Team Juric - Lotus 25 Cyclekart Design - Part 1
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Welcome to Part 1 of the Team Juric Lotus 25 Cyclekart design series.
This three-part series will cover the following scope.
Part 1
-Rule and Intent
- Layout and Architecture
Part 2
- Dynamics
- Powertrain
Part 3
- Driver Controls
- Structures including chassis and suspension
- Bodywork
In this video, we will be looking specifically at:
- What is a Cyclekart
- Scope of the Design Series
- Why a Lotus 25
- Layout and architecture including:
- Benchmarking and Simulation
- Car Targets
- Track, Wheelbase and Driver Ergonomics
- Engine Position - Mid vs Rear Engine
- Suspension Type - Double wishbone vs Beam Axle
- Steering Architecture - Front Steer vs Rear Steer
- Outboard Steering Geometry Explanation
- Castor
- Trail
- KPI
- Scrub Radius
- Castor and Scrub Combined
This section will elaborate on the geometric effects of Castor and KPI as well as the force effects of Trail and Scrub Radius.
Leave us a comment below or DM us on Instagram or Facebook @teamjuric
We have more videos in the works so stay tuned.
As promised some links to websites from the Originating Cyclekarters
www.cyclekarts.com/
www.cyclekartclub.com/
CZcams Video
Cyclekarts- Incredible tiny race cars YOU BUILD yourself?!
• Cyclekarts- Incredible...
These articles made me super keen to build one
www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...
petrolicious.com/articles/che...
#carbuild #chassis #design #builtnotbought #carbuild #cardesign #suspension #doublewishbone #midengine #rearengine #vehicles #vehicledesign #cyclekart #lotus25 #teamjuric #welding #fabrication
#spaceframe #chassis #chassisfab #machining #steering #tubeframe #jig #cardesign #carbuild #projectcar #racecar #engineering #automotivedesign #engineeringdesign #camber #castor #caster #KPI #scrubradius #steeringgeometry #suspensiongeometry #formulalibre #beamaxle #ergonomics #driverplacement #steeringrack #
0:00 Introduction
0:06 DESIGN
0:14 TEAM JURIC
1:25 SCOPE
2:10 RULES AND INTENT
5:19 BENCHMARK AND SIM
5:55 CAR TARGETS
6:48 LAYOUT AND ARCHITECTURE
8:52 ENGINE PLACEMENT
11:00 SUSPENSION LAYOUT
13:03 GEOMETRY
16:22 TRAIL
19:26 KING PIN INCLINATION
21:26 SCRUB RADIUS
22:42 SCRUB AND CASTOR
25:47 STEERING LAYOUT - Auta a dopravní prostředky
The best and simplest explanation of steering and suspension geometry I have seen, thanks
Thank you!!
@Fur8002. Seconded.
@@pommunist really glad it was helpful
Wow... you literally blew my mind. That was a brilliant tutorial, I only realise now how little I knew. Thanks so much for your time and effort. You just perfectly illustrated the generosity of makers and the beauty of shared knowledge.
Thank you! I was fortunate enough to be taught by a real diverse group of amazing people and I hope I'm doing them justice by sharing some of that knowledge and if you read the comments I'm learning lots from the community.
Being curious and having the community mindset is so important. If there are other things you're interested in please let me know. I'm using the cyclekart as the basis for this (which has aggrieved some people) however all these principles apply to any vehicle, if I had the money and time it would actually be a motorbike engined open wheeler that would be the project basis, but this project is a great compromise of cost, complexity and fun!!
Do you have a project you're working on?
Great comment. I'm from Brazil and amazed how friendly and talented cyclekart groups are. Hope someday I have one. Congrats to you ali.
It is a great community! What inspiration car would you base your cyclekart on?
Just heard of cyclekarts for the first time today. Instantly love all the karts and the simplicity, along with really honing race craft. Thought I knew about suspension until today. Great video and great info!
