The Dark Knight | analysis by therapist (The Joker and Batman explained)
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- Christopher Nolan's Batman trilogy is my favourite superhero series. Here I provide analysis for The Dark Knight. Understanding the Joker and the psychology of the Joker and Bruce Wayne. This video essay analyses the emotional core of the film, its meaning, as well as some more general videoessay thoughts.
My Little Thought Tree is my channel for drawing out the deeper meaning and emotion in film, TV, and the world at large through relaxed, analytical video essays. I am a professional counsellor and often draw on my psychology and therapy background to better understand characters, themes, and emotion in fiction. I upload every Saturday and occasionally on Tuesdays, if I'm feeling productive.
Batman Begins analysis | the psychology of Bruce Wayne - • The Psychology Of Bruc...
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Music (in order):
Batman OST: Blood On My Hands, Lasiurus, Watch The World Burn, Eptesicus, Corynorhinus
Paul Van Nimwegen - Paradigm
Scott Buckley - The Distant Sun
Scott Buckley - The Vision
Scott Buckley - The Spaces Between
Nymano - Departure
Timestamps:
00:00 Agent of Chaos
05:19 The Fallen Knight
13:22 Troubled Ending
18:32 The Joker
28:11 General Thoughts
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#darkknight #joker #analysis - Krátké a kreslené filmy
Something I like, in amongst the many lies characters tell in this film is Two-Face repeatedly stressing how he had to lie to Rachel that "it would all be ok" to reassure her. Where, in reality, it's Rachel that comforts Harvey in the final moments, where he is instead screaming. It doesn't mean much, and he does offer some reassurance earlier on, to be fair, but with the amount he forces Gordon to "lie to your son that it's going to be ok, like I lied" it's just an interesting extra.
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Actually, that wasn't really a lie because before, Harvey was sure that someone was gonna come for Rachel, and that's what he kept saying to her. It wasn't until Batman came for him that he started freaking out, and then Rachel attempted to comfort him. So, when he says he was forced to lie to her, what he's really saying is: "You were supposed to save her, not me."
Could be that whereas Batman has a low opinion of himself, Harvey has a very high opinion of himself. Yet how he acted in Rachel's final moments differs from how he sees himself. He wasn't calm and reassuring as he "should have" been. So he lies, perhaps partially to convince himself that he was her white knight to the very end.
@@netherworlde That's a good point.
@@netherworlde I really like that take
@@netherworlde He was very calm and reassuring when he believed someone was coming for her. He believed she would be saved and he would die. It wasn't vanity. He lost it when he realized Batman had come for him instead, not realizing the Joker had fooled them all by setting up a situation that would inflict survivors' guilt on both men.
Joker HAD to be an ex-agent of military intelligence gone rogue, or a burn-out from at least one of the covert agencies. His tactical skills in planning and execution reeked of a Skunk-works operator...
CIA Joker
CIA Joker
Also no fingerprints. Some secret agents burn off their finger prints.
I think he had somewhat of a similar background to Bruce
I heard a theory that the Joker had the “clean slate” that Selina Kyle was looking for, which is how he was able to erase everything about him.
@@XpLiZiTcOnTeNt7 I was just thinking of that when watching TDKR.
Nothing’s more dangerous than a psychopath who is extremely calm. That’s why Heath’s Joker is very dangerous. I love all the jokers, but Heath’s, to me, in my honest opinion, is very interesting. When things don’t go to his plan, he just improvises, and that’s who Joker is. Joker is basically Professor Moriarty to Batman’s Sherlock Holmes. They are the Ying and Yang, one can’t live without the other.
He Wasn't a Psychopath Psychopath's Find it Hard to Tell the Difference Between Right & Wrong He's a Sociopath Sociopath's Understand the Difference Between Right & Wrong But Ðon't Let those Stop them from Acting in their Own Interest
High functioning psychopath is dangerous. They are more composed.
I’ve already seen essays on this but I still can’t stop seeking them out.This movie is a masterpiece.
It really is. For as successful as Marvel has been in cinema, none of their offerings comes close to this DC masterpiece.
@@DanLyndon yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
@@DanLyndon Yeah,what do we know.
@@DanLyndon "People who don't understand anything about art"
Or maybe it's subjective? Hmmm.
Really agree as great as this movie is written the acting is incredible
I would watch an edit cut of this film with just The Joker scenes. Heath Ledger just captivates. Every time I watch this movie it's purely for him.
Already done ;) m.czcams.com/video/xGcfBRkJSWQ/video.html
@@PsychSoldier756 Wow, an actually good link. Thanks bro
I always wonder how much of that is him and how much is his untimely death. His performance IS something else, but it seems like someone's last performance is always treated like this, even when their best performance was years earlier...
@@nicholashodges201 I don't know that this was Heath Ledger's best performance, but I will say that he is, to me, the definitive Joker. Others have carried the role, and carried it well, even greatly... but I feel like his portrayal touches on the heart of who and what the Joker is best.
@@therisenchampion2023 honestly, for me, it's actually Caesar Romero. Yeah the tv show was campy AF, but there was just something plain creepy about that Joker, and it's like the sillier he acted, the creepier he became.
Like in the next episode, you could find out he actually had an orphanage gassed while he was distracting batman with a dance of and it wouldn't be too much of a surprise.
on your point about the joker being a man with a plan, an incredible detail that most people miss is that when he gives Harvey the gun in the hospital, he keeps his finger over the hammer the entire time it is pointed at him. Hes in control of the situation the entire time, with his speech about chaos merely being a tool to turn Harvey.
