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Biggest Hollow Point? Underwood Maximum Expansion .45 Colt VS .40 S&W
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- čas přidán 6. 01. 2022
- In a journey to try to find a decent load for the S&W Governor, I am testing the Underwood Maximum Expansion 220 gr solid copper hollow point in .45 Colt. To compare that to something else I am testing the Maximum Expansion 140 gr solid copper hollow point in .40 S&W through my 5" S&W M&P pistol. I do a 4 layer denim and 10% Clear Ballistics test with and without 1/4" MDF and a chronograph and practical accuracy test. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.co...
Would like to see what a mess they would make out of a Paul Harrell meat target. As always great video.
I bet they would come in short of the meat ribs in back getting stuck in the grapefruit lung tissue
Just started watching and already agree
I miss the bologna packs. This would of been a good round to destroy some mystery meat.
Wow, that really is maximum expansion!
Probably a good bullet for summertime use. Going through thinner layers of clothing than in winter, the bullet would be a stopper. Good video. Thx
Redicilus rounds, not good penetration, but expansion is insane. Very good Gun Sam 👍
I’ve been waiting years for this test
Results are as expected. I've seen it tested and tested it pretty well myself. ShootingTheBull410's tests with the 3 inch Judge and 6 1/2 inch Raging Judge mimicked my results and the Governor performed nearly the same as the 3 inch Judge. Still gets amazing expansion but shallow penetration. The 6 1/2 inch barrel kicks it up to around the 11 inch mark, which is still shy of FBI minimums, where as the 18 inch barrel on a Rossi Circuit Judge takes it to around 15 inches or so with the petals starting to peel back a little from the extra velocity. Overall, I found it to be an extremely consistent load in terms of penetration and expansion with all barrel lengths tested.
I like the load and in the Circuit Judge would have no issues using as a home defense load. But, the shorter barrels I'd use something else first.
Great Info Thanks !!
@@cybister4864 He had some tests with a 3 inch barrel. But yes, most were with the 2 inch Public Defender. That being said, yes different gels and loads could account for it. Either way, when you crunch the numbers for averages they are nearly the same.
So compared to my own tests and data things seem to line up.
Great ammo for those skinny little grey guys you see in alien abduction movies.
That is the wildest round I've ever seen for a 45 Long Colt. It's no wonder both didn't penetrate very far when they open up like a parachute. If they shed their pedals the shank could penetrate more. Still a very good video
Cool video thanks.
Ooooh I been waiting for this one. I know it'll underpenetrate, but for people concerned about overpenetration, such as apartment dwellers, it's probably about as good as you'll get. Still excited for that Federal 410 000 Buck.
Those are slow rounds for that cross section to penetrate far, but I wonder how that .40 cal bullet would do at 10mm velocity?
I LOVE MY BIG TAURUS REVOLVER.. I HAVE A 454 , 45 COLT, 410 IN 3"bbl....sweet accurate gun-it weighs 4 lbs and when you shoot out you can throw that big metal HOG at your enemy! GREAT VIDEO. YOU ARE HAVING FUN AND I LIKE IT!! those large expansion rounds are perfect for my big one. should make a fine mess.
Isn't the main goal in home defense to stop the attacker well it might not have the penetration to kill, but I think it probably would, it would definitely stop someone
Looks like a pretty good round to me. Most of us average people are probably going to be shooting at a forward facing threat and 6" is more than enough to destroy the heart and lungs of any but the largest of thugs. A couple of follow up shots are going to drop even the biggest two legged threats most of us are likely to encounter. Another great vid.Keep em coming and stay safe brother.
Alot of assumptions to put your life on it, no thanks
That’s a very fundamentally flawed understanding of ballistic gel. Ballistics gel does not equal living tissue, it is only a consistent medium to compare one round to another. Penetration in living tissue is typically less than what is seen in ballistics gel, even more so if hitting bone. The FBI 12-18” in gel is far closer to 6-12” with live tissue & bone.
@@mblake0420 I literally just said you lose penetration in living tissue. Not sure what point you’re trying to say?
