WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU MAX OUT YOUR CHEAP, EBAY GT45 TURBO? LOW BUCK, 5.3L LS TURBO TEST. DIY, HOW TO
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- čas přidán 24. 07. 2024
- HOW MUCH BOOST OR POWER WILL AN EBAY GT45 TURBO MAKE? CAN YOU KEEP CRANKING UP THE BOOST ON A CHEAP TURBO? WHAT HAPPENS WHEN THE TURBO WON'T MAKE ANY MORE POWER? WHY WON'T MY TURBO MAKE ANY MORE BOOST? THESE QUESTIONS AND MANY OTHERS ARE ANSWERED WITH BACK TO BACK DYNO TESTING ON A MODIFIED 5.3L LS TEST MOTOR EQUIPPED WITH A LOW-BUCK, DNA GT45 TURBO. CHECK OUT THE TEST RESULTS ON THE TURBO 5.3L AT A VARIETY OF BOOST AND HP LEVELS. FULL DYNO, HP, TORQUE AND BOOST DATA SUPPLIED.
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Max out a cheap 100 dollar ebay intercooler instead. 31x12x3. Do a cheap vs expensive intercooler test.
This would be a good test, doing an air to air compare along with different air to water intercoolers too
@@knowbull5hit590 I have been asking for a while. A 163 dollar turbo test with a 800 dollar AtoA intercooler makes no sense. Not 1 person uses those. Almost everyone uses the 100 dollar 31x12x3.
@@tunerdadtunerdad7927 what about the el cheapo air to water intercoolers. Everyone that follows richard is into the budget stuff. And I’d be willing to bet they’re gonna spring for an expensive turbo before an expensive intercooler. I’d like to see both tests. Cheap air to air and cheap air to water
He has an air2air/air2water comparison video up
DANG Richard is PUMP'n out the content! \m/
He gots lots ta say!
This was a great video, I loved the breakdown of the data!!!
The sound effects at 237 are phenomenal. Please keep that up. Its a disconnection from a lecture!
Follow the science. Great work Richard, thank you.
Just what I need to know! Thanks Richard
Turbochargers are sized for a given air volume just like a supercharger is.
Backpressure is aiding the gate as you've stated in the lower flow ranges.
Definitely waiting for that video of boost controller setups
Keep it up Richard!
I'd like to see some drive pressure referenced wastegate tests. Essentially just a spring holding the wastegate shut
Also Rich, 800 HP is a damn good combination for a hell of alot of tire smoke and speed in a 69 Camaro or a box Chevy Caprice. I'd LOVE to get a 67 Olds 442 hard top and put this 5.3 into it with the turbo.
I’m working on a 65 cutlass now.
They have way better period correct motor choices
Thinking about getting a 6.0 and destroking with a 4.8 crank to make a 5.3 and putting it into a gbody Olds 442 with a gt45.. g body shuffle time.
thank you Richard 🎉
Very informative video
Love this test, now let’s see the same but with twin gt45 turbos
Now if you were to increase intake flow and the motors VE the turbo should keep up a bit better as you can make more dome pressure at less boost with a better flowing motor
Do a video on wastegates size for your motor and blow offs please 🥺
Fantastic video! I'm pretty sure I'll be having this problem with my PTE 7675 CEA on my iron 6.0..... just didn't want to go T6 and bumper exit on the car. We'll see in the spring!
Same problem I’m having on my pte7675 on my 6.0, maxed out
@@rotaryturbo88 What HP were you able to make with the car? What was your max PSI? Just curious where I should be roughly setting my expectations when it comes time to get it tuned.
I made 746 WHP on the stock bottom end LS1, and would be happy if that's where I can get with the 6.0, albeit with less chance of pop goes the motor. Anything more than that is just icing on the cake.
@@WayFastWhitey02 it made 732/928 on 15psi I now run 28psi but haven’t dynod it at that level, it’s faster than 15psi but I don’t know how much more power it makes but I know it’s maxed out due to back pressure and turbo size
2 of them would be so much fun
5.3L with a turbo has got to be the best bang for the buck period.
Unless you have a 6.0. Then you have the Bestest bang for the buck!
@@witcher71 but the 6.0 cost twice as much?
@@JasonWoodard Stock for stock, Yes but the gain of starting with the 6.0 would leave you with more POWAH! ;)
The only place I could find a reasonable priced 6.0 was ebay. $1255 shipped to my door. People in the classifieds are asking $2k+ all day long. $1k to $1.5k for 5.3's. Getting crazy!
