If you want to skip to a certain topic on the sanders, here are the times: 2:35 - Profile / Feel 4:34 - Sanding Vibration / Fatigue 8:55 - Dust Collection 13:45 - "Adaptability' 14:34 - Sanding Finish 18:06 - Reliability
Thank you for the video, new subscriber. Let me start off by saying I bought the festool 6” two weeks ago. I tested it but haven’t put it in a job because I was traveling last week. I never thought I would spend that much money on a sander but here I am. I did massive research and I have to say, your comparison is very good. They are both very good at what they do. The deciding factors for me were two things. One, the on and off switch. I tend to readjust my hand a lot and you can’t do that with a top trigger. Two and very important, is reliability. I read review after review about the Mirca having serious issues with reliability. Those two factors made it an easy choice for me.
Thanks for the comments here Shayne. The paddle on the Mirka is very divisive, you either love it or hate it! Since making this video my understanding is Mirka have addressed the reliability concerns and it doesn’t appear to be as much of an issue now. Both great sanders and you’ve made an excellent investment 😀👍
With your specific use case I think it makes this one of the most useful reviews regarding the actual utility and ergonomics of a tool. Really helpful!
Great warranty with Festool and Mirka also comes with a 3 year warranty. Mirka does have a detachable cable, it’s just a different configuration obviously to that of the Festool 👍👍
Thanks for the vid. I am once again on the fence with the Deros. I have considered it a couple times over the years and knew a guy that greatly favored the previous Ceros. Every time I consider the Deros it always comes back to the reliability as the primary concern. Secondary would be adapting to the paddle but a person can adapt to things. I've seen your other video of the Deros, as well as Peter's and truthfully many others, but even in my earlier considerations the reliability was a topic. I'd like to think that over such a long period of time that they would of implemented a solution to the topic that scares potential buyers off but that does not seem to be the case. As a festool guy for the last decade I typically just stick with what I know makes profits, but in our current climate of back ordered and extended wait times is what has me looking at the Deros once again. I do have the luxury of buying more out of a planned approach versus need, as I have other sanders up and running versus a breakdown situation where I need it now. I do have an order in for a ETS EC 150/5 but the wait times are ever changing and I don't know if I will see it before July. The Deros on the other hand could be ordered tonight and arrive next week. Here in the states the Deros with the extra 5" pad sits at $769 shipped and the EC 150/5 is $539 shipped. Obviously it can be argued that the extra cost is like two sanders versus one, but the 5" pad is around $42 so the pad is fractional. My understanding is that it is flipped for the UK and the Festool carries the higher price tag in general. Also there isn't really deal hunting for Festool in the states as our pricing is fixed so it just comes down to who you feel offers better customer service. Sorry for the longer ramble on an older vid but one thing I am wondering about the Deros is how many service issues are aided by human error. I mean obviously they likely have some kind of heat issue on the speed control, but is it aided by users not reading the manual and adjusting the counter balance with the supplied screws? For instance in my research Mirka says if you use a interface/pad protector then you need to add the supplied screw into slot C or something. If a small thing like an interface pad throws off the counter balance and a user does not add said screw is that a likely to cause premature wear to the potentially faulty speed control module. Obviously I don't expect you to be able to answer that. It just has me thinking of the merit of the reply Peter had from Mirka in the video he posted using your Deros and that the pad wear effected the reliability. Bottom line i'm on the fence as the Deros seems fantastic in all ways but the most important, and the crossroads are stick with what has never given me issues, or try something new that could be a pricey headache lol. Truthfully if one of those China Mirka knockoffs were easily available with a US plug I'd likely test the waters with one of them as a judging point of at least the ergonomics of the Mirka.
Cheers for your comment here and lots of really interesting information and a very difficult multi faceted series of decisions to make. Yes Festool model here in the UK is more expensive than the Deros. Interesting to hear that Festool is cheaper in the US. Then there is the availability issue which further complicates the issues for you. Based on what you told me and if you are in a position to make more than one purchase, I’d go with the Deros. I actually preferred using it to the Festool as it is lighter. I actually was invited to Mirka’s UK HQ last year which was fascinating. One thing they did say in regards to returns is not enough people looking after or replacing the interface pad. It weighs 130g and if you chip away 5g of weigh it causes a really destabilising effect which puts too much stress on the component parts causing failures. This isn’t the only reason why they fail, but it is something that people should pay more attention to. If you buy a couple then at least you’ve got that back up insurance. I’ve only got the finance to have one ROS so that is why I went with the Festool. Good luck with whatever you decide to do and please keep me informed 😀👍
@@Hand-i-Craft hey appreciate the reply. I did order a ETS EC 125/3 and a extra 6" pad. People say it runs fine with the bigger pad but I'm skeptical about long term. Wondering if it messes up the counter balance. Figured I had plans to replace a 10yr old ets 125 anyways and would get an idea how I felt about the ergonomics. From there I'll either stay on the waiting list for the ETS EC 150/5 or order the Mirka. I about have myself talked into it. Will let you know if I do as I have about convinced myself if I'm mindful of the potential issues I may be able to avoid them. As to the weight I've been keeping a couple older style ETS 150/5 on the work vehicle for me and another guy and I never really paid much attention to it but those are listed as 3.97 lbs. So I expect the 2.6 lbs on the EC version will feel pretty dreamy in comparison. Anyways take care over there.
Thank you very much! I was a hair before buying the Mirka and choose after your Video the ETS EC 150 and can say that the machine is absolute brilliant! I can work now with almost no dust and the finish is truly amaizing.
Thanks rompastompa for your feedback. Glad the video helped you make your final decision. It is a fantastic machine. Enjoy dust free and vibration free sanding! 😀😀
I can confirm that you have made the right choice, I own 3 of the festools in a production shop and they have never ever had an issue. The cord connector went bad from the cable not being twisted in properly but with festool service I had a new connector within 3 days.
You made the right decision. Im a cabinet maker and on my work we have 2 deros sanders, but at home in have the ets ec 150/5 . And honestly i think the Festool im my opinion has less vibrations. For the rest i think they`re have the same finishes
Very good Leo. Very fair and balanced view from someone who's purchased both sanders with their own hard-earned money. 👍👍Oh, and let me know when you want to shift that Mirka - I might just have a cheap copy coming via a (very) slow boat from China... 👌
Thanks Peter, it was an enjoyable video to put together but took me ages to film and edit. I had a subscriber get in touch recently who said they’d ordered a ‘Ningno Ansiauto’ or something along those lines red and black copy of the Mirka. I asked them to keep in touch to see how they got on with it. Is this along the similar lines to what is heading your way? 😀
Good review Leo. Honest & informative. I don't have either of these sanders. I've had the Erbauer ERB108SDR (125) ROS for about 5 years now with the same pad (which probably does need changing). I've never had an issue with it. You wait, it'll probably die after I post this comment. Sods law. I have been looking for a 5mm orbit geared ROS & I'm heading towards the Makita BO6050J, but it weighs 2.6kg, it's loud & very cumbersome. I need a happy medium, but without the price tag
Cheers Gary, oh and never curse your own tools😳😂. I think any geared sander will be quite hefty. That’s why I’ve steered clear of them. I picked up a Rotex in Axminster Tools once and immediately went ‘yep that’s a two handed machine’😀😀
@drop stix . I checked it out when I was in Axminster. Same problems. Weighs in at 2.6kg, is flippin loud (yes, I do use hearing protection) & has a very large barrel (I have small hands). I will make a decision later in the year. Thanks
@drop stix. Very true. Like I said, later in the year, if there are offers around, I may just go for the Bosch. First though is a miter saw without any play.
I’ve heard about the compressed air Mirka sanders which I believe are excellent. If my memory serves me right they are very popular in the car repair industry. They are both excellent for different reasons, just such a shame about the question mark around the reliability of the Deros 🤷♂️
Thanks John and totally agree, it is a great piece of kit. It’s also an investment. Couple of weeks ago I finally decided to sell the Deros as I needed funds for the workshop build. I didn’t realise at the time the availability of power tools is very scarce and I sold it for more than I paid for it two years ago!