Oh didnt realize that until now
Never noticed the dog symbolisim before, regardless of how direct it is. Also: I'm glad you picked up on the whole 'I dont make plans' thing, when he very clearly does. Everyone seems to think hes just chaotic incarnate but that isnt true. He understands people very well and knows just how to break them. He dosent see people, he sees play things to break and destory. He puts on the face paint and theatrics because, thats how the public will resonate with his 'chaos'. 'the joker' is just a mask, a tool. Its not something he's all that speficically invested in emotionally and whatnot.
Edit: also, the whole 'cant let the public know about harvey' is because if he, being district DA, who put all those people in jail, if he we're to be found incompetant to stand office (insane) all his actions as DA would immediatly be overruled. And as established earlier, no-one was going to stand up to the criminals. Especially not if they got the one guy who wouldn't break. So they perpetuated the lie to keep the gangs and such in prison. It was peace through lies. A 'the ends justifiy the means' question.
Yes! Everybody either takes him at his word about not having plans, or they assume he had the ONE plan that just HAPPENED to work. NO. He had plans inside plans, contingencies for contingencies. You think getting caught and breaking Lao out of prison personally was his plan A? I don't.
that bit about Harvey also makes me think about how many people he put away, yet he ended up committing numerous crimes himself
Reminds me of Petyr Baelish, he thrives in chaos while scheming and planing. From the book, never the TV serie.
Pure chaos doesn't ever follow a plan. There's no way that this particular version of the joker didn't plan for well over half of this. Granted some of it could have been not necessarily completely planned out. There are always unseen variables. But chaos doesn't follow patterns chaos doesn't follow a plan and chaos is ultimately unpredictable in the end.
Going a little deeper with the whole dog aspect of things.. every domesticated dog has relatives that originated with wolves. A wolf is an apex predator. The wolf does not need to run in a pack like a coyote. What in nature hunts wolves???
Not a damn thing that's what.
I loved this essay. Loved that you pointed out at the general frustration the joker feels at being called a freak. It's such a great bit for this representation of the character. Also your analysis of Bruce was very interesting.
This film was the epitome of "It ain't gonna get done unless you do it yourself." This trilogy of Batman wasn't the honed warrior psychopath the many versions of the comic character was. It was a guilt ridden man who did everything to alleviate himself of the guilt and was desperate for a successor.
This version of Batman doesn't have Robins and Batwomen. He is constantly alone. Won't train students and wants the system to take over his legacy.
He inevitably fails heavily but scrapes a win in the end.
The Nolan Trilogy was special and a noble effort and definitely a spectacle but even Christian Bale himself said that after seeing Heath Ledger's performance he wish he did better.
The Joker in this film is a hypocrite. He isn't insane or a chaotic entity, he is a calculating sociopath who received heavy trauma and seeks power through action.
He is a troll who sees Batman as a profile to ruin and "Wreck".
I respect this version of the Joker because of his intent and creativity but he is 100% sane. But the fact that this Batman couldn't interrogate or trace any gang member into finding the Joker's locale was odd but beneficial to the narative.
I’ve seen Batman begins easily over 15 times (it’s my comfort movie) and probably the Dark Knight at least 10 times… but I’ve never made the connection of Bruce’s connection and adoration of Harvey dent being connected to his adoration of his father and the symbol he projected in Bruce’s eyes, yet… it makes so much sense upon realizing it and actually kinda addresses a few of the things I didn’t love about the Dark Knight. So thank you for this insight, it actually has changed how I view this movies upon another rewatch.
2:55 not sure you noticed that the joker held the hammer down on the revolver when he gave the gun to Dent. That tells you he was always in control even when he was tempting Harvey Dent to kill him.
This was a great and refreshing analysis. I love how you point out that there's something off about Harvey Dent from the very beginning and how Bruce sees too much of his father in him to the point where he's blind sighted by his fall, and the Joker's desire to externalize the chaos that's constantly present in his own head. It's been a while since I've heard some fresh takes on this movie, which I can't get enough of.
it kinda makes you wonder why would they call him Two-Face in the office besides from his coin game... could it be due to anything else? He might have been hiding darkness and aggression behind his intentions of doing what's right
Yes. I think Dent is a fallen hero story structure wise and they always have to be already somewhat corrupted before they fall all the way. This fits Harvey to a tee.
He is the top symbol of the Justice system in Gotham. He’s supposed to follow the rules. But instead he does whatever he feels is necessary to get the job done. Do what is necessary said Ra’s AlGuhl. The ends justify the means.
He asks Batman to follow Lau to China and kidnap him because he cannot legally extradite him. He lies and says he’s Batman at the press conference. Even the little things count like using his position of authority to secure a reservation at Bruce’s hotel / restaurant despite a three week long waiting list. The same one Bruce ceremoniously wrote a check to buy in Batman Begins, I’m guessing.
So yeah, there was something off about Harvey. He wasn’t as white a knight as he was credited to be. Meanwhile Bruce is the real White Knight.
Tidbit - Nolan gave an interview in which he said the title of the movie refers to BOTH Batman and Harvey - since Harvey falls…i.e. no longer the white knight by the end of the story.
Harvey put himself above the law he was supposed to be serving - and vengeance overtook him when he suffered a loss. Bruce suffered the same loss of Rachel and yet saves the man that killed her (Joker) from falling to his death to deliver true Justice as Rachel had preached to him in Begins. Stark contrast.
I love this whole trilogy. I’m pretty sure the overall theme, the common thread between the movies is the idea that how we choose to deal with death and grief is at least as important as how we choose to live our lives. People who saw Star Trek The Wrath of Khan will recognize that line.
Also, the best way to honor the lives of those taken from us is to live our own lives to the fullest in the present reaching forward to the future and not dwelling in the past or the loss. That is the theme from Gravity and other movies as well.
Clearly Bruce completes a character arc in learning to cope with his grief and guilt which allows him to move away from Gotham and pursue happiness and love.
