1982 - 1992 Porsche 944 Buyer's Guide and Model History
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- čas přidán 8. 11. 2021
- Today's video is a new format I'm trying, in which I look at the evolution of a car and some general hints and tips for those looking to buy. This is not intended as definitive, or exhaustive, and is intended as a primer for those looking to get into a car and hopefully give you some advice as to what you might be looking for.
#Porsche #944 #BuyersGuide
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/ @jayemmoncars - Auta a dopravní prostředky
Ok, missed stuff.
1. Clutch, if it is low mileage be sure to check if the rubber was changed to the spring
2. After car is heated listen for the torque tube and gearbox bearings. Open the door, press and release the clutch and listen.
3. Look for rear hatch delamination.
4. Check if you smell gas fumes, lower a window just a bit on a stopllight, there are multiple reasons why you may smell them: bad rear hatch seal, bad rear lights seal, bad engine bay seal, bad gear leaver seal and foam, slack of the hatch.
5. RUBBER FUEL LINES under the hood!!! REPLACE THEM unless they were recently replaced.
6. Check for the slack in the steering wheel, it might be the tube with 2 U joints that goes into the steering rack or the sterring rack itself.
7. Check if odometer works.
8. Check the trunk cover
9. Are side mirrors glass loose?
That would be the basics, it would be best to take somebody who knows these cars. Some people really stopped liking me after I saw their "gems" when I was looking for one to buy.
Great post, will pin
2. Torque tube rattle is quite common, but seems overrated to me. Mine is rattling a little since I bought it 24 years ago, and it never became worse in those 130t km I have driven it since.
10. Rust in the door sills: Get an endoscope and look inside the vent opening in the door pillar. Easy job.
@@SpeedFlap A borescope from a firearms supplier will do the same.
Great job. That exhaust fumes odour problem can be a nightmare to diagnose/fix- My first Porsche was a 1987 924S and during the years I had it, NO mechanic was ever able to find and eliminate the issue.
@@SpeedFlap Or 10) Take out the vent and put a phone or camera down there.
I daily my 968 coupe, in all weather, has never let me down, just sailed through MOT last week, with a fluids refresh too. 215,000 miles and counting…. Oh, and it’s still on its original clutch!
227k on my 944 turbo. Also original clutch.
That’s incredible, I so need to own one, soon.
For those interested in the topic, Glen Smale’s book entitled “Porsche 924/928/944/968: The Complete Story” is an excellent read cover-to-cover with lots of nuances, statistics, and interesting historical facts about the transaxle series that you won’t find on Wikipedia or other online sources. Highly recommended! 👍🏼
I might as well tell the story of mine.
Got A 1987 944 S HIGH H I GH MILAGE. Like 300k miles.
Original owner drove it and maintained it till about 220k kept having engine issues. Sold it to his mechanic. Got it fixed. Drove it again. Got side swiped when parked. Mechanic bought from the insurance company in early 2000's fixed it again.
The then sat for years. Till about 4 years ago when the Guru in Tennessee and Admin for many forums got the car and got it road worthy once again. Full interior was replaced and motor once again was fully rebuilt. Sold it to a client who paid for all of this to be done. Gave it back to the mechanic because his son didn't want it as his first car.
I got it from the person that got from the mechanic.
Owned it for now 2 years and am slowly getting it back to tip top shape. New clutch. Along with all the small."while your in there parts"
Finally replaced all the shocks and struts. And now am up to the bushings. Which... Is alot and sucks.
BUT. she has never left me stranded. She starts up everytime. She has her quirky past and has a long rough life. But she runs like a top. And I'm truly happy that I got her.
Been wanting a 944 since the 90s. Such a unique car
Still time to get one :)
Porsche did an excellent job with making the 944 look more "Porsche-worthy" compared to the 924. But the 924 did provide a good foundation for that make-over and when I look at it today, it strikes me as very modern for its time. Unusually rounded and streamlined for the 1970s to the point that, when 924-production ended in the late 1980s, it still looked quite modern. And handsome too. Just wanted to say this in the 924's defense 😊.
