Ford 8.8 Assembly & Set Up (Part 2)
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- čas přidán 7. 07. 2016
- Here's (Part 2) of the Ford 8.8 differential assembly and set up. This took a little longer than expected, hence the need for a 2 part video.
Link to (Part 1): • Ford 8.8 Assembly & Se...
Link to (Short Version): Link Posted when video becomes available
Link to (Final Assembly): Link Posted when video becomes available
Link to previous video in series: • Ford 8.8 Assembly & Se...
Differential Basics video: • Things You Should Know...
This is a complete overview of how to assembly and set up a Ford 8.8 differential. It shows how to assemble the differential, set backlash, and set up the gear tooth pattern.
The best place for answers to your automotive questions: www.ericthecarguy.com
Camera: Brian Kast
Thanks for watching!
Discussion about this video: www.ericthecarguy.com/kunena/...
Special thanks to
Kings Ford: kingsfordinc.com
Ford Performance techline: performanceparts.ford.com/con...
Ford 8.8 PDF: performanceparts.ford.com/dow...
Gear tooth pattern guide: www.ringpinion.com/Content/Bo...
Dana Differential assembly guide: www2.dana.com/pdf/5717.PDF
Ford differential identification guide: www.fordification.com/tech/rea...
Article on the 8.8: www.hotrod.com/how-to/transmis...
Parts
My differential: lmr.com/item/M4204F318C/Musta...
My gear set: lmr.com/item/LRS-4209FRA-K/Mu...
My differential cover: lmr.com/item/M4033G2/Ford-Mus...
My 5 lug conversion kit: lmr.com/item/SVE-2300DK-B/199...
Pinion head bearings: www.ringpinion.com/b2c/Search...
Pinion head bearing races: www.ringpinion.com/b2c/Search...
Pinion flange sleeve Federated 99181: www.amazon.com/SKF-99181-Spee...
Ultra black RTV: www.amazon.com/Permatex-82180...
Gear Paint: www.amazon.com/Ratech-500-Mar...
Royal Purple gear oil: www.amazon.com/Royal-Purple-1...
Tools
Differential Shim Installer: www.summitracing.com/parts/yg...
Pinion Flange Holder: www.summitracing.com/parts/aa...
Bushing Driver Kit: www.jbtoolsales.com/astro-pne...
Dial Indicator: www.jbtoolsales.com/central-t...
Digital caliper: www.jbtoolsales.com/general-t...
Inch Pound Torque Wrench: www.jbtoolsales.com/precision...
Brass drift: www.jbtoolsales.com/sk-hand-t...
**Answers to your automotive questions found here: www.ericthecarguy.com/faq
Social Network Links
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Twitter: / ericthecarguy
Google+: plus.google.com/1001951801966...
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Stay Dirty
ETCG
Due to factors beyond the control of EricTheCarGuy, it cannot guarantee against unauthorized modifications of this information, or improper use of this information. EricTheCarGuy assumes no liability for property damage or injury incurred as a result of any of the information contained in this video. EricTheCarGuy recommends safe practices when working with power tools, automotive lifts, lifting tools, jack stands, electrical equipment, blunt instruments, chemicals, lubricants, or any other tools or equipment seen or implied in this video. Due to factors beyond the control of EricTheCarGuy, no information contained in this video shall create any express or implied warranty or guarantee of any particular result. Any injury, damage or loss that may result from improper use of these tools, equipment, or the information contained in this video is the sole responsibility of the user and not EricTheCarGuy. - Auta a dopravní prostředky
I'm a seasoned DIY shade tree mechanic and never shy away from working on my own cars but rebuilding my 8.8 rear has always been intimidating to me. I watched this video several times along with reading the Ford Racing documentation and I just successfully completed it. I did a complete removal,clean up, POR-15 & black topcoat and it looks beautiful! Upgraded to 373s, carbon fiber clutch pack and replaced all bearings and seals. Your videos gave me the confidence to take it on. Thank you!
Did you have to by all the tools he was using in the video? The backlash measurer, Mic tool to measure the shim thickness and such?
@@jackkhol4251 Wow...My comment is from 4yrs ago... I had to purchase an inch pound torque wrench to set the pinion pre-load. Everything else I already had.
7 years later and still a valuable resource. Thanks!
