Italy's Worst Machine Gun: The Breda Modello 30
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2024
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The Breda Model 30 was the standard Italian light machine gun of World War II, and is a serious contender for “worst machine gun ever”. Yes, given the choice we would prefer to have a Chauchat (which really wasn’t as bad as people today generally think).
The Breda 30 suffered from all manner of problems. To begin with, it was far more complicated than necessary. The amount of machining needed to build one is mind boggling compared to contemporary guns like the ZB26/Bren or BAR. And for all that work, it just didn’t work well in combat conditions.
Mechanically, the Breda used a short recoil action with a rotating bolt The recoil action meant that the barrel moved with each shot, so the sights were mounted on the receiver to keep them fixed. This seems like a good idea, but it meant that the sights would need to be re-zeroed each time the barrel was changed. To compound this, the gun fired from a closed bolt which made it more susceptible to overheating and it was recommended to change barrels every 200 rounds or so. An oiling mechanism was built in to lightly oil each cartridge on feeding. This allowed the gun to extract without ripping rims off the cases, but was a disaster waiting to happen on the battlefield. In places like North Africa, the oil acted as a magnet for sand and dust, leading to quick jamming if the gun were not kept scrupulously clean.
The next huge judgment error on Breda’s part was the magazine. The thought behind it was that magazine feed lips are easily damaged in the field, and they can be protected by building them into the gun receiver rather than in each cheap disposable box magazine (the Johnson LMG and Madsen LMG recognized this issue as well). However, Breda’s solution was to make the 20-round magazine a permanent part of the gun. The magazine was attached to the receiver by a hinge pin, and was reloaded by special 20-round stripper clips. This meant that reloading took significantly longer than changing magazines, and any damage to the one attached magazine would render the gun inoperable. As if anything else were needed, the magazine was made with a big opening on top to allow the gunner to see how many rounds remained - and to let more of that North African sand into the action.
Most of the Breda Model 30s were made in 6.5 Carcano, but a small number were made in 7.35 Carcano when that cartridge was adopted. The rate of fire was about 500 rounds per minute, which was a bit slower than most other machine guns of the day.
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I guess this was the MG my grandfather was issued with during WWII. He was an MG operator on the French border at the beginning of war (didn't see action, cause they were sent to conquer a French fortification but found that already abandoned). He told me he won a bunch of prizes on competitions on the shooting range, on 2-shots and 5-shots bursts. I asked him "so, this means you were really accurate?"
His answer: "it means I could fire the damn thing without jamming it".
Original content award to this comment (nonfiction)
@@greatname9814 As you can see, I'm a real person with a real name. I was given the same name my grandfather had, and I'm proud of bearing it. He told me what I wrote above, and I have no doubt he told me the truth. He was a humble, nice, honest man which never lied or exaggerated. Implying he lied (or I lied) is offensive, and also based on... what?
Let me ask one question: are you even a real person, "Great Name"?
@St. Petersberg It doesn't. But at the very least appearing here with one's own name makes me consider that person more reliable than, for example, someone using a city's name instead of his/her own.
Mi dici la frase in versione originale?
@St. Petersberg bud unless you have first hand experience handling this firearm and proof stop pretending your word is anymore reputable than his
Plot twist: the ammunition does not have any gunpowder but the bullets are just spring loaded.
this is actually plausible
That would be environmentally friendly ! :)
Joni Dude, add spring loaded bullets and this will be straight some clockpunk gun.
You would save weight on the ammunition and don't give away your position due to muzzle flashes.
Reminds me of the turret commercial for Portal 2.
With all those springs, there must be a button that launches the barrel as a dart
It would still be more effective than the actual thing
attach a rifle grenade to it and you got yourself a Piat
@@goldenpun5592 clever, very clever
The italians did use this gun as pogo sticks to quickly jump away from the actual combat
@@goldenpun5592 The first time I saw an internal cross section of a Piat it blew my mind...
When they want you to design a machine gun and you have a controlling stake in the Italian spring industry.
This comment is great
underrated comment
I like how that word "spring" made everyone make a funny noise.
"I want 70% more spring in gun! "
"Had trouble in dusty conditions..."
"Let's invade North Africa!"
There was worse.
Tactical and Technical Trends (the magazine of US intelligence), No. 7, Sept. 10, 1942. "use of captured Italian weapons". "The Breda light machine gun is similar to the British Bren gun. It is mechanically superior to the Bren gun under dusty conditions. It requires only one man to service it as compared to several for the Bren gun. It has a slightly higher rate of fire than the British weapon. Its disadvantages are that it has no carrying handle, cannot be fired on fixed lines, and has no tripod mounting."
The British Long Range Desert Group notoriously preferred to use the Lewis Gun to the Bren exactly because it was deemed to be more reliable in dusty conditions (and the Lewis Gun in general was not known to be that tolerant of dirt).
You know you fucked something up when you make a gun that breaks in the conditions guns are commonly exposed to
Parts of Italy are pretty dusty in the summer as well....
@@Dedfaction so why the hell is it not good in dusty conditions?
@@Dedfaction no?
I can't believe they missed the opportunity to add a few more springs when they designed the bipod.
underrated comment!
But still better bipod than BAR.
They just had run out of springs by the moment they started to design the bipod
@@user-jk2oz6xz4d LOL
But they took a moment to consider glare in the sight picture - im so glad they thought to make it easier to use.
Hallo...
My grandfather he used the Breda 30 machine gun during his military service. during the Second World War he was a simple soldier in a coastal infantry department in the city of Falconara Marittima, on the Adriatic coast, a few kilometers from Ancona.He told me that he never managed to shoot more than 10 shots consecutively because the sand carried by the wind blocked the firing mechanism.
he also called Breda 30 with the nickname "La Giuda" (translatable in English as "she Judas") or "la maledetta troia" (Seems likes "The cursed bitch") ...
he was lucky not to have had to use it in action ...