Bought a Mirka Deros about 6 months ago. Great sander. I prefer the abranet papers over the iridium, since the hole pattern on the iridium just makes no sense whatsoever since it doesn't even fit the mirka pads pattern remotely and offers inferior dust collection. Anyways, The deros worked extremely well, though it could use small upgrades, like a bumper, just like Bosch puts by default on their GET75 turbo sander which I absolutely love, and, like you said, the head would need a bulging on the front WITH A WEIGHT IN IT so it can balance the tool. I do not understand why companies spend so much into dust extraction, and so much to balance their sanders...but they balance the sanders ...without the hose attached....so when you actually attach the hose as it should be....it's not balanced at all anymore and you always have to put frontal downward pressure with your wrist and over long periods of time, it takes it's toll. It's such a basic upgrade, it's pretty dumb that after 5 -6 years they still haven't made the changes. Also, mine died 2 weeks ago for no reason. Mirka service was great, but the inconvenience is unacceptable. The problem, as the repair guy told me, resides in the speed controller. They are aware of the problem, have been for years, but still haven't figured out how to correct that issue...so, after 6 years of the tool being on the market, I'm not expecting much change in the near future. But hey "they are aware" On the other side, I bought my first Festool tool last week. The domino df 500, which was very expensive... after 20 mins of work, it started turning off by itself and I had to fiddle with the tool to get it turning on again for a couple seconds...soooooo...another hour wasted with customer service, filling out forms and packaging the tool to send it to repair.. I seem to have gotten 2 lemons out of the 2 most expensive tool brands on the market, so sadly, I couldn't recommend Festool for the reliability either, which is pretty damn discouraging.
Thanks for the detailed comment here MrYanngo. My only issue with the abranet is they tend to rip pretty easily on anything except flat sheet materials like MDF. Totally agree with the balance on the Deros when hooked up to a hose and I think a bulge at the head would make the handle more comfortable. I was invited to visit Mirka’s development centre last October but we had to postpone due to Covid restrictions, but I will be visiting them sometime this year conditions permitting and will raise your comments if you don’t mind?😀
@@Hand-i-Craft well that would be great, yeah. Hopefully they would take that info higher up and actually do something about it. I agree with you on the abranet tearing out. I work mostly with solid hardwoods and the abranet are only tearing when sanding near or on edges, as the soft pad makes the sanding disk rub on the edges when a portion of the disc is not in contact with the surface, which creates tear outs. I have adressed that issue with a Mirka representative and he sent me some Abranet Ace discs to try. It's the same mesh type abrasive, but a lot tougher and made for hardwoods. There is also the Abranet Ace HD which is cheaper than the Ace (don't know why) and also tougher, but I haven't tried them yet. I suggest you give the Ace a shot. I bought a batch of iridium, just like you, after experiencing tearing of my standard abranet discs, but I do not like them. I find them super aggressive initially, then they quickly clog up since the small holes are not lining up with the vacuum holes on the pads, and a 120 grit disc quickly begins to feel like a 220grit. For the price, I find the abranet ace to be a lot more efficient. A cheaper alternative is the abranet gold, with the 6 big holes pattern. SIA makes similar quality discs also.
Thanks for that video. Exactly the kind of info i was looking for. I like everything about the mirka with it's size weight and different pads. But reliability for me outweighs anything the Mirka has to offer. I can't spend £400 on a sander and then have to send it for repairs just through normal use. No way. Festool wins.
Thanks Adam, totally agree with everything you say. I suppose if you’re in the trade and have 3 or 4 Mirka sanders you can ‘absorb’ one being out of action, but if it’s your only sander the risk is too high in my opinion 👍
Thank you Mr. Hand-i-Craft. I have some walls to sand at home and would use a sander for woodwork later. I came extremely close to getting the Mirka Deros for all the reasons you outlined. There have been very favourable reviews. However, I have seen plenty of reliability issues on youtube and no just in Europe but in the States as well. It looks like the Deros is great in every way but reliability. Unfortunately for Mirka, I find spending many hundreds of pounds just to play the lottery a very bad deal - the risk is too real. Also your commentary on the finger placement on the Mirka is something that caught my attention as being a potential ergonomic challenge for me where the Festool seem to have chosen a different approach. It looks like it's Festool or something else for me. Thank you again for this review and your other Mirka video. This has been extremely helpful.
It is very fine margins J between the two and they are both excellent. I’ve had plenty feedback from loads of happy Mirka customers, many in the trade. Having said that, these guys have 4 or 5 sanders so when one drops out of action they can ‘absorb’ the loss whilst it gets fixed. If you are spending in the region of four hundred quid on a sander and it’s the only one you’ll own, it’s a no brainer for me to get the Festool. I recently done a fair bit of vertical sanding and it does a great job. Absolutely fine for occasional use in that sense, but comes into its own with everything else. Love my Festool sander pal and you won’t be disappointed if you decide to invest in one😀👍
@@Hand-i-Craft Thanks a bunch for the additional information including the vertical sanding, that's useful. I do respect that Mirka is probably worth it but I've just not seem the amount of heat for a particular model of premium power tool before. The cost-benefit for me is not worth the risk. Mirka should take note. The whole sander-vacuum thing is a bit of a pain. While Festool make good vacuums, none of their H class have an auto-clean. I need the H class for a glass fibre attic job but need auto clean for the plaster. Looks like it's the Festool sander with a Starmix 1635 H class with iPulse. I hope they connect OK :) I hear tell that Starmix make Metabo and Mafell vacuums so they can't be that bad. All of this is what ya call first world problems :) I'm looking forward to seeing more of your channel. Your work is an inspiration! : )
Hello again Mr. Hand-i-Craft! I've bought had the Festool ETS EC 150/5 EQ-Plus about a month ago with a load of Granat Net sanding discs. It connects just fine via a very basic adapter to a Starmix iPulse vacuum. If you are interested, you can find my Axminster review here: www.axminstertools.com/ie/festool-ets-ec-150-5-eq-plus-eccentric-sander-230v-506717?bvnotificationId=912747c3-cef2-11eb-befa-063806957fab&bvmessageType=REVIEW_APPROVED (If you can't find it, look for a 4 star review by SallyCantDance.) For the month I've been using it on and off, I have no regrets - you were right! : ) The only thing I didn't expect was for the backing pads to wear out so fast. I might have some reservations using the Mirka given the same way I've been using the Festool. Thanks again for your video and support! : )
@@CrookedSkew anytime you use abranet/granat net type products you need to use a protector pad (from Festool - not expensive at all and they come in a 2 pack). That protects the main pad from wear.
@@dasyob1 Thanks Nigel. I have the backing pads from Festool and tried using them. They were a little bit more fiddly that I would have liked so I stopped. I'll go back and try again based on your comment. Thanks! : )
Totally agree Benedict. I didn’t want to revisit the reliability issue again too much as I dedicated a whole video to it with my previous Mirka Deros upload👍👍😀😀
Thanks Wil. I did enjoy making this video even though it took an eternity to film and hours of footage cropped in the edit. But to make a comparison directly was interesting to do as it shows their strengths (and weaknesses) in different areas 👍😀
Nice video, thanks for sharing your experience and information. I have the smaller Festool ETS 125 5" and looking to purchase a higher end finishing sander. As you said, I've come to these two options... I hear alot of praise on Mirka, but that's also from folks being sponsored... Mirka looks very nice and I like the lighter weight part, but I cant get over the paddle... I think that would drive me nuts. I sand a ton, producing cutting boards and charcuterie boards each week. My #1 concern to mitigate is my health, so ergonomics is key for me. I think the paddle and finger placement as you described would bother my hand too much. I'll make my decision soon. Thanks again!
Thanks for the comments here Creative Grain and apologies for the late reply. Totally agree with what you’re saying here. Tbh I only use the Festool now and I didn’t realise how much the Mirka paddle bugged me until I no longer need to use it. I’ve found a really comfortable way of holding the Festool now and the Mirka wouldn’t allow me to hold it that way as I wouldn’t be depressing the paddle. I’ve just finished a video on sanding discs which I’ll be uploading in the next couple of days and I used the Festool for a extensive period of time and it was a joy. No vibration, no fatigue at all. If you do make the leap and purchase one, please revisit this comment and let me know how you get on with it 👍. Best wishes, Leo
Very informative Leo after looking at reviews of the Mirka Deros and the amount of people that have issues with it you would think they would make some upgrades to iron out the defects as you would expect a long lasting durable tool for the price the reliability issues changed my mind on buying one.