My gf's family took me on vacation skiing in Vermont in 1980. Someone at the resort had a Silver 924 and I fell in love with them. I hated the 944s. But now I'm older. The 944 is a much more masculine vehicle. I just purchased a Guards Red S2. A dream come true.
It's great having more and more UK channels give the 944 the love it deserves! Well done mate 👍
I think the 944 is the best front engined Porsche ever made!
This video is invaluable to a potential buyer….regardless which side of “the pond” you live on! Thank you for the emphasis on a Pre-purchase Inspection (PPI). I paid for three PPIs in 2005-2006, before I settled on my 1990 S2 Cabriolet…which, while I store it through the winter months (I live in New England), I still proudly own. Oh! One more thing: do not assume that your local modern Porsche dealership can do an adequate PPI on these aging cars! My second year of ownership, I had a minor servicing I couldn’t get to due to my pre-retirement career….I took it to my local (Connecticut) Porsche dealership, and they had to arrange for their on-call partially-retired mechanic to come in. He had a long racing history with Porsche, and we ended up talking for almost two hours (which I paid for….but the education I received on my car was well the price!). The point I’m taking too long to make is: do your research, get a PPI, buy the best example, keep up on the maintenance schedule, and for those mechanically inclined, don’t be afraid to get dirty keeping these gems running! Again, great video!
This guys killing it with this content. Porsche nut here 🙋🏽♂️ I miss my 924 & my 944 (they both had rough and needed a lot of work). But god I miss them. Thanks for this content woo hoo!
The 80’s will always be “only 20 years ago”
Indeed! Ha ha
I wish...
The 968 club sport is a genuine legend in the Porsche line up, and to think it's dad was a " humble" 944. 👍
Loving this format. It's a win for me!
Thankyou!
A few corrections from someone who most likely know more about these cars than anyone in the comment section considering how many Ive had and how long Ive been driving and racing them.
1. Rust is not an issue, or atleast it shouldnt be. These cars are fully galvanized and has good thick undercoating. If its rusty, avoid it, its either lived its life close to the sea or its been in an accident. There is a common rustpoint on them however and that is the lower part of the front fender, just behind the front wheel. This is common only on certain cars thou, all Turbos and S2s because of their plastic stylingstrip, it collects dirt and then rubs against the body and eats throu the galvanization. Keep them clean.
2. The absolute most common issue with these, without a shadow of a doubt and that goes for all different models is the DME relay. I would advice owners to always have a spare DME relay in the glovebox.
3. On Turbos vacuum leaks are a big source of headaches, everything is controlled by vacuum in these cars, even the climatecontrol. One leak can cause many hard to find issues.
4. Another common failurepoint, that you might have said is the oilcooler, it can cause symptoms similar to a headgasket issue. Headgaskets are not common issues on these unless theyve been modified.
5. Timingbelts are way more expensive to replace correctly than you quoted since you also have to replace the balanceshaftbelt and not many people know how to set them up properly. Porsche used to charge something between £1200-1500. You dont have to do it every 4 years thou, the material timingbelts are made of nowadays are much better than in the 80s.
6. These cars, and especially the Turbos, are not cheap to run. Some parts are cheap, like service parts. Parts that are not as readely available thou are crazy expensive. Like a grand for a caliper, or £80 for a watertempsensor. Even the electric waterpump for the turbo have now gone out of stock and Porsche wants £700 for a new one,.
And some minor corrections. The 944 came out in 82. The Turbo came out in 86, or atleast 1986 yearmodel. The facelift came before that, there are two versions of the 85, 85A and 85B. All EU spec N/A cars have 163 hp. The 2.7 liter engine that came out in 87 had the same exact hp as the 2.5. The S2 came out with yearmodel 89, and was made until 91. There are no 92 yearmodel 944s, 91 was the last year. During the last 3 years only the S2 and the Turbo were made (althou you probably said that). They did make a convertible version of the Turbo, and those are most likely the most rare of the 944s, and the most expensive. The 968 that was made between 92 and 95 is actualy a 944. It was supposed to be called 944 S3, and there was supposed to be a 3 liter Turbo version of that aswell with 300 hp but Porsche decided to rename it because the facelift was so substantial and also removed the Turbo from sale, they did make around 40 cars thou and those are hyper rare and very expensive.
