PC Fan Engineering, Noise, & GPU Coil Whine | Engineering Discussion ft. NVIDIA
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- čas přidán 11. 05. 2024
- Sponsor: DeepCool Assassin IV CPU Cooler on Amazon - geni.us/a0Zx
In this next addition to our engineering deep-dive series, we talk with Malcolm Gutenburg, a thermal engineer at NVIDIA (and formerly Intel). This video goes deep with acoustics engineering as it relates to thermal design, so we talk about finding and identifying coil whine with lasers, fan blade design and engineering, critical bands and one-third octave bands for data presentation, and tone-to-noise prominence ratio. The discussion also gets into psychoacoustics and the structure of the inner ear.
Watch our engineering interview with Noctua previously! • The Forbidden Noctua I...
Watch our video cutting the RTX 4090 cooler in half previously, also ft. Malcolm! • Cutting an NVIDIA RTX ...
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TIMESTAMPS
00:00 - The Science of Fan Noise Engineering
02:23 - Lasers for Coil Whine Noise
05:00 - Measurement Equipment & Software
05:51 - The Acoustic Chamber
06:28 - Why Use a Hemi-Anechoic Chamber
07:23 - Fan Blade Engineering
09:11 - Angle of Attack, Blade Count
12:10 - Hub Size Engineering
13:52 - Stall Region Whiteboard
19:03 - Test Setup & Microphones
23:28 - "Below 0dB" Explained & Fully Anechoic
27:43 - Extremely Technical Acoustic Discussion
31:03 - Psychoacoustics & Ear Structure
34:33 - Ray Tracing Sound in Engineering
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Steve Burke: Host, Video Editing
Vitalii Makhnovets: Camera, Editing
Guest: Malcolm Gutenburg, Thermal Engineer at NVIDIA - Hry
Our next installment in our engineering interview series we've been doing this year! These have been crazy educational - can't wait to do more! I have no idea how this video will perform since it's tough to title with all the topics, but it's such a great technical discussion that we're hoping people see it. If this interests you, you'd definitely like our engineering interview with Noctua previously! czcams.com/video/82LZkglNiQ0/video.html
We self-fund all our travel for these events to retain full control over the reporting process! To help support our next engineering interviews, grab a GN Modmat, Soldering Mat, or shirt here! store.gamersnexus.net/
Or watch our video cutting the RTX 4090 cooler in half previously, also ft. Malcolm! czcams.com/video/g4lHgSMBf80/video.html
Does temperature effect acoustic properties/performance of the fan ? This is so interesting. Thank you so much!
Do we really need engineering knowledge to understand a fan sucks in the warm air from the computer and blows it outward?
You need to get an EU store / HQ / Warehouse , so people are paying 100$ for a 50$ product as an example, import fees from American stores are huge.
And before anyone comments, BUT murica, yes you're a small country compared to all of Europe where we match Murica by 2½ times the population and have way more spending capital, so any american company that wants to super thrive needs to have a EU warehouse.
These are awesome! Makes me glad to help out on Patreon and buying shirts! I've learned a lot and I wish as a recent mechanical engineering grad whos into thermal related stuff, that I could get a job as cool as Malcolm
@@MaesterAnon *Agreed. I hope Steve sees this and seriously considers your suggestion.*
I really like the "find nerd, get them to infodump" format. Especially helpful that you've found people who can really articulate what's going on at a level us mere plebs can understand.
They should really call this series: Nerd Infodumps 🤓
I think you made a great observation- like they said in the preamble, he did not dumb it down, but with technical discussions there are ways to explain complex topics more eloquently/easy to digest than others, and GN has a really good eye for experts who know how to tow that line.
@@PanderingSlats It's considered a demonstration of how well someone understands the topic - the better you understand a thing, the easier it is to explain to someone with no understanding. Malcolm does this very, very well.
@@grievesy83 the only exception is monads, as soon as you understand them you loose all ability to explain them to anybody else, to paraphrase douglas crockford.