It was an issue I was really looking forward to discussing with them Rasmo. I was due to visit their UK development centre on Monday, but have had to postpone due to the area I live moving into a high tier of covid infection rates so it just didn’t feel right making a non-essential journey. Mirka were really understanding and assured me it is postponed, not cancelled 👍👍👍😀😀
@@Hand-i-Craft That's good that they are happy to postpone and not cancel your visit in these very challenging times i am lucky to be in a relatively low area but it is worrying every time my wife goes' to work as she works for the NHS 👍
Might be worth checking my channel out. I sold the original Deros and went to the Festool as my main sander. I’ve just bought the brand new Deros 2 model which I’ll be now using as my main sander 👍👍
Thank you Murray. Both great sanders but the Festool doesn’t appear to suffer with the same reliability concerns so if it was a choice of one or the other, I know were my money would be going😀👍
I don't mean to be critical but I don't think the comparison was great. I get that you were trying to do a more apples to apples comparison by using the same sandpaper in both of the tests, but I think that's why there were no discernable differences. I would have compared them with their own "systems". How do you know the Festool wouldn't have had less dust (or no dust at all) on the sheet if it was using the proper paper with some of the larger holes that are optimized for its pad? And I know it would have been expensive to compare the Festool with it's own vac system, but that could have further made a difference. Same paper and same vac predictably produced similar results for both. Same with the oak sanding. I doubt there would be a difference but definitely not with the same paper. Also, on the "adaptability" category, the 150 (6") sander can't take the 125 (5") pad, true, but the ETS EC 125 can take a 150 pad. Don't ask me why, but I have it and it works and the ETS EC 125 and 150 are identical sanders except for a slight difference in the 150's pad shank that keeps it from taking a 125 pad. That's why I always recommend the ETS EC 125 (however, you're stuck with the 3mm stroke, which I think is preferable since it's plenty aggressive for a finish sander and the 3mm stoke gives a slightly better finish sanding. The ETS EC 150 comes in your choice of a 3mil or 5 mil stroke.). It really comes down to the feel and reliability and Festool is just simply a better product. People have been using their sanders and vac systems for 10, 15, 20 years straight and Festool says right on the label that their sander is meant to be used non stop all day, double shifts... it's more of a fleet grade tool and their warranty reflects that. The Mirkas just seem to have lot's of problems for a premium tool. The paddle looks fun to use for about 5 minutes but when do you need instantly variable speed while woodworking? I'd much rather have a traditional speed setting and an on/off button than have to hold down the paddle constantly.
Thanks Aaron for such a detailed piece of feedback. If I could just reply to some of your comments, this video as I pointed out at the beginning isn’t to tell you which sander I think is better. The answer to that question is in my other video where I initially bought the Deros and changed to the Festool. It is merely a guide for folk who might be looking at one or the other. I take your point about the sanding discs and the extractor. But let’s be honest here, there is no way I’m going to go and buy a Festool extractor just for the purposes of this video. The one I happen to own is the Mirka, but I don’t think the extractor would make any difference to performance. This is why I chose a ‘neutral disc’ for the dust collection. The results are fractionally marginal as they are both excellent. I could have gone with abranet and Festool discs but it was a personal choice call and others would do it different and that’s fine, it just isn’t what I did. Very true about the Festool 125 and I’ve no idea why they don’t do the same adaptability for the 150, but again I’m just pointing it out. If you’d have done the video about the 125, someone no doubt would have pointed out that in the 150 pad you can’t have a 5mm stroke. It’s the same adaptability problem but flipped the other way. The Mirka 150 in 125 pad won’t do 3mm stroke and the Festool 125 in 150 mode won’t do 5mm mode🤷♂️. Is that correct? I take onboard all your points and are all fair comments. The reality for this is the Festool is a much better sander. It is extremely reliable, comfortable and produces an incredible finish. Mirka’s biggest fault is it’s reliability. I stand by my comment if you are doing a lot of vertical sanding the lighter Mirka is much more comfortable for prolonged use. If the Deros didn’t have any reliability concerns the decision would be a much more difficult choice. I didn’t want my preference to interfere with impartially on these tests, I just wanted to put out there what I think as someone who only works with one arm what I think the pros and cons are of both and that maybe of some benefit to other folk. Just out of interest, have you worked with both yourself or made direct comparisons? Be interested your thoughts if you have👍👍
@@Hand-i-Craft Thanks for the response. Again, I didn't mean to be too critical. I understand you were trying to do a more apples to apples comparison, I was just thinking a system vs system comparison would be useful in deciding which to go with. As you said, it would be expensive to buy a Festool vac just for a comparison but even if you used the same vac and used the Festool paper on the Festool and Mirka paper on the Mirka, it might have highlighted some differences. I think the Festool paper is optimized for its own pad. As it turns out, I heard that Mirka makes all of Festool's sandpaper for them, which is odd because I always thought the Festool sandpaper (especially Granat) seemed like better stuff. One interesting test would be the Mirka vs the Festool both using the net style sandpaper. Festool has "granat net" now. But anyway, I get your point about sanding vertically and the weight difference. That wouldn't be a factor for me. No, I haven't actually used the Mirka system but I did want to get one originally. I thought it was probably better and looked cool, but I have a friend who owns a woodworking store and sells both the Mirka and the Festool. I told him I wanted the Mirka because I wanted a dedicated finish sander. Despite the Mirka being more expensive, he said definitely get the Festool as it's a better product... he was insistent. Then I did quite a bit of research and found the same thing you did... lot's of people seem to have trouble with the Mirka. Not so with anything Festool, I have confidence in their products. As they say themselves, their sanders are meant to be used constantly all day long. Lot's of people have been using the same Festool tools decades. I have a decent collection of their tools and so far no issues with any of them.
Thanks again Aaron. I totally agree with everything you’ve said. I hadn’t done the level of research you had initially. I was at Makers Central in 2019 and Mirka had a stand so I had a good chat (no pressure) and tried out the Deros for a good while, which for power tools you never get the opportunity to do. It felt great so I bought it. It was only when the reliability issues started that I learned the hard way that change was needed. After getting my hands on the Festool, although there are plenty things I like about the Deros, the ETS is a much better sander overall. Btw have you seen the Mirka Iridium discs? Worth a look as when you mentioned Mirka making the Festool discs you might see they have thought they should produce one for themselves 🤷♂️😀
Hi Leo, great vid. Is it easy enough to connect just any old shop vac to the festool? It looks like you dont have the special festool vac (at least in this vid).
Cheers for the message. Yes I've had no issues with the Festool connecting to different brands of shop vac. It connects fine to the Mirka and Trend vacs that I do have. I know quite a few folk who use Cen-Tec quick release connectors on a variety of power tools to their shop vac. Worth checking out 👍
I can attest to festools reliability, been using their sanders for 10 plus years, never had one go bad. Also a tip, if you buy the 5" festool sander, you can also purchase the 6" pad and save a bundle over a mirka whilst having two pad sizes.
Thanks for the comment Woodologist and it is great to hear someone clearly with a lot of experience backing up my own thoughts. Just a quick question about the 5” sander as someone else has mentioned this. Is the 5” Sander available with a 5mm orbit or just the 3mm? I know you can change the pads on the 5” model, but think you’ll only be able to have a 3mm orbit with it? I could and probably am wrong about this but was just wondering if you knew. Cheers, Leo 😀
@@Hand-i-Craft you are correct, the 5" model comes only in the 3mm stroke, I did but two of the 5mm stroke 6" sanders when they transitioned to the new multijet pads. That's the trick with festool, when they come out with a new version of any given tool, the dealers are able to mark down the previous version as those SKU numbers become discontinued. Thats the time to buy if the new features aren't worth the extra premium
Great 👌 review thanks for sharing...You Sir! Just a complete inspiration to all. I own a mirka ceros as well as the deros. Have not had a problem with none of them. Both feel great but the discontinued mirka Ceros feels better than the deros, more like an air sander. It would be great if the deros will merge with the festool. We will have the perfect sander. Feel and reliability 😊. Thanks again!
Thanks for the kind comment Sergio, much appreciated. I’m sure there are thousands of folk like yourself who had years of trouble free sanding with their Mirka products. It’s just in my other video the comments section became a bit of a haven for people who’ve had nothing but problems like I had. Totally agree with your final comment, create a hybrid of the two and we’d have the perfect sander 😀😀
A friend mentioned you had done a review of the Mirka, curious if you had done a comparison with the Festool native grit paper say 120 and the Mirka with its native sanding disks @120 grit do you think the Mirka would of not come out on top?
Hello Ben, cheers for the message. It’s a question I’ve been asked many times since doing this comparison and for what it’s worth here is my opinion. They’re both fantastic sanders, right at the top of the ladder and separated only by small differences that make it a personal preference. To compare directly with equivalent discs you are looking at the Festool Granat against the Mirka either Iridium or Novastar. You can’t compare the Festool Granat against Abranet from Mirka as the disc is a totally different product and Festool (who don’t make their own discs) don’t sell an equivalent. My honest opinion is the Mirka wins hands down in a direct comparison. The sander is lighter and easier to use and produces a wonderful finish. The Festool is equally an excellent product, the Granat disc is excellent but not as good as the Mirka equivalents in my opinion. Vertical sanding with the Mirka is much easier than the Festool due to the lighter sander weight. Why I still own the Festool and not the Mirka is I personally have had reliability issues with the Deros and I can’t afford to own more than one ROS. The fact a sander is such an important part of my work I took the decision to part company with the Mirka in favour of the Festool as the reliability seems to be much better. If it was purely down to a choice between which I think is better to use then I’d choose the Mirka. Hope this is of some help 👍👍
I was surprised you dare use the Mirka for 30mins Leo 😂 good choice I think sticking with the Festool. The Mirka is probably like a ferrari nice but trouble 😂😋
😳😂You're spot on Karl. It's lovely to use, but you've always got 'that' feeling in the back of your mind. I've been mad busy these last few weeks I've hardly watched any CZcams. I'm off now for a few days and loads to catch up on. Haven't seen your bed build yet but will watch it today 👍
Interesting, I am now on my third Deros ( i do a lot of sanding!). I haven't owned a festool sander, so I can't compare. But what I love about the Mirka, is the the stopping time. I take my hand off the paddle and it stops in a couple of seconds. i also have an expensive Makita sander, And when I release the power, its still spins for what seems a long time, frustrating when you are holding it in the air waiting for it to stop to be able to put it down. How does the Festool stopping time compare?