Conclusion, I would recommend people who are interested in these cars to go right ahead and look for and buy a 944. I would NOT recommend people to buy a Turbo thou. Personally I think theyre too much hassle for what they are. I also dont like the S2, for pretty much the same reasons. Both the Turbo and the S2 feel heavy and sluggish, they drive like big GT cars, clutch is heavy, steering is heavy, gearbox is heavy.
Personally I think a good nice N/A 163 hp 944 is the absolute best option. They feel light and nimble, like proper sportscars.
The S allegedly stands for "Super" to indicate a stronger engine, and S2 was introduced when the displacement of the 16 valve S's engine increased. As an owner I may be biased, but I agree the S2 is the best of the lot - save perhaps for track duty where the Turbo shines. Great video!
Great video and one of only ones I've seen that was properly researched regarding models and history. So many just regurgitate what they see or read elsewhere and are often wrong but clearly you're an enthusiast and got it 100% right. Well done.
I actually very much like the look of the 944, it has aged well in its older age.
I'm so happy that your doing content about these wonderful vehicles
Love the video mate, I’ve got one too in mint condition with about 2000kms on the dash. Fell in love with the car all over again every time I drive it.
Very nice Jay. I thinkn you put that together very well.
I also think that one of the most important things you mentioned, assuming the person concerned goes ahead and makes a purchase, is the associated forum. For things like this, I feel they are invaluable and members are often very highly regarded owners of the garages which specialise in whatever model you own. It's a goldmine of information, present and past.
You should also do this more often. You managed to get, in 15mins, a lot of info across in a very watchable way 👍
i remember the one that James from Top Gear drove many years ago in that cheap Porsche challenge, I always thought this and the 924 for that matter were a bit off in terms of looks. Definitely grown on me since then especially in black, they look amazing for the price!
Great video and a big Thank you!!! You hit the nail on the head with these cars about mileage. These are much better if driven and looked after. Most low mileage examples need a lot of catch up work to make them useable again.
Great content. Been salivating over a 944 for the past few years.
Nice video. Big fan of your channel. I’m looking at a S2 now, so I enjoyed and appreciated your insight. All the best.
These have always been a great looking Porsche IMHO, less cute than most 911’s at the time. A late Turbo or S2 is still high on my list
Excellent video very precise information
Keep up the good work jay
For almost 20 years I raced 944’s and a 968, and the handling balance and durability of these cars under track conditions is remarkable. If you do track them, make sure you watch the oil temps and address it with coolers if needed. Used to run dual 944 turbo oil coolers on my 968 which worked great. Transaxles can also get a bit balky when the fluid heats up, so type of cooling there is a good idea as well
Thanks for the info. I do intend to track mine and will need to do a lot of research to take care of it.
Thanks J, new format looks good. Perhaps label it a Part 2, after the driving Part 1 though, for easy reference for everyone later?
Fantastic video. Keep up the good work.
Such nice lines & proportions… beautiful 👍👀
Great video James! 👌🏼
Great buyers guide James, makes me miss my 968, which I believe was also better at resisting rust.
Excellent video again , yep definitely 163 bhp in Europe , I nearly spat my tea out when you said 143bhp 😂
Excellent overview of the 944 Jay. I love my '87 944 NA in original Guards Red paint with only 71K miles
Love my early 944, drove it to school everyday for a few years
I owned a 944 S2 3.0 in white. Loved it. Dream was always the 968 CS.
Another informative vid thanks for sharing
It still holds the largest 4 cylinders mass produced engine, whooping 3 liters!
If you can smell exhaust fumes it’s likely the tailgate seal has failed, very common.
My mum had one of these, she ragged it to death, covering 250000 miles. When she sold it the bodywork was pretty shagged but it was bought by the independent specialist that used to work on it. He said it had one of the best engines he had experienced. Mileage definitely not an issue!
