Free yourself from the narcissist's orbit
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2022
- In today’s video I’m going to use the metaphor of the atom to describe how a scapegoat is forced to orbit the narcissistic parent instead of the parent to orbiting the child so that a strong self structure can flourish. Next, I’ll explain how the child is deprived of what she deserves- that someone else will make themselves available to her so that her nucleus has what it needs to thrive. And watch until the end because I will offer a strategy to recover your sense of entitlement to being the nucleus in your own life while expecting others to serve as electrons. This doesn’t mean devolving into a state of selfishness. On the contrary it’s actually how real person-to-person connection happens. I’ll explain why.
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I think the hardest thing about narcissistic parents is that, because they don't want you to connect with other people, that somehow becomes a way you live your life. Even now, as an adult, it takes so much to truly make friends and to truly open up to them. Even when you want to connect - it's not easy. It's fascinating to think how N parents manage to instil that in you.
Yup. They’ll often isolate you by telling you that people you’ve befriended are racist / low-class / dangerous or at least that is the bullshit I was fed by my self-loathing narcissistic “mother”.
She tries to bond with her kids through our negative experiences. Conversely, I’ve always chosen to celebrate my own daughter’s positive life events, encouraging her to remain objective and rational when encountering new people...
I never thought of it that way. Thank you for this insight.
@@onelife7247 same, my father tries to bond through negative experiences and self-denial of reality
Is like trying to live your life for you. Stil it from you. They are not capable of living their own. Like viruses and parasites
Not easy at all to connect.
was childhood "scapegoat" now am 65. Jay, I really like your metaphors and stories about people. I wish the Internet was available back then.
You are so true about the internet. Had I had the information earlier in my life!
I like to respond to the younger crowd to reinforce how things are just not going to change.....if anything.
Stay strong
@@reginapolo3357 Thanks for reinforcing.
Right?? The Internet does bring some wonderful things to the world. ❤❤❤
It's great the info is out there ❤
@@reginapolo3357i didn't understood you.
I was raised in a home with three narcs - my mother, grandmother and older sister. My sister demanded to always be celebrated. I would be excited and think “I can’t wait until I get older and I will be celebrated.” It never happened with my family. I remember when I was 19 years old I thought “OK, now it’s my turn to shine” but there was nobody there. I was all dressed up with nowhere to go. I have shined in life but it was with friends, coworkers and groups that I was a part of. My childhood life had so much sadness.
aaaah sorry you went through this. We all had bad childhoods, but you still shining bright and are a survivor. Celebrate your life and all that you are : D
@@carospereman3537 yes 😊
Mary. Yes I hear your sadness.
These celebrated monsters need to all be on one planet together!
@@klaykitchens6738 why curse the planet?
Finding safe people is where I am having trouble. After awakening from family narc and ex-husband narc abuse (and let's throw in the ex narc business partner,) I now make the world about ME and my needs and my decisions. I realized that I have myself with whom I nurture, love, and give much compassion to. I used to expect this from other people and it just isn't going to come, so love yourself in a healthy way.
same here. safe people outside of ourselves is rare
me my need choices and my decision wow it very amazing we fear to make those wow
Excellent advice!!
Hello Caro, I hear you. I use a journal read books and Ava had a therapist. Slowly, I began to learn about, and set bouderies with others. Learn what you need, your values. Then, when you feel ready- you can try people on, like a shoes to see if they fit. Decided ahead of time what your new trusted safe people's value will be. You can decide who get's to be your trusted safe friend. Write your values, needs down in a journal. You got this!
Self love.
Self parenting.
I've watched hundreds of videos on CPTSD and narcissistic abuse... and THIS one strikes me as the most concisely insightful representation of the core trauma and solution to it. I'm feeling privileged to have stumbled on Jay's CZcams channel... thank you for these gold-standard therapeutic videos you put out every week 🙏
I was just thinking the same thing after listening to this video. I think the core issue for me is the loss of connection to self. And I think after listening to this I have a better idea than I ever have before as to how this developed and why it’s so insidious to try to correct. Thank you for your comment, and for the work you share with us Jay. So very grateful.
Jay's videos are the most helpful to me of any videos dealing with CPTSD. It wasn't until his videos I was actually able to admit what I know all along; I was the scapegoat. What I still can't do is muster up the will to break the cycle. I've been close a few times but have always been forced back by circumstances. I don't want my entire life to pass me by before I am free.
What a brilliant analogy of narcissistic family dynamics . I have never been able to explain the silent but well enforced way (the scapegoated one ) was not allowed to and not expected to ever have autonomy but instead live a life of never-ending servitude to the parents' black hole of constant neediness and demand for attention . If there was any appearance of diversion from parental servitude I was cut off at the knees and literally threatened with violence and even death to keep me compliant , No contact ends up being the only way to escape this sadistic behaviour . Telling one's self that they are mentally ill and can't control their behaviour will do nothing to make your life with them more tolerable . RUN !
Wow. They even threatened you with death. I’m sorry to hear that. My “mother” and”father “ told me to kill my self and my “mother “ later told everyone in our city that I “came after her with a knife “ when she saw me attempting to cut myself. In reality she and her husband were the dangerous ones. No contact is the ONLY solution!
I relate to your comment here. Oh my - have I tried to keep mentally ill people (my ex-husband and his mother) satisfied!! Or at least try and stop them from being angry with me, punishing me, using fear, obligation and guilt to control and manipulate me.
What exercise in futility. I finally came to a point of truly no longer caring at all about how they feel, think or behave. This is my life to live. No-one can give me security and safety. I must find that in myself.