Cheers for the message herbert. To be honest I wasn’t sure so I went out and done a quick check. If you send me an email at 75handicraft@gmail.com I videoed it for you so I’ll send it over as an attachment. Probably easier to view it than me explain it. Cheers, Leo
Thanks Suj, much appreciated. I do say the Festool is an investment, albeit an expensive one. What is reassuring though is the resale value. Not that you’d be looking to sell once buying it, but if you check the likes of eBay you’ll see they hold their value remarkably well👍👍😀😀
Never say never. When I saw the price on the Festool sander I said you would have to be crazy to spend 4 times as much for this. Then I sanded and sanded and sanded and was ready to mortgage my house to make the experience better. 😄 they make some great stuff. I picked up a used mini dust distractor for 120$ (stole it) and that thing is amazing. Festool is over priced but dang they are good.
I think when spending that kind of money, reliability is the major factor. How has the Festool been so far? If you don't mind me asking, what made you choose the 5mm over the 3mm?
Festool has been spot on manSKave, love using it. I went for the 5mm version as I see it as more of an ‘all rounder’ whereas I think the 3mm is more of a fine finishing sander. If you are thinking of getting the 3mm, buy the 125mm pad version as you can also buy a 150mm pad to change up to which gives more flexibility 👍👍
@@Hand-i-Craft Yeah I definitely shifted towards the Festool after reading countless stories of reliability issues. I ordered the 125 (still waiting as it's backordered everywhere in the states) FYI - your videos are very informative and great!
What about the RUPES Skorpio E RX256A ? I know they are more into car detailing, but they've also got tools for woodworking. It costs less than both Mirka and Festool and is still a professional tool, all made in Italy. Any suggestion? Have you ever tried it? Thank you
Hello Andrea and greetings from Liverpool. I have to be honest I have never seen or heard of RUPES Skorpio until I read your message. Just had a quick look online and the design appears similar to the Deros with the paddle. Quick price check and here in the UK the price seems similar to the Deros and a bit cheaper than the Festool. Interesting, but I think folk in the UK would be more inclined to go Festool or Mirka because of customer support etc. Don’t think any of the major retail outlets stock RUPES, but thank you for pointing them out to me 👍😀
@@Hand-i-Craft Thank you! I discovered them few months ago because my brother is a car detailer and he said that Rupes is the Ferrari of tools (Sanders and polishers). I may buy the Skorpio in a little bit and I'll let you know my impressions. But thank you for this video anyway! Really helpful! P. S. Some people say that the costumer service of Rupes is great :)
Cheers Benjamin for the message. Having used both I’d say the choice of sanding disc would determine the degree of material removal much more than either of these sanders. If you’re after quick stock removal then look at the Festool Rotex. These are both excellent finishing sanders but can do the ‘hard yards’ if you use the more abrasive discs. I wouldn’t say the Mirka is a bit quicker but that’s my personal opinion 👍
Brilliant video mate! I watched both this one and the review of the Mirka. I have the BOSCH GET 75-150 and was hoping that could do both rough and fine sanding for me. It is the one one that competes with the Festool Rotex. And the reviews were brilliant. However it is not as balanced as people were saying. It tips backwards when using it with a dust hose, meaning that I have to use it 2 handed. And while I still have both hands available, sanding like this hurts my back after just a short while. So, I am looking for a 1 handed alternative. The festool ETS looks great, however when every time you set it down it looks like it is tipping backwards. Is it as unbalanced as it looks in the video? Chees and thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the kind feedback Goran. The balance issue with the sander is a strange one as on their own they are perfectly balanced, but it is when you add a dust extraction hose it can cause the sander to tip back a little. I don’t have a Festool extractor so can’t comment whether they keep the alignment correct, but I can say it is a fantastic sander and I love using it 👍👍
@@NomadMakes Interesting you ask Goran as I’ve got a Mirka Deos sander on loan from Mirka at the moment to compare with my Festool RTS 400. Going to do a comparison video early in the new year so keep an eye out 😀👍
Hello Gavin, bit of an educated guess but my understanding is companies make discs specific to their products and other companies who don’t make sanders try to come up with a ‘generic’ pattern. For example, Festool Granat match their own sanders hole pattern perfect, Mirka slightly different as Abranet is a mesh and would work on anything. Then you have the likes of SIA, massive abrasive manufacturer but to my knowledge don’t make sanders. Their patterns are kind of a ‘line of best fit’ if that makes sense so they work well on most sanders. Then there are the cheap as chips 8 hole design that quite a lot of budget sanders have. Dust extraction is key really for two reasons, firstly your lungs obviously and second trying to extract as much dust off the surface so you’re not in effect putting more micro scratches onto the surface you are trying to sand. Hope this makes some kind of sense pal 🤷♂️😀
I’ve still got it Mr B, but will be selling it as I don’t use it now. I think when I order the next load of timber for the roof structure on the workshop I’ll then realise I need the money to fund it 😂
I have big respect for you as a human, I want to buy the Festool ets ec 150/ only wich one to buy the 150/3 or 150/5. I’m a painter and most of the sanding are doors and walls preparing for painting. Please give me some advise wich one to choose
Thanks for your very kind comments Barbary. It is such a difficult question, but I guess it all boils down to your own specific requirements. The 5mm orbit is ever so slightly more abrasive than the 3mm, but again from my limited knowledge it is often in the hand of the operator that can determine the best finish. If you only had to choose one, based on your line of work, wouldn’t the 3mm be better? But I guess if the 3mm takes longer to produce as good a finish, isn’t the ‘time is money a factor’?
Good point Frank. I think the auction of the extraction also helps as, if the piece you’re sanding is flat, when you lift the sander off it it’s like ‘peeling’ it away 😀
If you want to skip to a certain topic on the sanders, here are the times:
2:35 - Profile / Feel
4:34 - Sanding Vibration / Fatigue
8:55 - Dust Collection
13:45 - "Adaptability'
14:34 - Sanding Finish
18:06 - Reliability
both are brilliant been using them for years. Strap a chargeable led light to them and it shows up everything you miss😀
Brilliant, thanks for the tip and I’ll definitely be trying it out!
Thank you for the video, new subscriber. Let me start off by saying I bought the festool 6” two weeks ago. I tested it but haven’t put it in a job because I was traveling last week. I never thought I would spend that much money on a sander but here I am. I did massive research and I have to say, your comparison is very good. They are both very good at what they do. The deciding factors for me were two things. One, the on and off switch. I tend to readjust my hand a lot and you can’t do that with a top trigger. Two and very important, is reliability. I read review after review about the Mirca having serious issues with reliability. Those two factors made it an easy choice for me.
Thanks for the comments here Shayne. The paddle on the Mirka is very divisive, you either love it or hate it! Since making this video my understanding is Mirka have addressed the reliability concerns and it doesn’t appear to be as much of an issue now. Both great sanders and you’ve made an excellent investment 😀👍
With your specific use case I think it makes this one of the most useful reviews regarding the actual utility and ergonomics of a tool. Really helpful!
Nice one, thanks Adam for the feedback, much appreciated 😀😀👍👍
Main reason for festool, warranty is effortless and the removable cable
Great warranty with Festool and Mirka also comes with a 3 year warranty. Mirka does have a detachable cable, it’s just a different configuration obviously to that of the Festool 👍👍
I personally prefer the Mirka style variable speed paddle switch on the top of the sander as opposed to the on/off switch on the Festool.
They’re both great sanders and at this price point I guess it just boils down to personal preferences 😀👍
Festol is rock solid, 100% quality!!!
It is a fantastic sander 👍
nice comp. I appreciated the objectivity and loved seeing someone with a disability interested in woodworking. Well done!
Nice one, thanks EG for the feedback, much appreciated 😀
ive decided to sell a spare leg and get the festool, just heard about too many mirkas packing up, cheers
It’s a fantastic sander Kevin and a great investment 😀👍👍
Thanks for the vid. I am once again on the fence with the Deros. I have considered it a couple times over the years and knew a guy that greatly favored the previous Ceros. Every time I consider the Deros it always comes back to the reliability as the primary concern. Secondary would be adapting to the paddle but a person can adapt to things. I've seen your other video of the Deros, as well as Peter's and truthfully many others, but even in my earlier considerations the reliability was a topic. I'd like to think that over such a long period of time that they would of implemented a solution to the topic that scares potential buyers off but that does not seem to be the case.