I had a 2.5L 944s Ventiler which i sold a few years back i loved it the body work was trashed but mechanically (after a bit of tinkering and about £1500 spent on it) It drove really well wish i never sold it .One thing i found out while owning it was that a bit of blue smoke at very high revs is normally down too the vortex based oil air separator being gunked up a not so quick removal and clean cured the issue. Mine had not long had an engine rebuild which was down to the cam chain tensioner (which is between the cams on 16 valve models under the cam cover in the centre) wearing out which is a common problem and something to check as soon as you buy a 16v engine car ,as it can break the chain causing (as it had on my car) several bent valves hence the rebuild. Hope this helps a prospective buyer .
Great job overall Jay on a totally underrated classic. It would be cool to hear more thoughts on why you alluded to "preferring" the 944S2 (I can guess the reasons which include better overall value versus your rarer 951S and more accessible torque curve, but still it might be a cool idea for a future video, doing a compare & contrast with those two greats)
Great video. THANKS! I'd like to add that a clutch job on a turbo ( I've got an '88) , can be pretty involved. can be anywhere from $3,500 - $5,000. depending on where you source parts and which shop, if you don't wrench. Another is the belts. not sure what the exchange rate is currently. But, there are a couple of "while your in there" pieces, and that seems to be around $2,500 - $3,000. In the Los Angeles area.
Good job!
I adore my 80s BMWs, especially early model E34s, if I had to pick a none BMW car to buy, I'd definitely go for one of these 944s, would be fun picking up a 1988 model one specifically, as I already for two 1988 E34s, hehe
I remember seeing the 944 as the classic car that always came up in Autotrader Bargain buys section, normally they were £900 and in Red.
I guess those days are long gone now! Of course this would have been around 2000-2003 time
I prefer the 928/968 look, but thats just me.
Really enjoyed having a look around this 944 thanks for posting.
I’ve always wondered, when you drove the XJ220 was that the owner sat next to you?
Just bought a 88 944s and been working in it
Good video. Thanks
Fortunate enough to have a 968 which is an upgraded version of this fine car. 👍
They are fine cars. I drove a 944 in the late 80's and it was very nice. Great balance, pretty good brakes and good handling.
Hard to find 944s in good condition these days. I'd go straight to the Porsche Owners Club wherever you live and see if any members who own one want to sell first.
Make sure the car has its roll-on boot cover unit. These are usually missing and can be found at 944 breakers. Also check if the separate slip case for the detachable sunroof is present. You need this item to protect the sunroof from scratches when stored in the boot. These slip cases are extremely rare. Finally, check if the digital clock in the dash is still working. With time these clocks all die and have to be replaced by a newer one from 944 breakers.
I’d also give a recommendation for William Francis. Charlie is a really nice bloke who did extensive mechanical refurbishment work on my 997 & then sold it for me when I was ready for my next 911.
God it’s a good looking thing!
Another problem, especially on early ones, is the ancient ceramic fuses. Contact issues cause havoc with electrics. I replaced and rewired auxiliary fuse box with modern blade type which sorted the problem. From what I can remember fuel pump and DME were the main problem. Have had mine nearly 20 years... if you can find one do yourself a favour and buy it.
Just had my mx5 given a treatment of rust prevention and protection. Thanks for raising these issues and keeping cars on the road.
Unlike the Frog11....these are GORGEOUS.
I think Alex Kersten from Car Throttle is a massive fan of the 944, maybe you should do a vid with him on the topic?
I offered, he said no
Think you could have mentioned the 924S which is effectively the early 2.5l 944 without the flared wheel arches and usually at a useful discount to 944 prices. There were contemporary comments that Porsche was daft having their cheapest version actually achieve a higher top speed than its more expensive 944 cousin. I had the oil inter-cooler problem - it is actually the O rings between it and the block that start to leak, bit of a faf if you fix in situ due to the proximity of the exhaust manifold. I found the biggest issue was a leaky/rusty early fuel tank since it requires removal of the transaxle to replace - later cars had a plastic tank. At the time I coveted the 3l S2 engine which would have made it perfect.
