People don't realize the torture of being related to these people. They're passive aggressive, full of guilt trips, and play mind games frequently. They always act like victims too.
If you challenge them, they're either passive aggressive or a complete utter martyr, you can't ever win with them! It's irritating frustrating and upsetting. The stuff they come out with is unbelievable
Listen to us and your gut. We're here for you just leave and don't say a word. He's probably watching your activities on here. It's real! We're all telling the story in hope to save someone from the bone wrenching agony they cause you and everyone else. Leave, hide get safe. X
I feel for you, I left mine after 13 awful years ...he made me afraid to leave all the years before but I finally pushed myself. I'm healing now. Hope you take care of yourself♡♡♡♡♡
Yeah, they are passive to make you frustrated and the narcissistic supply comes when you are crawling in the dust for them/nagging them. Then you see them enjoying it. Thats when the smirk comes. When you are begging them for smthn.
People with unhealed wounds, trauma, codependency etc attract narcissists like magnets. When we work on our own issues and heal then we will no longer fall into the pattern and won't attract them that way anymore. I'm on my healing journey. I wish you all the best!!
@@sfletch3042 I disagree. Even many healthy and balanced people have fallen victims to these abusers, and narcs often target those who seem to have it all together. They hate it when others are healthy and thrive.
It’s interesting, I have an overt narcissist as an auntie who goes off the rails and is very easy to pick up on her issues. I have a friend whose always sort of made me feel bad, we had slept together years ago and I’m a lesbian - he sort of always says off handed sexual jokes about us being together like in a controlling kind of way. It’s very subtle but it makes me feel bad. I had never considered him to be a narcissist, but after considering it I think he is. He believes in lots of conspiracy theories because I believe it makes him feel superior - he has a sense of superiority to other people, and a real woe is me outlook on life as if everyone is out to get him. He also seems to take on a lot of his partners attributes when he’s in a relationship / which to me shows insecurity and lack of own identity. I could easily be wrong, but he seems to flip in his attitude towards me being quite nice and easy going but then quite controlling and passive aggressive.
A therapist once said to me “When something feels bad it usually is”. Learn to trust your intuition and your feelings. Nobody has to go through life feeling bad about themselves. When I wised up I made the decision to stay away from people who made me feel bad. Being a codependent I had a bad habit of staying in situations/relationships with people that did not work for me, hoping things would change. I was the one who needed to change by recognizing that I was powerless in my effort to change others. Life is so much better and more peaceful now since I have let go of the need to twist myself into a neurotic pretzel in an effort to please others.
That's so true! Growing up in this it was insidious. They teach you not to trust your gutor have independent thought and then when you're reliant on them they blame you for not being able to think. Once you start thinking and learning at least for me, I saw the puppet master.....
1. False feel of humility 2. Strongly dislike show their weaknesses 3. Withdrawn self centered (suddenly pulling back) 4. Lack of empathy (not really interested in you, don't care about your world) 5. Smugness 6. Misunderstood special person 7. Passive agressive behavior Don't want to make themeslves vurnerable 8. Disconnect their head from heart Tools: minimize expectations from relationship
Do you take criticism badly and seek any desire for revenge if it happens? Do you get jealous easily? The fact that your asking yourself this would suggest you’re not but I’m not an expert.
@@hilah89 search rather for the term "shizoid". Alexander Lowen wrote whole books on it. It seems that this "covert narcissist" term is just a new term for what psychoanalysis decribed as schizoid type of charachter.
@@hilah89 Try tapping with Bill Yates on youtube. It has cured people of severe PTSD type issues and various attatchment traumas like avoidants and anxious styles from core wounds. It's free. If you are a "humble narcissist" then yes God can heal you. If you cannot self reflect you cannot learn from past actions and learn new skills. You may never be able to FEEL empathy like others who weren't damaged in childhood but you can choose to follow moral codes and choose polite behaviours even when you don't feel like it. There were great men in the Bible who became cocky, vengeful, and selfish and seemingly narcissistic but those who repented and humbled themselves daily got right with God. Those who stayed prideful were brought low. I've heard narcissism is connected with demons like the Jezebel spirit so maybe you can find someone to help you cast it/them out.
Every video I watch and listen to I gain a piece of my sanity back. Thank you so much for taking the time to make these videos. This subject needs to be taught in schools. So many people out there suffering without knowing the root causes until years have passed by....
Ditto for me. I have been sharing these with my husband and now he can see "The glass ceiling of narcissism" with his some of his difficult co workers or employees.
It took me almost 40 years to realize my father was emotionally abusive in these ways. I just couldn't figure out what was wrong and why he would treat his son this way. He had the best parents one could imagine.
Spent 28 years with my husband, thinking “something is wrong with this man, but WHAT??”. Left him 1,5 years ago and only now, thanks to this kind of posts, starting to understand. The worst thing I experienced in our marriage were his cold, empty eyes looking at me whenever I talked to him about emotional matters. About how I felt he would not connect with me. He was just not interested in me or how I felt. Nobody understands why I broke up the marriage with this ‘kind, friendly, soft and hardworking man’, and my 4 children at first rejected me. I had a horrible time, but now things are getting much better and I am becoming the happy, cheerful woman again that I was before. This is so healing, thank you!
I could be reading my own experience ! It got better over the last 23 years as I progressed, my three daughters addressed their own issues with him.We four are good friends. Wishing you well.
Beware of Parental Alienation. It took me by surprize. My ex brainwashed my daughter and at the age of 26, 12 years after the divorce she rejected me. I am fighting back. The moment your relationship with your kids starts to feel off there is something going on. Learn as much about it as you can now.
Chilling how spot on this is for me & my husbands relationship. 29 years together & asking same question knowing something isn’t right. Lack of empathy even when I beg him to help save our marriage! Cold stares & even mocked me saying “Oh now you’re gonna cry to make me feel bad”. It’s like “No I am probably gonna have a nervous breakdown if I spend another minute trying to understand how you can tell me you love me but treat me with TOTAL DISREGARD & aloofness”. Concerned about his mental health so that is what is keeping me from leaving. Therapist said sounds like you are suppressing your emotions to protect his. Mind blown!
Is this my way out? Do I tell him I have him figured out? I’m pregnant with his child and just want him to go away and not seek custody and torture me forever
Mine knew I had been abused before him and jumped right in and played me again for his own use. And laid waste to me again. I'm 66 and Never experienced true love and don't think I ever will. But at least I'm not like them. I kept asking why did he marry me - I guess I gave him too much credit . Now I know after wasting almost 30 years . That's alot of years to lay waste to. But there was Alot of deceit not easily seen for a long time. I didn't have this information till just recently so I didn't recognize what was going on even when he Finally revealed himself and getting your information I can now see it fits almost word for word.
@@ericnorthman9410 I thought that you sounded like a woman, but when I checked your name and found out you were a man I was surprised. Why do you think that is ? Example: When a woman gets selected by a narcissistic man, I suspect he will prefer about 9-10 years age gap. The women are in their twenties. " I Robbed theCradle", he will often smugly brag to everyone. He makes the woman confused because he means it. She is beneath me he is thinking. You wouldn't allow yourself to go with a woman 9-10 years older than you, would you ? That's step #, the seduction. I hope you did get free of all narcissists. You will seek your own happiness no fix the broken partner you're dating.
@@bernitacenteno1326 I'm sorry I don't understand your reply to me at all. You misunderstood everything I said - I'm sorry. He didn't act broken - like a person I needed to fix . He acted like my soul mate and Mr. Nice guy to everyone including to me at first. It had Nothing to do with me "fixing" a broken person. It was as a covert narcissist is - a good actor - good they can con you for years till they drop the bomb that - that is not who they really are -
@@bernitacenteno1326 And also I don't agree with you. A age difference really depends on the people involved - it doesn't matter to some. Some it does.
Coverts are worse because it's not so obvious...and you HOPE they speak your language so you try to "understand" their point....but it gets so weird you don't know what the hell is happening, and you feel like you have failed in compassion and empathy. Coverts are masters at making you OVER ANALYZE yourself.
Warren Moore how long shoukd you date. What no red flags. These oeople ar not that snart. Thats why you dont rush into a relationship with people. Including. Sex hello?
@@buffhotchkiss7400 these people come in different levels of intelligence. I don't know where the sex comment comes into play. Some narcs are truly geniuses, some idiots and everything in between.
torri yess you are so right! very mousy then BAM lying stealing your things shoving me around --- dont show happiness they will hate you more dont show them you feel sick or troubled they will love it this doctor has terrific videos and a big help to all of us thank-you
Yes I just had lunch w a friend today (it was nice cuz I wasn't allowed to have friends) and this friend said I noticed in your last picture of him (narc) he had a weird look on his face. This was towards the end of relationship at a concert. The narc could not fake being happy anymore w me.
Oh, they're "interested", alright lol...interested in having you *FULLY* serve their needs, meanwhile degrading, belittling, and blatantly disregarding yours. Their needs are the only valid ones.
Covert Narcissists are usually drifters. They recycle old supply because they aren't overt enough to find new supply. They stay local within their comfort zone. It's what I've noticed.
I understand what Serby is saying. Overts can easily make new friends and pick up new supply. Coverts are “shy” and would prefer to put their victims through a comfortable devaluation and discard cycle over and over instead of trying to find someone new.
Your comment is contradictory. If overts are moving around finding new supply, then they are more likely to be drifters by definition. Also, promiscuity is a trait of the psychopath.
What I learned from my narcissist was that the passive-aggressive was a great way of telling themselves that because they 'weren't doing anything', that they couldn't possibly be doing something wrong. The fact that they have ignored you or completely shut down on you for several days and have ignored any pleas to come to the table to talk, sort things out, or just that you want to let them know that the silence is causing a lot of suffering - no, the lack of empathy means those kinds of appeals have little effect, and any accusations that they are doing something to hurt you leads them to tell you that they have done nothing - you are the one making their life difficult.
I agree totally...but he pushed me too far..I want out permanently and I want despiritely to spoil his public image...He tore me apart and now I want revenge...then I’ll begin to heal and get reacquainted with ME...
Mark Phillips ...The silent treatment went on for weeks and when approached, he said he was only being quiet...Being quite and having the silent treatment played against you are two very different things...He always denied his actions...minimized any negative thing he did and made sure I took the blame
Yes I keeps them holier than though whilst causing immense suffering. When I was a kid I couldn't take it, I'd beg to be back in the good books. Definitely made me feel there was no safe place growing up
Covert Narcissists are the most damaging to a person's mental and emotional health. I really feel I was on the verge of an emotional breakdown. The most dis
This summer, after invalidating my feelings and not being very nice, I lost it on my husband. He started calmly telling me that he thinks I'm very "emotionally unstable." After telling him that it's no wonder, since I'm in a crazy, toxic relationship, he kept repeating "Just keep justifying your emotional instability, Gillian. Just keep justifiying it.." over and over with a really weird, smug tone of voice. It isn't the first time he's used that "Justifying it" line--usually with tone dripping with condescension. Anyway, it got in my head so badly, that I nearly had a mental breakdown. I wound up on a friend's doorstep at 10:00pm completely hysterical, and then I fell into a 2 month depression. Great, now I'm proving him right... man, they really have a way of getting in your head. At least, mine does. I finally asked him to go stay out in our trailer, because I cannot deal with the craziness. The hard thing is, he has intermittent periods of awesomeness, which really throws me for a loop. Anyway, I keep bombing the comments section...I guess I have a lot to get out...!
@@G2thesecondpower oh my gosh I feel for you and I know exactly what you mean with that smugness if theirs. You've got to get out. Don't fall for the love bombing phase when he draws you back in. You are stronger than you realise right now. My ex is a therapist!! He has wrecked my emotional life, driven me to suicidal thoughts and depression, emotionally abused me and our son...no one sees that but me...you need to get out and you can do it. Build and strengthen your network, start doing small things for yourself - don't ask permission - and build up to the bigger things then get away. Then no contact.
@@Arya-cf7vu thank you so much. I'm just now seeing your comment. Wow, your ex was a therapist? I bet that made him extra skilled at manipulating your emotions, yikes I am so sorry. As if your basic uneducated narcissists already dont have a preternatural ability to understand human psychology! I've been through this for 12 years. It's so strange it's like we have two different relationships, this horrible abusive side and then this really fun side where we work well together. For years I thought if we could just fix the horrible side everything would be better... Now I know that the good times are all part of it. I started researching years ago. I didn't come upon the idea of covert narcissism until they took passive aggressive personality disorder out of the DSM! after reading about eight books on narcissism and at least another 10 on verbal and emotional abuse--as well as coming to all these wonderful CZcams channels and comments sections on narcissistic abuse, it's finally sinking in that this is not going to change. Unfortunately I can't completely go no contact we have a child together, and our financial lives are very intertwined. It's a long story, but I'm working on untangling this knot and just detaching emotionally for the time being. Thank you so much for the support; I don't know where I would be without these channels and all the validating comments and support in these sections! :) :) :)
@@G2thesecondpower I know what you mean by not being able to go no contact - I have a child with my ex too. But the grey rock thing really works - not engaging in their games, just being matter of fact and limiting yourself to text and email only to make child arrangements. Yes, sadly these covert narcissists can be therapists, teachers, doctors and religious leaders... (my ex was a teacher for 20 years and more recently qualified as a therapist, including hypnotherapy and nlp. ..makes me shudder - it's so wrong these people can be in positions of power and trust over vulnerable people. But it's excellent narcissistic supply for them and excellent cover :-(
@@Arya-cf7vu Yikes, I'm glad your away from your ex, he must have been really psychologically damaging. These types are so much harder to spot---especially when they're in "the caring" professions. I shudder... Until my partner and I financially separate, I'm practicing "grey rock." I can still get sucked in when he's fun and nice--I recently had a three week vacation from him (he was working away from home) and I was finally feeling some peace and calm and really working on myself. When he came back, we had a talk and he seemed caring and reasonable, but then last night and this morning, my concerns over a matter where dismissed with impatient irritation, (he has this way of acting like my concerns are petty and ridiculous no matter how large or small they are) and I said to myself, "Thanks for the reminder, I'm going to re-erect my deflector shields and set my phasers to stun..."
Wolves are beautiful animals that don't wear another animal's skins, unlike most human beings... These kind of people are capable of wearing the personalities of the very people they have torn down. It would be great if these sort of people weren't put in the same category as wolves, even in metaphorical terms...🙁
Coverts are worse than overts, imo -- even bigger liars than an overt and more backstabbing and insidious. An overt is pretty much in your face with the "I'm better than you" attitude - the one thing the overt is "honest" about. The covert can't even be honest about that.
Ok, so this literally just happened. I'm sick, and I texted my husband to ask if he wouldn't mind picking up a bunch of Samosas at Thriftys (they're super cheap and my kid loves them for his school lunches) and a few other things on his way home from work. He came home and said he didn't have any money on him (tight month,) I have some cash, so I gave him $50 bucks. When he came back, I asked him if he'd remembered the Samosas. He said he didn't get them, because he had to get gas, which he hadn't mentioned he needed to do. I expressed some frustration, since we're out of easy school lunch food, and he goes on the attack "Oh, since when as are we sending (our son) to school with shitty processed food all the time!?" I called him out on his insult, and of course, he tried to tell me it wasn't a personal attack...uh, yes it was. I'm the one that buys the samosas. He can't ever be honest when he's being insulting, which can be frequent. Not to mention, I've been buying them for over a year, and he's never had a problem with them---in fact, he usually runs me out of them because he eats them himself. He also puts processed Cliff bars and other things in our sons lunch, and brings home sugary treats on a regular basis. So.... yeah. Its almost funny. If this kind of thing was a one off, I might chalk it up to him having a bad day, but I'm watching this video and o a lot of others like it, because sadly, it isn't.
"It's you who decides who you're going to be, not the narcissist deciding it on your behalf." Dr Carter, that is so incredibly powerful and absolutely on point. Tears of freedom.
I have questioned if my husband was really a narcissist because he is not overt, but this literally describes him to a "T". The confusion, the cycles he would follow, the long periods of silent treatment, the covert hatefulness that I knew was there but could be hidden to everyone else. All the wasted times I tried to talk, reason or understand him all to no avail. So much wasted precious time given to try to make it work. The minute I figured it all out and stood up and said no more, the relationship was over, discarded like I was trash. I am so grateful for videos like this that have shown me truth and caused me to realize it was never about me. Now I can move forward and choose to have joy, be healthy and whole.
