Nobunaga vs the Country Samurai (Part 1) | Ninja Myths
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- čas přidán 9. 11. 2018
- How Oda Nobunaga dealt with the regions of Iga and Koka.
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Hey y’all, thanks for watching! Check out Turnbull’s book:
Ninja: Unmasking the Myth: amzn.to/2Ofx7kE
It's true, Iga DOES have terrible cellphone connection!
Yeah!
Mind blown... All along most people thought it was ninja village but.... They were actually a samurai all along 😱
😬
Sounds like exactly what a village of ninjas would want you to think
Actually a lot of shinobi were samurai who did espionage.
People thought peasants were even given rights by the Ikkis
It kind of was. Jizamurai were prominent in the Iga Ikki, the Koka Ikki was mostly peasants. The Iga-Koka alliance was between Jizamurai and peasants but they all had a decentralized communalist confederacy
Really glad you're heading down the path of info about Nobunaga, definitely not enough about him coming from non-Japanese sources on samurai history, despite how important he was in shaping the direction of a unified Japan. Good call on Stephen Turnbull too, I also have a couple of his books.
Yeah had he not been betrayed and forced to commit suicide along with his son, he may have eventually outshone Tokugawa and headed up the Shogunate instead
Tokugawa preferred to kill his own wife and son than reveal his deception (secret plans with the enemy Takeda) which just goes to show how much he feared Oda, bearing in mind this is his own ally here that he accomplished much with
Nobunaga was also very outward-thinking, particularly in comparison to his contemporaries - he embraced European culture, was a fan of wine, and famously made the African Yasuke his Samurai retainer which I cannot imagine any of the other figures of the period doing (though we cannot say, they may have)
If he had gone on to live and unify Japan instead of Ieyasu then Japan might have seen 200 years of trade and contact with the outside world, instead of isolation and closed borders. Looking at what Japan has gone on to achieve since Meiji despite this 200-year disadvantage makes one think what could have happened if they hadn't been closed off to the rest of the world. From wooden houses to bullet train in a few decades, and a leader in technological innovation.. was it because of or in spite of Sakoku? That's an interesting question.
Shinobi no Mono are Samurai, and yes like Lin said they were not called Ninja nor were they dedicated assassins but they were operatives, commandos and scouts. they did spying and night attacks but they were also like any other Samurai who walked in broad day light, fought battles (face to face) and so on. they could have attempted assassinations when ordered but "assassins" aren't who they are.
Some were of high rank but later on when their home was destroyed they were not considered "Samurai" anymore but remained "warriors".
"Shinobi no mono" means "person that moves quietly". So although they were samurais (because they belonged to the samurai class) they could be called ninjas.
Ninjas was their job, samurai was their class. Much like a "nobleman" from medieval Europe could be a soldier or a cleric or a landowners.
But the word ninja is not contemporary to the sengoku period.
@@caracaes it's like be on viking. There were never a viking cultur but warriors from the northern and baltic sea who went on a viking.
A lot of the issue here is that a modern reading of history that paints Shinobi (Ninjas) as far less prevalent than they have been made out to be, a fanciful, romanticised near-falsehood, is that it ignores cultural idiosyncrasies
Shinobi often practiced the 'darker arts' when it came to warfare; things like guerilla tactics, espionage, assassination; in a society centred around honour, and within that a profession even more focused on honour, the samurai bushido code leaves no room for the more 'dishonourable' side of warfare that Shinobi represented, so no samurai that engaged in it would have been very forthcoming in admitting their participation in these 'dark arts' and suffer the consequence of a substantial loss of honour.
This is probably why the art of Ninjutsu is well-known to us, there are manuals from the time on the techniques one can learn, but very few actual biographies or recorded examples of Shinobi in action
I suspect the use of Shinobi was much higher than we are led to believe today. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
This is seriously my favorite CZcams channel. Linfamy, keep it up man! Spread the Knowledge!!
I want a Bio about Date Masamune too ❤
Me too!
The whole period is full of awesome characters: Oda (my second favorite Oda, after the mangaka - no relation though: the first kanji is different), Date, Toyotomi, Tokugawa...
@@Mikeztarp yes, completely agree!!!!
