Which Type of RV Water Heater is Best for YOU? (RV Water Heater Showdown: Tank vs. Tankless) RV Life
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- čas přidán 15. 06. 2024
- Deciding between a TANKLESS RV Water Heater and a standard TANK water heater? We did some testing, and (to us) the winner is clear!
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00:00 Intro
01:38 Basic RV Water Heater Concepts
03:21 Water Heater Specifications and Differences
06:11 Assumptions
06:39 What we will test
07:33 TANK Water Heater Testing
10:03 TANK Water Heater Recovery Test
10:59 TANK Shower Duration Test
11:43 TANKLESS Water Heater Testing
16:42 TANKLESS Propane Use Testing
18:02 Summary and Tips
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We have 2023 Grand Design 297RSTS with a Furion On Demand water heater. I added recirculation valves to the shower and kitchen sink. Zero wasted water while on tanks.
THAT is freakin GENIUS! Bravo! 👍🏼
Do those magnetic spice racks on your Rv fridge stay there during travel and if so where did you get them from?
I was just about to let Chad know about them...shocked that manufacturers don't have them as options still, as they have been out for years now?
The re-flow system was going to be my comment as well. It’s a shame that they are not standard on ALL RV’s. That way NO water is wasted. you just turn a valve on the faucet or shower and wait until a temp indicator turns red, then you turn the valve back so the water flows out the shower or faucet and viola, bob’s your uncle.
A great idea! I've heard of it before, can you give details how to set up/install?
My absolute favorite water heater was my Girard tankless heater. I loved using the digital display to pick the temperature we wanted and then turning on only the hot faucet. Wife liked 102F showers, but I liked 105F. Dishes we used 124F. I think the mistake many Rvers make when it comes to tankless is they try to mix in cold water. Don't!!! Simply pick your desired temp and ignore the cold for the win! There are other brands, but the Girard's digital display vs a knob to set your desired temp is the way to go!
Perfectly said Mark! We do exactly the same with our Furrion WH. Use straight hot water and whatever temp you want. It's more precise and saves water vs. trying to find the right temp by mixing.
Just discovered my home tankless Navien has a remote add-on. Seriously considering getting it to do just this!
Another thing to consider with tankless is that they have a minimum flow requirement before firing the burner. In my last house, the low flow shower head was just above what the heater needed to start. So don't turn the shower flow down while soaping up. When you go to rinse off you get a cold reprise.
im active duty Navy and my wife and i are homeport shifting and are new RV'ers and i really appreciate your videos of tips and tricks. Thank you Sir for your help!
I have that exact model Tankless heater in my Winnebago. I set the temp to 104 deg and use only the hot tap when taking a shower to minimize the heating and maximize the water flow through the tankless. The kitchen sink is only 18 inches from the heater, so the wait is short there. We love it. The plumbing lines in my RV are short, and the low temp helps shorten the amount of cold wasted. If boon docking, just capture the cold shower and sink water in a bucket. So easy. With four people in our RV we would always be waiting for that tank to heat. It would be great if you could fire the burner before the water was flowing. There is a 35 deg thermal switch that runs the burner briefly to prevent freezing that could be jumped with a push button to accomplish that. The tech support for that tankless company is amazing. A knowledgeable person actually talks to you on the phone. I almost fell over. It's like 1970.
How do you adjust the temp on the winnebago? I have the Forza and the kitchen sink is never more than warm. The shower is pretty hot, but it could be hotter.
With the tank less, I find that if you turn the hot on for a second or two and then off and wait a couple of minutes you don't use as much water waiting for it to get hot.
I think the tank less thought is only based on that model. I have the Therma thru and do sea showers (was in the Coast Gaurd so know sea showers well) with no issues. Maybe it is because the one I have has a small (mark 1 eyeball) 1 liter tank that when it calls for hot water that tank fills in to buffer that cycling you see. My only complaint is while I have hot water in the bathrooms, the kitchen sink seems like there is a mixing value (don't see one though) as that temp is always lower. Also there are two position with one that keeps that tank hot and then eco with keeps it warm. My practice it to turn the heater off until we need hot water and overall no complaints especially if when I first turn it on, I run the hot for a few seconds and then shut the water off for a minute or two. I will have to test how much water is wasted, but guess is less than three cups (.7 liter).
Its likely better control of the water temp however, you are using 100% of the "hot water" source and not mixing it with cold ie: limiting hot water temp.
Just watched this and sooo glad we did! We were considering changing to a tankless as well, but after watching your tests, we’ll stick with a regular tank. Thanks Chad for saving our bacon by doing a great job of investigating! Keep up the great videos! Safe travels!~Wendy
This is exactly the info I have been looking for. Solid tests 🤘
Your experimentation and data accuracy saves us all a lot of money, time, and frustration. Thanks for helping us all make more informed decisions. Go Navy!