Nolan / Bale’s Batman is the only iteration of the character to do so on the big screen. This is why Nolan is determined there won’t be a fourth. It would destroy Bruce’s arc. But if anybody could figure out how to bring Bruce back to Gotham Nolan could - if he wanted to.
Just bring Bruce back to mentor Blake or whoever else donned the cape in the canon. He can stay healthy minded and still serve his family’s legacy from “the chair in the Batcave”.
Okay that’s it. I could go on for days but …😂😂😂.
Listening to you explain the Joker was very interesting. I've never really understood that character or why people like him, but I guess he's a modern version of Iago, and just destroys because he can, but at the same time he's looking to see himself reflected in those around him, wants to prove he's not unique. This was fascinating. I love your in-depth look at characters! :)
Always thought there was something similar between the two
I once heard from a psychologist who had dealt with abusers, and I might not get everything right because it was a long time. But he said that a common motivation of abusers to abuse, was not because they enjoyed hurting. But it was because they ultimately believed that everyone was rotten to the core, usually they were people who had suffered abuse themselves as a kid or something very traumatic happened, which had led them to see humanity with lots of cynicism.
So because they believed humanity was rotten to the core, them becoming an asshole and an abuser was justified, they were just rotten as everyone else. In their eyes, they were not bad, everyone was.
So seeing good people to them, it was infuriating because if they were not rotten, it meant humanity was not rotten, so it meant it was just them who were rotten. So part of the reason of abuse was due to anger, but another part was to see the abused snap and show their dark side, just to justify their worldview. To justify their acts, they needed to see others become rotten.
So maybe the Joker is like that.
The psychologist also mentioned that there was people who were precisely the same, but believed in the goodness of people. And often opposites attract. So it is very sad, because often, really good people will end up with abusers, the classic "I will change him/her".
It really depends the version. Often in comics he takes on a mythological Trickster role, in that there's some lesson or message he's trying impart through his violence & chaos. Or he's just opposing Batman because he "has to"
I like to think of it as more like, Joker knows the world is rotten to the core. BUT! He thinks it can be saved. The only problem being, that in order to be saved, whoever is doing the saving needs to know what's truly wrong.
And that's his job. Show anyone who can save the world just what's wrong with it.
Miss... The good guys... You like them and all that but if we like saved alllll the people in the world, provide them with everything they need, no more poverty, no more nothing.... Just enjoying life and making babies... Pretty soon this planet would run out of resources and space!!! We would ALL die!!! So actually being a 'good person' does not mean that you'll have a good outcome. It can be quite the opposite!!! It can lead you to the end of times actually! So you probably didn't liked the Joker because you bought that goody 2 shoes stuff and never thought much about it. So your 'existential building' cannot conceive such a fundamental flaw for the sake of structure. Because that building can come crashing down and you don't want to rebuild it because it's too much work. That's why Joker loves chaos in many ways. because IT IS a process of destruction and rebuilding alllll the time. That can drive most people insane... Because the second they lose their fundations they no longer can operate objectively in the world. They don't know what's right or wrong anymore! Which is harder to know in fact because Right or Wrong isn't just about what you think... It's about Time and how things will fall into place. Which are out of control most of the times. There's room to love Chaos because there's surprise and out of ordinary results in it.
Joker makes fun of Batman because... There's not much of a point for being a good OCD person. Things ultimately are out of control anyways. Batman is just an idiot operating under a false narrative. Although.... Doesn't mean Joker is 100% right and true. Because total chaos or letting things fall into absolute chaos is not a good thing either. Batman and Joker are 2 extremes that cancel each other out. As long as they believe in their stuff... That will last forever
If you re-listen to Alfred's monologue, it's revealed that Alfred and his buddies were the villians in that story.
???
@@ComicAcolyte because they were in Burma I guess ?? This dude knows nothing
@@yurigaviria6794 Alfred explains that he and his friends LITERALLY burned down the forest in Burma to find a jewel thief therefore Alfred was the real villain in Burma. He destroyed an ecosystem an possibly killed people and villages in the process
@@shadow1395100 ohhhhh lowkey that’s super smart
@@shadow1395100 yeah because trees don't grow back...stop getting your morals from crazy elites who ski all day and think that they're connecting with nature somehow in that process.
Also pretty sure they wouldn't be allowed to mindlessly kill the civilians merely to catch a jewel thief in MI6.
As with the "I'm not wearing hockey pads" crack when the joker says "you're not one of them". There's a divergence where Batman and the Joker believe they're both right and engage in behaviour where they judge and intervene in the lives of others. Both believe the system has massive flaws that essentially then frees both to do as they please to those around them. In this way the Joker was more self aware than Batman. I think if you call him afreak you've walked into his trap, proved him correct about you so he can attack you. Batman believes he's allowed make viligante attacks but not other. The Joker starts out robbing the mafia, he actually dismantled at least one gang making them fight to the death. It's similar to viligante violence and lying to the population to preserve the image of Harvey Dent. They're doing what they want to cause society to behave how they want it to based on different goals, one to uphold the rules of a broken system by breaking the rules if that system and the other to show the population the system is broken by breaking the rules of that system.
One targets criminals, the other targets innocents
@@fatbitch7168 One can delude himself he's not breaking the rules of the broken because he makes a moral judgement on those he targets. They're using the brokeness and corruption inherent in the courts and police to make money which the billionaire finds morally unacceptable. Joker directly targets the cops and mobsters at head of the broken system.
Fantastic comment
Re the idea of the Joker's scars being self-inflicted, consider what he says to Batman after the ferry passengers don't blow each other up. (I'm quoting from memory.)
"You can't get good help these days. You have to do everything yourself. I always have. That reminds me... do you know how I got these scars?"
I always took that as a very strong hint that he gave himself the scars.
