Can a Shaky Three-Point Shooting Wing Thrive in the Modern NBA? | J. Kyle Mann
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- čas přidán 12. 12. 2023
- In the NBA, in the age of shooting and spacing, the world can be a gloomy place for the perimeter player who struggles for respect from beyond the arc. If defenses don’t take them seriously, why should we? In this video, The Ringer’s J. Kyle Mann takes a look at the recent precedent for players who face these challenges, what it takes to succeed, and whether or not Anthony Black or Ausar Thompson have a chance to meet that standard.
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Ahh. I wish Kyle J Mann put out videos at the consistency of a Thinking Basketball. These videos are always amazing.
same
There is definitely a ton involved with these videos in regards to research, editing, etc. But they are so good. Has to be tough to balance moving when inspired and carrying out an extensive process to create these masterpieces & trying to keep up with the demand from fans like ourselves. Regardless, I do wish they were more frequent, but I understand good things take time. Let me know if you agree...
phase cancellation, ausar thompson, griselda type beat in the background
you’re my hero kyle
FIRE! Another Kyle video, I wish they would just make a Ringer NBA YT channel and let you run it. Your videos are SO GOOD. Jmxy is the only other guy in the business that competes at this level, IMO (in the category of "highly produced documentary style vids" to be clear)
Jmx videos are more production and hype than literal breakdowns. Kyle's 1 of 1
You gotta look up Thinking Basketball. His greatest peaks series is youtube perfection for basketball junkies. Definitely on the level of Kyle.
Yes pls, alway though the same
Hoop venue is also really good
Check out Thinking Basketball. J Kyle Mann and Ben Taylor deserve so much more recognition then they get.
Kyle's vids are by far the best on this channel
I’m glad you mentioned Ausar and his off dribble pull up shots. He jumps so high on those mid ranges, and he seems to kinda float in the air just a split second longer than everyone else. I’m very confident of his mid range game because that’s a legit weapon not many can guard. He just has to learn to use it more, which is hard to do on a team full on non shooters lol.
Yeah his short mid-range game is actually already really good and he has good touch on those but I'm not sure how well that translates further out. His overall touch is still not very good.
I think he's kind of the exception to the rule about non-shooting wings because he can function so well as lob threat from the dunker spot and as a cutter -- which basically means if you hide your big on him that big can't leave him which is the same effect as if he was actually a good shooter -- and if you have a wing on him he'll beat them on the glass. (At least in a functional NBA offense, as opposed to what Detroit does.) And I think he can develop as a hub and roller because of that short mid-range game, his finishing and passing ability.
As a Pacer fan, I really want him to be on Pacer's roster@@michaelahurt
You are most certainly right with the last part you wrote. The mid range isn't really a high impact regular season weapon and especially surrounded by a bunch of other non-shooters. With the way the Pistons are built and with their GM not as aggressive in being able to change things up, I think Asuar will probably flourish with his skillset in another team who will trade for him. Probably one that is a playoff threat with shooting talents. Could sorta play out like Aaron Gordon's situation being moved from the Magic to the Nuggets.
i think if he jumps a little less on shots further out he’ll develop a lot more control with range.
he is my favorite this year, his good defense make me feel like he'll grow into a kawhish player would be nice
J Kyle really doesn't miss. Ausar is such a special talent. He reminds me so much of Bobcats GOAT Gerald Wallace. I hope Ausar can add a jumper to make him a true 2-way terror.
bro did you hear what Gilbert Arenas said about him? he be knowing ball but man that was rough
The premise of the video is players don't just casually add a jumper. Hoping a player with such a bad shot can become a good shooter is like hoping you can win the lottery. Sure, it happens, but you can't count on it.
@@Isaac-mk3wj Gil has been wrong about players before. Lets not act like he's he never back tracked on players he saw differently.
@@Isaac-mk3wjHe's right. Ausar is absolutely not looking like a franchise player. If you wanna think of him as a valuable player who could fill a role around a superstar then thats fine but to build around him would be insane based off what we have seen.
@@andrewshandleespecially when theyre as bad from the line as ausar. His form is also absolutely disgusting with very few redeemable qualities. Pretty much every bad shooter that became a good one had overall good form except for one really bad trait.
For example, kawhi's form back in college looked great everywhere except his set point which was way too high and back, to the point he was catapulting shots. All the spurs had to do was move his setpoint forwards and a little lower and he immediately became a waaay better shooter because everything else was already good.