Thanks for including the kanji for the words! Makes it easier to read :)
At your suggestion, Tyler :)
Enjoying your presentations ever more. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching and commenting :)
Another great vid!! Keep up the amazing work
Thanks brother :)
Kind of funny that Iga is in such close proximity to Nara and also (kind of) Kyoto which were the political centers of Japan back in the pre-Tokugawa days
Well done. Keep going. Thank you.
"Who let in these Jizamurai hillbillies?" What a nice way to put it :>
Nice one. hope you make more video about less known faction of sengoku jidai such as honganji and ikko sect, these warrior monks are badass and have very interesting story.
Yes, warrior monks are bad ass :)
And are the entire reason Nobunaga hated monks XD
Thank you for this video.
Honestly, I love this channel. Do all the things.
But def do Battle of Sekigahara
Will take a while before we get there :p
great video
Thanks!
They were also called potato samurai because they ate potatoes they grew instead of buying rice and having delivered to them like the rich samurai did
I like that, potato samurai.
Cool name ;)
I'm spreading the knowledge, boss! The other day in some random video's comment section I stumbled upon a conversation about ninjas. I sent them to your first video on the topic. I like killing dreams too. MWAAHAHAHAHAHAHA! 😈
Haha hey it's about history, not killing dreams!
Much of what people think they know about history is a dream or made up to support what people want to be factual. We should call you the Ninja of History.
Lori B 😆
@@lorib1696 Linfamy comes from a secret clan of historians who train in research since childhood, up in the highest shelves of the Imperial Library. They can read in the dark. They can read backwards, and upside-down, and in a mirror. Some say they can even borrow a book from a library without leaving a trace.
This the dude you dont wanna argue with in the comments
Great vid. If possible, I'd like to see on the shinano jizamurai. They were alot more powerful than your normal jizamurai, especially post takeda. *I'm looking at you, Sanada Masayuki*
Good job!
You too!
I misread 甲賀 as Koga. It's Koka. Now I update my knowledge since my childhood.
Whenever I get the Jizamurai notification in Total War: Shogun 2 I always choose the one that gives extra income so I can train more soldiers.
Don't know what this means, but yeah!
Total War: Shogun 2 is an RTS video game that focuses on Sengoku Jidai on vanilla, Genpei War on the first expansion, and Boshin War on the second expansion. I already have around 2500 hours of gameplay ever since I bought the game last 2015.
Ah :). I know it's a game, never played but it looks awesome
Very nice video! It's interesting to learn the "ninja" were different from the myth created by more contemporary sources
Yeah it's always fascinating to see how the truth is changed and embellished over time
Awesome Video!!!!;-)
Awesome comment! ;)
Excellent video. Have a nice day :)
Drive-by compliment, I like it :p
Nice channel :)
Thanks!
So the ninjas were like the Samurai Special Forces
Basically XD
Every clan had samurai who were trained in espionage. Either as retainers or hired on.
Fun Fact: Most Japanese historians regards Shinobi as a mostly 20th century invention with little basis in reality. And the traditional Japanese Koryu associations that list and track all Pre-Meiji
systems of Martial arts has labeled Ninjutsu as fictional and rejected the Bujinkan and other modern Ninjutsu systems as fake and Ninjutsu as a whole non-historical.
Ninja=Bullshido
You should have way more subs!
Haha agreed!
@linfamy I just discovered your content and I gotta say it's good stuff. I'm also making a passion project based on Japanese history. My project is still in its infancy. But the skeleton is visible. Feel free to check it out. It's a fictional story based heavily on kami and the sengoku jidai. On Facebook the group is called "no gods no masters"
The demon king of the six heavens Oda Nobunaga!!!
I cannot believe this series has come this far wow!!!
Long may your reign of knowledge continue Lord Lin!!!
Haha thanks!
Are you the same person from Extra Credits: Extra History one? Because the sound and the animation quite the same. If yes, then, I will definitely surely subscribe and support you. If not, I still support you. 🙆🏻♂️
The intro for Nobunaga is pretty lit
So the Azai were the living breathing "are you winning son?" meme?
it won't become a catchphrase if we use it, it becomes one if you use it more often. #spreadtheknowledge
Ah, words of wisdom
>hears the name Rokkaku
>"concept of love" plays in my head as flashbacks to JSRF flash through my mind
imagine if Big Boss, master of covert operations & warfare were to organize a state or province, with him teaching all the people there how to fight in this type of manner....
oh wait he did...