Run. That's the advice.
i love Run Run like no one try to get you and you did excellent job dear i am proud of you and i will too i do no when i know it is early much love
Ok I got away.
The narc trains the scapegoat to disconnect from their authentic self and conform to serving the narc's every need.
Finding electrons, becoming my own nucleus, and becoming less of an orbiting electron myself is like learning a new language at an advanced age. I end up being alone the majority of the time which is not very fulfilling.
OMG. I always think I have learned all I have to learn with this stuff... until your videos. This ONE is huge. It's such a great way to explain what happens in the family... and then one repeats this cycle with all other people. Only narcissistic people are comfortable with this dynamic in you, so you end up attracting the same narc. nucleus OVER and OVER and OVER again until you learn! Bravo, thanks Jay!!!
@Jason Romaine you said "and then one repeats this cycle with all other people." So effing true. It pains to say this was my life. I still can't believe that a parent would not allow a child autonomy. Probably the most cruelest thing you could do to another human, in my opinion, let alone your own child.
Amen, Jason!
@@carospereman3537 Yes. Gaslighting a child is so cruel. Making them doubt their own (correct) perceptions and losing confidence in themselves.
Jay, thank you for all the knowledge and insights you provided me when I really needed it a little over a year ago. Jay you really helped me understand what I had gone through as the scapegoat in a family run by a survivor of the Great Depression. Your insights were pivotal to helping me understand my childhood, and the ugly aftermath. So Jay, really wanted to thank you, and let you know personally how much you helped me. You are simply amazing Jay!
I’ve had such a hard time finding safe people to develop relationships with. I’ve gone between no contact and low contact with my narcissistic family for 3 years but I can’t seem to find any people to have a healthy relationship with. I’m a 40 year old single woman and my entire life is my teaching job and then being alone. I like to hike with dog on weekends. I’ve tried to find a church and attend Bible studies and serve on other types of charity groups but the people don’t seem to either have time for me or want anything to do with me. It’s really difficult feeling like I am totally alone in the world. I am a kind funny and down to earth person. Why is it so hard to find my people?
Martial arts, health clubs, are a great outlet. Yoga classes, cycling classes, jiu jitsu, Muay Thai all have alot of ppl your age training to have fun and form friendships. Plus you get healthy!
It was a couple years after my lightbulb moment before I found a friend, which sounds bizarre, but you know what I mean. You just have to be happy alone and people will appear. I'm 59 and alone. I have one female friend, and a married couple who I have known for 20 years. That's it, and I'm grateful to have those people. Interestingly I have good acquaintances overseas- it seems that when I am continents away from 'home' everything changes completely. It also takes us a long time to learn that it's okay to reach out to relative strangers. The first few times I reached out and asked an acquaintance or charity committee member out for lunch or whatever I was astonished that they accepted. I now make a point of meeting up with someone once a week, which can be hard. We are so ingrained that we are worthless, and for me I never learned as a teen how normal socialising works. My father started getting friendly with my friends when we were 12 and that was the end of having friends. It's tough.
I have actually started working part time as a server for a catering company just to get out amongst people, and I find myself watching party attendees make conversation seemingly effortlessly. Sorry to have gone on and on, but I know what you mean- I'm 58, so you have lots of time yet to develop a social network even though it seems hopeless right now.
@Cj Johnson aww right back at you! 🐕😊. Thank goodness for dogs!
@Cj Johnson me too
@@ClaytonMMA yes all good suggestions. I also think superficial friendships of areas of shared interest is a good way to have company. I don’t have a better phrase- and I mean it respectfully.
Excellent video and excellent analogy. I think a scapegoat can develop symptoms of what they call Borderline Personality Disorder. The feelings of abandonment and everything else you mentioned are typical of those who have it. I felt totally lost at sea without a rudder lacking any direction whatsoever and it was extremely frightening. I had two very narcissistic parents who hated me and wanted me to kill my self. I don’t know if you’re familiar with a therapist named Rebecca Mandeville. She is licensed and practicing in California. She specializes in family scapegoating and is calling it ‘Family Scapegoat Abuse Syndrome ‘. She says that she’s trying to get this diagnosis in the DSM someday. Family scapegoating seems to be a topic that is rarely talked about. I think that a lot of suicides could be caused by it. I was chronically suicidal for over half of my 62 years of life. I don’t know how I’m alive but thanks to people like you, Jay, I have a little hope for recovery.
you got this my dear see you came so far dear you have your power on you so ask what you want in life wait for it be patient with yourself my dear much love
I put a 30 cal. bullet through my chest at 16. Was driven to it by my reptile of a father. When I moved far away he chose another brother as the new scapegoat. His mistake, now I have someone else who sees who he really is. I'm 64 now and just starting to heal from the evil this bastard did to me as a child.
I love this analogy! It really helps describes how I feel, how I have trouble viewing the world from my perspective and how I've taken on the perspective of my parents.
Realizing how much space my parents have taken up in my head, I have been working on finding ways to kick them out.
All of a sudden my mom decided that I needed to exchange texts with her daily, since I live so far away on my own. I said no. I'm in my 50s. She said that I needed to do this to ease her worry, which is more important than my independence. She's still in my head so much that I have a hard time not buying into feeling like I am selfish if I don't help ease her worry . Her argument is always "I do so much for you and don't ask for as much as other parents I know, why can't you do this one thing for me?"
Thankfully, I reconnected with a friend recently that finally validated me in seeing my how manipulative my mom was being and how she was not allowing me to have any boundaries.
