22 Nosler - Part 4 - Bring in the ringer (69gr SMK)
Vložit
- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Today we pull out my favorite bullet, the 69gr Sierra Match King, in the hopes that it will solve our accuracy issues. The test powders are Hodgdon Varget and VihtaVuori N140.
UPDATED 09/27/2018 - All links have been removed to comply with CZcams content policies.
www.patreon.com/reloading
I thought the whole point of Nosler 22 was a higher velocity than 223
He's shooting heavy bullets. I'd say those are faster than a 223 shooting 69 grain.
Check back with me once I have the gun running properly and work up my own proper max load. I'm gonna get this bitch hummin.
Aaron Anderson all my max loads of 77 223 loads avrg 2700 to 2750 h335
I had same issues with leaving gouges on brass in my Sig Sauer 223, I used a brass chamber brush on drill & it worked perfectly after that.
Johnny's Reloading Bench those pressure signs seem very strange is all
Everybody can use a little meditation in their life. Thanks for putting in some real work on your channel. JRB is by far my favorite reloading channel.
Lol that bit with 8541 was great.
Glad to see you getting some good groups! Glad to see some N140 work as well!
The brass seems to be a common. Problem across the board with the 22 Nosler. I don't believe after the chamber polishing that the case heads have anything to do with the barrel. If you Google search 22 Nosler brass being chewed up, you see that it's across the board with barrel manufacturers.
If you want to tame the damage to the rim, I would radius the ejector, remove the o-ring from the extractor, and get rid of the aggressive "claw" on the extractor.
I did this to my Grendel bolt, and my brass looks brand new after 8 firings.
I agree you shouldn't have had to polish the chamber, especially coming from a great company like Odin Works, and I bet that's all they would have done if you would have sent it to them right off.
Love the scope view. I can't imaging how much that added to post production but it definitely adds to your video.
Excellent videos. These reloading issues are a real pain in the butt. Love how you are blazin a new trail.
I agree send it back. And maybe pick up a box or two of factory ammo to test with for when It comes back.
Nice shooting JRB. Those are my two favorite powders, they always perform.
Hey Johnny, I have a way to help focus the scope camera. Set the parallax to 500 and point the gun at something really close. Then focus the camera on the reticle and then adjust scope for parallax.
Congrats man! Sierras are always good for me too. This has been a fun and painful journey.
That N-140 was kicking ass, it just made my list of powders to try
Anyone else cheer when he started to get dialed in?
I stumbled upon your videos today randomly. I am having the same exact issues TO THE T with 308 ar I built and run suppressed. I have tried everything. Sent barrel and bolt back to manufacture and everything checked out. They sent new barrel with rifle length gas system to reduce gas port pressure. I have adjustable gas block. I bought heavy buffer as well as sprinco heavy spring. I am still having the same exact beat up brass symptoms you are having. Even with loads no where near max listed loads.
The best I can figure is that the pressure is so high at the gas port with a can that the bolt is trying to extract early while the brass is still expanded in the chamber, causing rough extractions and the bent rims and ejector gouges you and me are experiencing.
I'll continue to look for your videos to see if you have any luck.
Glad you're going to circle back to the Nosler. To be honest, I didn't expect the Sierra to shoot any better.
I know you've got plenty on your plate already, but how about a 68-70 grain shootout using N140? - Hornady vs Nosler vs Sierra vs Berger vs Lapua?
You can take a resized case drill and tap the primer pocket and make a lap out of that. Use fine lapping compound and go slow this will smooth out the chamber. Make sure you clean the barrel very thoughly. Good luck.
Did little more testing 22 nosler added weight rifle length buffer did help out a bit. Still had Ejector marks with a few cases bent even low charges. Bends coming from ejector area thinking in Cutting the spring down reduce the ejector marks and bends. Extractor bends over gassed
Some of those are really nice groups, and they may have been even better off bags. I'm not really seeing a problem with the barrel any more, because there is consistency there. Seems like you did a great job on the chamber. It's interesting that gas didn't seem to matter. The damage looks like it's caused by the bolt and especially the extractor. Interesting vid.
My feeling is this, I'm glad that you have decided to send it back. To me, it's like Buying a new car if you are driving it home and a problem develops, Yes, you can spend money to fix it, However, it came that way from the dealership or Factory and if they told you something like "All you have to do is rebuild the fuel injection system come back after doing that and we will Talk about it" That would be totally unacceptable. True? Maybe it makes me rilled up seeing what companies say it is the best. Good luck with Odin Gun Works, they should make it right.
When you send the barrel back, include some of that brass.
You've got plenty of room for more velocity. According to their website, they're getting 2950 fps from their factory 77 Custom Competition load, so I'd expect to be able to work up to at least 3000 fps with the 69 grain bullets. You're still 150 fps below that level. And although they developed the cartridge to be an AR cartridge, they're offering a factory bolt gun in the chambering. Seems to be an identity crisis.
The heavier buffer might help a lot by slowing down the bolt unlock. Might be worth a try. You got me wanting to try some Vihta Vouri powder now.