Wow! You've done it again! I needed this info! You have been, for years, my top dog source for everything camping. I started 5th wheel camping in 2021 and I honestly feel like I have graduated past amateur to somewhere maybe just below expert and I owe so much of that to you guys. Crazy thing is that I don't follow a lot of people and I don't really like watching other peoples videos, but I will sometimes to do my research. I always come back to you as my top dog source. I don't even comment on any youtube videos, but I have felt compelled to comment on your videos maybe 5 or 6 times just cause I'm so proud of you guys the way you have handled your channel. So yeah, I hope to see you on the road one of these days so I can say thanks in person. David
Thank you Chad for confirming everything I thought I knew! 😂 I’ve never had a tankless in my RV, but did have 1 in a house I owned. I agree with you that I will keep my 12 gallon tank. Just not practical with how we live in our RV. Appreciate your scientific approach. 👏
Great info. Water usage is so important, especially boom docking
I have installed 110volt 30 gal from Lowes in my Motorhome a few years back and it works perfect! Had to give up a 2ft square by 3 ft tall space in a closet but it was totally worth it!
Suspicions confirmed on the tankless for RV use. I have been tying to talk a family member out of going this route, he is about a week away from ordering a new Toyhauler. This video convinced him. Thank you.
Good job Chad you saved me a lot of headaches and money. I really love watching you guys. keep up the great videos.
We have the Girard tankless and installed the Shower Mizer to minimize the "wasted water" sending it back to the fresh water tank instead of down the drain. Was a game changer for us. Also fixing the outlet temp instead of trying to mix the cold in is how we do it and works fornus well. Great comparison video! Happy New Year.
Thank you for doing this video. We were also considering switching to tankless but now we know it is best for us to stay with the hot water tank.
I have a GD 2930RL. One of my first upgrades was to replace the Suburban 12Gal with a Truma Aqua-go Comfort. We have never regretted the cost and love it.
Thanks for sharing! There are a lot of comments on here praising the Truma. We might need to check them out! 👍🏼
But doesn't the Truma have a small tank?
@@ChangingLanesBest to wait until the Suburban tank quits vs. replace one that is working fine.
The Truma has a small 10L (2.64G) tank that is kept hot all the time. The water heater generates between 20,0000 and 60,000 BTU based on needs
As always, I love your videos. I learn something new every time. Great job😃
This left me saying WOW!! Thank you for comparing, as I always wondered about tankless heaters, not any more! 👍🏻🍻
Thank you for the hint of reducing the temperature of the water at the main control for the tankless water heater. I set it 109 and did not have to adjust the mix while I was in the shower. So much easier! Thank you!!!
We just bought a brand new camper with tankless and used it 4x… decided that tank was better for us. I took the tankless out and installed conventional tank heater. I had to go to 6 gallon due to space, but it is just my wife and I, so that works for us. I can give someone a great deal on a 42k BTU Furion….
We've discussed this also. How difficult or what issues did you have?
@@robertbailey7125 the 6 gallon suburban fit into the same opening (approx 12x12). The outer cover is a separate purchase. We did have to add a 20 amp circuit on the AC system to power the unit on AC. The gas line fit right in. You will need a bypass arrangement on your inlet and outlet for water winterization. You will need a control switch for the dc side as well. All in took me about 8 hrs to install. I dint find it that difficult, but I’m accustomed to doing that type of work. I ordered mine from United RV parts. Their website makes it clear that you need the matching cover and dc control switch for the unit.
This is great info. I'm going to make notes of it. Thank you.@@randypetty3066
I hate the on demands
Was one of the first upgrades we made when we went full time (for 4 years). Worked fantastic for a family of 4 (mom, dad, and 2 girls). Had to replace the mother board at about three years (after a heavy rain that I think got it wet) haven’t had any other issues. We have the girard tankless. Have used it with/without hookups. There are some tricks to learn but has always worked great for us (except the one issue mentioned).
Thanks for doing the scientific tests!
I just ordered a pinnacle yesterday. So happy I kept the 16 gallon tank.
Thanks for confirming what I thought about tankless.
The biggest issue we have had with our tankless water heater in our 2022 28BH was when we were in Florida at the end of June 2023. The supply water was warm enough, and maybe pressure not quite high enough, that it really threw off the tankless water heater. No matter what temperature we set the WH to, it would end up getting too hot and made taking showers difficult. If we would try adding cold water to compensate, it would get even hotter. I had even tried adjusting the flow on the WH, but no luck. It was frustrating. As soon as we got back north, it worked great. Thanks for the comparison. I like the idea of the tankless, but there sure are good arguments for a regular tank heater.