As a Magic fan I was disappointed with the AB pick but after watching him play with the team I see the vision. Very smart player, just knows how to play and where to be. If his shooting ever catches up to his IQ he’s gonna be a really good player but at the very least he’s a great defender and decision maker
nah i just think he need to improve his decision making tho, if u look at the assisted/TO Ratio it's almost 1:1, he loss hella TOV even though he didn't take a lot of load on the Offense, this kinda dissapointed me lil bit, cuz this TO problem is his weakness since the college, btw he a rly great defender and i hope he can improve his offensive game, i think he still had a good vision and he can be a good passer in the future
@@wutangboss Turnovers are a noisy stat for playmakers especially in the modern era. Lebron has a career TOV/game of 3.5 with 3.6 in his last six seasons. But you still give him the ball because he's got the handles and he's still got the court vision to hook up a teammate anywhere on the floor. Jokic in his last 3 seasons has 3.5 TOV/game but if you see the passes he makes on the regularity along with the high difficulty of it, the turnovers that are a byproduct are nebulous. But as you wrote if Brown can turn to a plus defender and be more decisive with his decision making on offense, he'll be fine. Plus he doesn't have be hidden in matchups either in comparison to smaller point guard types.
Wallace would have been a better pick though, but as a Magic fan, the Jet Howard pick should be the one that disappoints you. 😉
@@t4d0W are you comparing LeBron and Jokic who even with high TOs have a 2+ assist to TO ratio with AB who's sitting at 1.4? Talk about an insane reach.
Lebron and Joker also do a million other things that add value to a team, so maybe it's not the best idea with using single stats of theirs as arguments
@@andrewshandle that's what i'm talking about, idk why he didn't get it and i just said AB didn't take any responsibility on the offense, i mean nobody guard him, every team let him shoot 3's and didn't even care his PnR game every team plays drop coverage with him i say he prolly 6-8 options in the offense LOL, and he comepared AB to LBJ, Jokic who is 1 option offensive player on their team
So many people, including many of JKM's colleagues at the Ringer, think all you need to do is get in the gym and you can improve your shooting when in reality is almost never happens.
For every De'Aaron Fox who finally figured out how to shoot in year 6 there is 50-100 players who never improved their shot and just disappeared from our minds completely as they wash out of the league.
I second this. Blake Griffin was an example of mine from the last decade who took 8 years to have a respectable 3-ball jumper. Isaac Okoro was one of the prospects who was physical and had great defensive tools but he would certainly see more time if he had a working jumper. There is a reason why he comes off the bench with limited minutes nowadays. Also a big reason why some mid-late drat talents who were ignored because they were junior/senior standouts in some backwater school/division flourished in their roles coming in as rookies. Because they have complete games (for the most part) and they just need NBA reps to catch up.
Too many guys try to out work bad form but thats just not possible. No matter how many reps you get, bad form is still bad form.
Most of the time the best approach would be to completely rebuild these guys' shots but for some reason that never happens.
@@jojoprocess2820 I'm always surprised when a guy has bad form, especially when they're a great athlete. Ausar is, by all accounts, a coachable guy and a hard worker, so how does he never fix that busted form over the last 5 years as he went through AAU.
It's one thing for a guy to extend his range to three, plenty of examples of that (Brook Lopez, Blake Griffin, etc.). But it's hard for me to think of guys who went from bad shooters to good shooters. I don't think there's really any precedent for a guy who shoots as bad as Ausar to just "figure it out" one day.
@@conehed1138 So out of curiosity I wanted to compare Ausar to Scoot and found that the G-League has scrubbed 15 games off Scoot's career (and so has BB-Ref) and it makes his G-League career look much better than it was. Thankfully RealGM stiill has the data.
Ausar at OTE: .486/.298/.667
Scoot at GLI: .429/.275/.764
Scoot's FT at least might give you a ray of hope, but learning to shoot at the same time as learning how to play in the best league in the world is a huge ask.
This is why I was so surprised at how so many Ringer hoops writers (and fans) were so high on Scoot. He has the worst eFG of any player in the draft for over a decade (at least), and he went 3rd!
SO happy when a Kyle Mann video drops!
I'd really love to hear a deep dive on the Raptors. Between Pascal, Scottie and OG, no team seems to be more dedicated to building around 3 guys of this exact archetype. They seem to prove the point of requiring shooting, since with Dennis and Jak on the floor, the wings are left to operate in a phone booth. Still, that connective passing you mentioned is at a premium with those guys, especially Scottie and Pascal.
As a Raps fan it's pretty clear that it doesn't work.
@@andrewshandle1 month later and Scottie is the only one left lol
@@owenflibbert8019 yep, apparently Masai's new thing is trading first round picks for mediocre centers in the last year of their deals and overpaying them. ;)
Always so exciting when I see a J Kyle Mann thumbnail on my feed!
As an Arkansas fan, I love AB. He cares so much about defense and winning. Saw a 6'7" Derrick white type player in him coming out of college
I dunno bout Derrick White but if the jumper doesn't ever show, I'm cool with a healthier Shaun Livingston type. At least being able to drive against smaller players and finishing at the rim with that size/length advantage should be a start.