Different thread sorry
Purchased this ammo because I live in a VERY crowded city & don't like "collateral damage" someone gets a double tap of this in the upper torso I don't think they'd be in much shape to continue an attack😉😏
Based on your test results, the Judge/Governor equals 45 Colt with a 1/2" bbl. The round you tested is moving in the right direction by placing the bullet well out of the case. A lead bullet that fits the chamber closely, seated well out and hollow point or not in a 1 & 20 tin lead ratio could be a winner. The case powder capacity would be huge, so charges will have to be increased just to get to 16K PSI. This alone will result in higher velocity assuming correct bullet fit. IDK what that revolver is rated for, but will be stunned if it couldn't hold up to a lifetime of 20K PSI ammo. Since it won't fit into antiques and clones of those it's a blank canvas. Garrett, Blackhills, anyone, ANYONE? Good ammo would increase sales of this otherwise curio firearm.
The clogged HP theory may not hold up to testing, looking at the depth of the petal cuts???
Actually, in his tests, that he's done, it has similar ballistics to a 45 Colt with a 4 inch barrel.
@@vlogfriendsutopia I will give it to you when comparing loads from companies like Wininnington et al, but from more boutique companies such as this company that often perform much better even at standard pressures. I was being a bit hyperbolic stating 1/2", just my sick sense of humor. I was disappointed with what could have been an amazing development that at best pretty average. (I will apologize for running long. Point #3 probably should have been #1.) #1 the round won't fit into anything except Judge/Governor so we are not concerned with the ammo finding it's way into a 1960s Spanish SAA clone, the kind of reason always rolled out to justify wormy ammo. #2 moving the bullet out of the case not only prevents use in the afore mentioned clones, it increases the combustion chamber by a good percentage (much more than in rifle cartridges long loaded). I assume they pressure tested and added powder till they hit a target pressure. I also assume pressure testing was not done in a revolver. Logic tells me that 8.0 grains of Unique (just an example) at 16,000 PSI will have lower velocity than 9.8 grains of the same powder at 16,000 PSI. All else being equal.
#3 Sam's revolver in past tests has given every indication that the chambers are roomy when using the 45 Colt. If you are going to be able to fire shotgun shells in it, it has to be that way. It's a good bet that whatever pressure they loaded to in their pressure bbl. Is not achieved in his and probably other revelers of similar ilk. When they (I assume) tested in a Judge/Governor and got cowboy action velocities, someone said "Good enough! We aren't going to sell many of these anyway, and we have spent too much time already". Self fulfilling prophecy? Can't blame them too much I suppose. It's all about the Benjamins, right? At the onset of that company, they might have been handloaders, and they might have produced a cartridge that ran 900 to a thousand feet per second out of Sam's revolver delivering good accuracy, penetration, and terminal performance. Proper bullet fit (in 45 Colt especially) isn't easy with normal cylinders. Using mid-nineteenth century technology makes this problem only a memory on today's world. Original 45 Colt ammo used soft lead bullets and blackpowder. The bullets slugged up to fit everything got 900 to nearly 1,000 FPS and surprisingly good accuracy especially considering the sights back then. Terminal performance was good. We are now getting close to mid-twentieth century, we have computer controlled machinery capable of incredibly tight tolerances. We have alloys capable of things never dreamed of in Sam Colt's day. We have bullet lubes and coatings that can handle rifle velocities without leading the bore. And an incredible array of canister powders as well as the custom blends available to ammunition companies. All of this and we can't even equal what was widely available to everyone in 1873, and in many ways much earlier than that but with other firearms.
@@miketyke9451 The only issue with any of that is that I also have a S&W Governor, and the micrometer reveals that the cylinder throats of the revolver are proper sized- .452 inches- they're just longer than normal throats, and in fact, the 410 rounds actually taper a bit in order to fit into the chambers. The only low velocities Sam has gotten were with 45 ACP, which is understandable as they don't have the same case diameter (.480 for 45 Colt, and I believe .473 for 45 ACP, and this lowers pressure, except for in non brass cases, or nickel plated brass) nor do the bullets immediately snug into the cylinder throats, which causes blow-by. In every test Sam has done with 45 Colt, he's gotten velocities on par with, or exceeding, 4 inch barrels.
That was interesting. Talk about some nasty expansion! Thanks for sharing and take care.
Take care
Good show,you are showing a huge variety of the great ammo that is out there in all your videos .The entry wound on those would cause massive hemorrhage.
Unless you are a 500lb beast.