Could certainly be psychosis of trying to fit in but being abused like many institutions do for someone else's gain and becoming this rogue mercenary vigilante chaos agent pushing Society as an evolutionary catalyst.
Scars are metaphorical to his ability to adapt, overcome and transform just like that of the butterfly and mutilation transformation of cowboy bill in silence of the lamb.
The Joker started out as kid in an abusive household, joined the military to do something good, as well as get away from his abusive father. He was so good at his job, he was recruited for Black Ops, The government erased his identity in order to cover themselves in case he and/or his squadron got caught. He ended up getting captured, tortured, and saw all his friends die, who where the only people who ever cared about him. It was a mission that was set up to fail, but out of good faith he did it anyway to serve his country. At the end, they didn’t even come to save him or his buddies. They didn’t even try. After he escaped, scarred and suffering from severe PTSD from seeing everyone he ever cared for butchered,, he wanted payback.after everything he sacrificed for them, they just left him to the wolves. He was a guy who had nothing to lose. His motivation was strictly payback.
That’s my theory…..
“Serve his country” yeah right.
That's a very good theory:)
One thing I really like about your videos is you don’t hyper-cut your speech like so many people on CZcams try to do. There is the right amount of pause and conversation that makes listening to this as a natural lecture. Really love this.
In the "Boat Scene" the fact that the joker had a backup plan says that at some level he knew that the people aboard each boat wouldnt blow themselves up. His look after, was it sadness, or relief? Food for thought.
Loneliness. He was in his feelings because he couldn't drag all those people down to his level with him.
A bitter and twisted dude.
Here from 2 years later, asking very politely for you to please finish your fantastic analysis of this trilogy.
Thanks.
Joker is a soldier, probably went insane during his tour, probably saw a lot of his friends die and he went crazy. Would had made a hell of a origin story.
I know that theory. That's why he mentioned the truckload of soldiers while talking to Harvey, and also could be the reason of his scars. Would be one of the best origin stories.
I like the idea of not knowing where he comes from. Just an embodiment of chaos. But I’m my head, him being a former soldier of some kind makes the most sense
He not only mentioned truck load of soldiers but gangbangers as well.
I think it would be more likely he's a former soldier but did things that caused him to be discharged - so he doesn't want to talk about it as he can't be seen as a loser. He can't be trusted to work with a group.
Nope...Joker is the Devil disguised as a human
This is a great essay. As much as people talk about this movie, so few explore how the Joker utilizes the facade of chaos to reinforce his own beliefs. As much as he thinks Batman is clinging to a ridiculous hope in human order, the Joker ultimately takes his “social experiment” into his own hands the second his philosophy is proven wrong
26:44 Thank you for this - “If ‘they’re only as good as the world allows them to be’, why can’t we allow them to be good?”
This is how you beat the Joker, fundamentally.
I suppose he would counter with something like "they don't deserve the chance". Which too is refutable.
Nice try but the Joker is right. Everybody can be pressed into evil. If you're good, you haven't been pressed. Most people aren't, therefore most people are good.
The point is that it's up to us as individuals to bring order to the chaotic world to allow for goodness. It's easy to destroy, but it's also pointless. What is the point of showing that everyone is selfish if doing so removes the possibility for improvement? The only thing I can think of is shining a light on the roaches of corruption, but I'm not convinced tearing down society wouldn't just allow corruption to fester.
I rather light a candle, than curse the darkness.
First you gotta ask well who or what is restricting the actors of the world and then you gotta ask what's the means to an end.
Dualistic encounter for boundaries to give depth to an experience purely just the human condition.
Then you wonder well how does it evolve with how many tangents or factors for infetesmal experiences.
Triggered by agent of chaos
"What's a world without chaos?, And if there was such a place could we handle it?".
Seems to me it circles back to the political divide of the great rebellion encapsulated by such agents or actors to play out in revolution purely for entertainment or better yet experimental scenarios showing specific progressions of evolution.
I always felt the Joker began as a normal guy, but joined the military, probably a post 9/11 patriotic enlistment. Got PTSD, returned from war and his PTSD made him a social outcast. Add in the Glasgow smile pushed him over the edge. The Jokers motivation was to show that people will break, just like he did, given the circumstances, which he is trying to place into them. The ultimate revenge on society.
3:14 chaos always wins over order, because chaos is more organised. Terry prachete
i just love how many more things keep coming out of analyzing this movie
A lot of your analysis of the Joker aligns with his monologue from The Killing Joke.
If you ever get the chance, I would love to see your response to the Joaquin Phoenix version of the Joker :)
...not to dump more work on your plate
He already did one! It's great
@@zacharyfiske9218 ...oh good to know. Thanks. I'll go and find it :)
@Zachary Fiske I did technically do one but that was a rushed reaction as soon as I got out of the cinema. I intend to do something better one day
@@mylittlethoughttree I hope not. I really enjoy your work, but that movie just doesn't provide a lot beyond the surface. I find Joaquin's performance to be performative for the sake of his own appearance. Not for the character, or narrative.
Excellent video! I love the deep dives into Bruce and the Joker.
One thing I interpreted differently: "I'm not wearing hockey pads." I always took that as saying, "I have the skills and equipment for the job. You're amateurs, and you're going to get yourselves and other people killed." Something that does ultimately happen, though we don't learn how.
I'm not saying he's 100% right about this. I think it does show a certain kind of privilege to sneer at people trying to help because they can't go globetrotting to train with ninjas or buy hundreds of thousands in gear.
exactly. the joker is actually extremely resourceful in comparison. even though we have no idea where he eats and sleeps, hes obviously still functional somehow, all his street smarts allowed him to stay alive while essentially being broke and maintaining a low profile with his scars. sure, its easier to destroy a city than to build it, but its also pretty easy to be the world's greatest detective with unlimited resources and nourishment.