They are really great, I wouldn't say that racing is really the intention and I'm going a bit off the beaten track with mine compared to the more conventional cyclekarts.
Glad you found the deep dive useful!
What projects are you working on?
Probably the best explanation of articulated independent suspension design I have ever seen.
Thank you
Outstanding presentation. Many years ago Road & Track Magazine ran a series of articles on designing a sports car. This kind of information, what and how, as you have presented it. Provided, at a level just below engineering school levels, for the gear head with some mechanical knowledge to understand. Steering mechanics applies not to just cycle cars, but to any four wheel,and two in front three wheeled vehicle. Thank you very much for the refresher. You have me hooked. Its going to be interesting.
Glad you enjoyed it! I should have been more clear as it's not meant to be specifically about cyclekarts, it's just the project I'm building, the content is actually for wider consumption and can be applied to anything.
I'm lucky enough to have been exposed to this and I take the knowledge for granted, hopefully this is accessible to anyone who is actually interested in learning
Thanks. This is one of the best explanations I've ever seen.
Thank you!
Hearing you mention FSAE is awesome. I've been involved with cyclekarts for a while and have videos on them on my channel but am now at university an very involved with the Formula Student team there. Cyclekarting really is a hobby for those who miss being involved with formula student!!!
Love the video, excited to watch the rest
FStudent is such a good experience for engineers, it's a shame that a small number of students get to do it or an equivalent project during school. What team are you part of and what aspect of the car are you involved in?
Cyclekart is a great hobby for those who miss it, it's not all about the race, it's about the process and journey. There isn't a lot of appreciation of how much work is involved in not physical construction but also getting the design right so you don't ruin the fun.
I'm glad there are others like you who get that these videos are not about building a cyclekart that will $hit on everyone and ruin everything. For me I'm just sharing the process and rationale behind my choices, ala design event... Im still trying to get the chassis video done before Christmas but there is a lot to go...
Very comprehensive explanation of these complex tech design details! Kudos!
Thank you, Ive got another video in the works
Fantastic explanation, thank you for sharing!
Glad it was helpful!
Amazing video and project - new sub. I'm a moto guy brand new to Cyclekarts so this is like university for me. I understand moto rake and trail but now we add another axis in too - interesting stuff. The answer to "if there's interest, I'll do more detailed videos" is a resounding yes - if you have time and would do that for us.
Thanks mate! Be aware that I'm not doing the normal CycleKarts thing, I'm going a bit over the top with the engineering on some things so just keep that in mind. But the theory will apply to any car.
If there is an area you want more detail on let me know and I can add it to a future video. The only caveat is that I'm slow at releasing new content as it takes me ages do the editing so it might be a little while...
Very good explanation thanks
Thank you for watching, hopefully it gives you some food for thought
Many thanks for your efforts in providing valuable technical design information for cyclekart builders. Looking forward to future episodes.
I'm glad you liked it. The next episodes are still a bit away, but hopefully something before the end of the year.
I am currently building a wood mock up of my kart project similar to yours, it is a bit of a challenge to package my XLT body into a mid engine kart with A arm front suspension.
I'm not familiar with an XLT body, what is that? The challenge is the fun bit 😁
To be honest I actually don't like driving the cars, I just like the design and build journey
@@teamjuric XLT = extra, large, tall.
Oh dear, I should have read your original post again. I thought you were talking about a type of car not yourself 🤪
That's a channel that I will follow an a project that I will build
Thanks and great to hear! Let me know if you have any questions or need some help. Check out some of the build photos on our teams Instagram @teamjuric
Amazing explanation and graphics! What software did you use to develop the solid models?
Thanks Wesley. I use Solidworks for the CAD and PowerPoint for the advanced visual aids 😂
Thanks for an awesome instructional / educational video. I know nothing about race cars and when coming across cyclekarts...I became fascinated. I'd love to give it a go. What is the cyclekarts scene like in Australia?