As a festool guy for the last decade I typically just stick with what I know makes profits, but in our current climate of back ordered and extended wait times is what has me looking at the Deros once again. I do have the luxury of buying more out of a planned approach versus need, as I have other sanders up and running versus a breakdown situation where I need it now. I do have an order in for a ETS EC 150/5 but the wait times are ever changing and I don't know if I will see it before July. The Deros on the other hand could be ordered tonight and arrive next week. Here in the states the Deros with the extra 5" pad sits at $769 shipped and the EC 150/5 is $539 shipped. Obviously it can be argued that the extra cost is like two sanders versus one, but the 5" pad is around $42 so the pad is fractional. My understanding is that it is flipped for the UK and the Festool carries the higher price tag in general. Also there isn't really deal hunting for Festool in the states as our pricing is fixed so it just comes down to who you feel offers better customer service.
Sorry for the longer ramble on an older vid but one thing I am wondering about the Deros is how many service issues are aided by human error. I mean obviously they likely have some kind of heat issue on the speed control, but is it aided by users not reading the manual and adjusting the counter balance with the supplied screws? For instance in my research Mirka says if you use a interface/pad protector then you need to add the supplied screw into slot C or something. If a small thing like an interface pad throws off the counter balance and a user does not add said screw is that a likely to cause premature wear to the potentially faulty speed control module. Obviously I don't expect you to be able to answer that. It just has me thinking of the merit of the reply Peter had from Mirka in the video he posted using your Deros and that the pad wear effected the reliability.
Bottom line i'm on the fence as the Deros seems fantastic in all ways but the most important, and the crossroads are stick with what has never given me issues, or try something new that could be a pricey headache lol. Truthfully if one of those China Mirka knockoffs were easily available with a US plug I'd likely test the waters with one of them as a judging point of at least the ergonomics of the Mirka.
Cheers for your comment here and lots of really interesting information and a very difficult multi faceted series of decisions to make.
Yes Festool model here in the UK is more expensive than the Deros. Interesting to hear that Festool is cheaper in the US. Then there is the availability issue which further complicates the issues for you.
Based on what you told me and if you are in a position to make more than one purchase, I’d go with the Deros. I actually preferred using it to the Festool as it is lighter. I actually was invited to Mirka’s UK HQ last year which was fascinating. One thing they did say in regards to returns is not enough people looking after or replacing the interface pad. It weighs 130g and if you chip away 5g of weigh it causes a really destabilising effect which puts too much stress on the component parts causing failures. This isn’t the only reason why they fail, but it is something that people should pay more attention to. If you buy a couple then at least you’ve got that back up insurance. I’ve only got the finance to have one ROS so that is why I went with the Festool.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do and please keep me informed 😀👍
@@Hand-i-Craft hey appreciate the reply. I did order a ETS EC 125/3 and a extra 6" pad. People say it runs fine with the bigger pad but I'm skeptical about long term. Wondering if it messes up the counter balance. Figured I had plans to replace a 10yr old ets 125 anyways and would get an idea how I felt about the ergonomics. From there I'll either stay on the waiting list for the ETS EC 150/5 or order the Mirka. I about have myself talked into it. Will let you know if I do as I have about convinced myself if I'm mindful of the potential issues I may be able to avoid them.
As to the weight I've been keeping a couple older style ETS 150/5 on the work vehicle for me and another guy and I never really paid much attention to it but those are listed as 3.97 lbs. So I expect the 2.6 lbs on the EC version will feel pretty dreamy in comparison.
Anyways take care over there.
Thank you very much! I was a hair before buying the Mirka and choose after your Video the ETS EC 150 and can say that the machine is absolute brilliant! I can work now with almost no dust and the finish is truly amaizing.
Thanks rompastompa for your feedback. Glad the video helped you make your final decision. It is a fantastic machine. Enjoy dust free and vibration free sanding! 😀😀
I can confirm that you have made the right choice, I own 3 of the festools in a production shop and they have never ever had an issue. The cord connector went bad from the cable not being twisted in properly but with festool service I had a new connector within 3 days.
You made the right decision. Im a cabinet maker and on my work we have 2 deros sanders, but at home in have the ets ec 150/5 . And honestly i think the Festool im my opinion has less vibrations. For the rest i think they`re have the same finishes
Very good Leo. Very fair and balanced view from someone who's purchased both sanders with their own hard-earned money. 👍👍Oh, and let me know when you want to shift that Mirka - I might just have a cheap copy coming via a (very) slow boat from China... 👌
Thanks Peter, it was an enjoyable video to put together but took me ages to film and edit. I had a subscriber get in touch recently who said they’d ordered a ‘Ningno Ansiauto’ or something along those lines red and black copy of the Mirka. I asked them to keep in touch to see how they got on with it. Is this along the similar lines to what is heading your way? 😀
Good review Leo. Honest & informative. I don't have either of these sanders. I've had the Erbauer ERB108SDR (125) ROS for about 5 years now with the same pad (which probably does need changing). I've never had an issue with it. You wait, it'll probably die after I post this comment. Sods law. I have been looking for a 5mm orbit geared ROS & I'm heading towards the Makita BO6050J, but it weighs 2.6kg, it's loud & very cumbersome. I need a happy medium, but without the price tag
Cheers Gary, oh and never curse your own tools😳😂. I think any geared sander will be quite hefty. That’s why I’ve steered clear of them. I picked up a Rotex in Axminster Tools once and immediately went ‘yep that’s a two handed machine’😀😀
@drop stix . I checked it out when I was in Axminster. Same problems. Weighs in at 2.6kg, is flippin loud (yes, I do use hearing protection) & has a very large barrel (I have small hands). I will make a decision later in the year. Thanks
@drop stix. Very true. Like I said, later in the year, if there are offers around, I may just go for the Bosch. First though is a miter saw without any play.
And I bought both of them! 😂
(Redaction: my Mirka is a compressed air driven sander making it a lot lighter than my Festool.)
I’ve heard about the compressed air Mirka sanders which I believe are excellent. If my memory serves me right they are very popular in the car repair industry. They are both excellent for different reasons, just such a shame about the question mark around the reliability of the Deros 🤷♂️
This was a helpful video, I went with the Festool. I'm still not over the shock of paying for it but its a great bit of kit.
Thanks John and totally agree, it is a great piece of kit. It’s also an investment. Couple of weeks ago I finally decided to sell the Deros as I needed funds for the workshop build. I didn’t realise at the time the availability of power tools is very scarce and I sold it for more than I paid for it two years ago!
Nice video! Very informative, good way of presenting. Very calm and relaxing to watch. Plus I like your accent =)
Thank you Zyr4n0, very kind comment and sincerely appreciated 😀😀👍
Thank you for the Video! And best wishes for your health:)
Thank you Ana for your very kind comment, much appreciated 👍👍😀😀
Bought a Mirka Deros about 6 months ago. Great sander. I prefer the abranet papers over the iridium, since the hole pattern on the iridium just makes no sense whatsoever since it doesn't even fit the mirka pads pattern remotely and offers inferior dust collection. Anyways, The deros worked extremely well, though it could use small upgrades, like a bumper, just like Bosch puts by default on their GET75 turbo sander which I absolutely love, and, like you said, the head would need a bulging on the front WITH A WEIGHT IN IT so it can balance the tool. I do not understand why companies spend so much into dust extraction, and so much to balance their sanders...but they balance the sanders ...without the hose attached....so when you actually attach the hose as it should be....it's not balanced at all anymore and you always have to put frontal downward pressure with your wrist and over long periods of time, it takes it's toll. It's such a basic upgrade, it's pretty dumb that after 5 -6 years they still haven't made the changes.
Also, mine died 2 weeks ago for no reason. Mirka service was great, but the inconvenience is unacceptable. The problem, as the repair guy told me, resides in the speed controller. They are aware of the problem, have been for years, but still haven't figured out how to correct that issue...so, after 6 years of the tool being on the market, I'm not expecting much change in the near future. But hey "they are aware"
On the other side, I bought my first Festool tool last week. The domino df 500, which was very expensive... after 20 mins of work, it started turning off by itself and I had to fiddle with the tool to get it turning on again for a couple seconds...soooooo...another hour wasted with customer service, filling out forms and packaging the tool to send it to repair.. I seem to have gotten 2 lemons out of the 2 most expensive tool brands on the market, so sadly, I couldn't recommend Festool for the reliability either, which is pretty damn discouraging.
Thanks for the detailed comment here MrYanngo. My only issue with the abranet is they tend to rip pretty easily on anything except flat sheet materials like MDF. Totally agree with the balance on the Deros when hooked up to a hose and I think a bulge at the head would make the handle more comfortable. I was invited to visit Mirka’s development centre last October but we had to postpone due to Covid restrictions, but I will be visiting them sometime this year conditions permitting and will raise your comments if you don’t mind?😀
@@Hand-i-Craft well that would be great, yeah. Hopefully they would take that info higher up and actually do something about it.
