I am currently turning down most of my jobs due to health issues, but I did do a tailstock and turret alignment on a Genos L300M last week. The first thing to do is make sure a spindle is straight. To do that you cut a diameter about 8 inches long, then check for taper with a micrometer. They diameters on both ends should be the same. Do that on the main and sub-spindles. If they are both straight you can chuck up a gage pin in the sub-spindle making sure there is zero run-out. Then tram that gage pin using a co-axial indicator in the main spindle. Another test would be to use the same tool and cut the same diameter on a part in both spindles and check the diameters with a micrometer. They will be the same if the spindles are aligned correctly. Those are two different different ways to check the alignment without using test bars. It is always easiest to install a test bar with the same diameter in both spindles and check both with a mag base and indicator mounted on the turret while moving z-axis. This will check spindle straightness and alignment, but you need to make sure the test bars have zero run-out. You can split the run-out in half at the indicating point if there is run-out. There are always two planes that will be straight on a test bar or cylinder square if there is run-out. Email me if you do not understand that and I will call you. It's hard to explain in a message. If I do another alignment I will try to do a video.
So it looks like the live tool drive only engages a single live tool at a time (makes sense for a lot of reasons.) But I couldn't see how the drive engages the tool. I have a DMG Mori 60mm spindle that has a 25mm drive shaft that terminates in a flat section. How does the drive properly clock itself to engage that flat as the turret rotates the tool into position? I know you are working when you film this stuff, but it is some of the least documented arcana out there, and would love a deep dive into how an active tool turret works.
Hi Jason. This setup sounds similar to the DMG. The live tool holders are driven and oriented by a 10mm thick flat on the end of the round shaft. The holders are oriented by a flat surface inside the turret that they ride against as the turret rotates.The live tool drive is a round shaft with a groove in the center to accept the flat on the end of the live tool shaft. The drive is oriented by a servo motor with an absolute encoder. This turret has two motors, one for the turret index and one for the live tool.
@@OtherBrotherDarylSmith Got it. The flat surface keeps the shank properly oriented and the rotation locked when not engaged with the drive. Clever. I expected that the servo drive would use some kind of split fork, just astonished that such a simple connection can run at 10k+ RPM with a ton of load. I suspected it might be some sort of complex flex sleeve that dealt with any misalignment, but these things are pretty precise so I guess it just works. Thanks for the insight!
@@Bakafish I did a video on a Daewoo Puma a few months ago that uses a cam on the rear part of the live tool drive shaft with an air cylinder mounted to the housing that has proximity position switches on the cylinder to verify that the live tool drive is aligned properly. The cam has 2 areas for a roller on the end of the air cylinder to drop into. If the right switch isn't made the turret will not index. That is a great design. The rest of the drive system is basically like the Okuma.
It's probably an Okuma MC-5VA, not an MX 5VA, and one of the best mills Okuma made. The overload will take a while to cool down. Let it set for a while, then find which overload is tripped and try to push the small reset button. If you have an amp meter, check to see how much current the motor is drawing. Also, unhook all 3 power leads to the motor and use a megohmmeter and check the winding insulation of the motor. Also, change your hydraulic oil and filters at least once a year. Most machines of that era still have the original hydraulic oil in the reservoir. Preventive maintenance is so your machine will not be down when you need it most.
@@OtherBrotherDarylSmith thanks smith yes it is mc5va , we have pushed it but still problem is there it is from last 3 days . my motor contactor in back side mac unit is not even moving . i have checked all continuity ,even separately check contactor outside,it is fine. showing error 112 always. .in india okuma is very less popular machine so no support is available. we have all the drawings. one blown fuse in cpu card we found and replaced it ,but still problem is there . please help
@aniveshchaturvedi9886 Where do you see the alarm 112? Is the overload even tripped? There might be something else causing the machine to not come out of E-stop. If you go into manual mode, hit the F8 button labeled "Extend", then hit the F5 button "DIAGNOSIS". What do you see on that screen?
😂 i don't get how people can screw up a cnc machine. You set zero and hit run. Programs you use make it idiot proof these days. 30 years ago this may of been an issue
I don't get it either. This happened when they were setting up the tools. They ran the tool into the sub-spindle. I see a lot of bad stuff when a tool gets dull and rips the part out of the chuck. Those are usually pretty bad if they are not cutting down against the ways. Many operators cut up against the keeper plates instead of against the base. "That's how we have always done it."
@@OtherBrotherDarylSmith just sounds honestly like incorrectly set up tool lol. But again. Newer machines check that even. This is the reason we tossed all college degree applications in garbage and only hired the ones with trade school or apprenticeships lol so this kind of thing was avoided 🤣👍
@@iNullias Double check is right! That's why I always use the feed rate switch and watch the "distance to go" after making any program changes. I also turn the rapid feedrate down as well. Don't rush it.
@@BuildBreakFix I just finished aligning and older Crown turret today. I think he bought it new, but somehow put in a bad offset. Yesterday I had another turret alignment on an Okuma LB4000 that had the y-axis knocked out as well as the turret. The y-axis pivots on a center pin on the x-axis, then the turret has a center pin and pivots on the y-axis. I have had to do many y-axis alignments on the LB3000 and LB4000 Okumas.
Thanks for sharing, have a great rest of the week. Charles
Any chance you could make one of these showing us the proper method for aligning the sub spindle to the main?
I am currently turning down most of my jobs due to health issues, but I did do a tailstock and turret alignment on a Genos L300M last week.