My husband started spending a lot of time with his friends from childhood whom I had never met or heard of before. Sometime last month I just woke up and asked to see his phone to check the time. He handed it to me and it opened into WhatsApp, where I discovered he had been sending naked photos of himself to someone. When he realized he had handed me his unlocked phone, he pounced on me, snatched his phone back, and smashed it on the floor, but I had already seen it. As it turns out, he'd been chatting with someone but I decided not to question him. I wasn't sure how to react cause I didn't even get a chance to know who he was texting on the other end. I saw a touching story here of how a someone found out her husband was cheating, I decided to contact the hacker she recommended through a link she posted here, he cloned my husband's phone without physically touching it. All I did was send his phone number to him and through a remote link sent to my mail, I was able to access all of his texts, emails, Facebook and Instagram chats, real-time call listening and his long deleted messages as if the phone was physically with me after reading his chats I found out he was texting a younger woman in his office and it was clear that they regularly had sex, I have no idea how long he has been doing this cause they had developed an emotional connection. Perhaps, you are in a similar situation and you need help or you just crave that extra teeny bit of closure, you can get in touch with him on Instagram instagram.com/syb_tools/
From all your comments I've read (I think it's been half a year since I've subscribed Jay's channel) I have a strong feeling of you being very kind, thoughtful and genuine person. It breaks my heart to see that someone manipulates you and makes you feel that you are the bad one. And of course your mother would say that she knows you better (and that means the only option - "know better how bad you are) than some stranger on the internet. Maybe I am a stranger and barely know you, but she doesn't know you at all. She is only interested to coerce somebody out there to carry her pathological projection. Honestly, I am so angry at her. Seeing how narcissist is trying to scapegoat a kindhearted person makes my blood boil.
@@RK-qs5dy Thank you for all of your kind words 💕. I have really appreciated your comments throughout the videos. You seem like a very thoughtful and caring person and your comments have always helped me to feel supported. I have thought a lot about what you said about introjection. It has helped me to understand that I feel like I was indoctrinated into my parents belief system and I need to be deprogrammed. I just caught a couple older comments from you that I had missed. I'm so glad we can help each other by sharing in the comments. I also caught a recommendation from you about taking D3 and K2. Funny, I had just started taking that before I read your comment. I look forward to sharing more in Jay's future videos ☺️.
Wow! This started happening to me in my 50's too. Abusive neglectful Mom went from "could care less" to constant texting/ phone calls that lasted for hours. She called late at night when she knew i was sleeping, durring work, with all made up/ dramatic scenarios/fake illnesses. Every week she claimed how she "never hears" from me when I repeatedly told her we spoke/texted for hours last week. Her's was a more demanding "what if I die?" "You should be constantly checking on me". I was getting so much anxiety every time the phone rang. Finally I told her firmly but respectfully i was drawing a boundary on this subject and the very next day my phone blew up again with texts about more fake illnesses. I blocked her # due to her lies, inability to have empathy for what she was doing to me nor respect for my time. She called the police on me 3 weeks later for a "wellness check" told them she hadn't heard from me in over 7 months!. I had to talk to her over the phone at the police station via 2 way with her and the detective.She told me it was the law in her "senior community" that I must call her daily. I can't anymore..im done. Anyone still reading this.? Don't waste any more of your precious life and time on these lost souls..🕊
@@eppyvonpeppy5213 So sorry you are dealing with this! This definitely sounds more extreme than my situation. My mom holds back some on her manipulation when she knows it's not going to work. My parents will wait for me to call them before they let me know they had an illness or an accident. They'll say they didn't want to worry me and everyone else around them have been so helpful and concerned. But I know the people around them are under the impression that they have neglectful children.
I do wonder about the laws. Many children of the elderly don't have the time or financial ability to care for their parents. And, there are the children that have been physically and/or emotionally abused by their parents. Why would they be expected to relive the trauma again?
All the best to you 💕
Trying to do this on their own, "No supporting structure" "The emptyness the child feels" . The consequences of doing that is thst of being no one to nobody. And I think that is where grief, rage and terror live or maybe hide
Jay, you teach me so, so much 😊
You noticed that so called scapegoats(we are the chosen ones) are simply brilliant gifted and extraordinaire!joire de vive!
This is SO good and incredibly helpful. Thank you! In recovery I have been fortunate enough to find a "safe" therapist, but wow the "safe" friends seem to completely escape me. Where are they? :-) Hoping I get to experience this in my lifetime.
count me here i am interested in friendship my dear
Let go of negativity-let go of negativity-let go of negativity-its negativity that attracks us to these kind of marriages-please learn to be positve!
The Orbits in an actual drawing look to go away and then come near and shoot out the other way. I know that the orbits are circular (Bio Major). BUT MY MOM used to draw me IN (SUCK ME IN) and then SHOOT ME OUT! Then draw me in and SHOOT ME OUT! It was REALLY HARD to escape her WRATH!
They draw you in with pathetic Covert Narc stories of being sick and when you respond with a gesture of genuine love, it's met with THE SILENT TREATMENT. Insane. You're damned if you do and damned if you don't.
This analogy really helped me to figure out the mood I am in because I have a strong background of chemistry. This is really brilliant. Thank you!
Same here. But it's not exactly an accurate model of an atom... 😂
Thank you for all you do to offer education and healing for those of us who want to use this valuable information to validate our experiences of abuse, harm and deception in the hands of those we trust. I’m so grateful for these videos teaching steps to respect & honor my life for the first time.
