10:11 That is called Right Thrust to compensate for motor torque caused by the spinning propeller. It is engineered like that and is normal. In a pusher mounted plane the motor is angled to the left using a standard pitch prop. In a tractor mounted plane the motor is angled to the right using a standard pitch prop. That is all looking from the rear of the plane looking forward. Have a look at the Bixtler pics on HK. 13:27 Yes.. that's the way to do it.
lasersbee ok can you Please! Give me your honest answer to this question. Is the motor supposed to be offset to the right or not?? I have asked everywhere even the mini talon Facebook group and some say no it is supposed to be inline with fuselage and others say it’s supposed to have an offset to right. My Mini talon was a PNP version I purchased from RMRC and I’m stuck with this motor thing. Also I don’t own a servo tester and want to no is one really needed to check servo is centered? I’ve been told PNP version already has servo setup so no need or is this also an illusion. Lol.
I now have three. All using apm. One with 2.4 / 5.8 one with crossfire / 2.4 and one with dragonlink 433 and 1.3. They have spoiled me. I was almost upset because after flying these I really couldn't imagine flying another plane. My bix3, my volantex ranger, my fx-61, my dozen other fpv planes now sit. Best battery combo is the 4s5200 multistar or for really long range you can step up to the 4s6600 multistar (Been 28K out and then back with this). I have flown the 4s8000 and its a bit of a porker. I think its borderline loosing efficiency with its weight for this airframe. After much testing my motor of choice is the cobra 2217 / 960kv with a apc 9x6E. Very efficient.
Maidened one of these a few months ago with a pixhawk in it. Awesome platform. after an auto tune it is extremely stable and a quite fast but efficient wing good luck with it. I would recommend some sort of RTL function as this thing covers ground :) Awesome FPV platform, I am going to 3D printout a front chin and vertical tail fin/skid for it as these areas are high wear. Next upgrade will be installation of a pitot tube
Hi , nice vid and maiden flight , I have same model (not finished yet ) it is a quick plane OMG . I have a vector in mine .Matt had some problems with iNav in his wing setup . Did you not want to glue the wings in ? Anyway good luck with the mods .
Cut and solder the lead for the battery. Every adapter makes an extra failure point. And yes, a little bit of thrust angle helps with trimming single engine airplane.
Yes, I'm considering doing that. I'll see how it feels when it gets here, some of these plugs can be really tight. I'd also like to use that battery on a multi-rotor which may pull more than 60 amps occasionally, so for that it would be handy to have the XT90 still ready to use.
Yes, it's in the mail. I wanted to try the maiden with the smaller batteries first, just in case it didn't go as well as it did, there would be less damage...
Great overview of this plane sir :) Thanks for that.. indeed an interesting one.. I'd be interested to see how manny amps it will actually draw.. Weird mixup on the motor :| What propsize did you end up using?
Probably not - this weighed 1.4kg just with this little test battery and nose weight. With the battery I intend to use it will be a bit over 1.5kg without any cameras or other stuff. I don't think the wingtips would handle that very well.
I don't think I checked on the lipo temperature, sorry. The wings are quite close to the rear of the plane, so using flaperons would require a lot of compensation from the elevator to keep the pitch level. I saw a CZcams video where a guy spent quite a while and some near-crashes trying to get it right, so I thought I would just use it as is :)
Hi Chris I've been hovering over the buy button. Is the mini talon a plane that you would buy today if you didn't have one. I already have a C1 chaser but I'm getting the urge for a pan and tilt and feel a talon would be more suitable.
Depends what you want it for I guess, but for general FPV with good flight times and carrying capacity, and decent durability at a reasonable price the mini Talon is hard to beat. Of all my planes I think I've clocked up the most hours on my MT, partially thanks to the fact that you can buy spare wings and tail surfaces so even after a crash that might consign something else to the dustbin you can get it looking mostly brand new again.
this may be a newb dumb ass question...but I'm researching to possibly get into rc stuff before I start buying crap I don't need or can't use..nevertheless..question is, how did you build that contraption to measure the thrust of the motors and the measuring graphing output? thank you in advance for your possible answer and time.