I appreciate you showing the difficulty involved in adjusting everything, sometimes it seems everyone else just figures stuff out really easy and its nice to see someone else go through the same problems as myself. Really good stuff, thank you for making this video series!
There are quite a few diff rebuilding videos out there, but this is by far one of the best. It is explained in a clear concise manner describing, not just how and why things are done , but highlighting the exact issues that everyone will face when attempting this job. Excellent video.
He sure is the best one I have found on this topic and job. I been scratching my head with my mustang. And now it’s much easier.
Eric, for future reference (seeing as you're a ford/foxbody guy) what you can do for the setup procedure to speed things up is to take a dial caliper and measure the thickness of the original pinion head with the original pinion shim on it. Then measure the new pinion and add shims to equal the thickness of the original setup. (If sticking with the original bearing brand) this will in most cases get you almost spot on for pinion depth if not spot on you're damn close! It took me about 10 ford 8.8's to realize this little known trick. Also as stated before you can do initial setup without the crush sleeve and only use it for final assembly! I've been in your shoes pal! Love the vids, I'm sure you've helped a ton of guys out. Your t5 vids helped me out ten fold!!!
One of the greatest parts of the Internet is people volunteering their hard earned experience to help others out. You don't have to worry about hurting your trade because the vaaaaast majority of people are still taking their rear ends in to professionals. For those of us that are really inclined to do it ourselves, your help is invaluable. I narrowed an 8.8 to put into an old Mopar. (Another process i was only aware of and capable of because of folks like you sharing.) Seriously... thank you so very much.
im about to do this so hopefully this will help me
@SethStang_ same, on a 8.8
good luck i am waiting on more crush washers to continue lol@@colin957
I just learned a lot with this vid .... Which is if I ever need a rear end built to take it to the shop lol
I kinda wanna get an old rear end to try it see if I can do it lol
Eric, I use shims often in my workplace to align electric motors to pumps. I also found it difficult to measure stacks of shims, because the measurement varies. A good solution I found is to press the stack of shims together with some pliers (with quite a bit of pressure) and while doing this, measure as close to the pliers as possible. The shims must also be completely free of oil. Only that way I am able to get reasonably repeatable measurements of shim stacks.
"what do we do?"
"same thing we've been trying to do Pinky, take over the world."
This is why I watch you, Eric.
Changed the diff fluid on my Ford 8.8 w/ 3.55 & limited slip a few days ago--thank god I don't need a rebuild! Don't know that I would have had the patience you did with those shims.
22:45
That was beautiful.
LOL!!!
+Michael Grifes @ l impezas mas @ tradução
+Michael Grifes @ l impezas mas @ tradução @ x XZ michele
Great video series. I'd switch out the Chinese dial indicator for a US one.
Great videos on this 8.8 rebuild! Probably the best I've seen. The other guys don't show all the trial and error. There's a lot to be learned by the error!
I like this video for the obvious reasons but I also love how it shows the metal and physical process of getting something RIGHT instead of just "good enough".
Eric, you are very patient. I would have had to walk away a few times on this one. They make this stuff look so easy on TV. This is a good video because it shows what this can really be like.
I have no intention of replacing rear gears(especially after watching this) but this is a great bearing tutorial. Thanks for enduring all the pain. Imagine doing this on jacks in your old garage :-).
This is a real video with out removed clips! I did rear end 3 times and still can’t get it right. What a pain in the ass. Great job brother
You have the patience of a saint, I was losing my mind watching you have to adjust them over and over! Congratulations though and another great video from you both.
So far been watching every minute on this rebuild and setup. It's great you are showing the oops' and all the headaches that come with it. It shows how it is in real life and not some slick 15 minute video that makes it look easy. Subscribed!
What an emotional rollercoaster! That is the kind of perseverance that gets the job done! Thank you, Eric!
you're a patient man Eric , great job .
yea....i would of give up already.....
+Micheal Spence *have *given
Thanks ; now I think, I know why my dad kept me out of his shop when he was working on projects like the one you just did .!!!! Thanks for your hard work !!!
Most honest gearing video I’ve seen. Thanks for the honesty.
Omg dude… watched part 1 & 2 all the way through. I felt your pain in this video more than I’ve ever felt watching fail army or any of those vids!
Absolutely fantastic videos! I know this drove you to the point of insanity but watching you figure out all these problems makes me more confident about doing a gear swap on my f-150. Thanks again!
