Elden Ring's map has been through a few revisions, but some versions were a bit stranger than others. Song used: Outset Island - The Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker OST
Special thanks to honghojyr, who messaged me after having read a book about sea monsters on old maps and recognizing one of the drawings from the unused map tiles. Knowing one of them was a pre-existing asset made it easy to start spotting some of the others. Something I think is interesting is the idea of fantasy settings that still have legends and folk tales, like monsters scribbled in the map margins, that still don't actually exist, despite all the magic and other impossible creatures. Naturally it'd be easy to expect giant krakens and sea serpents to be real in a story that already has magic, but they could just as easily be nothing more than the idle daydream of someone in-universe there as well.
It's a good point that fiction and myth would exist even within a fantasy realm! Plenty of tales are woven to inspire folk, like the tales in Dark Souls, which aren't necessarily fictional, but certainly spin the weave a particular way..
That's what I want to think as well. Maybe there's like, one or two messed up sea creatures? But the rest are just someone saying "wait, you saw a FISH with a man's face!?" and going ham when in reality someone just saw like, a beluga whale from an odd angle or something.
Hi, Zullie, recently I am reading a manga called 宗像教授異考録 (Professor Munakata's Study Notes) and the first chapter 巫女の血脈 (Bloodline of Shrine Maiden) introduces the story of stone statues from Jōmon period of Japan (縄文時代). The face of stone statues resembles Godwyn's distorted face perfectly. I recommend you to check it and do a video if you would like to (The Wikipedia titlepage of Jōmon period features the very stone statue). I also recommend this manga because it contains many interesting stories about Japanese folk tales but I do not know if the manga has an English translation.
@@abragramstinkin1345 We really out here transvestigating somebody we know absolutely nothing about. And even if she's trans, who cares? Go outside and stop being so obsessed.
@@brub1738 I think Its because the Fromsoft games are famous by the phrase: If you see it you can go there, so making a distant inaccesible event like that would be frustrating by the veteran company players and a contradiction to their design philosofy (sry for the broken english)
@@ymotle (you came across just fine dw) i think this is a very good way of thinking of it. games, especially ones where the director/producer is so close to the management of every team, tend to be tied to certain maxims of design. it helps make them intuitive and consistent in that way that makes games enjoyable.
@@ymotle wrong, there are 2 massive landmasses you can seem from the Lands Between and we can't go there. (they're also ACTUAL models and not just texture in the skybox)
In a game where most of the really f*cked up things come from space, the idea of some even greater evil lurking in the waters is incredibly fascinating!
A funny coincidence is that I decided to look up some stuff about squids after this and one of the people mentioned was Frederick Aldrich, which is interesting because of the Aldrich Faithful being associated with the deep in DS3
Reminder that the outer gods are outer to Marica''s Golden Order, not outer to the planet. They're still, as far as we can tell, part of the life sprouted by the comet sent by the greater eill
Bloodborne does connect the two heavily. With lakes and seas being holders for the Eldritch or worknig as barriers. As with Rom. It's also featured in Lovecraft's work with C'thulu and the fish people ruled by Dagon. So if Elden Ring already deals with Eldritch space beings(although a much less Lovecraftian inspired aspect) it wouldn't be suprising to see something related to the sea in the DLC.
@@NorthWolf97 Yeah "dangerous things coming from space"... ok... you killed the dangerous things that landed on THIS island... but what about that other island... over there....
It feels likely that they were originally there as embellishments, but then removed so as not confuse players who may have thought they were actual creatures you'd get to encounter/fight at some point
Duality of soulsborne players: "Wow this world is so complex, deep, and beautifully written, I wonder what references I'll find" or "haha big club make smush of monster head"
yea, things like that have made people speculate about easter eggs, hidden content, and similar things for ages now. But in a way, I kind of like that because it creates an allure of mystery. I remember watching all of those conspiracy theory videos about bigfoot, sasquatch, aliens, and serial killers being hidden in games like GTA or other games when I was a kid. It made me so fascinated and fueled my curiousity. ^^
@@ElegantHope that is unfortunately a thing of the past for most part now that people can so easily look through all the game data, and that info spreads so quickly.
That is my top assumption, as well. FromSoftware has built this expectation over and over again with everything you see in the distance being something you can eventually get to and see up close. In Dark Souls you can see the Great Hollow tree and Blighttown from Firelink Shrine. You can see the Demon Ruins from the Tomb of the Giants. In Dark Souls 3, after you kill Vordt, you get a good look at most of the areas in the game before being carried off. So putting things in the distance of your map that you can't actually see would be even more immensely disappointing than if any other developer did that.
@@DhampirBoy Even so, in Elden Ring far in the distance behind things like the Haligtree etc, you can see land masses, and all the while they hint at and talk about distant worlds or places like the Land of Reeds. Just makes me want even more Elden Ring content 🤤
My theory is that they removed some of these drawings on porpuse, in case we as players wouldn´t feel underwhelmed of being unable of exploring the sea with apparently so much going around.
Leakers say it’s because it was a spoiler for the DLC, as “that thing” is the last boss. In a surprising twist, unlike every other boss in the series, he looks nice just like in the drawing. But you fight him in a swamp of super sea rot
Honestly my bet is that they included them at first because it's a thing old maps do and it feels flavourful, only to then realize that it might awaken player expectations, so to avoid disappointment they removed them for the final version.
I was thinking the exact same thing. And subsequently maybe to also limit adding any/more unnecessary speculation to the game’s already extremely speculative nature and avoid speculative overkill.
I like to think the weird sea serpent with a human face is just some type of regular sea creature that got misremembered and morphed as more people told stories about it until the description of it became almost wholly detached from reality.
my favourite example of that in real life is the Questing Beast. look up artist renditions of what they imagined it would look like; some weird snake headed leopard/deer hybrid. And then you find out they were drawn based on vague descriptions of girrafes 😂
For a game with with tons of beaches and an entire area sinking into a marine lake, Elden Ring has a distinct lack of sea creatures and weapons & items based on them - it's something I've always wanted to sea in prior Souls games, and I'm holding out hope maybe an Ash Lake-esque water level makes it into the dlc!