Hi Josh, I'm glad you liked it. The thing I like about cyclekarts is you can go as simple or as complex as you like. These vids aren't just meant for cyclekarts, this can apply to a normal car, I just can afford a full sized race car so I picked this class to build to...
There are a few people in Aus who have built or are building one but it's not as organised as the US or UK is.
Where are you based?
I’m new to cyclekarts and am in the U.K. my car of choice was either a Vanwall, or this, so I’ve lucked out there, plus this one is lower✅✅
I see it might be an aluminium chassis, and hopefully it’s plans will be metric😮
Looking forward to following this series.
Hi Roger, great minds think alike!!
It'll be a steel space frame, I did consider an ally tub but I wanted to do a spaceframe first. Depending on how this series goes, I might make an ally tub for it.
Everything is in metric, but there are a few imperial parts but nothing too complex.
Thanks for the support and feel free to hit me up with any other questions you might have
I'm
My bad on the alloy frame, I thought I saw you welding alloy square tube in an earlier video☹️
I hope you are going to size the fake engine bell mouths so they can double up as Costa coffee cup holders, as there are bound to be at least 8 interested peeps looking on🤣🤣🤣
@@rogercrier9115 I didn't even think of that. I'm going to have to do something now!!
@@teamjuric Wouldn't spending that much on aluminium kinda go against the ethos of DIY cheap driving? (as it's classed as gentleman's racing)
@@1crazypjI'm not sure what you are referring to, my chassis is steel and I might get some velocity stacks done in aluminium...
plus you wouldn't do an ally space frame it's weak as anything and not safe, you'd do an ally tub from folded ally sandwich panel which is way more cost effective
Such a great overview. Designing my cyclekart now. Where did you find the CAD model of the engine and ‘torque converter’ (or did you just make it?)
Thanks mate, I found the CAD models off GrabCAD. I try to avoid having to draw off the shelf gear.I always google them first to see if a model exists and if not I psych myself up and spend hours making dodgy simplified CAD models in between lots of swearing and crying. Link to the torque converter cad I think I used.
If you have any questions or need a sounding board ping me a message in Facebook or insta messenger.
grabcad.com/library/torque-converter-comet-tav2-30-100-gtc-tc2-1004-40-41p-1-bore-1/files
Cheers,
Phil
Found the engine there but missed this. Nice! Thank you!
@@coultl6556 my pleasure
Excellent detailed explanation of steering geometry, however with the narrow rounded tread on most cyclekart tires, the steering effort is pretty much effortless anyway. It is always a good idea to try to optimize it with sound engineering.
For sure, with no front braking, low lateral forces and low corner weights, cyclekarts would end up with low steering forces.
I was a bit rusty with my vehicle dynamics so it was good to go through this process myself to remember things!! And I thought it would be a good idea to share some knowledge.
In the next video I'll be releasing this week, I'll actually quantify some steering efforts so have a look and let me know what you think!
I very much appreciate the feedback and having a chance to chat with some people with cyclekart knowledge.
@@teamjuric you could just glue on a bunch of extra tread onto a slick bicycle tire, and achieve the desired profile. You can also modify the rims to run tubeless, and cement the tire onto the rim.
Hi, I'm not sure how easy or safe glueing the tread would be. However, I have thought about doing a custom three-piece wheel with a tubeless tyre rather than a spoked wheel, but I need to finish one before I start to do anything a bit different.
I wondered how long it would be before I saw some professional design engineers enter this sport; it was inevitable but feels slightly outside the spirit of what in the USA and UK is intended to be a very low cost eccentric motor sport spawned in the home garage.
I am building my car in my home garage at an extremely low cost, the minister of finance aka my wife wouldn't sanction anything ridiculous.
It's a pity so many people see this as outside of the spirit, I'm not building it to win some non-existent competition. This endeavour has really given me some enjoyment and a nice cost effective creative outlet for me. I honestly thought the spirit of cycle karting is to have fun building your own car from scratch, joining a good community and learning something.
