Coin Conservation vs coin cleaning. A coin theory video.
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- čas přidán 20. 11. 2018
- My hope is that the coin collecting community can have open and honest conversations about coin cleaning vs coin conservation. These are my views . Please comment. Most coin topics are light hearted and not a lightening rod, so expect more videos to be in that vein.
Everyone is going to follow pretty much the rules that support their individual coin collecting strategy. Collectors of potentially high value coins, raw or graded, are less likely to favor cleaning while not being strictly opposed to professional cleaning and preserving.
On the other hand, collectors, stackers and new enthusiasts want the best coins and best looking coins they can afford and if that means cleaning them or dipping them they’ll probably do just that too. It’s their coin.
The way things are now regarding cleaned coins we have to decide for ourselves whether the greatest good is achieved because it’s high value or love of the coin.
If I need to clean my coin I will. I just received a so-called BU from XXXXX 😔😤 that sure could use a cleaning or return postage.
Ben, thanks for your input in this video. 👍🏽
53 years in this hobby and I 100% agree with you.
I totally agree with your perspective. There are coins that I buy as a collector that are in horrible shape and I buy them because I can see possibilities for preservation that will bring the coin back to "life". Great video. Thank you for making it. This is an important topic for discussion.
I liked your video, very well thought out and useful, I share many of your ideas, thank you.
your honesty - is the FIRST and FORTHRIGHT reason that I watch your videos....PLEASE DON'T STOP
with regards to the contents of this specific video - I couldn't agree more...It seems like Peace Dollars are a coin that benefits from dipping a lot of the time because the luster can get so muted when it tones but I enjoy both coins for the variety and even the fact that I know my coin is original if it does have appropriate toning to it so...it's tough to say one way or the other.
My favorite coins have detail. My second favorite is Shiny. You guessed it, I'm a simple-minded collector who has no time for dull, worn coins.
Ben,. Found your channel just a bit ago,. Great job young man,. Thanks for time putting it all together,. Rick of MI
I have carefully listened as well as experienced both sides of this coin..LOL It all seems like a play on words, professional means experience and access to cleaning methods that normal collector's do not have, I really don't understand extremes when what is wanted is the same as, Washing your clothes, shining your shoes, cleaning your dirty car, having a white smile and so fourth. It ALL comes down to "Eye appeal" Cleaning a coin should not make someone either better, smarter etc. I totally agree that to "Damage a coin is simply wrong, HOWEVER, to enhance the eye appeal of one in the right way is a winner for everyone. It's not rocket science, make a decision for yourself either fix an unsightly issue of just leave it to become worse. Even those who condemn coin cleaning sell them, what's up with that??? I myself don't like ugly, it's worthless, beauty is AWESOME, do what you need to do, and do it the right way and everyone wins!!!!!!!!!! Take care, and Thank you!!!!!!!!!! PS How do you bring something "Back to life" that has never been alive...LOL
Great video, thanks. I have some beautiful proof coins that look foggy and im afraid to touch them, how do the pros do it? I do believe that history should be preserved there is also the issue of repaired coins that I know there are many thousands out there (CRS- coin repair service) especially the barber coins. I am new to this hobby and have been unaware of the bad purchases I've made until it was to late, I guess everyone has. I'm curious about selling and grading, trying to sell, ebay, great collections, heritage and so on. I think of the multitude of coins thru-out the decades that have been cleaned and sold and on and on. I'm to old to coin roll hunt, there is so much more to learn it seems impossible to to ever make heads or tails of it all. People like yourself are invaluable to me. Thank you for your work.
Thanks! Keep watching and ask specific questions. The most important thing is to be patient! Don't rush into things. If you have a local coin shop with good guys they will mentor you. In the mean time, ask questions, I'll make videos from beginner to advanced levels! Thanks for watching.
We have to have a standard, something I think you're all in on. I respect your very eloquently stated opinion. We can only work to make the grading process better. I am not qualified to clean or otherwise treat a coin, so I comment here and hope the process improves.