I agree with you on the abranet tearing out. I work mostly with solid hardwoods and the abranet are only tearing when sanding near or on edges, as the soft pad makes the sanding disk rub on the edges when a portion of the disc is not in contact with the surface, which creates tear outs. I have adressed that issue with a Mirka representative and he sent me some Abranet Ace discs to try. It's the same mesh type abrasive, but a lot tougher and made for hardwoods. There is also the Abranet Ace HD which is cheaper than the Ace (don't know why) and also tougher, but I haven't tried them yet. I suggest you give the Ace a shot.
I bought a batch of iridium, just like you, after experiencing tearing of my standard abranet discs, but I do not like them. I find them super aggressive initially, then they quickly clog up since the small holes are not lining up with the vacuum holes on the pads, and a 120 grit disc quickly begins to feel like a 220grit. For the price, I find the abranet ace to be a lot more efficient. A cheaper alternative is the abranet gold, with the 6 big holes pattern. SIA makes similar quality discs also.
Thanks for that video. Exactly the kind of info i was looking for. I like everything about the mirka with it's size weight and different pads. But reliability for me outweighs anything the Mirka has to offer. I can't spend £400 on a sander and then have to send it for repairs just through normal use. No way. Festool wins.
Thanks Adam, totally agree with everything you say. I suppose if you’re in the trade and have 3 or 4 Mirka sanders you can ‘absorb’ one being out of action, but if it’s your only sander the risk is too high in my opinion 👍
@@Hand-i-Craft just followed on IG. I am starting a garden room at home too so will follow that
Well timed video. Thank you for the help and great analysis.
Thanks Bryan, hope there were a couple of bits of useful information for you👍👍
Great video
I have to say tha festool sander work better in low suction and whit festool dust extractor
Thanks Ant and yes I’m sure you’re spot on about the Festool extractor with the sander. It’s just I wasn’t going to buy one just for this review 😀😀
Thank you Mr. Hand-i-Craft. I have some walls to sand at home and would use a sander for woodwork later. I came extremely close to getting the Mirka Deros for all the reasons you outlined. There have been very favourable reviews. However, I have seen plenty of reliability issues on youtube and no just in Europe but in the States as well. It looks like the Deros is great in every way but reliability. Unfortunately for Mirka, I find spending many hundreds of pounds just to play the lottery a very bad deal - the risk is too real. Also your commentary on the finger placement on the Mirka is something that caught my attention as being a potential ergonomic challenge for me where the Festool seem to have chosen a different approach. It looks like it's Festool or something else for me. Thank you again for this review and your other Mirka video. This has been extremely helpful.
It is very fine margins J between the two and they are both excellent. I’ve had plenty feedback from loads of happy Mirka customers, many in the trade. Having said that, these guys have 4 or 5 sanders so when one drops out of action they can ‘absorb’ the loss whilst it gets fixed. If you are spending in the region of four hundred quid on a sander and it’s the only one you’ll own, it’s a no brainer for me to get the Festool. I recently done a fair bit of vertical sanding and it does a great job. Absolutely fine for occasional use in that sense, but comes into its own with everything else. Love my Festool sander pal and you won’t be disappointed if you decide to invest in one😀👍
@@Hand-i-Craft Thanks a bunch for the additional information including the vertical sanding, that's useful. I do respect that Mirka is probably worth it but I've just not seem the amount of heat for a particular model of premium power tool before. The cost-benefit for me is not worth the risk. Mirka should take note.
The whole sander-vacuum thing is a bit of a pain. While Festool make good vacuums, none of their H class have an auto-clean. I need the H class for a glass fibre attic job but need auto clean for the plaster. Looks like it's the Festool sander with a Starmix 1635 H class with iPulse. I hope they connect OK :) I hear tell that Starmix make Metabo and Mafell vacuums so they can't be that bad. All of this is what ya call first world problems :)
I'm looking forward to seeing more of your channel. Your work is an inspiration! : )
Hello again Mr. Hand-i-Craft!
I've bought had the Festool ETS EC 150/5 EQ-Plus about a month ago with a load of Granat Net sanding discs. It connects just fine via a very basic adapter to a Starmix iPulse vacuum.
If you are interested, you can find my Axminster review here: www.axminstertools.com/ie/festool-ets-ec-150-5-eq-plus-eccentric-sander-230v-506717?bvnotificationId=912747c3-cef2-11eb-befa-063806957fab&bvmessageType=REVIEW_APPROVED
(If you can't find it, look for a 4 star review by SallyCantDance.)
For the month I've been using it on and off, I have no regrets - you were right! : ) The only thing I didn't expect was for the backing pads to wear out so fast. I might have some reservations using the Mirka given the same way I've been using the Festool. Thanks again for your video and support! : )
@@CrookedSkew anytime you use abranet/granat net type products you need to use a protector pad (from Festool - not expensive at all and they come in a 2 pack). That protects the main pad from wear.
@@dasyob1 Thanks Nigel. I have the backing pads from Festool and tried using them. They were a little bit more fiddly that I would have liked so I stopped. I'll go back and try again based on your comment. Thanks! : )
Agree about the Mirka
👍👍
Leo God bless you.
Thank you Goran 😀👍
Good comparison. I would have thought the reliability issue the key.
Totally agree Benedict. I didn’t want to revisit the reliability issue again too much as I dedicated a whole video to it with my previous Mirka Deros upload👍👍😀😀
Nice one professor Leo. Good comparison shows which buy. thanks. Wil
Thanks Wil. I did enjoy making this video even though it took an eternity to film and hours of footage cropped in the edit. But to make a comparison directly was interesting to do as it shows their strengths (and weaknesses) in different areas 👍😀
Nice video, thanks for sharing your experience and information. I have the smaller Festool ETS 125 5" and looking to purchase a higher end finishing sander. As you said, I've come to these two options... I hear alot of praise on Mirka, but that's also from folks being sponsored... Mirka looks very nice and I like the lighter weight part, but I cant get over the paddle... I think that would drive me nuts. I sand a ton, producing cutting boards and charcuterie boards each week. My #1 concern to mitigate is my health, so ergonomics is key for me. I think the paddle and finger placement as you described would bother my hand too much. I'll make my decision soon. Thanks again!
Thanks for the comments here Creative Grain and apologies for the late reply. Totally agree with what you’re saying here. Tbh I only use the Festool now and I didn’t realise how much the Mirka paddle bugged me until I no longer need to use it. I’ve found a really comfortable way of holding the Festool now and the Mirka wouldn’t allow me to hold it that way as I wouldn’t be depressing the paddle. I’ve just finished a video on sanding discs which I’ll be uploading in the next couple of days and I used the Festool for a extensive period of time and it was a joy. No vibration, no fatigue at all. If you do make the leap and purchase one, please revisit this comment and let me know how you get on with it 👍. Best wishes, Leo
Great Video - Thank you!
Cheers Gregory 😀😀👍👍
Very informative Leo after looking at reviews of the Mirka Deros and the amount of people that have issues with it you would think they would make some upgrades to iron out the defects as you would expect a long lasting durable tool for the price the reliability issues changed my mind on buying one.
It was an issue I was really looking forward to discussing with them Rasmo. I was due to visit their UK development centre on Monday, but have had to postpone due to the area I live moving into a high tier of covid infection rates so it just didn’t feel right making a non-essential journey. Mirka were really understanding and assured me it is postponed, not cancelled 👍👍👍😀😀
@@Hand-i-Craft That's good that they are happy to postpone and not cancel your visit in these very challenging times i am lucky to be in a relatively low area but it is worrying every time my wife goes' to work as she works for the NHS 👍
As always a informative .i some days sand for hours at a time from wood to solid surface
Cheers Dave😀😀👍👍
Nice details mate! Thanks for the information
Cheers Paul, hope there was one or two things in there that might have been of some help to you 👍😀
Great compare! thank you
Cheers Cheers Wolfgang, hope you’ve found it of some help 👍👍😀
Thanks for the very helpful video, i will be purchasing the festool sander instead of the mirka now👍 subscribed
Cheers chaber, both great sanders but the Mirka reliability concern has me leaning to the Festool which is what I did👍. Glad you found it helpful
Since we are 3 years later now, I would like to know whether the Mirka still works flawless.
Might be worth checking my channel out. I sold the original Deros and went to the Festool as my main sander. I’ve just bought the brand new Deros 2 model which I’ll be now using as my main sander 👍👍
Brilliant review and it looks like it's worth the extra money for the Festool.