Wish you had FMJ then. 😁
@@jaypee389 you are 50 times more likely in the USA to be be killed by a domestic dog than by a Bear or Cougar the two main predators everyone fears so much.
This should be the only round you should ever put in a judge if you carried it. Maybe 3 of them, and 3 home defense 410. Shake and bake.
I have some Buffalo Bore Gold Dot's to test, also ran some hard cast Wadcutters. Decent loads
Dynamic & dramatic expansion for sure. Is it a complete failure for personal protection? I am not sure. Therefore, I could not trust my life or the lives of others with it based on this test. But I wouldn't want to be hit with this brutal bullet for sure. Nasty.
I have the 45 Colt Maximum Expansion for my Judge. I never shot any of it as it is pretty pricy. I usually just use the 3" 000 buck.
Staying with my Beretta storm. 9 mm. Critical duty.
Happy New Year. Keep the good videos coming
Same to you
I like what both rounds did. And great proof info. Thanks and have a great night. 🌛
Thank you
An argument for pattern loading. this round alternating with a deeper penetration round
Wish you did some water jug tests along with the clear gel. It would be cool seeing the difference between the two. Plus seeing how the different rounds vary when destroying the first and 2nd jug is pretty cool to gauge the power differences between rounds. Something which isn't always as easily understood from just the gel. Either way, love watching these videos.
I reload more ammunition rifle/pistol ammunition than the average shooter could possibly shooter. Ever shoot in many life times , a designer of special purpose ammunition, and let me tell you what, iam hard to impress with self defense ammunition because of so many factory clames and equil amounts of hp failed , this is the most awesome self defense ammunition I have ever seen, second to none, the shock, massive blood loss , expansion , retaining weight , I want to try some on a couple of pork roasts ,there are house's all around me and definitely not worry about over penitration , if it hit a lung ,liver heart and stayed together just tramma of blood loss would be all that's needed ,I am going to get some and see what it will do,, it sure gets my papa wow,wow,wow vote ,I guess you can tell iam excited about this ammunition, the very best video you sir have ever made in my opinion, nanna and papa wishing you well, wow
Seems pretty good. After reloading for 7 years I finally got a .44 spl/mag die set lol. Got some 180 XTP's , had some Federal lg mag primers for a year. Got some Universal, 110 and Enforcer. I'll figure something out.
Great video! Crazy rounds that would make serious damage! I'd love to see a comparison test between the Buffalo Bore 45 Colt Wadcutter and the Underwood ammo 45 colt Wadcutter! I feel like these would be mean rounds that would cause serious damage. Also would be interesting the see what type of velocity and energy we'd get with the S&W Governor with those rounds!
Thank you. Not sure how I missed this one
That 45 round with accurate shot placement, would be deadly. IMHO.
Thanks ,GS I have a Taurus Judge so another option.
Video was JUST what I was looking for! You think of everything :)
Thanks Sam, I appreciate all your ammo testing. I keep seeing comments where people are talking as if 6" of jell penetration is the same as 6" of penetration in human tissue. It is my understanding that they are not the same . What is your understanding of jell penetration compared to human penetration with a bullet.
Hmm ... maybe useful if in a very, very crowded environment (theatre, or such). Sucky as duty ammo, but I'd bet most citizen SD shootings are straight on. At least if you got it in the thoracic cavity, with that huge expansion, you're taking out a rib or maybe two. That makes breathing and moving a bit dicey for the bad guy. Now, back in the '80s, we'd have said this was PERFECT ... you know ... before the FBI tests and such.
Yeah lol, Silvetip and almost Black Talon days.
those solid copper rounds seem to hold weight well
Looks like a lot of fun!
Yeah, one of those day a week ago. You know how it is, deceptively cold looking but no wind and some moist air. Pleasant day to film.
I might trust it for Squirrel hunting.
I agree Sam...this round is going to catch the uninformed shooter like a new flashy fishing lure catches fishermen....wholly inadequate.
Inadequate?.....That 45LC MaxEx is likely to knock somebody off their feet, or disable them, which is the point.
Name any "adequate' round you want, I'll show examples where the threat was not stopped.
Wow, impressive, but not sure what to use it for. Can't imagine what a jury would say after a prosecutor took someone to task! Good review Sam.