@@witcher71 So now if you go 6.0 why not go 6.2 ;-)
@@JasonWoodard Show me a 6.2 under $3500. Massive jump in price. They are awesome with rectangle port heads and all but they fetch a premium plus the 6.2 is an aluminum block.
If you shop around hard enough, you can find an LQ4 for damn near the same price as a 5.3
Hi Richard. So I saw your discussion of showing how you know the turbo is maxed out by looking at the boost curves. So the boost falls off at the higher engine speeds more quickly, because the turbo won't support that boost level at the higher engine speed. If we just had a dyno sheet to go by, we would notice the torque curve falling quickly. It's very clear. In your dynos when you raise the boost levels incrementally, the torque curves moved up perfectly until the last curve where the torque fell off quicker after 4000 rpm. I f you would've gone up yet more in boost, that fall off would be more pronounced.
the boost curves and power/torque curves are obviously correlated
@@richardholdener1727 Yes
What happens when you max out your ebay turbo? You buy a second one. 😉
yes
As someone who grew up in the eighties, this sort of horsepower, available through "mail order" blows my mind. You guys have got it too good!
@@watsisbuttndo829 definitely in the era of cheap easy power nowadays lol
Where is the restriction occurring, at the compressor inlet or turbine throat? It will be the minimum area that limits mass airflow. Once sonic velocity is reached, no more air can flow regardless of how hard it is being pushed. Auto racing sanctioning bodies regulate the power by putting sonic orifices or restrictor plates on the cars.
The phrase we are describing is volumetric efficiency. Just because you spin blower faster does not mean it has more capacity.
some of the changes discussed have nothing to do with volume
Do a test on the holly hi ram air to water cooler intake on n/a engine
Always a thumbs up
id like to see a billett GT45 comparison
If you run the same test on a non ported head and truck/ls1 intake 5.3 combo I bet it’ll take more boost to get to that same hp/tq number. Which tells you boost is just a number depending on flow and restriction.
LOWER NA POWER = LOW POWER AT ANY BOOST LEVEL
Please do more nitrous 5.3ls but this time progressive
Do you have any drive pressure or back pressure numbers for this combo?
High Richard, I have run into a issue where my gt45 doesn't spool up until about 3300rpm on my lm7 then it takes off like a rocker. You look like you are getting boost sooner. I have a similar setup.
Similar build but using twin gt45s
My take away, and PLEASE correct me if I am wrong is that an undersized turbo would make for a more streetable combo for those of us not trying to make 4 digit or for that matter even high 3 digit numbers. For me, well the wife, since she has claimed the damn car two days after I brought it home. As an example, a E30 BMW with the mid size open diff. We are looking for passing performance more than drag race, as that is a great way to find the weak link in anything. The idea is a mild or stock cam, same with boost pressures on a stock 5.3. Daily driver that is reasonable quick, but still a wolf in sheep's clothing, no big lopey cam, no loud exhaust. Something around 500 HP would be awesome, but even a stock 5.3 ought to be a rocket compared to the stock 127 HP.
I think you are basically right about smaller turbo . 500 hp thru 1 wheel doesn't seem great idea, 5.3 NA would make for killer E30 too .
@@eflanagan1921 At some point I will have to find a limited slip center section for it, I wish someone made a cheap mini spool, but no luck finding one thus far.
I wonder what the drive pressure is compared to the boost pressure
I can use this for my build 👀
Right at 800 hp 800 tq now that would make almost anyone happy for a street ride, toss in some 2.73 or 3.08 gears to take advantage of that tq peak and enjoy it
Would be a fast car. Not very quick though. I'd do 3.73 or 4.10 depending on tire height for a street car.
It would be faster than most people would want to go for sure, quick is fun for a moment but as universal as the tall gearing is for both fun and long distance play it'd make many of us very happy
Hell, it would make me happy, and I'm a drag racer!!!
@@witcher71 that’s arguable. Plenty of guys in the game prefer 3.27-3.55 for turbo stuff.
I don’t know if you have done it but can you do a e85 vs 93 being n/a. I got a 4.8 cammed stalled fbo stock compression, would I gain any going e85 or should I stay 93.
PLEASE DO THE 5.3 SUMMIT RACING CREATE ENGINE ON BOOST. I WANT TO KNOW IF THAT CREATE ENGINE IS GOOD FOR ME I WANT TO HAVE A TURBO ON A 5.3 RELIABILITY IS AN ISSUE
I think this test is inconclusive. I think that it needed the exhaust back pressure to be monitored so you could know if the back pressure was over whelming the the very low base spring rate and intake pressure ratio.