-
There are two types of ways people usually try to explain it, something along the lines of saying its like a burrito (which is entirely useless beyond saying it "wraps" something), or the classic "a monad is a monoid in the category of endofunctors" (which is only useful if you know what each of those words means, at which point you already know what a monad is. imho the classic "a tensor is something that transforms like a tensor" is more helpful than that for a person unfamiliar with the topic)
We appreciate the deep dives in engineering education. Even Greg.
Ah, yes. Classic Greg comment on the CPUs. Immortalized.
@@GamersNexuswait what, could someone please clue me in? 😂
@@50shadesofmycow Greg likes to make bets
@@50shadesofmycowGreg is the most powerful CPU ever.
@@50shadesofmycow Watch this GN video and Greg is mentioned in the 1st minute. ""NOT ENOUGH SAMPLES" - Benchmark of CPU Sample Size ft. 68 CPUs, HUB, & Der8auer"
i appreciate the "not dumbing it down" more that you know. thanks.
*than ..r/irony
@@saltee_crcker2363 Everyone bow down before the Big Shot himself.
Guy typed a single typo and you scramble to get on your high horse lmao
@@saltee_crcker2363 you got me I'm never gonna recover from this.
@@saltee_crcker2363 Your Reddit gold, good sir
@@saltee_crcker2363😂🤓🤡
He seems really passionate about his work which is always nice to see.
His passion really helps me learn. Sounds silly but somehow he makes me excited about fan pressure comparisons
everyone is passionate about getting paid
@@metallurgicoThere's an obvious difference between someone genuinely passionate and someone who does it only for money. Please contain your autism.
This isn't his work though. He said it at the end, I really enjoy talking about this stuff.
I would expect his actual work to be really quite tedious and boring. I'm sure he doesn't mind that too much, because it's within a field he is interested in and passionate about engineering, whilst also having times that are great.
Am I being pedantic, sure, but I think the distinction is important.
He has the makings of a great university professor though, passionate when speaking about stuff, probably enjoys teaching and has potential to be a great communicator.
@@metallurgico There are a lot of people hating their work though, he is full of energy just to talk about this.
These deep technical discussions are the best type of content.
Agreed!
Damn the thermal engineer is so good on camera
It's been great that these companies are finally trusting their engineers to do camera-facing interviews!
I have been very suprised by how much the engineers from several of the big companies have been able to go on camera lately! It really is great to see...@@GamersNexus
that little bit of soft-skills and media training can go a long way
Nice chap, but I think he assumes to much knowledge on the viewer, Steve had to slow down him a bunch of times... the nerd curse
@@TheChzoronzon I think he did a pretty good job considering the amount of time he had, but I may feel that way because I already had some cursory knowledge on the topic...
Man, Gamers Nexus is quite literally The Greatest Tech Channel That's Ever Lived. I can't imagine the effort involved in these deep-dives, and I truly appreciate what Steve and crew do for this community. Seriously admirable.
I would have liked to know more about how swamp gooch affects fan performance and noise. 😉😂
Those are some truly honorable words from the Greatest Technician That's Ever Lived!
You know you're talking to the right guy, when they are ear-to-ear grinning the entire time with excitement.
Shout out to Malcolm, dude. I understand the individual references he's making when explaining things, but I know that what he's saying has 3-8 deeper layers internally. And that just makes me enjoy this entire thing even more.
Malcolm is "That" dude.
when you hyper-nerd about something and you get a chance to tell someone else ALL the shit you know it's a rare opportunity!
Steve once again educating us through the power of science and friendship.
...and love ❤ and beauty 🧚♀️and kittens 🐈and bunny's 🐇
What about the doggie? I mean the acoustic highly specialized technician
This entire team works on making cards cheaper to manufacture with as little loss in standards as possible. Its not about making things better.
@@HanSolo__making things cheaper without loss of quality IS making things better.
Effectively that means you can get better cards at your price point.
So interesting. If you roll down only one window in a car, you can hear the modulation caused from the backflow of pressure, which can be painful when driving at high speeds. If you roll down another window, it creates a pass through, which reduces the backflow of pressure and the modulation.
I do be hurting my ear holes
Malcolm is back... with lazers & puppies 😊 im in...