I mean even if you can't swim in-game they could've implemented as a gimic fight like Rykard and the Serpent Hunter spear or the Demon Soul's Dragon God fight with the ballistas.
come to think of it, I think DS1's hydra miniboss might be the only enemy in the franchise that's associated with water to some capacity and uses it in attacks (I mean Rom is fought in the middle of a lake but she just flails around and casts space comets at you)
@@colossaltitan3546 same with Rennala and the Elden Beast. Both their arenas are water, but don't utilize water in their attacks. The only one off the top of my head I can think of is the Tibia Mariner occasionally splashing water at you with the horn.
I think the thing that is easily missed is that due to Elden Ring's focus on religion, deities, and funerary rights, there's a possibility that there may have been Outer Gods who lived in the ocean. We've seen avian psychopomps like the Deathbirds, and there are even aquatic ones like the Tibia Mariners. There are also corpse-like shambling humans on several beaches, so there is a potential connection between death and the sea.
Related, but the Lands Between aren’t completely isolated in the middle of the sea- you can somewhat see from the northernmost points on the map (though mostly just the Haligtree- the Mountaintops and the Snowfield can be too foggy to see I think), there’s another fairly sizable landmass admittedly not too far off the Lands’ northern coast. I haven’t heard any reference to it, but I wonder if the landmass is one that we know of already, be it the Land of Reeds or the Badlands (although, if I’m not mistaken, the Badlands are said to be “across the fog”, and I believe the sea south of the Weeping Peninsula is known as the sea of fog.) No big lore theories from me atm, but I’m curious what anyone else might make of it? Land of Reeds a bit to the North, Badlands far to the South, and the Lands Between… ya know, between them, maybe? (I know, Lands “Between” likely refers instead to being between Siofra and Ainsel Rivers)
@@Zayd-bg1pt I can’t check atm, but it’s definitely visible from the Haligtree- keep in mind it’ll be on the northern side, but the height you start at on the Haligtree branches (very first grace) may be enough to see from there
Adding a couple related details (I’ll keep doing this as I actually think through my observations lol), but I believe it’s stated that the Land of Reeds is far to the east, meaning this northern landmass is likely different- although I think there might be another landmass in the East? Could be the northern one is Kaiden? I tried looking it up, and I can find a couple general references to these landmasses, but not much in the way of detail. Only that the northern land is “twice the size of Liurnia”, apparently! Dunno, lots to chew on, I’ll be back again to pick at this I’m sure lol
I still think Godwyns final model was originally the Umibozu, or related to the Umibozu somehow- and the design was so cool that when they scrapped the Umibozu as an enemy, they altered its model slightly and made it Godwyn. I have never heard a better theory about why Godwyn looks like that. It makes more sense to me than any other convoluted theory.
Another interesting connection beside the black head/death blight and the fish tail is that Umibozu are said to come with stormy weather and we find a Godwyn head under Stormveil. Additionally there is a theory about the origin of umibōzu that they are the spirits of dead priests who were thrown into the ocean by Japanese villagers for some reason or another. Because their bodies have nowhere to be laid to rest, their souls inhabit the oceans and haunt it in the shape of a dark shadow, reaping its revenge upon any souls unlucky enough to come across it... Sounds like Rogier and how he catches death blight from the Godwyn under Stormveil to me.
My problem with that is Umibozu look nothing like Godwyns final design, and it lacks a lot of the importance to the myth features. Not saying it couldn't have been, I just think the Umibozu would have been (especially since the incomplete one in the files is seemingly a large entity) a "out of reach" scare/trap that didn't quite pan out on execution
@@BudravenOGwhat’s super interesting is that the Design Works of Elden Ring pretty much confirms it’s “wind erosion” that’s causing a lot of the damage on Stormveil and it’s backed up by many thing, biggest example being the winds always traveling east making direct contact with the Western Wall of Stormveil, where most of the mottling and thorns can be found. Nepheli when she talks about Godrick states “he’s tainted the very winds” because of his grafting and I assume this is why all the exiles wear hoods that cover their faces with even the 1.0 claiming it prevents the “curse”(corrupted winds) from “slipping inside”. Another piece of evidence is the environment in the Chapel of Anticipation where you see the same thorns manifesting and the trees bending east. I assume this is the reason the Chapel is standing on a tall cliff with it deteriorating from the winds that originate in that direction. The Marred Leather Shield of course eludes to Godwyn being the source of the curse and it would make sense because he is know to spread corruption and was a lightning wielder, paralleling the firstborn Nameless King figure from Dark Souls 3 in many ways(firstborn son who befriended the dragons and began a cult) and also influenced the storm.
@darkpuppetlordful Yeah, that is true, but the name Umibozu could have been just the "model name" to represent the inspiration/design and not intended to represent an actual Umibozu from myth. From's been known to do that a lot. And he *does* vaguely resemble the depiction of the Umibozu in Bakemono no E (so does the mermaid thing drawn on the old map Zullie shows off in this vid, too). Ever since I accidentally stumbled across Godwyns face in Stormveil on my first blind playhrough, Ive been obsessed with *why does he look like that*. Theres nothing in game that explains it, and yeah Ive heard Westerners try and link it with Japanese myths about death and stagnant water or something, but I can tell you first hand theres minimal correlation. Which leads me to believe there was more to it that was cut or altered in development. Idk. I hope the DLC explains it, but I doubt we're gonna be that lucky.
