Z brush - Local Subdivision trick to obliterate triangles & maintain UVs!
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Quick video demonstrating how to use local subdivision in Z brush to obliterate triangles & maintain UVs!
- For those who don't know, to locally subdivide, you just mask the areas that you don't want to subdivide and then ctrl + d.
-In this case you mask the entire mesh (Ctrl + left click the canvas) and then ctrl + d. This way, no subdivision happens, but any areas containing triangles will be obliterated, and it actually maintains the Uv's, unlike the "merge triangles" feature.
Great tip man! I work with zbrush for about 10 years and never heard of this!
Thank you! I hope it is useful to you! This was definitely just a 1- off crazy thing, that I personally find incredibly useful in certain cases!
Thanks for the comment!
Is this a Z Brush tutorial, using Saryn, its a nice momento to be alive!
Indeed! :-)
Wow, after 4 years of using Zbrush there are still things that make me and my face looks like I i saw a ghost and 7 world miracles at the same time. Thanks bro, crazy tip
Haha! Thanks for the comment! :-) I feel the same way when I find some of this stuff. There are so many little hidden gems that combining the functionality in Z-brush allow for. In this case it was more like something that is maybe unintended?, but super useful in niche cases I guess! -- Super glad if it helps you though! :-)
ZBrush always has some magic feature lost to time and updates.
100% Agree!
Very convenient when youre trying to study game assets topo instead of doing it in Maya and reimporting it back into Zbrush. Cool vid!
Insane! ❤🎉
Thank you!!! Love your discoveries :-)
wow great tip, never heard of that, very helpfull, thanks for sharing
Glad it is helpful to you! I felt like it was maybe too niche of a thing to post in a video, but I am glad others are finding it as useful as I do!
I honestly don’t think it is an intended feature. Curious if it still works in z brush 2024 (it’s been there for a really long time (since like 4r7 if I recall).
Damn I could have used that many times! Thanks for the tip, keep em coming!
Yeah - I had to share because I figured it was maybe something that was…. Not well known - I really stumbled on it on total accident and was like oh god.. man.. wish I would’ve known this a couple years ago! Haha
i also noticed scultris pro + smooth brush is good to delete dynamesh left out topology especially on broken borders that has bunch of separated polygons instead of auto grouping and deleting hidden.
Yeah, sculptris with a larger smooth brush can be awesome for just removing stray topology / cleanup, or even an entire piece of something! (Just large smooth brush + sculptris an entire arm away - easy as pie!)
That said, I want to clarify that what I am showing here is a bit different than just getting rid of topology.
The method I am showing here is “only” removing edges that are creating some of the triangles within what would otherwise be mostly, all quad topology, all while retaining the UV’s of the model (if it has UV’s).
I appreciate your comment very much! & I only explained this in depth because I don’t want you to be confused. Your comment is a great tip for people, and definitely useful! (so, thank you!) It just led me to believe that you may not have understood exactly what I was showcasing here. So, my apologies if you understood fully! :-)
Another thing to note is that dynamesh / delete hidden / sculptris and even z modeler when manually removing edges like this, will destroy the UV’s in that area.-
(Not a big deal if you don’t want to apply a texture map to it)
If UV’s are not a concern, the other benefit is that quads just are easier to crease & for 99% of cases subdivide much cleaner than triangles / give a nicer sculpting surface.
Wow, that's a real life saver, sir. Are we sure this functionality doesn't dwell anywhere else? Is it really just a byproduct of subdividing when the mesh is partially masked?
Well, no, I am not 100% certain, but I am 99% certain, heh.
It doesn’t just work when partially masked, I just showed that to show what is potentially happening to the rest of your model if you locally subdivide and have triangles, as the removal of them could possibly be unwanted at times I suppose, depending. But the crazy thing is that it works when fully masked, haha!
But yeah, I have brought it up several times in some pretty well known discord servers and no one I’ve ever shown has known about this.
It does make you wonder why there isn’t a button for it, or why when using zmodeler to bridge points or delete triangles.. it completely wipes the UV from that area.
The closest thing there is to this in Z brush to my knowledge, is merge tri’s - and it’s not really the same thing… although useful in some edge cases.
Probably possible to do this in maya or blender though, if that’s what you mean by dwelling elsewhere - (in another program). :-)
That said - I will say that sometimes if it is an old model or…. One downloaded from online, etc…. Sometimes the results are very wacky.. although, 95% of the time they are very good in my experience.
I’m still trying to figure out what possible data could be retained within a model that it knows which triangles to obliterate, or what determines which ones it is deleting.
