8B+ Boulderer VS 8c Lead Climber: 8a Route COMPARISON
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- čas přidán 13. 04. 2018
- Comparative Analysis focusing on Climbing Style and Problem Solving of two Specialists in different Disciplines of the Climbing Sport.
It was very interesting and a very fun time making this video, let me know via some opinions and likes if you've got something from it too!
Special thanks go to belayer and camera man, whose extra efforts made these shots possible! Thanks for watching, and I'll see you soon in the next one!
8B+ Boulderer VS 8c Lead Climber on 8a Route | COMPARISON by Mani the Monkey
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"I've already climbed it a couple of times for training purposes" -Mani
Mani has projected the route and already figured out his most efficient sequence, while the other climber hadn't. I think the video shows less of the different styles and more of the difference between a rp attempt after many goes and a flash/os/1-3 attempt.
it was Thomas second go of the day, after having it checked out some weeks before. Mani has already climbed it a couple of times. But i think the comparison is interesting and we can learn something from it.
@Marcus I totally agree. This was a horrible example of a strong boulderer vs an above average route climber. The sequences were hardly different, and you could argue either one was better.
Big move off a right hand gaston vs big move off a left hand gaston.
Longer move to skip a bad crimp vs smaller moves off worse holds.
Toeing on vs heelhooking.
If this was a school paper, I'd give it a solid D.
jlehm this is a very strange comment because you say you totally agree with Marcus but you are actually saying something very different. Marcus said if i understood him correctly that the main difference is how "dialed" they have the route, and he definitely is right as i pointed out. You are saying Mani is exaggerating the difference in the sequence. But from the very few moves that make this route, i find only one tiny sequence that they do the same way - the move to the slot and the clipping! everything else is different in some way. And by the way, have you ever climbed this route, that you know so well how hard each move is? And then there are other points apart from difference in sequence, like breathing, flow... so if your comment was a school paper, what would you give it?
and yes my opinion is biased, because i know that Mani puts a lot of effort into his vids, free for us and with little reward for himself, so bitchy comments like "If this was a school paper, I'd give it a solid D" really show a miserable spirit.
+Chirs Vale "free for us and with little reward for himself" You do realize that this channel made it possible for him to live his dream, right? Free from a 9 to 5 job? You call that little reward? Strange perspective. I guess if one doesn't become a millionaire the reward is "little". The free for us perspective is equally strange because it costs our limited lifetime. "show a miserable spirit." And you show blind fanboyism. :)
As soon as you stated that you know the route quite well, the whole comparison gets lost. Try a side by side where neither of you have already climbed!
Really cool to see how different style climbers work out a problem. Your explanations on the moves and why they do and don't work was very informative.
I really noticed some big differences in the movements between you and Thomas, and the breathing was critical! I think that, if Thomas had been able to breathe better, he may have been able to send that route, actually. What I notice is that, with the pump comes that fast, uncontrolled breathing if you're not careful, and the breathing can make all the difference in sending or not sending a route! Great video, Mani! Thank you, Thomas, for the comparison!
Chris Jones if he's bigger with more muscle mass then he'll require more oxygen to feed those muscles which means heart taste increases and heavier breathing. There could also be a significant difference in stamina /cardio /fitness levels, you'd expect climbers be better than boulderers in that department. One reason why boulderers go for the quickest and not necessarily the easiest solution
Your videos are awesome!!! I love seeing comparisons like this
I like the vid. Thanks for making these short videos on natural rock
glad i found your videos, very good format
Great Video and comparison. It is interesting to see how much style and flow change the difficulty on a climb. Especially for Thomas in regards he is a strong boulderer and capable of doing every move but not finding the best solution and using to much strenght to get further, resulting in falling off because of to much pump. Fair to say its impressiv that ge got that far not knowing the right beta and lacking the experience of sport route climbing. I highly like those video but i know its not possible to produce them regularly because of the high effort needed to shoot one of these. Still iam looking forward for more content like this :)
Thanks for the input, I'll try my best get keep them coming!
What a beast mani!
great comparison!
It helps a lot! I can see two climbing style at the time, good for beginners
Great comparison
Great Vid and analysis! at the start Thomas was almost losing the chalk bag and had to fix it... not ideal! also it was cold which might also explain the shakeout at the start. The difference in breathing hearing it live was even more instructive, you were going like a intense locomotive train, Thomas was super quiet
Very interesting and very close to my home. It's hard to ignore the competitive aspect of this comparison, so ideally both climbers would be attempting to flash it or have similar prior knowledge.