@@childofcascadia my problem is threefold. First, there's a full body for that Godwyn form that when looked at fully looks more humanoid than the manfish from the map (it does also prove the face under the castle is his) so its a very tenuous likeness, secondly the image on the map is literally a placeholder from real map's (as Zulle shows in video) so it's hard for me to think a placeholder image would inspire such a central character design, even if it's based off of one depiction of an Umibozu. Lastly, Bakemono no E is a unique depiction of Umibozu that, while not in direct conflict with other depictions, isn't going to be as immediately recognized in the western world (as Elden Ring is pretty explicitly a game made for an international audience) Also, as an extra point, the shrouded silhouette Umibozu that remains in files doesn't match with the man fish, as it's basically a giant shadowman
One thing I've recently noticed is that Godfrey's axe seems to be decorated with octopus tentacles and seaweed. Combined with Godwyn's completely unexplained transformation into a giant sea monster which resembles the corpse under Stormveil (I'm still not convinced its just a Deathroot copy of Godwyn, there's a lot of evidence pointing to it being an actual corpse that predates Stormveil castle like it being at the center of an ancient temple/boat burial site and the complete lack of Deathroot anywhere in Stormveil) it seems like there is a lot of relatively explored sea connections and motifs that were excluded from the game, possibly from GRRM's original writings.
Pretty sure Godwyns fish-like features were inspired by Japanese legends of fishmen corpses which can grant both immortality and curse if found. You know, like with Kos in BB.
"complete lack of deathroot anywhere in the Stormveil" My man all the enemies in Storm have literal black thorns poking out of their garbs and shileds and multiple common drops even mention that fact.
Imagine that as a secret boss in Limgrave. You just hang around the coast at night, and you have a chance to fight off the Kraken, or have a Gadunka leap out at you. It'd be equally horrifying for the sheer scale of the Kraken (Make it accurate, and the thing could crush the Fire Giant), or just as bad for the howling massive beartrap lunging out at you.
@@CazadorSlayerI actually think that was the idea. I think Umibozu (as in the myth they are associated with tricking people into watery deaths) would pop up in places to try and trick the player into walking off a watery ledge, and my guess is they got cut because it was either ineffective or too effective
I would absolutely adore being able to have something similar to Torrent that we could use to travel across water in a special DLC area. Swimming in Sekiro wasn't enough!
Zullie, you have a knack for picking such comforting background music for pondering over images and topics that would otherwise be absolutely terrifying. Love it!
Yeah, and how old it is. Because there are little inconsistencies like bridges that have broken down since the map was drawn, and i don't think its a mistake I think its intentional
I figure it's us. I mean, it's not as if anyone else is giving you a map at any point. You're having to hoof it around yourself "Discovering" the map. Seems to me that the Tarnished moonlights as a cartographer.
Nah, they were definitely playing with the idea - you remember the water section in sekiro. Sadly, they probably realized it needed more time in the oven, unlike the jump button. We *will* have underwater exploration in a souls-like eventually.
And that will be a glorious day, getting to explore a typically dickish fromsoft dungeon while on a timer before we start drowning. We could even make the poison swamp into a poison lake, so as we drown we're also getting poisoned and have zero visibility under the swamp muck.
Yeah I can see this being true, the sekiro water movement was nice, but there was relatively little combat (just drowned corpse dude and some fish) so it was mostly a traversal puzzle skill. I can 100% understand them realizing that it wasn't in a state to be more prominent
What I find so phenomenal about your work is how focused, concise and evidence-based it is! Grand theories are cool and all but there's something very real and reliable about your content above anyone else's.
Imagine DLC with various faraway islands to explore, full of monsters and civilizations inspired with real-life legends about unknown parts of the map. Like cynocephali or headless tribes with faces on their chests. Friendly chest ahead.
I dont know what to say, but i appreciate you a lot, sometimes i just sit outside read a book, then go back inside and just watch some of your videos before i start with my day
I do hope they bring back swimming/underwater mechanics at some point, I’ve always loved the aquatic stuff they’ve done, but there’s so little of it. An entire water themed souls game would be awesome
Absolutely everything in that video is peak fiction. Walking into the severed neck stump of a god-whale that transitions from fleshy eye-studded tunnel into a star-studded portal midway is some of the coolest imagery I’ve ever heard of.
It would have to be another Sekiro-like game because swimming in heavy armor would look pretty ridiculous with some of the armor in ER. Or maybe just go with Bloodborne's "armor".
just too see these creatures in the horizon, breaching the water and such would of been a amazing touch, we dont always have to fight just give us the imagery so we can create our own ideas
It's been said a million times but I love your library of music you cycle through. It's funny how if you made this exact video with an eerie Kings Field song it would have been a totally different video.
The fact that the creature in the thumbnail bears resemblance to Godwyn and also reminds me of the "Lion-Like" boss we saw in the shadow of the erdtree trailer, tells me that maybe a lot more early on in development they were planning for Godwyn to be an actual boss rather than a static object but scrapped it, and decided to use his assets for other things.
I may have an additional explanation : in a sea you can't swim in, displaying ocean monsters would just be an infuriating unsolvable distraction for players, trying to find ways to reach them. Seems unlikely it would repel fromsoftware to include such drawings on the map, though,.to spark rumors for years and years of fruitless but dedicated searches.
This just makes that weird rock-whirlpool even more intriguing, since they would have deliberately left it in after removing all the other sea embellishments.
This was very informative. Well put-together. I had genuinely never seen the Star Maiden statue before. As to the map characters, i f I may speculate a bit, I had heard from a history major friend when I was at university that the designs on the old maps and charts were largely there as space-filler and flourish, similar to the strange designs the Celtic Illuminators would have drawn in the old gregorian tomes. Just visual spectacle for the eye, and often an opportunity for the artist or chartmaker to show off a bit of their skill, and also justify asking for such sums of money for their work. In the case of maps, often sea monsters were chosen as alot of the seas had yet to be properly charted by the modern peoples. Beyond the bounds of what we knew was there was merely what we imagined to be there. Titanic beasts of the heretofore unknown and alien depths of the sea and borders of our maps. Kraken, giant whales and squids, even giant crustaceans as you showed in the video. So it was kind of a combination of the artist adding a bit of flair, and our early imaginations of the sea running wild.