He sounds very knowledgeable with zero arrogance. He knows how to speak.
more videos/series like this PLEASE
My younger self wouldn't have imagined my future self being so interested in a 38-minute video about fan noise, I guess I'm officially a nerd now!
Malcolm’s back, not trying to discount the other peeps, but as a SDE I it’s great to see a more rank-and-file engineer instead of the principals
Thank you for raising the tone, quality and audience respect on CZcams when so many channels head in the opposite direction.
so true
I see what you did there.
Good that Gamers Nexus is becoming so prominent. Most techtubers are as deep as a puddle, so seeing you guys succeed makes me happy.
Btw: the special technician is adorable. Does it hate coil whine too?
Most people don't know, coil whine is actually the screaming of poor souls straight out of the pits of hell, which Nvidia swallowed with its 4000 and 3000 series of overpriced trashscam graphics cards
@@hossosplitternacken7819 3070 and 4090 both used them, they don't have coil whine
I love that the industry is becoming more open to the media like this. It certainly makes me more inclined to buy products from companies that allow content like this to be made.
Agreed, that's the marketing I want.
Also, like in most of the products we buy, it helps to realise how much work and complexity are behind them
My dude Malcolm. Good to see him back.
Nvidia still hasn't caught him! 😁
Lois hasn't caught him!*
Gutenberg is awesome (pretty famous german name, the guy who invented the Book print) what a nice guy, hope we gonna see more when the rtx 50 series comes out
Malcom? My bad I thought Linus finally went through puberty.
I love when the sound engineer says "you can SEE, it's a lot less echo in here."
Here we say, open your eyes and listen how good it smell
"See" can mean "observe", "infer", and several other things not specific to sight. Language is weird like that.
hah. Good one. I hear what you are saying.
Senses function with each other, no brainer language would "show" this as well.
This guy is clearly extremely knowledgeable in his field and appears to be quite young. Hopefully nvidia realizes how valuable someone like this is to have on their team. Good job Malcolm.
Everything else about the ear was very insightful and approximately correct. However around 32:22 the inner ear doesn't act as an amplifier. There is only one active device in the ear and it's a muscle in the middle ear to act as an automatic gain control/mute for when the system is exposed to excessive sound pressure levels. It has the ability to add attenuation. - Signed Evan Foss engineer with +15 years in hearing research & electronics design.
ok hot shot but tell us. have you ever stretched out a cochlea
@@martinkrauser4029 no because you can't. The walls are not something you can separate like that. However I have helped people section them in a machine called a microtome. I was also the designer of an electronics package that let scientists measure sound pressure levels in the cochlea using fiber optics. The design for this is visible on GitHub if you doubt me.
The primary function of the middle ear is to match the impedance from air to water. In fish there is no middle ear, their hair cells are exposed in a structure called the latteral line on the sides of the animals body.
As an audiophile and someone who obsesses over finding the perfect thermal solutions for every device I’ve put my hands on, this was truly one of if not the most fascinating and entertaining video I’ve seen in a long time. That guys an INCREDIBLE speaker and teacher. I was hooked in the entire time. All of it was so informative and easy to understand. This guy broke down everything perfectly! Thanks for covering this and sharing it. You guys are absolute legends ❤
(Hannibal from A-Team voice) I love it when a plan converges in a confluence
got recommended this and i love learning from videos such as these :) the actual psycho-acoustics for human perception of sound is so interesting to hear in situations such as these where there needs to be optimizations for everything
Malcolm is awesome. He's got a great combination of knowledge and enthusiasm. The perfect combination for explaining/teaching.
"Does it hurt you when someone manually adjusts their fan RPM?" @26:53
HAHAHA!! I loved that question Steve! It made me laugh too!
Given all the years of education, engineered design, lab tests, iterations on product, and the goal to provide an optimal experience. Then, the end user just wipes their butt with that and goes full throttle because I'm uber uber leet and I need the fan noise picked up on my mic to tell everyone that I got mad skillz!
As far as his response goes, he mentioned the stock curve being the best for the user listening experience. But, if sound isn't a factor for you (let's say if you have your computer in a different room than where you game) then you can just crank the fans up to max. Yes, you'd use slightly more power and probably decrease your fans' life span but you'd get better cooling.