It would be great if Porsche brought out the 944 again to be its new entry model 😃
Look for original radios in the car, that way you kbow that some radio hack has not screwed with the cars wiring!
Jay, what do you prefer to buy 991.1 gt3 rs or 991.2 gt3 manual. Please asked me this cuestion, I just saw the your video about the 991.2 manual. Love your channel, I just discover you this month.
.2 manual for me
The 944s2 is the car i want...just need a really good excuse. Like wise 15 years ago was offered one for £1200, but life and family...damnit
How dare you remind me the 80's weren't twenty years ago!
Had a 944S and S2 and ultimately a 968CS. Awesome cars. Ironic of course that the lowest point of Porsche was around 1994 when the cars they produced were the 968cs, 993 edition 911 and of course the first 911RS CS. Now we all beg to own those models shows what we buy is hype.....
The only time the AC just needs recharging is when its on a vehicle that's gonna get turned into a track car, or if the seller says "It MIGHT work with a recharge!" lol
Think I remember that when the model was introduced the 's' being for soupapes - French for valves
There's a shop in the US that makes Audi 07K 5cyl swap kits for 924 and 944. I would love a test of a 07K 944 if there's any in the UK
My 1990 S2 Cab (which I have owned for 16 years now) can be temperamental if not driven for a few weeks, biggest running / starting problems have been a dirty idle control valve, failing crankshaft sensor, alarm module & STALE fuel, turned has turned him into a kangaroo a couple of times - now I only use super unleaded.
Also had an S2 - normal unleaded worked fine. Might I suggest the renewal of all the ignition system basic parts, including new coil, leads etc. Run a 10w40 like Helix. Change the trans oil too. This will make a huge difference...
I tried the S2 many years ago and was left disappointingly underwhelmed. Still think the S2 and Turbo look quite good.
Common complaint from someone coming from a faster car, but I think you might be missing the point of these cars.
Side note, the slow acceleration combined with excellent handling is why these cars got/get modified so often. Try a faster one, they’re a lot of fun.
@@Russell_and_Rosko I take your point but the most fun car I've owned was a 205GTI. Not fast by modern standards but oh so involving.
@@resnonverba137 I’ve heard those can get some nice lift off oversteer. I think that considering the 944 platform is so stable (when the car is stock, this stability reads as:underwhelming or not involving) and all of the 944 engines sound like a misfiring tractor with an airbox full of loose hardware (regardless of what you do)…the emotions from the stock cars can be muted. Tune some oversteer into the suspension with 300+ whp and the car becomes alive. Put a proper engine in it and go chase sport bikes down in the canyons. These are highly capable cars with a ton of potential…but they’re going up in value and the rough bare tubs are still getting crushed, so our time to take advantage of their availability is dwindling.
Cheers!
Torque tube is lasting slightly over 150 000 kilometers and quite costly to replace. If you buy 944 with no record of TT maintenance, be ready to replace it soon (overhaul is possible but there very few experts who know the technology of torque tube overhaul).
Have a black 944 with 82000 MLS from new. What could it be worth now. Excellent condition overall. Rog .
I've always hankered after a 968
One mistake the 1988 base had less power, 160 but higher torque 210NM due to higher compression.
Drone view of my turbo cab czcams.com/video/0cSOPuFgRyA/video.html (sorry for the music seemed like a good idea at the time! )
The Callaway turbo..
Should have got a 944 when I bought my corrado about 20 years ago. Might aswell have bought both they were all that cheap!! Oh well 😂
I got mine from Canada.. an 83 and it was a Euro version, and i can't find one that has the same look, it was a barn sitter and the original guard red was in perfect condition, it had 68k, then I got an 83 911 SC, the 1st year of the air-cooled, but I miss the sexy curved 944 and the sunroof that came off was soo big..,
I also had a wife, that was divorced because I live in the Hamptons in NY,(a goldmine of deals on low mileage euro cars)she handed me the title to an 87 red 944 t and told me to get it the Fck off the property..