Was lethal force justified yes or no? If yes, ammunition choice is a moot point and has not played a factor in the verdict in any self defense case. Ever.
@@supercomp65 This ammunition is cruel to the side being shot to the point of being a devil's ammunition, but I thought there was no better self-defense ammunition.
Thanks for that review. My buddy has a S&W Model 25 Mountain Gun in ,45Colt that is one of his favorites... but this isn't the round for it.
I was looking to buy one .. the price keeps going up they are rare & So Cool !! I have the same gun in 44 Special , love it !!
This seems decent for killing varmints like raccoon or coyote, but the penetration is lacking for self defense. Now would these actually penetrate more at 50 yards? The reason being lowered velocity causes less rapid expansion.
I'm guessing that 45 colt gets stuck in the board no more than 3-4 inches
Edit. I won't spoil your awesome video
Well, it did do as advertised! I think the pain and tissue damage would stop a non-inebriated attacker no problem, however not sure of this round is lethal enough against a hyped-up maniac.
It would be sweet to see you compare black powder 45 colt to smokeless powder loads.
I’ve loaded a few Hunters supply pentagon hollow points with black powder in my .45 colt, they hit extremely hard and expand really well. It’s been a bit since I’ve measured them, but I believe they expanded to around .690, with some outliers at .710.
Would like to get a box for my governor. Nice video, thank you for another interesting test.
I have no idea what to make of this one. The expansion is very impressive, but will it go deep enough to do anything? I don't think a 1oz Foster slug will expand that much from a 12 gauge shotgun. But I'm sure it will go in deeper!
ShootingTheBull410 did some tests on this, and his results mimic mine. In a 6 1/2 inch barrel on the Raging Judge Magnum or even a regular Judge, it hits about the 11 inch mark in gel. It expands easily and consistently to double the original diameter or very closely to it. I've fired it out of the Rossi Circuit Judge with it's longer barrel for some extra velocity and found it stops around 15 inches in gel with the petals peeling back a little from the extra velocity on it.
To be fair, a 12 gauge slug is already about the same diameter as this round is fully expanded, so it will reach broader lengths potentially. But, slugs in close range situations like that can also easily over penetrate and that has been shown many times. I think the Maximum Expansion loads are interesting and I certainly wouldn't feel under gunned even with shallow penetration in the 6 1/2 inch barrel but it's truly not my first choice of a .45 Colt or .410 load.
@@Predalien195 the winchester slug expansion is huge, turns into a lead donut, and doesn't go too deep at all.
@@mblake0420 Maybe in gel but people aren't gel. You should see what happens to people shot with slugs at close range, they tend to over penetrate. Even in several gel tests they have done so.
Doesn't detract from the overall points though. In terms of expansion a 12 gauge is going to be larger potentially and the Maximum Expansion will penetrate less.
@@Predalien195 I've shot plenty of deer, besides bone they do the exact same thing as the gel I've found. Not sure where you get your evidence from but I load my own and test constantly.
@@mblake0420 There's plenty of video evidence as well as evidence recorded in self defense shootings. Deer aren't people.
WOW! Impressive results. Stay warm out there! :-)
I'm not sure how to feel about these rounds. They definitely expand like no other but especially with the 45 colt, there's no way a center mass shot is going to miss ribs and how is it going to act hitting actual bone. I like that you put MDF in your tests but it's not the same density as bone. Will the round deform and not open? Would it cause a petal to sheer and tumble?....... In the end I guess it is still far better than a sharp stick though ain't it?
Will it work in say a henry rifle chambered in 45lc.
Thanks the video was very helpful, the quarter inch board test for revolver. I just purchased a Mag. Research. BFR 45 410 recently and ready to test those ninja stars
I’ll have to try these - if I can find them. Gotta a new Governor last week and tried both Federal Personal Defense 000 and Hornady Triple Defense .410 shotshells. They both look like good loads, but the problem is getting the spent shotshells out of the cylinder! Many times the ejector rod wont budge and I have to use a cleaning rod to push them out of the cylinder chambers. I did clean the chambers using Hoppes but it still does it. Maybe they’re using cheaper brass these days??
Can you test the same round out of a Taurus Judge six and a half inch barrel
Lol i think ill get some of the 45 colt. For my bond arms. Wonder howd it perform out of a 6 inch with no cylinder gap.