Excellent presentation! You answered the questions I've had about a switch to a tankless system. I'll be keeping my conventional water heater! Safe travels....
I've got the 6 gal so I take the navy showers. I have an electric suburban tank and I feel like I get the hot water pretty quick. And I'm still using the Mopeka sensors on my propane and I love those things. Thank you for the testing videos. I wouldn't have known about that sensor if not for you
Great comparison!!
Thankyou for answering my questions on the "New" water heaters that these new campers are coming with.
Great video. We are full time with a truma on demand since 2016. One thing we’ve noticed is when the outdoor temps fall we have to reduce the water volume to keep hot water. Also inlet water temp from our rv land well pump in wisc seems to affect it greatly. When temps drop to zero we have to greatly reduce volume to get hot water. That means it’s time to migrate.
Something sounds wrong with your setup. We were camping this past week in ~20 degree temps and the water coming out of the tankless seemed normal temp. Water can only get so cold, I understand they are engineered to take water at ~33 degrees up to the set temp. Now, if you're using a ton of hot water at once, running the shower, sink, dishwasher, etc; I could see you getting ahead of it, but we never have that problem with ours and we often camp when you need a heated hose to keep the water from freezing.
@@michaelfink2070 maybe. This is our 2nd truma on demand water heater and both performed the same way. Yes this result is when showering. It doesn’t seem to be as much of an issue just running a sink faucet.
@@michaelfink2070 every tankless heater has a maximum temperature rise that is tied to a given flow rate. From the Girard user guide, "The Girard Tankless Water Heater will heat incoming water approximately 40 to 60 degrees depending on the water flow rate." Going back to Chad's example of the 86 degree water out from 39 degree water in. If you're running the maximum flow rate and only getting 40 degree rise, that's 39+40=79. Slow the flow rate down to achieve the 60 degree rise and now you're looking at 39+60=99.
Thank you for taking the time and effort to compare systems! Hoping for an amazing 2024 for you and yours! 🖖🏻😘👍🏻🙏🏻
We’ve only had our tankless heater for a short while, and my tankless tip is to switch it out for an old school water heater.
We never camp with full hookup, and I just don’t see this thing working out for us.
Also, if you read the tankless manual, you don’t have “unlimited” hot water. The heater will shut off after 20 minutes of use as a safety feature and will need resetting. So you get 20minutes max shower length.
You’re spot on with your test. We have a tankless which is great for showers, but all else takes time and water to heat up. Washing dishes we fill up the sink… wash dishes… empty sink… rinse dishes with heated water. It would be nice to have a hybrid system that had a 3 gallon tank for quick uses and the on demand for showers
I’m always learning something new. I never knew you could turn on the electric and gas water heater for faster recovery. Good stuff
Our Holiday Rambler came with an Atwood Tankless Water Heater that never did work correctly. After numerous trips for service; we installed a Truma Aqua Go and it was great. It used very little propane and never ran out of hot water. It was installed by a Truma Factory Facility in Lakeland, FL in less than 2 hours. Highly recommend Truma!
Thank you for a very educational video. I have not toyed with the idea of getting a tankless because I hear of so many people have trouble with them. Mostly pressure problems I believe. Thanks again!
Thanks Chad. I've wondered the same thing about the tankless heaters. They sound good, residential heaters work good, but you would have unlimited water.
I've also wondered about the water circulators for instant hot water at faucets. I didn't think they would work to well for an rv due to needing a loop water system.
Your test was good, didn't turn out quite how I figured. I'll just keep my old tank heater.
God bless ya'll and stay safe on your travels.
You always do a great job in testing thing Keep it up help me make good decision's . I installed a 12 volt recirculation valve in my 1921 Grand Design with a Fusion On Demand and never wast any water and love how you can adjust to any temp for showering 106 degrees works for me, shower as long as you want. Except when boon-docking.
Hi Chad
Thank you for this video. I agree with you about "on demand" system. I have one in my RV. So far I found 2 advantages over the tank heater.
1) I have always the same temperature , once it is hot.
2) I a an 80 year old friend who doesn't understand the winterison and dewinte... process. This would skip a step that he always forgets.
Thank you again for you details technicals videos.
Allen
Great video thx . Would be cool to see a test with the truma . You guys are awesome thx again for all the great content . Happy new year & safe travels.
Thanks for sharing! There are a lot of comments on here praising the Truma. We might need to check them out! 👍🏼
Great tests! Thanks!!
We have the tankless hot water, the same one you tested and we dislike it. We saw lots of youtubers changing to the on demand and couldn't figure out why, so we definitely appreciated your comparison video. Other issues are if you don't have enough water pressure the heater won't turn on so at some parks we have to use the campground and our water tank to get enough pressure for the heater to come on. The other issue is if you don't want a super hot shower, you can't really adjust the temperature. Your choices are very hot or very cold. You can change the temperature on the wall thermostat, but that's not necessary what you get. Thanks again for your great, honest video.