Nice plane, nice video. Any plans for a VTOL plane? I dont have a field like that in my backyard, so I'm considering a better way to launch and land with little space.
Banggood and Gearbest most of the times don't handle issues very well. AliExpress has a lot more reliable shops(it's not a single shop, like the 3 previous mentioned ones.)
Doesn't torque induce roll? And even then only when motor speed is changing right? Aiming the motor to one side would add yaw but I don't see how it would counteract roll, and if it did, I can't see why pointing the motor say, left would be better than any other direction.
Check for "sidethrust in pusher planes". Sometimes you need it, sometimes you don´t, and it´s a dynamic thing and usually a compromise had to be found. Naturally the angle of direction is dependent on the direction the motor is running. With electric motors you can change it easily. On most planes roll means also flying a curve. And on some planes yaw also means rolling a bit and flying a curve, too. That is why a yaw sidethrust can counteract the roll. The Talon might be one of those planes, it seems to have the right architecture. However, on those chinese manufactured kits sidethrust might be a failure of production, or it might have been done on purpose. You never know.
+KaffiFlight I ain't no expert but aileron movement should counter momentary torque roll from changes in motor/prop rpm. But when propeller is mounted say above (to clear tail of pusher) or below (to see out over the engine) the cg (or Cd for a given speed) then part of the propeller disc has a larger angle of attack and produces more thrust on that side, so motor is angled to counteract this. IMO pusher models with prop directly on axis like the talon, most flying wings and twin boom designs don't implement any thrust angle offsets at all, at least not on purpose!!
C. Av Well, I think you did not understand exactly what I mean. Hm. But I guess I can´t explain here on CZcams. For example: I own a HK Skyfun. The Motor has no sidethrust. Zero degree to the vertical longitudinal plane - means either right or left. Just stick to that plane, not the horizontal one, that describes down or upthrust/pushing. That one is for something else. Cruising or flying fast, no matter, the Skyfun always tries to roll away from the motor torque. Yes, I can (and do) counteract this with some constant trimm on the ail (roll axis). Okay, but the plane shows some strange behaviour. It won´t fly level, it´s always tilted to one side. But it has to, or it would start flying a curve to the right when horizontal. Like a looong powerslide. In my case it´s tilted to the left. My motor turns to the right if you look from behind. Yes, there are obvious impulses while changing speed, but, there is also a constant force on it. I have several friends with a Skyfun and we all have the same problem. Turning the motor direction reverses that effect. We need to give the motor some sidethrust to counteract that. You don´t notice that with all planes, but it´s clearly to see at this one, since it flies pretty fast and very stable, as on a cord. You might see that if you watch my Sykfun chasing video.
Pretty sure your confusing motor angles and drag of the propeller. You could program your radio to counteract this with increasing opposite aileron in relation to throttle. Or try higher kv smaller prop (bigger prop = longer lever action), edf (counter rotating pair?) or just put a pulsejet on it like someone mentioned :-)
if the can is 34mm in diameter then the motor cant be a 35xx motor. i think its a 28xx motor like advertized and its labeled wrong. My 31xx motor barely fits.
google "iforce2d mini talon" czcams.com/video/7DhVQVrOFvk/video.html czcams.com/video/nR2BIS_JUoE/video.html czcams.com/video/-A2VtxbTYoU/video.html czcams.com/video/NTIJaADNudk/video.html
Doesn't torque induce roll? And even then only when motor speed is changing right? The crookedness would add yaw but I don't see how it would counteract roll.
Yes indeed, it ripped out and disappeared on the third landing. Then my home-made one (plywood) almost ripped out on the fourth landing. I'm getting the feeling that it's not such a smart idea. I also think it could do without the nose wheel and that square-ish bump that the wheel is in... I feel like cutting it right off with hot wire but it would weaken the nose a fair bit, I don't suppose you've tried that?
iforce2d howdy Fella, I've put a 6mm x 1mm carbon strip on mine in the end. was going to fibre glass it like I mentioned above, but looking at it, the carbon strip looked way better. I can a photo when I get home (about an hour). Matt
I was thinking about ordering ,this week ,but after I say this,I really don't think I want anything with so many imperfections for $125 .I hope the packing and product improve.I really like this,but $125 for so many defects is to much to pay . chuck
Not sure what you mean by 'so many' imperfections and 'so many' defects. Without watching through my whole video again I think missing prop was the main thing. There is a plane only (no electronics, no motor etc) for about $75 or so I think, which might be a better option if you already have the gear to go on it.