AB has more of chance of developing a Jumper than the Thompson's imo. His release is slow but i wouldnt call his form broken. Hes also has the highest BBIQ between them imo.
FINALLY another Kyle Mann video, plsss make more brotha
The ONLY vids I come here to see. I love your content man, wish they would have you do more. Great breakdown and keep up the good work
Yes!
Lebron in 2013 as the feng shui guy desgining a room is brilliant
Ever since joining the ringer we've rarely gotten these great breakdowns from Kyle. I miss The Dime Drope. Make him more of a feature The Ringer‼️‼️‼️
This is greatly produced Ringer product.
Kyle would be perfect for about any content on here. Love the Ringer! From sports to pop culture.
Thanks for not being “snarky” like so many other sports commentators
Thanks for the daredevil reference highly appreciated
We need more Kyle videos!! Can Ringer allow Kyle to have his own channels or at least name his own show? Just like KOC's mismatch! We need more Kyle!!
I think the Thompson twins would greatly benefit from a shooting coach(es) that tells them to keep their right shoulder down at all costs all the way through the shooting motion. They have so much muscle, so guaranteeing that they stay engaged is the trick. That engagement question is the reason why Ausar is better off the dribble than in catch-and-shoot.
Anthony Black has a different engagement area he needs to work on: his hips. This is the root cause of his "reclining" behavior on his 3pt shot, a lack of lower core and hip engagement on the moment of launch. I think this is fixable as well, and he could, like Kyle Anderson, turn into a passable catch-and-shoot player with some work.
Christmas came early this year thanks j kyle cheers happy holidays
need J. Kyle to narrate my life
Yet another eloquent masterpiece. Bravo!
“Teams will force them to prove that they improved” damn 🔥
Need J Kyle Mann solo channel ASAP
Seeing only two uploads by this man so far this NBA season is such a shame he makes top tier nba content
Such a good video! Although he's not a rookie, Herb Jones fits this mold so well. 6'7", 7" wingspan, couldn't really shoot it his earlier seasons but he's looking much more comfortable taking and making his 3's now. It's opened up more scoring for the Pels and his finishing on drives (usually after he forces a turnover) is crazy good.
More of these videos please 🔥
LETS GO J KYLE MANN!
Great video. Really enjoyed this one
You are soooo good man! Your videos are among my favourite on CZcams. And I love the fact that you get along with Ben Taylor. You guys are both awesome. But your vids have a spicy quality to them that makes the experience unique. Bravo
Agree! Great Video... I wish you or someone could dive deeper into the Detroit pistons and why it isn't working over there.
Why did Jaquez get highlighted on the "very dubious shooter" list? He had a nice shot in college and has been lights out as a pro
I have no idea. One of his strengths in college was his above average shooting for a big. Obviously he wasn’t lighting things up, but he played on the interior for UCLA at many points and his form has always looked great
Really good video
Yessir love the vid!
jaime is a diff sort of shooter and player than other three
AB was definitely a bewildering pick on draft night when we already have Markelle Fultz as our point guard, who has similar shooting deficiencies. But not with Fultz being down again, the pick makes more long term sense. AB has been a surprisingly willing and decent set shooter from 3. The way he navigates the floor on defense is truly impressive. But to be a long term fixture he will need to expand the offensive game. It certainly won't be for lack of effort. He's consistently seen after games getting up extra shots.
This guy needs his own episode
Best video content on CZcams.
Great work
Great video.
YAYYY ANOTHER VIDEO
Ohmigod a J Kyle Mann video I am a thirsty man in a desert with a tall, taaall glass of cold water
Great video. I used to be one of those guys who say take the shooter, but there is a conundrum. In the playoffs those guys can’t do anything.
So I wanted the Magic to take some shooting and while I didn’t think Black was a bad player, I definitely did not want him in Orlando. Of course they took him.
I have seen him live now and watched the games. You can’t teach how good he is defensively. You described him perfectly. He lets his feet guide him, he fights through screens, he has amazing defensive positioning awareness, and he is just flat out huge. Fultz has been out pretty much the whole season and he has started and we have a top 5 defense. He and Suggs(man…he is a top 4 or 5 best defensive guard in the league) hound opposing backcourts. And with Suggs developing a shot(thank you basketball gods), if Fultz were to move on, I’m totally on board with a Suggs/Black back court.
Ausar(I have seen Detroit live twice in two different states) is really good and honestly Detroit should build around him. After watching Cade his rookie season, I have felt that he isn’t extremely skilled enough to overcome his lack of athleticism and the fact he somehow lost 2” from college. Move him off ball and he can excel in that role. Ausar is explosive and sees the court well.
Always get the elite defensive player. You can figure out ways to make them work on offense. The Zero on defense??? He better be Steph Curry or Luka Doncic.