I mostly agree with Chad. IMHO the tankless in our 2023 GD Reflection 311 BHS is good ONLY for showers. Yes, we set a lower temp and run only hot. But for everything else, the tank system is the winner. The tankless issues with low or intermittent flow are insurmountable, in my view. I have always liked that I can use electricity to heat water in the tank systems we've had in prior RVs. LP is not super expensive but free is certainly better!
I was wondering how feasible it might be to have both - tankless for the shower and tank for everything else. Probably not very practical ...but i may look into that
Super helpful my 2007 toy hauler has the 12 gal as well it just started to leak so this video is very informative thank you.
TONS of comments on how good the Truma on-demand is... If you want to try a tankless, that's the way to go it seems.
Yep, have a 12 Gallon in the back yard that is new and not used, as it was replaced with a Furrion Instant on. We set out temp and only turn on the hot water and love it. Yes a little delay about 1/2 gallon but to us well worth it.
Hi Chad great topic with on-demand water heater. We had a motor home with on-demand and was great. We are weekenders so water use was not an issue for us, boon-docking would be different so not the best option. Love our on-demand heater in our house, still need to avoid the cold water sandwich.
The trick I applied was set the temp controller to 115 and use very little cold water, then just turn down the flow but not off. This eliminates the cold water sandwich effect.
Keep making great videos!
I love my Aqua hot water heater & furnace system that runs on diesel and electricity.
We just paid $1600 for repairs & upgrades (switching vs digital).
We love our system.
We only use propane for our 2 burner stove and our Dometic fridge.
Our fridge is old but she still works.
The furnace puts out nice heat and water on the hot side is unlimited.
My bill was high, but I but about 20 gallons a year of propane and my tank holds 25 gallons.
I’ll say it again, I love my aqua-hot!
We had the Truma Aqua Go for 4 years. Loved it and had substantially better performance to the gerrard unit you tested.
Thanks for sharing! There are a lot of comments on here praising the Truma AquaGo. We might need to check them out! 👍🏼
I agree with you Chad. We do not camp with full hookups very often. I want the option to go to my tank type. Same should be true of all AC or DC refrigerators. Camping 5 days on forest land makes propane appliances a must have. Thanks for the video.
Hey Chad.
We have a Furrion 60,000 in our Super C.
It takes about 50 seconds to get from the heater to the shower way after in the rig. When we boondock, we put a 5 gallon bucket in the shower to catch the otherwise wasted water and save grey tank space.
We use that water to flush toilets.
All in all we like the endless supply and propane seems to hold up well.
Thanks for the vid neighbor.
We had a Girard in our fifth wheel. Got rid of it and had a Truma Aqua Go. We love it. Research it. You can boondock with it.
I read up on that a bit after some comments.. Truma's tank thing is the difference I think.
Great video Chad. Thank you
Thanks for confirming what I noticed already between our 2021 Imagine and 2022 Reflection systems. I prefer the tank system in our Imagine. On top of what you pointed out, if the rv park water pressure too low you will get an error on the tankless. There has been times that I had to switch the pump on and use water from our fresh water tank in the Reflection. Being ex military my wife and I could take back to back showers with our 12 gal tank in our 2018 Jayco Toyhauler before we switch to the two Grand Designs.
always fantastic easy to understand and unbiased informative guides here - love the channel - would love to hear yer thoughts on best Bike trailers fer Super C's
My coach has an Oasis hydronic system that runs on diesel and / or electric. This provides furnace and domestic hot water. I like it, benifits of both tank and tankless. My shower also has a water miser system that will cycle warm up water back to the fresh tank to not waste it ... even an indicator blue button to let you know the water is hot.
Best system of them all...
Thanks for doing the comparison and proving what I've been saying. In my search for a new 5th wheel, the only manufacturers I found still offering tank heaters is Keystone in the Montana and Jayco on the North Pointe and Pennicle. Our current 5th wheel has a 12 gal heater. We've never run out of hot water and in almost 3 years haven't gone through 2 30 lb tanks of propane, never do that with a tankless heater. The industry is shoving the tankless down our throats with no options. While I can understand something better is needed for a 8 gal heater, I wish there would be a option.
We have a GD 399thr and switched to a Fogatti tankless water heater. Will never go back to a tank heater. The tankless uses less LP since it does not keep a tank of water hot all the time. We also get hot water a lot faster than your testing showed, maybe because of make/model? We purchased a Leprechaun 311fs and just completed our second trip out of state. My wife had no hot water for her shower since I switched to electric only to save on LP. She’s demanding a tankless water heater for this RV now. Thanks for the video and taking the time to test them.