Although I prefer the mystique of not knowing the Jokers motivations behind his actions, some people tie in the “Joker” movie to answer this. On a side note, I think the Two Face from Batman the animated series had a better background story where he suffered from multiple personality disorder after being bullied at a young age.
Great insight as always. The Dark Knight has been discussed to death and I'm always skeptical that there's much more new to say, but I had not personally encountered the argument that Bruce misreads Harvey because he views Harvey as the "true" successor to his father's legacy. I had always read the end of the movie as an affirmation of Bruce's decision to sacrifice batman in order to protect Harvey's public image, but I suspect that your analysis that this is just another expression of Bruce's guilt over his parents' death is probably just as well supported by the text. Super interesting.
One question, if you're up for it: some commenters have proposed a backstory for Joker wherein he is a veteran of war suffering from PTSD, coping with his trauma by inflicting it on others. This is not directly supported by the text of the film, but possibly hinted in a few moments here and there. Does this theory have merit, based on your experience?
Yeah, I mean I think how you read the end of the movie is correct and is exactly how we're meant to read it too. I think having Gordon explain it with a speech and things tells us that's what Nolan wants us to think...I just also believe that the psychology of Bruce as depicted in this trilogy makes it emotionally likely he would make that decision...even if it is also the logical one.
I think there's sense to that theory because the drills done in the street parade aren't at all easy and would likely have required some practice from the Joker beforehand as to not stand out. Whether it's correct or not, I don't know, but I think it's a plausible idea
@@mylittlethoughttree True, Gordon's voice over lends authority to the "noble sacrifice" interpretation of Bruce's actions. But I think the fact that it comes from Gordon, who places the needs of Gotham over the needs of any one individual, leaves room for your analysis - it is possible to do the right thing for emotionally complex (I hesitate to use the word "wrong") reasons. I think I need to watch the trilogy again...
Anyway, thanks for your response, and thanks again for the video. I spammed all my friends with it :)
He's exchanging Batman's life for Harvey's public life as if he exchanged his life for his father's
maybe he would even feel like it's fair or like he's making amends to Gotham and the figure onto which he projected his father for it in some way
2:05 Harvey also says "The Joker's just a mad dog. I want whoever let him off the leash" to Maroni before he kills him and his driver.
You nailed it. Basically all we know about this Joker is he's a pathological liar, and he's extremely good at manipulating people, with those lies. "Wanna know how I got these scars?" Even to the point that he sprinkles in just enough of the Truth to make the lies more believable. "Do I look like a guy with a plan?" Of course not. That's the point, it's his MO. Obviously, he's such a careful planner that he can arrange for a School Bus to back in, right after he mentions the Bus Driver, and steps aside to make room. His plans are flexible enough that he can improvise, but he still thought to bring a smoke grenade tied to the yarn of his sweater so it could unwind, and he could pull the pin remotely. Even though he didn't plan for the Loan Officer to come after him with a shotgun, he could pull that gag off the cuff. (If you'll pardon all the puns.) So obviously, he has a meticulous and flexible plan. However, he talks about "Chaos," like a Nihilist, because if you think that. He has no plan, then you don't even try to figure it out. That's this version of the Joker, in a nutshell. Whatever the truth is, all we know is that we're not going to hear it from him.
As a Therapist, you must know the folly of trying to "Fix" a psychopath, sociopath, or sexually motivated sadist. I'm not saying he's an Anger Retaliatory Rapist, but I wouldn't put it past him. They don't want to get better, because they like it. However, they may say they want to get better, so you try getting in their head. Right where they want you.
He didn’t poison the whiskey. He poisoned the glass.
That makes more sense, cheers!
Yay! been waiting for this one :)
Such a great series Nolan made
I'm so excited every time you upload, great job man!
The joker represents the pinnacle of scheming and he looks down on, resents how useless this skill is to the human condition. He's terminally sane from his point of view. He sees Batman as representing the peak of reactivity to others schemes, one that was trying to get out of the way of society's scheme to put Harvey dent as a false representation of the societal contact being incorruptible. Ultimately, the joker loses because society just folds the jokers machinations into it's own.
I suppose had it been more true to politics, Batman would have kept his PHONAR network
@@o00nemesis00o : Batman has much to live up to, in print, on TV, and in the movies. Shaped by many forces. No wonder he's complicated as a character.
In all of us, two opposing forces wage an eternal war, representing the greatest forces in the human psyche: Bats and Clowns.
The winner will be the one you feed.
Can't wait for the video on the Dark Night Rises.
Dude must have felt very alone with all of those thoughts. I think he might have been projecting himself onto Gordon when we told him, surrounded by utter darkness, that he was absolutely alone
I love that line! I love how it's paralleled when Bruce later tells the Joker he's alone
This was a great video, I really enjoyed hearing your thoughts. I would love to hear your thoughts about the Dark Knight Rises!
In particular, I liked how you focused on the moment when the Joker realizes that neither boat pressed the button before midnight. Its a quick moment and he quickly defects it by taking the matter into his own hands and making good on his threat to blow both boats up. When he reaches for his detonator we feel how Batman feels: afraid for the people on the boats, worried that their lives are in danger. If the boats explode for whatever reason, this is a loss for Batman, for the victims, and for the inhabitants of Gotham. That's what we focus on, but that's not the full story. The full story is that whether or not the boats blow up, this is a loss for the Joker, his first major loss.
If Batman and the police showed up and ruined his social experiment, then he could still claim that his philosophy was true, that deep down regular people are evil and all it takes is fear to expose their true nature. In this case, Batman and the police were not able to interrupt the experiment, nevertheless in the end neither of the boats pressed the button. The Joker's thesis didn't happen as he expected it to, believed it would, even NEEDED it to happen in order to justify his view of the world. These regular people were thrust into a fearful kill or be killed situation and yet they didn't kill each other, they didn't expose that deep down they were evil. If anything they exposed that deep down they're NOT evil, whatever their faults may be on the surface, that under pressure they are capable of leadership, nobility and restraint.