Thank you Murray. Both great sanders but the Festool doesn’t appear to suffer with the same reliability concerns so if it was a choice of one or the other, I know were my money would be going😀👍
Enjoyed the video. Cheers
Thank you and you’re welcome 😀👍
Great review Leo
Cheers Jim👍👍😀
Brilliant video mate...Cheers !!
Thanks swissanthony, hope you found it useful 😀
I don't mean to be critical but I don't think the comparison was great. I get that you were trying to do a more apples to apples comparison by using the same sandpaper in both of the tests, but I think that's why there were no discernable differences. I would have compared them with their own "systems". How do you know the Festool wouldn't have had less dust (or no dust at all) on the sheet if it was using the proper paper with some of the larger holes that are optimized for its pad? And I know it would have been expensive to compare the Festool with it's own vac system, but that could have further made a difference. Same paper and same vac predictably produced similar results for both. Same with the oak sanding. I doubt there would be a difference but definitely not with the same paper. Also, on the "adaptability" category, the 150 (6") sander can't take the 125 (5") pad, true, but the ETS EC 125 can take a 150 pad. Don't ask me why, but I have it and it works and the ETS EC 125 and 150 are identical sanders except for a slight difference in the 150's pad shank that keeps it from taking a 125 pad. That's why I always recommend the ETS EC 125 (however, you're stuck with the 3mm stroke, which I think is preferable since it's plenty aggressive for a finish sander and the 3mm stoke gives a slightly better finish sanding. The ETS EC 150 comes in your choice of a 3mil or 5 mil stroke.). It really comes down to the feel and reliability and Festool is just simply a better product. People have been using their sanders and vac systems for 10, 15, 20 years straight and Festool says right on the label that their sander is meant to be used non stop all day, double shifts... it's more of a fleet grade tool and their warranty reflects that. The Mirkas just seem to have lot's of problems for a premium tool. The paddle looks fun to use for about 5 minutes but when do you need instantly variable speed while woodworking? I'd much rather have a traditional speed setting and an on/off button than have to hold down the paddle constantly.
Thanks Aaron for such a detailed piece of feedback. If I could just reply to some of your comments, this video as I pointed out at the beginning isn’t to tell you which sander I think is better. The answer to that question is in my other video where I initially bought the Deros and changed to the Festool. It is merely a guide for folk who might be looking at one or the other.
I take your point about the sanding discs and the extractor. But let’s be honest here, there is no way I’m going to go and buy a Festool extractor just for the purposes of this video. The one I happen to own is the Mirka, but I don’t think the extractor would make any difference to performance. This is why I chose a ‘neutral disc’ for the dust collection. The results are fractionally marginal as they are both excellent. I could have gone with abranet and Festool discs but it was a personal choice call and others would do it different and that’s fine, it just isn’t what I did.
Very true about the Festool 125 and I’ve no idea why they don’t do the same adaptability for the 150, but again I’m just pointing it out. If you’d have done the video about the 125, someone no doubt would have pointed out that in the 150 pad you can’t have a 5mm stroke. It’s the same adaptability problem but flipped the other way. The Mirka 150 in 125 pad won’t do 3mm stroke and the Festool 125 in 150 mode won’t do 5mm mode🤷♂️. Is that correct?
I take onboard all your points and are all fair comments. The reality for this is the Festool is a much better sander. It is extremely reliable, comfortable and produces an incredible finish. Mirka’s biggest fault is it’s reliability. I stand by my comment if you are doing a lot of vertical sanding the lighter Mirka is much more comfortable for prolonged use. If the Deros didn’t have any reliability concerns the decision would be a much more difficult choice. I didn’t want my preference to interfere with impartially on these tests, I just wanted to put out there what I think as someone who only works with one arm what I think the pros and cons are of both and that maybe of some benefit to other folk.
Just out of interest, have you worked with both yourself or made direct comparisons? Be interested your thoughts if you have👍👍
@@Hand-i-Craft Thanks for the response. Again, I didn't mean to be too critical. I understand you were trying to do a more apples to apples comparison, I was just thinking a system vs system comparison would be useful in deciding which to go with. As you said, it would be expensive to buy a Festool vac just for a comparison but even if you used the same vac and used the Festool paper on the Festool and Mirka paper on the Mirka, it might have highlighted some differences. I think the Festool paper is optimized for its own pad. As it turns out, I heard that Mirka makes all of Festool's sandpaper for them, which is odd because I always thought the Festool sandpaper (especially Granat) seemed like better stuff. One interesting test would be the Mirka vs the Festool both using the net style sandpaper. Festool has "granat net" now. But anyway, I get your point about sanding vertically and the weight difference. That wouldn't be a factor for me. No, I haven't actually used the Mirka system but I did want to get one originally. I thought it was probably better and looked cool, but I have a friend who owns a woodworking store and sells both the Mirka and the Festool. I told him I wanted the Mirka because I wanted a dedicated finish sander. Despite the Mirka being more expensive, he said definitely get the Festool as it's a better product... he was insistent. Then I did quite a bit of research and found the same thing you did... lot's of people seem to have trouble with the Mirka. Not so with anything Festool, I have confidence in their products. As they say themselves, their sanders are meant to be used constantly all day long. Lot's of people have been using the same Festool tools decades. I have a decent collection of their tools and so far no issues with any of them.
Thanks again Aaron. I totally agree with everything you’ve said. I hadn’t done the level of research you had initially. I was at Makers Central in 2019 and Mirka had a stand so I had a good chat (no pressure) and tried out the Deros for a good while, which for power tools you never get the opportunity to do. It felt great so I bought it. It was only when the reliability issues started that I learned the hard way that change was needed. After getting my hands on the Festool, although there are plenty things I like about the Deros, the ETS is a much better sander overall.
Btw have you seen the Mirka Iridium discs? Worth a look as when you mentioned Mirka making the Festool discs you might see they have thought they should produce one for themselves 🤷♂️😀
Hi Leo, great vid. Is it easy enough to connect just any old shop vac to the festool? It looks like you dont have the special festool vac (at least in this vid).
Cheers for the message. Yes I've had no issues with the Festool connecting to different brands of shop vac. It connects fine to the Mirka and Trend vacs that I do have. I know quite a few folk who use Cen-Tec quick release connectors on a variety of power tools to their shop vac. Worth checking out 👍
I can attest to festools reliability, been using their sanders for 10 plus years, never had one go bad. Also a tip, if you buy the 5" festool sander, you can also purchase the 6" pad and save a bundle over a mirka whilst having two pad sizes.
Thanks for the comment Woodologist and it is great to hear someone clearly with a lot of experience backing up my own thoughts. Just a quick question about the 5” sander as someone else has mentioned this. Is the 5”
Sander available with a 5mm orbit or just the 3mm? I know you can change the pads on the 5” model, but think you’ll only be able to have a 3mm orbit with it? I could and probably am wrong about this but was just wondering if you knew. Cheers, Leo 😀
@@Hand-i-Craft you are correct, the 5" model comes only in the 3mm stroke, I did but two of the 5mm stroke 6" sanders when they transitioned to the new multijet pads. That's the trick with festool, when they come out with a new version of any given tool, the dealers are able to mark down the previous version as those SKU numbers become discontinued. Thats the time to buy if the new features aren't worth the extra premium
@@thewoodologist8176 Thanks for this info pal, much appreciated 😀😀👍👍
Great 👌 review thanks for sharing...You Sir! Just a complete inspiration to all. I own a mirka ceros as well as the deros. Have not had a problem with none of them. Both feel great but the discontinued mirka Ceros feels better than the deros, more like an air sander. It would be great if the deros will merge with the festool. We will have the perfect sander. Feel and reliability 😊. Thanks again!
Thanks for the kind comment Sergio, much appreciated. I’m sure there are thousands of folk like yourself who had years of trouble free sanding with their Mirka products. It’s just in my other video the comments section became a bit of a haven for people who’ve had nothing but problems like I had. Totally agree with your final comment, create a hybrid of the two and we’d have the perfect sander 😀😀
A friend mentioned you had done a review of the Mirka, curious if you had done a comparison with the Festool native grit paper say 120 and the Mirka with its native sanding disks @120 grit do you think the Mirka would of not come out on top?
Hello Ben, cheers for the message. It’s a question I’ve been asked many times since doing this comparison and for what it’s worth here is my opinion. They’re both fantastic sanders, right at the top of the ladder and separated only by small differences that make it a personal preference. To compare directly with equivalent discs you are looking at the Festool Granat against the Mirka either Iridium or Novastar. You can’t compare the Festool Granat against Abranet from Mirka as the disc is a totally different product and Festool (who don’t make their own discs) don’t sell an equivalent.
My honest opinion is the Mirka wins hands down in a direct comparison. The sander is lighter and easier to use and produces a wonderful finish. The Festool is equally an excellent product, the Granat disc is excellent but not as good as the Mirka equivalents in my opinion. Vertical sanding with the Mirka is much easier than the Festool due to the lighter sander weight.