I would say it's probably almost always hot side. Because if u can't get air out u can't bring air in
Twin gt45s on a 5.3?
What if you place two turbos in action with that combo?
Can you do lunati cams on the 2v 4.6
So Richard , are saying this turbo is of poor design compared to a good turbo ? Or is this a size problem 🤔 . Lol , you're the man 👨 👍
size for this power level
@@richardholdener1727 Thanks man for talking . So are you saying comparatively the cheap turbo is doing what it was designed for (doing what it's supposed to do) . I'm not trying to make you put a foot in your mouth (because I'm nobody) , just toying with the thoughts of having two turbos , but cheap has never done me any favors 💩
He literally said it's an airflow/size issue!!
@@Anarchy-Is-Liberty gotcha 👌
I wish you'd logged the back pressure
Respect for holdener... until I make a mistake on it and blew it up ... honestly
Lmao @2:47
I wasn’t expecting that 😂😂😂😂
@@Tim_ToolMayne_Taylor right that shit was hilarious 🤣
Would be great to use the Superflow Airflow turbine to measure airflow into the turbo. then can plot against the compressor map.
Jordan
What new information would you gain from that data? I'm not disagreeing with you, I just don't understand what you're looking for that wasn't explained by the data that @Richard Holdener gathered.
I ask only because I'm not familiar with what you're talking about, is that similar to a "factory" mass airflow sensor? Or is it different?
@@AustinRBa It's basically a small fan inside of an air hat. It spins at a certain rpm related to airflow. Greater air volume=higher flow=higher turbine speed. With this, along with air temp measurements, barometer data and RH data, both density and flow can be calculated. A factory MAF could yield the same results, but factory parts are usually tailored to a certain application, versus the turbine, which is fairly easily adapted to a wide range of applications.
NO COMPRESSOR MAP
@@alantrimble2881 great information, thank you
Richard, with the trend of twin turbos, how would twin GT45's do? I'm assuming less exhaust going through each turbo(one bank per turbo) would allow more rpm before max-out of airflow, while still building boost?
You are correct
TWIN GT45S CAN SUPPORT TWICE AS MUCH POWER
Wish you had a speed sensor
Music to the ears
Hello this gt45 turbo whats mm whys the esact parts number please
I’d really like to see the difference in a2w vs. a2a Intercoolers. Obviously the a2w is gonna shine, but I’d like to see how bad the a2a would do
PLEASE SEE THE ATW VS ATA VIDEO
Richard I know you're busy one more time I have a 03 5.3 l I want to hear twin turbos you told me the numbers on them but I don't know what wastegates I should get or boost controller it's a sloppy stage 2 cam or 706 heads stock bottom in I'm going to put the head bolts rod bolts etc
we run twin 45mm hypergates from turbo smart, but you can also think about a single turbo with a single 60mm wasste gate-much less money and same power
@@richardholdener1727 thank you for the help I have been with you for a long while an have told a lot of people about you
" Diminishing returns" kinda sorta ?
Richard great video!! Is there a recommended turbo size chart? Where can I find what size turbo I need for the size engine?
think power level
Think compressor map.
A smaller capacity higher revving motor will make more power with the same size turbo, but for the life of me, I can't think if torque is going to be less or the same? Boost pressure is going to be higher but displacement is lower👾
That's assuming that the displacement change is achieved via a stroke change only so different bore sizes don't result in shrouding valves etc.
Also thinking that for a given motor, if cam lift stays the same but we go up on duration or area under the lobe, if we test at the same rpm sweep, boost pressure will drop even further but power would still of increased RPM for RPM.
Theory needs a bit of testing.😉🙂
IF IT MAKES PEAK POWER HIGHER-TORQUE WILL BE LESS
@@richardholdener1727 Keep testing🙂
When are you gonna try one of the new electric waste gates? Wouldn't that help the boost curve not fall off so much?
Boost curve falls off typically because the turbo can’t supply the air. Not because the waste gate is inadequate.
I get that the turbo is getting to its limit, but I'd say that single 3.5" pipe is also past its limit.
its not
@@richardholdener1727 well I believe you know I'm just surprised. I'm pretty good at math and that's interesting for sure. To me a single 3.5" is equal to a pair of 2.5" pipes and the air to make 800 hp seems like quite a squeeze. Interesting for sure. Is it because it's short? I guess drag is per foot of pipe so that makes sense.
Oh, here's me running my HX35 at 36 psi (diesel). 😊
why no test run clips?
That's going on my race truck!!! "Turbo Flo-No-Mo!!