The first thing to do is make sure a spindle is straight. To do that you cut a diameter about 8 inches long, then check for taper with a micrometer. They diameters on both ends should be the same. Do that on the main and sub-spindles. If they are both straight you can chuck up a gage pin in the sub-spindle making sure there is zero run-out. Then tram that gage pin using a co-axial indicator in the main spindle.
Another test would be to use the same tool and cut the same diameter on a part in both spindles and check the diameters with a micrometer. They will be the same if the spindles are aligned correctly.
Those are two different different ways to check the alignment without using test bars. It is always easiest to install a test bar with the same diameter in both spindles and check both with a mag base and indicator mounted on the turret while moving z-axis. This will check spindle straightness and alignment, but you need to make sure the test bars have zero run-out. You can split the run-out in half at the indicating point if there is run-out. There are always two planes that will be straight on a test bar or cylinder square if there is run-out. Email me if you do not understand that and I will call you. It's hard to explain in a message.
If I do another alignment I will try to do a video.
How long did it take to line up?
It took about 5 hours, but then they asked me to work on a Haas VF2. I love when that happens.😁
So it looks like the live tool drive only engages a single live tool at a time (makes sense for a lot of reasons.) But I couldn't see how the drive engages the tool. I have a DMG Mori 60mm spindle that has a 25mm drive shaft that terminates in a flat section. How does the drive properly clock itself to engage that flat as the turret rotates the tool into position? I know you are working when you film this stuff, but it is some of the least documented arcana out there, and would love a deep dive into how an active tool turret works.
Hi Jason. This setup sounds similar to the DMG. The live tool holders are driven and oriented by a 10mm thick flat on the end of the round shaft. The holders are oriented by a flat surface inside the turret that they ride against as the turret rotates.The live tool drive is a round shaft with a groove in the center to accept the flat on the end of the live tool shaft. The drive is oriented by a servo motor with an absolute encoder. This turret has two motors, one for the turret index and one for the live tool.
@@OtherBrotherDarylSmith Got it. The flat surface keeps the shank properly oriented and the rotation locked when not engaged with the drive. Clever. I expected that the servo drive would use some kind of split fork, just astonished that such a simple connection can run at 10k+ RPM with a ton of load. I suspected it might be some sort of complex flex sleeve that dealt with any misalignment, but these things are pretty precise so I guess it just works. Thanks for the insight!
@@Bakafish I did a video on a Daewoo Puma a few months ago that uses a cam on the rear part of the live tool drive shaft with an air cylinder mounted to the housing that has proximity position switches on the cylinder to verify that the live tool drive is aligned properly. The cam has 2 areas for a roller on the end of the air cylinder to drop into. If the right switch isn't made the turret will not index. That is a great design. The rest of the drive system is basically like the Okuma.
My okuma mx 5va showing hydraulik motor load over alarm.
Please guide
It's probably an Okuma MC-5VA, not an MX 5VA, and one of the best mills Okuma made. The overload will take a while to cool down. Let it set for a while, then find which overload is tripped and try to push the small reset button. If you have an amp meter, check to see how much current the motor is drawing. Also, unhook all 3 power leads to the motor and use a megohmmeter and check the winding insulation of the motor. Also, change your hydraulic oil and filters at least once a year. Most machines of that era still have the original hydraulic oil in the reservoir. Preventive maintenance is so your machine will not be down when you need it most.
@@OtherBrotherDarylSmith thanks smith yes it is mc5va , we have pushed it but still problem is there it is from last 3 days . my motor contactor in back side mac unit is not even moving . i have checked all continuity ,even separately check contactor outside,it is fine. showing error 112 always. .in india okuma is very less popular machine so no support is available. we have all the drawings. one blown fuse in cpu card we found and replaced it ,but still problem is there . please help
if you can give us mail then i will drop problem photo to also
@aniveshchaturvedi9886 Where do you see the alarm 112? Is the overload even tripped? There might be something else causing the machine to not come out of E-stop. If you go into manual mode, hit the F8 button labeled "Extend", then hit the F5 button "DIAGNOSIS". What do you see on that screen?
@@OtherBrotherDarylSmith sure Smith I will do and share you tomorrow.
😂 i don't get how people can screw up a cnc machine. You set zero and hit run. Programs you use make it idiot proof these days. 30 years ago this may of been an issue
I don't get it either. This happened when they were setting up the tools. They ran the tool into the sub-spindle. I see a lot of bad stuff when a tool gets dull and rips the part out of the chuck. Those are usually pretty bad if they are not cutting down against the ways. Many operators cut up against the keeper plates instead of against the base. "That's how we have always done it."
@@OtherBrotherDarylSmith just sounds honestly like incorrectly set up tool lol. But again. Newer machines check that even. This is the reason we tossed all college degree applications in garbage and only hired the ones with trade school or apprenticeships lol so this kind of thing was avoided 🤣👍
@@iNullias Double check is right! That's why I always use the feed rate switch and watch the "distance to go" after making any program changes. I also turn the rapid feedrate down as well. Don't rush it.
@@OtherBrotherDarylSmith that is the perfect thing to say in nut shell. "Don't rush it"
@@BuildBreakFix I just finished aligning and older Crown turret today. I think he bought it new, but somehow put in a bad offset. Yesterday I had another turret alignment on an Okuma LB4000 that had the y-axis knocked out as well as the turret. The y-axis pivots on a center pin on the x-axis, then the turret has a center pin and pivots on the y-axis. I have had to do many y-axis alignments on the LB3000 and LB4000 Okumas.