Love that X-Men night of the sentinel episode clip
I only watch The Ringer because of J. Kyle Mann. If it's not J. Kyle Mann I'll automatically ignore the video.
The goat is back
What is the ending sound track, its flames and i mess wit this vid
My lord J Kyle. King of YouToops
HES BACK
I love you, Kyle
babe wake up J Kyle Mann just dropped
hey babe lol ty
The shooting forms on this video are ATROCIOUS.
Don't ever do this to us again. 😭😭😭😭
jkjk you're awesome as always Kyle
Really wish the video releases were on a weekly or monthly basis but I'll take what I can 😢
The Jaquez pick was a steal, many HEAT fans wanted Cam whitemore. NBA Ready guys with a high floor should be the new wave
Better than ESPN
Andre Jackson might be the best out of all of them at this stage
cool video
Whats the verdict so far on ivy ? Is the twin the keeper next to cade ?
MORE KYLE MANN VIDEOS BRO
That was good.
Finally hes back! JKM!!
Ausar's form is ok, although he does tend to bend in a way that makes him look like uncooked prawn, but a bigger problem is how there's a brokem rythym to his energy transfer, which most likely contributes to his crazy inconsistency in the ways his shots approach the rim.
I like Ausar, idk if I would’ve took him as the pistons though. Might’ve traded back and seen if I could get a more polished guy. Jaime looks great. Jordan Hawkins was a guaranteed flame thrower. Sometimes I wish teams would draft for fit instead of just talent and teams and players career would end up better.
I think Ausar is going to be ok. Det needs to tweak their roster a bit but his form still looks pretty good. It takes a while to adjust to how long the 3 is in the NBA, people dont often think about it,
Do a video on Josh Giddey’s breakout season!
no
Hes shooting league worst 47% TS. Awful
More like breaking out that 15 yr old girl
5:25 song?
Kyle is the best
I don't know how you didn't mention the Heat, a team that has been in title contention in the last 5 years with their two best players being non-threats from 3, when contextualizing players who can succeed without being a major threat from 3.
Josh Hart is great at this role.Although I’m not sure he qualifies as shaky from 3 being a career 35% from distance.He just has long hot and cold stretches throughout the year.
🐐
Kyle please start a off shot YT channel!
BRO THE FENG SHUI REFERNCE
bro this is literally me....compensated poor shooting mechanics growing up by playing hard nose on and off ball defense
Black is a much better passer than you gave him credit for. He is a point that doesn't turn the ball over. The Magic's record speaks for itself.
When he’s averaging a double double and 2 blocks while showing you playmaking ability and super athleticism..? Yeah, he’ll be Ight.
With the tools and resources available to these pro players, there’s no reason to not have a good pull up jumper. It’s either they work on it; or they don’t
Great job Megan
Jimmy butler literally just made the finals as the best player on his team in a year where he made fewer than 1 3 a game
Hey! JJJ has been shooting 39 percent from three.
Westbrick doesnt have enough of that... Clippers are also iso heavy...
6:56 yet*
Anthony Black has the God given tools to be a perennial top 5 player in the NBA by God's Grace; you heard it first. Smart and passionate, those 2 alone can move one to the top of the top. From love for the game comes the motivation to work and being smart with how you work does the job further. combine all that with the belief in yourself and in things that can be made possible and the sky's the limit
2:55 give me iguodala
Kyle just make your own YT channel
The answer to the title is: YES, his name is Demar Derozan
Only if he a great passer + defender.
Yeah you can but they have to be excellent every place else
I think Ausar has a bad shooting coach. His shot looks overly doctored and uncomfortable as if he’s learning to shoot from a textbook. He needs to get his feet a bit closer together and turned left at like 30 degrees. Compensate for his obvious lack of wrist flexibility.
Andre Jackson is shooting 45% from 3 lol
They play basketball so might want to invest in tryinf to put together a shooting package or put in the work. Cant just rely on athleticism and dunking.
AB will be an All Star. WPS
2023 nba draft class is talented and then shows Chet Holmgren
He said this rookie class, not the draft class.
quiet nerd@@andrewshandle
@@kofig8357 I accept your apology
Bron did 21 years so yeah
Bilal?
...and idiots said that Amen was more athletic than Ausar... his TWIN...his clone...c'mon man
I mean would you consider Giannis a wing?
I would not.
I was watching his CZcams channel leading up to the draft and the one thing I noticed is how he trains. He is very lackadaisical with his training. Very low intensity and laid back shooting drills. My initial thought was this guy is not going to be good in the NBA if he continues to train like this. He is playing exactly how I thought he would. Until he starts training like an NBA player, he will continue to play like a kid. Ik he’s young but his coaches should be better or he will be a wasted talent.