Damn Richard, you're killing me!!! I'm starting to think I'm going to sell my BBC, and buy a 5.3 junker and put a cheapo turbo on it and make more frickin' horsepower than the big block can ever dream of making for the money!!!! Stop doing this to me!!!!!
I feel your pain Brother.........
Shh don't give away my/your ideas !
Turbo the big block’
So iv been slowly acquiring parts for a similar build but i wanted to do a 6.0l or 6.2l and twin ebay gt45's because i assumed the 5.3 would be working way more to spool them causing it to be laggy (although iv considered using a 5.3 since i havnt had any luck finding a 6.0 or 6.2 in my price range)
are you wanting 1500 hp? if not, then run a 5.3l with twin gt35s
@@richardholdener1727 will the gt45 twin be ok to use with a v8 rt challenger
Please do dual GT45 also.
did that on a BBC
What would be a direct replacment inexpensive turbo for the Gt45 that could make more than 800hp?
S475 BORG
The one thing i learned from this video… is i need a bigger turbo. Lol
Back pressure curve? Is there a chart or formula to suggest a good street combo? Obviously, AR ratio and turbine size affect it, as compressor size and mass flow affect horsepower. Is balancing everything just a trial and error exercise?
TURBO SIZE VS NA POWER OUTPUT WILL DETERMINE RESPONSE RATE AND ULTIMATE POWER POTENTIAL
Question? Soo.. I assume for consistency. We would Ideally want no turbo pressure drop at the top end... what would a realistic or acceptable pressure drop or window to stay within?
you will always have pressure drop if you have temp drop-but 1-1.5 psi is acceptable
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for tips!
Does this apply inversely? Smaller turbo to increase torque in the low end of not as concerned about the big end?
yes, small turbo's are good for low end torque.
I actually think you just ran out of wastegate spring pressure, a nice test would have been to run a 14 psi base spring set to then measure the effects. I'm assuming your base spring pressure was the 5.5 psi starting point. Did you at all change the base spring pressure? You normally find unstable boost levels with very low spring rates.
Thats wat iv always seen
I ACTUALLY THINK WE WERE NEARING THE FLOW RATE OF THE TURBO
Doesn’t matter what spring you use if you’re holding the gate shut w/ co2. The turbo will only spool so fast right before it maxes out right? Correct me if I’m wrong. I’m still learning
@@Curderriush96 There's two wheels in a turbo. compressor may still have little left where turbine could be maxing out
If a single GT45 can support about 750 HP, could twin GT45s support double that? Or is there not enough exhaust volume to drive them both that high?
twins can be double
Time to twin turbo?
Richard, looking for a 5.3 turbo combo that gives low end boost and power from 1500 to 3500 rpm where my old XJ6 will be driven mostly.
put a small turbo on a stock 5.3l
@@richardholdener1727 IE the GT35 on a single or recommend dual?
I doubt you want much boost at 1500 rpm, but that gt35 will work if all you want is low boost at low rpm
@@richardholdener1727 any guidance you can give as to size? Much appreciated
What about adding nitrous on top of a small maxed out turbo? Does the restriction in the turbo reduce nitrous effectiveness?
yes-the back pressure will go up dramatically
Boost Ready is not the same as Rich-proof.
Does this mean I shouldn't buy wastegates if I want this turbo maxed out all the time?!? #MoneySavings
What happens to air volume when timing is reduced? if your turbo is maxed out at 30 psi and 6600rpm and you remove a few degrees of timing will the turbo still be limited in volume at those same numbers?
I'VE NEVER TRIED THAT AT THE ABSOLUTE FLOW LIMIT OF THE TURBO, IT WILL MAKE LESS POWER, NOT SURE ABOUT EFFECT ON BOOST AND FLOW
@@richardholdener1727 I have a setup that I know is very conservative on timing, twin turbos that are good to 1600HP, boost starts to drop at 6600 rpm and about 30 psi, and power peaks at around 1100 from my calculations. I could be 5* shy on timing, I thought maybe the volume was maxed out but the timing is off enough to keep me from making the HP numbers that the combo could potentially make.
Let me guess A/R ratio .89 .
Not a flow problem. Lack of second turbo problem. 😉
yes
Hi .I have a bmw 645i, I want to convert, can you tell me which turbo it does and how much hp it will increase?
convert to what?
to make it turbo
Is a 70mm turbo a good size for a 5.3 with a 212/218 600 lift 112 cam for about 500-550 wheel? I’m looking to just get a real responsive turbo
THIS IS A 69MM
@@richardholdener1727 PERFECT . Never knew gt45 was that size thought bigger. I’ll watch and listen when Im off work 🤘🤘 just commented for response while on the job
This explains pretty well why you need to pay attention to the compressor boost map and get the highest flowing turbine when choosing a turbo
$300 chinese turbos don't have compressor maps
@@chipcurrey653 true!