Chad thx for the info. Very detailed as usual. Staying with the Suburban W/H tank 12 gal. in our Alliance 310 Paradigm.
Please don’t take this the wrong way… I love watching your channel because you are a “fact geek”.
Safe travels, always.
I've had two tankless units. My last rig had the Girard 38k BTU unit. It was great during warmer months but when the ground water temps started to dip...no, just no. Luke warm water was the best you could hope for. My new rig has the Furrion 60K unit and I love it! HOT water all the time. Of course I don't boondock!
Great video!
Thanks Chad. Great info.
We have a Truma. The unit has a 2 gal tank so when you turn on the hot water it’s ready. Then the burners kick on and we never run out it’s great!!
Thank you for doing this topic. We have the tankless in our Imagine 22mle and hate it for showering. We do what you mentioned with picking a lower temp and just run hot only but don't do navy style but just try to be quick. That waiting about 30-45 seconds for the hot water to come through is too long and wastes gray tank. We have considered checking on going back to the 6 gallon we had previously and it was excellent.
We don’t do a lot of boondocking so we went with Girard tankless and love it. If we do boondock, it would only be a couple of days and that still wouldn’t be an issue for us.
Thanks for the information. Really helpful. I've been wondering about tank less versus a water tank. Looking into a couple different rvs. I will definitely be converting to a 16 gallon water heater
Interesting experiment. For us, our travel trailer has a 6 gallon gas/electric tank. No washer or dish washer just shower and kit sink in our rig. I think we have a well sized and functional system as is. We do have the hot water pre shower recirculatory valve in the shower. Love that thing. Wish the kit sink had it too. Take care.
Our 2017 Alpine has the 12 gallon suburban water heater and when camping several have taken showers back to back with no complaints or problems
We use propane to heat the water in our motorhome. It doesnt take it long to get hot. We don't leave it on. We turn it on for about 20 to 30 minutes and have hot water for dishes, washing hands, etc for hours. We turn it on when we take a shower. Even on hook up, we have never ran out of got water. We don't take as long of a shower with no hook up. We don't want to waste water or fill the gray tank. We have option of electric also.
Great video.
Thanks for the comparison.
I was kinda considering getting a tankless since my normal water heater is 5 years old but now I definitely would not.
I'm full time stationary with electricity included so paying for more propane is not appealing.
More importantly since it can get quite cold here in Tennessee, and I don't know what the water temperature is when it comes into my RV when it's below freezing, I definitely wouldn't want to risk having no hot water in the winter.
I own the same tankless water heater and love it, We boondock at high 6000 feet atlitudes and in cold weather. When the water tank is super cold (below 43 degrees) I adjust the flow knob (on the back of the water heater ) I lower just a smig. I allways have mine set at 109 for everything ( showers and dishes and just washing hands). I have a small rig of 28 feet, this makes a big difference in how long it takes to get hot water/water wasted. Does it waste more water then a tanked water YES! Do I never have to hear my wife complain about running out of water when washing her very long hair NO! totally worth it for me. Her avarage shower time is around 20 mins, mine around 10 back to back! no more waiting 40 mins to heat the water when I get my turn to shower. I do have to say it's not for everyone and that ok. to be honest the propane heater uses way more propane to heat the coach then the water heater will. Love your testing on all things you do. Thanks for taking the time do go thru all those tests. I would get a 60,00 BTU model next rig just so I do not have to change anything for high altittude camping in the snow.
We have the 6 gal suburban, with electric and propane on we can shower 6 people back to back without issue (military showers of course). The recovery rate is so fast, it's recovered by the time the person getting out of the shower is dressed and the next person gets in the shower. I don't think we've ever used more than about 4 maybe 5 gallons doing dishes for 6 people, so never had it run out doing dishes. We use a thermostatic mixing valve set to a hot shower temperature (maybe 104-105ish) so we don't get cold blasts while showering, and is hot enough for dishes still.
Wow...that last fact about the colder source temperature on the tankless is enough for me to say "no thanks" to a tankless. Would be curious to know how much propane was used on the tank water heater when it was doing its recovery - 38 minutes @ 12,000 BTU. Cool comparison Chad, thank you.
You need to test a Truma AquaGo - the best of both worlds!
Another great video Chad and a great comparison.
Good to see someone mentioned the re-circulation valve system...some of them have fancy push buttons with color indicators even.
There is also another option, the diesel heaters like Aqua‐Hot that might be the way to go, depending on your application..?
Great video!
I have the same water heater and when boondocking we turn on bathroom sink faucet and collect into 1/2 gallon bottles .
Once the water is hot we take a shower.