Send the barrel back to Odin. In the 6.5 Grendel world there has been reports of out of spec. chambers. But, they have took care of the problems quickly. My 20in Grendel barrel is a 1/2 moa shooter.
Hi Johnny. Could the rim issue be caused by the fact it is a rebated rim? It has to be adding stress to that smaller rim pulling out a larger case.
I have an Oden works 20 inch barrel & BCA in 6.5 Grendel, mine shoot quite well (Under an inch 100 yards) so far I have only shot Hornady Black ammo in it. (123 gr red tip). Looking at the brass I have, there are some small dings on the edge of the rims, and a few of them. I use a catch bag on the side of my rifle to catch the brass (It stops annoying my fellow shooters at the range).
You could try to take apart the bolt head, remove the extractor and spring, then polish the face of the bolt, but I think it is just caused by the added stress of the rebated rim.
I would just used some 600 sandpaper (Or higher) and just polish it off, just except that is it going to flow some brass.
Just my two cents worth......
You need to get a lead sled. I had the same problem until I got one and my grouping shrunk down to where I love going to the range to show off my custom rifles make one jagged dime size hole at 100 yards.
Noveske has them listed under their lo-pro 556 barrel. Look at 18" length and they list a 22 Nosler option.
Check the reviews on midways sight. I read a review on complete uppers and one guy had same issue. They said it was something to do with "adjustable gas block" ripping up brass. It was one of ar stoner upper reviews
I suspect part of the brass problem is higher brass thrust on the bolt face. The .420 brass has the same support aria as the .378 case resulting in a back of the envelope calculation of 25% more thrust witch it looks like brass is not hard enough to support. Aria of pressure in a 223 case is .378 minus 15 thousandths case thickness and a Nosler case diameter or .420 minus 15 thousandths gives about 25% difference. Just my 2 cents worth.
Vihtavuori for the win :)) good vid JRB!
Yes I would like to see what the 69 gr. Noslers do with vihtavuori powder.
I'd love to see what the Factory 22 Nosler 70gr RDF load does in this rifle, and then see what you're able to work up with that bullet both in 223 and 22 Nosler as a comparison to factory ammo.
I'd be ordering a white oak....
I would definitely try a heavier buffer first.
i have seekings bolt that chews brass like that seems to be getting better more rounds through
Same results with 2 bolts? Looks like headspace / chamber reamed a smidge to deep. The rough machine cut might be an indicator of a dull reamer.
Like to see something in 6mm for the next test bed. Keep the great vids going!
Love your videos btw
Stop using the suppressor. They build back pressure. Its in there nature. That's the main reason for adjustable gas blocks. Next start measuring depth of your primers seating. .004 nominal. You must crack the primer compound for consistent ignition. Measure factory loads primer depth. But most of all use factory loadings to set base standard for all load testing. These will tell a lot of information on the overall condition of your barrel chamber and bore pressure. Lyman load books explain primer seating best. Your primer pockets really need to be cut to same depth. I use a modified ram prime that has a feed system with an adjustable depth setting. Lee ram prime I I. Not made any longer because so many people blew them up. I (knock on wood) have never blown a primer with it, smashed a few , but have loaded over hundred thousand rifle, pistol rounds on it. I did modifie it for my use but rcbs makes good ram prime with no feeder that works great. The hand primer you use is good also but depth depends on feel and that requires a lot of patients. But you can do it.
Hope you get the scope cam tuned in.
You can used necked down 6.8 SPC brass if you buy a bolt head. Federal and Hornady also make brass for that cartridge. I know it gives up the magic of using the 223 bolt face, but it isn't a terrible trade off. Less than $100 to make the switch.
Justin McBurnett ¿Que pasa? You're gonna have to explain that a little more
Lucas Gardner the 22 nosler's parent case is a 6.8 SPC just necked down to .224" and has a rebated rim. They used the rebated rim so they can use a standard ar bolt. If you decide to use 6.8 SPC brass that you neck down to .224 you will need to use a 6.8 SPC bolt as the case rim diameter is larger.
This sounds like a good test. I am not married to the 223 bolt face.
Justin McBurnett but the trim length of a 6.8SPC is almost 100 thousandths shy of the Nosler...Nosler also put out literature stating that the SPC was in fact not the parent case and that it was designed from the ground up. I like the idea of the 6.8 case being used because there's plenty of good brass out there for it but I'm not sure it would work
After that, I figured that I would add that all the other Nosler proprietary cartridges are based off of .404 Jeffrey brass, and I also have the wiki article (I realize this isn't the most credible source) detailing the development of the Nosler proprietary cartridges, including 22, 26, 28, 30 and 33 Nosler en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nosler_proprietary_cartridges
I have been doing some research on this cartridge and barrels and there seems to be a lot of problems with the brass getting beat up when ejected from all barrel brands.
Nothing wrong with your barrel Im in the same boat with my 22 nosler. My brass looks identical to yours loading inside the nosler load data. Light charges even leave extractor marks. It's the small diameter case head of a 223 and adding the additional pressure with 25% more powder. There is no fixing the issue unless someone makes some different brass. It's really disappointing for a handloader to not get brass life with this round. The brass costs double of 223 and your not going to get the normal life out of it.