If you manually triangulate in blender or maya a fully quad model and bring it back, it will always, in my experience, delete the ones created during triangulation. But if the model is not triangulated by me, I’ve seen it delete them and make a super wierd edge flow (still retains the UV’s though!)
Well, modify topology -> merge tris doesn't do the trick at all for me (for salvaging as much as possible from game geometry, while rebuilding it for 3D print). Your method however works quite well. I know this all could be done in separate software, but I like to do as much as possible in one program, plus I'm a donut-level blender user, while being a huge ZModeler fan at the same time (weird, I know! :))
Thanks again!
@@sylwester7 haha! You’re very welcome! I also like Z-modeler and staying in one program. I also, am very much a donut (probably half a donut) blender user, lol! - I think blender is amazing software, but I just prefer Z Brush. The functionality stacking in Z brush is so endless. Anyhow, I am glad this is working well and helping you out!
Awesome trick! Thank you!! ❤
Np! Whatever is causing this to happen, it would be cool if they could maybe add a button for it and improve upon it (quadrangulation while maintaining UV’s)
Nice tip!! Really helpful!
Thanks, really glad it could help you out! 🎉
I feel like ZRemesher would do a better job at cleaning up your topology, especially after assigning some polygroups to guide where you want it to run loops.
Yes for sure, but that isn’t the point, the point is that this method retains UV’s and allows for a much cleaner subdivision and application of maps if needed. Since this is a model that I will re-skin and already has UV’s and textures that I would maybe like to reference - z remesh right away is not ideal since it will obliterate the UV’s. this method allows the application a displacement map, or whatever other texture “first” on a cleaner subdivided surface (usuallly) - as no other method of deleting triangles retains UV’s - not merge tri’s not z modeler-> delete edges.. they all obliterate the UV’s. So this is just a way around that, so that you can have a cleaner subdivision surface with no triangles and still have the UV’s.
I hope that makes sense! :-). - but you’re totally right, a z remesh is generally cleaner, it is just a pain sometimes when you have to have the “exact” areas on certain parts to bake well, as the sculpting needs to align with the original low poly as best as possible.
thank you
Np! Hope that it comes in handy! :-)
so dope, thanks!
You’re welcome! Glad you like it! More incoming - just been busy during the holidays! (Thanksgiving here) :-)
Thanks for the comment!
thanks a lot, I will try it, its amazing
You’re welcome! Glad that it’s helpful to you!
When your doing this what controls the resolution? If I had used UV Master then mask all then CTRL-D is it keeping the general resolution?
Yeah - it isn’t changing anything texture wise, or resolution wise, it doesn’t even subdivide anything unless there is an unmasked portion on the subtool. It is just getting rid of triangles where it can without leaving holes.
Makes me wonder why theres no just simple button for this, instead it does by mistake essentially lol
My thoughts exactly! Haha. Merge tri’s should do this or.. have another button for quadrangulate? :-) at least it’s possible though!
Great!
So how do I use the local sub-division feature?
Heya! So, to locally subdivide something normally, you just mask an area, and whatever is unmasked gets “flat” subdivided when you click subdivide or press ctrl + d. “Flat”meaning no smoothing is applied during the subdivision process like you probably see happen normally. When you do this it creates triangles at the masked border area to keep the lower geo connected to the higher geo. This will give you more resolution only on the desired area of a mesh.
The thing about what I found In this video, however, is the areas that do not get subdivided - if they are triangulated - will get quadrangulated - meaning they turn into quads, while maintaining the UV’s of the model.
So - all this to say, if you mask the ENTIRE model and then ctrl + d to subdivide.. then it doesn’t actually subdivide anywhere, it just removes triangles and keeps UV’s (which is odd, since if you delete any edges with z modeler or any other method, it obliterates the UV’s in that area).
Anyhow, that’s the gist of local subdivision vs the trick I’ve explained in the video.
I hope this helps! :-)
Lol, nice trick!
Hi, Im relatively new to the technical side of 3D modeling. What's the difference between this video's method vs. Duplicate Subtool >> Zremesher (Geometry) >> Divide >> Project all (Subtool >> Project)? Does that destroy UVs? Why do you need to keeps the UVs if you are making a new skin for a character? Thanks.
Hi! I’m happy to help you understand better! Often, in the sculpting stage we aren’t conerned with UV’s yet. However they can be useful for applying displacement maps for details or noisemaker etc..