Please forgive me for my Bad english.
Beautiful story, and very well written! Thank you for sharing👍🤘🤘🤘
Your English is great.
She Judas is the perfect nickname for this thing imma remember that
Bad English, great story!
No problem with your English. Thank you for the comment.
When the stripper clip is as big as a magazine, They might of well have made it use magazines.
That's what I wonder. Why not simply use box magazines? Just with the metal of a single clip and extra levers you can make at least one
And then you could pretty easily remove the 'fixed' magazine anyway, it's such a baffling design choice.
@@rodrigogascagomez5190 I bet you it has a cooling issue and the only way to stop it from overheating was to introduce an artificial restrictor to the rate of fire. That or the designer hated Mussolini or was his nephew or something.
WW2-era Italy had a pretty poor industrialbase compared to their allies. They probably couldn't afford to make reliable, disposable magazines on this scale.
One of their other machine guns fed from a magazine-esque cassette tray, because they wanted to recycle spent shells. That's how bad things were for them.
Maybe intentional sabatoge
France: you know, the Chauchat isn't really that bad
Italy: hold my wine
LOL
Britain: Fuck that; hold my beer. I'm gonna do this in bullpup.
"Hold-a my spaghetti"
The Chauchat is worse than this gun. Yes, it is that bad.
The American Chauchat, maybe. The French one Ian played with a while back wasn't that bad.
German: Hold my Lederhosen those boys have Never Seen a true lmg (gets out his 08/15)
Ian has more hats than a TF2 character
Yep, they're pretty unusual too lol
Graphic What you didn't realize that the majority of hats in TF2 is actually modeled from Ian's real life hat collection.
Ian IS the spy. He wears a mask to hide his youtuber identity .
its a lot of hats then
Ian is actually the 10th Class.
The hell is it with so many MGs from this time being like "Ah yes, support weapon. Give it like 4 round capacity and full auto capability." it's like they thought ammunition was an accessory that was nice to have.
Ammunitions needed to be carried before being fired. BREN instructions indicated an ideal ROF during battles of a magazine (of 30 theoric rounds, and 27 practical ones) a minute, and an emergency ROF of 4 magazines a minute (alerting that, at that rate, the barrel had to be changed every 10 magazines, and the entire provision of the squad was of 20 magazines, so 5 minutes of fire).
Also belt-fed LMGs were impractical in real life scenarios (and still are today, that's why the Marines are phasing the SAW out). To change a belt requires more time than to change several magazines, and it jams easier, and it requires more time to clear jammings.
@@neutronalchemist3241 actual marines are dreading the loss of the SAW. its actually rather handy and the large belt is really appreciated.
@@theguy9208 The Marines chose to replace it, none forced them, and they did it because a belt-fed MG manned by a single man proved to be impractical in a real-life scenario.
@@neutronalchemist3241 Or internal politics. Countless armies throughout history have been saddled with kit the basic trooper really didn't like because someone higher up the chain was pushing it.
@@neutronalchemist3241 The mg34 and later 42 were some of the most effective machine guns of the war. in fact the 42 was good enough its still used as the mg3(just a 7.62 mg42)
I'm surprised that the inventor wasn't tried for treason over this thing.
I'm uncertain between "secret member of the resistance" and "bribed by the spring factory board"...
LOL was a great comment LOL!! Too true!
- and me thinking WW l French Shosher was bad!
That isn't the real problem, this thing won in trials against another mg by another italian arsenal and against the zb26( the bren's grandpa), which today is considered to be the best prewar lmg
@@fortunatoazzara maybe It was the corruption on the army, u only need to look the case of the italian tanks, absolutely thrash
when a gun requires 4 levers on magazine alone, you can already see the problem.
No shit what were they thinking
@LOAN NGUYEN However, their industrial capacity for spring production was clearly off the charts.
@LOAN NGUYEN But this just seems overly complex. They literally went back to WW1 machines because of it. Why didn't they just make a design that uses stripper clips or something?
@LOAN NGUYEN Oh deus I heard of that machine gun and the recycling aspect. I was just thinking of something with a internal magazine. And like most rifles of the time the user would just insert a clip down when reloading. They really were under budget.
@LOAN NGUYEN Like Japan really but somehow worse.
I actually really like that side swinging magazine. Not for a practical reason, it's just neat.
It looks bloody cool, no matter how useless it actually is
I think the whole gun is neat just because something sucks doesn’t mean it can’t be cool
This thing looks like it would have been stupidly expensive to manufacture
My grandfather used to be in the Yugoslav Parisan. He used to say that when they heard a machinegun fire fast bursts, they knew they were fighting Germans, if they heard a slow pop, pop, pop, they were fighting Italians. The Partisans captured a few of those, they made use of them because any machinegun is better then no machinegun. But they much prefered German MG-34s and later on, the Brens that they got from the British via supply drops.
Tako je druze.
they love their olive oil so much, they even put it on their machine guns.
Yeah. Doesn't work, but man, the TASTE of those bullets...
@@mariosebastiani3214 "eat lead" gets a whole new meaning!
@@mariosebastiani3214 Now I understand why so many "allies" took our lead, my grandfather fought enemy positions in france and returned, the best strategy was behind a wall to take rifles out pointing toward the enemy, shoot and reload, same with mg, sooner or later when the enemy turned silent they went inside the enemy position to find them all dead, go forward and repeat, slowly but surely
😄
For us Olive oil is a lifestyle
Wow. Ian said, "I don't know what this does." That doesn't happen very often.
by ramping 1 or more of the lugs it could be headspace ajustment
@@popuptarget7386 No problem necroing on CZcams.
Not even the Italians knew what that does.
@@AndrewVasirov Not sure even Breda did.