Thanks for showing what a pain it is to set up a rear end. Most videos sow all the happy endings and not the trial and error that needs to be done.
By watching the awful experience Eric has had putting this diff together has changed my mind about rebuilding my 8.8 due to some howl... until it blows I'll live with it and just remind myself of this series when I'm annoyed by the noise.
Thanks Eric!
I think a wider variety of shims would have made things easier.
The cool thing about Eric is that he has experience but he also dives in and learns along the way. Which that's what makes a mechanic a mechanic, have no fear of the machines. Fearing mechanisms is what scares people and makes them forget about performing the job themselves. Trial and error = accomplishment = knowledge
Integra DIY
Good points, I've learned a ton by undertaking many new jobs on my cars... but I do fear becoming frustrated or screwing something up. It's summer time and i want to be able to drive my Mustang not watch it sit in the garage torn apart because my backlash can't get to the right spot.
Error can = expensive repairs/parts. but learning and the end result is worth it sometimes.
Great video Eric! Love the fact you showed the good as well as ALL the frustration. I had to subscribe for this reason. It's nice to see someone not just cut and edit in the good stuff where everything just falls right into place. It's nice to see problem solving. Well done!
I watched this video probably 4 or 5 times, read the Ford manual twice, and prepared for battle with my new ring and pinion expecting to do it 10-20 times over hours upon hours of shop time..... Some how nailed all my specs and gear patterns on the first try.
Lol that just seems wrong
Eric you saved me $550 with these videos. Ended up setting up my 8.8 IRS rear with a new 3.73 R&P and a new torsen differential myself rather than paying a shop. Thank you
I have been watching your videos for a long time now (3-4 years). I just want to thank you for all your time and effort you put into them. I have learned a lot! So thanks Eric and stay dirty!
Differential specialist repair shop. Depending on type and difficulty of differential. $350/$600 labor + parts... Disassemble differential, inspect all components, clean entire differential of contaminants/debris, set back up to specifications and warranty the work. Or you can have the CZcams I fixed it myself headache and still have an improper gear pattern that you think is right... Priceless
Eric, a book I have said the wear mark will move from toe to heel depending on the backlash (wear on the toe can be moved toward the heel by increasing backlash) and the wear mark moves from the high face to low by changing the pinion shim (thinner shims moves the mark to higher)
I would have scrapped that whole thing by now!! LOL I admire your patience!!
Erick you just gave me all the courage I needed to swap my differential to a 3.73 ratio 31 splines axles. Explained just like a teacher would do to a student. Thank you for taking your time sharing your knowledge and experiences.
This video just made millions of dollars for diff shops across the Country! Great information. I'm going to give it a try on my 8.8, but there will be a heck of a lot more cursing!
I haven't looked yet to see if you're still doing videos but thank the Gods you did this 7 years ago. Getting ready to do my 8.8 out of a 86 Bronco and getting more reassured that I can do it after watching your video. The rearend is down to bear bones and what i think after watching will be to drop it and put on a work bench. You did say it was heavy. Thanks so much for all the trial and tribulations you went through and showed us, sortof know what to expect.
Sorry Eric, but I had to smile at your frustration on setting up this rear end. I’ve done about 15 to 20 of these and feel your pain, they do get easier with each one. I was a GM mechanic and went to GM rear end school during my dealership employment and they had a lot of specialty tools for set up. I learned a lot about setting the patterns and adjustments. The old days when I use to blow up rear ends it was with the hand tools and use what you had and fabricate what you needed. A frustrating time I had at the GM dealer was a brand new Chevy Van back in 77, it was a 350 c. I. with an automatic and just a standard 1/2 ton empty cargo van with two bucket seats. The customer complained of a rear end howl at a certain cruising speed, the shop Forman asked me to check the pattern and I did and it was dead money. He said we may have to change it a little to remove the howl at cruising speed ( can’t remember the speed but it was around 45 to 50 ) so I did a few changes with no luck. After 4 shots at slight pattern changes and no difference and two days of frustrations the old timer in the truck shop came over and said just send it over to service and have them undercoat the floor, these are notorious for echo because they’re just a hollow sound box that transfers any sound to the driver. That took care of the problem and I asked him why he didn’t tell me earlier, he said I needed the experience and the lesson learned was invaluable to me. So I put it where it was when it came in and shipped it. Always mic and right down your original shim positions from factory if your not shanking out ring and pinion and adjust from there if changing out bearings, it’s a starting point.