Why I still own the Festool and not the Mirka is I personally have had reliability issues with the Deros and I can’t afford to own more than one ROS. The fact a sander is such an important part of my work I took the decision to part company with the Mirka in favour of the Festool as the reliability seems to be much better.
If it was purely down to a choice between which I think is better to use then I’d choose the Mirka. Hope this is of some help 👍👍
I was surprised you dare use the Mirka for 30mins Leo 😂 good choice I think sticking with the Festool. The Mirka is probably like a ferrari nice but trouble 😂😋
😳😂You're spot on Karl. It's lovely to use, but you've always got 'that' feeling in the back of your mind. I've been mad busy these last few weeks I've hardly watched any CZcams. I'm off now for a few days and loads to catch up on. Haven't seen your bed build yet but will watch it today 👍
More like a Lotus... Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious
@@TheErador 👍👍👍😂😂😂
Interesting, I am now on my third Deros ( i do a lot of sanding!). I haven't owned a festool sander, so I can't compare. But what I love about the Mirka, is the the stopping time. I take my hand off the paddle and it stops in a couple of seconds. i also have an expensive Makita sander, And when I release the power, its still spins for what seems a long time, frustrating when you are holding it in the air waiting for it to stop to be able to put it down. How does the Festool stopping time compare?
Cheers for the message herbert. To be honest I wasn’t sure so I went out and done a quick check. If you send me an email at 75handicraft@gmail.com I videoed it for you so I’ll send it over as an attachment. Probably easier to view it than me explain it. Cheers, Leo
Excellent comparison there Leo. If I ever upgrade (from my way cheaper Bosch and B&D (musuem) ones) will keep the Festool one in mind 😅
Thanks Suj, much appreciated. I do say the Festool is an investment, albeit an expensive one. What is reassuring though is the resale value. Not that you’d be looking to sell once buying it, but if you check the likes of eBay you’ll see they hold their value remarkably well👍👍😀😀
Never say never. When I saw the price on the Festool sander I said you would have to be crazy to spend 4 times as much for this. Then I sanded and sanded and sanded and was ready to mortgage my house to make the experience better. 😄 they make some great stuff. I picked up a used mini dust distractor for 120$ (stole it) and that thing is amazing. Festool is over priced but dang they are good.
I think when spending that kind of money, reliability is the major factor. How has the Festool been so far? If you don't mind me asking, what made you choose the 5mm over the 3mm?
Festool has been spot on manSKave, love using it. I went for the 5mm version as I see it as more of an ‘all rounder’ whereas I think the 3mm is more of a fine finishing sander. If you are thinking of getting the 3mm, buy the 125mm pad version as you can also buy a 150mm pad to change up to which gives more flexibility 👍👍
@@Hand-i-Craft Yeah I definitely shifted towards the Festool after reading countless stories of reliability issues. I ordered the 125 (still waiting as it's backordered everywhere in the states) FYI - your videos are very informative and great!
What about the RUPES Skorpio E RX256A ? I know they are more into car detailing, but they've also got tools for woodworking. It costs less than both Mirka and Festool and is still a professional tool, all made in Italy. Any suggestion? Have you ever tried it? Thank you
Hello Andrea and greetings from Liverpool. I have to be honest I have never seen or heard of RUPES Skorpio until I read your message. Just had a quick look online and the design appears similar to the Deros with the paddle. Quick price check and here in the UK the price seems similar to the Deros and a bit cheaper than the Festool. Interesting, but I think folk in the UK would be more inclined to go Festool or Mirka because of customer support etc. Don’t think any of the major retail outlets stock RUPES, but thank you for pointing them out to me 👍😀
@@Hand-i-Craft Thank you! I discovered them few months ago because my brother is a car detailer and he said that Rupes is the Ferrari of tools (Sanders and polishers).
I may buy the Skorpio in a little bit and I'll let you know my impressions. But thank you for this video anyway! Really helpful!
P. S. Some people say that the costumer service of Rupes is great :)
Does one of these sanders remove material faster? I have the Festool ETS 150 and i have heard the Mirka is a bit quicker. Thoughts?
Cheers Benjamin for the message. Having used both I’d say the choice of sanding disc would determine the degree of material removal much more than either of these sanders. If you’re after quick stock removal then look at the Festool Rotex. These are both excellent finishing sanders but can do the ‘hard yards’ if you use the more abrasive discs. I wouldn’t say the Mirka is a bit quicker but that’s my personal opinion 👍
@@Hand-i-Craft interesting! Thanks for the response. Great video!
Brilliant video mate! I watched both this one and the review of the Mirka.
I have the BOSCH GET 75-150 and was hoping that could do both rough and fine sanding for me. It is the one one that competes with the Festool Rotex. And the reviews were brilliant. However it is not as balanced as people were saying. It tips backwards when using it with a dust hose, meaning that I have to use it 2 handed. And while I still have both hands available, sanding like this hurts my back after just a short while. So, I am looking for a 1 handed alternative.
The festool ETS looks great, however when every time you set it down it looks like it is tipping backwards. Is it as unbalanced as it looks in the video?
Chees and thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the kind feedback Goran. The balance issue with the sander is a strange one as on their own they are perfectly balanced, but it is when you add a dust extraction hose it can cause the sander to tip back a little. I don’t have a Festool extractor so can’t comment whether they keep the alignment correct, but I can say it is a fantastic sander and I love using it 👍👍
@@Hand-i-Craft Thanks again, Leo. What do you do for smaller sanders? Or does the ETS cover most of your sanding needs?
@@NomadMakes Interesting you ask Goran as I’ve got a Mirka Deos sander on loan from Mirka at the moment to compare with my Festool RTS 400. Going to do a comparison video early in the new year so keep an eye out 😀👍
Try the ETS sanders (not the EC variants), they have more of an 'upright palm sander' feel and I love mine.
Hi Leo, hope your well. just a quick question on the sanding discs. why do some discs have more holes in the than others?
Hello Gavin, bit of an educated guess but my understanding is companies make discs specific to their products and other companies who don’t make sanders try to come up with a ‘generic’ pattern. For example, Festool Granat match their own sanders hole pattern perfect, Mirka slightly different as Abranet is a mesh and would work on anything. Then you have the likes of SIA, massive abrasive manufacturer but to my knowledge don’t make sanders. Their patterns are kind of a ‘line of best fit’ if that makes sense so they work well on most sanders. Then there are the cheap as chips 8 hole design that quite a lot of budget sanders have. Dust extraction is key really for two reasons, firstly your lungs obviously and second trying to extract as much dust off the surface so you’re not in effect putting more micro scratches onto the surface you are trying to sand. Hope this makes some kind of sense pal 🤷♂️😀
@@Hand-i-Craft thanks Leo 👍 that saying…. You learn something new everyday 😎
😊👍.
Cheers pete 👍👍
Well explained and great tests. Newsub
Thanks Peter. Hope you found it useful and cheers for the sub👍👍😀
Festool the best ever!!!
They do make fantastic products 😀👍
Oneday Milwaukee enters the chat with a line of fuel random orbital sanders.
Would be interesting to see definitely 😀😀👍👍
Did you sand your cover or your wood?
Apologies Jean, I do not understand the question
Same motors!!
Interesting. Is it Mirka who makes them or Festool or a third party just out of interest? 😀
You didn’t sell the Mirka then??
I’ve still got it Mr B, but will be selling it as I don’t use it now. I think when I order the next load of timber for the roof structure on the workshop I’ll then realise I need the money to fund it 😂
@@Hand-i-Craft. Ahh I see.. I really have a great admiration for your skill sir having only the use of one arm. 👍🏼
I have big respect for you as a human,
I want to buy the Festool ets ec 150/ only wich one to buy the 150/3 or 150/5.
I’m a painter and most of the sanding are doors and walls preparing for painting.
Please give me some advise wich one to choose
Thanks for your very kind comments Barbary. It is such a difficult question, but I guess it all boils down to your own specific requirements. The 5mm orbit is ever so slightly more abrasive than the 3mm, but again from my limited knowledge it is often in the hand of the operator that can determine the best finish. If you only had to choose one, based on your line of work, wouldn’t the 3mm be better? But I guess if the 3mm takes longer to produce as good a finish, isn’t the ‘time is money a factor’?
Hand-i-Craft dear highly respected friend,
Yes time is money it is to make sanding doors easier and faster.
Personally I bought the 150/5 which was my own personal preference and I think it is fantastic 👍
The heavier Festool treats vibrations the same as a large airplane treats turnulence. Inertia.
Good point Frank. I think the auction of the extraction also helps as, if the piece you’re sanding is flat, when you lift the sander off it it’s like ‘peeling’ it away 😀
why the hell are you wearing a mask when you are sanding outdoors with a dust extractor?
Headphones and dust mask you sure lol