Well, not only would the monsters not have been literal, the sea itself isn't literal. It's some kind of metaphor for crossing between life and death, or between heaven and hell. Tarnished come from an "other side" that cannot be reached and is beyond the ordering structure that the Golden Order has placed on the Lands Between; on this side are only wrecked ships, rusted anchors, and a flood cave where coffins wash up.
one missed opportunity I think was in the elevator for Castle Morne, if you look down see something bright & glowing only for it to periodically disappear for a second. if you stood to watch youd realize it wasnt something underneath swimming by since the light would briefly be occluded from 2 sides consistently. the player realizes theres something gargantuan down there looking at you since thats an eye blinking at you
Such illustrations were common in medieval and renaissance cartography. It was a huge empty space that the cartographer was able to take artistic liberty with because there was nothing to map. I think they were there originally for the same purpose but the designers removed it for a cleaner look.
I'm telling you dude, Fromsoft needs to hop into the pirate genre. Can you imagine like a bloodborne-pirates mashup with skeleton crews and sea monsters, man it would be sick. They could bring back the bloodborne gameplay style with cutlasses and pistols while creating a new IP, best of both worlds
0:49 it’s also worth noting those boats on the map aren’t fully decorative- they represent actual shipwrecks that are visible from the coast in Radahn’s arena and from the cliffs east of Beast Clergyman’s temple.
They say there are plenty of fish in the sea, relating to a partner, however the seas being empty in Elden Ring only prove... that you are indeed maidenless
Can you imagine how freaky a sight it would be in the DLC "shadow realm" you look off into the distant sea and every so often some massive "Umibozu" looking shape rises up and bobs about before descending back into the sea?
if i had to guess i'd say they originally planned to have us either explore the sea or fight some big sea monsters on the coast, but it got cut due to time restraints. miyazaki has been pretty clear in interviews that they were aware their ideas for the game were way too big to fit it all in, and i can imagine a high fantasy game focused on exploration would want to make the sea full of monsters. the variety of sea themed enemies we find were probably designed for the coast or sea areas originally
Special thanks to honghojyr, who messaged me after having read a book about sea monsters on old maps and recognizing one of the drawings from the unused map tiles. Knowing one of them was a pre-existing asset made it easy to start spotting some of the others.
Something I think is interesting is the idea of fantasy settings that still have legends and folk tales, like monsters scribbled in the map margins, that still don't actually exist, despite all the magic and other impossible creatures. Naturally it'd be easy to expect giant krakens and sea serpents to be real in a story that already has magic, but they could just as easily be nothing more than the idle daydream of someone in-universe there as well.
Special thanks to you, Zullie, for fueling my new obsessive daydream for the next month: Elden Ring underwater themed DLC with sea monster bosses
also, many creatures on the map could leave the players speculating over a water-themed DLC or something
It's a good point that fiction and myth would exist even within a fantasy realm! Plenty of tales are woven to inspire folk, like the tales in Dark Souls, which aren't necessarily fictional, but certainly spin the weave a particular way..
That's what I want to think as well. Maybe there's like, one or two messed up sea creatures? But the rest are just someone saying "wait, you saw a FISH with a man's face!?" and going ham when in reality someone just saw like, a beluga whale from an odd angle or something.
Hi, Zullie, recently I am reading a manga called 宗像教授異考録 (Professor Munakata's Study Notes) and the first chapter 巫女の血脈 (Bloodline of Shrine Maiden) introduces the story of stone statues from Jōmon period of Japan (縄文時代). The face of stone statues resembles Godwyn's distorted face perfectly. I recommend you to check it and do a video if you would like to (The Wikipedia titlepage of Jōmon period features the very stone statue). I also recommend this manga because it contains many interesting stories about Japanese folk tales but I do not know if the manga has an English translation.
Tarnished: can kill gods
Also Tarnished : cannot float
it is the side effect of the gigantic pocket universe inventory in the tarnished's butt
While you learned to swim, the tarnished studied the blade.
I think a significant majority of people on earth cannot float/swim
Marika removed the Rune of Swimming.
John Marston: first time?
Oh, that's just Bert. He's a little awkward, but he's chill, trust.
Bert speaks for every Intovert invited to a party...
Bert’s a pretty cool fellow, I have no idea why people are a tab bit terrified of him
Oh my bad I didn’t know he was chill like that
Ah he don’t bite.
Good ol' Bert, he's just a funny lil' guy!
Zullie's music choice: Such a goofy goober.
Zullies video: There might be a giant shadow water demon out in the sea, but we're not sure.
Wind Waker music perfectly fit the video topic, imo.
If you had played Wind Waker, you would know this music fits perfectly.
She uses zelda's songs at random, i doubt WW was on purpose
@@abragramstinkin1345 We really out here transvestigating somebody we know absolutely nothing about. And even if she's trans, who cares? Go outside and stop being so obsessed.
@@bladeoflucatiel This is a video about sea creatures and Wind Waker is about the sea, of course it's on purpose. Lol.
Could you imagine if there was just a 1/1,000,000,000 or something that you see a gigantic fin moving in the distance?
I’m surprised they didn’t take the opportunity to do something like that with all the other little secrets and Easter eggs they put into the game
@@brub1738 I think Its because the Fromsoft games are famous by the phrase: If you see it you can go there, so making a distant inaccesible event like that would be frustrating by the veteran company players and a contradiction to their design philosofy (sry for the broken english)
@@ymotle (you came across just fine dw) i think this is a very good way of thinking of it. games, especially ones where the director/producer is so close to the management of every team, tend to be tied to certain maxims of design. it helps make them intuitive and consistent in that way that makes games enjoyable.
People would simply find about it by looking into game files
@@ymotle wrong, there are 2 massive landmasses you can seem from the Lands Between and we can't go there. (they're also ACTUAL models and not just texture in the skybox)
In a game where most of the really f*cked up things come from space, the idea of some even greater evil lurking in the waters is incredibly fascinating!
A funny coincidence is that I decided to look up some stuff about squids after this and one of the people mentioned was Frederick Aldrich, which is interesting because of the Aldrich Faithful being associated with the deep in DS3
Reminder that the outer gods are outer to Marica''s Golden Order, not outer to the planet. They're still, as far as we can tell, part of the life sprouted by the comet sent by the greater eill
Bloodborne does connect the two heavily. With lakes and seas being holders for the Eldritch or worknig as barriers. As with Rom. It's also featured in Lovecraft's work with C'thulu and the fish people ruled by Dagon.