Linfamy plssssssssss do a video about ISONADE the shark plss
"Jizamurai Hillbillies' sounds like a good name for a band much like "Somebody Still Loves You Boris Yeltsin".
Thank you for helping dispel the misconceptions on the Shinobi, Linfamy--- ESPECIALLY in regards to the Iga and Koka : )
I would also like to talk about a few things in regards to Jizamurai (applies to Iga and Koka too cause they were Country Samurai after all)--- yes they may not possibly be as rich as their regular aristocratic Samurai counterparts, BUT they were not poor by comparison ether!...
Not only did they live in castles like you mentioned, but there is also documented mentions of them living in fortified mansion homes as well, plus combined with the fact that they farm as a side job and being wealthy enough to govern one's own lands and regions without a daimyo--- its really hard to say that they are poor don't you think?... And keep in mind that some of these Jizamurai especially from Iga and Koka did sometimes leave their homeland and hired their skills out, becoming full time high-ranking samurai retainers or low-ranking ashigaru footsoldiers of many daimyos from across Japan.
You are also right that some regular aristocratic Samurai don't like their Jizamurai counterparts and for good reasons. Jizamurai as you just mentioned were allowed to marry any woman they want from any class regardless of nobility or not, regular aristocratic Samurai on other hand do not often get that luxury. Jizamurai often enjoyed much more freedom and less restriction then their Samurai counterparts, its no wonder why they have jealously towards them.... But Jizamurai were still unquestionably very much apart of the culturally-sophisticated Bushi military class...
I read how the relationship was between regular aristocratic Samurai and Jizamurai in Steven Nojiri's In Praise of Spies: Ninjutsu's Role In Shaping Japan if you are interested in checking it out.
www.amazon.com/gp/product/147011948X/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Also Dr. Karl F. Friday from his quote here posted by forum user, George Kohler compared the Jizamurai especially the ones from Iga and Koka to the Yeoman of Medieval England, independent military baron families/clans who own a substantial amount of land and are rich enough to govern their own regions without a lord. And like the Samurai of Iga and Koka they've also sometimes hire out their skills into the services of other lords.
www.martialartsplanet.com/threads/what-is-ninjutsu-to-you.82413/page-5
All of these conclusions of mines are based on what I research and on realistic logical thinking : )
Thanks for the detailed comment!
My sense of it is that jizamurai describes a large group of people, most were poor landowners (like with any group), but there were plenty who were well off and owned castles/estates.
@@Linfamy
Your welcome! glad you liked this comment very much : D
Aww thanks for clarifying that!--- yes you a right that it varies from Jizamurai to Jizamurai, you can have one that is ether really poor or really wealthy.... Its never really one over the other indeed.
3:07 Heisenberg in the Edo period??
Samurai gonna get broken bad 😂
Hurray for Pokémon conquest!
Ah yes I often ask the neighbor if they have flogged a peasant recently lulz.
I remembered this from an anime named Basilisk
The catch phrase I'm spreading is still "Never start butt first." XD
I like that too
I'm not entirely sure why people get oddly defensive about Ninja Myth. Most people past a certain age find out that most Cowboys were just Mexican Farm Hands, and that the myth of the cowboy was mostly an invention of Hollywood. People get bummed when they find out, mind you, but there's usually a 'oh, that makes sense' moment, and people move on with their life.
The Iga's fight for independence reminds me of Leninaga and his Red Army.
Someone read Stephen Turnbull's new ninja book, I see...
Great video, m'man.
Sure did, thanks brother :)
@@Linfamy Any time, chacho. Look forward to part two!
Also, because I had just seen the other video about how "ninjas didn't exist", I'd like to make a slight argument in favor of "Iga and Koka being the best at ninjutsu", based off several criteria, if you're interested.
Sure, go for it
@@Linfamy 1. Based off brief passages of Iga jizamurai being involved in neighboring battles, as well as the Iranki and the "16 Rules Of Iga" treaty, it seems that a favorite tactic amongst the Iga-shu was burning down castles, to the point that even Iga ashigaru were automatically given samurai rank for burning an enemy castle down. While this isn't an inherently ninjutsu thing and is part of military tactics in general, at the very least, it may very often require a samurai to either infiltrate via open disguise or in secrecy and knowing the castle layouts. Such is the case, as the recorded instances of Iga-shu committing shirotori almost always have them "doing it in secrecy".