Thanks for the comment. Amen.
As a person that finds their coins metal detecting. Cleaning is a hard decision to make. Generally silver coins coming from the earth, need nothing more than water. Depending on the soil they sat in most of the time they hold their luster. But copper coins like cents. And nickels time in the soil is not so kind. They really have no value to speak of unless they are key dates. This is just the case of coins from the detecting hobby.since I don’t sell my finds, I do experiment some mild cleaning processes. Your video was very informative and I enjoyed it.
Thanks! I don't know all the ins and outs on the copper cleaning. I know how to get PVC off, but I'm sure you see all kinds of situations I've never seen!
Yes there are so many old coins still out there to be saved. Unfortunately the elimates takes a toll on them. I try me best. But some times they are too far gone even for my collection.
I'm fine with it as long as the seller is honest about it
Great to see your face :)
Ben what is the best temperature or controlled environment that coins should be stored to prevent damage to coins (gold and silver primarily) that are in air tite and slabs?
Desiccant and dehumidifying packages are stored with the coins.
🙏🏽
Good video
Thanks for watching!
Question on a somewhat related topic. If a milk spotted coin is melted...will the 'new' coin/pour/creation be milk spotted as well by default? Or will the impurities be burned/melted away?
Thank you for the vid! I enjoy good numismatic conversation so thank you for your courage on this controversial topic. I understand both sides and I know coin cleaning will be around for the rest of time. Unfortunately for a lot of people (and probably more often than not), they will clean coins that should have never been cleaned. And there will be beginners in numismatics that unknowingly buy cleaned coins and have their excitement dashed when they find out later that they overpaid for "details coins" (and probably never come back to the hobby). The percentage of coins that should maybe be cleaned is such an extremely small percentage that I question how much we should focus on "how to clean coins". As I said in your previous video, I don't agree with your choice of coins that you dipped. In my opinion, a coin has to look ridiculously bad for me to even consider cleaning it. Thank you for the follow-up and keep the vids coming - my favorite type being the history behind the coin designer, mint, what was going on while certain coins were in circulation, why the metal composition changed in early coins, etc.
A ridiculously bad coin is seldom a candidate for cleaning, such as dipping, because the tarnish has eaten into the surface of the coin and will be seen as a white haze after dipping. Now, lightly but unsightly tarnished coins can be brought back to frosty, blast white with a quick dip and rinse. I conserve coins for a LCD, and often refuse to touch a coin, but when it is a good candidate, the results can be spectacular.
@@meteoman7958 Thanks for your comments. Spot on!
Thanks again. I appreciate your input. I don't know how I missed this comment from before. I guess me and technology need to learn to communicate better!
I would have loved to have seen that 1916 Qaurter before and after!
Me too!
What?
Hi Ben I have a question - I got a really good deal on a 1879-S Reverse of 1878 Morgan PCGS AU50 that says nothing about the reverse of the coin being what it is. All the holder says is 1879-s and AU50...What should I do in that case considering the fields definitely have PL intentions...I really kind of wish this coin was yours so you could do your normal crack out process. Can I send them the coin in the holder to NGC and ask their opinion on the matter? If I had to guesstimate... I'd imagine it's somewhere between AU53 and MS the average of which is AU58 but the fields and the reverse make something I got for 50 bux worth considerably more judging by Grey Sheet...Lastly, the only coin like it I see on Ebay for $450 - which seems high for what their coin is considering it doesn't have the nice fields mine does...Thoughts?
When I first started collecting about 15 years ago, that is what I was always told: Don’t clean your coins. As I became more experienced and narrowed my taste to what I liked, I began to diverge from the “Don’t clean...” mantra.
I think most of us agree that old coins have been “cleaned” at some point, be it a very light “dusting” to those horrible attempts that have just ruined the beauty of a coin like brush marks and abrasive cleaning results. I personally, don’t like coins that look unnaturally shiny.