Transmission synchros, that's an issue on the 924s.
“ bubbling to the bottom” 😅😂
What age are you, 7?.
Check battery box rust first.
The further I got into the video, I felt that this more of a plea by James to my sensible self to say you'd be nuts to be going anywhere near a 944...
You'd be nuts not too.
The 944S didn’t sell well, because they were eyewateringly expensive relative to the regular 944 and much closer to a 951. The out the door price in the US in say 1987 was around $34-36k which was maybe $2k less than a 951. The gearing didn’t help, they are often geared to run at higher speeds and rpm smoothly, and so they aren’t exactly drag racers. I have one that has this gearing and easily gets 25mpg in mixed driving, but the other is geared more like a 951 and goes on cam more sharply, and gets more like 22 or 23mpg (this is US mileage). A 944S is a pocket grand tourer, intended to be a poor man’s 928, and they will run at 90 all day on the highway like a modern car would.
I wouldn’t let the contemporary view of the 16V cars dissuade an enthusiast from them, there are advantages to normal aspiration, chief among them that they are high compression cars and have better down low torque at below-boost rpms. They have the throttle response of a modern car. They are now much cheaper than a 951 or 944 S2 in the US, the second car in particular here has never been out of favor and those cars have always been somewhat pricey.
An S is also a surprisingly rare car, maybe the rarest Porsche a regular guy can drive and take care of. They didn’t make very many of them and fewer still are on the road.
The S2 had a separate oil cooler, no intercooler like the previous models...
None turbo cars dont have intercoolers...
Guys: side protection mouldings, yes or no?
For me without them the cars look much newer
I had a 944S2. Sold it. Regretted it everyday since.
3 liter 4 cylinder, largest ever?
Not even close, but was at the time
AHA!... at 12:22 he finally gets it right and says Por-SCHE! 😉
I'd rather have a boxster or miata unless this is your only car
#PorscheNoSubstitute944
A 944 primer? Grey. Always grey. 🤭
please make my 944 s2 worth more money guys
I've looked at buying one of these and found them rather "So what?" What's special about them? The chassis is nicely balanced but if that's what you want get an MX-5 or an 86/BRZ. The sills do rust badly (ironically like the Mk11 MX-5 which again is rather "So What?")
Drive one
@@marklangren3142 I have both thanks though not a turbo.
@@iconicon5642 Drive the Porsche,
The other two are boring and dull
PLEASE!!...
POR_SCHE... Two syllables... Pronounced POR-SHEH!... It's the family name... A German name... NOT French... so the 'e' at the end is pronounced!!!
I bought a 924S in 1990 because it had a mildly detuned 944 engine and I could get a much nicer car for the same money. It had a comprehensive main dealer history with a stack of bills (at four years old). It was nice to drive but one of the most unreliable cars I have ever owned, by the time it had done 50000 miles an amazing number of engine and ancillary parts had broken (plus the ECU failed). Given the issues friends with 80s 911s had I was totally put off the marque from then onwards.
Is this a PORSCHE only channel now ?
Getting fed up up of these posh beetle videos now James !!
Simple solution, the perfect type for you...don't watch.
Posh Beetle? 944? Really? Do you really think a 3.0 litre water cooled, front engined coupe is akin to an air-cooled, rear engined VW Beetle? Well, they both have x4 wheels I guess. I think you are confusing it with the Porsche 911? Either way, you've been watching way too much Clarkson - although funnily enough Jeremy is a fan of the 944 despite hating the 911. They are quite different cars you see.
@@kristiandean1885 Yep. The 944 is more of a posh Scirocco lol (j/k)
The 944 engine is Alusil. It is not cost effective to rebuild.
As an owner of a 944 Turbo over a decade I can guarantee you they are money pits. Rust buckets and money pits. Like painting the Forth Bridge, once you get to the end of your repairs, it’s time to go through them all again.
did you start out with a good example that well taken care of?
@@checkmate1996 indeed, yes.