Nice video! How did that sketchy heelhock felt? Looks like made you use less energy in the forearms, same with the clipping position so you weren't as pumped as he was
I some times joke my main strength is my weakness, as i'm forced find more efficient or "gypsy" beta to get around hard sequences.
Great vid.
As a boulderer I find myself having trouble with longer routes because bouldering puts the focus on short bursts of energy on a few moves, in longer routes you have to conserve energy especially when leading and you need good placement for clipping, as a boulderer on smal problems you can get away with much more risky moves.
Actually I think the comparison is a bit manky because both are very different disciplines
Thanks Mani, great film, really informative, please keep making these!
I thing to remember : take off your shirt !
Jara 22 you liked that huh.
The first difference you see.... is that Mani is not wearing a shirt! Ahahah.
But seriously, awesome video! Very cool to see how you had different sequences and solutions.
One major issue i have with this is that you say you've climbed it numerous times, and we don't know if it's his on-sight attempt, or 100th time on the crag..
wirklich gutes Video
Interesting Question would be: What is your size difference? Actually i liked the boulderes solution in the beginning a tad more. He doesn't need the hand switch in the jug. After the clip, his position is way more relaxed, while you are under tension. After that, it is mixed as well, your heel hook is way better, but stepping over to get the left hand up is a nice solution instead of just using raw power and a high foot.
The boulderer seemed confused during the last moves where to put his foot.
nevertheless, thank you for this comparision :) it is interesting to see different betas.
Nicely observed, we are almost exactly the same size.
Ah. ok. I watched the upper part again and noticed for the clip, where he is using a high foot, your solution is much cleaner just stepping down on something and he is using the "small people solution", which takes much more energy for a tall person :D So ... from my perspective, using a mix of both styles seems like an obvious choice, if i have ever the pleasure of trying it. (still working at 7a/7b....so not happening any time soon unfortunatly). keep on rocking :)
7:38 All study seems to point in that direction, yes.
A dialed vs non dialed comparison (a climber sure of the dynamics of every move will not overgrip to compensate for uncertanieties. Here harder beta is used as well)
How long did it take you to climb 7a?
Are you both on an onsight attempt?
I suggest the boulderer relied on his strength and thus didn't think about his technique. In addition, he, if he's not leading on a regular basis, might be more afraid of falling. Which would explain the big moves to big holds and using big good footholds rather than small ones which would allow for a better positioning of the body.
Consequently I think that climbing speed is not of the essence here but the fear of falling in connection to dealing with pumped forearms..
bel video go job
mani, do you think running/cardio is good for climbing if you want to get leaner and lighter?
yes, I think especially running is a very good tool to empty your legs and become super light for a given day to send a project for example.
Mani the Monkey thank you! but in terms of fat loss it's not so important?
I think the big difference is how long he spent shaking out.
This video compares oranges to apples.
From narrator's comments and the way boulderer guy is climbing (searching for holds, pre-clipping the bolt and going back to rest a little bit) I get that this is his first attempt on a route? Of course his way of climbing the route will be different, he is just trying to get through the thing in any way he feels possible. While the second guy had already tried it multiple times (even) for training purposes meaning he figured out the most efficient way to climb it. Even there is a point in a video narrator says "See, I didn't pre - clip the bolt to go back down, because I know there is a better way to clip it", while the first guy didn't know that and he tried to do what seemed reasonable.
He tried the route a couple of times in previous weeks and this was my 2nd go of that day after having not touched it in half a year, but I already climbed the route for the first time years ago.So you are right, we didn't have the same level of knowledge about the route. However it is not as incomparable as it might seem at least in my opinion.
Glaubst du, dass ich die Route schaffen würde? Ich klettere 7a+ und bouldere 7b.....
Das ist auch ein Unterschied zwischen dem muskelbepackten Thomas und dem extrem sehnigen Mani. Das Extra- Gewicht eines T-shirts stört beim Thomas eher nicht.
What is the scientific reason one can't give 100% with a shirt on, Mani?
weight difference, shirt getting in the way of chalking, psych
fiendophobia.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/climbers-with-tops-off-at-indoors-wall.html
Jumping to conclusions from just one example...
8b+ boulder ~ 9a lead level
terry tang
I think, 8b+ would result in > 9a ...
It's a lot more complex than this :)
Mani the Monkey
Agree!
But taking „only“ demand for max power and technical abilty into account ... skipping all the other stuff like endurance, tactis and so on, what do you think?
Pretty accurate if the sport route is just a boulder problem. Example : "The fly" V14/5.14d czcams.com/video/cftiJB6-uYY/video.html