@@francisscott1233 nope it's simply a ejector director
I'm just gonna go ahead and assume the designer of this weapon was the majority shareholder of a spring factory
This gun would make a perfect Light machine gun for the Elbonian army.
Long live albonia.
They adopted it for their Navy in .32 ACP
Better yet 50 bmg
I can only imagine what that would look like
Any chance of a more complicated magazine with Five springs
I want to to say we should get Brandon herra(aka) the AK guy to build one in 50bmg but I don’t think that’s gonna happen
So in the event you come under attack while you have the rifle disassembled, you can just shoot the firing pin at them. A clever design feature.
TheLastPariah89
LyingPrauses
atatopatato
Crosshair
Alexander Thomas
This gun has by far the most unmotivated firing pin I've ever seen.
It's pretty damn big with a long way to travel, that spring has a big job for its size. I could see it wearing out pretty quickly. It really is a little(?) dart gun.
Daniel Butka right, in practice it works the same way
firing pin got depression
The heavier the firing pin, the easier for it to activate the primer.
The long travel and the fact that it can't sart moving until the bolt is in battery is meant to slow the ROF too.
Force = Mass x Acceleration, I bet it's because of that big heavy pin. That pin probably doesnt need to be moving that fast, after it's started weight and momentum do the work.
"Sorry, this way" I can only imagine how many times this happened on the field.
Kinda surprised that the h-block retaining pin wasn’t spring loaded.
Also, regarding the H block:
the backward position is the "massimo bloccaggio" (maximum locking) setting and should be set this way when using a new barrel. On the forward position, is the "minimo bloccaggio" (minimum locking) setting, to be used with a worn barrel
Erpoggio you're right.
Thus effectively changing the headspace?
I don't know exactly. I got the info from an original manual for the gun, but it just explains what the piece does and not how :(
wow! what is the rationale for incorporating that mechanism?
yea after reading you commant and looking at the h- block it makes sense!
The stepped piece stops the trevel of the locking nut, in the two positions it protrude a little more or less.
My grandpa, an italian army infantry nco, hated this LMG with deep passion. He served in Italian East Africa and North Africa between the late 1930s and early 1940s. He always said Breda 30 was good only for the shooting range: accurate, but overcomplicated and unreliable in real combat conditions. Not surprisingly, most of the feedbacks from the frontline were negative or poor. Great vid though.. and the Alpini troops hat was the icing on the cake :-) You're the coolest, Ian. ~Aleks
bruh
Late 30's - early 40's means he was still part of the Royal Italian Army, which fought on the side of the Axis. It wasn't until 1943 until it became just the Italian Army and fought with the Allies.
Youth it's the same army the only difference was the post43army didn't have to cart the black shirts around every time they moved!
The italian forces were thrown into a war they never asked for, by a government they didn't like, using poorly distributed and in some cases poorly designed equipment, yet they are considered cowards. Give them credit, they at least tried using what they had, and only turned on Germany when they were given the chance to do so. Italy switched to the allies after the downfall of the Fascist government they had, which was in 1943 might I add. Had it not been for Germany at the time, the soldiers would've turned the tables even sooner than they did. The pride they retained for the war withered away not long after the US declared war on them, (to my understanding). A lot of this is just speculation since moral wasn't exactly top notch, and why would it be when you're given shit to work with by a group of people you didn't choose to control you? Hell, the Austro-Hungarian army had higher hopes in WW1 than the Italians did during WW2.
@Youth: Yes, Regio Esercito Italiano. After the winter of 1942 the North Africa campaign was basically over for the Italian forces. My grandpa was captured by a british armored unit. Then he was sent to a huge POW camp in Zonderwater (South Africa) where he remained until the spring 1945, when he finally returned to Italy. ~Aleks
@Brian South: thanks for the kind words. He passed away 28 years ago, but i still miss him. He left us with good memories... and a lot of war stories! :-) ~Aleks
6:50 "If you want to unload this when you do not have it empty, you open this (magazine) up, and you open the bolt, and then you make sure that there are four loose rounds that you have to account for that would be floating this...area between the magazine follower--cartridge stop catch and the bolt itself."
Loose, 'floating' rounds as a standard expected product of a mid-magazine reload. I think I heard a firearm design draftsman screeching in the middle distance.
It's interesting that Allied reports on the use of captured weapons, and instruction manuals written for the Allied gunners issued with the captured Breda 30 don't mention the reloading system to be an issue AT ALL.
All those are modern day armchair considerations.
This thing has so much oil no wonder the Americans eventually got into the war.
Underrated comment
Hahahahabq
I realize it’s a joke, but The United States was the largest global exporter of oil during the Breda’s service life. That changed in 1956, when vast quantities of crude were discovered in Saudi Arabia.
@@Enraged-Gecko us was concerned that the Italians might take over XD
You use the excess for your emergency mozzarella ration
My experience with Italian machinery is that it is either wonderful or abysmal with little middle ground. Even the crap though is many times, but not all, quite nicely made crap. More than once I've found myself saying "it's crap but it's apparent someone took pride in building it."
The Alfa Romeo motor company really fits this bill pretty well. It's very evident with some of their vehicles that somebody put a LOT of effort into making sure it looks beautiful and works brilliantly, under very, very specific conditions, on the third Tuesday of the second month after a blue moon, with new oil. Sometimes. There's a lot of care and attention, time and effort, but the end result is still pretty dubious when compared to most contemporaries.
I've always believed that the Italians care more about what something looks like and how well it's made then wether or not it actually does it's job.
@@crigby46 Yeah the Alfa after FIAT bought it and before it released the new Giulia pretty much.
@@highflyinryan76weezer25 Sometimes--
HighFlyinRyan76 Weezer if it looks cool, and you somewhat make it functional, then it’s usable.
Just in case nobody has said it before:
Chiuso - closed
Aperto - open
@@ivangarcia1327 That doesn't mean anything.