2. In the early days of the Edo jidai, 300 Iga and Koka mono were the ones to serve as government spies for the shogunate before they were eventually reorganised as castle guards and musketeer units. Now, it can be argued that they were hired because they protected and guided Ieyasu when he was being targeted by Akechi Mitsuhide, but Ieyasu's success had always been because he picked the best and most skilled men to serve him.
3. In ninjutsu mokuroku outside of Iga/Koka traditions, many of them begrudgingly acknowledge that Iga and Koka shinobi no mono were the best. The Shoninki deals with the ninjutsu of the Natori school of military tactics, which has its roots in Kusunoki ryu gungaku and is only one mokuroku in a whole list of Natori ryu military densho, and the Gunpo Jiyoshu ninjutsu section has roots in the Yoshitsune ryu gungaku. And while both were written in the Edo period, neither are Iga and Koka traditions and they are only sections of larger military manuals. Yet, both mention that Iga and Koka shinobi no mono were the best.
4. Ironically enough, the lack of observational documentation on Iga-Koka ninjutsu is enough proof that shinobi no mono from Iga and Koka were great at it. The Bansenshukai often makes mention that "those who are masters at ninjutsu often are unheard of" and "ninjutsu at the highest level is executed in such a way that it looks like a natural disaster occurred".
0:08 is that a demon wind shuriken?
Could you talk about the Minamoto Genji and others one day?
definitely taking about the minamoto
@@Linfamy Yeah. My japanese family randomly stole the seal of them and used it. We are not called Minamoto and probably also not related either
Well it's a good looking seal :p
The animation reminds me of extra history.
Always thought iga was near the gerudo desert
I helped to avenge Nobunaga and stop the rebelion in Kyoto playing Age of Empires.
My hero
I think shinobi or ninja is the part of the bushi (samurai) discipline, where beside fighting toe by toe, a samurai need to be very silent and operate in clandenstine manner to gather information from enemy.
so Ninja is actually a samurai with stealth speciality, not as a separate job
just like in modern military where there is a soldier who fight on the military operation, and those who gather intelligence information secrerly and sabotage enemy's defense. police does that too
if you play onimusha 3, on the opening movie cutscene, Samanosuke became ninja to sabotage genma's ship and then he dueled with nobunaga's demon general in a samurai's fashioned way.. this is the accurate depiction of ninja-samurai profession and discipline.
Yeah I agree there were samurai who engaged in clandestine activities. There were also non-samurai whose job only consisted of specific clandestine activities such as spying.
@@Linfamy I heard that non-samurai such as geisha could be employed to assassinate or gather information as well, was it scientifically true?
or was the geisha actually samurai in disguise?
I'm sure people paid geisha to gather info, but I can't imagine assassinations happened often or at all.
As far as I am concerned, Ninjas were basically men on the fringes of society who used their skills to retrieve intelligence, perform sabotage, and perform assassinations, making anything the average person couldn't acquire, living off the land to feed themselves.
As a "Gun Toting Hillbilly" of the South, I can semi relate to the Jizamurai. It seems most people think everyone from my area is inbred and has a single digit I.Q.
OH MY THIS ONE CAN WRITE
im big fan
I'm Linfamy
@@Linfamy I'm disappoint.
i want a regular life of sengoku era of a normal citizen.
Jizamurai are sort of the landschnecht from germany
Just looked them up. Yeah I see similarities :)
5:18
Puns, crimes against humanity
CZcams sure suggests things in a disorganized manner. I’m still trying to watch this in order and I got lost right at the end of the Minamoto/Taira war.
I changed some playlist settings. The recommendations should be in order for this series now ;)
The only thing I know about Iga is from Rance-Sama
A man of culture I see...
So, in Eurocentric terms, Jizamurai were basically Yeomen?
It wouldn't be a very good secret society if everybody knew about it.
I'm guessing the Jizamurai are Feudal Japan's equivalent of a Medieval European Yeoman.
Are jizzamurai the Japanese equivalent of simp crusaders?
