15. Avoiding the 7th Harmonic
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- čas přidán 5. 08. 2024
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The 7th harmonic is a min7th that’s a little bit too flat. The total sound of a string is the sum all of the harmonics present. If the 7th overtone is present, and it’s played with other notes from the scale (especially the min7th) it’ll sound really dissonant and out-of-tune. And for this reason we tend to try to avoid the 7th harmonic.
Plucking the string near one of its ends will create lots of high overtones, which is why the string sound twangy. Plucking the string near the middle will create lots of low overtones, which is why the string sound bassy. Plucking the string 1/7th of the way down the string will create a nice balance of both high and low overtones. And, as you may have guessed, this has the added benefit of eliminating the 7th harmonic because this is exactly where one of its nodes would be. So plucking the string 1/7th from the end means the 7th harmonic will not be present in the note and you will remove that dissonant overtone. That’s why you’ll find that the hammers in a piano are generally located near a node of the 7th overtone.
You mean avoid the 7th harmonic so as it doesn't clash with the equal tempered 7th? It's that that's dissonant not the harmonic. Even the 11th is more an assonance than a dissonance - sounds great in some contexts
You might as well say: pi is a three that is a little too high ;-). The seventh harmonic is fine just like it is and is used to great effect in barbershop quartets, blues, etc
True. I meant in relation to our current Equal Temperament Tuning. But I'll try cover that in future vids.
@@WalkThatBass Is a temparement entirely based on the harmonics possible ? Just Intonation ratios start diverging with the harmonics at the 7th harmonic. Also the 11th harmonic seems to be an ruthless divider…
The barbershop music have notes played close to one another. The full expand of the 7th harmonic goes over 3 octaves is where the problem comes. I think Chopin's common upper technique more likely runs into the problem.
@@alexczh strictly speaking that wouldn't be a temperament. You describe just intonation, which is basically ideal in the philosophical sense. The problem being that you arrive at a theoretically infinite number of notes, including several shades of the same note that pile up very quickly. A temperament is any tuning system that makes do with compromises between those notes, sacrificing "accuracy" for practical utility.
Still some musicians see these various shades as a feature rather than a bug and avoid temperament altogether.
@@WalkThatBass Measuring dissonance of harmonics with 12EDO is the wrong order of how things should be done. You should measure 12EDO with how good its approximations of the harmonic series are, not the other way around.
I didn't know it was possible to learn so much in just three minutes. Thanks for these videos man, we really appreciate it.
No worries, Marcelo. Thanks for the comment.
These videos are so great! How the overtone series works and harmonics work has always been a massive grey area for me.
This information is so enlightening! Keep doing these videos forever!!!!
Thanks, David. Yeah, I think it's interesting, at least. Not sure how many other people do.
I find it very very interesting! I just went through the whole series over a few days and now I feel like I actually understand mathematically what is going on. Thank you so so so much for your work. Please keep making more videos!
On a tangent, the most confusing part of the video for me was realizing what people have been callings 5ths and 3rds are actually rations of 1.5 and 1.25 or 3/2 and 5/4. It almost makes more sense if they were called halves and quarters since that is the degree the referenced lower note has been risen.
I just binged this entire playlist of how music works and I've rarely felt so enlightened!
Hey y'all, quit hating on this video, please. The harmonic seventh chord is the main reason I use 31TET so of couse I love the 7th harmonic. This video makes some comments that seem incendiary to microtonalists, but keep in mind that the majority of Walk That Bass' viewers are 12TET musicians, so the advice in this video applies very well for most of the viewers.
Applies as the falsehood
"Oh it's dissonant because it's not well approximated in 12EDO." is a very bad argument, it's incoherent.
I, too, was offended on behalf of the 7th harmonic, but from reading all these comments I can see why some people think we're insufferable
Just discovered your channel. It's really helping me understand harmonics better. Thank you!
Amazing videos, amazing teacher. Thank you very much!
The sweet spot in the bass it's also there.