@@ivangarcia1327 You just said a very not good rifle.
Imagine all of that brilliant design work and fantastic machining, and the gun is a turd, and not even a fast turd - it's a 120 rounds per minute turd.
I read an account by a British officer who organised an irregular force in North Africa. He was given some of these that had been captured. He said that they ALWAYS jammed after a few bursts. They were useless for combat. Breda also made a 20mm cannon which was very well liked and preferred to the Allied 20 mm cannon.
The allies had two main 20mm cannons, the Oerlikon (used on ground or naval mountings) and the Hispano (used on aircraft) I'm guessing the Breda was a rival for the former.
@@nerd1000ify It was the Breda Model 35, which was used as an AA gun - the LRDG press-ganged them into service as anti-vehicle guns, and the Allies had so many they issued them to some AA units as standard equipment.
The old engineering motto
"If it looks right,it usually is right"
Comes to mind.This thing just doesn't look right.
Yeah thIs gun really does look ugly
it looks so far away from right it went full circle and started looking left
i can hear the italian dudes in the field: "I reassembled the gun but have a spring left, get an engineer!"
You'd think at some point that, if the Magazine is itself removable, some intrepid gunner would have thought "why not just carry a bunch of pre-loaded Magazines instead of this stupid levering-open-box nonsense?"
I love how easy it is to just take off the whole magazine while the actual reloading operation is like 30 more steps
The markings stand for "Fucile Mitragliatore Modello 30"
and I believe (might be wrong) the "A. XX" stands for "Anno 20" or Year 20 which should be 20th year of the fascist regime so 1942
You're right.
Goofy Nose yup, also an iteresting fact is that there is a crown marking on the right, and i'm not sure about it, but it might have to do with the italian monarchy, which was still tecnically in power during the regime, and was brought down in '46 by the Referendum, Italy became a Republic and the royal family was exiled for treason of the country
You're right. Even the italian flag changed from having the Savoia royal symbol on its banner to the one without banner everybody knows today. Mussolini considered himself (liked to be considered as) king's "Dux Bellorum", this is the reason why he was called ""Duce". In the real world, though, the king had very little power, this is true for its sustitute (the president) in modern republican Italy, who is a kind of useless person.
Jo Ro correct. The crown was the Italian Royal Army crest and if you have noticed you can see also the letters RE which stand for REGIO ESERCITO (Royal Army).
DoppiaVùDoppiaEsse 80 so thats was what it was! I had misread it as an R and a cross (maybe savoia) i actually got curious and consulted a chart, according to which the year marking is also quite singular as it would actually mean it's from 1963 (impossible) as it would need to be accompanied by the julian calendar year. But I suppose these incongruences make stuff only the more interesting. (Mi sento di barare un po' comunque essendo italiano lol)
According to an older gentleman who spent some time in Tobruk in 1941, and with whom I had an interesting conversation some years ago, the reason Breda didn't try to get involved in the fast-growing automotive industry after the war (despite having the facilities and, after acquiring Isotta Fraschini in the 50s, the necessary technological know-how) is that "no sane war veteran who had any experience with the Modello 30 would've spent, or let someone they knew, spend a _lira_ on a Breda product".
While I think it's far more likely that the economic woes of the company and the desire to avoid antagonizing Fiat were the decisive factors, I liked his story better. And to think that we Italians often pride ourselves in the simplicity of our engineering...
Yep and fiat's deal with the communist party and the Soviets guaranteed that the deck was stacked against them from the start!
Ahahah vero!
Breda Ba.88 Lince: worst WWII plane
Breda mod. 30: worst WWII machinegun
I believe you
But they went on to make some nice shotguns.
Breda made the worst military equipment of the war... in a war with german last ditch guns, stalingrad production ppsh's, and the sten.
That's an achievement.
12:30 somewhere in WW2 an OSS engineer saw this and started their entire fetish for shoulder fired dart guns for sneaky shenanigans
“Mit.Mod.30” stands for “Mitragliatrice Modello 30” which translates to “Machinegun model 30”
Saves for weeks to get a decent Alpini cap... goes online to find the seller was sold out... the next day I see Ian with the same model.... damn you Ian...
Vincent Cross I’ve got a feeling he just bought all that your seller had XD
In Italy Alpini's cap is like a symbol, something different, like the Folgore's basque. They're like national heroes, since they usually help us even if some kind of accident comes down through the mountains, or even in critical situations like the earthquake of Aquila in 2009 and some recent snow emergencies. Check this gallery to see what the Alpini have done for my country! Their unity is celebrated every year with a "Raduno" and they're having one in Milan in those days, this morning I've seen 6 old men, wearing that cap and walking through the streets heading to this Raduno, they seemed teenagers to me, forever ready to be thrown where the country needs. www.repubblica.it/cronaca/2015/05/14/foto/l_aquila_gli_alpini_ci_sono_sempre_la_mostra_fotografica_celebra_il_coraggio_delle_penne_nere_-114332510/1/#19
@@alessioprincipe2304 thank you Alessio. That is good information.
I thought Ian looked pretty neat in that hat. However, it is good to know that there is a meaning to the hat. Peace to you, Sir.
@@ralph40 that hat has a lot of meaning in Italy. Alpini are Italian mountain troops, they fought on the Alpes during WWI against Austrians, then in WWII they fought in Greece, while the Italian army didn't defeated the Greek army, the Aplini divisions gained the respect of the Greeks. In Russia Italian army held the front on the Don river, when Soviets stormed in and surronded the Italian army (as well as a German armata and the Romanian army), three Alpini divisions succeded to break throught the encirclement, losing many men in the process. Soviets later recognized the courage of Alpini.