The discard is the worst...one minute your their best thing around and the next you are so way downgraded it's not funny. The confusion and trying to make them understand your view over such basic things is mind wrecking.
anddddd it's happening again with a new guy all because I don't accept his invitations to come over or respond much to his sexual innuendo text messages which he is hot and cold on and then after he's gone on and on about some girl he's been on dates with (only 2 apparently...yeah right) and says how he doesn't like her because she's too into god and he doesn't believe in god...yet he invited her to the tennis this weekend all the same...after a few minutes I then say, I like god...he goes a little quiet...he's not really asked me anything about me as he's always talking about himself so that smacked him one in the face...then ever since then he's so subtly less interested and now I get the down grade to we are just friends and give me space for a few weeks because your too full on at times...umm yeah usually that's in reaction to him and his strange behaviour and when I apologise he doesn't even acknowledge it, goes on to say he's taking his wife to the tennis (apparently the date didn't want to go...haha yeah funny that!) oh i know he's working a casual employee but he even he admitted he lost his recent job by pushing his employers up the wrong way. But of course he's making this downgrade out as my fault that he's not interested now...guess who used words full on in the first place?? I did! to him! when he was quick to try and get into my bed when we met and asking me out places twice in one week. then hot and cold with the sexual innuendo and saying ridiculously weird things like 'my phsyic told me i am a special and the woman in my life will require to be very patience with me' lol he's basically telling bat straight off the bat he is a narcissist...while calling his ex wife whom he is still seeing every few months one. Seriously f'd up. Of course I was trying to tell him that it's not exactly a turn on for me to keep hearing about his ex wife issues (still trying to make someone like this understand my point of view...i should know better by now right...) to which he proclaimed i was just making matters worse...matters that he is causing. Superiority 101...has to make himself feel good in rejecting me because he was already obviously being rejected by me...but no, in his eyes he is rejecting me haha and then well now, i am the one who has the problem because i sent too many messages...trying to make sense of his vague indirect message that he wants time alone...which felt more like....lets not be friends...hmmmm
@@Goldgirl1978 Ugh!!!!!! I don't think I ever want to date again. Out of that scene for 17 years, it's not even remotely appealing yet. Maybe someday, but the standards would be so high, so good luck. I think I will stick with it just being me, God and my kids. I like God. Lol
@@TheMandybug that's all just in your mindset. the first thing is to work on yourself and love of yourself which includes forgiveness of yourself and others...not forgetting what she did but forgiving her regardless. Once you can master that your own empathy will enlarge and you'll feel the desire to love again. It is not easy I know, i am single too for now...this is like the 3rd narcissist in my life but I'll stay open minded because I know the real deal exists out there somewhere and I'm a strong believer in law of attraction. Sometimes we meet these people a few times in order for us to learn the lesson which is to create stronger boundaries and to grow more as person to the point where these people don't even enter our lives or don't stay around long when they do. The most recent narcissist i met just 12 weeks after i left my ex narcissist and within 3 weeks he wants space because I am too full on. I am too full on because I have boundaries and i out right tell him how it is...see he won't stay around now because I am too much work and he cannot con me because I see right through him. You'll get there when you are ready :) best of luck. having said that, if being single truely keeps you happier (and it does me) then there is no problem with that either.
I'm kinda laughing over the THUMBS DOWNS on this video...because, I'm imagining those dislikes are from Narcissists! LOL I actually had to laugh at that to keep from crying about what was said in your video. Been dealing with someone and I am in no position to break free for a while. I can't wait till this will be a thing in my past and I can fly again.
@@SurvivingNarcissism That part still scares me to death when I think about doing that .... when I attempt to, dear god my entire being feels sick and my mind feels like it checks out...in a desperate attempt to do the disappearing act. I keep practicing, tho. You have no idea how much i appreciate your talks...I always feel centered and more courageous by the end of your videos. THANK YOU!
@@rebelxapologist4505 you can do it darling! I never thought I could leave after 21 years of covert abuse resulting in my complete physical and emotional breakdown. It felt like my soul had been crushed, a covert narc can destroy a person without them even realizing its happening. But now you know, that is the first step to your freedom and one day you will get there. While I stayed, I built myself up slowly day by day, minute by minute, got a job eventually, saved money, learned to grey rock him, didn't give him the reactions he wanted and saved my energy for better things as I knew our relationship was more than over. Within a few years, I had enough strength and made the jump out on my own for the first time in my life. It's been over a year and I'm thriving. You will get there too!! I am proof that it can be done. So much love to you!! ❤️
A narcissist wouldnt even bother to look for self help vids onli e to dig deep into their soul so they wouldn't even be watching these vids or any self help vids because they are the shit and so cool and k knows everything about everyone😂
The idea of having to wait to "fly again" is an illusion. You can do that right now and whatever is holding you back will be happier and healthier as well.
Excellent articulation of difficult things. Thank you. A covert narcissist's manual could be entitled: How to Murder a Person's Soul Without a Word or Visible Weapon
Exactly. I worked for a woman who I discovered was a Covert. A previous coworker asked how I felt about her. I said, “Soul Murder” is how I would describe her management style. She had employees at home due to a disabled son. They all looked like zombies cuz she beat the shit out of their self esteem. I quit and she got vicious. I was a single mother just trying to survive. Run is my best advice.
This is not how one should feel with a friend. Friends don't have to agree on everything but they should be able to express displeasure to each other without doing a character assassination on each other. Get rid.
Yes, my ex used to talk about grandiose future plans for a house, then when I said it sounds wonderful, we can do it together. He said “ well, Im not sure about that..”. Indirectly saying “im just with you because Im bored, but when I find my REAL woman then I will do all of this”. It was very hurtfull. A lot of mixed messages.
The feeling you get around these people is one that is so uncomfortable and uneasy. You just physically want to get away from them particularly if its a non romantic relationship, rather someone like your in law or another acquaintance. If someone asked me why i felt so queasy around my covert narc i honestly wasn't able to put my finger on it. So disturbing. Great work dr c
True 💚👍 for me it was like being in contact with a dark negative entity, not a human being. Then my gut feeling, intuition tells me to go. Get away from it.
Narcissistic deserve death penalty .....The society may ignore about them but God knows everything is happening.....Word have worldly things ...People are just meant to be abused.......
I'm starting to feel like I've been playing magical thinking. It's too strange having lived with this man for 10 years and knowing him for 12-13. We have too children and he has struggled with work and life and our lives went from moderately stable and blew up. He has so many different silos of his personality story and none seem to make any sense. He has diagnosed PTSD and mood disorders but whoa the DARVO and reality inversion is crazy town. That they're so convinced and convincing is just fascinatingly terrifying.
In my experience, the covert narcissist isn't necessarily playing a game; instead they are covering up deep insecurity with these behaviors. The covert in my life certainly thinks of themself as a misunderstood and unappreciated genius who never had the opportunity to achieve the greatness they deserve. I was one of the only people who could keep up with them intellectually, but as an empath I worked way too hard to make them feel better about themselves, which left me doing all the emotional (and other) labor and receiving almost nothing in return. The lack of attention and intimacy was very painful, but it wasn't about game-playing for them; instead it was about protecting their wounded ego because they couldn't bear to be vulnerable.
Codependents be aware the covert narc will use anger traps to make you seem like the overt one out control. It shifts blam and focus away from them onto you and if you are anything like me and have been with that person 8 years or so, it can leave the codependent feeling ridden with guilt and concern they are at fault; even when the rational layout of events transpired to both sides of parties actions you will find your actions were all reactions to the extreme avoidance in the narcissist.
MrSk8erkbw, I think I understand what you mean, but hope to ask for your insight about a situation to see if I have this right in terms of what you expressed. A couple weeks ago an acquaintance popped over our house with her dog. It was out of the blue, and both my spouse and I were busy working on different projects, but we tried to be courteous. Suddenly, it was as if chaos ensued in every direction. She started talking very fast and was all over the place. The door was open on the porch, and before I could clarify what she was talking about, her dog starts barking came into our house and nipped me on the leg. Being a dog person, I brushed it off, but asked if she could please put her dog in her car. She then gets her phone out and starts taking pictures of us and our kitchen, and I'm like...wth? So I motion for us to go walk out to her car, to see her off. This person had been asked to call first before popping over...not once but twice. After she finally left, I found myself feeling so annoyed and angry internally. But I didn't know who I was more angry at: myself, her, or her stinking dog. lol. Its like she swept in, totally violated our space and boundaries, swirled chaos on our peaceful day. I could be wrong, but since we had asked her to call first....this felt like a deliberate effort to stir up chaos. It was so confusing. In your opinion, is this kindof what you were saying? Is there anything you would have handled differently? Thanks for anything you feel led to share. :)
Coffee Barista While stating the obvious first, I was not there and did not experience the situation. Was her conversation sensley frantic or was something important or hard happening to her? Based on what you are saying I feel like her actions were actions of an avoidant personality seeking attention when they’ve internalized the need to call and hang out. Some people will allow those neurotic behaviors to thrive. I fall victim to such concerns instilled from familial emotional and peer physical trauma in my youth. However, I try to find more healthy ways that I am comfortable with for approaching new social acquaintances. The important thing to remember before calling someone out on being a Narc is that often empathic codependents will begin to assume the narcissists behaviors has their own. Sometimes in reaching out to people they can seem on edge. I can say this from experience as I am having to snuff out my ex’s ways of thinking about the environment from what I know to be true to my own from my experiences in my entire life prior to the long but actually very recent and brief 8 years. Again, you know your situation best, it very well could have been deliberate narcissistic behavior. It seems she took photos your place after the dog bit you for what ever insurance concerns possibly, or this person is detective sorts lol and you are suspects lol. Like I said, you the situation best, you and significant other set boundaries and the person deliberately broke them to satisfy their own warped needs. Her actions none the less were very overt in nature. Covert Abuse is more like Tom cruise in mission impossible when has those perfectly made masks with the voice modulator microchip taped to his neck. The person shows up like prince charming and often to those in need of saving, in other words in an emotional low point. Like Dr. C says they pretend to be mature and emotionally developed but as time progress your eyes cross more and more in your interactions with them. I just wish I knew these signs when I was 21.
Surviving Narcissism Do you have a video on tips for getting back into you body after re-closuring the childhood traumas brought back to the surface by relationship with the narcissist? I have a very optimistic mind and it has never been much of an issue to put the past to bed, my issues are the physical symptoms that arise as responses to our environment, i.e: issues with public restrooms, peer confrontation, etc. It’s like I have the healthy thoughts be nurtured but I don’t know how to react differently and when I fail to react adequately the symptoms get worse. Truly self damming.
"Disdain" has been my Narcs middle name from day one. Even when he was love bombing me in the beginning, I would always pick up on that sense of disdain in his eyes, that he would let slip at guarded moments. It would always leave me feeling, even through all the love bombing, that he couldn't be trusted, and my contempt for him started almost immediately.
I had to. I worked with the guy, still work with him actually, so I had to maintain a cordial relationship as best I could. It's not been easy though. If I had met this guy in s bar, or some other kind of social situation I would have never given him the time of day.
1. False sense of humility - false feeling of approachability a. early impression of modesty b. not argumentative in the early stages of the relationship c.modesty is a disguise d. hidden superiority and entitlement 2. strongly dislike having their weaknesses known - strongly dislike feeling vulnerable 3. withdrawn self-centeredness a. they shut down when offended 4. lack of empathy a. I just don't feel the need to know you b. I don't find you interesting c. cold,disinterested, uncaring 5. sense of aloofness and smugness a. my way of thinking is pretty good, so why would I need you? 6. portray themselves as misunderstood special persons a. I have awareness and insights you don't have b. you don't know life the way I do c. they dont need to explain things to you 7. lots of passive-aggressive behavior! a. leave the room, stoney cold stares b. evasive + refusal to speak --> control with the least amount of vulnerability 8. disconnect between head and heart
My narcissist would ram me as he walked by me, without ever saying sorry, until one day when I pushed him back. He was dumbfounded and never said a word.
My ex would "accidentally" whack me in the head many nights as he tossed and turned. I called him out for doing it on purpose. He totally denied doing it on purpose...but it never happened again.
Very interesting and well-observed! It's nice to see someone showing empathy for the distress that this passive aggressive behaviour causes in the person on the receiving end as, so often, the person suffering is seen as overreacting. The covert narcissist is seen as sweetness and light, while the person they're doing their passive aggression on appears to be moaning about nothing. It is real and it's so stressful and unsettling.
Oh man. My sig. other will be so hurtful or disrespectful, and 5 freaking minutes later, he's fine. He'll pass me by when I'm still upset or crying (that's right, I'm still working on my Teflon shield.) and he'll say, "What, are you still upset?" No one else sees or hears what happens, so he acts like I'm the crazy and dramatic one that can't just get over some "teensy comment," and other people buy it. It's the most god damn frustrating thing I've ever been through in my life.
It's sad when the Covert Narc is your mother. I wish I'd known this when I was living with my mom in my early 20's. Growing up, she never wanted me to be myself. She'd go out of her way to make sure I couldn't be me. Then when I moved back in with her after having some independence, she made my life a living hell and I didn't even really see what was going on because her behavior was always normalized by our family. After that, it was a long slew of relationships with people who were just like her. Every time I got a glimpse of freedom, another narc would rope me back in to compliance. I'm 42 now and still trying to repair the damage and figure out how to be me. It's so freaking hard because I don't have a baseline to work from, save for fragments of moments from my childhood when my true self snuck through (even though I was usually punished for it.) A lot of people are quick to say "just do it!" but it's not that easy when the fake, safe me is all I've ever known. Ugh.
Yes I know what you mean. I've been with one for 40 years. I left in 2010. What I did is I asked God for a clean heart and right thinking. That's when I discovered these videos and I read my Bible all the time. And he created us to be unique. He will begin healing you and showing you how this has affected you. You will begin to remember bits and pieces of Who You Are inside from childhood on.
This sounds so familiar I had to check it wasn't my username. I'm also 42 and can't believe the fallout I'm still having to clean up. Mentally and emotionally I'm very independent. So it doesn't bother me that being be was never good enough. But what I really struggle with are the legal and financial troubles I'm still in as the result of my misguided loyalty. The extremes I have to go to, to make things right are mind-boggling.
I am on your page, he says just be yourself but then will turn around and say something like I’ve been acting weird and accusations start coming out of the wood works . I just give him a dumb found look and try to just realize he is delusional and makes things up as he goes . Most likely because he is doing the stuff he is accusing me of . Cheating ext.
Excellent, message. Thank you. . I was married to a Narcissist years ago. And, I just let go of a friend who is a Narcissist! The Serenity Prayer has helped me.
Leave them or they will run you into the ground! There will never be any resolution of any kind. You'll be wasting precious time and energy. Run! Your health and happiness depends on it!! Thanks. Doc!
I assumed narcissists were all overt - grandiose, extrovert, Type A personality. So when I met a covert COLLAPSED narcissist, I had no clue. Thought he was an introverted, nerdy fellow who was going through a difficult patch, and found a supportive ear in me. It was the worst experience of my life.
I think the bottom line here is if the covert narcissist is your spouse or significant other - forget it, just get away from them before they completely ruin your life. I wasted 10 years! If it’s a family member or co- worker then you’re going have to learn ways of navigating around them.
Co-workers?=transferred and starting at new location in a week Family?=started no-contact one week ago I'm at peace now. Waiting for the smear campaign by the family member, but I'll cross that bridge when it happens.
16 year with a covert narc and im still trying to undo the damage caused 3 month later. Everytime i think ive got a handle on the situation, bam! something else appears from the past. Looking back I can see the pattern forming and I wholeheartedly put this on par with grooming. The recovery is like PTSD, its awful because you just cant put it to bed. Imagine peeling an onion layer by layer....thats what covert narc recovery is like!! Very dangerous people.
30 years married. Everything I did sub standard, no praise, silent treatment. My contribution never good enough. Hated me socialising and having friends and enjoying myself. Almost divorced now and am happy but still dealing with a type of PTSD which led to anxiety and low self worth. They devalue you and blame you for everything. Communication zero, like living with a brick wall. They blank you but all the time taking notes, noting your faults so they appear perfect and faultless. Could not be my true self. They chip away at you, bit by bit. He accused me of using my anxiety to get what I wanted but all my panic attacks were with him. He thought I was crazy and I started to believe it. I have moved on, have a new partner, recovery is slow but getting there. It can be done, just believe in yourself.
Every narc is different. For me, this person after many many years of closeness showed zero empathy for me when I lost my dad. I was mourning and told them. And they never even said I’m sorry you lost your dad. And even when I called it they still didn’t. We had a tight relationship for years but I began to see this as the years past. This person is sociable and even fun. Agreeable to the world but with you they are distant emotionally. It’s so strange.
Strange indeed. Sounds like he's one way in public and quite different behind the scenes. The definition of character is who you are when you are not in the public eye. Dr. C
Deborah Bonney I went thru the same with my ex. She was so different at work than at home. She is very sociable at work. Kisses the managers behinds and anyone’s else she wants praise from. She would constantly compliment others women and never give me kudos. Like it pained her to tell me anything nice. She also was unable to say “sorry”. And yet, I would see her saying sorry to others. Then at home, total silence. Hardly would open up to me and talk. Regressed herself emotionally. Silent treatment at times. Would even drive away from me mid sentence when I would discuss how her behavior made me feel. No empathy nor ability of ownership for her bad behavior. Very emotionally abusive. I would catch her rolling her eyes at comments I would make or that ogres would make. Very passive aggressive. She literally would walk away or raise her voice if I ever attempted to call her out on her insensitive/rude behaviors towards me. She wouldn’t even comment when I’d call her out on it. Like I didn’t need an explanation. However, at work, or with her friends, plays the victims role constantly. They think she is so sweet.
Sounds like Deb finally hit the devalue stage and her narc had another side piece he wanted to move on with. They wont just cut their main source if supply loose. They have to draw it out.
I think they call that a high functioning narcissist. They are just better at what they do (acting) but still likely a black heart like the rest of their kind. Some of them maybe aren’t full on NPD as well, or not as high range or full blown, but they can still be very toxic to be around.
This man just summed up 55 years with a father and a grandmother and 2 brothers who were 110% evil and awful and ruined everything in peoples lives. Thank the Lord, I became like my mother and have the compassion and empathy for others. Sadly, my mom passed last year and my father 9 months later and I am now learning to live life without drama, stress and hatefulness every time I was forced to be in the same ZIP CODE as the 4 of them. I put up with so much to see my sweet mother that I loved and she put up with so much in 55 years. I have watched all of Dr. Carter's videos here and I CAN NOT STRESS 100% SPOT ON as he talked. I feel like a huge elephant is now off my chest and I can now choose to simply cut people out of my daily life that are EVIL. Thank you very, very much for laying this all out to get a final huge picture of what I will not be like and choose to break that dysfunctional cycle that plagued this family.