The experience, the patience, the humor. Wish I could subscribe over and over again.
This series has taught me so much about diffs
I must commend you for this video. The main reason being that you left in all the difficulties you faced. Your viewers are truly learning through your experience. Great job!
Anyone else remember when part one was filmed back in 1979, and part 2 was made available in 2017.
I hear he did finally get this rear end together, but by the time he did, the loss of memory set in and he doesn't remember what he was building it for. This rear end is now in a museum for the longest rebuild in history.
Hey, Eric. When measuring backlash it's really important to measure where the contactpattern is, and also having your probe in 90 degree angle from the flank, else the readings you get is incorrect.
BTW, my profession is developing and manufacturing gearsets for heavy trucks. When watching this video i was screaming at my screen "ERIC YOU SHOULD ADD SHIMS TO THE PINION" and other nerdy stuff.
Thanks for making my day!
Yea, I can almost hear people screaming at the computer screen as I film some of these episodes. Thanks for your input.
ALWAYS get your backlash right before checking the tooth pattern, I've learned this the hard way!!
Differentials are one of my favorite things to work on. Takes practice to get it right.
I feel for you.
I just rebuilt the differential in my Jeep Liberty 8.25 and it has adjustable collars on either side to set the backlash. They literally just screw in and out of the housing. So much easier than what you had to go through.
Lot's of patience was displayed, I'm surprised you didn't go full HULK and smash it on the floor. LOL
First: You're my hero! Setting these things up is intimidating, especially on a daily driver (cause you gotta get it done). Through your pain, I've learned a ton. As we saw from your pain, there's a relationship between pinion depth and backlash. Assuming no changes in carrier shims, increase the pinion depth and backlash decreases and visa versa. I've seen that there is a pinon depth spec for these diffs that must be set with a depth tool before starting. Once that's set, it's a matter of getting backlash set. Doing it that way is supposed to reduce overall setup time. I cannot confirm or deny this assertion. Awesome series of videos on this subject. I have to try this on a Dana 44 and you've REALLY helped me with both fear reduction and how to proceed.
Thank you for the video, very informative! I just went through the process about two months ago and my diff already started to make a whining sound. I'm going to take it apart again and with this video I shouldn't have any issues.
Thanks again!
99.9 percent of your problems is the micrometer. The other is buy a bigger shim kit
yeah that dial didn't look consistent.
I think we all need to take a breath, and truly understand just how great and easy the old nine inch Ford really is.
Appreciate the pain you went through to make this video!!!! I am doing my first diff rebuild (and full spool/c-clip eliminators) next week, when I run into issues...I can look back on this video, and know there is light at the end of the tunnel...might stop me from throwing a breaker bar into the woods out of frustration!
Epic! Best diff setup info I have ever seen! It is really helpful to see the trial and error reality of the process!
That's why I left that in. I'll have a 'short' version coming out next week for those that don't want to see the struggle.
Man bro do I ever feel your pain. Try doing the same thing laying on your back in the gravel driveway. I don't ever want to setup another rear end EVER again. It literally about killed me from my blood pressure. Lol. Great content though. Showing the struggles just like the everyday person has. Keep up the good work. These 2 videos explain exactly how it goes when trying to set up a new rear end.........
This was super helpful. Thank you for this video. Also, thank you for showing all the trials and tribulations. Most make it look like a 20 minute job. Glad to see the real experience. Thanks.
Haha, Ya know back in the day my pops would've started cursin and throwin wrenches if this happened. You showed great self control and hung in there... major props to you Eric. You just earned another well deserved sub.
alot of effort you put there, good results, I figured out now why rebuilding differentials usually fail because no one is doing like what you did there. keep up the great work.
much better learning the concept by watching the struggles and seeing how everything fits together. I know I'll never do this type of work but I still watched the whole thing. great job
I like to watch your videos on speed setting 2. It's like you're all coked up, extra entertaining and informative.
This has helped me so much. I'm going to be putting the 3.73 gears in my 2014 mustang and had been having a hard time understanding how to do it just from reading. This video made it all make sense and now I have the knowledge and confidence to do it. Thanks
Same here, I'm going to be rebuilding my xr6t with 3.91 gears and a trutrac. Seeing the trial and error going on here I think will really help me. I definitely need to get a good quality micrometer first though.
