Introduction to 1 and 2 Clement
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- 1 and 2 Clement are literary works written by the first century bishop of the city of Rome who held a Modalistic Monarchian view of God rather than a Trinitarian view. For More info see our other video entitled, “The Theology of Clement of Rome”, Subscribe to this CZcams Channel, or visit us on the web at www.apostolicchristianfaith.com
I just came across this information after I finished producing this video which further establishes the Clementine authorship of 2 Clement and that Clement of Rome was a Modalist: A particular unknown passage of scripture appears from a lost book of the Bible, once in 1 Clement, and again in 2 Clement. This same passage appears to be from the lost Gospel to the Egyptians. Hence, the Clementine authorship of both 1 and 2 Clement is probable. For it is highly unlikely that an unknown passage would appear in both literary works without being written by the same author. Both 1 Clement 23 and 2 Clement 11 cite the same passage with some slight differences. "Far be from you that scripture where it says (2 Clement says, “for the prophetic word also says”), ‘Miserable are the double-minded which doubt in their soul (2 Clement says “heart”), which say: these things we heard in our fathers' days also, and lo! We have grown old and nothing of these things has befallen us (2 Clement says, “but we expecting from day to day have seen none of these things”). O foolish ones, compare yourselves to a tree; take the vine; first it sheds the leaf, then a shoot comes (2 Clement says “then a leaf, then a flower”), and after that a sour berry, then a cluster fully ripe. (Here 1 Clement ends and 2 Clement continues): So also my people has had unquietness and afflictions: afterward it shall receive good things." 1 Clement 23 says that the quote is from “that scripture” while 2 Clement 11 says “the prophetic word.”Since Clement of Rome cited the same unknown scripture in both 1 and 2 Clement, it becomes even more evident that Clement of Rome was the author of both 1 and 2 Clement. Since the Gospel to the Egyptians is the only lost book of the Bible known to have been cited in 2 Clement, the mysterious scriptural quote that appears in both 1 and 2 Clement most likely came from the lost Gospel to the Egyptians. This would mean that the Gospel to the Egyptians was written before 70 A.D. (while the original apostles were still alive). The Gospel to the Egyptians plainly stated that Jesus is the same Divine Individual as the Holy Spirit of the Father. At around 200 A.D., Clement of Alexandria proved that Clement of Rome cited the Gospel to the Egyptians in 2 Clement. Therefore the most likely source of this unknown scripture cited in both 1 and 2 Clement is from the words of Jesus out of the lost Gospel to the Egyptians. For Jesus often used the analogy of agricultural plants in his style of teaching.May the Lord keep opening the real facts of early Christian history to expose the later false doctrines and to prove that the earliest Christians were Oneness Modalists long before the Trinitarian doctrine developed.
1 and 2 Clement are both forgeries made up by the Heretic hunter Ireneus. Histories largest criminal organization is no source for truth.
I believe that Clement is actually the writer of Hebrews. I would like to know your thoughts on this. You sound like the one to talk to about this.
@@Itsatz0Forged to what end? I don't see a deviation from being in line with the rest of scripture in 1 Clement . Discernment is key.
@@bible1st I was wrong about Clement 1. Clement 2 is a forgery, written in the late 2nd cent. I don't know how Clement 1 is in line with scripture. The early Christians had no consistent scripture. It doesn't reference the gospels
@@bible1st I was wrong about Clement 1. Clement 2 is a forgery, like so many other "Christian" attestations. I don't see how Clement 1 verifies scripture, when there was no set canon in the first cent. It never references the gospels or Acts.
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Wow! This is amazing! Even with the false church's tampering with Scripture, it is still clear to those who love the truth, that God, who is Spirit, and Holy, became a man. It's harder, sure, but not impossible. I will venture into reading 1&2 Clament now. Thank you Pastor Ritchie.
A Oneness historian, possibly David Bernard, said Clement was one of the last non- trinity bishops of Rome. I suppose this was due to the falling away from the first century faith predicted by Paul in Acts 20:29.
A confirmed writing of Clement of Rome (Stromata 3, 9:63 and 13:93, which is conveniently not mentioned in this video) cites the Gospel According To The Egyptians as incorrect and not in accordance with the four received Gospels.
To say Clement was a modalist based on a single quote fragment from a document of uncertain provenance, when we have confirmed writings from that same person rejecting modalist documents, is shoddy scholarship at best, and deliberately misleading at worst.
Interesting.
The Bible is Gods Word
Apostolic Oneness people are good on the Godhead, but miss it on eternal security.
Interestingly 2nd Clement also has quotes that can be traced back to two other Lost or Rejected Gospels.