My opinion I would send that back to Odin works and snag the other cheaper barrel and test it and when ya get your stuff figured out do a giveaway on which ever one you don't keep stay cool stay classy and tight groups bub
Question, can a adjustable gas block affect velocity. Meaning if the block is closed down will velocity be higher?
I know your happy with your press but when are you go to get a progress press
I load my 223 with 25grains of varget when running 69SMK's. I'm pretty much averaging 3k FPS with a 22" barrel bolt gun. got me curious to see how this load would shoot in a 18" 223. would I lose enough to warrant getting a 22 nosler upper?
Yup, send it back. A new 300.00 barrel you shouldn't have to fix.
Have you checked your bolt face I was having the same issue with brass and found out there was a burr in the edge where the bolt face was machine for the extractor and digging into the brass when firing
he has used 2 different bolts though and both had the issue. one was brand new out of the box and the other was proven to work as it had come out of his white oak .223 gun
Give us the coyote loads we all want man
I have noticed that I get more movement and wobble out of my GGG bipod than I do my Harris. May try a Harris set up.
I thought the whole point of 22 nosler was to be a super fast 223. I got 223 that hits 3200 at the muzzle. Can someone explain what the actual advantage of 22 nosler? I thought it was supposed to be advertised a minimum of around 3300fps. Try some factory ammo just to get a base line of what it should shoot
Any chance it could handle 90gr at mag length? or even 80 VLD's?
send it back, wait for 277
What was the brand of Polish you used when cleaning up the feed ramps?
J-B Bore Cleaning Compound
Not sure they offer 22 nosler, but Satern barrels shoot lights F&%$ing out, please put them on the list.
Midway had a stoner upper for $200 yesterday.
That's not going to be a cheap cal to shoot on brass
Man it sounds like Odin really just had a bad run with their tooling for the bolt and the barrel!
So, the lessons to be learned here are: 1. The 22Nosler has no advantage over 5.56, and 2. Odinworks barrels are crap. Next.
can u do 300wm plz?????
Isn't brass flow into the ejector hole a sign of over pressure?
wbbh Yes. I posted a comment yesterday about the MidwayUSA reviews on that brass and they all point to it being super soft
It makes sense, especially since the primers don't appear to expand into the recess that surrounds them.
lucas, i think they may have done that intentionally so you could get more reloads, kinda like the WSSM or similar shorty's, that's a lot of heat on the case when that primer goes off, if they weren't softer, after a few rounds they would start spliting, i guess it's easier to make the brass softer, then to anneal them after every shot, but i'm just guessing here, i would assume but you know what that means! (ass-u-me), so i try not to assume anything!
Nosler just needs to pay you off lol
I wasn't impressed with this cartridge was introduced. If you want a heavier bullet and stay with the same setup try either a 25-45 Sharps or a .277 Wolverine. I'm getting 3100 fps from Barnes 80gr ttsx out of my Sharps barrel. Using LC 5.56 brass and run through a 25-45 die and your golden! More velocity, more energy, inexpensive and plentiful brass; NO downside!
do you know if there are any leadfree bullets in 25-45 sharps?
That's pretty low velocity for a round designed to nip on 22-250 heels
Seeing the 55gn loaddata on noslers site, they barely outrun a 5,56 NATO load
Helpful video.
I think your gas system is too short. Even with the adjustable gas block you're still getting too much of a spike too early. I think the rifle is trying to extract the brass before it has a chance to contract.
You also have a fairly tight chamber. With the full length resize are only bumping it back a couple thousands, that's kind of tight.
With everything added up together, I think you're running into stacking issues
G.I. Company I have the same barrel, they're full rifle length gas systems
he could add a heavier buffer to slow the dwell time down to fix this same problem
Lucas Gardner the problem is how much powder is in the case compared to the bore diameter. Not enough of the powder has burned before reaching the gas port. Because of the case dimensions and the way the powder, 18 inches is really not enough barrel length. This system is a lot like having an SBR in 5.56. He would have better extraction by slowing down his dwell time. Using a pigtail gas tube would be the best, but he could also just get a heavier buffer.
G.I i think your right on the gas, i would just go with a piston and eliminate the gas issue period.
shotdog Pistons actually speed up dwell time. It would make his problem worse. The solid steel rod reacts faster then compressible air.
so in reality, these are 5.56 NATO velocities for 69 gr projectiles. No advantage going to 22 Nosler.
Give the man some time, dang people!!!
These are Minimum starting loads he's using at the moment.
Your cheating the powders and the whole setup by changing the gas block in the middle of your string . Good video, keep shooting buddy .
You didn't give Nosler 69 grain a fair shake. In this video you worked up loads and in the others you just pulled loads out of your butt. With working up loads with the Nosler you might have gotten great groups. So you are not comparing apples to apples for accuracy.
I have never liked Nosler brass.
Personally it seems like a waste of time and money.
Where is the benefit?
U must be retired