This may be the most precision-oriented work I have seen you perform yet.
The series is just getting started.
I can't believe I am just seeing this! I have done my gears once before and it was sooo painful I swore I'd never try again. This video gives me confidence to try again. Thanks!
Had this same issue when I was a kid rebuilding the rear axle. The machinist told me to get a piece of glass. Lay 800 grit wet sand paper on the glass. Use a a figure 8 motion holding the shim on the wet sand paper. Use the thickest shim. Then creep up on the proper backlash...As I had plenty of thin shims....Worked like a charm.
All this while it was still in the car!
I rarely comment on any vids, due to my typing skills mostly. I am in the middle of changing differential carrier bearings in my Dodge Ram van, 2003. I've viewed sooo many vids and researched so intensely, and still barely able to comprehend all the instruction that had to be fallowed to exact specs, or else. For the 4th time, I find myself having to CRAWL under my van again and get to the pinion, remove it, etc..,etc.,, . This evening I Literally through in the towel. I was going to do something bad! Then this video, Thanks Eric. I'm heading out to make this rite! It was Inspiring, and I LMFAO< Great vid Eric.
I never had to setup a rear end but have replaced a few pinion seals over the years, I never placed any kind of sealer on then and never had any issues. don't know if its luck or it just may not be really needed. Great video again, patience is key!
I guess this is why I've always heard have a pro do your gear swap. this learning curve is always there for the first timer
Very good video, especially showing the potential issues involved. Building a rear end isn't that bad, its just time consuming, frustrating and tedious to get right. Having done it, and I had guys who knew what they were doing there, I wouldn't do it again. I would pay for one already set up now. But, the experience was worth it. Thanks for showing that and looking forward to more.
This was a very LEARNING video. VERY full of valuable knowledge - stuff that I must admit I lacked in. But now, I feel that with patience - I too, can do this. Bravo!
stp oil treatment works amazing on bearings and any kind of friction surface it sticks and stays on it forever. it won't hardly wash off your hands.
Great vid. Showed a lot of patience bearing that cross.What a relief to get it back up on the car.
The patience is strong with this man. Respect.
I am realizing just how lucky I am that I was able to throw in all my factory shims and backlash and pattern both turned out perfect.
That's what he should have done.
this video helped out a lot! i had rear end howl on deceleration. this was my first time changing gears and I decided to get a detroit trutrac for my mustang. my dumb ass was checking pinion preload with the Diff in the pumpkin since I got to take it out and start all over im going to use a fail-safe crush sleeve... thanks eric!
Your video was a huge help in setting up my first rearend, an 8.8/GM 7.5 hybrid rearend for my 98 Turbo Camaro...thanks!
I'm rebuilding the axle on my Lincoln Town Car and these videos are very helpful. Thank you.
Wow, you have a superhuman amount of patience. I think I would have started chucking tools long before you got that done! Then I would have taken the diff to an axle shop and paid the guy to laugh at the mess I made of it.
I admire your patience and persistence, bro.
When you sand it with the roloc (die grinder) it heats up and expands. If you ever have to do this again get yourself a decent machinist's micrometer. Just handling the shim will be enough to heat it and change measurement.
I knew you'd get it sorted. Getting it done must feel great!
Great video Eric. You are an extremely patient man alright. But job done at end of the day and you can be proud you did it. Top job!
I paid $400 labor to have a reputable diff company to rebuild my factory 8" mustang rear end. After watching this video I am glad I did. Went with eaton tru trac posi and motive gears and axles. Should work for 375hp.
you have confirmed my suspicion. I lack the patience for this job.
Man I’m on day 5 of this shit I’m just going to send it lol
The word maddening does correctly define trying to set backlash. Great job eric and awesome video man.
Love love LOVE your videos Eric! thia series has brought me sooooo close to a much needed gear size upgrade that I am scared to attempt! haha
Wow that was frustrating as a viewer, cannot imagine how annoying it was for you. Thankfully everything worked out! Also two things that are true in this video, tighter is better, and you can never have enough lube ;)
Dunno about tighter is better. On the spot more like, because tighter = excessive wear. Ideally you want everything on the engineered sweet spot. Where momma pencil drew it as they used to say.