Sure, the Joker can kill them himself, but that wouldn't be a win for the Joker, even if it would be a loss for the rest of Gotham. The Joker lost the moment the clock struck midnight, the moment it was proven to him that his belief wasn't accurate, at least not in this case, but if he was wrong about this it begs the question what else he might be wrong about. You can see him waver, he is visibly shaken by this result. This is genuine chaos, not his manufactured organized brand of chaos when he sets up a situation for the sole purpose of FORCING his desired outcome to happen and pretend it was an unexpected chaotic outcome. This is the universe defying his expectations, something genuinely unexpected happening in spite of how unlikely it seemed to him. The Joker may thrive in and desire his version of organized chaos, but when people are able to remain calm and organized in spite of his chaotic influence, that resilience is genuinely disorienting to him.
That scene reminds me of a scene in the movie No Country For Old Men. If you haven't watched it, I recommend you do so now and avoid having someone like me spoil it (maybe you could make a video about that movie some day, I think that would be really fascinating and fun).
If you are ok with spoilers continue.
There is a scene in that movie where the antagonist character, who shares some things in common with the Joker, has his assumptions about the world defied. Like the Joker, he tries to deflect from this occurrence and act like nothing happened, but it is clear that he is deeply shaken by the event. It is the moment when a character who seems like an inhuman force of nature is suddenly made very human, vulnerable, and small.
Joker relates to your point you made with Ras in your previous video. If the scars are self inflicted, then the Joker has lost himself in his persona/goal unlike Bruce who can remove the mask and have the option for a normal life.
Only just found your channel and as a trainee Counsellor/Psychotherapist your insight is great and I find looking over films with my new knowledge and perspective extremely interesting. Keep up the great work and you’ve gained a new subscriber.
Christian Bale's Batman was very good, his Bruce Wayne was perfection but Heath Ledgers Joker will forever be the best Joker we will have ever seen.
Rachel tells Bruce "this is your mask," Bruce Wayne is the persona he projects to function within society. He is masking. "Don't talk like one of them, you're not. Even if you'd like to be." Nolan's version of Batman and Joker both have Asperger's.
Another great video. It's wonderful to see you continuing to create and upload. Thank you.
24:17
This video, more then anything else, has convinced Mme that The Joker absolutely was being honest with Harvey about who he really is. When The Joker says:
"Do I really look like a guy with a plan?"; he's actually saying:
"Do I really look like I believe there's deeper meaning in life?"
It's a statement that asserts the totality of his nihilistic and cynical worldview. When The Joker refers to city leadership as "schemers" he redefines the word by their desperate attempt to assert and maintain *control.* He's essentially calling this drive they have to be in power: _"a meaningless attempt at purpose"._
What The Joker is saying in the scene that births Two-Face, is that he has forsaken *purpose(a grand plan),* and seizing power to build an empire; His plans are essentially meaningless whims that he doesn't even care about the fulfillment of.
The Joker:
"just does things."
There's no real purpose to his deeds. We judge his words by pedantic semantics, instead of understanding the meaning he gives the words through the _context_ he says them in. He never actually stated that he: "acts purely on impulse without making a single plan". That's nonsense, and underestimates the greater philosophical debate being waged.
This also makes Mme wonder, could Thomas Hobbes have been correct, if humanity lacked a moral compass as well? Without law, _AND_ morality, what is there to stop us from destroying each other and ourselves?
He does seem to have a greater plan though. To show humanity it's lack of morals. He also does directly say "he acts purely on impulse". He likens himself to a dog chasing a car.
To add what if humanity lacked laws AND morals destroys the whole debate. The point joker makes is that people are only good because they have to be due to law. Joker is literally arguing they don't have morals. So yes of course without morals and laws we'd be awful to each other.
I remember reading and watching videos about the theory that the joker used to be ex-military. It makes sense, with the way he blended in wearing a uniform and no makeup. Maybe he used to have some medical training? Since he also stitched those explosives into a stomach
I appreciate your thoughts how Batman and Joker are the two sides of the same coin, and stuck in between is Harvey Dent. I like to think Dent represents those that are stuck btwn a dilemma of wanting to do good, but may succumb to the dark side.
It's so great to see someone talk about this book ! From a therapists' perspective at that. Thank you for doing this, and I'd love to watch other videos about the stories in the book. One I find particularly affirming is the one about the mother who was neglected as a child & neglected her own child in turn and how both learned to love "as a second language" as it were. I also found it interesting IIRC how the titular boy who was raised as a dog is actually one of the least traumatic stories in the book. And not just because of how horrifyingly traumatic the others are (although many are; but if anyone is worried the one in this video is one of the worst) but also because the child did get some emotional needs met by the dogs.
Of all the many analyses of this film online, very few have ever made the connection between Harvey Dent and Thomas Wayne. Bravo to you for that; it's all subtextual but it's an essential part of Bruce's motivation. I can't wait to hear your thoughts on The Dark Knight Rises. Bruce goes through such an emotional arc in that film and it ties everything from the first two films into a fitting conclusion.
Your analysis of the fallen knight & the perception of his father wasnt something i took into consideration when thinking of his pysche. Its really thought provoking when in the animated movie “The long Halloween” Bruce discovers the relationship between Thomas Wayne & the Falcone crime family compromising his values to incite the change in Gotham that it needs . It really challenges this idealized image of his Father. Its a major focal point in the film & influences his growth as a detective & hero determining what his code will be as well as to what Harvey’s purpose is in the grand scheme of things as in the Dark Knight he spirals down the rabbit hole digging up his fractured psyche leading to the inevitable point of no return in his story. Thanks! You earned a sub.