The deception is hard to believe and deal with isn’t it? It’s like you thought you had a family but you really had, at least for me, mortal enemies. Both of my parents scapegoated me but they got the entire family and extended family to do it too. They even tried to get the large city we lived in to believe their lies. Thanks to people like Jay for setting my mind straight about these people and their games.
@@christar9527 yes the word deception rang out loud to me also. Very validating
Your talks are life-saving Dr. Reid, bless you ❤️
True, TRUTH!
Amazing insight.
Once you leave as an adult you reconnect w yourself, and may be alone for a while but soon find safe people.
Thanks, Dr. Jay. I use to feel sick because of this displacement. The diagram and explanation are making it easy to center myself regardless of what my narcissistic mother wants. She deprived me , and now, she is facing the same deprivation once I'm healing and recognizing my power. At least I'm not with her in that sick cycle anymore.
Wow, yes, thank you for this very powerful analogy of the narcissistic abuse survivor’s experience that so many of us here can relate to as children of narcissistic parents or spouses to narcissistic partners. Having been both, this explanation really helps make sense of what happened as well as give a model going forward to developing healthy safe relationships with others. Its essential to have meaningful connection with oneself in order to find those safe people and avoid and protect oneself from toxic unhealthy relationships. It does at first sometimes feel very uncomfortable and awkward for the survivor to focus on oneself and be the center of one’s own life due to the learned behaviors that survivor was forced to engage in during the abuse. Self-compassion and patience with oneself are so very key in healing when we get frustrated with ourselves in this process. When all you have ever known is this toxic abuse dynamic, it’s very understandable that it takes time to demystify what happened and release that guilt, shame and blame. As well as not feel bad about taking up that center stage in one’s own life and not giving it to another toxic person and repeating that unhealthy behavior pattern. It’s a process of unlearning and learning that occurs simultaneously, we have to replace those unhealthy behaviors with healthier ones by establishing healthy boundaries. Setting healthy boundaries can sometimes feel like learning a foreign language later in life for abuse survivors. It really requires a great deal of patience with oneself and building up that sense of self-competence. This really needs to be part of educational curriculum at schools. I have found this information so invaluable in being a supportive parent to my sons who have to cope with narcissistic behaviors of their father. Divorce has been challenging but very helpful in that I can now safely model healthy boundaries and safe relationship dynamics for him. I am still learning and make mistakes but feel like I can be a ‘good enough’ parent to my sons, which helps reinforce and build up my confidence in my capacity for healthy relationships. I believe that we have the capacity to learn healthy relationship dynamics at any age. It’s essential that we let ourselves experience our feelings of grief in order to let go of the old ineffective learned behaviors. In this way we can live fulfilling meaningful lives and experience joy and peace again! Thank you for all of your insights, no one else seems to cover these aspects of narcissistic abuse and provide these tools for healing in the way that you do! 🙏💜
Good for you for for holding on to your experience ✊🏼💃🏻👏🏼👏🏼🥂
My husband started spending a lot of time with his friends from childhood whom I had never met or heard of before. Sometime last month I just woke up and asked to see his phone to check the time. He handed it to me and it opened into WhatsApp, where I discovered he had been sending naked photos of himself to someone. When he realized he had handed me his unlocked phone, he pounced on me, snatched his phone back, and smashed it on the floor, but I had already seen it. As it turns out, he'd been chatting with someone but I decided not to question him. I wasn't sure how to react cause I didn't even get a chance to know who he was texting on the other end. I saw a touching story here of how a someone found out her husband was cheating, I decided to contact the hacker she recommended through a link she posted here, he cloned my husband's phone without physically touching it. All I did was send his phone number to him and through a remote link sent to my mail, I was able to access all of his texts, emails, Facebook and Instagram chats, real-time call listening and his long deleted messages as if the phone was physically with me after reading his chats I found out he was texting a younger woman in his office and it was clear that they regularly had sex, I have no idea how long he has been doing this cause they had developed an emotional connection. Perhaps, you are in a similar situation and you need help or you just crave that extra teeny bit of closure, you can get in touch with him on Instagram instagram.com/syb_tools/
Cat b. I really know what you are talking about… I have daughters…
@@melliecrann-gaoth4789 Me & My Ex Narc was Married for 12years with Children. I did all my possible best to be faithful to him and I always made my mind that I want to be the best house wife as that what I dream since college days. Nothing work out when you’re with a narcissist, My narc Ex still went ahead by threatening to file a divorce and take custody of our children because I caught him severally cheating with different lady and even my friend I also knew a lot of illegal stuffs he does and how addicted he’s to alcohol. I had no choice , My Nanny told me about this Private Investigator which is also American Spy Guy he’s expert in tapping phone and web without leaving a trace,He got into my Husband phone and drives. I found Dirty proofs, real dirty things. All deleted Messages, chats, Videos, Call history from 12years back where unveiled to me. This proofs where helpful cos he worked my papers for me and now I can stay with my child and have a good job. Don’t let your narcissistic partner abuse you no more, follow him on Instagram
Www.instagram.com/syb_tools/
@@melliecrann-gaoth4789 it’s so very challenging trying to take care of our children, but it’s so important that we do our best. It does make things meaningful. My sons and your daughters really need us. You are more than ‘good enough’💜🙏
Thank you! 🍀🍀🍀🌻🌻🌻🌻🌻
Whenever i try to live my life, NOT only family but other narcissists that force themself into my orbit and it drives me nuts.
Alone and depressed.
Or
Intruded on and feeling their Energy overtake me is terrible nightmare.
Their "this is the way it is no matter what you say."