What are you on about?
Do we remember this engineer? We LOVE this guy. Malcolm is absolutely intelligent and a joy to hear speak.
Few things I enjoy more than someone who is clearly passionate about what they do excitedly sharing their knowledge.
AMAZING KNOWLEDGE ACHIEVEMENT ACQUIRED.
Thanks Malcolm and GN.
So refreshing to see content like this - Malcolm is clearly very happy to talk with someone as interested as he is in his craft.
I love listening to these guys talk
We need more tech talk with engineers
Thanks Steve (and everyone involved)
I love this sort of engineering technical deep dive, and Malcolm's explanations of it all are wonderful. If I could like this video a thousand times, I would.
Also really love the parallels with aircraft wings and stall characteristics, that's definitely a part of this that I'm personally very familiar with.
These videos are really cool. Learning about how these products are built is awesome. And I love that the actual engineers from these companies come out to talk about their work. Really appreciate that.
Awesome stuff, you don't see deep dives like this on many other tech channels. Malcolm is a great presenter too
Malcolm! Great to see you on GN again! The information you provide, combined with your passion for your work, is a real joy to watch. 💚 (Also - I love your smile!)
This was really interesting to me - especially the stuff about fan blades. It's awesome to learn how my video card is cooled, and why it is so quiet. But to be honest, I'm gonna have to watch that Stall Region segment again, because it kinda went over my head. Haha...
And to GN: I love this type of content! More more more, please! :-D You manage to get really awesome guests. Malcom, TAP, Bill, and Amit are starting too feel like members of the GN family at this point.
I just know that this interview is a major highlight for Malcolm. Look at how happy he is to talk about this stuff that he is entrenched in, and clearly passionate about. I think it was as good for him as it was for us 😂
Genuinely love seeing someone know a lot about their field of work, I can really appreciate a person like that
Feels so weird seeing your friends/former coworkers on a CZcams channel you watch.
Glad to see you having fun Malcolm!
This has got to be the best kind of content for the PC and Engineer nerds. More please
0:30
I asked for a freaking shark with a lazer strapped to its head... and this is what you brought me?
Is the animal vicious at least? Is his owner evil?
Great content. Joined to see more.
This is what gets me excited about technology. Videos like this are a special commodity. Thanks to Steve and the team for content like this and especially to Malcolm for not holding back! His knowledge and enthusiasm for his work is always a delight.
These engineering discussions are masterclasses of content. Educational, entertaining, and must watches for me.
Excellent video. Really loved hearing everything in so much detail without being dumbed down. It's a pleasure to watch when your guest is as knowledgeable as Malcolm.
I hope to see more of this type of content regularly.
Maybe with a RAM manufacturer like Corsair, Gskill etc and what they do with the memory chips after and before assembly.
I may not like Nvidia as a company, but the actual engineers behind it like Malcom and the rest of the team who actually DO the work the CEOs take credit for are awesome, I always love to hear from them instead of PR and shit
Company heads always take the credit for everything... including the passion employees have... most company heads suck.
Every company has people like him.
Ah yeah, i fondly remember all them CEOs getting on stage, holding up the company's product(s) and proudly claim "I did this! I am the genius who did this!" Man, do i love CZcams's comment section, it's never lacking in infantile BS potshots, lmao...
@@elgonzo7239 Imagine having a boot so far down your throat you take issue with someone stating a fact about CEOs lmfao
Wait you don't like rich people with fat egos??
this was the quickest 40mins I've experienced in a while 😁 thanks for the deep-dive, Steve!
I love how much fun he has explaining all this, this is a guy who enjoys what he's doing!
really enjoyed the explanation of the fan blades and malcolm's excitement. Really cool to see the physics employed in fan design.
As someone who just put together a new computer and is trying to make it as acoustically pleasant as possible, this is a really cool and well timed video. Thanks Steve!!
Thank you for this interview. It is awesome to hear two excited engineers talking about complex stuff and somehow make it understandable and very interesting!
Yes, thank you for these deep dives.