We use that water to fill the dogs water bowls.
Between the 2 of them they consume over a gallon per day.
No wasted water and our shower is hot…
Thanks for the feedback! 👍🏼
It's way too early in the year for math! Very good testing, well done. I have worked on both styles of water heaters. The folks who have the On Demand love it. Only because they don't boondock, and want to take a shower like they did in their homes. I had thought about an on demand if the Suburban gave out in the future. But after seeing the hard numbers of your testing, I'm putting another 12 gallon tank back in there. The trick with an on demand heater is the temperature increase. They are only rated for a 40-50 degree increase in water temperature over the incoming water temperature. They are a snap to winterize, too, especially the Truma.
Our new trailer came with the Girard tankless. Changed it out to a gas/electric after not getting hot water in a trip this past Easter in Colorado. Water barely got hot enough for a shower at 8000 elevation. Not the less I did not like the wasted water when dry camping
We found one downside with the Truma is the fact that you have to descale it when it tells you, that process took 4hours each time, during that time not hot water.
We have a Dometic tank heater now and never ran out of hot water
Thanks for another great info video. Did you consider testing a lower flow with cold source water? Less flow lets the water be in the heat exchanger longer so you should get hotter water out. Probably no help for a shower but maybe helpful to fill a basin for washing dishes. Our 16' Airstream Basecamp has a Suburban/Airxcel IW60RL on-demand water heater with a recirculation pump. It has a 1/2 gallon tank for the recirculation. There are separate switches to turn on the heater and recirculation. Once you go through the cold start process (run water) to light the burner it will stay in an awake state keeping the recirculation tank hot. From then you just turn on the pump when you want hot water and wait a bit for it to do its job. No further water waste. The burner relights as needed when running the water.
We have a tankless in our new unit, we asked to have it removed and have the tank model installed, we were told it’s a learning curve to get use to
We also have the Truma Aqua Go on Demand. It has a small reservoir which allows us to have "instant" hot water on demand. It's not immediate but very quick in both bathrooms, kitchen and shower. While I have not tested the temperature, it is necessary for us to mix cold in with the hot. We are located near Detroit, Michigan in Ontario and camp until mid October in sometimes pretty chilling weather. Thanks for doing the research Chad. Our experience over the last three years is that we will never return to a tank heater
We purchased a new camper in 2023 that came with the Furrion tankless water heater. Our old unit had a regular style water heater with electric / gas option. Your tests confirm our feelings about the tankless perfectly! It wastes water. It makes navy showers nearly impossible. We buy more propane because we can’t use campground electricity to heat water. We don’t like it one bit and would MUCH rather have our old water heater!
Thanks for making this video. I hope rv manufacturers notice and stop taking away the choice of a traditional unit.
We have a 2022 Grand Design 295RL 5ht wheel that came with a Fusion tankless. Absolutely hated it... if the kitchen faucet was turned on while someone was taking a shower, it would stop heating. Cold shower! We changed it out to a 10(?) gallon tank. Love the tank water heater.
Very good test, you spent a lot of time on this. Unfortunately they weren’t the same rv’s so it’s hard to be exact but you did a great job and the video images of the timers were good. I found your results were exactly what I experienced before removing an existing on demand and replaced it with the OE 10gal. I hated the demand. The other thing you kind of mentioned but didn’t expand on was your source water. If you have a tank htr and your source is 39 like you said it would eventually get hot and not be limited to your btu’s. You might never get your water hot enough😮
We've been full-timing with a GD 278BH for about 8 months now, and we love our Furrion tankless WH. It's true that it takes about 30 seconds for hot water to reach our kitchen sink in the rear of the unit, but once the water in the pipes is hot, it doesn't take that long to get hot water back when washing dishes. It takes about 20 seconds to get hot water at our shower, and when I take navy showers, I only get about a 5 second burst of cold water when restarting the hot water (I know it's coming and point it away from me until the water is hot).
You're right that we could collect the cold water to use it for another purpose, but even though we boondock often, we're not usually far from a dump station long enough to worry about it.
The upside of not having to wait a half hour between showers is HUGE for us. With three of us in our RV, it would take about 90 minutes for us to all shower if we were using a 12 gallon tank WH. We've had both tank and tankless WHs, and the tanks just don't work well for us.
I'll stick with my suburban water heater, thanks for an informative video.
@ChangingLanes I have a 2006 Montana 3400RL that I bought used in Oct 2009. It came with a 10 gallon Suburban RV water heater that lasted until Jan 2019, when it would no longer heat water with electric or gas. And the tank lining was gone.