Sending you so much compassion and wishes for beauty in your life. You are amazingly strong and resilient, and blessed* to have made it to the place you have in your development. Thank God every day for your strength of spirit and inner rightness 🙏🏽 may you be surrounded by good people who share your good heart and likeness
My covert narcissist husband of 24 years is well trained in appearing to care. He always knows the right thing to say. Then you realize that he wasn't listening and asks no probing questions, and when you look into his eyes, he looks bored. We can have a conversation about my plans five times prior to the event. Then the day of the event, he will claim that he had no idea that I planned on doing whatever it is that I'm doing. Sometimes I think he remembers but is crazing-making. Sometimes I wonder if it's because he truly wasn't listening, even though he's looking me in the eye while I speak.
Same has happened to me. Its his way to ruin my plans and make me think of him the entire time because he doesn't want to lose me. The narc has attendance to ruin all plans and make you feel guilty for doing what makes you feel good! I have tons of times my narc has done this to me and I hated every moment.
Lights on nobody home! Definitely knew what to say, but no action behind it, I get it! Mine would ask what I want from the store n not bring it back!!!!
Fran: The late covert narcissist I was married to for 24 years was exactly the same. Had he not gotten diagnosed with cancer I might not have survived.
Im not a narcissist and wouldn't want people knowing my needs. Because it puts you in a position to be taken advantage of and preyed upon by malicious predators. Who will exploit your needs for leverage and extort things they want from you.
I have two covert narcissists in my immediate family. Both of them formed a small clique and constantly feed off of each other. They spend a lot of time gossiping, causing unnecessary drama and manipulating other family members. It's not fun having them around.
All so true. Married 57 years, still, to a covert. I didn't make the connection until I was felled with a chronic disease 10 years ago. As I look back, it has always been him first. Doesn't reveal his feelings...Im not even sure he ever looks into himself. Self-absorbed and doesn't care about anything that doesn't involve him, including taking care of me for smallest thing like acting put out to get me a glass of water, covering me with a blanket, locking the doors at night, helping me sort my pills, feeding the dog...Very passive-aggressive...evasive, walks out of room, doesn't get around to doing simple things promised for 3 or 4 years--like changing a lightbulb I can't reach. Not a team player EVER (I had assumed team-playership since childhood so took me 40 years to see it on even the smallest thing). Always a flimsy excuse or joke to explain everything he didn't do, say, share, etc. has helped to lower expectations and ignore ignore ignore his remarks and slights...in fact, expect them.
Wowww this sounds so much like mine!! Everything down to the light bulb and physical illness. I'm so sorry you're going through this too. I got out a year ago after 21 years, I know there are many road blocks and fear but you can do it too. I was so worried how I would live on my own being sick but I have never felt better in my life being away from that negative energy. I had no idea how much he was affecting me until I was out of it for awhile and had run ins with him. I got instantly sick to my stomach and felt like I would vomit. Their energy is powerful and it's doing you more harm than good. I know you will get out one day and be free. Sending you so so so so much love, you beautiful, brave soul. ❤️🙏
Ivanalese Sappho I shattered my left heel several years ago, the worst pain ever and couldn't walk for over 4 months and then only with a special boot on. My ex narcissist wife would just walk right past me, never asked if I needed anything, water, food...she even took away my crutches and said the dog did....A few times after hours without water I literally crawled to the kitchen, she was gone morning til night. These "people" have no feelings and are cruel.
Bob smith.. Same with my husband..I have symptoms of severe nose bleeding and just look at me..and I have fever on and off for two week and didn't brought me to the clinic..I ask him he said he is tired or busy..even he have insurance..he said just take Tylenol..I cannot go alone because I'm new here in the US..so it happens that I talk to my bestfriend about it and she text him..he's so mad at me cussing at me and yelling..telling me that I talk sh*t to my friend about him..I feel so bad that I left the house and met the wife of his friend in secret to bring me to the shelter..so then one of the staff there brought me to emergency..I was diagnosed with leukemia..was hospitalize he didn't spend any cents..while I'm at the hospital he brought another woman in the house and live with her until now..
Narcs are pieces of work, I'll give 'em that. I knew one who had a mother that drove the father into an early grave! Her mother wore a 24-hour-a-day sunny "everything is wonderful" look on her face, but in private the whole family were walking on eggshells at home to keep the peace.
This describes a new co-worker perfectly. Everyone thinks she is so nice. But those of us who are on to her know better. She is vile. And now she is blaming her inability to do the job on the four of us who are on to her game. She is complaining to HR that she is being bullied and THAT'S why her work is so bad. Fortunately I have a lot of experience with her type and know how to turn her tactics around on her. It's almost fun.
My ex aunt and mentor. I call her Jezebel. People die all around her. Just drop like flies. My beloved 2 cousins both dead at 49 and 51. My uncle, her ex dead at 50. Her latest who finally left her might’ve made it to around 70, but he left her psycho ass first and didn’t marry her til later in life. SMDH. She killed my soul also and no telling who else she slaughtered as a “minister.” She is a murderer and the carnage goes on for miles and miles and miles. Blood all over the streets.
In hindsight, what obliterated my mind, was succumbing to the shock of a Tourettes like rage, over nothings. Your stone cold stunned. Ofcourse that was always out of sight of any witness. When you least expect it. It beat me into a compliant state just not wanting another assault. I can't believe what I put up with. Romantic relationship attempts the worse. Lesson learned. All from a 125lb Hitler/Mussulini wanna be. Even her colleges called her a perfect Nazi. 54 years old with a trail of destruction. No long term relationship ever. A total disconnect from any societal norms yet a country club elitist. It's all image. It's all fake. It's all about your supply capabilities. I would think the stress, backs stabbed & lives assaulted would have caught up by now. It seems there is an immunity to stress that would kill a normal person. The elixir is the narc mind. Projection, blame shifting, the lack of remorse, the thrill of the empath kill. One after another after another.... Btw Dr. Always great info.
You're describing a borderline (BPD) covert narc who's got zero impulse control. Mask rips off in narc rage soon as you expose them. Then they go from 0 to 100 immediately...like suddenly a rabid demon.
@@user-rh5yf2wz8l I believe with everything I have learned you are correct. At least a comorbidity. Not playing doctor here but I've got enoughjoumaled to back it up. At the grand finale I asked her if she knew what a borderline is ? She just plopped her head down on table. Was not like her to not immediately rage. How many times can they outright lie to your face ? Answer. Everytime. Not that pointing a finger or a label matters, but to fully understand a.b.a.p. as well as a good introspection as well as what boundaryless means. Grieving widower meets serial offender. History don't lie.
Brad McEwen wow you nailed it. We were going along so nicely at first... He seemed so kind and caring, so attentive and grateful for every thing, then, blam! red-faced, spitting rage from out of nowhere!! Literally out of nowhere!! Naturally shock. And while I stuttered out that I didn't even know he was upset until he was yelling at me, I was told that I was barbaric in my inability to read the signs. There were no signs. and of course, he was always perfectly Pleasant around other people, you never saw him upset if there were other people around to witness it. he was old and bitter and fat and never had any lasting relationships, I was Slender and 20 years younger, by the time I was three years in, the gun the bad habit of drinking too much... Probably a sad attempt at coping... and gained quite a bit of weight. when I would cut down, or quit drinking, he would buy me alcohol and also hide alcohol around my house for me to find, as he called it a treat. multiple times whenever I started to go on a diet, he would surprise me with Donuts or fast food at 11 p.m.,. 9 years in I was 60 pounds overweight with a broken emotional compass and lower self-esteem than I've ever had. I'm still not sure how I got out of there. Except that I finally got so pissed there was no stopping me. lucky for me, being fat makes me cranky. LOL.
Waking up is a glorious experience. Its too bad that the lowest lows must be experienced before self preservation kicks in. I got a feeling we'll never give that much of ourselves away again back to a civilized life. Its so important the experience does not taint our new & established interactions unless knowledge gained indicates an exit is in order.
OR they'll play the game of the outraged victim who is constantly being done wrong by others so they can say they "aren't like that and would never do anyone that way!" thus implying they're "morally superior" to everyone else. I'm sure there's lots more variations of these ego trips.
And what do you think happens when you try to "establish yourself as other?" Yes, that's right. They will discard at this point. They have no use for someone operating on their own program. Even if you just start with this in small ways, your days are numbered. I tried this 5 times, and I was discarded within a week or two every time. She was a particularly attractive female, and did have many qualities that drew me in, so I was weak in the sense that she had called my bluff, and I would go back and basically apologize for the attempt at being myself, promising not to do that again, then she would take me back. On the last time, it had been 6 months, I decided to start dating. The day after I posted my dating profile, she called me and brought me back into the relationship. This denial of myself for this person has caused deep psychological damage that I'm still trying to sort through a year later. These people appear to be the most amazing people, but are in fact extremely dangerous.
I raised four kids with a covert narcissist. He played all those games. It took me too many years trying to get through to him thinking he just didn’t get what a great gift they were to have in our life. I always felt like we could be beamed up Star Trek style and replaced with another family and he wouldn’t skip a beat. Eventually I left when the kids were older and he moved out west, back to his family of origin. Our kids try to keep in touch with him, but he takes forever to respond, if at all. My (our?) only grandchild is turning two shortly, and Im not sure he even knows his name. They send pictures but he has never once asked about him. Sadly, my kids are now beginning to see what I was going through when they were young. My two sons, great as they are would probably have done better with no father on the scene, than a ghost in the background acting peeved and put upon all the time.
Only discovered my mother to be a covert narcissist this year after looking at the ' drip drip ' of confusing selfish unsympathetic behaviours. It's been a revelation, but not a good one. I've had to mourn who I thought was my mother while she is still alive.
This was(IS) so enlightening! My long time 'former' BFF has all these covert traits, but SHE comes off very sweet, accepting, perfectly gracious, and just a little (cute)"dumb-blond" , -to be 'forgivable' about anything she is called out on. However she is very sneaky, calculating, intelligent, extremely competitive and self-interested, & doesnt do a damn thing for anyone (but rather uses everyone), including not even sharing information on health or ANYTHING that she finds to be a benefit to her life. And she strings people along even when she doesnt want them anymore (but she thinks she possibly may, in the future). That sweet,innocent ruse throws everyone off but you just know you never really feel the love being returned.
I’ve just realised that a “close” female friend is a covert. Something hadn’t felt right for a while. Now it all makes sense. I’ve had to go no contact and feeling much better. I’m ignoring the gas lighting and just trying to get on with my life. So tempting to tell her how I feel, but have realised there is absolutely no point. She’ll never understand. Only thing I’m going to say to her when she starts to hoover is “I believe what you give out in life is what you receive. She is now receiving what she gave to the friendship. Absolutely nothing!!” Thank you so much for the video. Really informative
So other features of narcissism may be self-righteousness, inability to accept blame or accountability, and also the inability to apologize for actions. If one "apologizes" ("all right--I'm sorry!") with authenticity, then one would have to admit wrong-doing, so that cannot happen. Would these features also be co-occurring? You are learned your trade well and have found your gift, indeed! ✨✨✨✨✨
Never, ever do they apologize. You are correct that these are all characteristics of the narcissist. And while they never accept blame, or are ever accountable, at the same time, they are the victim. ALWAYS, the victim.
I'd have to disagree with the statement that they NEVER apologize. I believe they will sometimes apologize. They just don't mean it. They only say it when they know they have to, to get back into your good graces.
Robert Silvis So you’re saying that they offer a false apology to manipulate one or the situation, perhaps? True apologies really cannot or will not come from them. Any empty apology will be a tool for them. They will quickly recover and forget it like it never happened.
Good teaching! Very helpful. My downstairs female neighbor is a covert narc. When I first moved in, she was in my face daily for several months. I tried to be friendly with her, but she informed me she had been previously a manager at the apartment complex I'm now in, and began to boss and try to control me daily in various ways. She also went after half of my monthly income, and wouldn't quit. I finally confronted her, and she instantly cut me off and wouldn't speak for months. I decided I didn't want anything to do with her; she doesn't make me feel safe and secure.
Here's a simple indicator: when you are involved with someone if you find yourself frequently confused, bewildered, at wits end, your head spinning by what they say and do, feel depleted most of the time, and find yourself having to pick your words carefully, and walk on eggshells so you avoid triggering their insecurities and thus getting their rage, get blamed for everything, take no ownership of their issues, hijack whatever it is you present to them and make it all about them instead, those are all signs you are involved with a covert narcissist ...
May I offer a thought to your viewers, Doctor Les? I had become quite an expert at walking on eggshells for over 40 years before I finally began to educate myself about narcissism. Now I still walk on eggshells, but they are MY OWN EGGSHELLS. In other words, I consider how such and such a decision or course of action will affect ME, not just HIM! (Forgive the caps, just using them for emphasis.) Thinking of them as my own eggshells helps me remember that my feelings, opinions, judgement, preferences, etc. should be my primary consideration in life. It is making me more aware of my own feelings, and that I am entitled to them. It is a whole new concept for me, and it is going to take practice, but I like it! I would love to see a movement among fellow survivors: "I walk on my own eggshells!"
I love this! I have walked on HIS eggshells for 28 years! He will pout and withdrawal no matter what I do. So might as well make choices that make me happy.
Oh my gosh. I am bawling right now! I've been married to a covert narcissist for 13 years. I feel hollowed out beyond hope. I've been researching covert narcissism for months but this is the first time I've heard it said aloud by an expert. I listened to it 3 times in a row and it confirmed all my suspicions.
Your lucky to only have 9 years in. I have been married for 48 years and just found out what was wrong with my husband. And found out I was co dependent too. In my situation I will stay and confronting him has helped so much. Now he makes very small efforts to change and recognize my feelings are valid and I am not crazy. This is hurtful to find out but we are now working on both of us to be more independent of each . I am treating him the same way he treats me. You want silence.... I can give you all the silence you need. After a year he began to realize what I was feeling. I look at it as a mental health problem and we are working it out. I sure would not have stayed if someone had clued me in! I have suffered lost of esteem, and had thoughts of ending it all thru the years. Even with knowledge he suffers trying to communicate, it has been extremely hard the past years! It has gotten so much better with treatment for both of us.
Thank you so much for these videos! You got me out of a nasty covert relationship (he was exactly like this video describes). I am now dating a very nice guy who is very kind, and we have a great time together. Would not have had the understanding to leave without your videos.
This is such an accurate video Dr Cater. I been wondering if you don't mind, how do you get to know so much about this disorder ? You really have it down packed to such a degree that you may have had to deal with them yourself, or your just plain good at what you do with out the experience of actually dealing with them -- A lot of therapist do NOT know about this disorder..... is it in the DSM ? You have a way of conveying this disorder with such kindness, honesty, but with so much dignity in tact -- you really are special. Thank God for you.
Wow! Thanks for these comments. I've been in counseling so long that I've seen just about every kind of relationship dysfunction. Historically, my greater emphasis has been on anger management, but the narcissist kept popping up, so I followed the trail. BTW, I've known a few in my personal life as well. We therapists have to deal with it too on a personal level. Dr. C
1 most psychologists had a whole chapter on NPD. That's it! Even if they do come across an NPD, they might not even recognize it because they're so good at acting. 2 many psychologists cover for them on purpose because they're NPD also! What better profession to get into than one that teaches you how to control other people's minds even better while providing the best plausible deniability mask ever? Beware!!!
Anthony Raynes thanx for mentioning this- nobody ever does and its so annoying that it seems to be assumed therapists are some sort of perfect people who are beyond having this. I had a therapist who was, -i am now pretty sure after much pain and research,- a covert narc, and as you say he was in fact exploiting his position and lack of accountability, gave me as much or more problems and pain than i may have had when i met him. What can be done about this?! And i am curious how you got to know about narc therapists when it does not seem to even occur to people? I wonder if a video could please be made about this topic as it is so damaging since it occurs with credibility, in private behind closed doors, and with no accountability?
BUT, They do show you their so-called humanity and "humility" but it's only to get your sympathy for them which gets them supply ..AND by showing how so-called humble and good and honest they are it also is a way to brag about their "superiority"
My sister is narcissistic and histrionic. I’ve gone no contact with her. She is horrible and done some really horrible things. My mother is covert, my brother is narcissistic and father was overt. When my son was diagnosed with a severe disability my siblings stopped talking to me, my mother told me not to tell anyone then began treating me like I was an undesirable person, and my father pulled me aside to tell me that if I thought this issue with my son was going to affect his life in anyway I had another thing coming. I was the scapegoat and horribly abused and neglected by all of them. I’m now 57, my son is severely disabled and requires our care 24/7. He’s now 27. I’ve gone no contact with my sister and minimal phone contact with my brother and mother. My father passed away. Your videos have really helped me on this healing process. It’s very hard when your mother is this way since we all seek love from our mother. Unfortunately mothers like this are literally incapable of loving. My mother can’t even say she loves you. I truly feel sorry for them. The three of them, mother, brother, and sister, all cling together blaming me for all the family problems. They are masters at gaslighting. It feels sooo freeing to finally see this and know without a doubt it’s not me!!!
Hey Dr. C, you may never get this message but I will put it here anyway. I am beginning to believe my partner of over 9-years is a covert narcissist. I am in a bit of shock over this possible discovery, but also know things haven't felt right in a very long time. Thank you for your work. Somehow the Universe drew me to your videos...
Wow, you've done a wonderful job of describing my father. I'm in my 60's and just coming to some realizations that I'm not the weak, shitty person I was taught to believe I was. That is a lot of wasted time. I'm now suffering with how to start life at this age. No friends; No family.
Pretty good discussion! My covert husband could care less about my priorities as long as I don’t involve him. He has enough of a challenge just to literally sit down and physically pay the bills. His life outside of work is his cell phone surfing and on his iPad. You hit the nail on the head t-totally.