So if Elden Ring already deals with Eldritch space beings(although a much less Lovecraftian inspired aspect) it wouldn't be suprising to see something related to the sea in the DLC.
@@bacicinvatteneacapretty sure the falling stars, Astel and the like, came from space
@@NorthWolf97 Yeah "dangerous things coming from space"... ok... you killed the dangerous things that landed on THIS island... but what about that other island... over there....
Maybe the DLC will be Another's Crab Treasure after all
Aye I can't wait for Elden Ring: Quest for Booty
I guess that would be a DLSea
The "sands between" confirms this theory
@@officialmasqq_594That's a... different game.
Yo ho ho he ate a bite of gum gum
It feels likely that they were originally there as embellishments, but then removed so as not confuse players who may have thought they were actual creatures you'd get to encounter/fight at some point
Duality of soulsborne players: "Wow this world is so complex, deep, and beautifully written, I wonder what references I'll find" or "haha big club make smush of monster head"
yea, things like that have made people speculate about easter eggs, hidden content, and similar things for ages now. But in a way, I kind of like that because it creates an allure of mystery. I remember watching all of those conspiracy theory videos about bigfoot, sasquatch, aliens, and serial killers being hidden in games like GTA or other games when I was a kid. It made me so fascinated and fueled my curiousity. ^^
@@ElegantHope that is unfortunately a thing of the past for most part now that people can so easily look through all the game data, and that info spreads so quickly.
That is my top assumption, as well. FromSoftware has built this expectation over and over again with everything you see in the distance being something you can eventually get to and see up close. In Dark Souls you can see the Great Hollow tree and Blighttown from Firelink Shrine. You can see the Demon Ruins from the Tomb of the Giants. In Dark Souls 3, after you kill Vordt, you get a good look at most of the areas in the game before being carried off. So putting things in the distance of your map that you can't actually see would be even more immensely disappointing than if any other developer did that.
@@DhampirBoy Even so, in Elden Ring far in the distance behind things like the Haligtree etc, you can see land masses, and all the while they hint at and talk about distant worlds or places like the Land of Reeds. Just makes me want even more Elden Ring content 🤤
My theory is that they removed some of these drawings on porpuse, in case we as players wouldn´t feel underwhelmed of being unable of exploring the sea with apparently so much going around.
on porpoise
They removed those drawings on purpose!
On porpoise! 🐬
…
*_Something_* is fishy! 😉
Leakers say it’s because it was a spoiler for the DLC, as “that thing” is the last boss. In a surprising twist, unlike every other boss in the series, he looks nice just like in the drawing. But you fight him in a swamp of super sea rot
Because the sea is full of broken controllers and keyboards….
and we crack our legs in half when we step on them
That also explains how you can get shit like books, bottles, and leather armour from fishing in minecraft oceans
And car batteries
Honestly my bet is that they included them at first because it's a thing old maps do and it feels flavourful, only to then realize that it might awaken player expectations, so to avoid disappointment they removed them for the final version.
I was thinking the exact same thing. And subsequently maybe to also limit adding any/more unnecessary speculation to the game’s already extremely speculative nature and avoid speculative overkill.
I like to think the weird sea serpent with a human face is just some type of regular sea creature that got misremembered and morphed as more people told stories about it until the description of it became almost wholly detached from reality.
That's pretty much the case for almost all sea monsters, lol
Have you seen old paintings of cats, dogs, and babies? A lot of them tend to have awful adult man faces.
my favourite example of that in real life is the Questing Beast. look up artist renditions of what they imagined it would look like; some weird snake headed leopard/deer hybrid. And then you find out they were drawn based on vague descriptions of girrafes 😂
Have you seen medieval depictions of dolphins?
Like Oarfish basicly then, they were often mistaken for sea serpents.
For a game with with tons of beaches and an entire area sinking into a marine lake, Elden Ring has a distinct lack of sea creatures and weapons & items based on them - it's something I've always wanted to sea in prior Souls games, and I'm holding out hope maybe an Ash Lake-esque water level makes it into the dlc!
imo the ideal setting if bloodborne ever gets a spiritual successor or sequel, the fishing hamlet is awesome
I wished we got some monsters like the Hydras in Dark Souls...
I mean even if you can't swim in-game they could've implemented as a gimic fight like Rykard and the Serpent Hunter spear or the Demon Soul's Dragon God fight with the ballistas.
@@BudravenOG something in the fashion of de lago from RE4 maybe
come to think of it, I think DS1's hydra miniboss might be the only enemy in the franchise that's associated with water to some capacity and uses it in attacks (I mean Rom is fought in the middle of a lake but she just flails around and casts space comets at you)
@@colossaltitan3546 same with Rennala and the Elden Beast. Both their arenas are water, but don't utilize water in their attacks. The only one off the top of my head I can think of is the Tibia Mariner occasionally splashing water at you with the horn.
@BudravenOG if shrine of amana taught me one thing its that water-based areas are dogshit
I think the thing that is easily missed is that due to Elden Ring's focus on religion, deities, and funerary rights, there's a possibility that there may have been Outer Gods who lived in the ocean. We've seen avian psychopomps like the Deathbirds, and there are even aquatic ones like the Tibia Mariners. There are also corpse-like shambling humans on several beaches, so there is a potential connection between death and the sea.
Related, but the Lands Between aren’t completely isolated in the middle of the sea- you can somewhat see from the northernmost points on the map (though mostly just the Haligtree- the Mountaintops and the Snowfield can be too foggy to see I think), there’s another fairly sizable landmass admittedly not too far off the Lands’ northern coast. I haven’t heard any reference to it, but I wonder if the landmass is one that we know of already, be it the Land of Reeds or the Badlands (although, if I’m not mistaken, the Badlands are said to be “across the fog”, and I believe the sea south of the Weeping Peninsula is known as the sea of fog.)