Thank you for all your educational videos
A good idea will be to put these into a playlist
Pleease do more of these going a bit more in depth. I love them so so much ❤️❤️
I have a better idea: let's retune to Just 7-limit tuning or use the 43rd note in 53TET. 53TET ftw
Or the 323th note in 665TET tuning
Or Carlos Gamma, a better alternative imo to 53TET. In only 36 notes it approximates all the important ratios just as good as 53 tet. Only tradeoff is that the octave is slightly out of tune, but who likes the octave anyway >:)
I like the octave
@@eufalesio1146 cool
This was a great video I learn so much new things thank you very much.
really really nice series. Thanks!
quality content mate. really looking forward to next video
Thanks, Sean. Haven't made the next ones yet, but it's on my to do list (Y)
@@WalkThatBass still waiting for more quality content
Strongly disagree on this, the equal temperament system is out of tune, the flat seventh is sharp and the seventh overtone is in tune
12 tet gets all its intervals as in tune as possible to the harmonic series by knocking all its notes slightly out of tune, its a great system but its limited. The harmonic 7th can sound really good in chords and it will make major and minor chords have a more stable sound which is cool. But these chords wont sound bright
@@androiduser603 nope, major thirds are very much out of tune and the 7th harmonic is the origin of 7 limit harmony
@@AlgyCuber then why are you learning any other theory because you are saying something that is extremely absurd.
@@frfrchopin yeah but if they where to select another tunning with good 3RDS other intervals like the 5th and 6th are knocked to far out of tune. The Best equal temperment would be 53 tone but that's to hard to play on most insturments
@@androiduser603 depends on how much you care about the fifth, and I think 6ths are not out of tune when tuning the 3rds to be good. I suggest you to maybe look in other types of tunings since 12EDO is only good for prime numbers 3 and 19 pythagorean stuff.
Having a Fourier analysis final tomorrow, this was very interesting!
That's so interesting! Very nice to know; will store that in the memory bank.
These videos are great!! Thanks for the great videos!!
No worries :)
beautiful, just beautiful
great series wtb! very interesting insights
Yeah, I think still stuff is interesting. Don't know how many other people do. Thanks for the comment :)
I never knew about this fact of the seventh harmonic. Really good video!
No no no don't avoid it. It's a consonance. The fact that it is considered more dissonant than the 9th harmonic just because it is not well approximated by 12EDO is very absurd
I didn't know that. Thanks!
It’s not the seventh harmonic (7/4) that is flat. It is the equally tempered and just intimated sevenths that are sharp.
can you make a video on tuning systems, equal temperament, just intonation, etc.
Insanely interesting
Bruh. 7th harmonic is my favorite
Lol. Excellent.
Very nice.
The 7th harmonic isn't flat. The minor seventh is sharp.
On shorter strings though, it looks as if a few millimetres off might knock out the sixth instead!
your channel is awesome
Thanks, mate. Glad you like it.
first time I see modal jazz explained so good
Do you have any book or resource recommendations? I've been reading a lot over the past year and I've never heard anything about this, super informative.
I really like 'The Physics of Sound' by Richard Berg & David Stork.
It's quite a detailed and in depth textbook and goes into some interesting detail about how individual instruments actually function. As well as covering acoustic fundamentals and temperament.
@@WalkThatBass Would you also have additionnal recommendation more centered on the harmonics ?
@@alexczh Here from 5 years in the future to recommend "The Harmonic Experience" by W.A. Mathieu
Interesting.
This videos is too 12EDO centralized
People like you are ruining harmony. There are multiple ratios for minor seventh ). 4:5:6:7 is a pure 7th chord and 10:12:15:18 is a pure m7th chord. So don't try to temper stuff or otherwise don't even touch just intonation
poor little 7th harmonic :(
The "1/7th-string-lenght" thing only works for instruments that have strings-per-pitch (pianos, harps, zithers, etc.). In lute-like instruments (such as guitar, bass or mandolin), this "OCD" technique is just impractical and, in 99,9% of cases, non-sense.
Piece of cake, so every time you play a note, just measure that note, then divide it by 7 and then measure 1/7th to where you pick while you are improvising playing a flurry of 32nd notes on one string in tone rows. No problem! Why didn't I think of that?
Don't tell me what to do!