Even as an adult child, i am very muted and dull even if i have alot going for me... my mind feels like a jello clutter overwhelmed tension and nervous.
This is such a great and powerful analogy. When I took Biology, I thought about how many metaphors could be worked out within cellular systems and also body systems and how they work together. This was so great. I think humans are story beings and metaphors get to a deeper level than when delivered with flat explanations.
As I continue watching and processing these videos, such a fast internal change… and still I know so much more to go, but I’m already so far ahead of where I was before finding you. . Such a new, more relaxed energy… this is because ever since I was little, Ive been asking “why”… a strong introspector and investigator since 5… was able to read books in high school library of my own choosing finally but couldn’t bring home (before that my dad had contacted school librarians saying he had to approve all books… after he found a Ramona book… after I’d won a prize in reading which he told me I must have cheated on… I didn’t) … then after high school, psychology, philosophy… psychology studies and articles, many, many CZcams videos…. and what you are illuminating is what I’ve been looking for my whole life… these specific understandings. Meaning, I have learned a lot from studying all I’ve studied and contemplated from study and introspection…. but this is exactly what I’ve been searching to find and understand my whole life. And your genius in this area, it just goes down so smooth and Im drinking and drinking it in. It’s a lot for my whole system, spirit , psyche to process that Im hardly sleeping at night 😂 it’s like my whole internal self is re-arranging and relaxing into all these new understandings. So unexpected and so wonderful and joyous that as I was continuing my searching journey (learning lots of stuff but not exactly what I was looking for and needed) that I stumbled on Aladdin’s cave of jewels…a treasure trove! What a great year this is going yo be for me! Another metaphor that is so cute that I keep thinking of is seeing all us scapegoats in treacherous terrain, confused and hurting/messed up and you in a Moses type outfit-saying hey guys this is what’s up and here’s the way out of here. You are the Scapegoat Guide to better places… internally and externally. Sorry for all the gushing 🤣… I just feel SO grateful… it’s just spilling out of me! Now that I’ve found the treasure of understanding I’ve always been looking for, I’m going to go ahead and write ✍️ these experiences out so I NEVER have to think or speak of them again unless I want to for a truly good reason -just use the lessons instead! Once written, the healing part will be to a) attach a silver lining lesson to each and every event b) it will feel so good because:.. writing about it feels like all this pain, what I went through wont be “forgotten”… mining the meaning… like writing about it, they wont just get away with it… like it wont have to live in my head or energy,.. I won’t have to hold on to it in fear my inner child went through that for nothing-a proper memorial/honor to what I went through and move on to new and happy/happier chapters. 📕 actually, a new book! Once I write about it, I don’t think I’ll ever want to even speak about it again. I’m not sure yet… but that’s what I’m thinking… just put the lessons into art and song instead. You’re the best, Jay. The absolute best on this topic. A whole other level of understanding. What’s funny and so wonderful is, the part of me that’s already healed is the part of “will anyone ever GET what I went through… will anyone understand… can my life experience ever feel understood by another human being on this planet. Well, You understand. And on a level of “why” and “how” that I am just now learning… meaning, I knew the facts of what they did, I learned a lot about personality disorders and stuff, but again, the specific targeted scapegoat stuff is just so expansive and healing. Loving understanding and from experience. And to see how all the scapegoats in the comments are being healed with the balm of truth too. It’s just amazing. You’re amazing. Thank you! 🎉🌊⛵️🌊
This so clearly explains why the core need to heal from being raised by a narcissistic parent is for you to FINALLY be focused on, for once, in your literal ENTIRE life. Important that that focus is of a positive nature, because no doubt a narcissistic parent has allowed you to be focused on but only in a negative way, or you were punished in some way if the narcissistic parent found out you were getting positive attention anywhere. It also makes clear how traumatic it is when people will not let that happen for you and wrongly label you as being narcissistic for needing this, when you have literally never had it. Without having lived the experience or seeing a video like this, they just see someone needing to be the focus of their own life, to be focused on for once, and to them it looks like the narcissistic parents behavior. The difference is the parent lived in the center their whole lives, while the child never has. This is also why other people trying to center themselves while you are trying to address this core wound and finally put yourself at the center of your own life causes additional traumatic injury.
I really like your book "Growing up as the scapegoat to narcissistic parents a guide to healing." I cried and laughed and cried again from page 1. I resonate so deeply to everything.
I like the feeling I get from your response.
I really love this video, Jay. Life on earth is fairly simple and expresses itself over and over in the same patterns. You clearly showed how trauma jars us out of these patterns, out of the flow of life. 🙏
My brother was the scapegoat by our narcissistic father, but even though my dad saw me as the golden child, I was still abused by him at times. My parents split when we were kids. At my moms, my brother was the favourite. My mom was emotionally incestuous with my brother to an extent. My poor brother has never recovered from the dysfunction. My mom was ambivalent towards me, mostly neglectful, she loved to parenting mebut she wasn’t overtly abusive like our dad. She just always wanted to be the victim. Till this day she will complain and complain and complain. I remember her calling me one time to tell me how tired she was, I was home with a newborn baby and hadn’t slept since coming home from the hospital!!! But it was still all about her
You're doing such important work here, thank you
This was a powerful metaphor, thank you so much for this. When I saw the chart of what a healthy orbit looked like, it felt it in my body and my soul longed for that type of surrounding and how safe and nice that would be, and I know it is something Im working on and that it is coming my way. Actual peace & respect is not far, and your videos are helping tremendously in the mean time, I can't thank you enough.
Thank you, Jay!
Your analogies are so spot-on. Gained a different and valuable way to understand things, yet again.