Keep producing this style of videos.
i love it when someone talks about their profession with such passion. you dont see that anymore
I really like Malcolm, he seems very happy and competent at his job...This was a very intersting video! I have been loving these types of videos on the channel and I can't wait to see what's next!
Super cool video. This needs way more views. Keep up the great journalism.
I'm really impressed by the range of topics this guy can talk about in detail off the top of his head! So many areas of engineering involved in this discussion.
Thermodynamics is basically how you hear but with fuck loads of mathematics.
Amazing how much consideration and science goes into this process
This seems like a good place to use "venjent - laser grave" as a backing track
Well done video, team. I liked the editing on this one.
Another banger! Thanks for continuing to bring us amazing content like this.
Fantastic content, Superbly entertaining and informative. Love it, cant wait for the next instalment
Very interesting. Thank you for doing these discussions and deep dives!
This man really made such a complicated topic easy to follow 😮
Amamzing , love this type of technical education right form the source and people who actualy doing it , developing , pure gold ! more please :)
Fascinating educational discussion - thanks for keeping science and intelligence relevant and accessible. So inspiring to see Malcolm/Steve's passion for their work.
From the depths of my core, Thank You. I love this type of stuff.
Malcolm's knowledge and passion is inspiring to say the least.
These are some of your best videos!!! Malcolm is fantastic!
morning coffee and getting the optimal operation point of a fan explained, with the maximum coefficient of lift after stall, is my personal week highlight. thanks for that
G'day Steve & Malcom,
Todays Lesson was FANtastic
Malcolm is a gem~! Love to see someone so passionate doing what they love~!
I liked Steve's question about how the two different types of flow would look like!
One of a shortest 40 minutes in my life. Amazing interview!
I'd love to get a patreon video of what was left out of the video. I'd imagine you spent hours talking with Malcolm and this is a really interesting topic that i would love to learn more about. Once again, an amazing engineering discussion video. Great job GN team!
Really enjoyed this discussion. Made me understand the intricacies of fans a lot more. I like these videos that are on a level that don’t lose too much information by beeing simplified.
Losing*
@@Wootguy238 You are correct! :D Changing the eyesore.
Brilliant video, didn’t understand half of it but enjoyed the learning experience!!
Oh, this is fantastic love the in depth details, top-notch content as always
That was so god damn good, thank you for this. No one else is doing it, A++ content.
You had me at diagnostics and kept me with theory plots (and laser interferometry).
Another great video with engineers. It’s interesting and entertaining. Hopefully you enjoy filming it.
Incredibly cool and fascinating stuff! There's just something about fan designing that's always held a lot of interest to me.
Malcolm is amazing. That is all -thanks for the upload!
I appreciate how nice the audio is in this video, at least in the chamber. It's like podcast status.
Fantastic! great to see Malcolm again!
Love Malcom's enthusiasm, you can tell he loves his job and is good at it.
Truly remarkable guest. Wonderful video, learned a lot
It's cool to hear a lot of similar terms in this video that are used in my job as a pilot as well
This is so incredibly interesting and informative! The last video you did actually changed what type of engineering I am looking to go into. I could watch Malcolm talk for hours about this stuff. These kinds of videos makes me glad to have bought the GN coasters when they came out.
Malcolm did great in this, really explained very complex systems well :D.
Love this one. I'm an aerospace engineer, was great to hear him get really into the nitty-gritty with the fans.
I love this video... One of my all time favs from you guys! Thank you!
Immensively informative content, I'm very interested in this field (mainly because I really hate noise) and I learned a great deal from this! Great guy, this Malcolm, both highly knowledgeable and a very good communicator!
This is amazing, the way he explains just make me want to work with them just to learn all of that.
I love these kinds of unconventional tests that I can't do in the workshop. really cool❤
So glad to hear and learn from him again
very cool stuff these days . its great having an inside look into all these things that most of us everyday users would never see otherwise. thx for your efforts GN
Fantastic content! Thank you Steve, thank you Malcolm!
Next level content yet again from GN. These are highly valuable. Thank you.
Love listening to people that know their sh_t, are passionate about it, AND can explain it. Keep these coming, GN!