Today, I’m not against cleaning, or conserving a coin. I don’t do it myself because I don’t know how, so I would and have sent in coins to NCS for conservation and grading. If I could do the job and have the exact same results I’ve seen with NCS preserved coins, I would and, if I sold it, would let the buyer know. It would be up to him/her at that point whether to purchase or not.
I think professionally conserved coins are just as valuable as a non preserved coin.
Just my opinion. Great video and really good information! Will subscribe and you got a 👍
Thank you for your thoughts
Thanks for the great discussion on "Cleaning" I just collect for myself... What is your opinion on just placing a "dirty" coin in some warm water and then patting it dry. Is that a reasonable way to clean a coin? I would not want to damage the coins i have.
Water won't hurt a coin. Air drying may leave spots on the coin if done incorrectly. Patting dry with a soft cotton towel may scratch a coin if done incorrectly. Surface scratches are likely to be very noticeable on MS and Proof coins and will hurt their value significantly. The same scratches on a well circulated coin may never even be noticed.
Cleaning coins is such a difficult process to make a coin better after the cleaning adventure that it is something best left to experts. Home grown restoration process will usually destroys value unless you are very sure of your cleaning processes. If a restored coin is professionally cleaned without any of the typical signs of cleaning (NGC restoration process is an example), then I have no problems with the finished product. However, this is something left to the experts.
Thanks. That's a great summary.
I disagree that "home grown restoration process will usually destroys value". If a person uses common sense and treats coins gently, they are unlikely to significantly affect the value of circulated coins. They certainly won't destroy their value. I don't collect MS or Proof coins so I have no opinion on home conservation methods for them.
I have always felt that cleaning for preservation purposes is acceptable so as to not have the coin be further damaged, my biggest issue with cleaning is more from those who do it to make a coin appear better than it is. Never have an issue with a little soap and water for common circulation coins that have pop residue and other gunk on them to clean that off before being spent again.
By definition, a coin can't look "better than it is." But a coin with an artificial appearance is undesirable, if that's what you're talking about.
I have two further topics of interest below. First Thank you for this video. You communicate very well. I agree with your statements about acquiescing control of certain functions to a limited few like the Grading services. However I think you eluded to the what I see is the real purpose of PCGS and NGC cleaning/conservation services which is to provide this capability to collectors who could not perform this function safely themselves.
Two other topics I’d like to hear you cover would be PCGS verse NGC grading - when to choose one over the other. Particularly in light that it seems a same grade valuation is much higher with PCGS. Why would I not want to achieve a higher value/ sales price potential?
Send topic is whether to sell sealed mint rolls like state quarters, old proof or mint sets, etc. or open them to check for variety’s or high grade examples for higher return?
Thanks
I'll keep these in mind as I make some videos. The PCGS/NGC question is very compelling when you put it in the frame of reference that PCGS will be worth more. Thanks for your comments.
What about the coins that have been discovered buried and they were cleaned and they are still worth a lot
How does one properly preserve or conserve coins?
If the coin is really valuable then you should send it to NCS (a part of NGC). Here is a video of the simple version.
czcams.com/video/yB-LdLZS9BA/video.html
If you are just dying to clean your coins consider buying lots of bronze ancient coins. Cleaning of ancients is totally accepted and many enjoy the painstaking process of removing 2 millennial of encrusted dirt from ancients dug out of the ground. There are even some YT channels dedicated to videos of the process. 😊
What do you think about "Conserv Safe Coin Solvent" ?
I'm not familiar with the product.
I’ve seen people pay for the conservation and then get a cleaned grade.😳
On the other hand, I've seen people dip coins and then get a straight grade from PCGS or NGC. Some win, some lose, some are born to sing the blues.
In fairness, the coin could have been cleaned BEFORE the conservation process. But yes, if it wasn't, then paying for it to be cleaned...and then having it labelled as "cleaned," is the height of absolutely getting the worst of it both coming & going.