Neat but at $60+ per battery... I would think a plane of similar size like a mini skyhunter could give you the space and distance you need but on much cheaper batteries or li-ions?
It doesn't come with a battery, you can use whatever suits you. I don't see why a different plane would mean cheaper batteries, one way or another you need battery capacity to get flight time. As it happens I have been flying this plane a lot lately, my typical flight is 40 minutes and the battery (4S 8Ah) finishes at storage charge, so it could probably do twice that long. I don't have a mini-Skyhunter but I would expect it's similar efficiency, although with only 2/3 the wing area it might struggle with that much battery so overall I doubt it could fly for as long.
Maybe we are getting screwed on li-ion prices here in NZ, but a 3400mAh 18650 is about US$7.50 if you're lucky (and buy in bulk). I can't imagine making anything useful from just two cells... what $15 pack are you referring to? I haven't used li-ion so far because making up a pack is a pain in the butt, and I buy batteries to also use with multirotors which typically need more current capability.
@@iforce2d Well I guess they do cost a little more. I might have been thinking of cheaper cells for a 3s. And I think I understand now as far as weight vs flight time. I was confused before. I guess 60 ish isn't that bad for a 4s 4000 considering flight time.
It could mean many things. Maybe loose wiring. Maybe ESC overheated. Maybe motor overheated. Maybe you moved the throttle to zero.... but if you have a lipo alarm, you will know it wasn't the battery being over discharged right?
hey chris, have you checked out the Reptile S800 SKY SHADOW on banggood? looks pretty interesting www.banggood.com/S800-820mm-Wingspan-FPV-EPP-Flying-Wing-RC-Airplane-KIT-p-1108279.html?rmmds=category
I think you should give up flying and reviews... No idea what items are on a plane like rear skid, servo horns, cleats. and also the aerial are 90 degrees to each other. also as Laserbee said most planes specialy sports plane come with the motor at an agle to compensate for thrust... Useless review.. no how to check the CG....
10:11 That is called Right Thrust to compensate for motor torque caused by the spinning propeller. It is engineered like that and is normal.
In a pusher mounted plane the motor is angled to the left using a standard pitch prop.
In a tractor mounted plane the motor is angled to the right using a standard pitch prop.
That is all looking from the rear of the plane looking forward.
Have a look at the Bixtler pics on HK.
13:27 Yes.. that's the way to do it.
lasersbee ok can you Please! Give me your honest answer to this question. Is the motor supposed to be offset to the right or not?? I have asked everywhere even the mini talon Facebook group and some say no it is supposed to be inline with fuselage and others say it’s supposed to have an offset to right. My Mini talon was a PNP version I purchased from RMRC and I’m stuck with this motor thing. Also I don’t own a servo tester and want to no is one really needed to check servo is centered? I’ve been told PNP version already has servo setup so no need or is this also an illusion. Lol.
One of the most comprehensive reviews I've watched of this model. Please do more.
I now have three. All using apm. One with 2.4 / 5.8 one with crossfire / 2.4 and one with dragonlink 433 and 1.3. They have spoiled me. I was almost upset because after flying these I really couldn't imagine flying another plane. My bix3, my volantex ranger, my fx-61, my dozen other fpv planes now sit. Best battery combo is the 4s5200 multistar or for really long range you can step up to the 4s6600 multistar (Been 28K out and then back with this). I have flown the 4s8000 and its a bit of a porker. I think its borderline loosing efficiency with its weight for this airframe. After much testing my motor of choice is the cobra 2217 / 960kv with a apc 9x6E. Very efficient.