+aserta I was implying tighter is better than too loose in clearance, metal surfaces can always wear into spec depending on application
I admire your patience and desire to get it right. I would imagine this would be an expensive job for a customer if you were willing to take it on.
New from M Night Shamalan, a new scary movie - The Shimining.........
Here I am watching a 38 minute video I said I'd never watch because I'm not a mechanic, I must like you or something Eric. You have much more patience than I, I would have called it 'good enough' long ago.
I just went through this same procedure on the 8.8 in my 88 bronco back in April. All of my frustration and anxiety about getting it right came flooding back watching you swap shim and paint those gears. I enjoyed learning and eventually got it set up right, but man, it was frustrating! Not looking forward to regearing my 94 bronco anymore.
I'm watching this 2.5 yrs later and having the same problem. I must say f8.8 (out of an explorer) must be the worst axle to set up ever. I've already invested 16 hours of my time in to this and only during the last hour it looked like I was finally going in the right direction. My contact pattern is still far apart. If I win this I'll open a bottle. Thanks for your help Eric, much appreciated!
You use ALL the original shims.
I paid to have my rear end built. Now I know what a good decision that was. :)
You said that right I don't think I would ever want to do this to save a couple dollers!!!! Because I was thinking about trying to do it and I dont know the first thing about the gears but put gear oil in it, like YOU think goodness
When I did my 8.8 I found that I needed to put my drop indicator on the outside edge of the ring gear. It moved when it was on the face giving me wildly innacurate readings. Kind of like riding a slope and slips downhill ever so slightly. Great vid. I went through the same frustration.
Eric you are awesome. thanks for all the detail. couldn't do it any better. thx
great work Eric
Eric, I've learned a lot watching this series of videos/ Great patience.
Wow what a freakin marathon! Thats whats it takes sometimes I guess, good job thanks for all the great info!
buy a small granite surface plate like 12 inches square or so from an industrial supply company. Then buy some different grits of sheet sand paper from a big box store place the sheet on the flat granite plate and rub the shims on it. This will trim the whole face pretty much equal. The way you did it the shims won't come out parallel which will add to your problems. The small plate can be had for less than 50 bucks last time I checked. Try Grizzly Industrial for a source. Also this will remove any burrs from the shims and let you know if the shims are flat to start with. That rear end setup has soooo many variables to effect the outcome a bent shim that is installed in a different orientation will yield different results just one of many things. Also could have taken all the shims to a machine shop to get them surface ground flat. because they are stamped out when manufactured which causes a slight dish shape. Also buy a real micrometer instead of that Harbor Freight paper weight snap gage you are using. Sorry for the rant.
I think I'll look for a different set of shims that has more sizes next time.
+EricTheCarGuy :
Jesus Eric, i get that you wanted to do this right, but does being in the spec of backlash and the touching surface? Will it drive better? Have better torque? Extend the lifetime of the diff?
Yes to all. If the differential isn't set up correctly it could be catastrophic.
Had a blast with you guys shooting the holiday pics man..
this could not of been fun, i admire your patience Eric!
EricTheCarGuy, thank you so much for this detailed informational video. Successfully installed an LSD in my Crown Victoria all thanks to this series!
Here I am again 3 years later rebuilding a diff for my Ford Econoline van.
Thanks again!
Look at Eric painting like Bob Ross!
Man this thing was a pain in the But! I’m doing a 12 Bolt Chevy on a 70 Chevelle and hope I don’t go through the same trouble. I truly appreciate the video though it was a huge help...
Eric, Excellent video! I think it's great that you didn't edit out all of the trial and error. Most people don't have a clue how tedious this process is. I do wish you would have shown more about establishing the correct carrier bearing preload. Do you have a video on that?
dang ..getting ready to attempt my first 8.8 set up....this looks frightening ...lmao......ive been searching for awhile now for a good set up video like this ....every time i watch a video its some dude going into his life history ...his car history or his family history or some other bs story's i care nothing for at the moment because im here to learn about this rear end set up business....nice video ...thanks for not telling me all about how your last dog died and keeping it ALL about setting up that rear end ......lol...nice man nice.... thanks for the video man !!!!!
Great video! Thanks for posting.
Eric, while your pain amuses me somewhat, i've been there too. Days when it feels like bashing your head against the wall would generate more forward progress then actually working.
Hopefully you get the same feeling when the project is done that I do :)