No big lore theories from me atm, but I’m curious what anyone else might make of it? Land of Reeds a bit to the North, Badlands far to the South, and the Lands Between… ya know, between them, maybe? (I know, Lands “Between” likely refers instead to being between Siofra and Ainsel Rivers)
What spots can you see this landmass from?
@@Zayd-bg1pt I can’t check atm, but it’s definitely visible from the Haligtree- keep in mind it’ll be on the northern side, but the height you start at on the Haligtree branches (very first grace) may be enough to see from there
@@Zayd-bg1ptI think from the branches of the haligtree
thanks, I’ll make sure to look
Adding a couple related details (I’ll keep doing this as I actually think through my observations lol), but I believe it’s stated that the Land of Reeds is far to the east, meaning this northern landmass is likely different- although I think there might be another landmass in the East? Could be the northern one is Kaiden?
I tried looking it up, and I can find a couple general references to these landmasses, but not much in the way of detail. Only that the northern land is “twice the size of Liurnia”, apparently! Dunno, lots to chew on, I’ll be back again to pick at this I’m sure lol
Bloodborne fishing hamlet sharks.
They are in there. A lot of them are. You can't convince me otherwise.
Heh...
I'm imaging them swimming around doing slapstick comedy, bonking eachother with those large-ass anchors and shit
Heh, can't help but notice some of the weird faces look like Deep Accursed. I bet Aldrich dropped some in the sea. Ugh.
You're triggering our PTSD, BRO!!
Babe wake up new Zullie
Yes, babe, I woke up
@@hida99ash Oh, it's cute. ☺️
Yes honey.jpg
I still think Godwyns final model was originally the Umibozu, or related to the Umibozu somehow- and the design was so cool that when they scrapped the Umibozu as an enemy, they altered its model slightly and made it Godwyn.
I have never heard a better theory about why Godwyn looks like that. It makes more sense to me than any other convoluted theory.
Another interesting connection beside the black head/death blight and the fish tail is that Umibozu are said to come with stormy weather and we find a Godwyn head under Stormveil.
Additionally there is a theory about the origin of umibōzu that they are the spirits of dead priests who were thrown into the ocean by Japanese villagers for some reason or another. Because their bodies have nowhere to be laid to rest, their souls inhabit the oceans and haunt it in the shape of a dark shadow, reaping its revenge upon any souls unlucky enough to come across it... Sounds like Rogier and how he catches death blight from the Godwyn under Stormveil to me.
My problem with that is Umibozu look nothing like Godwyns final design, and it lacks a lot of the importance to the myth features. Not saying it couldn't have been, I just think the Umibozu would have been (especially since the incomplete one in the files is seemingly a large entity) a "out of reach" scare/trap that didn't quite pan out on execution
@@BudravenOGwhat’s super interesting is that the Design Works of Elden Ring pretty much confirms it’s “wind erosion” that’s causing a lot of the damage on Stormveil and it’s backed up by many thing, biggest example being the winds always traveling east making direct contact with the Western Wall of Stormveil, where most of the mottling and thorns can be found.
Nepheli when she talks about Godrick states “he’s tainted the very winds” because of his grafting and I assume this is why all the exiles wear hoods that cover their faces with even the 1.0 claiming it prevents the “curse”(corrupted winds) from “slipping inside”. Another piece of evidence is the environment in the Chapel of Anticipation where you see the same thorns manifesting and the trees bending east. I assume this is the reason the Chapel is standing on a tall cliff with it deteriorating from the winds that originate in that direction.
The Marred Leather Shield of course eludes to Godwyn being the source of the curse and it would make sense because he is know to spread corruption and was a lightning wielder, paralleling the firstborn Nameless King figure from Dark Souls 3 in many ways(firstborn son who befriended the dragons and began a cult) and also influenced the storm.
@darkpuppetlordful
Yeah, that is true, but the name Umibozu could have been just the "model name" to represent the inspiration/design and not intended to represent an actual Umibozu from myth.
From's been known to do that a lot. And he *does* vaguely resemble the depiction of the Umibozu in Bakemono no E (so does the mermaid thing drawn on the old map Zullie shows off in this vid, too).
Ever since I accidentally stumbled across Godwyns face in Stormveil on my first blind playhrough, Ive been obsessed with *why does he look like that*. Theres nothing in game that explains it, and yeah Ive heard Westerners try and link it with Japanese myths about death and stagnant water or something, but I can tell you first hand theres minimal correlation. Which leads me to believe there was more to it that was cut or altered in development. Idk. I hope the DLC explains it, but I doubt we're gonna be that lucky.
@@childofcascadia my problem is threefold. First, there's a full body for that Godwyn form that when looked at fully looks more humanoid than the manfish from the map (it does also prove the face under the castle is his) so its a very tenuous likeness, secondly the image on the map is literally a placeholder from real map's (as Zulle shows in video) so it's hard for me to think a placeholder image would inspire such a central character design, even if it's based off of one depiction of an Umibozu.
Lastly, Bakemono no E is a unique depiction of Umibozu that, while not in direct conflict with other depictions, isn't going to be as immediately recognized in the western world (as Elden Ring is pretty explicitly a game made for an international audience)
Also, as an extra point, the shrouded silhouette Umibozu that remains in files doesn't match with the man fish, as it's basically a giant shadowman
One thing I've recently noticed is that Godfrey's axe seems to be decorated with octopus tentacles and seaweed. Combined with Godwyn's completely unexplained transformation into a giant sea monster which resembles the corpse under Stormveil (I'm still not convinced its just a Deathroot copy of Godwyn, there's a lot of evidence pointing to it being an actual corpse that predates Stormveil castle like it being at the center of an ancient temple/boat burial site and the complete lack of Deathroot anywhere in Stormveil) it seems like there is a lot of relatively explored sea connections and motifs that were excluded from the game, possibly from GRRM's original writings.
Pretty sure Godwyns fish-like features were inspired by Japanese legends of fishmen corpses which can grant both immortality and curse if found. You know, like with Kos in BB.