NO MAPS
Couldn't you change that curve if you change the spring in the wastegate to a higher compression spring?
the spring won't make the turbo flow more-at some point you just run out of flow
@@richardholdener1727 I might be wrong but it was my understanding that the back pressure will push the wastegate open. That's why I was thinking a stronger spring would fix that...im new to this and just follow you because you're an inspiration to me.
so how do you know if it's an exhaust or compressor side restriction/limit capping the power/limiting upper end boost?
its probably both in this case
@@richardholdener1727 I have such a wierd situation to figure out. 4.5 liter V8 that only makes like 200hp but will rev out to 6500. I'd like to make 300 and change and maybe turn up to 400 for special occasions. I want it to be very responsive but not run out of steam at 5500. Its very low compression, like 8:1.
Gt35, or is that even too much?
@@jasonbirch1182 I’ve been researching this type of thing a lot. 66-69mm w/ .9 hot side should be good
Is this gt45 to small for an lq4? Thinking twin 45’s but afraid it would be laggy on the street. Already have the 6.0
IT WORKS FOR 700 HP-TWINS ARE LAGGY
Thank you for your time sir
@Richard what would it do as twin GT45’s?
LOTS MORE
Was it the hot side or the cold side that was maxed out on the turbo?and how would you know?
Back pressure ratio will tell you when the hot side is getting maxed out
@@aaronliddell4280 it does not.
So What if you add 1 more Cheap Turbo? is 2 Better than 1 ?
how much power do you want?
Working on what to build, if I add this turbo to my 5.7 and it's hp is500hp by adding this turbo that maximum hp is 600hp it will give me basically 100hp extra, then flat line at about 605 ish ? I'm just looking for a little something extra. Nothing crazy.
If all you're looking for is an extra 100hp, wouldn't it be easier to just use a 100hp nitrous plate setup? A whole lot less work and aggravation me thinks.
Yeah, the cool factor is having the turbo. Plus trying to keep it looking different under the hood. Don't really drive that much. 2000 FRC C5
@@troy8940 I have a 2000 C5 and I can't tell you how much money , time , blood , sweat & tears I've put into my 5.7 to gain this amount of power "the NA way" if I'd have known all this 5 years ago I'm not sure which way I'd have gone , it ain't easy packaging even one turbo,
an intercooler, required plumbing/piping and hardware under a C5 hood , plus over a certain boost level you really should increase ring gap.....but it's still very intriguing , I've seen some amazing builds .
I was wondering why you bothered with a wastegate if you wanted to run the turbo to the end...then i thought what would happen trying to load in a 750hp turbo at 3500rpm without a wastegate.
bingo
@@richardholdener1727 Yaohza! Same as what happened with your Turbo 1054 hp and then bang...big bang F250 351Windsor EFi with TFS heads . Hey, what if we...add these conrods!
Does this hold true for S/C when TQ is higher than HP? Thanks
blower is too small or restricted if you have a falling boost curve
@@richardholdener1727 Thank you sir.
WAHHH!
Couldnt you fix this problem by adding another gt45??
YES-BUT YOU ADD LAG TOO
So, are you running out of flow or is the wastegates?
YOU CAN GET TO A POINT WHERE THE TURBO WON'T FLOW ANY MORE
👍💪
Let's see twin gt45s on a 5.3. Anyone have data? Video, info?
I ram twins on a 454 bbc
Idea! An aux boiler ran from engine heat to supplement exhaust flow to turbo. Can it be done?
That’s not a bad idea
How would this build with a 6.0 lq4 summit stage 2 turbo cam work with the gt45 ?
WORK WELL
If you’re intending to go fast you will need two of them. If you just want to do burnouts one will be fine. Only will make 600 650 max wheel horsepower.With electronic boost controller two of them will be making 1200 rear wheel horsepower and still pulling hard at 7200 rpm
@@danielsullivan9865 thanks. Yeah I will eventually upgrade to a bigger turbo
Add that second gt45 and see where she goes. Lol
Keep it at 6.4 with 666hp name it the hellraiser 😂
The problem is you haven't eliminate the waste gates back pressure opening up and killing pressure after 4500 rpms. How about running stiffer springs to counter act the back pressure
You can't simply counteract backpressure keeping the gates closed. If the housing can't shift the air out your not going to make anymore power.