Initially I was looking at installing a 12 or 16 gallon replacement, but looking at the specs, the 10, 12 & 16 gallon water heaters all used the same electric heating element. Which means you would have a longer recovery time to heat the larger quantity of water back to temperature. I don't remember the exact gas burner specs, but I think they were all similar too. So yes, you would have more hot water to start, but if you ran the hot water out of the tank it was a longer recovery time.
I ended up installing the same Girard GSWH-2 as you reviewed back in Jan 2019. At the time the larger 60,000btu heaters didn't have the modulating computer control to maintain a set temperature. At least the ones I found. Overall it's been a great unit. I am a full time, stay in one place for a looooong time (last time I made a big move was 2017 from FL back to TX for a job change) person. Living in my RV more for the less expensive housing costs than for traveling around.
As for my experience, I love it. It has been a reliable performer for the 4 years I've used it. One note though, the manual does say that the heater will run until you're out of propane, like you mentioned. That is NOT true. Looking farther back in the manual at the trouble codes, En is a 20 minute time shutdown. I found this out one cold winter day when I was enjoying a loooooooooooong hot shower. All of a sudden, there was nothing but cold water. UGH!!! That said, the fix is easy. Turn the hot water off, to stop the flow, then back on. When the water starts flowing again the heater will come back online like normal and you get another 20 minutes.
As for the issue with the 86 degree water, all instant heaters have a temperature rise limit based on the BTU and flow rate. Faster water flow means less time in the heater for the water to absorb those BTUs. So, in the case of you 39 degree tank water only getting to 86 degrees, that shows you have a maximum temperature rise of 50 degrees, or so. The 60,000 BTU heater would provide more temperature rise, at the same flow rate, and you might have water hot enough for that shower. Or washing dishes.
This is one thing I considered about the Girard unit I installed. In the summer in TX, the maximum temperature rise isn't an issue. But, come winter in Fort Worth, the cold temperatures combined with the water lines not being buried very deep, I anticipated exactly what you saw. I also contemplating about what I could do with the now unused 120V power line that the instant heater no longer needed. Since the water heater is installed in the end of the kitchen peninsula should I add another appliance outlet?
I thought, why not add an electric instant heater into the mix. And, since the electric is 'free' (included in my rent) I could plumb it in series in front of the Girard so it preheats the water before the propane heater. Giving me more total temperature rise for when the incoming water was colder. And reducing the amount of propane needed when the incoming water temp was warmer. The only problem was that a 120V instant electric water heater has very little temperature rise. Especially at the flow rate of a shower head. It seemed pointless.
I found I could get more heating from larger electric instant heaters, but they were 240V. Then it dawned on me, the 14 AWG wire was good for 15 amps at either 120 or 240V. I ended up finding a 3300W, 240V heater. I had room in the existing AC panel to add a 2-pole 240V 15A breaker. So I installed a 3300W 240V electric instant heater, in series in front of the propane instant heater. Works great!!! On single digit winter days, when I've had to run off water in my tank due to the RV park's water lines freezing, I've had enough temperature rise combined between the heaters for a nice shower. That said, I have to turn the breaker off in the summer because the high incoming water temps, boosted higher by the electric instant heater, were too high for the Girard. LOL
As for my propane usage for the water heater, I can't say specifically. I am single, do minimal cooking with the propane stove and heat the RV with mostly electric (combination of heaters, fireplace and electric heating element in the front AC unit) only using the furnace when temps get below freezing to supplement the electric heaters. That said, I'm averaging six 30lb propane refills per year.
In summary, you're assessments on the propane tankless are on the money Chad. If you've got full hookups they're great. You do need to adjust your RV tactics though. When my mom visited I had to tell her to let the water run in the shower as she was used to Navy showers in her small motorhome.
One thought though, what is the flow rate comparison between the two RVs? Like I mentioned above, flow rate corresponds to maximum temperature rise. So, if the two kitchen faucets had different flow rates, or the bathroom shower head vs faucet, that could affect the results. Lower flow rates also means it takes more time to flush the cold water out of the line before you get hot water. But lower flow rates are good for lower BTU instant heaters that don't have the temperature rise for higher BTU ones.
For boondonking, the issues you mentioned with the water 'wasted' while the heater comes online and the hot water actually gets to the faucet are problematic. But that reminds me of when they first started using instant heaters in regular houses. Faucets far from the heater took a while to get hot water. The answer was to install a recirculating pump. Turn the pump on and it pulls water from the hot line, at the faucet and sends it back on the cold line. Often setup with a temp sensor to shut the pump off when hot water gets to the shutoff valve for the faucet. I even remember one installation, in a bathroom, where they used a motion sensor to trigger the pump when someone entered the bathroom automatically.