In our days Alpini are no more a simple part of the army. Italy has a long history of earthquakes, floodings and any catastrophes, and every time something happens, Alpini comes and helps, as Alessio said. In North Italy in particular in every town, even very little ones, there at least a monument, or a sign of their presence.
Alpini are generally loved and are not seens as soldiers. As Alessio said they have a national gathering (known as "Adunata") located in one town that changes every year. It's an event that is very felt, for instance, in 2013 the Adunata took place in the town of Piacenza, there were 400,000 Alpini in a town of 100,000 inhabitants.
@@Eurodance_Groove leggi gli altri commenti, non mi pare proprio che spalino merda
An oiler! On an LMG, in 1930!
10 years after WW1. 10 years after Italy saw first hand the mud, dirt, and debris of modern war. 10 years after obsolete designs had proved the shortcomings of internal oilers. I can't fathom how this passed a single military trial, as that alone is all a reasonable officer should need to turn it away. Let this be a lesson--Just because you have an abundance of olive oil does not mean you can find a military use for it!
"A gun! A gun! My empire for a gun!", cried many an Italian soldier, I'm sure.
Every Hispano-Suiza HS.404, and derivates (included the 20 mm Mark 16 that's still in service) had his cartridges oiled. So did the Japanese Type 96 LMG. An oiler is not the end of the world. Is a charateristic. The resistance of the weapon to dirt is made of MANY charateristics.
An oiler! An oiler! My life for an oiler!
Italy fought in the Alps. 12 rounds with Austria in the Isonzo. It wasn't quite the Western Front.
Not to mention stripper clip loaded when the first military lmgs in WW1 all had detachable magazines. Even the MG08-15!
Corruption probably. Bribes
16:55
"I see you have constructed your own Light Saber..."
Breda: You know that one gun that the Americans had that was too heavy to be a battle rifle, but didn't carry enough ammo to be an lmg?
Benito: Yeah
Breda: *Well let me introduce my latest design*
The BAR was not a good LMG due to the pencil barrel without quick exchange and bottom placed magazine. Not the number of rounds.
@@neutronalchemist3241 That goes hand in hand. With a more accessable, bigger magazine the barrel wouldnt have endure it long. With a stronger, exchangable barrel the magazine would still have limited you. As I see it you both are right.
@Ced von Noish As I see it if your weapon doesnt fit its role you can replace it with a more suitable one or make it appropiate. Either is fine.
Well The gun wasen't made with explicit BAR influence, Instead it was an Evolution of the previos machine gun, Italy after ww1 knew the Military had problerms and most of the guns where made with intentions of fighting on home turf, the earlier machine gun was very much am MMG or even HMG soo they learnt from this and went the exact opposite direction and made it as light as possible.
Another thing to consider is that this was ment to be used as an Machine Gun, not an Assault Rifle or SMG becose the Intalian Army already had Assault Rifles like the Armaguerra line or SMG like the Beretta line of SMG.
@@ALE199-ita And Im sure in the end this weapon improved the firepower of their squads significantly no matter how bad it was.
Italian Military: We need a cheap, simple and effective man-portable machine gun.
Breda: Say no more!
Italian Military: *sigh*
Italian Military: How do you load this thing anyway?
Breda: Yes
Its like the worst side of typical italian and german design combined
Breda: "No, no. I hear you loud and clear."
Average soldati: "Oh, _cazzo..._ "
I mean, if you had to choose the Older Fiat Machinegun which was very very heavy machine gun of ww1 and that, you would chose the Breds
I've had lego sets with less pieces xD
I've had lego sets that form a more reliable LSW than this thing.
PeachyPixel8 I've had motorcycles with fewer parts.
It's like they made a gun out of "Mouse Trap" board game pieces.
I guess it's a good thing it has a separate oil tank so you can put regular ammo in the mag instead of bringing your own 2% oil/ammo mixture....
i've always preferred two-stroke MGs, myself
"It is said that the French copy no one, and no one copies the French."
Some Italian guy: hold my vino, por favore.
* per favore
Por is spanish
at least if you want to make a joke use proper Italian lmao
@@pietromeroni2023 nobody really cares about Italy enough to use proper Italian
@@pietromeroni2023 well at least he tried
@@pietromeroni2023 What if not using proper italian is part of the joke...
After watching Forgotten weapons for a few years,
I can keep up with how most of the gun parts function when Ian explains.
But not this time!
This is the gun equivalent of my KSP rockets. Add more springs/boosters and it'll work eventually.
hmm. something isn't working. i better add something to compensate, rather than rethink my approach.
*jeb dies*
Honestly how did this pass military review befor purchase.
well.... you didn't know how things works in Italy... did you? :-)
The uncle of the chairman`s amore had a slightly simpleminded sister who was the amore of a really fine member of the Fascist Movement who needed a job. His best qualification: he had sweeping the floors of a spring factory! Avanti!
I could prolly make a better LMG than this, and I can’t even make a pipe gun
It worked rather well in Europe - it was in Africa where the issue of dust was a real problem. The gun had some cool ideas to it at the time - the design dates back to the 1920s - it is easy to look at something from behind one's keyboard with all the modernities and advances in technology.
Interesting how little communication there apparently was during that period. This gun was developed at the same time as the Czech ZB 26 series, the French FM 24/29, the Vickers-Berthier and even the various models of the BAR, yet the Italians come up with this monstrocity!
And the horrible thing is the Italian Army run tests on the ZB26 and all, as most armies of the era.
And they nonetheless choosed that nonsense knowing what's around.
Why do I get the feeling that the breda modello 30 would fit nicely in a star wars movie?
Thorstein Wolfgangson it might have already
Thorstein Wolfgangson They used Luis Guns and Stirling SMG's in Star Wars si it's not impossible...
The Jive-Turkey of Zanzibar I'm just thumbing up your comment for no other reason because of your username.
because the aforementioned guns were in starwars, along with MG34's MG42's and STG-44's.
oh and mauser c96's.