What truly makes this devestating, is that, as a victim of childhood narc abuse, I thought I was so clued up, and the stupid thing is I was not totally oblivious, just finding out that this was a bit different from the abuse I knew; but I’ve come to learn just how varied the nature of this abuse can turn out. I guess for me it is different because initially it was my caregivers/parents and family members who were the abusers, and now it has been a man I had a strong energetic connection with. Obviously the nature has been a bit different now, but certain little things remained the same, (the degrading and subtle insults) reminding me of the mannerisms of people from my childhood. I honestly agree that the problem is that society stereo-types narcissists as just these really loud and brash, over confident and smart-ass talking movie types in the most showy outfits, who thrive on status, who make it clear they believe they are above everyone. But I will say, that truly the ones who are most dangerous are not those ‘overt’, but the ‘covert’ types. I have no words for what I’ve been through; to hell and back, and continued to go back for more; like an idiot. Possibly I am dealing with some kind of Stockholm Syndrome or PTSD that contributed to it. One thing I know is that they absolutely fucking revel in your hurt and your suffering. There really is nothing worse than the kind of abuse that is totally unseen by surrounding eyes. I often joked about how I’d rather someone just beat me up or punch me, because somehow the scars inside, and a heart that feels like it was smashed to pieces, are what are far harder to heal. I know that I’m an adult and I would act careless and make dumb and dangerous decisions, but I will say that before this particular guy came along, I was not relying on drugs and self injuring. But I can see how I was so damn open and vulnerable to it because I have had 23 years of self destructive and abusive tendencies, and low self esteem. I was the perfect target. These people totally fuck you over, without even laying a single finger on you. Imagine what an ego boost and source of power ‘supply’ that must be to these individuals. All the while you will look like some crazy and over-sensitive person to other people who don’t understand. And these narcs will, like a chameleon, act like everything is totally kosher with others, swaying through, as if they got the respect and morals of the minister of the community, so it’s even more isolating for you. The only way I feel is the solution, is to totally cut them dead, however fucking hard that will be because of the energy and dynamics of this hell; to completely cut off any kind of interaction. What makes this so hard is how much with them was totally passive aggressive (typical for coverts), and using many fake accounts etc..nothing truly direct; everything could be denied, and I’m feeling like a complete fool. It’s not like I’m totally unaware, because the abuse I dealt with as a child included passive aggressive means, it’s just when it concerns a romantic interest instead of family, it’s different... and ohhhh, the things you tell yourself because you want to believe the best, as an empath, that that they have good in them and that you are just being too sensitive or paranoid etc.. Hardly surprising, as this was how I was conditioned as a kid - to always doubt myself and my intuition. I always knew something about this person was not right, but I ignored it and went back for more, while they just played me for a fool. I look at what they have been doing and I just feel sick to my stomach. I gotta face the fact that they truly don’t care, and they will never change, so I have to - change my tendency to take crap and abuse. I have to accept that they aren’t capable of having empathy and understanding of the consequences of their actions and how the things they do hurt - I guess it thrills them much more. What I need to do is no longer follow or pay any attention to ANYTHING they do, get out of the habit, because that is exactly how they feed themselves and bleed you, then try to ‘hoover’ with fake love and compliments to suck you back in. One of my aims is to try and keep my online engagement on here, because the one thing these people do is isolate you, and in this last 7 months that’s what happened to me. What is so tragic, is how it all happens so gradually, in how subtle they are, yet very sharp and vigilant, and how they will cunningly chip away at any self esteem or energy in you, while secretly loathing and envying anything you achieve e that they didn’t; they love absolutely feeding on your insecurities and vulnerabilities - if you are fragile inside, they will sniff that out and rip you open. I reckon that knowing my vulnerabilities must be such a source of power and control, that it truly drives their sick minds. Knowing exactly how to hurt you. I ask everyday, how the hell do I ever trust anyone anymore... I need to take back my own power, and even when I feel like crap, know that no one deserves to go through something like this. I know I have my passions, and need to feel and know I can still come on here, engage in what was always my love - do my music and writing - and be totally free of the negative energy of them. (Not pay attention anymore, but do my own damn thing). I feel the negative energy and anger, and I feel almost like somehow they have a sense of entitlement - like they own me and I must must somehow owe them... all because they have a real inferiority complex which they hide with ego and arrogant pride. Then they make out like it’s all a joke... Well I know a lot of humour, and I can take humour, but these people will gaslight you into craziness - blurred lines and questioning the difference between humour and whether it’s abuse. It’s sad. Lately I feel like I do not want to do anything, and I’m pretty sure I’m dealing with PTSD, which ties in with unhealed wounds from my childhood; but just sitting there and playing the idiot for them would be letting them win. It’s stupid that I even feel like it’s some kind of war, and I know I got my own ego to overcome. I just know that the way things are and how I feel by what they do, I gotta break away because what I always say; “No man who makes you cry is worth your tears, and the one who is, would never make you cry. In his kiss, only tears of bliss... Being a dreamer in a harsh world, as I’ve always been; it’s like sitting with your kid’s colouring paints, and big and ambitious paintbrush, in a cold, grey, dead jail cell. You wanna make it perfect, you never felt good enough; so you always painted over the rough. Sometimes you imagine a wishing well, Where all your dreams you fearlessly tell. You know there ain’t no magic spell, In this grown-ass world, you somehow fell, Longing for the inspiring, baked cookies you smell, Where aspiring, yet lost children dwell... I’m feeling so damn worn, I know so well they had me torn. It’s mental hell, feeling forlorn. The constant lose-lose, and suicidal thinking. I don’t even need the booze, to feel like I been drinking. It’s a depression that’s nothing like I’ve ever known. Maybe that’s why I feel no pain in broken bones... I sometimes wonder whether it is true, that when you have known a certain amount of deep and twisted mental pain over many years, that the physical seems like almost nothing. Maybe it might explain, why with three broken bones in seven months, I didn’t feel that much pain. Nothing compares to mental pain, and the fact that this is a controlled situation, of bringing you down slowly but surely. It is where a person is totally cunning, not like someone who just lashes out after a few beers. It’s the cold and calculated mentality I can’t get my head around, even after many years of knowing that it exists, and having dealt with parasites of a narcissistic nature through my life. Right now, the only way I cope with all my emotions and frustrations, aside from unhealthy ways, is my poetry/writing. I blame myself for knowing I ain’t stupid, and that I’m responsible for the decisions I made; but when your head is being totally fucked, and every single vulnerability in you is triggered, you feel powerless and sometimes like you are going to die. To many I probably sound like I’m exaggerating, but this is how it damn well feels. I know I need to try and let go of the victim mentality, and know that I do have control of my own self, and how I react. I can’t change them, but I can control how I react. I guess I just need to love me... I can say that that’s so much harder to do than to say; that’s been the issue all along the way. If I’d truly loved myself, these kinds of predators wouldn’t wouldn’t even be on the radar. In a world of violence, we forget the danger of those who play by silence. The tragedy in much abuse, is not the violence of the guns and beatings, but the ‘silence’ of the ones, loathing and conceiting.
Joanne Campbell No offense, but good thoughts aren’t what you need. You need to turn to Jesus Christ for sustenance. He said He would be a Father to the fatherless, and a husband/wife to the widow/widower/neglected.
Thanks for being a P.h.D and understanding this. I am sick of "mental health professionals" not recognizing 1) we were narcissistically abused and 2) that we are only part of the problem, and until someone else helos us show up for ourselves and validates our experience as something other than crazy we can't even begin to heal. Until I healed myself of my codependency I was really unable to shield myself from these cluster B's, too. It eas like a moth to a flame. Also, I am a bit over this whole new trend to label BPD as Bi Polar or Aspberger's. It lets them off the hook for being totally destructive assholes. It's like a new license for them to be an extra level of evil. I have compassion or them. I do; It's because they can't or won't get the insight to change, but I do so from a VERY SAFE distance. I win by not playing. Period. I won't be hoovered back in. Thanks for not being just another flying monkey mental health professional.
@@funsizeboyce9196 The anger subsides as we heal, but I support you in allowing your anger to be acknowledged. For a long time. I thought the anger was protecting me from them, because I always felt so powerless. As soon as I realized I am the full one and they are sad emptiness, I could tap into my already available "super power," called forgiveness. I applied it to the situation and the narcissist (because they are pathetic and not worth any more energy) and it healed me. I am not like them...thank GOD. I was so grateful that they clearly saw a difference between me and them. Extreme self care became my focus, along with talking to someone who understands and watching videos from this community really helped. Anger is completely understandable and necessary to walk in our own power and dignity after encountering these beings.
I think a lot of these types are diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I see a lot of recovering addicts play the same type of games too. And the "professional martyrs" too. They look slightly different than this specific type of person but they are in the same club.
Thanks, you always seem to explain narcissism in way which minimizes the projected feelings that sometimes plague me from Narcissist's I know well. I've for too long felt I'm to blame, which has become an inner pattern and resulted in significant somatic issues... and poor behavior on my part as a result. Understanding this is one thing, but understanding the motivation, and indicators, behind the Narcissists approach helps me be aware and extinguish this pattern of projection, denial and blame. The unconscious may be truly unconscious, but at least I can see now.
Hi James, Excellent commentary!!! Being aware of patterns, either from the conscious, subconscious and unconsciously with understanding of one self it actually shows empathy and compassionate. Please do your best not to lay any blame, as it appears from my perspective that you've learned and will continue learning lessons. Now go give yourself a pat on the back. Better yet place your right hand on your left waist or shoulder, your left hand on your right waist or shoulder then gently squeeze. That's equivalent with a Real Hug c/o mwAH~
Me to narc mom after her umpteenth attempt to manipulate/guilt me into engaging in a family situation i wasnt comfortable with: " I dont care what you think. [Husband] and i are doing what works fir *our* family." The end
@@SurvivingNarcissism the narc is 100% unteachable. w not receive ANY INPUT whatsoever. that point alone saves countless wasted hours of thinking and trying.
Finally, someone is really describing the narcissist I live with. The absolute stonewall against any kind of vulnerability, the passive-aggressive withdrawal, silence, judgement. The “I don’t want anyone to know who I am” (actually spoken aloud in tones of extreme alarm and anger). The “othering” of most of the rest of humanity. The belief that all forms of relational dialoguing are personal threats and attacks, no matter how kindly, tactfully, openly, and vulnerably I attempt to approach them. All the good guy stuff he does, is done not from a place of real empathy, but from a need to prove he is a “good” guy to himself and others, because that’s the source of the superiority. The statements about the covert narcissist being someone you cannot be “tight” with, or intimate with, hits hard. This is the conclusion I’ve painfully come to over the last couple decades with my narcissist. Based on experience, I’m going to toss a guess out there that this type of narcissist is the type that shows up most often in religious communities? Religion has certainly played a huge role in my narcissist’s personality formation, through it’s heavy influence on his parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, and so on back to the early 19th century. The shaming and black and white thinking are basic factors.
I enjoy your videos. The manner of speaking that both you and Laura utilize is easy to listen to, and to the point. Thank you for your contribution to this complex and all-too-prevalent personality disorder.
Cold, aloof, smug. That pretty much sums it. One of my ex’s favorite tactics was to start talking to me as though he was speaking to a customer service rep, as though we didn’t know each other at all and were simply conducting business. And if he didn’t like my policies he’d take his business elsewhere.
The number of years we put up with this is not a badge of honor. A badge of honor is breaking away from this highly dysfunctional person. It will hurt, you will grieve and you will need to protect yourself. The real badge is finally thinking you do not deserve this and you develop secure boundaries, refuse to be treated like this anymore from anyone. We are all here to offer support, suggest resources and a collective shoulder to lean on. You can do it. You’d be surprised how strong and resourceful you will be. 🥰
My husband of over 30 years fits this description. I’ve been practicing the advice at the end of the video for several weeks and not being his narcissistic supply. He’s bewildered but it’s so much more peaceful for me.
Covert narcissists seem to hook up together more than all out narcissists. They love to have complaint sessions with each other. I try to pick them out in film noir movies where their traits are extremely obvious.
I obtained two degrees in psychology. I understood the disorders of personality very well. There was no mention of NPD. There was psychopath or sociopath in relation to lack of empathy. Now the name is narcissistic. You can change the name but it is the same. The same disorder that killers and criminals have is this disorder. Be warned. If he sees you suffering or struggling and doesn't care get away while you can!!!
I went and hugged my stepmother who's been so jealous and talked about me really bad and stuff, anyways I hugged her tonight and was able to show her grace. I know that grace came straight from God. I've been praying about this.
People don't realize the torture of being related to these people. They're passive aggressive, full of guilt trips, and play mind games frequently. They always act like victims too.
Someone I used to know said of his mother- she's a travel agent for guilt trips.
I had a friend like this she I almost die
And they replace personal accountability with Projection.
If you challenge them, they're either passive aggressive or a complete utter martyr, you can't ever win with them! It's irritating frustrating and upsetting. The stuff they come out with is unbelievable
And they lie about everything
16 years of marriage and all I can cry is “Lord help me!” I thank you bc now I know that I’m not crazy and that is a start......
Tamara Brown l truly understand. I hope you are doing well !
I've been with mine Since 1998 then I am gas lit every day
@@zeannalauer9747 please try and leave my dear. Please.
Listen to us and your gut. We're here for you just leave and don't say a word. He's probably watching your activities on here. It's real! We're all telling the story in hope to save someone from the bone wrenching agony they cause you and everyone else. Leave, hide get safe. X
I feel for you, I left mine after 13 awful years ...he made me afraid to leave all the years before but I finally pushed myself. I'm healing now. Hope you take care of yourself♡♡♡♡♡
Withdrawing, withholding, dismissive, negativistic, obstructive, passive-aggressive, perpetual victim. Good video. Thank you.
Fia H And bad attitudes.
Quiche Lorraine I am learning so much here thank you ! This is spot on!!
On point
Yeah, they are passive to make you frustrated and the narcissistic supply comes when you are crawling in the dust for them/nagging them. Then you see them enjoying it. Thats when the smirk comes. When you are begging them for smthn.
@@anniemargareth7617 yes I have experienced this. So so strange. I didnt want to believe it at first
My first boyfriend was a malignant narcissist. My second boyfriend was a covert narcissist. My third will be a non existent narcissist
The last was normal I take it?
People with unhealed wounds, trauma, codependency etc attract narcissists like magnets. When we work on our own issues and heal then we will no longer fall into the pattern and won't attract them that way anymore. I'm on my healing journey. I wish you all the best!!
@@sfletch3042 so true
My ex co worker is a covert narcissist
@@sfletch3042 I disagree. Even many healthy and balanced people have fallen victims to these abusers, and narcs often target those who seem to have it all together. They hate it when others are healthy and thrive.
They have this under the radar way of making you feel lousy-you can't seem to put your finger on it- you just feel crappy. I went no contact
They really do. Its like they have a special mind talent or skill
I feel like I am in a perpetual state of Anxiety, and in waiting for the shoe to drop so to speak. It's never a dull moment.
Patricia Simons bingo!!
Good explanation, i could never put my finger on it, but my gut was telling me so loudly..something is just off.
It’s interesting, I have an overt narcissist as an auntie who goes off the rails and is very easy to pick up on her issues.
I have a friend whose always sort of made me feel bad, we had slept together years ago and I’m a lesbian - he sort of always says off handed sexual jokes about us being together like in a controlling kind of way. It’s very subtle but it makes me feel bad.
I had never considered him to be a narcissist, but after considering it I think he is. He believes in lots of conspiracy theories because I believe it makes him feel superior - he has a sense of superiority to other people, and a real woe is me outlook on life as if everyone is out to get him.
He also seems to take on a lot of his partners attributes when he’s in a relationship / which to me shows insecurity and lack of own identity.
I could easily be wrong, but he seems to flip in his attitude towards me being quite nice and easy going but then quite controlling and passive aggressive.
A therapist once said to me “When something feels bad it usually is”. Learn to trust your intuition and your feelings. Nobody has to go through life feeling bad about themselves. When I wised up I made the decision to stay away from people who made me feel bad. Being a codependent I had a bad habit of staying in situations/relationships with people that did not work for me, hoping things would change. I was the one who needed to change by recognizing that I was powerless in my effort to change others. Life is so much better and more peaceful now since I have let go of the need to twist myself into a neurotic pretzel in an effort to please others.
Great words to share. Thanks. Dr. C
You have said it as if you have lived in my shoes. Take care hope your better now:) never let others determine how your going to feel❤️✌️
Bravo!! Keep it up!
That's so true! Growing up in this it was insidious. They teach you not to trust your gutor have independent thought and then when you're reliant on them they blame you for not being able to think. Once you start thinking and learning at least for me, I saw the puppet master.....
Love the neurotic pretzel imagery!
1. False feel of humility
2. Strongly dislike show their weaknesses
3. Withdrawn self centered (suddenly pulling back)
4. Lack of empathy (not really interested in you, don't care about your world)
5. Smugness
6. Misunderstood special person
7. Passive agressive behavior
Don't want to make themeslves vurnerable
8. Disconnect their head from heart
Tools: minimize expectations from relationship
Vladimir Goodness I think I'm a covert narciccist. Do you think I can change? I'm really suffering from it
Do you take criticism badly and seek any desire for revenge if it happens? Do you get jealous easily? The fact that your asking yourself this would suggest you’re not but I’m not an expert.
@@hilah89 search rather for the term "shizoid". Alexander Lowen wrote whole books on it. It seems that this "covert narcissist" term is just a new term for what psychoanalysis decribed as schizoid type of charachter.
Better tool: severe all ties and save yourself.
@@hilah89 Try tapping with Bill Yates on youtube. It has cured people of severe PTSD type issues and various attatchment traumas like avoidants and anxious styles from core wounds. It's free. If you are a "humble narcissist" then yes God can heal you. If you cannot self reflect you cannot learn from past actions and learn new skills. You may never be able to FEEL empathy like others who weren't damaged in childhood but you can choose to follow moral codes and choose polite behaviours even when you don't feel like it. There were great men in the Bible who became cocky, vengeful, and selfish and seemingly narcissistic but those who repented and humbled themselves daily got right with God. Those who stayed prideful were brought low. I've heard narcissism is connected with demons like the Jezebel spirit so maybe you can find someone to help you cast it/them out.