Thank you, I started a job again and unfortunately have been duped into a narcs nucleus. But I can shake it off and remember to realign with myself. I know the ‘or else’ feeling, somewhat it’s from the person but a lot from myself. I know I need to remember that I am good enough and I’m not here to just fulfill someone else’s every need.
Seeing this again and reminded to be totally ok with the boundaries ive set at work, to be comfortable with the discomfort that radiates through the narcissitic workplace due to my being firm in those boundaries. The toxicity is all just around me, but its not my property. I need to remain in the center of MY universe. Thank you once again!
Another one here! She had me under her control for 27 years. I left it all behind last year and started facing the trauma. Life's been a struggle since then, and the only way I can function is by acting like my abuser in social situations to feel 'normal.' Expressing anger becomes a need, and mimicking her is my only way to connect with others. Saying 'hi' is the hardest, but no one gets it. Feels like I'm stuck in the causality loop, a prisoner of my past.
perfect, "their malevolent view of us". and we had no idea of that fact and no defenses.
In Chinese culture, where I came from, parents are gods. My own situation was probably on the extreme side but certainly not rare. Just imagine the how many more people suffer narcissistic abuse in a hierarchical society. I hope the knowledge Jay shares here reach them.
Once again you have put words to my experience: agonizing, profound suffering, traumatically dislodged, intense & intolerable, harrowing, catastrophically alone, malevolent view. This was my experience, and you made it ok for me to feel that. It was really that bad. I’m not making it up. I’m not exaggerating it. Someone else felt it too. Thank you for ALWAYS validating my experience.
Jay I love your insights. After four years of being in recovery from narcissistic abuse I am finding it hard to find these safe people you talk about. What am I doing wrong?
Right there with you.
you didnt do any wrong there are jay videos in which describes where you need patience because to our survival what we want is out comfort .....consider like this we abandon ourselves(child) to survive so in order to this child think as caring family we need patience our full attention this look like being able to meet our need making decision which are safe and feel as seen heard ......being parent to our selves the attraction of any human being which are safe resonate when we resonate ourselves with our inner child dear much love dear
I have referred to my dad as the sun and I was a little dark moon orbiting around him, only she’d light on when it served him. He also felt like a black hole that would suck me in and it was never enough and I would get swallowed up and disappear from my own life. When he died, my identity was that I was only his daughter and nothing else. I had no idea who I was without him and in relation to him. My planetary metaphor really lines up with Jay’s atomic metaphor. I am becoming more aware when people have that sun and black hole energy and starting to chose differently. This videos nailed my experience and articulated for me on a way I couldn’t. Thank you!!
People giving to you unconditionally because it feels good to them to give to you versus receiving from a parent conditionally and then expecting a tit for tat back 💙💙💙 powerful videos
Brilliant. Thanks Jay. Visual metaphors are the best for me.
That makes me understand what happened as a boy. I stopped singing and putting on plays with my sister as a young boy. I couldn’t be the center…
All i remember is starting to feel enormous despair, shame, etc at a certain age. I think it was related to my pollyanna enabler LMFT mother constantly leaving me around my covert narc father, who treated me as an embarrassment not worth talking about or to.
I think I finally understand interdependency. Thank you!
The atom metaphor and the ability to change roles is something I’ve struggled to put into words. Healthy folks CHOOSE to change roles, for narcs however, having to give up being the center equals defeat.
My safe friend has really been a game changer....safe people are awesome.
Thanks for this. This is my life & my existence. Reading “Codependent No More” and it’s amazing. This video is amazing too. I am my moms scapegoat. Tiring
Yeah i still go to support groups for survivors of childhood trauma and unfortunately there can be people who developed strong narc traits as a result to their childhood trauma and they are there, and its something us survivors who are empaths have to navigate. When someone really starts hogging the time for fellowship after the meeting, or when its hard to get a word in, it can trigger wounds from the scapegoat time growing up which was 18 years of that, and specially 2 years alone with the narc parent without any other family member aroudn where the abuse got rampant . A lot of my recovery initially was boundaries assertivity speaking up communicating and seeing if people are available for me as a person healing from basically narc abuse and had to put a parent first atleast pretend to in order to survive or else they would throw a tantrum. I do advocate in these situations for myself like hey, its hard to get a word in, or try to make it a hang out where I can participate and show up as my authentic self. A lot of narc people are even threated by authenticity, and they also hog, and it can be hard to get a word in. I have tools today to advocate for myself or i can just leave that day and go a next one when there isnt a narc hogging, or atleast not as bad. Its important to be in places where my needs matter and they can get met, before, i had to be in places and not even bring my needs , or put everyone else's before mine. Like in my family of origin, thats very traumatizing message to give a child. So recovery is having the self-respect, boundaries and advocacy to know my needs matter and so do my personal bill of rights and i can bring them to relationships, and have relationships where they matter, because today they matter to me, and i look for emotionally available relationships. Also trying to keep selfcompassion towards myself in this journey
I could not even handle a recovery group. To many people and creepy dynamics.
@@mamaJmama thank you jessica strangely i find this validating.. specially if were survivors of narc abuse there will be narcs there and trying to control dynamics. It can be tricky to navigate and I really like to keep healthy boundaries, but there are the guru types, that need to bring it down one or two. Unfortunately they are enabled at times. How have you gone about your recovery?
Thank you, I’ve never felt seen nor understood until we met on you tube.
Wow, thanks for the great analogy. It really makes it so clear and I love the compound aspect too.