His expanded saying on Jesus talking about the Wolves pretending to sheep can be found in the fragments of the Gospel of Peter. And calls regfrence to the 114th Saying of the Gospel of Thomas when he talks of men and women inheriting the spirit.
Though as you have pointed out in the video because 2 Clement was written in the late 90s AD it would assert all these so called "2nd Century Apochpahl works" having a much earlier date of composition... I think for most biblical scholars this is opening up Pandora's Box cause it shatters their fragile view of a canon.
Thanks for commenting with information I'm interested in investigating. Do you have the exact locations in 2 Clement with the sources showing similarities to the fragments of the Gospel of Peter and the Gospel of Thomas?
The Gospel of Peter is refrenced in the episle 2nd Clement 5:2-4.. This is an expanded saying of Jesus to Peter about the wolves pretending to be sheep.. Found also in the Gospel of Peter..
The Gospel of Thomas is quoted in the 12th Chapter when Jesus says there shall be nor man nor female into the kingdom of heaven.. This is calling back to Saying 114 of The Gospel of Thomas.. One could say this is a refrence to one of Pauls letters "nether man nor woman nor jew nor gentiie" but the problem with this theory is that Clement quotes this as a saying of Jesus not Paul.
Now what do all three of these works have in common both the Gospels of Peter, Paul, as well as the 2nd Letter of Clement are thought to be from the mid 2nd century.. If you are right on this and 2 Clement is from the late 1st century it means that The Eygptian, Peter, and Thomas Gospels are from the 1st century as well.
Unbound Knowledge Thanks for the info. I copied and pasted what you wrote for further research. I'm convinced that there are many things waiting to be uncovered in church history that are of great value.
Unbound Knowledge I read through the fragments of the Gospel of Peter and did not find anything like the words of 2nd Clement 5:2-4 which leads me to believe that this is another quote from the lost Gospel to the Egyptians.
Gospel of Thomas, saying 114 “[Saying added to the original collection at a later date:] 114 Simon Peter said to them, "Make Mary leave us, for females don't deserve life." Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."
This sounds nothing like 2 Clement chapter 12
2Clem 12:2
For the Lord Himself, being asked by a certain person when his
kingdom would come, said, When the two shall be one, and the
outside as the inside, and the male with the female, neither male
or female.
2Clem 12:3
Now the two are one, when we speak truth among ourselves, and
in two bodies there shall be one soul without dissimulation.
2Clem 12:4
And by the outside as the inside He meaneth this: by the inside he
meaneth the soul and by the outside the body. Therefore in like
manner as thy body appeareth, so also let thy soul be manifest by
its good works.
2Clem 12:5
And by the male with the female, neither male nor female, he
meaneth this; that a brother seeing a sister should have no thought
of her as a female, and that a sister seeing a brother should not
have any thought of him as a male.
Paul also says Christ is the spirit.
He is.
The spirit of Christ.
I've taken critisim all my chritian life for the same thoughts never knowing this.
I can count how often I was lashed out lol
Trinity existed on Torah
Only beggoten God
Spirit of God= spoke threw burning bush to moses
Angel of God =stopped Abraham from sacrificing Issac.
Father son holy spirit =Jesus God
LOL the forms God chose to interact abd communicate to with man
Past present future =time
Trinity solved lol
Jamie Holladay, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the prophets never new a Trinity of 3 alleged God Persons with 3 alleged God Minds, God Wills, and God Consciousnesses. "Only begotten God" was not found in any early Christian writing until the Alexandria manuscripts developed in the mid to late third century. Irenaeus, Clement, and Tertullian had cited John 1:18 as "only begotten Son" long before "only begotten God" appeared in the Alexandrian manuscripts.
Of course, our only true God is our Heavenly Father who manifested Himself through angelic agency in the burning bush, on Mount Sinai (Acts 7) and when God intervened with the Isaac on Mount Moriah.
Since salvation is if of the Jews, we should search the scriptures to find out what the early Jews taught about God's manifestations of Himself through angelic agency rather than through two alleged true God Persons. I have documented the historical evidence proving that there were no true Trinitarians within the first three hundred years of Christian history in my new book entitled, "The Case For Oneness Theology" at ApostolicChristianFaith.com.
@@globalimpactministries766Job, in speaking of God says: "But he is of one mind, and who can turn him? And what his soul desireth, even that he doeth". This verse refutes 3 sets of consciousness in God. It also teaches that God has a soul, which thing many deny. As well, it shows that God has no shadow of turning, and therefore no sides to Him. Thus there can be no other beside Him. Thus what "...at the right hand of God really means that Jesus is the O.T. arm of God.