Every video I watch and listen to I gain a piece of my sanity back. Thank you so much for taking the time to make these videos. This subject needs to be taught in schools. So many people out there suffering without knowing the root causes until years have passed by....
Couldn't agree more, Scott
Ditto for me. I have been sharing these with my husband and now he can see "The glass ceiling of narcissism" with his some of his difficult co workers or employees.
It took me almost 40 years to realize my father was emotionally abusive in these ways. I just couldn't figure out what was wrong and why he would treat his son this way. He had the best parents one could imagine.
And STRATEGY too!!!
I did too!
Spent 28 years with my husband, thinking “something is wrong with this man, but WHAT??”. Left him 1,5 years ago and only now, thanks to this kind of posts, starting to understand. The worst thing I experienced in our marriage were his cold, empty eyes looking at me whenever I talked to him about emotional matters. About how I felt he would not connect with me. He was just not interested in me or how I felt.
Nobody understands why I broke up the marriage with this ‘kind, friendly, soft and hardworking man’, and my 4 children at first rejected me. I had a horrible time, but now things are getting much better and I am becoming the happy, cheerful woman again that I was before. This is so healing, thank you!
Hope you’re doing well, I’ve learned a lot from your comment🙏🏽
I could be reading my own experience ! It got better over the last 23 years as I progressed, my three daughters addressed their own issues with him.We four are good friends. Wishing you well.
My husband would watch me break down crying with frustration with those same cold dead eyes…
Beware of Parental Alienation. It took me by surprize. My ex brainwashed my daughter and at the age of 26, 12 years after the divorce she rejected me. I am fighting back. The moment your relationship with your kids starts to feel off there is something going on. Learn as much about it as you can now.
Chilling how spot on this is for me & my husbands relationship. 29 years together & asking same question knowing something isn’t right. Lack of empathy even when I beg him to help save our marriage! Cold stares & even mocked me saying “Oh now you’re gonna cry to make me feel bad”. It’s like “No I am probably gonna have a nervous breakdown if I spend another minute trying to understand how you can tell me you love me but treat me with TOTAL DISREGARD & aloofness”. Concerned about his mental health so that is what is keeping me from leaving. Therapist said sounds like you are suppressing your emotions to protect his. Mind blown!
As soon as they know you know what the game actually is they suddenly don’t want to play anymore.
That is a sad truth. Dr. C
Is this my way out? Do I tell him I have him figured out? I’m pregnant with his child and just want him to go away and not seek custody and torture me forever
@@meganschutte1674 no
So true.
I love u
For me, the number one tell on a covert narcissist is the passive aggressive cruelty.
Yup
Mine knew I had been abused before him and jumped right in and played me again for his own use. And laid waste to me again. I'm 66 and Never experienced true love and don't think I ever will. But at least I'm not like them. I kept asking why did he marry me - I guess I gave him too much credit . Now I know after wasting almost 30 years . That's alot of years to lay waste to. But there was Alot of deceit not easily seen for a long time. I didn't have this information till just recently so I didn't recognize what was going on even when he Finally revealed himself and getting your information I can now see it fits almost word for word.
@@ericnorthman9410 I thought that you sounded like a woman, but when I checked your name and found out you were a man I was surprised. Why do you think that is ? Example: When a woman gets selected by a narcissistic man, I suspect he will prefer about 9-10 years age gap. The women are in their twenties. " I Robbed theCradle", he will often smugly brag to everyone. He makes the woman confused because he means it. She is beneath me he is thinking. You wouldn't allow yourself to go with a woman 9-10 years older than you, would you ? That's step #, the seduction. I hope you did get free of all narcissists. You will seek your own happiness no fix the broken partner you're dating.
@@bernitacenteno1326 I'm sorry I don't understand your reply to me at all. You misunderstood everything I said - I'm sorry. He didn't act broken - like a person I needed to fix . He acted like my soul mate and Mr. Nice guy to everyone including to me at first. It had Nothing to do with me "fixing" a broken person. It was as a covert narcissist is - a good actor - good they can con you for years till they drop the bomb that - that is not who they really are -
@@bernitacenteno1326 And also I don't agree with you. A age difference really depends on the people involved - it doesn't matter to some. Some it does.
Never make someone your priority when you're their option.
Well said.
Good point!!
Let me rephrase it.
"Never make anyone your priority"
Well said!
Craig Ross ...I do like that saying...Very clever and I’m glad you posted it here....Thanks...
Coverts are worse because it's not so obvious...and you HOPE they speak your language so you try to "understand" their point....but it gets so weird you don't know what the hell is happening, and you feel like you have failed in compassion and empathy. Coverts are masters at making you OVER ANALYZE yourself.
OVER ANALYSE; isn't that called gaslighting, another term learnt, (nothing to do with illumination).
Couldn't have said it better myself!
Warren Moore how long shoukd you date. What no red flags. These oeople ar not that snart. Thats why you dont rush into a relationship with people. Including. Sex hello?
@@buffhotchkiss7400 these people come in different levels of intelligence. I don't know where the sex comment comes into play. Some narcs are truly geniuses, some idiots and everything in between.
Oh, you ain't never lied! They make you feel like you can approach them, that they're open books. It's a trap!
They start Off mild until they Bait you in
Bait and Switch persona 😣
Exactly. Dr. C
Bingo
Yes!! Bait and switch!!
torri yess you are so right! very mousy then BAM lying stealing your things shoving me around --- dont show happiness they will hate you more dont show them you feel sick or troubled they will love it this doctor has terrific videos and a big help to all of us thank-you
Yes I just had lunch w a friend today (it was nice cuz I wasn't allowed to have friends) and this friend said I noticed in your last picture of him (narc) he had a weird look on his face. This was towards the end of relationship at a concert. The narc could not fake being happy anymore w me.
Oh, they're "interested", alright lol...interested in having you *FULLY* serve their needs, meanwhile degrading, belittling, and blatantly disregarding yours. Their needs are the only valid ones.
Covert Narcissists are usually drifters. They recycle old supply because they aren't overt enough to find new supply. They stay local within their comfort zone. It's what I've noticed.
Could you explain that a little more?
I understand what Serby is saying. Overts can easily make new friends and pick up new supply. Coverts are “shy” and would prefer to put their victims through a comfortable devaluation and discard cycle over and over instead of trying to find someone new.
Insidious is one word that comes to mind here.
@@Ali-ws6mu Or just be with his friend. Because she is already in his circle. LAME ASS!🙄
Your comment is contradictory. If overts are moving around finding new supply, then they are more likely to be drifters by definition. Also, promiscuity is a trait of the psychopath.
People who want you to feel guilt, shame, or fear don't care about you. Walk away.
What I learned from my narcissist was that the passive-aggressive was a great way of telling themselves that because they 'weren't doing anything', that they couldn't possibly be doing something wrong. The fact that they have ignored you or completely shut down on you for several days and have ignored any pleas to come to the table to talk, sort things out, or just that you want to let them know that the silence is causing a lot of suffering - no, the lack of empathy means those kinds of appeals have little effect, and any accusations that they are doing something to hurt you leads them to tell you that they have done nothing - you are the one making their life difficult.
Mark Phillips . I think you nailed it . That explanation makes total sense. Thank you
I agree totally...but he pushed me too far..I want out permanently and I want despiritely to spoil his public image...He tore me apart and now I want revenge...then I’ll begin to heal and get reacquainted with ME...
Mark Phillips ...The silent treatment went on for weeks and when approached, he said he was only being quiet...Being quite and having the silent treatment played against you are two very different things...He always denied his actions...minimized any negative thing he did and made sure I took the blame
Your advice is the absolute truth. Had to break ties with a loved one like this.
Yes I keeps them holier than though whilst causing immense suffering. When I was a kid I couldn't take it, I'd beg to be back in the good books. Definitely made me feel there was no safe place growing up
Covert Narcissists are the most damaging to a person's mental and emotional health. I really feel I was on the verge of an emotional breakdown. The most dis
This summer, after invalidating my feelings and not being very nice, I lost it on my husband. He started calmly telling me that he thinks I'm very "emotionally unstable." After telling him that it's no wonder, since I'm in a crazy, toxic relationship, he kept repeating "Just keep justifying your emotional instability, Gillian. Just keep justifiying it.." over and over with a really weird, smug tone of voice. It isn't the first time he's used that "Justifying it" line--usually with tone dripping with condescension. Anyway, it got in my head so badly, that I nearly had a mental breakdown. I wound up on a friend's doorstep at 10:00pm completely hysterical, and then I fell into a 2 month depression. Great, now I'm proving him right... man, they really have a way of getting in your head. At least, mine does. I finally asked him to go stay out in our trailer, because I cannot deal with the craziness. The hard thing is, he has intermittent periods of awesomeness, which really throws me for a loop.
Anyway, I keep bombing the comments section...I guess I have a lot to get out...!
@@G2thesecondpower oh my gosh I feel for you and I know exactly what you mean with that smugness if theirs. You've got to get out. Don't fall for the love bombing phase when he draws you back in. You are stronger than you realise right now. My ex is a therapist!! He has wrecked my emotional life, driven me to suicidal thoughts and depression, emotionally abused me and our son...no one sees that but me...you need to get out and you can do it. Build and strengthen your network, start doing small things for yourself - don't ask permission - and build up to the bigger things then get away. Then no contact.
@@Arya-cf7vu thank you so much. I'm just now seeing your comment. Wow, your ex was a therapist? I bet that made him extra skilled at manipulating your emotions, yikes I am so sorry. As if your basic uneducated narcissists already dont have a preternatural ability to understand human psychology!
I've been through this for 12 years. It's so strange it's like we have two different relationships, this horrible abusive side and then this really fun side where we work well together. For years I thought if we could just fix the horrible side everything would be better... Now I know that the good times are all part of it.
I started researching years ago. I didn't come upon the idea of covert narcissism until they took passive aggressive personality disorder out of the DSM! after reading about eight books on narcissism and at least another 10 on verbal and emotional abuse--as well as coming to all these wonderful CZcams channels and comments sections on narcissistic abuse, it's finally sinking in that this is not going to change. Unfortunately I can't completely go no contact we have a child together, and our financial lives are very intertwined. It's a long story, but I'm working on untangling this knot and just detaching emotionally for the time being.
Thank you so much for the support; I don't know where I would be without these channels and all the validating comments and support in these sections! :) :) :)
@@G2thesecondpower I know what you mean by not being able to go no contact - I have a child with my ex too. But the grey rock thing really works - not engaging in their games, just being matter of fact and limiting yourself to text and email only to make child arrangements. Yes, sadly these covert narcissists can be therapists, teachers, doctors and religious leaders... (my ex was a teacher for 20 years and more recently qualified as a therapist, including hypnotherapy and nlp. ..makes me shudder - it's so wrong these people can be in positions of power and trust over vulnerable people. But it's excellent narcissistic supply for them and excellent cover :-(
@@Arya-cf7vu Yikes, I'm glad your away from your ex, he must have been really psychologically damaging. These types are so much harder to spot---especially when they're in "the caring" professions. I shudder...
Until my partner and I financially separate, I'm practicing "grey rock." I can still get sucked in when he's fun and nice--I recently had a three week vacation from him (he was working away from home) and I was finally feeling some peace and calm and really working on myself. When he came back, we had a talk and he seemed caring and reasonable, but then last night and this morning, my concerns over a matter where dismissed with impatient irritation, (he has this way of acting like my concerns are petty and ridiculous no matter how large or small they are) and I said to myself, "Thanks for the reminder, I'm going to re-erect my deflector shields and set my phasers to stun..."
Beware the wolf in sheep's clothing.
Precisely. Dr. C
They truly will never except blame for their faults and mistakes and are just not capable of or even really care what your thoughts are.
I'v learned to be a sheep in wolves clothing
Wolves are beautiful animals that don't wear another animal's skins, unlike most human beings... These kind of people are capable of wearing the personalities of the very people they have torn down. It would be great if these sort of people weren't put in the same category as wolves, even in metaphorical terms...🙁
@@EleaSuJa - Sounds psychotic.
Coverts are worse than overts, imo -- even bigger liars than an overt and more backstabbing and insidious. An overt is pretty much in your face with the "I'm better than you" attitude - the one thing the overt is "honest" about. The covert can't even be honest about that.
So right, Uncle. The coverts are slippery. Overts are bulls in the china shop. Dr. C
Yes. Cowards and coverts who hide everything
Ok, so this literally just happened. I'm sick, and I texted my husband to ask if he wouldn't mind picking up a bunch of Samosas at Thriftys (they're super cheap and my kid loves them for his school lunches) and a few other things on his way home from work. He came home and said he didn't have any money on him (tight month,) I have some cash, so I gave him $50 bucks. When he came back, I asked him if he'd remembered the Samosas. He said he didn't get them, because he had to get gas, which he hadn't mentioned he needed to do. I expressed some frustration, since we're out of easy school lunch food, and he goes on the attack "Oh, since when as are we sending (our son) to school with shitty processed food all the time!?" I called him out on his insult, and of course, he tried to tell me it wasn't a personal attack...uh, yes it was. I'm the one that buys the samosas. He can't ever be honest when he's being insulting, which can be frequent. Not to mention, I've been buying them for over a year, and he's never had a problem with them---in fact, he usually runs me out of them because he eats them himself. He also puts processed Cliff bars and other things in our sons lunch, and brings home sugary treats on a regular basis. So.... yeah. Its almost funny. If this kind of thing was a one off, I might chalk it up to him having a bad day, but I'm watching this video and o a lot of others like it, because sadly, it isn't.
@@G2thesecondpower ooohhh, you might have one on your hands. Smh
My mother's husband
"It's you who decides who you're going to be, not the narcissist deciding it on your behalf." Dr Carter, that is so incredibly powerful and absolutely on point. Tears of freedom.
Stick with that mindset! Dr. C
I have questioned if my husband was really a narcissist because he is not overt, but this literally describes him to a "T". The confusion, the cycles he would follow, the long periods of silent treatment, the covert hatefulness that I knew was there but could be hidden to everyone else. All the wasted times I tried to talk, reason or understand him all to no avail. So much wasted precious time given to try to make it work. The minute I figured it all out and stood up and said no more, the relationship was over, discarded like I was trash. I am so grateful for videos like this that have shown me truth and caused me to realize it was never about me. Now I can move forward and choose to have joy, be healthy and whole.
The discard is the worst...one minute your their best thing around and the next you are so way downgraded it's not funny. The confusion and trying to make them understand your view over such basic things is mind wrecking.
anddddd it's happening again with a new guy all because I don't accept his invitations to come over or respond much to his sexual innuendo text messages which he is hot and cold on and then after he's gone on and on about some girl he's been on dates with (only 2 apparently...yeah right) and says how he doesn't like her because she's too into god and he doesn't believe in god...yet he invited her to the tennis this weekend all the same...after a few minutes I then say, I like god...he goes a little quiet...he's not really asked me anything about me as he's always talking about himself so that smacked him one in the face...then ever since then he's so subtly less interested and now I get the down grade to we are just friends and give me space for a few weeks because your too full on at times...umm yeah usually that's in reaction to him and his strange behaviour and when I apologise he doesn't even acknowledge it, goes on to say he's taking his wife to the tennis (apparently the date didn't want to go...haha yeah funny that!) oh i know he's working a casual employee but he even he admitted he lost his recent job by pushing his employers up the wrong way. But of course he's making this downgrade out as my fault that he's not interested now...guess who used words full on in the first place?? I did! to him! when he was quick to try and get into my bed when we met and asking me out places twice in one week. then hot and cold with the sexual innuendo and saying ridiculously weird things like 'my phsyic told me i am a special and the woman in my life will require to be very patience with me' lol he's basically telling bat straight off the bat he is a narcissist...while calling his ex wife whom he is still seeing every few months one. Seriously f'd up. Of course I was trying to tell him that it's not exactly a turn on for me to keep hearing about his ex wife issues (still trying to make someone like this understand my point of view...i should know better by now right...) to which he proclaimed i was just making matters worse...matters that he is causing. Superiority 101...has to make himself feel good in rejecting me because he was already obviously being rejected by me...but no, in his eyes he is rejecting me haha and then well now, i am the one who has the problem because i sent too many messages...trying to make sense of his vague indirect message that he wants time alone...which felt more like....lets not be friends...hmmmm
@@Goldgirl1978 Ugh!!!!!! I don't think I ever want to date again. Out of that scene for 17 years, it's not even remotely appealing yet. Maybe someday, but the standards would be so high, so good luck. I think I will stick with it just being me, God and my kids. I like God. Lol
@@TheMandybug that's all just in your mindset. the first thing is to work on yourself and love of yourself which includes forgiveness of yourself and others...not forgetting what she did but forgiving her regardless. Once you can master that your own empathy will enlarge and you'll feel the desire to love again. It is not easy I know, i am single too for now...this is like the 3rd narcissist in my life but I'll stay open minded because I know the real deal exists out there somewhere and I'm a strong believer in law of attraction. Sometimes we meet these people a few times in order for us to learn the lesson which is to create stronger boundaries and to grow more as person to the point where these people don't even enter our lives or don't stay around long when they do. The most recent narcissist i met just 12 weeks after i left my ex narcissist and within 3 weeks he wants space because I am too full on. I am too full on because I have boundaries and i out right tell him how it is...see he won't stay around now because I am too much work and he cannot con me because I see right through him. You'll get there when you are ready :) best of luck. having said that, if being single truely keeps you happier (and it does me) then there is no problem with that either.
same with my grandmother. she wasn't grandiose - but this fits her.