Would be one more reason why Stormtroopers can't hit anything.
My favorite detail is that it was particularly troublesome in dusty conditions, and virtually all of 1930s Italy's imperial ambitions centered around North Africa. It wasn't just that they were _also_ operating there, they were pretty much _only_ operating there. Classic. (failure tune from _The Price Is Right_ plays here)
The "tactical and technical trend" (the magazine of the US intelligence) deemed it to be superior to the BREN in dusty conditions. The oiler was surely a "minus", but it was not the only part of the gun. Other features (IE heavy bolt and plenty of space for the dust to be displaced during the bolt's run) made for a decent gun in those conditions.
Wow, I love the sound it makes when you pull back the charging handle.
I had to scroll way to far
GUYS HOLY COW HE ACTUALLY FOUND A PRO!
That ringing sound when he closed the magazine back makes me concerned about its reliability.
Also, nice hat Ian.
Only slightly more complicated than the interior of a combine harvester
Special viscosity of oil huh? I suspect Extra Virgin Olive Oil knowing those Italians.
Edwin It tastes great
It's part of the Italian Killsuine
As an Italian, can confirm.
No, no, no - not olive oil - grappa...
Like me, extra virgin
*Sees it has a unique reloading method*
Boys, I wanna see it in Battlefield
You can see it animated on Call of Duty 2: Big Red One.
I’m playing through Big Red 1 right now, and that’s what made me search for this video. I saw that reloading animation and though “Ian has to have covered this”, and he did!
still_guns I wish this thing could have made its way to battlefield 5. They probably would have found a way to make it overpowered
@@dawsongranger4940 Alas, we'll never know now
They tried adding it to BF but even then the damn gun wouldn't work!
I feel like the Nikonov looked at this machine gun, and said to himself "I can make it even more complicated if I find someone to hold my vodka" - hence the AN-94
The AN94 actually works fine in the field though, it is just a bitch to maintain out of combat. This mg, not so much.
The an94 has a complicated mechanism so it can shoot 2 rounds before the recoil is felt. 99% of the complexity in this thing is avoidable.
The magazine itself has so many bells and whistles that the Italians could use it in their military bands .
It is not possibly the worst mg ever made, it is indeed the worst mg ever made. I’m Italian myself and we all know the reliability of guns like the Carcano rifles or the Beretta pistol model 34, especially on the Russian front or the African front, which were very famous for their hard climate conditions. The MAB 38 as well was a great sub mg, but this is surprisingly an Italian bullshit. I’ve read terrible memories of our soldiers on the eastern front dealing with this dump during intense combat.
I'm glad it was that way. If Italians had a better weapons maybe Fascist and Nazis would win the war?
Tonny Malero we Italians suffered deep lacks of materials, vehicles and armaments on almost any front of the war, especially on the eastern one. I’m from north of the country, where almost anyone who served in the Italian Army has been part of the Alpini, the mountain troops, which are very famous for being part of the ARMIR, the expeditionary corp who was sent to fight Red Army in Ukraine. We heard tons of stories from our uncles or grandpas who survived that war and reached to come back home. No winter gear, no supplies, deeply incompetent high officers: the only good side is the brave men who fought in frozen trenches and in extreme conditions, even if they knew the war was already lost before firing a single shot.
@@enricofesta1161 I know Italians are good people, I am from former Yugoslavia. I herd stories from old guys that was much better in WW2 to bu occupied by Italians than Germans. But they was fighting for Mussolini, still better they lost war for any reasons, bad weapons lack of motivation etc...
Tonny Malero most of the Italians were not willing to fight because they had no reason for attacking other people like Russians or Greeks who did nothing bad to Italy.
@@enricofesta1161 I said that lol. No motivation.
7:40 let me translate this for you Ian :)
From left to right in the first line: Rifle Machinegun Model 30.
On the right you have a crown on top of an ‘RE’ which stands for Regio Esercito (Royal Army).
In the lower right you have ‘A. XX’ (anno/year 20 in Latin numbers) and it refers to the 20th year of the ‘Fascist Era’, counting from the rise to power of Fascism in Italy.
I hope this helps the non-Italian viewers understand these peculiar markings.
That adjustable bit on the H block would allow the firmature nut to rotate slightly further when the bolt slams forward. I bet since the barrel is a little loose there are some barrels (or maybe bolts) that would not properly seal with the firmature nut if the H block is in the normal position (as Ian has it here) and you need the H block in the other position to allow the firmature nut to turn a little farther and seal completely. Using the other position wouldn't make any noticeable different on a barrel that uses the normal position because the firmature nut is already turned far enough to fully seal.
Needlessly Complicated: The Machine Gun.
Breda: The Springening
AND it isn't German!
@@Nonsense010688 The difference between the Germans over engineered guns and this thing is that the German guns were fucking fantastic weapons and would actually be in functioning condition on the Battlefield.
The complexity of this makes me appreciate John Browning even more. He understood the KISS principle.
It's not like the BAR didn't have it's fair share of problems.
You misspelled Mikhail Kalashnikov.
Browning only took decades to refine his designs, the 1911 was finished in 1913
For real thank god he made the 50 for us.
@@jackdoe7401 and the ma duece
17:52 The only functional purpose I can see for that locked up slider in the H piece is as an adjustable lock up limiter. When the locking nut cams over fully it hits the side of that plate. That's what ultimately limits its travel. If you look closely at its geometry and the channel it sits in, sliding it backwards also allows it to shift further into its channel, opening up the area and allowing slightly more travel for the locking nut. In its current position - it allows slightly less instead.
Maybe it was used as a workaround for QC issues involving locking nuts. Could also be related to sustained fire, maybe some of these parts misbehave when they get a bit warm.