This is such an incredible explanation of how it feels to be so terribly alone without any support out in the world at all
Jay Reid, this one is lifechanging!!! This explaination is EVERYTHING!!!
Thank you so much for your work Jay, I want to download the e book and I cannot seem to make that happen no matter how hard I try. I can't click it or get it to open. I desperately need your help, I have 2 trauma counselors but unless someone has experienced it, it is a near impossibility to get your nervous system or your beliefs rewired and even knowing where to begin- it's like an all encompassing octupus of evil with growing tentacles that wrap you into a perpetual bind of hell, hypervigilance and untreatable depression and grief. It never stops when it's coming from your family, even with no contact.
I really really really really love this explanation!!
It just shows how utterly pointless so much of the advice is, that puts pressure on the victim to change, when really they don't need to change at all, their environment needs to change.
There is no way to be healthy around highly dysfunctional people - they will punish you for that.
The change is 'not within', it's really just seeing that these people will never give what you need.
But finding these safe people is VERY VERY DIFFICULT!!
Such a great example Jay, the nucleus that is
Really helpful. Thank you Jay.
Ultimately man should not ask what the meaning of his life is. But rather, must recognize that it is he who is asked.
Brilliant Jay, thank you! ❤️
I'm used to be the scapegoat in this family-not anymore-ILL GO DOWN FIGHTING BACK!!!!
take care my dear Jay and all Us.
I love this analogy 💖💖
Dear Dr. Reid, THANK YOU so much for your informative, engaging, and reassuring videos. I have found no other source of valuable information on this topic.I so appreciate your delivering this valuable insight, with such a high degree of empathy, insight, and clarity. Also, your unique level of humanity and humility is admirable and rare. As far as future topics, I would be very interested in hearing you address the attitudes of adult siblings (as well as second-generation nieces and nephews) of the scapegoated child. There are many of us who continued to be slighted and denigrated in a mostly covert fashion. For example, by being continually ignored, dismissed, and slighted, the adult scapegoat is subject to treatment as a fourth-class citizen. Given the adult siblings' focus on each others' achievements, looks, abilities, children, etc., the adult scapegoat is forced to choose: They can either accept their familial role as an inferior loser-- or they can instead create familial ties among friends who accept and appreciate them for their unique selves. Again, THANK YOU.
Thank you for this analogy. Very good and helpful!
Thanks Jay!
This was a really good analogy.
I love your work and comment all the time. What if you got the message that the narc/ psychopath didn't want you and you move on with your life because then you realize that they were dangerous and crazy and you are relieved that you are "set free", but *then* the narcopath has flying monkeys and still harrasses you by proxy? How do you keep their attempts at getting your attention from ... getting your attention? (Does that make sense?) All I want is to be the center of my own universe (in fact, I suspect the fact that I was so confident and self-assured was what triggered this family member .. it was an affront to them?) but a narcopathic relative does not want that. They want me to keep being pulled into theirs. It hurt to be discarded, it did, but when their mask dropped I was not offended to be "discarded" by such a person, I would never knowingly invest into someone who was evil. Can you address these sorts of scenarios further?
Brilliant sub atomic metaphors ❤
Wonderful thank you
Absolutely brilliant metaphore: clear and very helpful. 👏👏Thank you
Great! Thx Jay.
Thank you!
I like your videos very much. My situ is complex, deep seated patterns. Scapegoat is a new frame for my life experience but it makes sense. I think about your online class & FB.
Good analogy, Jay 👍 (Einstein would be proud) 😄
Very helpful!
Thank you
Look . You just drive me so well that it scares me and it's hard to face but I just realized that I've been living in a totally different reality and now I understand why people think I'm crazy. No winder l
I remember when I was about 12 or 13 and realize that it's wierd how I live as a supporting character in my own life. I always put others to be the mein characters. It's a child way to realize this concept. xD
I guess whatever screwed up screwing we get as infants must somehow help set us up for this NIGHTMARE RIDE!!!!
Its so shit I was in isolation for a couple of years i was shattered by a narcissist and learnt all about it went through so much pain and bulit myself back up and got confident, then I started a course this lady called me a show off, i explained, no I love what I do. I do what makes me happy then I was explaining myself why I ware make up because she asked me why I ware make up. I went home and though, why am i explaining myself to a stranger, and to not interact with this woman ever again, she was all over my social media and came to a private class I was having and called me a synic. I left didnt say godbye and blocked her on social media. I avoided her as much as possible in class. She triggered me and I had to spend so much time learning boundrys and lines to say if she insulted me again. I felt like another narc is wanting to swap realitys and take my good energy in exchage for her shit energy. No way f--- off.
I have always described myself as an electron so weird
Zur Zeit genieße es, Nukleus ohne Elektronen zu sein.
I think I just realised what university buildings/administration do to me - I start gravitating towards being an electron around them
I grew up in a family of chemists. Initially I was the lost child, morphing into the scape goat after the original scapegoat had moved out. I love the analogy of the atom. One could go a step further and describe a narcissist is "Nobel gas". (Nobel they certainly think they are) The previous and aptly name of elements in this group was "inert gas"). They don't react easily with other elements and keep their electrons to themselves. They have a low boiling point and are not easy to grab, due to being gas at normal temperature. The only part of the description that doesn't match is that they are not poisonous to humans (except for radon), but maybe science will disprove this in future.