I love your analysis of this movie and all the movies you analyze
Your insight hurts my soul, in a positive way, but you helped me identify things in my own life.
Keep doing what you’re doing, I’m sure I’m not the only one you’ve helped. Thank you.
Your videos are really relaxing and informative! - thank you for your content and the tenacity to continue dealing with the platform idiocy.
I really enjoy your analysis of the various films you’ve done, particularly the Good Will Hunting analysis, which got my attention of your channel, as well as the analysis of the original Star Wars film. I’m also glad you’ve done The Dark Knight after doing Batman Begins. I love The Dark Knight Trilogy and I hope you’ll do The Dark Knight Rises sometime in the near future as Bruce Wayne’s journey as Batman is really incredible in these three films and seeing the toll being Batman takes on him both physically and emotionally is really unique to the character than we’ve previously seen him on film before this trilogy. Also seeing the consequences of being Batman not just in Bruce’s life, but those around him and Gotham at large is excellent. Keep up the great work and again, I hope you’ll do the third film sometime in the near future. I’d be very interested in hearing your analysis on that film to conclude the trilogy.
I love your videos, can't wait for the next!!
I love your videos and I have always been into psychology even though it was not my major. I never put much thought into analyzing movies or series now I do it constantly.
Funny part is it does get awkward, since I can not turn it off, when I voluntarily go to the psychologist office to work on things that I am catching myself analyzing me and the provider at the same time.
Yes, PLEASE, a vid on the 3rd film!
Dude make these like 2 hours long we love you. We don't care
Another great video, by curiosity what’s your take on the joker being previously a military (there a line he says about a convoy been massacred and it’s alright but if they killed a governor everyone loses their minds) I know it’s little information but it makes sense, there would be where he learned to be a tactician, a profesional arms user, a possible development of an antisocial disorder and also his alienation to normal citizens (the PTSD of living in hell, but also bringing back with him and enjoying it).
I think it's plausible but it's hard to say anymore
Not only is is possible it is very likely. You don't just pick up some of the weapons he uses and not blow yourself up. And the manner his "plans" come off. He was trained. Also, it explains the scars and he only tells those other stories because if he told the real one people would see him as a hero like any wounded vet, and he does not want that. So it's really easy to say if you have ever served.
@@TKFKU I personally believe the scars were self inflicted
@@TKFKU I believe he made the scars for the appearance and to get in people's heads. That's why he changes the story depending on who he talks to, it's a manipulative tool.
the view of harvey dent being the white knight and being the opposite of batman gives the title The dark Knight a whole new meaning.
Not even a minute into the video and I'm alrady anxious about how much video I have left. I'm really looking forward to hear your thought process on this particular Joker. Especially after I really enjoyed your analysis on Spirited Away :D
I finished watching your video and I like the way you explained your thoughts about the characters. I think you perceived it well. I agree with most of what you said.
Yes, I'm in. Absolutely 100%.
Your videos are so unbelievably well made I’m proud to be subbed
Thankyou!!☺️
@@mylittlethoughttree no problem keep working hard
When Batman says 'im not wearing hockey pants' he is saying,
I'm not pretending to be batman;
I am Batman.
Thank you,I enjoy your perspective.
I really enjoy the analysis on this channel. I love the emphasis on human reactions and thoughts, which I just don't run into anywhere else on CZcams, and I don't think gaps in the conversation are bad. Some CZcams video essays are so thorough, so we'll researched and thought through, that I'm not sure if I even have tangible thoughts on the subject by the time I'm done, and I end up sitting there trying to figure out everything and end up rewatching hours of material on things I didn't particularly care about in the first place but now have to understand.
These are simpler. Neither is good or bad, but there's never really a break from the other style of analysis unless I just go explore different things on CZcams, like gamers and book reviewers
Yeah, I guess each style has its advantages and disadvantages. I'd always like to be more thorough than I am but I'm llimited by time. That said, I'd never want to frame anything like "I have all the answers, here is an argument everybody should agree with." Though it's not exactly intended, I think leaving gaps encourages more discussion
@@mylittlethoughttree a lot of people on CZcams who do in depth analysis eventually have the CZcams support to branch into full-time. Since you're invested in your career, do you think you'll ever have time to go as in depth as you want to in the same time frame?
I'd imagine liking the content either way. Since the subject on this channel is oriented around characters, I find the depth in these discussions immense already, so I thought I'd add that I definitely don't them lacking.
Edit: I phrased my question badly. It doesn't seem like you'd want to do CZcams full time. If that's true, do you imagine anything changing that would let you spend the time you want on your analysis?
@@cass6020 well I don't want to stop either, they're both important, but the main issue timewise is how long it takes to edit a video. My eventual goal is to one day earn enough on youtube that I can hire a editor to put all the video clips together for me, because that would free up so much more time to make better videos, more videos, maybe even just get a bit of free time to relax some evenings 😆
Really interesting and it gave me new insights. Thx for that
I’ve never thought of this until now but now I think batman saw his dad in Harvey
Great job, as usual. I'm definitely curious to see your perspective on Dark Knight Rises. Personally I feel the film suffered greatly from Heath Ledgers death. It is easy to see Nolan had plans to bring him back in some capaity (Cilian Murphy is in all three films...), but with the actor's death major rewrites were done.
Maybe protecting Harvey's turn to the darkside was a little about protecting his image as the incorruptible white knight, but it was more about not allowing all the men Harvey had prosecuted a get out of jail free card. Their lawyers would have appealed all their sentences due to having a corrupt prosecuter who was "obviously" not shy about bending or breaking the law. I even think this was spoken about in DK.
Heath Ledger made this movie. It’s kinda funny how Carl Jung influences the characters identities. Except BatMan was supposed to represent the shadow, hence, the dark side of man. All physical, all powerful, violent and unrestrained. So who does the Joker represent in us if Batman is supposed to be our subconscious dark side?