I'm kinda laughing over the THUMBS DOWNS on this video...because, I'm imagining those dislikes are from Narcissists! LOL I actually had to laugh at that to keep from crying about what was said in your video. Been dealing with someone and I am in no position to break free for a while. I can't wait till this will be a thing in my past and I can fly again.
Good luck moving forward. In the interim I guess you'll get lots of practice in boundary setting. Dr. C
@@SurvivingNarcissism That part still scares me to death when I think about doing that .... when I attempt to, dear god my entire being feels sick and my mind feels like it checks out...in a desperate attempt to do the disappearing act. I keep practicing, tho. You have no idea how much i appreciate your talks...I always feel centered and more courageous by the end of your videos. THANK YOU!
@@rebelxapologist4505 you can do it darling! I never thought I could leave after 21 years of covert abuse resulting in my complete physical and emotional breakdown. It felt like my soul had been crushed, a covert narc can destroy a person without them even realizing its happening. But now you know, that is the first step to your freedom and one day you will get there. While I stayed, I built myself up slowly day by day, minute by minute, got a job eventually, saved money, learned to grey rock him, didn't give him the reactions he wanted and saved my energy for better things as I knew our relationship was more than over. Within a few years, I had enough strength and made the jump out on my own for the first time in my life. It's been over a year and I'm thriving. You will get there too!! I am proof that it can be done. So much love to you!! ❤️
A narcissist wouldnt even bother to look for self help vids onli e to dig deep into their soul so they wouldn't even be watching these vids or any self help vids because they are the shit and so cool and k knows everything about everyone😂
The idea of having to wait to "fly again" is an illusion. You can do that right now and whatever is holding you back will be happier and healthier as well.
Words that do not match actions is called manipulation .. .refusing to be held accountable for it is called gaslighting.
Excellent articulation of difficult things. Thank you.
A covert narcissist's manual could be entitled: How to Murder a Person's Soul Without a Word or Visible Weapon
Exactly. I worked for a woman who I discovered was a Covert. A previous coworker asked how I felt about her. I said, “Soul Murder” is how I would describe her management style. She had employees at home due to a disabled son. They all looked like zombies cuz she beat the shit out of their self esteem. I quit and she got vicious. I was a single mother just trying to survive. Run is my best advice.
I have a friend like this. She always very subtly makes me feel not quite up to par.
Dawn Stonerock Dont call anyone your friend.Our brain gets tricked into believing that they are safe.Most people who harm people are close to victim.
This is not how one should feel with a friend. Friends don't have to agree on everything but they should be able to express displeasure to each other without doing a character assassination on each other. Get rid.
Yes, my ex used to talk about grandiose future plans for a house, then when I said it sounds wonderful, we can do it together. He said “ well, Im not sure about that..”. Indirectly saying “im just with you because Im bored, but when I find my REAL woman then I will do all of this”. It was very hurtfull. A lot of mixed messages.
The feeling you get around these people is one that is so uncomfortable and uneasy. You just physically want to get away from them particularly if its a non romantic relationship, rather someone like your in law or another acquaintance. If someone asked me why i felt so queasy around my covert narc i honestly wasn't able to put my finger on it. So disturbing. Great work dr c
Thank you. Dr. C
True 💚👍 for me it was like being in contact with a dark negative entity, not a human being. Then my gut feeling, intuition tells me to go. Get away from it.
@@djdoolittle1315 This!!!!
This exactly. MIL is like that but I gave her the benefit of the doubt when I shouldn't have for so many years
Ayesha Behery exactly! !! that visceral gut feeling is queasy!
These. people. are
snakes
Narcissistic deserve death penalty .....The society may ignore about them but God knows everything is happening.....Word have worldly things ...People are just meant to be abused.......
Lorrie Kelly That’s an insult to snakes.
nope I love snakes, don't be mean to them
Yes. Dont get cheated 60 years like me-- he even tricked my son into a WHOLE SUMMER of work. Never paid him as promised
@@lilac624
"يوم يعض الظالم على يديه ويقول الكافر ياليتني كنت ترابا " صدق الله العظيم
These people have a disconnect with reality. It's purely magical thinking.
That's a good way of putting it. Dr. C
well said. disconnect - not plugged into what we call fair play, decency, manners, integrity etc - in other words life w normal ppl
I think they are disconnected from their feelings, not manners
I'm starting to feel like I've been playing magical thinking. It's too strange having lived with this man for 10 years and knowing him for 12-13. We have too children and he has struggled with work and life and our lives went from moderately stable and blew up. He has so many different silos of his personality story and none seem to make any sense. He has diagnosed PTSD and mood disorders but whoa the DARVO and reality inversion is crazy town. That they're so convinced and convincing is just fascinatingly terrifying.
In my experience, the covert narcissist isn't necessarily playing a game; instead they are covering up deep insecurity with these behaviors. The covert in my life certainly thinks of themself as a misunderstood and unappreciated genius who never had the opportunity to achieve the greatness they deserve. I was one of the only people who could keep up with them intellectually, but as an empath I worked way too hard to make them feel better about themselves, which left me doing all the emotional (and other) labor and receiving almost nothing in return. The lack of attention and intimacy was very painful, but it wasn't about game-playing for them; instead it was about protecting their wounded ego because they couldn't bear to be vulnerable.
💯💯💯facts
Me with my ex!
Ditto!
Brilliant comment
Sounds so familiar.
Brilliant ! They also triangulate to make people feel insecure about what they bring to the relationship !
This happens a lot
Codependents be aware the covert narc will use anger traps to make you seem like the overt one out control. It shifts blam and focus away from them onto you and if you are anything like me and have been with that person 8 years or so, it can leave the codependent feeling ridden with guilt and concern they are at fault; even when the rational layout of events transpired to both sides of parties actions you will find your actions were all reactions to the extreme avoidance in the narcissist.
Don't forget N's taking advantage of our louder than normal inner critic by gaslighting the ever living funk out of us.
Well stated, Dr. C
MrSk8erkbw, I think I understand what you mean, but hope to ask for your insight about a situation to see if I have this right in terms of what you expressed. A couple weeks ago an acquaintance popped over our house with her dog. It was out of the blue, and both my spouse and I were busy working on different projects, but we tried to be courteous. Suddenly, it was as if chaos ensued in every direction. She started talking very fast and was all over the place. The door was open on the porch, and before I could clarify what she was talking about, her dog starts barking came into our house and nipped me on the leg. Being a dog person, I brushed it off, but asked if she could please put her dog in her car. She then gets her phone out and starts taking pictures of us and our kitchen, and I'm like...wth? So I motion for us to go walk out to her car, to see her off. This person had been asked to call first before popping over...not once but twice. After she finally left, I found myself feeling so annoyed and angry internally. But I didn't know who I was more angry at: myself, her, or her stinking dog. lol. Its like she swept in, totally violated our space and boundaries, swirled chaos on our peaceful day. I could be wrong, but since we had asked her to call first....this felt like a deliberate effort to stir up chaos. It was so confusing. In your opinion, is this kindof what you were saying? Is there anything you would have handled differently? Thanks for anything you feel led to share. :)
Coffee Barista While stating the obvious first, I was not there and did not experience the situation. Was her conversation sensley frantic or was something important or hard happening to her? Based on what you are saying I feel like her actions were actions of an avoidant personality seeking attention when they’ve internalized the need to call and hang out. Some people will allow those neurotic behaviors to thrive. I fall victim to such concerns instilled from familial emotional and peer physical trauma in my youth. However, I try to find more healthy ways that I am comfortable with for approaching new social acquaintances. The important thing to remember before calling someone out on being a Narc is that often empathic codependents will begin to assume the narcissists behaviors has their own. Sometimes in reaching out to people they can seem on edge. I can say this from experience as I am having to snuff out my ex’s ways of thinking about the environment from what I know to be true to my own from my experiences in my entire life prior to the long but actually very recent and brief 8 years.
Again, you know your situation best, it very well could have been deliberate narcissistic behavior. It seems she took photos your place after the dog bit you for what ever insurance concerns possibly, or this person is detective sorts lol and you are suspects lol.
Like I said, you the situation best, you and significant other set boundaries and the person deliberately broke them to satisfy their own warped needs. Her actions none the less were very overt in nature. Covert Abuse is more like Tom cruise in mission impossible when has those perfectly made masks with the voice modulator microchip taped to his neck. The person shows up like prince charming and often to those in need of saving, in other words in an emotional low point. Like Dr. C says they pretend to be mature and emotionally developed but as time progress your eyes cross more and more in your interactions with them. I just wish I knew these signs when I was 21.
Surviving Narcissism Do you have a video on tips for getting back into you body after re-closuring the childhood traumas brought back to the surface by relationship with the narcissist? I have a very optimistic mind and it has never been much of an issue to put the past to bed, my issues are the physical symptoms that arise as responses to our environment, i.e: issues with public restrooms, peer confrontation, etc.
It’s like I have the healthy thoughts be nurtured but I don’t know how to react differently and when I fail to react adequately the symptoms get worse. Truly self damming.
"Disdain" has been my Narcs middle name from day one. Even when he was love bombing me in the beginning, I would always pick up on that sense of disdain in his eyes, that he would let slip at guarded moments. It would always leave me feeling, even through all the love bombing, that he couldn't be trusted, and my contempt for him started almost immediately.
It sounds like you went along with it for some time, even though you saw through it?
I had to. I worked with the guy, still work with him actually, so I had to maintain a cordial relationship as best I could. It's not been easy though. If I had met this guy in s bar, or some other kind of social situation I would have never given him the time of day.
FRTPGIRL exactly SMART
FRTPGIRL creepy user
myfav0s2012 yes exactly!
1. False sense of humility - false feeling of approachability
a. early impression of modesty
b. not argumentative in the early stages of the relationship
c.modesty is a disguise
d. hidden superiority and entitlement
2. strongly dislike having their weaknesses known - strongly dislike feeling vulnerable
3. withdrawn self-centeredness
a. they shut down when offended
4. lack of empathy
a. I just don't feel the need to know you
b. I don't find you interesting
c. cold,disinterested, uncaring
5. sense of aloofness and smugness
a. my way of thinking is pretty good, so why would I need you?
6. portray themselves as misunderstood special persons
a. I have awareness and insights you don't have
b. you don't know life the way I do
c. they dont need to explain things to you
7. lots of passive-aggressive behavior!
a. leave the room, stoney cold stares
b. evasive + refusal to speak
--> control with the least amount of vulnerability
8. disconnect between head and heart
My narcissist would ram me as he walked by me, without ever saying sorry, until one day when I pushed him back. He was dumbfounded and never said a word.
My ex would "accidentally" whack me in the head many nights as he tossed and turned. I called him out for doing it on purpose. He totally denied doing it on purpose...but it never happened again.
Christian One wow ! Interesting this has happened
Shady, sneaky, untrustworthy, dishonest....Covert to the bone....that's what I was with.
Paula Dsilva me too all the those plus so abusive
Me to he walked out his every step to the letter its insane
@@1MacDog my hubby was gay; lived a secret double life.
Sneaky yes.
Michaela Turner MA ooh no .. sorry to hear that...smh.
Very interesting and well-observed! It's nice to see someone showing empathy for the distress that this passive aggressive behaviour causes in the person on the receiving end as, so often, the person suffering is seen as overreacting. The covert narcissist is seen as sweetness and light, while the person they're doing their passive aggression on appears to be moaning about nothing. It is real and it's so stressful and unsettling.
The key words you used were "is seen as." With the covert N, what you see is not necessarily what you get. Dr. C
@@SurvivingNarcissism : Precisely!
Oh man. My sig. other will be so hurtful or disrespectful, and 5 freaking minutes later, he's fine. He'll pass me by when I'm still upset or crying (that's right, I'm still working on my Teflon shield.) and he'll say, "What, are you still upset?" No one else sees or hears what happens, so he acts like I'm the crazy and dramatic one that can't just get over some "teensy comment," and other people buy it. It's the most god damn frustrating thing I've ever been through in my life.
It's sad when the Covert Narc is your mother. I wish I'd known this when I was living with my mom in my early 20's. Growing up, she never wanted me to be myself. She'd go out of her way to make sure I couldn't be me. Then when I moved back in with her after having some independence, she made my life a living hell and I didn't even really see what was going on because her behavior was always normalized by our family. After that, it was a long slew of relationships with people who were just like her. Every time I got a glimpse of freedom, another narc would rope me back in to compliance. I'm 42 now and still trying to repair the damage and figure out how to be me. It's so freaking hard because I don't have a baseline to work from, save for fragments of moments from my childhood when my true self snuck through (even though I was usually punished for it.) A lot of people are quick to say "just do it!" but it's not that easy when the fake, safe me is all I've ever known. Ugh.
Yes I know what you mean. I've been with one for 40 years. I left in 2010. What I did is I asked God for a clean heart and right thinking. That's when I discovered these videos and I read my Bible all the time. And he created us to be unique. He will begin healing you and showing you how this has affected you. You will begin to remember bits and pieces of Who You Are inside from childhood on.
The Overt Narc is my father, the covert narc is my sister, and I had to cut them both loose. After that my sanity was restored.
This sounds so familiar I had to check it wasn't my username. I'm also 42 and can't believe the fallout I'm still having to clean up. Mentally and emotionally I'm very independent. So it doesn't bother me that being be was never good enough. But what I really struggle with are the legal and financial troubles I'm still in as the result of my misguided loyalty. The extremes I have to go to, to make things right are mind-boggling.
Maybe try to remember memories from your childhood that made you happy or with friends could help
I am on your page, he says just be yourself but then will turn around and say something like I’ve been acting weird and accusations start coming out of the wood works . I just give him a dumb found look and try to just realize he is delusional and makes things up as he goes . Most likely because he is doing the stuff he is accusing me of . Cheating ext.
Excellent, message. Thank you. . I was married to a Narcissist years ago. And, I just let go of a friend who is a Narcissist! The Serenity Prayer has helped me.
Leave them or they will run you into the ground! There will never be any resolution of any kind. You'll be wasting precious time and energy.
Run!
Your health and happiness depends on it!!
Thanks. Doc!
There's complete lack of recognition of the victim's achievements and contributions, or outright dismissal with a denigrators comment.
This unfortunately helped confirm a suspicion about my partner. At least i have a term for it now. It's not my imagination.
I assumed narcissists were all overt - grandiose, extrovert, Type A personality. So when I met a covert COLLAPSED narcissist, I had no clue. Thought he was an introverted, nerdy fellow who was going through a difficult patch, and found a supportive ear in me. It was the worst experience of my life.
I think the bottom line here is if the covert narcissist is your spouse or significant other - forget it, just get away from them before they completely ruin your life. I wasted 10 years! If it’s a family member or co- worker then you’re going have to learn ways of navigating around them.
Co-workers?=transferred and starting at new location in a week
Family?=started no-contact one week ago
I'm at peace now. Waiting for the smear campaign by the family member, but I'll cross that bridge when it happens.
I have two young children and can't get away. I have to navigate their safety and wellbeing alone as well as my own
20 years…😢yes run!
16 year with a covert narc and im still trying to undo the damage caused 3 month later. Everytime i think ive got a handle on the situation, bam! something else appears from the past. Looking back I can see the pattern forming and I wholeheartedly put this on par with grooming. The recovery is like PTSD, its awful because you just cant put it to bed. Imagine peeling an onion layer by layer....thats what covert narc recovery is like!! Very dangerous people.
30 years married. Everything I did sub standard, no praise, silent treatment. My contribution never good enough. Hated me socialising and having friends and enjoying myself. Almost divorced now and am happy but still dealing with a type of PTSD which led to anxiety and low self worth. They devalue you and blame you for everything. Communication zero, like living with a brick wall. They blank you but all the time taking notes, noting your faults so they appear perfect and faultless. Could not be my true self. They chip away at you, bit by bit. He accused me of using my anxiety to get what I wanted but all my panic attacks were with him. He thought I was crazy and I started to believe it. I have moved on, have a new partner, recovery is slow but getting there. It can be done, just believe in yourself.
People sometimes act unless the narcissist is blatantly mean it doesn’t matter but this is so cruel in its form for sure !
Every narc is different. For me, this person after many many years of closeness showed zero empathy for me when I lost my dad. I was mourning and told them. And they never even said I’m sorry you lost your dad. And even when I called it they still didn’t.
We had a tight relationship for years but I began to see this as the years past. This person is sociable and even fun. Agreeable to the world but with you they are distant emotionally. It’s so strange.
Strange indeed. Sounds like he's one way in public and quite different behind the scenes. The definition of character is who you are when you are not in the public eye. Dr. C
Deborah Bonney I went thru the same with my ex. She was so different at work than at home. She is very sociable at work. Kisses the managers behinds and anyone’s else she wants praise from. She would constantly compliment others women and never give me kudos. Like it pained her to tell me anything nice. She also was unable to say “sorry”. And yet, I would see her saying sorry to others. Then at home, total silence. Hardly would open up to me and talk. Regressed herself emotionally. Silent treatment at times. Would even drive away from me mid sentence when I would discuss how her behavior made me feel. No empathy nor ability of ownership for her bad behavior. Very emotionally abusive. I would catch her rolling her eyes at comments I would make or that ogres would make. Very passive aggressive. She literally would walk away or raise her voice if I ever attempted to call her out on her insensitive/rude behaviors towards me. She wouldn’t even comment when I’d call her out on it. Like I didn’t need an explanation. However, at work, or with her friends, plays the victims role constantly. They think she is so sweet.
Deborah Bonney Maybe this person is not a real narcissist.
Sounds like Deb finally hit the devalue stage and her narc had another side piece he wanted to move on with. They wont just cut their main source if supply loose. They have to draw it out.
I think they call that a high functioning narcissist. They are just better at what they do (acting) but still likely a black heart like the rest of their kind. Some of them maybe aren’t full on NPD as well, or not as high range or full blown, but they can still be very toxic to be around.