Reminds me of samurai champloo
I see, a man of culture.
Washi koso ga, Dairokuten Maō, Oda Nobunaga ja!
I'm kinda bummed oout to learn nothing was as I envisioned. Samurai like the European Knights bound by a set of honor codes, & a super secret group that was like Navy Seals on steroids that was sent out to take care of problems.
When/how did Japan move from an Imperial State to a Shogunate?
Just look at his genpei war series
I only know about Iga from the movie Shinobi no Kuni
YEAH! My boy Nobunagaaaaa!!!!
Thanks for the new vocab word
Jizamurai
Can't wait to use it
Inappropriately
Oda would be proud
Inappropriately o.o
@@Linfamy Well, you know..
Jizz-a-murai
Like a "self loving" samurai
Loves himself so much so that
He denies himself the pleasures
Of wife or concubine
And better than Musashi
Jizz-a-murai only needs
ONE hand
@Alex Y i got a million of em Alex XDD
@Alex Y Well i dont wanna steal @Linfamy thunder
He was the one that taught it to me
But if he doesn't wanna
i'd merrily do the honors
This did cross my mind, apparently I'm not the only one with the dirty mind :p
koga vs iga
Iga + Koka = Koga
Huh. "Viking" which is something you go do is something similar to "shinobi".
But, specifically trained commando units who have their own culture and tactics isnt unusual in human history.
If only all various Ikkis united and crushed the power of Samurai clans...
Surprised that there are only 5 written accounts of secret activity. If people find out enough about your secret ninja attack to document it you are clearly doing it wrong.
Nobunaga's Ambition?
You skipped the Heian period 😱😢
Noo I didn't, this video is part of the ninja myths series. The main history of japan series will continue as usual
Wait, the ikko-ikki were samurai? I thought they were Pure Land Buddhist peasants.
Washi Ja !
Anybody else come here to learn more because of Ikémen Sengoku??
0:03 the regions of Iga and Koka look curiously like President Trump. XD
O.o
So, cool video and all, but you never explained what the “ninja myth” is. Like from the video I gather that ninjas just didn’t exist?
Or maybe that ninjas never identified as such??? (
Idk that this matters much. Germany as an identifier existed long before Germany existed as a unified nation-state. Wouldn’t enough people identifying a word with certain activities be enough to define it?
It comes across more like a shinobi is just a person who participated in shinobi activity??? Which sounds more like how I (an uneducated westerner) thought of the term, as the Pre-“modern” Japanese combination of Spy and Navy Seal.
Overall I just don’t really understand why ninja were some kind of myth
Ega....CHU?
When I heard the name jizamurai I thought Jesus samurai for some reason
Not Pikachu... ?
Seriously, dude: Did a ninja stole your girlfriend? Why so much hate?
Great video, thanks, and keep them coming!
Yep, she's still missing o.o
Is there hate though? I didn't mean to.
@@Linfamy No, I only feel "history" from your hard work.
👍
Wait a minute! Ikki... iga... shikah and yiga clan anyone? Any legend of zelda fans out there? Yes? No..? Ok...
😅
Me when i play Aramusha
I read somewhere that ninjas were normal men who were spies
Linfamy: Country Samurai
Me: Cowboy Samurai
"Iga Confederation"
"warriors, not ninja"
"Koga allied with Rokkaku"
Thank you, finally someone bringing mention of all this!
👍
No evidence of a secret society, how odd
Omg im so greatful for Ikemen Sengoku: Otome Game I basically know Nobunaga and Yoshihide(aka Yoshi boy :3)
Ikemen Sengoku is a oerverted game
shoko nakagawa youtube
Washija
I still want to earn a spot with God trying my best
So the samurai were *the sith*
And the Ninja were the *Jedi* ? :^)
How so? 😀
@@Linfamy As far as I read the Ninja usually are more royal compared to samurai; meanwhile samurai are opportunistic.
It's funny, there are different ideas of ninjas in popular culture. One says they are honorable warriors, the other claims they are the opposite, using dishonorable methods to achieve their ends.
@@Linfamy indeed; there's too much information uncertainity/dubiousness.
@steve gale Umm... The emperor?
The Courtesians? The Elite/Royal families?
The first rule of covert ops is never speak of covert ops ; )
True ;)