Maidened one of these a few months ago with a pixhawk in it. Awesome platform. after an auto tune it is extremely stable and a quite fast but efficient wing good luck with it. I would recommend some sort of RTL function as this thing covers ground :) Awesome FPV platform, I am going to 3D printout a front chin and vertical tail fin/skid for it as these areas are high wear. Next upgrade will be installation of a pitot tube
That's a nice idea where you decided to put the receiver antennae.
as far as i know the "crooked" motor mount is intentional, it's common practice that the motor be crooked to the right, which in your case is correct
Hi , nice vid and maiden flight , I have same model (not finished yet ) it is a quick plane OMG . I have a vector in mine .Matt had some problems with iNav in his wing setup . Did you not want to glue the wings in ? Anyway good luck with the mods .
the motor mount offset to to help with torque... keeps the wings level at high throttle
Cut and solder the lead for the battery. Every adapter makes an extra failure point.
And yes, a little bit of thrust angle helps with trimming single engine airplane.
Yes, I'm considering doing that. I'll see how it feels when it gets here, some of these plugs can be really tight. I'd also like to use that battery on a multi-rotor which may pull more than 60 amps occasionally, so for that it would be handy to have the XT90 still ready to use.
Well, get XT90 for a plane side of the lead too. It should not be that heavy for such a heavy lifter. (:
Yes, it's in the mail. I wanted to try the maiden with the smaller batteries first, just in case it didn't go as well as it did, there would be less damage...
I'm putting a pulsejet on mine :-)
Ahahaha and how did that go? :-D
I suppose theres video of this event?
Wheres the video Bruce ? lol
Great overview of this plane sir :) Thanks for that.. indeed an interesting one.. I'd be interested to see how manny amps it will actually draw.. Weird mixup on the motor :| What propsize did you end up using?
I used a 9x6 prop here.
Check :) You're not worried about the prop hitting your hand while launching the plane by the way?
Yes I was a little worried, that was part of why I was nervous about the maiden launch :)
I can imagine! I have the same 'problem' with the Xuav One :$ .. Would a wingtip / DLG-kinda launch work you think?
Probably not - this weighed 1.4kg just with this little test battery and nose weight. With the battery I intend to use it will be a bit over 1.5kg without any cameras or other stuff. I don't think the wingtips would handle that very well.
Did you get every thing you wanted? Like the motor and other electronics?
Was the lipo hot when you landed the second time ? Btw, would flap-mode help on landing this one ? Haven't flown in many years.
I don't think I checked on the lipo temperature, sorry. The wings are quite close to the rear of the plane, so using flaperons would require a lot of compensation from the elevator to keep the pitch level. I saw a CZcams video where a guy spent quite a while and some near-crashes trying to get it right, so I thought I would just use it as is :)
Is the Skyray, like Banggoods C-1 Chaser?
that battery tho - taped on :D
Hi Chris
I've been hovering over the buy button. Is the mini talon a plane that you would buy today if you didn't have one. I already have a C1 chaser but I'm getting the urge for a pan and tilt and feel a talon would be more suitable.
Depends what you want it for I guess, but for general FPV with good flight times and carrying capacity, and decent durability at a reasonable price the mini Talon is hard to beat. Of all my planes I think I've clocked up the most hours on my MT, partially thanks to the fact that you can buy spare wings and tail surfaces so even after a crash that might consign something else to the dustbin you can get it looking mostly brand new again.
this may be a newb dumb ass question...but I'm researching to possibly get into rc stuff before I start buying crap I don't need or can't use..nevertheless..question is, how did you build that contraption to measure the thrust of the motors and the measuring graphing output? thank you in advance for your possible answer and time.
If you only want to measure thrust you only need an arm and a scale. Check out Flitetest they made a video on how to do this.
czcams.com/video/PfVJmci9IQQ/video.html
iforce2d THANKS
Your a busy man
Nice plane, nice video. Any plans for a VTOL plane? I dont have a field like that in my backyard, so I'm considering a better way to launch and land with little space.
Actually I started making a weird VTOL thing but gave up half-way through when I realized it wouldn't work :D
iforce2d sad to read that. I'll give the pixhawk a try sometime, there are some videos showing successful flights but only a few about the build.
