know where Deepnest having a king came from.
You're right, I didn't explain that. I'll explain in depth in an upcoming video but for now:
Every mention of Herrah includes the fact she's a common beast.
The weavers call Hornet "princess" but don't call Herrah "queen"
The fungal waste lore tablet calls Herrah's consort "once of honoured caste"
Ymmv but that's what I can remember off the top of my head
its there even a statue of the radiance at the crown of the world?
Do you have a Patreon, would love to support.
hey. wheres part 2?
Great video, very solid research. I have never made a connection between Ze'mer and Myla's song.
That first line, about the knight, is definitely the most confusing. I thought it may refer to Hornet, who is Hallownest's protector, and the only living heir to the throne, but then why doesn't the knight mentioned bear a needle?
I believed it may refer to either The Knight (Little Ghost) or the Hollow Knight itself, but then why would it misgender them?
The game is fully consistent with calling them both by it/its pronouns, so why would the Radiance use a different one? She obviously had to know, right?
I had also considered Dryya, killed by the traitors, fighting in defense of the Queen, but had to wonder why a song so clearly hinting at the game's core lore would mention anyone so unimportant to the main story in the first line?
I think these two theories, if flawed, are still viable. The inconsistencies can be blamed on Team Cherry, who, as early artwork of the Crossroads from HK beta suggests, didn't yet have a clear picture of the Hollow Knight's story at this point in the development.
What about the snail shamans?
IM NO BEGGAR!!
But... What does that specific rock we see in dirtmouth have to do with the lore? Ot was put there for a reason for sure
👍
I would like to cut with the fluff, please. 0:41
I wonder how would the void worshiper look
Honestly, I think they look like the Snail Shamans. I can't remember all of my reasonings from my notes, but off the top: we learn the void versions of 2 of the spells from them, they're all black creatures, they are really comfy being around the ancient soul totems, and the whispering root in the first mound we come across (I think) says something about a forbidden power.