Yeah, Zullie even made a video about it before
Godwyn = stagnation bad
I think they refer to the corpse under stormveil as a "Centipede" in dialogue, which certainly isn't a sea creature
"complete lack of deathroot anywhere in the Stormveil"
My man all the enemies in Storm have literal black thorns poking out of their garbs and shileds and multiple common drops even mention that fact.
Imagine that as a secret boss in Limgrave. You just hang around the coast at night, and you have a chance to fight off the Kraken, or have a Gadunka leap out at you. It'd be equally horrifying for the sheer scale of the Kraken (Make it accurate, and the thing could crush the Fire Giant), or just as bad for the howling massive beartrap lunging out at you.
Just walking along when that frickin' Umiboza rises out of the water and glares at you from the deep...
@@CazadorSlayerI actually think that was the idea. I think Umibozu (as in the myth they are associated with tricking people into watery deaths) would pop up in places to try and trick the player into walking off a watery ledge, and my guess is they got cut because it was either ineffective or too effective
Yoooo love the bionicles reference haha
The juxtaposition of the bouncy Wind Waker music with the haunting visuals of Elden Ring makes this very eerie and unsettling. I love it.
Watch us get a sea DLC in another 2 years (no, I'm not taking my pills)
I would absolutely adore being able to have something similar to Torrent that we could use to travel across water in a special DLC area. Swimming in Sekiro wasn't enough!
It will be at the same time that we get a Bloodborne 60fps and a Bloodborne 2 announcement😵
Zullie, you have a knack for picking such comforting background music for pondering over images and topics that would otherwise be absolutely terrifying. Love it!
i always wondered who charted the map of the lands between in universe
Yeah, and how old it is. Because there are little inconsistencies like bridges that have broken down since the map was drawn, and i don't think its a mistake I think its intentional
I figure it's us.
I mean, it's not as if anyone else is giving you a map at any point. You're having to hoof it around yourself "Discovering" the map. Seems to me that the Tarnished moonlights as a cartographer.
It's really impressive how many details about Elden Ring you are still able to bring us.❤ This game is so deep.
I love your videos so much. Always so much detail and care. Thanks for taking the time to make them.
Nah, they were definitely playing with the idea - you remember the water section in sekiro. Sadly, they probably realized it needed more time in the oven, unlike the jump button. We *will* have underwater exploration in a souls-like eventually.
And that will be a glorious day, getting to explore a typically dickish fromsoft dungeon while on a timer before we start drowning. We could even make the poison swamp into a poison lake, so as we drown we're also getting poisoned and have zero visibility under the swamp muck.
@@eclipserepeater2466 3 dimensional underwater combat in the poison swamp.
Yeah I can see this being true, the sekiro water movement was nice, but there was relatively little combat (just drowned corpse dude and some fish) so it was mostly a traversal puzzle skill.
I can 100% understand them realizing that it wasn't in a state to be more prominent
@@eclipserepeater2466 If Michael Zaki reads this we're boned.
Makes me think of the other video Zullie did on flying mounts in Elden Ring.
You always make these small bits of information about these games so interesting. Thank you for making these videos!😀
Outset Island goes hard, great choice!
unparalleled soundtracks as always, geez it's always heartwarming to watch your stuff even if the content is dark af xD
Happy 700K. You deserve it
What I find so phenomenal about your work is how focused, concise and evidence-based it is! Grand theories are cool and all but there's something very real and reliable about your content above anyone else's.
Imagine DLC with various faraway islands to explore, full of monsters and civilizations inspired with real-life legends about unknown parts of the map. Like cynocephali or headless tribes with faces on their chests.
Friendly chest ahead.
You know it’s gonna be a good one when Zullie put the wind waker music on
We love you, Zullie! Thanks for all your hard work!
I dont know what to say, but i appreciate you a lot, sometimes i just sit outside read a book, then go back inside and just watch some of your videos before i start with my day
I swear so many Elden ring lore videos have wind Waker music, and I’m all here for it
The cheery music while looking at Godwyn is so funny. Great work
Love how you followed up a video with Kokiri Forest as the music with Outset Island. Fitting.
i loveee this. the music and content is so charming.
Absolutely stellar insight. I had no idea about the placeholder stuff until now.
always on point with your research, thanks ! i didnt even played elden ring but i like watching your content
I do hope they bring back swimming/underwater mechanics at some point, I’ve always loved the aquatic stuff they’ve done, but there’s so little of it. An entire water themed souls game would be awesome
I remember in a Vaati video people made a submission for a Pirate and Deep Sea themed Bloodborne and it was the coolest stuff ever!
Absolutely everything in that video is peak fiction.
Walking into the severed neck stump of a god-whale that transitions from fleshy eye-studded tunnel into a star-studded portal midway is some of the coolest imagery I’ve ever heard of.
as a monster hunter tri fan, i concur
It would have to be another Sekiro-like game because swimming in heavy armor would look pretty ridiculous with some of the armor in ER. Or maybe just go with Bloodborne's "armor".
@@theobell2002 ghost armour
I always look forward to your videos
lovely and informative as always, thanks!
tarnished: goes on a killing spree across the lands between, slaying a god and destroying dragons with a fucking death laser
also tarnished: cant swim
the amount of minute detail you manage to conjure is astounding and im begging for more
It's always neat when actual historical art pokes through in these games
Fantastic as always Zullie!
just too see these creatures in the horizon, breaching the water and such would of been a amazing touch, we dont always have to fight just give us the imagery so we can create our own ideas
Using Windwaker music in a vudeo about the sea in Elden Ring. Lovely, well done.
that fishman just seems like a funny little fella
Zullie, you're too cool. Thanks for the great content
video starts. its about the sea. music starts. big smile on face. already happy. now watch rest of video.
yay you covered the fish! i love him i was hoping youd cover him. :)
Fascinating as always!
Windwaker nostalgia hit so hard I would've watched the whole thing just to listen to the music
It's been said a million times but I love your library of music you cycle through. It's funny how if you made this exact video with an eerie Kings Field song it would have been a totally different video.