Banggood and Gearbest most of the times don't handle issues very well. AliExpress has a lot more reliable shops(it's not a single shop, like the 3 previous mentioned ones.)
Did you keep your motor in offset position or did you keep it straightened?? I’m having the same confusion
I straightened it. I don't think it makes much difference.
The thrust to the side in fact is needed to counter the torque of the motor. All motorplanes have that.
Doesn't torque induce roll? And even then only when motor speed is changing right? Aiming the motor to one side would add yaw but I don't see how it would counteract roll, and if it did, I can't see why pointing the motor say, left would be better than any other direction.
Check for "sidethrust in pusher planes". Sometimes you need it, sometimes you don´t, and it´s a dynamic thing and usually a compromise had to be found. Naturally the angle of direction is dependent on the direction the motor is running. With electric motors you can change it easily. On most planes roll means also flying a curve. And on some planes yaw also means rolling a bit and flying a curve, too. That is why a yaw sidethrust can counteract the roll. The Talon might be one of those planes, it seems to have the right architecture. However, on those chinese manufactured kits sidethrust might be a failure of production, or it might have been done on purpose. You never know.
+KaffiFlight I ain't no expert but aileron movement should counter momentary torque roll from changes in motor/prop rpm. But when propeller is mounted say above (to clear tail of pusher) or below (to see out over the engine) the cg (or Cd for a given speed) then part of the propeller disc has a larger angle of attack and produces more thrust on that side, so motor is angled to counteract this. IMO pusher models with prop directly on axis like the talon, most flying wings and twin boom designs don't implement any thrust angle offsets at all, at least not on purpose!!
C. Av
Well, I think you did not understand exactly what I mean. Hm. But I guess I can´t explain here on CZcams.
For example: I own a HK Skyfun. The Motor has no sidethrust. Zero degree to the vertical longitudinal plane - means either right or left. Just stick to that plane, not the horizontal one, that describes down or upthrust/pushing. That one is for something else.
Cruising or flying fast, no matter, the Skyfun always tries to roll away from the motor torque. Yes, I can (and do) counteract this with some constant trimm on the ail (roll axis). Okay, but the plane shows some strange behaviour. It won´t fly level, it´s always tilted to one side. But it has to, or it would start flying a curve to the right when horizontal. Like a looong powerslide. In my case it´s tilted to the left. My motor turns to the right if you look from behind. Yes, there are obvious impulses while changing speed, but, there is also a constant force on it. I have several friends with a Skyfun and we all have the same problem. Turning the motor direction reverses that effect. We need to give the motor some sidethrust to counteract that.
You don´t notice that with all planes, but it´s clearly to see at this one, since it flies pretty fast and very stable, as on a cord. You might see that if you watch my Sykfun chasing video.
Pretty sure your confusing motor angles and drag of the propeller. You could program your radio to counteract this with increasing opposite aileron in relation to throttle. Or try higher kv smaller prop (bigger prop = longer lever action), edf (counter rotating pair?) or just put a pulsejet on it like someone mentioned :-)
hi i was wondering what kind of flighttime i should be expecting on one of these?
Depends what battery you use and the total weight, eg. czcams.com/video/NTIJaADNudk/video.html
if the can is 34mm in diameter then the motor cant be a 35xx motor. i think its a 28xx motor like advertized and its labeled wrong. My 31xx motor barely fits.
Any updates to this video ? . . . Thanks for great review
google "iforce2d mini talon"
czcams.com/video/7DhVQVrOFvk/video.html
czcams.com/video/nR2BIS_JUoE/video.html
czcams.com/video/-A2VtxbTYoU/video.html
czcams.com/video/NTIJaADNudk/video.html
thanks for that ill have a look in a minute
Did that esc came with the wire cut?
The ESC is shown at 3:30 3:37 4:37 5:36 5:47
The crookedness is for countering the torque
On the motor
Yeah. my first thought too.