Very good videos as always keep up the amazing work very impressive expanding round but rather sad it doesn't penetrate more
Hey Sam ,, can you test a buffalo bore 32 H&R Magnum bullet vs a 327 federal magnum in hydra - Shok low recoil in a Ruger LCR ,, just want to know which one is more effective for self defense , thank you .
Not in one video, as I already tested them separately. BB czcams.com/video/nYdHRWu6aTQ/video.html Hydra czcams.com/video/l3dq5xBsEOM/video.html
What the What ?? I'm an old lead head I like my copper wrapped around trust worthy lead
Yeah lol. I'd even take copper wrapped in lead. Friction reduced, hard center
I just realized I have reached that 35K
@@GunSam I knew it would be faster than 2 weeks !! Great Job !!! Many Thanks to all the new SUBs !!
Don't miss!
I wonder how that .45lc would do in a .410ga revolver shotty. 🎩🧐🤔
even if it's a shallow penetration it looks like it will tear up what is in the path ...
My goal is to push that round 1400 fps out of a 460 rowland.
I have always been disappointed that people don't go flying when they get shot...like in the movies.
This just might make my dream a reality.
👍🙂 now that’s expansion🤪.
It would be interesting to see what one of those Maximum expansion round would do loaded in a 454 Casual or 460.
Might be interesting. But I already can guess that the petals would peel back or break off and go deep
@@GunSam I figured it might turn into an extreme version of the G2 RIP. RIP isn't a good choice in 9mm, but out of a 460 it might open up a black hole.
What a wild .45 round. The Judge doesn’t appeal to me, but I enjoyed the video.
Probably fire in a .45 70 rifle too? Maybe a .410 shotgun but that would be considered a dangerous thing to do.
Ouch that's gonna hurt to catch
I know these don't penetrate deep, but the shock and energy of this expanding is going to stop threat. A gut shot with this ammo would be lethal I would think.
Idk how hard this would be; but you set up the first board of MDF to be at the depth of ribs or sternum. Could you also set up a second board of MDF in the back of the gel to represent back ribs or spine? Maybe just put it between the two 16 inch gel blocks or something to make it easier.
Considering that I believe 10% Clear Ballistics is about half as dense as flesh, I figured 3" is 1.5" in a body. Figured that would do well. At 18" this is about 9" of flesh. Sure 19" would be at the end of the block, I have debated it but wasn't sure it would yield much info. Reason is I thin 95% of all bullets would stop against it.
Fair point 👍
Question:
Will a warm barrel increase velocity?
Gotta check their website and see which calibers are available using these bullets. 10mm, .357 magnum and .44 magnum should achieve more penetration. Thank you for this presentation.
I'm pretty sure it's just 9mm, .40, .45 .38 Special. There might be more, I don't recall a .44 Mag
Anyone getting hit anywhere would quickly start evaluating their life choices. Whether it was just few minutes (shock, trauma, etc.) or should they not die, the next number of decades sitting in prison.
Them things ain't worth taking home but that's just me good video
Have it in black
I would LOVE to see them on a meat target
Would it fit in a bond arms Derringer?
You can’t have good penetration with that much expansion, so the expansion is actually detrimental to a good self defense. Also, the wound tracks did not appear to be spirals like smaller and more numerous petals will give you (propeller). I see no point to this ammo as designed.
Have you ever considered testing things like the Glaser Safety Slug?
Yes, but when I ordered they never sent the ammo. Was in stock, waited 6 months then finally cancelled order.
@@GunSam in a sense it's like testing a Model T but in it's time ...
I would not want to get hit with either one of those
they need to load those .40 bullets in 10mm
100% one shot stops on rabbits
It doesn't go out the other side & go places you don't want
Just about any torso shot with the .45 becomes fatal.
Obviously this or a 9" Bowie knife in the chest won't do anything,
The average person's chest organs and high pressure blood vessels are starting well within 4" past the soft parts of skin and light muscle and fat
i'm not exactly sure what you are saying, unless you believe that gel is a 1/1 representation of tissue.
groinshot rounds.
339 fpe from a .40? Wtf kind of bs is that lol…😂
You do the most unfair comparisons.
The only rounds id suggest for taking legs and arms out imagine a 1.5inch cross blowing out your leg or arm your not using those anymore