Thank you. Your material is always so informative, validating and helpful. I feel like I am in the nucleus of my life. And I have a friend and a therapist but no partner. My question is how do I know if I am a good enough parent to my children. I am divorced and the relationship with their dad is acrimonious.
for the fact asking this question make you good enough parent to your children because being curious and causing effect so my dear you are dear much love
Moira Bij- For so many of us that’s the big Q : Some ideas for parenting - with children it’s connection first and correction second. Also the more connecting the less “ correcting” is needed. It’s loving discipline. Super Nanny and those TV parenting shows with lots of star charts etc. They are not the way to go. That’s just too black & white. Of course we do need standards and boundaries. Also 7/10 is called good enough parenting. So if a parent can manage 7 out of 10 times to be in in a way that is supportive to your child’s social and emotional development in everyday life- you’re absolutely flying! Good enough parenting is what is written about as the healthy, loving, allowing ourselves be human, our kids don’t owe us and the rest parenting. Also one’s own emotional regulation is very important. Basic self care, food and rest is important for this. Taking a breath when you feel your getting wound up by the kids. I go to bed earlier than I used to, I listen to stuff like Insight Timer app. Meditation, talks etc. This is more nourishing and restful for me than trying to watch tv as some down time. Another one is I write/ journal/ scribble out loads of cr•• out of my head. I have a little poster It says Love never Fails. I think of this with my kids. And yes they will test us etc. And others may try to undermine us - that’s often one of the biggest challenges post divorce/ separation
with the parenting stuff too. The chores- well I never catch up!
Go well, one step at a time. Give yourself little words of encouragement, just like the ones for your kids. Good girl you got this 😊
Moira Bij- Circle of Security it’s a parenting programme. I only know it by name, a woman told me she found it really helpful. Also if you Google one thing, then other useful information may follow.
@@melliecrann-gaoth4789 , thank for your reply here. I see my children every weekend and during holidays. They live with their dad and grandma during the week a they attend school in that area. I believe that I have self awareness and healthy boundaries to be a good enough parent. I talk to my children when they are with meet, employ mild but firm discipline and just teach them all the lessons I have learnt from life. They know that I love them very much. Btw, they are a boy and girl twins of 9 years old. My previous ones.
@@melliecrann-gaoth4789 , I will have a look at your suggestion for sure. Thank you also for your comment. I appreciate it.
Jay titles "orbit" & may 15, 2022 was a lunar eclipse day 🎉😂!
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👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
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Narcsistc p keep victims in secret relation ,it is difficult for victims to b normal with othrs and communicate withem easily ,narcsts behave badly intentionally and create confusion
Interesting video, thank you. Wonder what exactly means and how to understand, what meaning you put in words - “their inner sense of worthlessness” - how they measure worth? What a markers are? What standards are?
They measure worth in terms of $$$$. My father has constantly berated me, "You don't make enough money" even when he came to visit me after I moved from San Francisco to work as a journalist in Paris. Yes, Paris... FRANCE! He never acknowledged my career growth or ability as a writer or resourcefulness to move all on my own to a foreign country and learn how to speak French to survive, which I have not only done but flourished since I'm still here 20 years later. He's a stockbroker and has made a fortune but has always been miserable at the core. My brother is always buying the latest super-expensive high-status gadgets, tech devices, bicycles, sports gear, etc. while my sister is quite a compulsive shopper and hoarder. She lives in a huge house but it's packed to the ceiling with crap. As the scapegoat, early on I evolved to value people, books and new experiences over material things, thus I could easily sell everything and move abroad with 2 suitcases and my beloved cat. Best decision I ever made. At the time, I told myself, "If I come home at night and have Bisou-Bisou there to go to sleep at night next to my head on my pillow, it will feel like HOME."
@@firehorse9996 Thank you for a reply. Money feels play a role of course but Something tells me that it goes deeper, something more in to it.
For example my father abused me for earning too much money and sabotage my career - program me to failure. I do not understand what wrong with such people. Feels it could be connected more from what source they derive pleasure. Control, dominance, following dogmas. Do meet spiritual altruistic narcissists who screw for not following their dogmas not being part of their gang. Very confusing. Or as another example - uber pacifists who abuse and bait me for even were daring to hurt a fly. All for the people you know, for being selfish not sacrificing myself for their pet group, not living in their utopia, for not obeying their hierarchy and list goes on and on. Competition, jealousy, envy. I personally do not understand what feeling of worthlessness they have. There is concept of self-centeredness of the brain which considers anyone above doing better - as bad and unjust and unfair who has to be punished and pulled down, and sees anyone below as looser who deserves humiliation and abuse. How to deal with all that?
It seems to me they value others making them feel good about themselves over everything else. They devalue others that do better than them because it makes them feel less than. But, as their child, it's a double bind. They need you to do well enough to make them look good.
@@goldieh7121 I do not understand, they put so much value in to things that I do not understand. I saw celebrities who will kill and die for being on stage in spot light receiving applauds - does it make ppl feel good? I do not understand. In case of children they often use copout as covertly destroy child, paint child black and then play victim of horrible child and play savior of such a bad seed so they do not need child doing well, even spin abuse as PUNISHMENT for some crimes against narcissists or pet dogmas, if punishment they on right side and have no other option in the name of safety, peace, love, people, community, world, god, soul, put here any lofty ideal or buzzword to “correct” with violence bad seed on RIGHT path, save his or her soul you know. Does that mental gymnastics makes them feel good? I do not get it
@@blackduck9867 I know my parents love people who tell my parents how great they are and behave how my parents think they should. If someone sets any boundaries with my parents, they consider that person an enemy. That's just my experience.
Very enlightening but not clear what one is to do about it.
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The click here button appears for only one second. Recommend you change it to ten.
Couldn't stop staring at your lips.