Doesn't torque induce roll? And even then only when motor speed is changing right? The crookedness would add yaw but I don't see how it would counteract roll.
iforce2d i think it's something to do with gyroscopic precession or something, on flite test planes they sometimes build it in
Ok theirs a flite test video on it, look up thrust angle
What was glue name again?
Howdy fella, that wooden piece on the tail, pull it off now before rips out. I've put some fibre glass on mine :)
Matthew Ogborne hi nice to see you here too.
Yeah I got the impression that it would have a pretty limited life-span too :)
Ernesto dí Terríbílé hahahhaa yea I love the channel :)
Yes indeed, it ripped out and disappeared on the third landing. Then my home-made one (plywood) almost ripped out on the fourth landing. I'm getting the feeling that it's not such a smart idea. I also think it could do without the nose wheel and that square-ish bump that the wheel is in... I feel like cutting it right off with hot wire but it would weaken the nose a fair bit, I don't suppose you've tried that?
iforce2d howdy Fella, I've put a 6mm x 1mm carbon strip on mine in the end. was going to fibre glass it like I mentioned above, but looking at it, the carbon strip looked way better. I can a photo when I get home (about an hour). Matt
I was thinking about ordering ,this week ,but after I say this,I really don't think I want anything with so many imperfections for $125 .I hope the packing and product improve.I really like this,but $125 for so many defects is to much to pay . chuck
Not sure what you mean by 'so many' imperfections and 'so many' defects. Without watching through my whole video again I think missing prop was the main thing. There is a plane only (no electronics, no motor etc) for about $75 or so I think, which might be a better option if you already have the gear to go on it.
can I use a 10" propeller in that plane?
yes
Neat but at $60+ per battery... I would think a plane of similar size like a mini skyhunter could give you the space and distance you need but on much cheaper batteries or li-ions?
It doesn't come with a battery, you can use whatever suits you. I don't see why a different plane would mean cheaper batteries, one way or another you need battery capacity to get flight time. As it happens I have been flying this plane a lot lately, my typical flight is 40 minutes and the battery (4S 8Ah) finishes at storage charge, so it could probably do twice that long. I don't have a mini-Skyhunter but I would expect it's similar efficiency, although with only 2/3 the wing area it might struggle with that much battery so overall I doubt it could fly for as long.
What I mean is like a mini talon, a 15 dollar diy li-ion is giving over an hour of flight time. Granted it is a smaller plane.
Maybe we are getting screwed on li-ion prices here in NZ, but a 3400mAh 18650 is about US$7.50 if you're lucky (and buy in bulk). I can't imagine making anything useful from just two cells... what $15 pack are you referring to? I haven't used li-ion so far because making up a pack is a pain in the butt, and I buy batteries to also use with multirotors which typically need more current capability.
@@iforce2d Well I guess they do cost a little more. I might have been thinking of cheaper cells for a 3s. And I think I understand now as far as weight vs flight time. I was confused before. I guess 60 ish isn't that bad for a 4s 4000 considering flight time.
How do i know when my battery dies?
Easy - the motor will stop.
But perhaps you could google "lipo battery alarm" :)
If my motor stop, does that mean my battery is over discharged?
It could mean many things. Maybe loose wiring. Maybe ESC overheated. Maybe motor overheated. Maybe you moved the throttle to zero.... but if you have a lipo alarm, you will know it wasn't the battery being over discharged right?
Would you buy in on your own?
At this stage I think I probably would. Give me some more time with it to make a proper review though :)
okzay
I think I'd want my $125 plane to be packaged a bit better Banggood...
hey chris, have you checked out the Reptile S800 SKY SHADOW on banggood? looks pretty interesting www.banggood.com/S800-820mm-Wingspan-FPV-EPP-Flying-Wing-RC-Airplane-KIT-p-1108279.html?rmmds=category
Yeah it sure does. I have one on the way.
thought it may have tickled your fancy
The Big Talon Looks Weird And Ugly
It is ugly
I think you should give up flying and reviews... No idea what items are on a plane like rear skid, servo horns, cleats. and also the aerial are 90 degrees to each other. also as Laserbee said most planes specialy sports plane come with the motor at an agle to compensate for thrust... Useless review.. no how to check the CG....