There is a big difference between cleaning a coin and polishing it, polishing it ruins it in my opinion, cleaning done properly is fine, again in my own personal opinion.
I think the best answer is to clean a coin but only if you know how. If you don’t know hoe be conservative with it cuz once it’s improperly cleaned it most likely can’t be undone and now the coin is ruined forever
Not ruined. Just not worth as much as it used to be. It's not the end of the world.
My question would be and for anyone who may know.. What does NGC use to preserve coins?????
I don’t know the answer to that. …
They don’t tell. It’s proprietary information essential to maintaining their business.
They also do not want to encourage amateurs to start playing around with dangerous chemicals - possibly harming themselves and their coins in the process.
So from what im learning so far in the fact that i am new to the hobby (and boy do i got questions lol???) I need an email Ben... Im learning that everybody lives and dies by ngc and pcgs. They obviously subjectively grade, especially or often when the next grade up is big money??? Then you are are really trashed when a coin come back unnatural color, details, cleaned and even to point out an obvious scratch... just grade the coin! Then they also decide your coins fate because of haze or the fact you dip it, run under water and wipe off with a paper towel??? Its a lot of work, time and money to get started and get good coins in the hobby because of all that control over the coins and process. How did the hobby become such a racket for just those 2 companies? Has it just always been that way???
It's like anything else - there are pros and cons. Lot's of people squabble about the cons but don't talk about the pros. Yes, the grading companies seem to have a special love/hate relationship with the rest of the coin world.
@@TheCoinGeek I got a question for you Ben if you get the time? If you could get 1 or 2 coins a paycheck or bullion how and what would you get ? I only have about 100$ or less even each time.. I want morgans and peace and most for the money, graded and not. Should I save to get the higher graded rare dates for coins? Double dies? Gold? Platinum? Pall? What or how would you do it? And can i order coins from your shop? Is it old pueblo coin?
@@JW-wn2oo I'll make a video about your first question. The second question is go to www.oldpueblocoin.com
@@TheCoinGeek Thank you sir.. look forward to it and i will definitely check that out 🙏
"I'm learning that everybody lives and dies by ngc and pcgs." Not everyone. I do not own a single slabbed coin. But I started collecting back in the 1960s, when most collectors did it for fun, not to make a profit. My collection consists of circulated coins which I will never sell. After I am dead, my kids may sell them, but I won't. I grade my own coins so I have no need to have a third party do so. Since I'm not in it for the money, I have no problem washing a dirty coin in soapy water or gently dipping an unsightly tarnished silver coin. I noticed a change in the attitude of collectors in the late sixties, when both the US government and every man on the street started pulling all of the silver out of circulation.
I do
i put them in the bed of my truck then drive through the car wash.
"I don't think authority should be taken from the people..." AMEN BROTHER! #NoMask #NoVaccine
Are you an idiot? Genuinely
This theory sounds very libertarian my friend
if i bought it....its mine,...and ill clean it if i want.... if i plan to resell..then maybe thats different...but if it goes in my collection, ill cut it in half and paint it purpul if i want...lol.....serious collectors are a bit too seroius at times
You are within your rights, but please keep in mind that none of us truly “own” the coins we collect. We are merely caretakers who are privileged to acquire nice coins; to enjoy them; to be conservators of them; and then to pass them on to the next collector unimpaired.
If everyone adopted the attitude of “I’ll do whatever the hell I want with my coins” it would not be long before all of the nice, old, scarce or rare classic coins were all ruined and we’d have no well-preserved specimens to enjoy and appreciate. It would lead to the DEATH of our hobby. So please be considerate of other future collectors who might one day wish to enjoy the coins you enjoy today.
A waste of 10 minutes!
"What I wanna do, is be as honest as I can with you..." is what you said. After watching, I can understand why you struggled to say that. A shame you decided not to.
And I don't quite understand how anyone can be so intimidated by a coin grading service.
I see you have a old framed map. Do you ever cover maps and atlases?