The fact that the creature in the thumbnail bears resemblance to Godwyn and also reminds me of the "Lion-Like" boss we saw in the shadow of the erdtree trailer, tells me that maybe a lot more early on in development they were planning for Godwyn to be an actual boss rather than a static object but scrapped it, and decided to use his assets for other things.
Ahhh I love when you use windwaker music, Zullie. My favorite game soundtrack!
footage of elden ring with music from the greatest game of all time
what a COMBO
i love how you used an uplifting background music so people dont shit their pants
Bet Miyazaki wanted a boat for sea exploration and boss fights but then PTSD strikes when he thought about Berserk's Boat Arc incident.
I may have an additional explanation : in a sea you can't swim in, displaying ocean monsters would just be an infuriating unsolvable distraction for players, trying to find ways to reach them.
Seems unlikely it would repel fromsoftware to include such drawings on the map, though,.to spark rumors for years and years of fruitless but dedicated searches.
This just makes that weird rock-whirlpool even more intriguing, since they would have deliberately left it in after removing all the other sea embellishments.
Love the detail of the giant manserpent poking out of the ocean
Thank God for the cheery music, because some of the shots of large things coming out of the water are horrifying
i immediately chuckled at the soundtrack choice
This was very informative. Well put-together. I had genuinely never seen the Star Maiden statue before.
As to the map characters, i
f I may speculate a bit, I had heard from a history major friend when I was at university that the designs on the old maps and charts were largely there as space-filler and flourish, similar to the strange designs the Celtic Illuminators would have drawn in the old gregorian tomes. Just visual spectacle for the eye, and often an opportunity for the artist or chartmaker to show off a bit of their skill, and also justify asking for such sums of money for their work.
In the case of maps, often sea monsters were chosen as alot of the seas had yet to be properly charted by the modern peoples. Beyond the bounds of what we knew was there was merely what we imagined to be there. Titanic beasts of the heretofore unknown and alien depths of the sea and borders of our maps. Kraken, giant whales and squids, even giant crustaceans as you showed in the video.
So it was kind of a combination of the artist adding a bit of flair, and our early imaginations of the sea running wild.
Cheerful happy music over discussions of horror.
Also... no wonder that song sounded familiar. I HAVE heard it before.
Oh Zullie, your videos alwYs bring a big grin to my face
Love the background music!!!
Imagine fighting those octopus things in the water with some very wonky swimming physics
I wish they brought the ability to swim from Sekiro to Elden Ring.
That damn creature in the thumbnail is absolutely terrifying.
I know, right? It looks exactly like #10 from Shadow of The Colossus, AKA Dirge.
@@beholder231297 Oh yeah it does look like it. I need to play Shadow of The Colossus again, that game is awesome.
Well, not only would the monsters not have been literal, the sea itself isn't literal. It's some kind of metaphor for crossing between life and death, or between heaven and hell. Tarnished come from an "other side" that cannot be reached and is beyond the ordering structure that the Golden Order has placed on the Lands Between; on this side are only wrecked ships, rusted anchors, and a flood cave where coffins wash up.
one missed opportunity I think was in the elevator for Castle Morne, if you look down see something bright & glowing only for it to periodically disappear for a second.
if you stood to watch youd realize it wasnt something underneath swimming by since the light would briefly be occluded from 2 sides consistently. the player realizes theres something gargantuan down there looking at you since thats an eye blinking at you
Came here for Elden Ring, left with Dark Souls knowledge. I love this channel.
Such illustrations were common in medieval and renaissance cartography. It was a huge empty space that the cartographer was able to take artistic liberty with because there was nothing to map. I think they were there originally for the same purpose but the designers removed it for a cleaner look.
The tarnished:
slayer of monsters, giants & gods alike.
also tarnished:
instantly drowns in kneehigh water
Man every elden ring discussion video should use this background music. It makes the lands betweend less depressing
Hi Zullie! Interesting video as always : D
Imagine Elden Ring 2 where you can control a ship like in Black Flag
Yes
I'm telling you dude, Fromsoft needs to hop into the pirate genre. Can you imagine like a bloodborne-pirates mashup with skeleton crews and sea monsters, man it would be sick. They could bring back the bloodborne gameplay style with cutlasses and pistols while creating a new IP, best of both worlds
@@buckyhurdle4776 Bootyborne
Thanks for the nightmare inducing last shot
The music: 😇🏖🏝🌬🌊🧝
The video: *_eldritch horrors beyond our comprehension_*
0:49 it’s also worth noting those boats on the map aren’t fully decorative- they represent actual shipwrecks that are visible from the coast in Radahn’s arena and from the cliffs east of Beast Clergyman’s temple.
Keep it up Zullie ur doing amazing! :)
After seeing the size of those lobsters, I'm staying on shore
2:25 well thanks to you and your video, I have a new favorite statue. Thanks. :)
Only Zullie video that I could’ve done without watching. It’s a good hit rate.
They say there are plenty of fish in the sea, relating to a partner, however the seas being empty in Elden Ring only prove... that you are indeed maidenless
I like how one of the only shipwrecks is off the coast of Radahn’s arena. Makes me think he shot them down himself
Can you imagine how freaky a sight it would be in the DLC "shadow realm" you look off into the distant sea and every so often some massive "Umibozu" looking shape rises up and bobs about before descending back into the sea?
if i had to guess i'd say they originally planned to have us either explore the sea or fight some big sea monsters on the coast, but it got cut due to time restraints. miyazaki has been pretty clear in interviews that they were aware their ideas for the game were way too big to fit it all in, and i can imagine a high fantasy game focused on exploration would want to make the sea full of monsters. the variety of sea themed enemies we find were probably designed for the coast or sea areas originally
I fucking love the music choice to Elden Ring footage/lore lol
Maybe the sea is the friendship that we made all along...
Caught a fresh Zullie video published 15 minutes ago? Right on.
When I saw the thumbnail I thought that the creepy human-faced fish may have eaten all other sea creatures.
There is some true existential horror connected to the very phrase “The sea is empty”…