Cool vid. Thanks you for the time you put into it.
This is an amazing analysis
Gotham allowed Harvey Dent to prosecute known mafia associates without warrants (or something like that), and if the truth of Dent came out all the mafia members would be released. So the stakes were a lot more that simply 'letting down Gothamites'
"Unless he's Italian" amazing analysis, loved the video
@My Little Thought Tree *An addition to the segment of your video about the Joker's motivations (A,B,C...): I would add to what you were saying around 21min in that I think another reason for the Joker's presentation of humanity in chaos like that it is a form of self-validation and an actual desire for a greater connection to humanity at large - obviously in a twisted way b/c that's how his mind works, but something of the Joker's version of that universal desire at the same time. The boat experiment is supposed to both demonstrate to gotham city at large and also perhaps even more importantly to reassure himself in the end that he's not the crazy outsider that the people he feels have misunderstood him have labeled him as. He wants to believe that the things he feels (the violent impulses, his tendencies toward the guiltless manipulation of others etc) aren't abnormal and are core human traits that are just repressed by society in most people (as you explained very well in referencing Hobbes). Because his really deep sense of alienation from everyday life and so forth seems to be one of his core motivations. I think that's part of the reason he latches onto Batman - both out of a desire for connection to someone else in general but also with Batman more specifically as someone else the Joker recognizes that he shares a kinship with (not incorrectly on a certain level I think) - both of them existing in a constant state of alienation from greater humanity, albeit for different reasons.
I think the sort of tip off regarding a lot this being the Joker's quest for self-validation and connection comes in the moment you showed when he finds out that the two boats didn't blow each other up. You said that it bothered him b/c it refuted his assertion about humanity's nature, but I think there's more sadness in that look on the Joker's face b/c of the forced realization that he's not actually normal and that in spite of his hopes he discovers he actually is alone and that the connection he thought he felt was merely the product of his projections and self-delusion instead. The Joker shows his "true colors" after this as well as his ultimate response to this realization is to lash out/react violently to what he views is greater humanity's ultimate rejection of him. Something he then has to try and punish them for in revenge.
The part before the switch flips and revenge takes over - the moment of sad realization in the Joker's face, is a little heartbreaking in a very disturbing and unsettling way. (and yes, my impressions from the scene are colored by having experienced certain degrees/feelings of alienation as well - though very much not in the manner he has. Meaning he's still a repulsive character in general for all the reasons that are obvious, and so not a sympathetic one on a general level, but I still can't help feeling that tinge of sadness in seeing that expression if only as reminder of having that felt that way myself at times as well - feeling out of step etc. Thinking more about it, in a way I believe for me its actually more a reflection on/recognition of the situation the joker finds himself in rather than an empathizing with the emotions of the character of the joker himself. Those moments of seeming epiphany centering on the awareness of loneliness. Something that comes part and parcel with the bi-polar disorder I've had since I was a teenager).
Really dug your analysis - great insight. :-) Just came across your channel this evening, and so I'll definitely have to check out some of your other videos.
I've watched a lot of Dark Knight analysis videos over the years but this one still manages to point out new aspects of the film and the characters, which is astonishing.
Definetly will check out your other videos and future content :)
Don't worry if they get lengthy, people nowadays watch 4 hour discussions or ramblings about 2 hour movies or endless video game streams with some dude talking out of his ass.
This video was really cool. 👍 Keep this up.
I love your videos, and find your analysis often similar to my own while also still pointing out things or viewpoints I hadn't considered. I'd love to hear your analysis of Joaquin Phoenixs' Joker film while also including a compare and contrast to Heaths take on the iconic figure.
This was fantastic!
Grand as always!
I think you did really good dude. Great job.
Good way to start my morning
please make another video! Dark knight trilogy is my favorite and I really enjoy your videos
You know, about the boat scene there is one aspect somehow no one brings up, in the movie or any analysis I saw... How do the people know that their remote would blow up the other boat and they would be spared? Maybe they aren't so benevolent after all?
Thank-you for the upload... ESPECIALLY this one 🥰🥰
I think when he said he didn't have a plan he meant he doesn't have an end game he plans out battles as they come but he doesn't have an objective he just wants to disrupt things
Loved this
love your content! xx
He didn't kill Ra's Al Ghul, he just chose not to save his life again.
I don't always pick a perfect actor for a part, but Heath IS the Joker.
I think Joker use the "I'm an agent of Chaos" with Dent because Two-Face is the real agent of chaos (and Joker somehow is able to know Dent to that level). Two-Face doesn't kill some guys (that Ramirez girl, for example) he really detest if his coin save them, but he it's ok killing an innocent chofer because, again, fortune says so. Yes, he has a revenge plan at some point, but he's pretty erratic on the path (which makes sense: a real agent of chaos can't make their own plans work, because the knows chaos/chance is a superior force).
Very interesting video. It got me thinking about the dynamic between Batman and The Joker, and it sort of reminded me of Kierkegaard's concept of a Tragic Hero vs a Knight of Faith. Batman is resigned to the ethicality of his actions while Joker seems to transcend it. We can understand the Batman, but Joker's actions are beyond our objective comprehension.
Great dive, subbed + hope to see your take on Dark Knight Rises!
Fantastic video. Impressive side project you have got going on here :)
Amazing Masterpiece of a video would love to see Dark Knight Rises
thankyou!
I still think the whole ex military theory explains a lot
Deffo. Especially the way he was acting with military precision in the police parade. And his perchance of putting people in situations where you have mere minutes to make decisions that may not go the way you envision. And the perfect precision of the heists. Christ! Even his forever changing scars story reeks of psychological mind fuckery. Military for sure x