This man just summed up 55 years with a father and a grandmother and 2 brothers who were 110% evil and awful and ruined everything in peoples lives. Thank the Lord, I became like my mother and have the compassion and empathy for others. Sadly, my mom passed last year and my father 9 months later and I am now learning to live life without drama, stress and hatefulness every time I was forced to be in the same ZIP CODE as the 4 of them. I put up with so much to see my sweet mother that I loved and she put up with so much in 55 years. I have watched all of Dr. Carter's videos here and I CAN NOT STRESS 100% SPOT ON as he talked. I feel like a huge elephant is now off my chest and I can now choose to simply cut people out of my daily life that are EVIL. Thank you very, very much for laying this all out to get a final huge picture of what I will not be like and choose to break that dysfunctional cycle that plagued this family.
I cut my father and sister( one overt narc and one covert narc) out of my life 3 years ago, and I haven't been happier.
Dr.les, ...how is it that with others aroumd me they always win?
I don't think I have the words to agree with you child that really cover my true and agonizing empathy with what you have said. ! ! !
Sending you so much compassion and wishes for beauty in your life. You are amazingly strong and resilient, and blessed* to have made it to the place you have in your development. Thank God every day for your strength of spirit and inner rightness 🙏🏽 may you be surrounded by good people who share your good heart and likeness
My covert narcissist husband of 24 years is well trained in appearing to care. He always knows the right thing to say. Then you realize that he wasn't listening and asks no probing questions, and when you look into his eyes, he looks bored. We can have a conversation about my plans five times prior to the event. Then the day of the event, he will claim that he had no idea that I planned on doing whatever it is that I'm doing. Sometimes I think he remembers but is crazing-making. Sometimes I wonder if it's because he truly wasn't listening, even though he's looking me in the eye while I speak.
Same has happened to me. Its his way to ruin my plans and make me think of him the entire time because he doesn't want to lose me. The narc has attendance to ruin all plans and make you feel guilty for doing what makes you feel good! I have tons of times my narc has done this to me and I hated every moment.
Lights on nobody home! Definitely knew what to say, but no action behind it, I get it! Mine would ask what I want from the store n not bring it back!!!!
L8blumR same here! Mine will constantly yawn if I am trying to talk about feelings or if I am showing emotion in conversation 🤦🏻♀️
Mine just looks at his phone. He has sabotaged me every chance he gets.
Fran: The late covert narcissist I was married to for 24 years was exactly the same. Had he not gotten diagnosed with cancer I might not have survived.
Im not a narcissist and wouldn't want people knowing my needs. Because it puts you in a position to be taken advantage of and preyed upon by malicious predators. Who will exploit your needs for leverage and extort things they want from you.
Yeah, I think that it's important to distinguish covert narcissists from people with trust issues.
You aren’t looking to be authentic within a relationship. You need vulnerability
They act nice till one gets to really know their true character. Bit part actors!
Harshness and Cold!! Calling names with no remorse!
They're awful to be around.
RUN!!
I have two covert narcissists in my immediate family. Both of them formed a small clique and constantly feed off of each other. They spend a lot of time gossiping, causing unnecessary drama and manipulating other family members. It's not fun having them around.
All so true. Married 57 years, still, to a covert. I didn't make the connection until I was felled with a chronic disease 10 years ago. As I look back, it has always been him first. Doesn't reveal his feelings...Im not even sure he ever looks into himself. Self-absorbed and doesn't care about anything that doesn't involve him, including taking care of me for smallest thing like acting put out to get me a glass of water, covering me with a blanket, locking the doors at night, helping me sort my pills, feeding the dog...Very passive-aggressive...evasive, walks out of room, doesn't get around to doing simple things promised for 3 or 4 years--like changing a lightbulb I can't reach. Not a team player EVER (I had assumed team-playership since childhood so took me 40 years to see it on even the smallest thing). Always a flimsy excuse or joke to explain everything he didn't do, say, share, etc. has helped to lower expectations and ignore ignore ignore his remarks and slights...in fact, expect them.
Wowww this sounds so much like mine!! Everything down to the light bulb and physical illness. I'm so sorry you're going through this too. I got out a year ago after 21 years, I know there are many road blocks and fear but you can do it too. I was so worried how I would live on my own being sick but I have never felt better in my life being away from that negative energy. I had no idea how much he was affecting me until I was out of it for awhile and had run ins with him. I got instantly sick to my stomach and felt like I would vomit. Their energy is powerful and it's doing you more harm than good. I know you will get out one day and be free. Sending you so so so so much love, you beautiful, brave soul. ❤️🙏
Ivanalese Sappho : OMG you just described my 45 year relationship with a narcissist. He's also an excellent game player.
Mine was the worst..he left me when I was diagnosed with cancer..
Ivanalese Sappho I shattered my left heel several years ago, the worst pain ever and couldn't walk for over 4 months and then only with a special boot on. My ex narcissist wife would just walk right past me, never asked if I needed anything, water, food...she even took away my crutches and said the dog did....A few times after hours without water I literally crawled to the kitchen, she was gone morning til night. These "people" have no feelings and are cruel.
Bob smith.. Same with my husband..I have symptoms of severe nose bleeding and just look at me..and I have fever on and off for two week and didn't brought me to the clinic..I ask him he said he is tired or busy..even he have insurance..he said just take Tylenol..I cannot go alone because I'm new here in the US..so it happens that I talk to my bestfriend about it and she text him..he's so mad at me cussing at me and yelling..telling me that I talk sh*t to my friend about him..I feel so bad that I left the house and met the wife of his friend in secret to bring me to the shelter..so then one of the staff there brought me to emergency..I was diagnosed with leukemia..was hospitalize he didn't spend any cents..while I'm at the hospital he brought another woman in the house and live with her until now..
I just went no contact with a covert narcissist. Best decision I ever made
Narcs are pieces of work, I'll give 'em that. I knew one who had a mother that drove the father into an early grave! Her mother wore a 24-hour-a-day sunny "everything is wonderful" look on her face, but in private the whole family were walking on eggshells at home to keep the peace.
Same here
This describes a new co-worker perfectly. Everyone thinks she is so nice. But those of us who are on to her know better. She is vile. And now she is blaming her inability to do the job on the four of us who are on to her game. She is complaining to HR that she is being bullied and THAT'S why her work is so bad.
Fortunately I have a lot of experience with her type and know how to turn her tactics around on her. It's almost fun.
ghost 305 How do you do that?
My ex aunt and mentor. I call her Jezebel. People die all around her. Just drop like flies. My beloved 2 cousins both dead at 49 and 51. My uncle, her ex dead at 50. Her latest who finally left her might’ve made it to around 70, but he left her psycho ass first and didn’t marry her til later in life. SMDH. She killed my soul also and no telling who else she slaughtered as a “minister.” She is a murderer and the carnage goes on for miles and miles and miles. Blood all over the streets.
ghost 305 Yes. Do tell. Lol. I’ve gotten a few licks in myself on a couple of them also.
The more you get to know them..... the more you get to know them!
Listen people this video is absolutely on point!!!!! Thk u.
In hindsight, what obliterated my mind, was succumbing to the shock of a Tourettes like rage, over nothings. Your stone cold stunned. Ofcourse that was always out of sight of any witness. When you least expect it. It beat me into a compliant state just not wanting another assault. I can't believe what I put up with. Romantic relationship attempts the worse. Lesson learned. All from a 125lb Hitler/Mussulini wanna be. Even her colleges called her a perfect Nazi. 54 years old with a trail of destruction. No long term relationship ever. A total disconnect from any societal norms yet a country club elitist. It's all image. It's all fake. It's all about your supply capabilities. I would think the stress, backs stabbed & lives assaulted would have caught up by now. It seems there is an immunity to stress that would kill a normal person. The elixir is the narc mind. Projection, blame shifting, the lack of remorse, the thrill of the empath kill. One after another after another.... Btw Dr. Always great info.
Thanks for the comments, Brad! Dr. C
You're describing a borderline (BPD) covert narc who's got zero impulse control. Mask rips off in narc rage soon as you expose them. Then they go from 0 to 100 immediately...like suddenly a rabid demon.
@@user-rh5yf2wz8l I believe with everything I have learned you are correct. At least a comorbidity. Not playing doctor here but I've got enoughjoumaled to back it up. At the grand finale I asked her if she knew what a borderline is ? She just plopped her head down on table. Was not like her to not immediately rage. How many times can they outright lie to your face ? Answer. Everytime.
Not that pointing a finger or a label matters, but to fully understand a.b.a.p. as well as a good introspection as well as what boundaryless means. Grieving widower meets serial offender. History don't lie.
Brad McEwen wow you nailed it. We were going along so nicely at first... He seemed so kind and caring, so attentive and grateful for every thing, then, blam! red-faced, spitting rage from out of nowhere!! Literally out of nowhere!! Naturally shock. And while I stuttered out that I didn't even know he was upset until he was yelling at me, I was told that I was barbaric in my inability to read the signs. There were no signs. and of course, he was always perfectly Pleasant around other people, you never saw him upset if there were other people around to witness it. he was old and bitter and fat and never had any lasting relationships, I was Slender and 20 years younger, by the time I was three years in, the gun the bad habit of drinking too much... Probably a sad attempt at coping... and gained quite a bit of weight. when I would cut down, or quit drinking, he would buy me alcohol and also hide alcohol around my house for me to find, as he called it a treat. multiple times whenever I started to go on a diet, he would surprise me with Donuts or fast food at 11 p.m.,. 9 years in I was 60 pounds overweight with a broken emotional compass and lower self-esteem than I've ever had. I'm still not sure how I got out of there. Except that I finally got so pissed there was no stopping me. lucky for me, being fat makes me cranky. LOL.
Waking up is a glorious experience. Its too bad that the lowest lows must be experienced before self preservation kicks in. I got a feeling we'll never give that much of ourselves away again back to a civilized life. Its so important the experience does not taint our new & established interactions unless knowledge gained indicates an exit is in order.
My partner loved talking about his weaknesses and how “sensitive” he was. Further proof that he was more evolved than the rest of us.
OR they'll play the game of the outraged victim who is constantly being done wrong by others so they can say they "aren't like that and would never do anyone that way!" thus implying they're "morally superior" to everyone else.
I'm sure there's lots more variations of these ego trips.
And what do you think happens when you try to "establish yourself as other?" Yes, that's right. They will discard at this point. They have no use for someone operating on their own program. Even if you just start with this in small ways, your days are numbered. I tried this 5 times, and I was discarded within a week or two every time. She was a particularly attractive female, and did have many qualities that drew me in, so I was weak in the sense that she had called my bluff, and I would go back and basically apologize for the attempt at being myself, promising not to do that again, then she would take me back. On the last time, it had been 6 months, I decided to start dating. The day after I posted my dating profile, she called me and brought me back into the relationship. This denial of myself for this person has caused deep psychological damage that I'm still trying to sort through a year later. These people appear to be the most amazing people, but are in fact extremely dangerous.
I raised four kids with a covert narcissist. He played all those games. It took me too many years trying to get through to him thinking he just didn’t get what a great gift they were to have in our life. I always felt like we could be beamed up Star Trek style and replaced with another family and he wouldn’t skip a beat. Eventually I left when the kids were older and he moved out west, back to his family of origin. Our kids try to keep in touch with him, but he takes forever to respond, if at all. My (our?) only grandchild is turning two shortly, and Im not sure he even knows his name. They send pictures but he has never once asked about him. Sadly, my kids are now beginning to see what I was going through when they were young. My two sons, great as they are would probably have done better with no father on the scene, than a ghost in the background acting peeved and put upon all the time.
Very sad story. My heart goes out to you. Dr. C
That was my dad. Always ignored me or acted like I was this annoying thing in the background
Only discovered my mother to be a covert narcissist this year after looking at the ' drip drip ' of confusing selfish unsympathetic behaviours. It's been a revelation, but not a good one. I've had to mourn who I thought was my mother while she is still alive.
This was(IS) so enlightening! My long time 'former' BFF has all these covert traits, but SHE comes off very sweet, accepting, perfectly gracious, and just a little (cute)"dumb-blond" , -to be 'forgivable' about anything she is called out on. However she is very sneaky, calculating, intelligent, extremely competitive and self-interested, & doesnt do a damn thing for anyone (but rather uses everyone), including not even sharing information on health or ANYTHING that she finds to be a benefit to her life. And she strings people along even when she doesnt want them anymore (but she thinks she possibly may, in the future). That sweet,innocent ruse throws everyone off but you just know you never really feel the love being returned.
I’ve just realised that a “close” female friend is a covert. Something hadn’t felt right for a while. Now it all makes sense. I’ve had to go no contact and feeling much better. I’m ignoring the gas lighting and just trying to get on with my life. So tempting to tell her how I feel, but have realised there is absolutely no point. She’ll never understand. Only thing I’m going to say to her when she starts to hoover is “I believe what you give out in life is what you receive. She is now receiving what she gave to the friendship. Absolutely nothing!!” Thank you so much for the video. Really informative
My mother. They have this weird mix of admiration and envy of us and are such experts at going undetected.
So other features of narcissism may be self-righteousness, inability to accept blame or accountability, and also the inability to apologize for actions. If one "apologizes" ("all right--I'm sorry!") with authenticity, then one would have to admit wrong-doing, so that cannot happen. Would these features also be co-occurring? You are learned your trade well and have found your gift, indeed! ✨✨✨✨✨
You're on target with your insights...and thanks for the encouraging words. Dr. C
Never, ever do they apologize. You are correct that these are all characteristics of the narcissist. And while they never accept blame, or are ever accountable, at the same time, they are the victim. ALWAYS, the victim.
I'd have to disagree with the statement that they NEVER apologize. I believe they will sometimes apologize. They just don't mean it. They only say it when they know they have to, to get back into your good graces.
Robert Silvis So you’re saying that they offer a false apology to manipulate one or the situation, perhaps? True apologies really cannot or will not come from them. Any empty apology will be a tool for them. They will quickly recover and forget it like it never happened.
@@Gigi-nv5ev That's exactly what I'm saying. They'll sometimes mouth empty words, to manipulate you, or to "look good".
Good teaching! Very helpful. My downstairs female neighbor is a covert narc. When I first moved in, she was in my face daily for several months. I tried to be friendly with her, but she informed me she had been previously a manager at the apartment complex I'm now in, and began to boss and try to control me daily in various ways. She also went after half of my monthly income, and wouldn't quit. I finally confronted her, and she instantly cut me off and wouldn't speak for months. I decided I didn't want anything to do with her; she doesn't make me feel safe and secure.
Here's a simple indicator: when you are involved with someone if you find yourself frequently confused, bewildered, at wits end, your head spinning by what they say and do, feel depleted most of the time, and find yourself having to pick your words carefully, and walk on eggshells so you avoid triggering their insecurities and thus getting their rage, get blamed for everything, take no ownership of their issues, hijack whatever it is you present to them and make it all about them instead, those are all signs you are involved with a covert narcissist ...
May I offer a thought to your viewers, Doctor Les? I had become quite an expert at walking on eggshells for over 40 years before I finally began to educate myself about narcissism. Now I still walk on eggshells, but they are MY OWN EGGSHELLS. In other words, I consider how such and such a decision or course of action will affect ME, not just HIM! (Forgive the caps, just using them for emphasis.) Thinking of them as my own eggshells helps me remember that my feelings, opinions, judgement, preferences, etc. should be my primary consideration in life. It is making me more aware of my own feelings, and that I am entitled to them. It is a whole new concept for me, and it is going to take practice, but I like it! I would love to see a movement among fellow survivors: "I walk on my own eggshells!"
There's great wisdom here. Good point.
I'm on board with you! Dr. C
I love this! I have walked on HIS eggshells for 28 years! He will pout and withdrawal no matter what I do. So might as well make choices that make me happy.
I WALK ON MY OWN EGGSHELLS!
Yay, Shannon!!!!
Oh my gosh. I am bawling right now! I've been married to a covert narcissist for 13 years. I feel hollowed out beyond hope. I've been researching covert narcissism for months but this is the first time I've heard it said aloud by an expert. I listened to it 3 times in a row and it confirmed all my suspicions.
Stay with us. The goal is to provide insight. Thanks for your comments. Dr. C
🙏🏽❤️ I hope you are okay Dana
Your lucky to only have 9 years in. I have been married for 48 years and just found out what was wrong with my husband. And found out I was co dependent too. In my situation I will stay and confronting him has helped so much. Now he makes very small efforts to change and recognize my feelings are valid and I am not crazy. This is hurtful to find out but we are now working on both of us to be more independent of each . I am treating him the same way he treats me. You want silence.... I can give you all the silence you need. After a year he began to realize what I was feeling. I look at it as a mental health problem and we are working it out. I sure would not have stayed if someone had clued me in! I have suffered lost of esteem, and had thoughts of ending it all thru the years. Even with knowledge he suffers trying to communicate, it has been extremely hard the past years! It has gotten so much better with treatment for both of us.
@@bls837 9 years is terrible as well, you asked for that 48 years and you got it...should've left after 9, alot smarter.
Thank you so much for these videos! You got me out of a nasty covert relationship (he was exactly like this video describes). I am now dating a very nice guy who is very kind, and we have a great time together. Would not have had the understanding to leave without your videos.
Very good analysis. Be careful people. It's dangerous out there.
I'm so exhausted but thank you for giving me the strength to carry on. DRC x
I feel like they're holding me in disdain! 😮😮😮 That.
veggiesforlife
Me, too. I aways felt like deep down hated my guts! Sad.
Me too
"Some werewolves are hairy on the inside." ~Stephen King
Coming to terms is a great explanation for the awakening that occurs in the narcissists victim.