What you are describing is a way to get detail back onto an entirely different mesh that has been z remeshed (which does destroy UV’s)
The purpose of this would be if you are given a model that already has been low poly/ uv’d and triangulated for baking and you want to sculpt on it, but keep the same exact shape. (This is simply a way to remove triangles that gives a much better result that “merge tri’s”.
you can z remesh it, sure - but that would not be the exact topology which is probably fine. But on some sharper corners and things - it helps to be able to crease edges to hold them “exactly” to what you will be baking the high poly to.
This doesn’t really have anything to do with reprojecting detail.
Z remesh is a totally valid way to clean the mesh up for sculpting. Bht you will lose UV’s and unless the model is creased , and you have z remesher hold the creases, the topology on the high poly will probably be a little different (still ok sometimes!) for really abrupt angle changes it helps to have it exact.
Also, you do not need to keep the UV’s in this case. It is just a plus that it doesn’t delete them, incase you wanted to use noisemaker and have it apply noise via the UV’s or something.
There are other uses for keeping the UV’s but it 100% is not necessary - just a small cool thing about this method that merge triangles / remeshing or dynameshing does not do.
I hope that makes sense! It’s probably alittle confusing if you are new.
You could z- remesh and reproject to the remesh and subdivide up and project again to maintain the same shape. You really don’t need to worry about keeping UV’s while sculpting for the most part :-) - usually that step comes before texturing. But you can use them for several cool features.
@@ryankelly9657 This is a relatively specialized case then, from what I understand, with strategies for variations via Displacement Maps, noisemaker for material or pattern like details. To "work within the limits" that won't affect the general forms of the standardized/ given model.
They might not have the man power/ resources to allocate for retopology for submitted moving bodies? As compared to helmets that're static and the members of the program are more free to sculpt.
Thanks for the quick yet lengthy reply! I havent played with texture/ substancepainter stuff yet. Soon, haha. Thanks, Ryan!
@@Quotient_Rule 100% correct! - we are not allowed to change the body shape or UV’s for a skin like we can for the helmets in tennogen! :-)
So yes, It is a specific case, however, if you ever have triangulated something manually and then brought it back into z brush and wanted to get your all quads version of it back, this would work better than merging triangles :-) - so there are other use cases! :-)
Great understanding btw! & No problem at all! - good luck with texturing when you get to it! :-)
Does the model have any special settings? Why is it that whenever I execute, the topology becomes messy?
I’m not sure! - are you merging tri’s or masking all and then subdividing?
Merging tri’s is usually really messy.
The local subdivision with everything masked usually “tries” to take it back to what it was in quads before the mesh was perhaps triangulated.
if you decimate a mesh really low, and then do this it is going to become really messy because decimation uses a lot of triangles to hold a silhouette of a shape - especially at lower poly counts.
for Instance.. if you have a lot of stretched - non even quads the direction in which they are triangulated will usually either concave or convex the model in that area, so removing the triangle is going to make it look very odd.
Where this is most useful is if you have manually retopologized sormthing, and then triangulated it for baking, then you bring it back into z brush. Usually this method will get rid of the triangles in a clean fashion. (The mask all then subdivide, method)
I understand. I've tried three or four models that I downloaded from the internet, but all have failed. The topology is chaotic, and the results are not satisfactory.@@ryankelly9657
Ok, yeah - you are probably getting decimated models or something with crazy topology that has a lot of stretched triangles holding it’s shape together. If that is the case, it’s not going to give really awesome results because those triangles are needed to hold the shape. It’s sort of the same as decimating something to a very, very low poly and then doing this.. when it turns into quads a lot of the edges that were holding the shape together will probably be deleted resulting in really awkward quads. Let me know if this is what is happening if you can! I am almost sure that it has to be, though?
I am curious!
Although - I figure a z-remesh or a dynamesh is going to be your best bet with that stuff.
I’d be curious to see a picture of the topology / wireframe on the models you are trying it on.
Hey I actually found a model that has nice even quads, but is VERY slightly twisted.. but to my surprise when I used this method it chose to delete many of the necessary edges for holding the shape rather than just the edges that were probably created during the “triangulation” process.
I am trying to figure out what determines what Z Brush chooses which edges to delete.
I know that when I triangulate something myself, it always chooses to delete the triangles that were created in the triangulation process.
But on say a decimated model, or a few other models I’ve encountered I now have actually seen some horrible results! (Still maintains UV’s though) unlike any sort of manual edge deletion in z brush that I’ve found.
woaaa
:-) hope it is useful to you! It’s not perfect always, but it’s better than subdividing triangles to apply a displacement map onto usually!!
wth...
🙂😐😯😧🤯❤
Yeah - pretty much same when I found this. haha!