Yep, I came to the same conclusion! If you change the maximum angle of rotation for that nut, you change how far the bolt head is pulled towards the chamber in the locked position. Adjustable headspacing. Looks like a clever way to do it, albeit a bit complicated. Fits perfectly with the rest of the gun then :)
I think it was for barrel wear. Not really in the heat of battle adjustable but a combination of shooting with rather hot barrels and undoubtedly poor Italian steel probably caused extreme chamber erosion, that little part probably doubled the life span of a barrel.
For being such a bad firearm, it sure is fun for Ian to talk about. It has many moving parts which make it a nightmare to maintain. But if you consider it as a whole, it really is a work of art in it's own special way.
30-06 Chauchat: Im the worst lmg that has ever been issued!
Breda: Hold my beer.
Ian should be in charge creating the next generation of firearms. He has seen all of the designs, what works and what doesn't. Couple him with a few firearms savvy engineers and a nice gunsmith shop, good to go.
It would be a giant Bergmann in .280 British.
Giant _carbon fiber_ Bergmann in .280 british with a 1-6x variable scope
Make sure it has a pistol grip. He loves those
Don't forget to make it left-handed or ambidextrous.
Levi Strauss He’d make a 1911
If the feed lips were in the Rifle body itself, I wonder why they didn’t try to make simple cheap box magazines that could be mass produced and didn’t need to be accurately made?
The fact that some people still defend this monstrosity is bewildering, I once saw someone claim "The only thing stopping the modello 30 from becoming mainstream was an improved clip".
"And the only thing stopping me from being a gold medalist Olympic sprinter is the fact that i don't have legs" yahtzee crosshaw
Chauchat haters have never seen this monstrosity.
I actually like the Chauchat if they just sealed up the magazine it wouldn't have been that bad of an automatic rifle.
That open slot in the magazine was remarkably stupid. But the other problem was that a lot of them were made by a factory that was in the business of making motorcycles (or maybe bicycles. I forget). Their quality control was not very good. On the ones that were made in .30-06 for the US they got the chamber dimensions wrong. But a Chauchat that was built correctly and wasn't being used in a mudhole was, for the time, a decent weapon. They continued in use in parts of Eastern Europe through the '30's.
+Drew Isaac It still would have seized up after 200 rounds. The Chauchat is actually worse than the Breda, and that's saying something.
+Laird Cummings The Chauchat is a long recoil machine gun. That is a fundamentally flawed idea.
+Laird Cummings They tried to classify it that way, but in actual practice it needed a 4-man team, just the same as any LMG.
You know it's bad when you hear 'machine gun' and 'fixed magazine' in the same sentence.
years ago, I talked to an El Alamein veteran. his weapon was just the breda. I asked for his opinion. the first response, with pride, was "good weapon". then he added "you had to know how to use it and keep it clean". he was a paratrooper of the "Folgore" division, and he had certainly received better training.
Credo che variasse da mitragliere a mitragliere il pensiero sull'arma. Molti la trovarono pessima, pochissimi ottima.
Ma non si può negare che era un'arma mal progettata
forse parlava della Breda Mod.37?
If I was a Star Wars character this would absolutely be my sci-fi, future, space gun.
"I don't know how this is even possible, but my blaster jammed"
@@FlashHawk4 "Blow the cell feed lips, any dust and gunk might interrupt the tibanna flow."
BAR looking pretty good now
Would have looked better had it had a special belt fed chute to increase its LMG effectiveness
The bar was an excellent lmg it was just outdated as it was used in ww1 and was against the mg34 and 42.
Also they did not develop a belt fed chute for.t like they did with the A AR10 demonstration vid. As that would have increased its effectiveness in sustained fire role
@Nick G excellent for ww1 combat.
@Nick G The BAR was an excellent autorifle during ww1 but lacked the suppression capability needed during ww2.
That magazine design is just as terrible as they could come up with.
starving troll Nope, too big. California demands less dakka.
starving troll nah too assault looking vro
Christian Changer wait until he does the breda m37
no, automatic weapons are illegal to bring into calif. even with a tax stamp. you would also have to remove the flash hider. the magazine would be complaint for the moment, but you would have to disable the magazine release so you could not detach it without a "tool". plus, as Hentai said, it looks too "evil" "assault rifle". oh yes there is the hand grip that would have to be replaced. :-(
The magazine is what struck me also. Even for the time that's backwards as all hell. I mean, lots of guns end up engineered too complicated, but a 'stripper clip' kinda thing on a full auto...weird.
Hi guys, i am an italian fan of the channel.
Despite the inappropriate project of this weapon, i would like you can appreciate the quality of the handcradfted mechanical parts: they reflects the passion and accuracy displayed by workforce at that times.
Unfortunately, a lot of italians soldiers lost their lives due to incompetence of high commands and politicians in both world wars.
Some years ago i met an old man who was part of the crew of a "Semovente 75/18" in Northern Africa campaign: he told that, during action, the cast iron made breech of the small cannon could irremediably break after very few shots due to poor materials used by the factories.
You can figure out how it was to get stuck in the desert with no supply in the middle of a battle..
I know its a crap gun, but, I'd love to see the Breda in a Fallout style FPS as a scratch built assault rifle for raiders and nomads
Not even scrapper-scavenger types would go for that kind of magazine
Play fallout 2 then scrub.
You can play around with this machine gun in the Medal of Honor breakthrough, though only once per game
You missed the whole point of this presentation. It's not a crap gun in and of itself. It's just that it was far too complicated with having nearly 200 moving parts. By the time a gunman became somewhat versed in using it would be too late for him to defend himself in a combat situation.
@@imbluz fair
And gun Jesus said, "behold this gun is a piece" and it was not good.
MrRagequitnow Gunthany Jesustano here, the internet's busiest firearms nerd, and this old Breda machine gun... It's not good.