This is such an accurate video Dr Cater. I been wondering if you don't mind, how do
you get to know so much about this disorder ? You really have it down packed to such
a degree that you may have had to deal with them yourself, or your just plain good at what you do with out the experience of actually dealing with them -- A lot of therapist do NOT know about this disorder..... is it in the DSM ? You have a way of conveying this disorder with such kindness, honesty, but with so much dignity in tact -- you really are special. Thank God for you.
Wow! Thanks for these comments. I've been in counseling so long that I've seen just about every kind of relationship dysfunction. Historically, my greater emphasis has been on anger management, but the narcissist kept popping up, so I followed the trail. BTW, I've known a few in my personal life as well. We therapists have to deal with it too on a personal level. Dr. C
OceanSound100 thats true am amazed as he describes these dynamics to the letter. Its yes yes yes.
1 most psychologists had a whole chapter on NPD. That's it! Even if they do come across an NPD, they might not even recognize it because they're so good at acting.
2 many psychologists cover for them on purpose because they're NPD also! What better profession to get into than one that teaches you how to control other people's minds even better while providing the best plausible deniability mask ever? Beware!!!
@@asktheetruscans9857 That's a good point and i will watch when i choose
a psychologist out there - thanks
Anthony Raynes thanx for mentioning this- nobody ever does and its so annoying that it seems to be assumed therapists are some sort of perfect people who are beyond having this. I had a therapist who was, -i am now pretty sure after much pain and research,- a covert narc, and as you say he was in fact exploiting his position and lack of accountability, gave me as much or more problems and pain than i may have had when i met him. What can be done about this?! And i am curious how you got to know about narc therapists when it does not seem to even occur to people? I wonder if a video could please be made about this topic as it is so damaging since it occurs with credibility, in private behind closed doors, and with no accountability?
BUT, They do show you their so-called humanity and "humility" but it's only to get your sympathy for them which gets them supply ..AND by showing how so-called humble and good and honest they are it also is a way to brag about their "superiority"
Spot on. Dr. C
My sister is narcissistic and histrionic. I’ve gone no contact with her. She is horrible and done some really horrible things. My mother is covert, my brother is narcissistic and father was overt. When my son was diagnosed with a severe disability my siblings stopped talking to me, my mother told me not to tell anyone then began treating me like I was an undesirable person, and my father pulled me aside to tell me that if I thought this issue with my son was going to affect his life in anyway I had another thing coming. I was the scapegoat and horribly abused and neglected by all of them. I’m now 57, my son is severely disabled and requires our care 24/7. He’s now 27. I’ve gone no contact with my sister and minimal phone contact with my brother and mother. My father passed away. Your videos have really helped me on this healing process. It’s very hard when your mother is this way since we all seek love from our mother. Unfortunately mothers like this are literally incapable of loving. My mother can’t even say she loves you. I truly feel sorry for them. The three of them, mother, brother, and sister, all cling together blaming me for all the family problems. They are masters at gaslighting. It feels sooo freeing to finally see this and know without a doubt it’s not me!!!
Hey Dr. C, you may never get this message but I will put it here anyway. I am beginning to believe my partner of over 9-years is a covert narcissist. I am in a bit of shock over this possible discovery, but also know things haven't felt right in a very long time. Thank you for your work. Somehow the Universe drew me to your videos...
Hi Jennifer. So pleased you were led to our channel, and I'm hopeful you will find it useful. Dr. C
Wow, you've done a wonderful job of describing my father. I'm in my 60's and just coming to some realizations that I'm not the weak, shitty person I was taught to believe I was. That is a lot of wasted time. I'm now suffering with how to start life at this age. No friends; No family.
I wish you well on your journey friend❤️
Pretty good discussion! My covert husband could care less about my priorities as long as I don’t involve him. He has enough of a challenge just to literally sit down and physically pay the bills. His life outside of work is his cell phone surfing and on his iPad. You hit the nail on the head t-totally.
Wow. This is brilliant. I’ve never heard this distinction of Covert Narcissist. Makes so much sense. 👍
What truly makes this devestating, is that, as a victim of childhood narc abuse, I thought I was so clued up, and the stupid thing is I was not totally oblivious, just finding out that this was a bit different from the abuse I knew; but I’ve come to learn just how varied the nature of this abuse can turn out. I guess for me it is different because initially it was my caregivers/parents and family members who were the abusers, and now it has been a man I had a strong energetic connection with. Obviously the nature has been a bit different now, but certain little things remained the same, (the degrading and subtle insults) reminding me of the mannerisms of people from my childhood. I honestly agree that the problem is that society stereo-types narcissists as just these really loud and brash, over confident and smart-ass talking movie types in the most showy outfits, who thrive on status, who make it clear they believe they are above everyone.
But I will say, that truly the ones who are most dangerous are not those ‘overt’, but the ‘covert’ types. I have no words for what I’ve been through; to hell and back, and continued to go back for more; like an idiot. Possibly I am dealing with some kind of Stockholm Syndrome or PTSD that contributed to it. One thing I know is that they absolutely fucking revel in your hurt and your suffering. There really is nothing worse than the kind of abuse that is totally unseen by surrounding eyes. I often joked about how I’d rather someone just beat me up or punch me, because somehow the scars inside, and a heart that feels like it was smashed to pieces, are what are far harder to heal. I know that I’m an adult and I would act careless and make dumb and dangerous decisions, but I will say that before this particular guy came along, I was not relying on drugs and self injuring. But I can see how I was so damn open and vulnerable to it because I have had 23 years of self destructive and abusive tendencies, and low self esteem. I was the perfect target.
These people totally fuck you over, without even laying a single finger on you. Imagine what an ego boost and source of power ‘supply’ that must be to these individuals. All the while you will look like some crazy and over-sensitive person to other people who don’t understand. And these narcs will, like a chameleon, act like everything is totally kosher with others, swaying through, as if they got the respect and morals of the minister of the community, so it’s even more isolating for you.
The only way I feel is the solution, is to totally cut them dead, however fucking hard that will be because of the energy and dynamics of this hell; to completely cut off any kind of interaction. What makes this so hard is how much with them was totally passive aggressive (typical for coverts), and using many fake accounts etc..nothing truly direct; everything could be denied, and I’m feeling like a complete fool. It’s not like I’m totally unaware, because the abuse I dealt with as a child included passive aggressive means, it’s just when it concerns a romantic interest instead of family, it’s different... and ohhhh, the things you tell yourself because you want to believe the best, as an empath, that that they have good in them and that you are just being too sensitive or paranoid etc.. Hardly surprising, as this was how I was conditioned as a kid - to always doubt myself and my intuition. I always knew something about this person was not right, but I ignored it and went back for more, while they just played me for a fool. I look at what they have been doing and I just feel sick to my stomach. I gotta face the fact that they truly don’t care, and they will never change, so I have to - change my tendency to take crap and abuse. I have to accept that they aren’t capable of having empathy and understanding of the consequences of their actions and how the things they do hurt - I guess it thrills them much more.
What I need to do is no longer follow or pay any attention to ANYTHING they do, get out of the habit, because that is exactly how they feed themselves and bleed you, then try to ‘hoover’ with fake love and compliments to suck you back in. One of my aims is to try and keep my online engagement on here, because the one thing these people do is isolate you, and in this last 7 months that’s what happened to me. What is so tragic, is how it all happens so gradually, in how subtle they are, yet very sharp and vigilant, and how they will cunningly chip away at any self esteem or energy in you, while secretly loathing and envying anything you achieve e that they didn’t; they love absolutely feeding on your insecurities and vulnerabilities - if you are fragile inside, they will sniff that out and rip you open. I reckon that knowing my vulnerabilities must be such a source of power and control, that it truly drives their sick minds. Knowing exactly how to hurt you. I ask everyday, how the hell do I ever trust anyone anymore...
I need to take back my own power, and even when I feel like crap, know that no one deserves to go through something like this. I know I have my passions, and need to feel and know I can still come on here, engage in what was always my love - do my music and writing - and be totally free of the negative energy of them. (Not pay attention anymore, but do my own damn thing). I feel the negative energy and anger, and I feel almost like somehow they have a sense of entitlement - like they own me and I must must somehow owe them... all because they have a real inferiority complex which they hide with ego and arrogant pride. Then they make out like it’s all a joke... Well I know a lot of humour, and I can take humour, but these people will gaslight you into craziness - blurred lines and questioning the difference between humour and whether it’s abuse. It’s sad.
Lately I feel like I do not want to do anything, and I’m pretty sure I’m dealing with PTSD, which ties in with unhealed wounds from my childhood; but just sitting there and playing the idiot for them would be letting them win. It’s stupid that I even feel like it’s some kind of war, and I know I got my own ego to overcome. I just know that the way things are and how I feel by what they do, I gotta break away because what I always say; “No man who makes you cry is worth your tears, and the one who is, would never make you cry. In his kiss, only tears of bliss...
Being a dreamer in a harsh world, as I’ve always been; it’s like sitting with your kid’s colouring paints, and big and ambitious paintbrush, in a cold, grey, dead jail cell. You wanna make it perfect, you never felt good enough; so you always painted over the rough.
Sometimes you imagine a wishing well,
Where all your dreams you fearlessly tell.
You know there ain’t no magic spell,
In this grown-ass world, you somehow fell,
Longing for the inspiring, baked cookies you smell,
Where aspiring, yet lost children dwell...
I’m feeling so damn worn,
I know so well they had me torn.
It’s mental hell, feeling forlorn.
The constant lose-lose, and suicidal thinking.
I don’t even need the booze, to feel like I been drinking.
It’s a depression that’s nothing like I’ve ever known. Maybe that’s why I feel no pain in broken bones...
I sometimes wonder whether it is true, that when you have known a certain amount of deep and twisted mental pain over many years, that the physical seems like almost nothing. Maybe it might explain, why with three broken bones in seven months, I didn’t feel that much pain.
Nothing compares to mental pain, and the fact that this is a controlled situation, of bringing you down slowly but surely. It is where a person is totally cunning, not like someone who just lashes out after a few beers. It’s the cold and calculated mentality I can’t get my head around, even after many years of knowing that it exists, and having dealt with parasites of a narcissistic nature through my life.
Right now, the only way I cope with all my emotions and frustrations, aside from unhealthy ways, is my poetry/writing. I blame myself for knowing I ain’t stupid, and that I’m responsible for the decisions I made; but when your head is being totally fucked, and every single vulnerability in you is triggered, you feel powerless and sometimes like you are going to die. To many I probably sound like I’m exaggerating, but this is how it damn well feels.
I know I need to try and let go of the victim mentality, and know that I do have control of my own self, and how I react. I can’t change them, but I can control how I react. I guess I just need to love me... I can say that that’s so much harder to do than to say; that’s been the issue all along the way.
If I’d truly loved myself, these kinds of predators wouldn’t wouldn’t even be on the radar.
In a world of violence, we forget the danger of those who play by silence.
The tragedy in much abuse, is not the violence of the guns and beatings, but the ‘silence’ of the ones, loathing and conceiting.
Loads of good thoughts here. Thanks so much for sharing. Dr. C
Joanne Campbell No offense, but good thoughts aren’t what you need. You need to turn to Jesus Christ for sustenance. He said He would be a Father to the fatherless, and a husband/wife to the widow/widower/neglected.
I feel your pain i can relate to everything you r saying! i will be praying for you and you will be healed for sure i have no doubt!
I appreciate your videos. I am dealing with a Narc and you have given me some usable tools to work with.
CaboWabo70517 they never change for the better. In fact they get worse as they get older.
The only tools you need are your running shoes...seriously just run.
Thanks for being a P.h.D and understanding this. I am sick of "mental health professionals" not recognizing 1) we were narcissistically abused and 2) that we are only part of the problem, and until someone else helos us show up for ourselves and validates our experience as something other than crazy we can't even begin to heal. Until I healed myself of my codependency I was really unable to shield myself from these cluster B's, too. It eas like a moth to a flame. Also, I am a bit over this whole new trend to label BPD as Bi Polar or Aspberger's. It lets them off the hook for being totally destructive assholes. It's like a new license for them to be an extra level of evil. I have compassion or them. I do; It's because they can't or won't get the insight to change, but I do so from a VERY SAFE distance. I win by not playing. Period. I won't be hoovered back in. Thanks for not being just another flying monkey mental health professional.
You're welcome. Dr. C
Rainbo Good words!
Me too. I'm fucking angry that I had my mind stolen and nobody believes me.
@@funsizeboyce9196 The anger subsides as we heal, but I support you in allowing your anger to be acknowledged. For a long time. I thought the anger was protecting me from them, because I always felt so powerless. As soon as I realized I am the full one and they are sad emptiness, I could tap into my already available "super power," called forgiveness. I applied it to the situation and the narcissist (because they are pathetic and not worth any more energy) and it healed me. I am not like them...thank GOD. I was so grateful that they clearly saw a difference between me and them. Extreme self care became my focus, along with talking to someone who understands and watching videos from this community really helped. Anger is completely understandable and necessary to walk in our own power and dignity after encountering these beings.
Preach!
I think a lot of these types are diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I see a lot of recovering addicts play the same type of games too. And the "professional martyrs" too. They look slightly different than this specific type of person but they are in the same club.
thanks for this video. they are exactly like that. insincere, fake, and heartless people. stay away from them as soon as possible!
Thanks, you always seem to explain narcissism in way which minimizes the projected feelings that sometimes plague me from Narcissist's I know well. I've for too long felt I'm to blame, which has become an inner pattern and resulted in significant somatic issues... and poor behavior on my part as a result. Understanding this is one thing, but understanding the motivation, and indicators, behind the Narcissists approach helps me be aware and extinguish this pattern of projection, denial and blame. The unconscious may be truly unconscious, but at least I can see now.
Hi James,
Excellent commentary!!!
Being aware of patterns, either from the conscious, subconscious and unconsciously with understanding of one self it actually shows empathy and compassionate.
Please do your best not to lay any blame, as it appears from my perspective that you've learned and will continue learning lessons.
Now go give yourself a pat on the back.
Better yet place your right hand on your left waist or shoulder, your left hand on your right waist or shoulder then gently squeeze. That's equivalent with a Real Hug c/o mwAH~
James sal
L
Dai
"Let them think that way." That's how I get trapped. It's really hard for me to not think I'm responsible for how someone else thinks about me.
Have you ever tried to coach a narcissist on how to think, then the N replied, "hey, thanks for the good input"? Dr. C
@@SurvivingNarcissism Lol, no, can't say I have.
But I guess that's one way to learn how to get used to letting them think how they are going to think.
Me to narc mom after her umpteenth attempt to manipulate/guilt me into engaging in a family situation i wasnt comfortable with: " I dont care what you think. [Husband] and i are doing what works fir *our* family." The end
@@SurvivingNarcissism the narc is 100% unteachable. w not receive ANY INPUT whatsoever. that point alone saves countless wasted hours of thinking and trying.
Finally, someone is really describing the narcissist I live with. The absolute stonewall against any kind of vulnerability, the passive-aggressive withdrawal, silence, judgement. The “I don’t want anyone to know who I am” (actually spoken aloud in tones of extreme alarm and anger). The “othering” of most of the rest of humanity. The belief that all forms of relational dialoguing are personal threats and attacks, no matter how kindly, tactfully, openly, and vulnerably I attempt to approach them. All the good guy stuff he does, is done not from a place of real empathy, but from a need to prove he is a “good” guy to himself and others, because that’s the source of the superiority. The statements about the covert narcissist being someone you cannot be “tight” with, or intimate with, hits hard. This is the conclusion I’ve painfully come to over the last couple decades with my narcissist.
Based on experience, I’m going to toss a guess out there that this type of narcissist is the type that shows up most often in religious communities? Religion has certainly played a huge role in my narcissist’s personality formation, through it’s heavy influence on his parents, grandparents, great-grandparents, and so on back to the early 19th century. The shaming and black and white thinking are basic factors.
It’s you who decides who you are , not the narcissist deciding on your behalf. Thanks a bunch! Means a lot,this is so helpful.
I enjoy your videos. The manner of speaking that both you and Laura utilize is easy to listen to, and to the point. Thank you for your contribution to this complex and all-too-prevalent personality disorder.
There are many layers to narcissism, which is why we're able to fill an entire channel discussing it. Thanks for the good comments. Dr. C
Cold, aloof, smug. That pretty much sums it.
One of my ex’s favorite tactics was to start talking to me as though he was speaking to a customer service rep, as though we didn’t know each other at all and were simply conducting business. And if he didn’t like my policies he’d take his business elsewhere.
It's like you're just a number to him. Dr. C
The number of years we put up with this is not a badge of honor. A badge of honor is breaking away from this highly dysfunctional person. It will hurt, you will grieve and you will need to protect yourself. The real badge is finally thinking you do not deserve this and you develop secure boundaries, refuse to be treated like this anymore from anyone. We are all here to offer support, suggest resources and a collective shoulder to lean on. You can do it. You’d be surprised how strong and resourceful you will be. 🥰
I find myself thinking “maybe it’s me”... “maybe I am too sensitive” But now : I am “other” now means: I am running in the other direction. Thanks
My husband of over 30 years fits this description. I’ve been practicing the advice at the end of the video for several weeks and not being his narcissistic supply. He’s bewildered but it’s so much more peaceful for me.
Covert narcissists seem to hook up together more than all out narcissists. They love to have complaint sessions with each other. I try to pick them out in film noir movies where their traits are extremely obvious.
I obtained two degrees in psychology. I understood the disorders of personality very well. There was no mention of NPD. There was psychopath or sociopath in relation to lack of empathy.
Now the name is narcissistic. You can change the name but it is the same. The same disorder that killers and criminals have is this disorder. Be warned. If he sees you suffering or struggling and doesn't care get away while you can!!!
I went and hugged my stepmother who's been so jealous and talked about me really bad and stuff, anyways I hugged her tonight and was able to show her grace. I know that grace came straight from God. I've been praying about this.