From a pure engineering perspective, one solution to the wasted water is to minimize the distance between the heater and fixture. Installing multiple heaters, usually electric as it's easier than to run wires than gas/propane supply & exhaust plumbing. The trouble is electric instant heaters need lots of watts to have the necessary temperature rise. For example a 240V 50A electric instant heater only has about a 55 degree temperature rise at about 1.5 gallons per minute. That would utilize the WHOLE 50A RV power connection just to run an hot shower.
We use Agua Go tankless and the initial cold water we save and we use in the Berkeley water system.
I totally agree with your assessment of the tank vs tankless. We have a tankless heater and it works great for full hook ups. The delay when not at a full hook up spot just is not practical. One other bit of information with the water source temperature. We were in the Florida Keys in June. Water source temp was too cold by itself, but the water source was too warm to use the water heater even set on the coldest temperature for taking a shower. We were not able to balance out the temperature to take a comfortable shower with adding cold water to the hot water at the lowest setting.
Oh wow! I hadn't considered that. I guess the burner has a minimum power... Thank you for sharing!
We have the same heater as you do. Just the 2 of us also. When showering, we turn on both gas and electric and find that the 16 gallons per hour recovery rate makes it so we never run out of hot water.
This just reflects the advertising ," you have endless hot water", ( once its hot, and if you don't turn it off and on ) We just purchased a new Keystone with the on demand, and I am worried about just this, waiting longer and not having it ready. We are tankless at home and that works just fine, depending on ground water temp, these things can only raise your initial water temp so much.
I have a tankless and love it. I have RA and need fairly frequent long hot showers. We're TT members so 90% of the time we have full hookups and don't stay at a site without sewer for longer than a week at a time. If we don't have full hookups I'll just use the bathhouse. It's worth it for us to deal with it being occasionally inconvenient when we don't have sewer, though I could see it being less useful for someone who frequently doesn't have full hookups. The model we have is a GIRARD Tankless RV Water Heater, 12V Power, 42,000 BTUs, 2GWHAM which I think is roughly equivalent to what you were testing. I will say that we've stayed in some pretty cold temperatures, including in Texas when they had the big freeze event a bit ago, and have never had issues with getting the water hot enough.
Great video and informative. I guess the bottom line comes down to personal preference. I think on demand would be better if you just used the hot water knob and didn't add cold and leave a trickle between wash and rinse.
Hi Chad, we have a Tuma tankless hot water heater, but ours has a recirculating pump in it with a small tank. It keeps the water warm through the trailer. it has two Settings, Eco, or recirculating.
The Girard has a flow control knob on the backside to slow water down so it’ll heat to temp if you have really cold inlet water. (Yes not easily accessible but it’s there)
Plus you need at least .8 GPM
of water flow so slowing the flow down can drop you below that and it won’t work at all. This is an issue on water saver faucets and I’ve had to change the aerator to get better flow.
Also the water miser is the solution to saving water in the shower and keeping hot water flowing.
Chad great video. When winter camping the tank heater helps keep the basement warmer as well as the plumbing around it. I'm not sure a tankless is the best thing if you're snow camping.
The ambient temperature of the water is probably an equal in both systems, heck the water from our hookup in Arizona was bath temperature right at the tap.
Even with our little 6 gallon unit we have never run out of hot water while camping. We only ever used the electric element. We've used these new tankless units and don't care for them. A downgrade in our opinion. Great vid!
Used the Atwood electric water-heater exclusively. (Had propane burner also). Main reason for using electricity, was due the cost and bottle refill pain of propane, at a park where electricity was included in site fee. Just enough hot water available, (with on and off), water cycling.
Thanks for this video. Very interesting numbers. Our unit has a Furion tankless water heater and after 2.5 years of using it I have figured out how to use it. I tried the setting of the water temp to a value of around 110 degrees but as you noticed, input water temp and air temp in the basement can cause the actual temp to very on a day-to-day basis. For that reason, I just leave it at 124 degrees. All of my shower are navy showers from habit because the grey tank is only 36 gallons, and a continuous shower could fill it up before I am done. (I have had to get out of the shower and open the grey tank drain before I have finished and that is not fun). I turn on only the hot water and start the shower as soon as the water is warm enough to get the washcloth wet and then my body. I usually don't need to turn on any cold water in the first phase. When I turn off the shower to soap up, I turn off the hot water at the valve, not the shower head. The trickle of water coming out is not enough flow to cause the water heater to keep heating the water and you fill the water heater with cold water. After I am soaped up, I turn back on the hot water and start to rinse off. I usually still have warm water and after a minute I need to start turning on cold water, so it is comfortable. For washing dishes, I put everything in the sink and use the pots for soapy water. I don't worry about the water being real hot, warm is good enough. After everything soaks for a few minutes, I wash everything and leave it in the sink or dish strainer until I am ready to rinse. Then I rinse everything, and the water is hot for most of it.