And yet he claims that 1915 Chauchat isn't so bad, despite that it is worse in just about every possible way to the Breda.
ostiariusalpha could you go in depth with that. Just want to hear what was terrible with the 1915 model. I mean that was worse than the Breda
ostiariusalpha not so bad for 1915
I wouldn't dump on the chauchat so much, His Holiness has a liking for that gun.
Hey Ian, the word you were looking for is "Mitragliatore" ;)
Cheers from an italian viewer! Keep them vids coming man, really love your work!
What's the difference between that and "Mitragliatrice" (which I believe is the Italian for SMG)?
jsm666 Masculine and feminine
The "Fucile Mitragliatore" is an automatic rifle, so basically a rifle capable of full-auto fire, like the BAR. The "Mitragliatrice" is a machine gun, like the M1919. An SMG, in italian, is called a "Pistola Mitragliatrice" (machine pistol)
Also, the "A. XX" at the end indicate the year following the Fascist Era calendar (year 0 is 1922, so that particular LMG was built in 1942).
Breda: I am worst machine gun ever made.
Chauchat: hold my Ian.
"You certainly didn't want one of these if you were in the Italian military during WWII."
I can safely go a step further and say you certainly wouldn't want to be in the Italian military during WWII. 🤣🤣
Aw, the Navy did a fantastic job all things considered, and the Army fought REALLY hard which is impressive considering they were armed with Bredas and led by Mussolini.
Ahahahaah
I would!
I'm Italian and I don't feel offended by this video, just ashamed :D
Given the tradition n Italy has in firearm design, this is complete nonsense, a monument to unnecessary complexity.
You can name any country in the war and find a reason to mock them for a certain reason. Italian POW's were very well respected while held in Australian camps. Excellent trades/craftsmen. A lot immigrated after the war.
The Beretta 92fs has redeemed the firearms tradition of Italy.
@@scareypete13
Beretta in general, fam.
@@anfo_4241 hell, I'd do the same if country that took me as a POW and treated me with respect, atleast visit as much as I could
@@scareypete13 plus Beretta has a long history of making firearms
:(
Daddy Dank stfu
Daddy Dank mussolini did better then king Emmanuel 2
@@Anto-sm5fl w dux!!
Hahahah
: (
Really beautifully machined. For a mass produced military weapon this has some top notch , master class machine work and finishing. Not at all necessary in a mass produced military weapon. The tight tolerances must have made this a night mare to try and strip when dirty.
I love how Ian referenced Inglorious Basterds at the beginning when he said “bonjourno”
MORE SPRINGS!!!
Ian,
You are right this is a very complex design with all kinds of pitfalls but the machine work is beautiful. Can you imagine how that machine gun would work if the machine work was bad also.
Kenneth Dahl Close range grenade launcher, one time use.
It would fall apart while simultaneously shooting springs everywhere?
legend has it that any Italian sees this weapon blaspheme on the spot.
I was an ALPINO and i know your HAT!!! 👍🏼 w gli ALPINI
That hat tho
Beware, Gun Jesus will smite thee!
That is a capello alpino of italian mountaineers
"Cappello" (2 p's). "Capello" (1 p) means hair in Italian...
Costantino Andruzzi exactly, mountain hair
Salokin Sekwah
Service beret of the Italian alpine units
I’m Italian and I’m lost for words over this thing 🤭😂
All jokes aside, it’s a fascinating peace of weaponry and to think after all these years it’s obviously been well looked after.
I wonder if that was captured in North Africa ?
Mussolini: "I have this bag of springs here and I want you to construc a machine-gun around it!"
Breda: "Much obliged, Duce!"
I wouldn't mind owning one as a colectors item, but holy crap I'd go to war with a club before I ever use that thing.
it would be a great club considering how heavy it is.
The year of production of the gun is specified in terms of the year of the fascist era.
So at minute 7:48 you can read Breda - Roma - A. XX, or 20th year (anno) of the fascist era, meaning late October 1942 to late October 1943.
il 30 anno di era Fascista sarebbe stato XXX ,il 1952 l'anno pornografico .
If I EVER hear somebody complaining about Germany over-complicating things, I will link them this video.
My God, what an abomination.
.rzr they are technically allies of germans.
They didn't over machine, they made to many different "different" weapons. Instead of tigers and Panthers, I would have made all Panthers and no tigers. 3 Panthers to about 1.5 tigers. The panther was an outstanding tank unlike the tiger, which wasn't reliable and was too huge to cross most bridges. Almost all other German weapons, except the luger which jammed easily with dirt, were outstanding weapons. They also DIDN'T, change calibers as far as I know like the Americans and Russians which made things easier logicistly. Unlike the Japanese which is a quartermasters nightmare. The Americans only had 3 main calibers, I'm not sure about the Germans and British, my metric system is horrible. I just know they didn't change mid war. I'm sorry, the Americans did add the .30 carbine, but it was the same throughout the war, so 4. It was mainly for non combat roles, mechanic, cook, etc.
@@jeremystewert4303 Frankly I don't think the Germans can even afford Panthers, possibly lots of Stugs and panther for spearheads only.
@@jeremystewert4303 The Germans, like the Italians had the problem of often utilizing modernized WW1 equipment or, even worse, captured equipment.
Now the Italians didn't really use captured equipment much, mostly because everything they found was immedtaly disassembled the moment the engineers for their hands on them, but the amount of modernized equipment was a nightmare, made even worse by how they sometimes used naval or plane guns.
ze germans: halte meine G11
Hi everyone,
The markings on the “rifle” is :
“FUCILE MITRAGLIATORE MODELLO 30”.
It’s means machine guns rifle model 30, the rest is finely explained by Ian. I really appreciate your review on this weapon, especially for the Alpini’s hat ( I’m an Alpino ).
Greetings from Italy 🇮🇹
Awesome video Ian, keep up the great work!