You're not the first and won't be the last to comment like this, but I'm going to keep having fun building my car in my home garage and hopefully pass on some knowledge to people who are interested in how to design and build a car from scratch.
Same thing happened to go-karts.
There is a difference in that go karts were pretty much a competition from the start which brings money, this will never be anything other than a hobby as it's freedoms give you the chance to express yourself, the manifesto makes it clear this is not about competition etc...
Be under no illusions. A British person can design and build a rocket in their garden shed 👍
With ingredients stolen from under kitchen sink 😂@@jrea424
Man, if I build one of these, a small block V8 is gonna go in it.
🤣small block weighs more than the car itself.
Where did you come up with 40" for width?
Hello, I got it off the CycleKarts Australia Official Facebook page as one of the 6 standards for CycleKarts in Australia. It specifies Maximum 40" track width from outside of tyres.
Hello, I got it off the CycleKarts Australia Official Facebook page as one of the 6 standards for CycleKarts in Australia. It specifies Maximum 40" track width from outside of tyres.
You show the front axle stub 90deg to the kingpin. If you were to angle the axle stub to 90deg to the road, but kept the kingpin angle your steering would have a reduced effort. Angle the axle stub
Hi thanks for the comment. With respect to the stub axle perpendicular to the king pin, I only did that to illustrate the effect in an exaggerated case.
Normally the stub angle would be 1-3deg relative to the horizontal depending on how much static camber you design into the system.
Changing the stub angle will move the contact patch relative to the steering axis, but it's at the expense of camber so it is a parameter to adjust but it's generally not common to adjust camber for steering effort...
On some setups like gokarts you can only adjust camber with kpi, but I like to decouple these two as they have different effects.
@@teamjuric Ah, understood! Now it makes sense. Sorry 🙂
All good! I like having these conversations, I always go back over the content and make sure what I've presented is somewhat accurate, as I'm very rusty with some of this stuff!
do you sell this chissie I'm in the U S
Hi Jeff, unfortunately I am not selling the plans just yet but once I've completed with the first car I'll consider selling the plans
buggatti also used alloy wheels in the 1920s
Does anyone know if a cycle car could be made to be street legal?
I wouldnt recommend it, they aren't very safe or practical
Not even close to legal.
A reverse trike would be easier to build and be legal.
Going on like this and will end up with V12 engines.
Hi David, I do not think I was advocating doing anything other than following the guidelines to keep to the original intent of cyclekarting.
I am just sharing some basic engineering and vehicle dynamics principles. You're drawing a long bow to suggest that using a car that was on the cusp of moving away from wire wheels or explaining how castor or trail works means we will end up with v12s in CycleKarts...
Have you actually watched the videos or are you just assuming what my intentions are?
Where will you race this?
At this stage there are no events planned in Australia. I'll just have to find some carparks to go testing and driving in until there are events organised.
I might see if I can enter it into a hill climbing event but I don't like my chances.
If there is enough interest in my series after I finish this car I was going to go and build the proper hillclimb open wheeler that I put a picture of in the video.
@@teamjuric Might be able to get an invitation to a vintage event like the Geelong Revival?
It would be awesome to get down to the Revival, it's a bit of a hike for me now from Brisbane though.
I think most people who look at this can read! Your into is over long?
Thanks chief, I'll keep that in mind for the next video I'm working on, hopefully you've enjoyed the main bits of content
@teamjuric I you didn't think I was being rude, but I wanted your content, which was great.your 16-inch wheels were, "Do you get yours from, and what's the cost
I got them off eBay, the ones most expert cyclekarters think are the worst ones. They were $75AUD each
Yeh it's hard to tell on this, there are lots of experts and keyboard warriors who like to comment on here...
Another producer who talks over music, why? why? why?
Hi Joe, Im very new to this so I'm very interested in your feedback. I try to keep the music as low as possible so it's not a distraction. However can you elaborate on your comment, what exactly about the music frustrates you?
Joe...have cup a tea and a lie--down. I thought it was absolutely fine. Can't please everyone huh 🤔